The #1 mistake on ToneX...(Don't do this!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มี.ค. 2023
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This is the number #1 thing I see people doing wrong with ToneX and the ToneX Pedal!
Very insightful, i love your analysis about the hardware and how to project it on Kemper/ToneX/Helix/whatever. I'd wish more people would think about it this way, your approach is the way, very old school, just simple and logic. Keep it up, love these videos!
Thanks dude!
This is like when people say this fender is muddy, and you look at their tone knobs and they are all at middle. My Super sounds great when treble is at 7 and bass is at 3. I find some people are scared of going too far from middle positions. On a side note please do a dumble pack for the ToneX with and without cabs please!
This is very true, lots of people find it hard to eq with their ears and not their eyes.
That's what happened to me, I thought it was the same as my real amplifiers. I eliminate cabins and use them in the power part. Notice when I equalize it as you say it sounds much better but out of fear we don't do it.
Totally true. I had a huge mental block myself dialing things too far from five in the beginning. Like i was gonna lose something turning bass down to 2. Even if it sounded better.
I always use the EQ to tune a Kemper profile or Tonex capture to my taste. The great thing about the Tonex is that it seems to have a lot more "information" in its bass and highs that I can tune with the EQ. Wish the Tonex had high and low cuts in addition to the existing EQ.
Well done video. Outstanding explanation and demo. Cleared up a lot of questions I had regarding IRs and shaping them on these devices. Thanks
I’m still hopeful to get one of these soon. Seems like the perfect solution to my rig.
I painted my celestion blackbacks green. They sound totally different now!
This is an incredible piece of information! Wow! I just learned quite a bit with this video! Thank you sir for this one! Can't wait to apply this to my modeler which does not have actual mic placement in its built in IR's, and of course, owning a GE7 which i will probably never get rid of, lets me do even more! Keep up the awesome content! On a side note, i would wonder if you have had the chance to play with a lesser expensive piece of gear, say something like the Mooer GE300 or the Valeton GP200, or the Ampero II? These cheaper modelers are definitely something to look at, some have mic placement some dont, but they do sound really good for their price point!
Just got a Tonex based off of your videos , and the way I have been thinking about it is finding a capture that gets you 90% of the way there and then using the EQ controls to take you to 95% and then my pedals to get me the last 5% (90/5/5). Haven't found that messing with EQ "destroys it", but I will say the relationship in comparison to a real amp or a sim isn't quite the same. I mentioned in another comment I have a UA Dream and I still love it, because I view it more as a 75/20/5 relationship which to me means I have more overall control with the EQ. Not to say there aren't great tones in the Tonex, it's just a different workflow and process. Never had a QC or a Kemper before so I am still new to this whole "capture" thing, but you and Jason Sadites have been super helpful.
Also agree, if the Dream has taught me anything, it's that the speaker and mic has an IMMENSE affect on the tone of an amp. You can take a "bright harsh" sounding amp to smooth and mellow just with a speaker and mic change.
PS: Another thing the Dream showed me is how much I actually love a Deluxe Reverb; haven't quite found the right capture for that on Tonex yet 😁. FOR NOW, the Dream still has a place on my board.
I agree with that. the dream 65 is a awesome pedal ...and it take pedals so well! i am also new in the capturing world 😉
It’s like a classic stereo system. When you play a record and turn the eq on the amp you’re not destroying the record itself.
The studio analogy is great. Keep it up Hw!
It's funny to me. A lot of these amplifier companies probably would have put all of these parameters in their amps if budget wasn't an issue. The designers of the amps would most likely encourage you to change your tone any way you want. Tonex just makes it possible. Can't wait to get one
I agree EQ is EQ. That is, it just changes the EQ of the tone that has been produced (at least POST EQ does), but I think maybe people are simply saying the EQ doesn't behave the same as the real amp and thus as EQ is applied to a TONEX model capture, you are simply EQ'ing the model capture tone, and not producing the same effect/tone as the real amp would have at those EQ settings.
In many real amps the EQ is in the MIDDLE between the pre-amp stage and the power amp stage (NOT PRE or POST as in TONEX or even a pedal board that inserts some between guitar and amp or in the fx loop) and the way it interacts with these stages is usually not as linear as a digital EQ like what's in TONEX, especially if the power amp section doesn't have a lot of headroom. Every time you drive a different signature of EQ into the pre-amp or power amp sections you can impact the signature of the clipping. This is different from impacting EQ alone, which is just frequency response. The effect on the power section is likely much less in Higher headroom power amps (a Fryette Power station is a good example of high headroom tube power amp).
Your example of a microphone impacting EQ is a POST EQ effect, and not as relevant to that issue.
This doesn't mean you shouldn't use EQ on TONEX, agreed. You absolutely should and likely need to.
It just means you MAY NOT be producing the tone that the actual amp would have if the EQ knobs were set that way on the real amp.
I guess for some people its an expectation thing? They just have to get used to not expecting it to react the same as the tube amp when EQ is changed. If you want that tone/clipping signature you have to profile it.
Once you have a great tone you've modeled, the EQ is really for just adjusting the overall tonality to fit whatever you are running it through or accommodating a new venue environment.
However, running the EQ in PRE mode also CAN emulate how the amp responds with an EQ pedal in front of the pre-amp and give you a boost/cut in certain frequencies, which WILL impact the clipping signature more like the real amp.
Interesting video. A lot of it makes sense but, aren't amp tone stacks a bit more complex and interactive than a fixed three band eq?
I dig your channel. Lovin the Tonex software. Hope to get a pedal soon! Take care.
Your explanations are true for low to mid gain amps or overdrives. But as soon as you are capturing high-gain gear, the Tone X capture sounds very very different as soon as you turn the knobs. Especially when tweaking gain or treble.
I've been using plugins for a while and coming from using ML Soundlabs and Neural DSP... I always add a post EQ and the shaping you can get out of a single base sound, is spectacular. I also take it studio/ mix approach so I might cut anything below 60-100Hz, anything over 12,500Hz and a cut at 4kHz to get rid of top end harshness and piercing frequencies... It's ready to sit in any mix/ live setup. If people are afraid of Post EQ... they'll be terrified of a Boogie Mark amp. Most recently, the Mark VII.... that is my dream amp and is because of that beautiful post 5 band EQ
I like how I have knobs to control the post amp EQ. Works really well for shaping the sound.
Do you like the ToneX pedal over the Quad Cortex in terms of captures?
Speaking of doing things wrong. I can't seem to get the Tonex to work in the Helix FX Loop and I consider myself an advanced user. I just don't get the full girth of the sound compared to hooking the Tonex directly to the Mixing Board. It might be useful to know that the UA Dream 65 works flawlessly inside the Helix as it's amplifier. I suspect it might have something to do with trim settings or the kind of fx loop used seeing as it isn't stereo in for which I am disappointed. Could you do a video about this?
This channel recently recently started showing up in my feed and I'm digging it. I appreciate the quality content! Great video!
The only problem I had with the Tonex pedal, was that it came with global setting ‘operation’ set to ‘live’. I had no idea what to do. My DAW ‘Reaper’ would not talk to the audio interface. Maybe this is obvious to some. I contacted support and they told to change it to ‘interface’. Everything works fine now.
Just got one like a week ago, haven’t changed a thing on any of the captures yet, did mess with one to see how it would change the sound. Have yet to see how it reacts to turning the gain down on a capture, but I’ve been pretty happy with a few I’ve had time to sit down with. Definitely going to get around to capturing my amp with the tonex and headrush prime. Winner gets to stay in my life and the the loser gets shelved or sold. Possibly just keeping all of them since my helix could use some captures, especially the driftwood I came across on tonenet. Sounded awesome!
Thanks for another good video. I just ordered my TONEX Pedal yesterday and your videos will shorten my learning curve. Just a comment for you: That VOX AC30 tone you use is, even to my old ears, extremely harsh ... at least when you are pushing into distortion. Not what I would want to hear in a live set. When I start using my TONEX Pedal, I will really want to constrain my sound to what would be coming off of a guitar speaker ... something not much more than 7K hz.
people are mistaking EQ for tone stacks.
a JTM vs JMP tone stack with different component choices will act differently from one another. eq on a device isn't a tone stack emulation, it is purely filters
Dude just taught a whole college course. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Great job
Recently purchased the Tonex Pedal I did all the proper things register the pedal, and downloaded the Tonex & Amplitude app got it registered. Then I tried to download an amp profile so I can use it on my Tonex Pedal and I wasn't able to it gave me no access. It also kept saying to make sure I have a verified account. Which is what I did at the very beginning. This has been very frustrating.
Is there a tutorial on youtube or pdf file with instructions?
Were you able to solve your problem?
Nice Video, Surprised you did not mess with the actual Speaker cabinet mike placements, since you were showing that.
for some reason I cannot get amplitude 5.7.5 to change any sounds, I have the tonex pedal and S/W
Yeah, it's funny how some players don't understand recorded tones. Even live tones, I've heard so many players saying they're suprised how their amp sounds different at gig level volumes at a club than it does at lower volumes in a carpeted studio. 🙄
This is like being headstrong about just guitar and amp only, no pedals, the amp has to get the sound or else. I admit that I want my amps to be that way, but I can't deny that nearly every amp sounds better with a boost pedal. Oh and REVERB!!!!
Excellent amp overview here. Thank you. 🤘🎶
Not only did IK Multimedia encourage altering captures by including knobs with lots of functionality to change tone, gain and speaker cabinets, they built in CC codes to make altering many parameters even easier by going hands free with a MIDI foot controller.
Thank you!! This is a great pro tip!
Glad it was helpful!
I loved the amp mic'ing tutorial.
Love your ToneX captures!!!
FYI a shelf is not the same thing as a pass filter. A pass/cut filter can only cut... (although some have a Q so you can bump a resonant cutoff point) whereas a shelf can boost or Cut. I imagine a shelf is the correct one here... and one Fender amps.
HW, keeping the tone world honest and killing the myths of capture eq
Just doing my part! 😂
Been trying to explain this to some for a While. 🙏🏼
Buying one.
This is the most Legit thing ive seen... Also, when you are recording and the guitarist is testing the guitar, then you find the mic position you like (coming out into your Daw) but then just before recoridng the guitarrist plays around a bit with the EQ on the Amp.... just changed your mic sound hahahaha
hi... the videos are great thanks a lot.. i'm wondering about something, is there a snapshot like (hx stomp) in tonex...
I see the same reactions when people say they run the Tonex pedal through another amp. I sometimes use it through the clean channel of my tube amp. They say: but that will change the amp capture! Even if it did, what does it matter? as long as it sounds good. People box themselves in too much.
Question I have the tonex pedal coming tomorrow. Is there any setting I need to change within it if I decide to run it through the clean channel on the amp?
Not really..maybe turn cab simulation if you are running through a regular cabinet. If you are using an FRFR then you can leave cab sim on
Off*
The more I hear and read conversations surrounding new guitar products in particular, the more I realize how pretentious and downright ignorant so many of these forum dwellers are. It’s like they’ve never actually recorded a real amp or worked on an actual song where everything, including their oh so precious tone, needs to fit in context with other instruments their life.
You’re the best man! Good explanation!
You don't really need the EQ on the amp. The GE-7 can do so incredibly much, including boosting the input of the amp. The GE-7 between my guitar and amp is the most effective tool to tailor an existing amp sound to my needs. I wouldn't need to change anything in the Tone X if I have an existing capture that I like. As you said: The profile does the heavy lifting. But if you have a great profile you don't need much to really get everything you want out of it. At least for me an EQ like the GE-7 would suffice.
Well, either it sounds good or not. That’s all that should matter, whether it means tweaking the EQ or not.
Awesome content!!
How about importing the presets into the ToneX pedal? - They sound way different than the VSTs, I just spend a significant amount of time trying out captures, most of them sounded good, until... My other guitar player said that it sounded muffled... He lend me his Palladium Pedal and oh crap! its night day difference, tried over 100 captures on the Tonex pedal and none were near the Palladium pedal, wtf?? Hope I'm doing something wrong, but already double check the manual and cabling, all seems good... I should have listen to Ola when he said the pedal was lacking of something.
There is a bunch of paid clowns by the competition that are arguing stupid things.
I think this depends on the technology in play, and you may be conflating all things that are called EQ as if they are all similar... they are not. If the ToneX EQ is just like an EQ pedal in the effects loop, then fine ...but if it is an attempt at simulating the amp's knobs (and potentially doing it badly) then maybe you should leave it alone and throw an EQ pedal in the mix.
I think all this comes from things like NAM and similar machine learning capture systems having wonky EQs that don't necessarily do the thing we all mean when we talk about EQ.
In other words, you can label a knob whatever you want... but if it sounds wonky when you turn it... perhaps not using is the right thing to do (and vice versa).
You were right in another video when you said “people don’t know what they want”.
May not be the right place, but i find that most of us want turn key products ... connect them, turn them on, select a preset and go ..i am guilty, hate to tweak...
Truly legend! Thanks bro!
Maybe your peeps are wondering about if this is nondestructive editing on the tonex
That eq in the app is weak, not like a good parametric eq at all.
Agreed, odd that ToneX doesn't have high and low pass filters though in the EQ section - seems like a glaring omission to me given those are so heavily used in guitar tracking at the board in a studio.
That’s what the treble and bass controls are.
@@ToneJunkieTV I guess I think of it a little differently as it also has the shelf option there, not just the "pass" having both would allow the low/high cut plus the option to boost/cut some where in the range beyond simply the mid freq. The implemention isn't that limiting but since these are "advanced" section but also tied to the basic Amp UI that all seems a little odd to me. That said, the #1 mistake users might be making is not downloading your packs.... 😇 I tend to tell users not to think of the AMP eq in Tonex the same as the real world amp EQ - as you have noted it is more of a EQ in post scenario.
@@ToneJunkieTV It seems like there are varying degrees of effectiveness from capture to capture....idk.
@@brianwalton2602 Ahh I see what your saying, yeah that’s true something like the QC gives you both and it is very useful. Thanks for watching dude!
Where’s the time stamp where he gets to the point?
In one breath you say you can't make it sound like a different amp through EQ, and in the next breath, you talk about how you use the mic placement to make a Princeton sound like a Marshall. It's either one or the other, not both.
I think the things that really differentiates the sound of two different amps is frequency response to input signal and clipping signature in response to input signal at specific volume. The first one can be somewhat closely emulated with eq, the second not so much.
Listen to zep 1, it’s a tele and Princeton but people thought it must be a Marshall, but you can hear it’s not. If you listen to other zep recordings but the point was it sounded big and rock in. Would it have passed as a Marshall with an a/b test against a Plexi… no of course not, but you can make a Princeton rock and sound big… doesn’t make it a Marshall.
Thanks for watching!
My point is that you can’t just turn a the bass up and make it sound like anything other than
17:26 says you.
Dude! At 12:00 you totally converted that Vox into a Marshall! I can hear the EL34’s roaring, you got the 4x12 with greenbacks there. If I have to guess, you’re mic’ing the upper left speaker of the slanted cab, right?
Shouldn’t have to do all of this
Should sound great from the box
And it sounds like hot garbage
Your terminology is not correct. High “pass” filter and low “pass” filter are referring to strictly subtrative EQ where you are carving frequency out from the low end (high pass) or from the high end (low pass). A “shelf” can be additive or subtractive depending if you are cutting or boosting but it is focusing on everything above or below a specific frequency. A “bell” EQ is also additive and subtractive, but is focusing on a specific center frequency. Guitar amps are technically using subtractive bell EQ, not “shelf” or “pass” EQ.
sound police in the building
I just bought a Tonex and I wish I hadn’t. The last owner registered it and despite only charging 20 euros to transfer the licence, I still need to buy the software at £250.00. Total rip off. Don’t ever buy one if you might want to sell it one day.
i'm so glad i read this. Thanks
Buy new and it comes with the TONEX Max software
The previous owner has to surrender their licenses and then they will get a bunch of codes to send you so you can register the licenses. Got mine used for 275 along with all the licenses for software etc.
The more I watch about ToneX the less I want to have it.