I would love for you guys to show the Ercoupe in a more positive light. Not that you were hard on the poor little thing. But it was kinda like picking or poor little "Herbie the Love Bug" guys. I am a now disabled Veteran who learned to fly in an Ercoupe in 2007 while stationed at Ft. Wainwright in Fairbanks Alaska. Man I loved that little plane. If you get one of the earlier models you can drop the windows and cruise around in your little convertible "Bug". I would love to come and show you guys how this thing can really fly. But this time, get a C, C/D or E model. They have the slide down windows, which keeps you much, much cooler. I also became an A&P after years of working on all of the Army's helicopters. But, the Ercoupe was still more fun. The safety features designed into this airplane were astounding for the day (there are far too many to mention, so I won't list too many). It was the very first certified airplane in history to have "tricycle" landing gear, in fact that name was given by the Ercoupe designer Fred Weick. He later worked for Piper and had a hand in a little known line of aircraft called the Cherokee. No matter, the stall is prevented by limiting the up elevator travel. If the airplane cannot reach a pitch attitude at which a stall occurs, well, then, theoretically, it won't really stall. Try it again, on approach, stay at 500 feet agl., about 1/4 mile off the end of the runway on approach, carb heat, retard the power fully, pull full aft elevator and hang on because it will sink like a rock. Then either release back pressure or blip the power when near the ground, and viola! A beautiful landing, but it will scare the crap out of you so ya might wanna check your shorts!. Next, the pitch of the aircraft when properly maintained, while on the ground is a negative pitch (angle of incidence) which is about 3 degrees to the negative. Try it, land at 90 knots indicated, release the back pressure and it will stayed glued to the runway. Lastly, but not, the rudders do not move inboard as such, they each and separately move outboard during the process of turning. The H-Tail configuration allows the propeller slip stream to have no affect on the vertical stabilizers. Pretty cool right? I'll bet I could make any grown man or woman cry, suck their thumb and wan't mommy by demonstrating the airplane in a true crosswind scenario with no rudder pedals and a 15 knot direct crosswind. The expression given by the hard core "ruddies" would be epic and probably Emmy material. The reason for its outstanding crosswind is a secret, but not really, its in the landing gear design. I could go on and on about this gem of an airplane. If'n y'all wanna know more, contact me and I can put you in touch with a lot more information. Not much, I mean the POH is like 3 pages with only one being truly relevant. Right?! Tony
I’m 76 years old. My DAD had one when I was young enough to sit on my Brothers lap. He would take us flying out of Wayne Major airport in Romulus Michigan. He bought the plane in pieces and brought the wings home to aluminize them. I guess the weight factor was not a problem back then. He liked to go up North fishing with another flying buddy, land in farm fields and camp out. Fought under Geo. Patten and would scuba dive under the ice. A real man’s man as they say. May he rest in peace.
Just watched the videos now for the first time. My father (now deceased) approached me 45 years ago asking that if he bought an ERcoupe and paid for me to get my private pilots license, could we go flying together. Gee dad. Let me think about it (for a micro second). He was close to 50 at that point in his life and unfortunaley, he could no longer hold an MOT (Ministry of Transport) flight medical. He had flown J3s for his flight training in his youth in the mid to late 40s. The aircraft he wanted to buy had been owned by a freind of his who had recently succumbed to Cancer. He bought the plane. I did my training, soloed in 35hrs, did my check ride at 65hrs and had my tie cut that day. My dad and I enjoyed many hours of flying the circuit and short cross countreis at/from and to our local airport (YBW). The Ercoupe is the ultimate example of "flying all day under the shade of the same tree". It is very tame but as has been pointed out, the cross wind landing of this aircraft is more than different. YBW has north/south and east/west runways but seldom do the winds follow the compass and at an altitude of 3940', Density Altitude is always a factor. Because of the winds, cross wind landing are the norm. Absent of any isolated rudder control you do crab the aircraft right down to the pavement. That's where the real fun begins however. As soon as the mains hit the aircraft will rapidly (some think violently) stop the crab and at that piont, the nose has to be down because your control is now "ONLY" by way of the steerable nose wheel. So you have to be ready to "LET" the plane GRAB the yoke and correct itself from the crab wing level position to the having to steer it straight down the runway mode. This takes a lot of getting used to and does scare the Hotel Echo Lima Lima out of a bucket load of folks. Besides that, I flew C-FIIT for many years and hundreds of hours. I got to spend many of those with my dad and gained great reward from watching him continuing enjoy his life long passion even if only from the right seat. The ERcoupe is very unique and in my mind, a great plane for someone who just wants to go flying. It is ultra-simplistic. You won't go anywhere quickly but in this plane, the journey is the reward. Hope this helps. Cheers!
When I was a young lad and had just got my A&P license I was working at a FBO at Chino airport and the shop was rebuilding a ercoupe that had an engine failure on departure out of Cable airport and got heavy damage. When the repairs were done it had to be flown before returning it to the owner and I was elected to do it as I was the only one in the shop with a pilot license except the manager who didn’t want to do it. When I was done with checking out all the flight parameters it was time to return for landing. There a a crosswind and the first two attempts I noticed as I flared I was in a crab which means I was a little sideways on the landing and went around. The manager was watching me and had a handheld and told me to just don’t hold it off and just drive onto the ground even if you are not aligned with the runway. When learning to fly an airplane with rudder pedals you are taught to always aligned the longitudinal axis of the airplane prior to touchdown . They built the landing gear on the ercoupe to take the side load and the mains are trailing link so it was a non event when you just plunked it on the ground and it would straighten right out. To this day when I see an ercoupe or someone brings one up I flash back to that day 46 years ago. It was a fun little airplane.
That's very true Shane. That undercarriage is very robust and found its way onto Mooney aircraft back when Mooney bought out Ercoupe. Something to be said about that.
Also, if you look at the nose gear when it is unloaded, you will see that the nose gear extends so that the tire is below the mains (not sure I explained that right). On landing, that is supposed to make ground contact earlier than a "normal" tri-gear airplane like, say, a Cherokee. Some owners decide that's wrong, and the use a steel cable to hold the nose wheel up, but the result is less control at touchdown. Fred Weick know what he was doing. Yes, it flys a little differently than your Cherokee or 150, but if you fly it as intended it's really a great crosswind airplane. I watched a video once on TH-cam of a fly-in somewhere out west, and they had a wicked crosswind. Every airplane made really hairy landings, but then came an Ercoupe (Original spelling, by the way. Fred Weick's company was Engineer Research Corporation.), and other than a little jerk where the airplane aligned itself with the runway, which it was supposed to do, it was a perfect landing. The deal with the tall nose gear was to let the gear align itself with the direction of travel over the ground, regardless of yaw, then the rest of the airplane will follow. B-52 pilots would probably feel right at home.
Great video! Dangerous for a pilot to fly that knows nothing about an Ercoupe. I restored one from a basket case and learned to really love flying it. 85 hp 1946. I took a flight instructor up in an over 30 mph crosswind because he wanted me to show him how it could takeoff and land safely. It freaked him out landing sideways. A pilot really needs to know how to handle the Ercoupe.
I used to own this very plane and loved every minute of flying it. Fred’s design was spot on and this airplane doesn’t need rudder pedals. In fact, it’s MuCH better without them. Because the rudders are very ineffective. Plus, I’m a tall pilot and loved the leg room!
Having time in coupes with and without rudder pedals, the Alon version of the rudder pedals would be my preferred option, followed by no pedals, and my least favorite is the rudder pedals from the prior manufacturers.
Ercoupe rudders work a lot differently than the rudder on a conventional plane. these folks haven't got a clue about Ercoupes. OMG what a clown show. @@vincentmolloy5660
Interesting video of an equally interesting plane. Note to student pilots: If you aren't sure if your airspeed indicator is accurate, go to a safe altitude and ease it into a stall in clean and dirty configurations. Better to find out for sure at 5000 ft. than on the turn from base to final.
FYI, the nickname "Scare" Coupe does not refer to rudderless pedals. It was the fabric covered wings model of the Aircoupe. It utilized "PK Screws" to attach the fabric to the ribs. When airborne the low pressure on top of the wings created a look the resembled a upholstered couch as you could see every button of those screws. That was the part that was scary. Most of them now are traditional recovered or metalized wings.
That is one purrrrdy little aircraft ...have always thought they were really easy on the eye compared to other contemporary small aircraft. Most enjoyable video - thanks..! : )
I soloed in a J3 cub in Honolulu and bought a 415C Ercoupe in 78. Thanks, I was able to relive the experience (trauma) of your self check out. Once ya get use to it the extra speed (compared to a J3) fuel burn and purchase cost (3k in 78) made it a great first airplane. Did I mentioned its kind of a chick magnet.. I was able to visit all the islands and always had company.
What a great video! I flew one of these in the late 70s. It's an extremely lightweight aircraft; the closest similar flying experience for me is a three-channel RC airplane (throttle/rudder/elevator) because it bounces around in the slightest breeze and it feels like you never have complete control. Despite Its full-size-model-plane vibe...it's a real joy to fly. I think that's due to the toy-like feel.
My flying club has an Erco 415-C with an 85hp Continental and a rudder pedal conversion. It took me about 20 hours after my checkout to feel really comfortable in it. I found that I needed a LOT of rudder input because it didn’t have a lot of rudder authority. I also learned (the hard way) that the climb gradient is unnervingly flat and that the airplane has the glide characteristics of a crowbar; pull the throttle back, and it comes down RIGHT NOW. Through trial and error (mostly error!) I worked out that this particular airplane (I don’t know if all Ercoupes behave this way) prefers 80mph with power throughout the pattern: 2200 rpm on downwind, 2000 rpm on base leg, 1800 rpm on final, all at 80mph, and it’s very well behaved, anything other than that and it comes out of the sky like a grand piano. For an O-200, I'd recommend lowering those power settings by about 200 rpm, but do what works for you... Throttle back to idle as you flare, and it practically lands itself. Crosswind landings are a piece of cake; hold a crab all the way down final and touch down in the crab; the trailing-link gear takes care of the rest. I probably would have called it the Scarecoupe, too, if I’d thought of the name, but once you figure out how it’s different from other airplanes, it’s a lot of fun to fly.
FAVORITE COMMENT SO FAR! Haha! But seriously, really cool of you to share your initial experience and how you worked it out with the specific power settings. Appreciate you watching and commenting!
Be proud! You've finally performed and experienced an "Ercoupe Landing." I think that the actual sales point was not that it wouldn't stall .... it was that it wouldn't SPIN. (Because you can't cross the controls.) But ... I'm sure someone managed to do it somewhere....somehow. I would not volunteer for that event.
Ha! Indeed. We are proud! The Aircoupe was fun, despite the discomfort. And yes, as you pointed out the claim is that it was "spin resistant" but what we question is this: how can you be spin resistant if you're not stall resistant as well? Is a stalled wing not required for a spin? I guess our point is that it could be easy to confuse the two. In any case, we don't want to volunteer for either event as well!
Snowmobiler here. My main ride is big bore and very fast. Sets the skis back on the snow at 55 m.p.h. This coupe is like me riding my grandson,s Bravo 250 Yamaha. So light..so quirky.. you love it. Makes me giggle every time i flick that little snow machine around in a ditch!. Looks like a blast.! Hyabusa riders can still enjoy a moped!
Great video. I owned a 1947 Ercoupe N3968H for 10 years flying out of Fullerton & Chino (1999 to 2009) and am flying formation in RV's these days (West Coast Ravens & Dawn Patrol). I've landed at Williams Gateway Airport in an honest to gosh tower called 30 knot direct cross wind (I was following friends in RV's). It was 'exciting', but it has been done. Keeping it to 20 knot max cross wind component is probably a smarter idea. Yes they feel weird landing and taking off to the tail wheel guys, but bottom line is IT WORKS GREAT!!! There is a video of multiple aircraft including me landing the Coupe at Flabob when the Santa Anna's were gusting to 20+ knots taken by a guy who fly's a Bellanca - it is entertaining to watch the Ercoupe land where others struggled! I flew it to OSH and back along I-80 over the Sierra's to Elko, and then to Rock Springs via SLC. Also flew it to Arlington and back, and Sequim and back several times. Great little airplanes as long as you don't need to carry too much or go fast. Just enjoy the heck out of flying them with the canopy open and have a great day!
Thank you for watching and for sharing this story! I think we may have seen you buzzing by Flabob in an RV formation this past Saturday? I (Jeff) was out there over the weekend with EAA. In any case, that's really something with the crosswinds - the couple is a robust little bird and as many have pointed out, it's still going after all these years. I've been personally fascinated with them since I was a kid. See you around!
@@airspeedaltitude Hi Jeff, Yes, I was in the flight of RV's Saturday morning. I was flying # 4 in the slot in the yellow and blue RV-9A. We rehearse a 4 to 7 ship air show routine most Saturdays over Lake Mathews then debrief over breakfast at Corona, Flabob, or Hemet.
My coupe had rudder peddles... it just had no real rudder authority. Great little ship. Wish I still had it. I bought the airplane as an alternative to renting a school ship for flight training. Not knowing at the time how unique it was and licensed in it... you were rated for it only. I flew the wings off of it. All of his observations were accurate. Although for me having zero time there were no issues having nothing to compare it to. 50 years after the fact, I was the target customer for the concept. Steer it like a car, forgiving flight characteristics, great visibility added up to be a lot of fun for me. Landing just let her yaw into the wind. Paint her on, chop the throttle and steer down the runway. I had difficulty when I bought my Cherokee which had rudder authority. That was a whole new box of cornflakes to learn!
This is such a great comment! Thank you for sharing your experience and insight! This adds so much to the 'coupe conversation here at A&A. You're not alone in mentioning that the coupes with rudder kits didn't have much authority. Also interesting that when you transitioned into the Cherokee, you mentioned some difficulty getting used to it. Makes sense if you came from having so much time in the coupe and had not experienced other airplanes. Thank you so much for watching and for engaging with us!
Hey Daniel and Jeff, Great production and I like the perspective you guys offer all while having a lot of fun doing it. Look forward to more. Cheers' N6121A 👍
My Grandpa had a 46 Ercoupe that he flew for many many years. Unfortunately my 6'2" frame wouldn't fit without being firmly pressed into the dash. It was a beautiful airplane. Fully polished. Sadly he sold it when his health began to fail. We lost him this last summer.
had one for awhile...fun to take people flying for sure. Because the main gear actually casters a little, you land the airplane with what crab you need to keep it centered on the runway....
Yup! That's what we've learned, no small thanks to many other folks like you who have shared their experience. It's such a cool airplane and we actually had a blast flying it and putting these videos together. Thanks for watching!
Don't fight the wind on landing. It is made to land in a crab as it has trailing link gear. The second you touch down it will align with the runway. It will land fine with nose way off runway heading. So there is no crosswind when you crab into the wind until you touchdown and it goes straight.
Indeed, but easier said than done, LOL! At least it was for some of us. It just feels foreign at first, but you are ultimately right, and this fact is pointed out in STICK & RUDDER. We do address that a bit in the 3rd upcoming episode. Thank you for watching and for commenting!
Thank you! Definitely feels weird at first, but we're sure that given time, it's something anyone can get used to. It's a unique airplane! Thanks for watching!
I've got plenty of time in a 150, 152 aTri-Pacer a cub, Citabria,a champ and Ercoupes. After a few minutes in the air just because the way the various airplanes are rigged you just sort of know what to do. The airplane tells you how it wants to be handled if you know how to listen. Ercoupes are a pure blast to fly with top down on a beautiful day they are flying like you dreamed of as a kid. I've got to try Pacer right now but if I could afford two airplanes you better believe the other airplane would be an Ercoupe
I owned a 66 Alon. Mine did have rudder pedals. I actually met the designer Fred Weick a Aviation legend. Was fun flying with the canopy open. I had a full instrument panel including a wing leveler. Airplane will straighten right out landing in a full crab.
Decades ago I knew two brothers who had a 1966 Alon 'Coupe. IIRC, it had rudder pedals added to it. They took me for a couple of rides in it. IT WAS REALLY FUN!
Mine has the fuel injected 0-200 with the rudder pedal mod installed. Makes a big difference in rough weather and on the flare but it still all goes out the widow when the front wheel touches down🤣. Driving with the yoke is hilarious. Nice video. Great little planes
We brought one of these to perfect condition at the aircraft mechanics school I attended in 1968. It took us awhile to complete all that was needed. Parked it out on the apron and lightning hit it and it caught fire and was a complete loss. Never got to fly it!!!!! I almost bought a coordinated control Piper Tri Pacer back in the day that would fly but had to be recovered before it could be legal. Didn't have the time or a place to do that so I let it go on by. It actually had rudder pedals if I remember correctly, but the yoke would also control the rudder.
@@airspeedaltitude It wasn't my plane. We just did some major repairs to it. Lots of blood sweat and tears only to see it destroyed. Cool little plane. Sixties, we put roll and tuck and shag carpet in it too. 😝
Awesome video! An Ercoupe with 100hp is definitely different than the original. I owned the last 1950 415G produced and it was also converted to 100hp. I never remember hearing it was built to not stall, but rather not spin. During the stall, you do have full aileron control though which may be part of the confusion. The split elevator that you flew also handles different than the original elevator. I have landed an Ercoupe in crosswinds that I would probably not attempt in a traditional airplane like a Cessna 150. It was a great airplane to build time in. If you get the chance, definitely put some more hours in it and you will get to appreciate its weirdness. With the 100hp and split elevator, try a short field landing with power and monitor vertical speed like a glassy water landing in a float plane. It’s amazing. I landed (and took off) in my friends 1200ft hay field. I look forward to the next videos!
Thank you so much for watching and for sharing your insight. We were aware that it was touted as "spin proof" yet the general consensus among pilots (non-coupe pilots) is that is has a reputation for being stall proof (which no airplane is). Good call out on the split elevator. I also wonder if part of the confusion is that if the airplane is "spin proof" do people just assume it's stall proof because in order to spin, one wing must stall to a greater degree than the other? In any case, comments like these are creating great discussion. We look forward to having you watch our next video!
Awesome video Daniel! Production value, editing, content, this is really great stuff. I’d love to see a lot more from you guys. Especially on the tailwheel, vintage, formation, etc stuff. Do a deep dive to convince me to buy a Cessna 180, please. 😁👍
I got my tailwheel endorsement in a Taylorcraft. It needed about a 2000 ft runway to land on because when you get down to 2' off the runway it floats for another 1500' it seems. (maybe a little exaggeration here). Tailwheel planes are a riot to fly.
I have flight time in the Alon A-2 Ercoupe, N5475E, N6571Q and N6573Q. All flew very well back in 1968-1969 when I was in North Carolina, Jacksonville with the Marine Corps at NCAF New River. I checked my logbook and see that I have a total of about 50 hours in the little planes. I really enjoyed that plane and it could land on almost a dime. If my memory serves me correctly the power off stall speed was 52 MPH and power on stall speed was 47MPH. No flaps, little rudder authority but a nice flying little machine especially for one person. The owners of one of the little planes was selling it to a farmer. I was asked to fly the plane into their extremely sort grass strip. The day I was to fly it I had to fly over the little strip and see if I had enough room to land. The runway wasn't more than 50 foot wide grass and gravel just beyond a 4 foot barbed wire fence. I know it would be close so I flew it at 55MPH until just before the fence, slowed it down to 50 just at the fence and with 3 feet from the ground chopped the throttle. If fell like a rock, stalled. I was on the brakes before it touched the ground. It was an extremely short landing. The buyers were impressed and bought the plane. I flew it out of that little spot just missing the fence on the way out and parked it at the JACKSONVILLE AIR SERVICE (W88) ramp. The plane never went into that runway again. The new owners could not get the plane into that tight spot. They parked it at the new airport (at the time) near Jacksonville. As I say, before I listen to this video, this was a great little airplane that gave me hours and hours of pleasure flying back in 1968-1969.
When my Dad was a live and owned a flight service a long beach airport (Pardew's flying service ) we had one white and red, I was 13 and flying PA 12's and Tcrafts , but when dad was showing me how to fly the Erocoupe , I got use to no rudder peddles , and after that it was fun to fly . After a week or so we completely restored this plane all new skin, rebuilt engine ( 110) and rudder controls toe brakes . then it was real nice to fly !!
@@airspeedaltitude Aircoup is a very sturdy airplane. 1975 I almost bought one from a TWA pilot, his logs showed one major repair, a previous owner knocked 4 feet off the top of a telephone pole in fog with the landing gear. Able to land, it was repaired and recertification. I could have bought it then for $2500.00, and waited too long.
They're definitely an intriguing little airplane. We love them, actually, despite how some viewers are misunderstanding our reactions. And that's all they are... reactions. Opinions. It can be tricky to transition into one of these things if you're used to having rudder pedals, but like anything - with practice - you can overcome it. Definitely recommend trying one out one day - it's somethin'!
Actually, you don't really need to "steer" the nose down the runway in a X-wind landing. As I recall (from a long, long time ago...an Ercoupe was my very first airplane) the over-simplified aircraft operating manual said something like this: establish the correct crab on final to zero out lateral drift, land the 'Coupe in the crab and trust the gear to track you straight down the runway. I also recall (from a long, long time ago) that a strong crosswind would lift the upwind wing and the "natural" reaction of throwing the yoke over to lower that wing would turn the nosewheel and you'd end up steering yourself into a ground loop. Fun airplane for sure.
I am not a pilot... YET I find this video amazing. You are flying the safest airplane ever made for decades, and are nervous. Now would you be as nervous in a vee tailed #35 doctor killer, I would guess probobly not, because of rudder peddles. Thank you for proving if Richy and the bopper were in an Ercoup they would still be singing.
Ha! Yeah... we'll have to do a V-tail episode some day. I (Jeff) have not flown one yet. Flying is something that should always be a "gut check" no matter what machine you're flying. We take it very seriously but we also have fun along the way. For a non-pilot you seem to have some aviation knowledge. What are you waiting for!? Haha. Thanks for watching!
The Bonanza is the General Aviation Piston Single that All Others are Judged against. To label it as a doctor killer discounts the fact the type has flown countless millions of hours in perfect safety, many countless millions of miles in Actual, by pilots with less experience than many who killed themselves in the same airplane.
@@Triple_J.1 can we just agree to disagree? How much is a new one...what do you mean they quit making them....not the one by which all others a judged....36,s do not coach as often..why is that?
I bought an ercoupe, then took lessons, they have trailing wheel mains designed just for crosswind landings. Took my flight test to get my license in a 235 piper with little training so I would not be resricted to ercoupe. Flew the coupe for many years, wish I still had it, but graduated to a piper arrow could not afford two airplanes at same time
The Alon version of the coupe is a very nice little airplane. With the C90 engine and a prop halfway between standard and cruise pitch, 115 mph was a leisurely pace for cross country flying, and if needed, 127 mph could be achieved. My first 100 hours of ownership cost less than $50 per hour, including fuel, insurance, hangar rent, and maintenance in 2017. Still wish I hadn't sold it.
Thank you for watching and for leaving a comment. This is the sense we get from most people who talk about coupes. They are truly a unique and formidable airplane. And who doesn't love $50/hr?
Have some pre license time in one. I was told “ if you can drive a car you can fly an Ercoupe” so I did! Was a lot less work than my ‘46 Willy’s Jeep!!
I'm going to buy one for time building. It's a unique aircraft. I rent a Comanche 260 for IFR time. So that's not a problem. Apparently, the Ercoupe was used to help train airline pilots to approach with a crab. When jets came along, they were worried the pilots would hit the longer wings on landing without extra training. I guess the common idea was to just side slip the final.
Definitely unique! And definitely affordable as a time-builder. Interesting perspective re: airline pilot training. It makes sense because you have to pretty much commit to the crab. Another cool historical thing on Ercoupes was that they were used by Jack Parsons (founder of JPL) to develop jet-assisted take-off units. If you want a chuckle, check this out: th-cam.com/video/2w0mKobISt4/w-d-xo.html
It wasn’t the 707 wingtip they were worried about, it was the low hanging engine pods. They were afraid the engines would get dragged on a steep slip, hence the crab training.
I learned to fly and got my private in N5682F, i think it was a 1966 model Alon A2. It was a 3-control plane. $11/hr tach time, wet. This was back in 1970. Fun, fun airplane!
That's great! We love hearing these stories. And wow.... $11/hr tach time, wet - hard to fathom that now! Thanks for watching and for leaving a comment!
My Dad owned an ercoupe and we flew over Disneyland when I was 4 yrs. old in it in 1958 . I got to fly one when I was in the Civil Air Patrol . Great little airplane , fun , simple , economical , kinda like a Volkswagen with wings , wish I had one today . Thanks for the memories ! 😎👍
That's great! And you are welcome for the memories. So wonderful that you got to fly the coupe to Disneyland. Kind of feels like a Disney story all on its own. Thank you for watching and for leaving a comment!
I would like to build a “Twin Coupe” replica. The original aerobatic TC was a real attention getter. We always tried to ‘loop the coupe,’ but failed miserably. Three degrees above the horizon let us know that the loop was doomed at the beginning. Love ‘em.
Hilarious little rig!!! I love the fact that this thing has a full panel complete with an ILS. I can't imagine landing this thing at minimums. Bawahaha! not that the rudders have anything to do with it.
i have owned 5 Alons but all had factory 3 axis controls. Standard with a C-90 they are the best kept secret in general aviation.Safe ,fast efficient and FUN! Fly with the canopy open.My wife earned her PPl in 30 days on it. When I stop flying my Pitts,Eagle,RV6,Sopwith Camel ,i will keep the Alon and fly into the sunset.
The Coupe is VERY hard to land in cross winds greater than 15knots. The wing has just enough dihedral to create a lift factor for the cross wind once down and this causes the wing to lift. But if you put in the control to keep the wing down, you turn the plane too. NOT a good situation. In calm weather though, this is a wonderful plane to fly.
Yeah, that pretty much sums up our experience, though we would also note our lack of time in the airplane. Given time, we are certain anyone can become more proficient in x-wind landings in the coupe. And in all fairness, a calm day might have yielded different responses. All in all, though, the experience was fun and it taught us a great deal. Thank you for watching and for commenting!
@@airspeedaltitude If you want to see something AMAZING and also Intimidating, look up the girl with NO ARMS who flies that plane like a pro. You won't believe it.
I restored a 1946 415c Ercoupe back to almost completion before selling it. It had a C85 with a gas STC and rudder pedals. I have never seen one with an 0200 in it?
They are designed not to spin due to the aileron rudder interconnect. "they are not suppose to stall" is incorrect. All airplanes can stall when they get slow enough.
Well said! And we are, in fact, aware. NO airplane is stall proof. Personally we wouldn't trust that this airplane is 100% spin proof either. Anyway, thanks for watching and for leaving a comment!
I had a '46 model and used it to build hours and take my check ride. At 6'4" it was pretty cramped for me. Sure was fun to fly with the windows open and arm on the sill like driving a car. I called it my Little B 12 1/2
Back in 1979-80 I used to fly N87420 out of Detroit City Airport (DET). It also was "rudderless" (even though that is a misnomer) and was a great little plane to fly.
Yeah, we are curious to fly one with the "rudder kit." It's definitely a fun little toy. Despite our jokes, we really do love this airplane. Thanks for watching!
It's a great little airplane, no doubt. Our reactions (speaking for myself at least) have much more to do with the unique flight characteristics making us feel like a fish out of water rather than any inherent design flaws. Thanks for watching!
@@airspeedaltitude I would have the same reaction. I have a lot of tailwheel time and also a couple of thousand hours in my Bonanza. It would be a hard adjustment but I have always liked the look of the Ercoupe. Figure that may be my old mans plane.
@@airspeedaltitude All of the Alons were from 1965 to 1967. All came with rudder pedals from the factory unless you ordered one with special instructions to delete them.
Didn’t the original Wright Flyer have a similar arrangement? It applied rudder against the adverse yaw from wing warping, far worse than with ailerons. That plane would scare me to death.
We're not engineers, but as you hinted, the Wright Flyer did utilize wing warping. The coupes, on the other hand, still have ailerons and rudder(s) but the difference (compared to other airplanes) is that they are interconnected and thus controlled, solely, by the yoke. Thank you for leaving a comment!
never flown a Coupe, but what i've heard they were designed to be landed crabbed, and the tricycle gear will straighten out on touchdown (?).. would like to give it a try someday...
If you have the chance, definitely give it a try! And you are correct, the gear is supposed to take a crabbed landing like you described. The trick (for us anyway) was getting over that mental hurdle because, of course, most of us learned to NOT land that way. Other than a few quirks, there's NOTHING wrong with coupes - great little airplane!
Rudderless controls have little to do with making a stall-proof aircraft. The fact the elevator power is limited by size and control throw is what prevents the aircraft wing from being trimmed to the stall Angle of Attack. Taking this concept to heart, any pilot with a pulse can learn to limit their aft-stick control throw, thereby eliminating stalls in every make and model aircraft that exists. There was a lot of talk in the 1930s of stall-proof design concepts and none are too too difficult to implement. What is hard is making a 4+ seat aircraft with limited elevator power, because when loaded at forward CG it might not have the authority to lift the nose gear to flare. And when loaded aft, it could have enough tail power to stall. Therefore the passengers and pilot and luggage and fuel must all be concentrated near the Aerodynamic Center of the wing.
Interesting... and it makes total sense the way you explain it! We hear a lot about how the rudder can make for a "spin proof" aircraft, but not a lot of people talk about the elevator authority. Great comment. Thanks for watching!
We all know that any airplane can stall, but thanks for calling out the specific claim. Appreciate the comment and most of all appreciate you watching!
Correct however I would have thought that any plane would progress into a spin if you were slow enough in a steep turn?🤷♂️. I haven't spoken to anyone that may have tried this on an Ercoupe before? Im too scared to try it on my own...
Vincent, the wing never really stalls. Mr Weick engineered the plane so that air is always moving over the wing root. All you get is a little burble and a hell of a descent rate! Another factor of spins is that you have to be in an uncoordinated/cross controlled turn. That’s impossible with an Ercoupe without rudder pedals. Every turn is perfectly coordinated. Tight spirals in any planes don’t turn into spins if there’s no stall or cross controls.
Interesting. Did you ever get back in one or was that it for you? They're not everyone's cup of tea, so we can see how you might have felt that way. In any case, thanks for watching and for commenting!
I love the look of these little aeroplanes, but I'm not sure I could cope without rudder pedals (I'd have to have one with or add the conversion). I was trying to puzzle a slide slip in one🤔🤔Great video btw✌️👍😊
Agreed on both counts! Personally, we feel the airplane would be better with the rudder kid, but others feel that the factory model is perfectly fine. It's all up to the pilot. Thank you so much for watching and for leaving a comment!
@@airspeedaltitude Youre most welcome, an interesting series. Ive heard that many pilots love them as they are, but I suspect that's like flying a flight sim on just the joystick - awkward to say the least. I'm partially disabled but I'd still rather fly with pedals, it gives more control and options. I know that their undercart is tough and cross wind tolerance is good, but with rudder pedals they'd be a fantastic little aeroplane 👍✌️😊💜
You don’t slip. You don’t need to slip. Just land it crabbed, get the nose down and the plane is engineered to automatically straighten itself out. It’ll take stronger cross winds that almost any other plane.
Engineered to automatically align itself after landing ….. you mean it has a (tortured) nosewheel tricycle undercarriage? I’d fit rudder pedals without any hesitation.
As both a private and R.C. pilot, I allways thought the Ercoupes rudder/aileron system would be great in an R.C. plane. I did have a chance to fly an Ercoupe years ago but unfortunately it had the rudder conversion.
@@airspeedaltitude Thanks for the kind thoughts, but I'm afraid I'll just have to be satisfied with lots of fine memories of adventures past. I must say, I find flyers to be some of the best people on the planet.
It makes sense to a non-pilot. Stalls and spin recovery 100% do not want aileron input. If it gets coordinated entering a turn it will be uncoordinated holding that turn, see how bad the ball was in ordinary flight.
My uncle told me about two guys who we’re trying to get the Air Coupe to spin. They finally did, but couldn’t get it out.!? But it is a Great airplane!
I would love for you guys to show the Ercoupe in a more positive light. Not that you were hard on the poor little thing. But it was kinda like picking or poor little "Herbie the Love Bug" guys. I am a now disabled Veteran who learned to fly in an Ercoupe in 2007 while stationed at Ft. Wainwright in Fairbanks Alaska. Man I loved that little plane. If you get one of the earlier models you can drop the windows and cruise around in your little convertible "Bug". I would love to come and show you guys how this thing can really fly. But this time, get a C, C/D or E model. They have the slide down windows, which keeps you much, much cooler. I also became an A&P after years of working on all of the Army's helicopters. But, the Ercoupe was still more fun.
The safety features designed into this airplane were astounding for the day (there are far too many to mention, so I won't list too many). It was the very first certified airplane in history to have "tricycle" landing gear, in fact that name was given by the Ercoupe designer Fred Weick. He later worked for Piper and had a hand in a little known line of aircraft called the Cherokee. No matter, the stall is prevented by limiting the up elevator travel. If the airplane cannot reach a pitch attitude at which a stall occurs, well, then, theoretically, it won't really stall. Try it again, on approach, stay at 500 feet agl., about 1/4 mile off the end of the runway on approach, carb heat, retard the power fully, pull full aft elevator and hang on because it will sink like a rock. Then either release back pressure or blip the power when near the ground, and viola! A beautiful landing, but it will scare the crap out of you so ya might wanna check your shorts!. Next, the pitch of the aircraft when properly maintained, while on the ground is a negative pitch (angle of incidence) which is about 3 degrees to the negative. Try it, land at 90 knots indicated, release the back pressure and it will stayed glued to the runway. Lastly, but not, the rudders do not move inboard as such, they each and separately move outboard during the process of turning. The H-Tail configuration allows the propeller slip stream to have no affect on the vertical stabilizers. Pretty cool right? I'll bet I could make any grown man or woman cry, suck their thumb and wan't mommy by demonstrating the airplane in a true crosswind scenario with no rudder pedals and a 15 knot direct crosswind. The expression given by the hard core "ruddies" would be epic and probably Emmy material. The reason for its outstanding crosswind is a secret, but not really, its in the landing gear design. I could go on and on about this gem of an airplane.
If'n y'all wanna know more, contact me and I can put you in touch with a lot more information. Not much, I mean the POH is like 3 pages with only one being truly relevant. Right?!
Tony
I’m 76 years old. My DAD had one when I was young enough to sit on my Brothers lap. He would take us flying out of Wayne Major airport in Romulus Michigan. He bought the plane in pieces and brought the wings home to aluminize them. I guess the weight factor was not a problem back then. He liked to go up North fishing with another flying buddy, land in farm fields and camp out. Fought under Geo. Patten and would scuba dive under the ice. A real man’s man as they say. May he rest in peace.
Great story! Did your dad order the airplane out of the Sears catalog?
@@airspeedaltitudeWOW!!!!! I'm very impressed!!!!!! You had some rhythm in your voice at 11:49-11:50 😇😇
Just watched the videos now for the first time. My father (now deceased) approached me 45 years ago asking that if he bought an ERcoupe and paid for me to get my private pilots license, could we go flying together. Gee dad. Let me think about it (for a micro second). He was close to 50 at that point in his life and unfortunaley, he could no longer hold an MOT (Ministry of Transport) flight medical. He had flown J3s for his flight training in his youth in the mid to late 40s. The aircraft he wanted to buy had been owned by a freind of his who had recently succumbed to Cancer. He bought the plane. I did my training, soloed in 35hrs, did my check ride at 65hrs and had my tie cut that day. My dad and I enjoyed many hours of flying the circuit and short cross countreis at/from and to our local airport (YBW). The Ercoupe is the ultimate example of "flying all day under the shade of the same tree". It is very tame but as has been pointed out, the cross wind landing of this aircraft is more than different. YBW has north/south and east/west runways but seldom do the winds follow the compass and at an altitude of 3940', Density Altitude is always a factor. Because of the winds, cross wind landing are the norm. Absent of any isolated rudder control you do crab the aircraft right down to the pavement. That's where the real fun begins however. As soon as the mains hit the aircraft will rapidly (some think violently) stop the crab and at that piont, the nose has to be down because your control is now "ONLY" by way of the steerable nose wheel. So you have to be ready to "LET" the plane GRAB the yoke and correct itself from the crab wing level position to the having to steer it straight down the runway mode. This takes a lot of getting used to and does scare the Hotel Echo Lima Lima out of a bucket load of folks. Besides that, I flew C-FIIT for many years and hundreds of hours. I got to spend many of those with my dad and gained great reward from watching him continuing enjoy his life long passion even if only from the right seat. The ERcoupe is very unique and in my mind, a great plane for someone who just wants to go flying. It is ultra-simplistic. You won't go anywhere quickly but in this plane, the journey is the reward. Hope this helps. Cheers!
When I was a young lad and had just got my A&P license I was working at a FBO at Chino airport and the shop was rebuilding a ercoupe that had an engine failure on departure out of Cable airport and got heavy damage. When the repairs were done it had to be flown before returning it to the owner and I was elected to do it as I was the only one in the shop with a pilot license except the manager who didn’t want to do it. When I was done with checking out all the flight parameters it was time to return for landing. There a a crosswind and the first two attempts I noticed as I flared I was in a crab which means I was a little sideways on the landing and went around. The manager was watching me and had a handheld and told me to just don’t hold it off and just drive onto the ground even if you are not aligned with the runway. When learning to fly an airplane with rudder pedals you are taught to always aligned the longitudinal axis of the airplane prior to touchdown . They built the landing gear on the ercoupe to take the side load and the mains are trailing link so it was a non event when you just plunked it on the ground and it would straighten right out. To this day when I see an ercoupe or someone brings one up I flash back to that day 46 years ago. It was a fun little airplane.
Thank you for sharing your story and your insight. Stay tuned for parts 2 and 3, which cover a lot of what you talked about. Cheers!
@@airspeedaltitude I will,definitely ck it out. Thanks!
That's very true Shane. That undercarriage is very robust and found its way onto Mooney aircraft back when Mooney bought out Ercoupe. Something to be said about that.
@@airspeedaltitude check out the Ercoupe on TH-cam "EAA event at flabob 2006" The way an Ercoupe is suppose to be landed in a strong crosswind.
Also, if you look at the nose gear when it is unloaded, you will see that the nose gear extends so that the tire is below the mains (not sure I explained that right). On landing, that is supposed to make ground contact earlier than a "normal" tri-gear airplane like, say, a Cherokee. Some owners decide that's wrong, and the use a steel cable to hold the nose wheel up, but the result is less control at touchdown.
Fred Weick know what he was doing. Yes, it flys a little differently than your Cherokee or 150, but if you fly it as intended it's really a great crosswind airplane.
I watched a video once on TH-cam of a fly-in somewhere out west, and they had a wicked crosswind. Every airplane made really hairy landings, but then came an Ercoupe (Original spelling, by the way. Fred Weick's company was Engineer Research Corporation.), and other than a little jerk where the airplane aligned itself with the runway, which it was supposed to do, it was a perfect landing.
The deal with the tall nose gear was to let the gear align itself with the direction of travel over the ground, regardless of yaw, then the rest of the airplane will follow.
B-52 pilots would probably feel right at home.
Great video! Dangerous for a pilot to fly that knows nothing about an Ercoupe. I restored one from a basket case and learned to really love flying it. 85 hp 1946. I took a flight instructor up in an over 30 mph crosswind because he wanted me to show him how it could takeoff and land safely. It freaked him out landing sideways. A pilot really needs to know how to handle the Ercoupe.
Well said! Once you understand it's characteristics, it's a joy to fly. Thanks for watching and for leaving a comment!
I used to own this very plane and loved every minute of flying it. Fred’s design was spot on and this airplane doesn’t need rudder pedals. In fact, it’s MuCH better without them. Because the rudders are very ineffective. Plus, I’m a tall pilot and loved the leg room!
Ha! It definitely has some leg room! Very cool to hear that you used to own this very airplane. Thanks for watching!
Unfortunately I bought mine with the rudder mod already done. AJ is right, who needs rudders anyway. One less thing to worry about 😂
Having time in coupes with and without rudder pedals, the Alon version of the rudder pedals would be my preferred option, followed by no pedals, and my least favorite is the rudder pedals from the prior manufacturers.
My Old Dad liked the Coupe too for the room, he was 6ft 8"
Ercoupe rudders work a lot differently than the rudder on a conventional plane.
these folks haven't got a clue about Ercoupes. OMG what a clown show. @@vincentmolloy5660
Owned a “46” for a few years and loved it. Gave a lot of free rides and let a lot of people fly it! The design is perfect as is.
Right on! Couldn't agree more. Thanks for watching and for sharing!
Your a natural on camera Dan! Thanks for taking us along for the ride 👍
I had one for several years, they are extremely hard to spin. I wished I still had it. Mine was a 1946 Ercoupe 416-C, with fabric wings.
Holy crap, great production, awesome idea for a show (multiple pilots in a weird airplane), and wonderful quality! Beautiful aircoupe!
Interesting video of an equally interesting plane. Note to student pilots: If you aren't sure if your airspeed indicator is accurate, go to a safe altitude and ease it into a stall in clean and dirty configurations. Better to find out for sure at 5000 ft. than on the turn from base to final.
Excellent advice! Thank you for watching and for leaving a comment!
FYI, the nickname "Scare" Coupe does not refer to rudderless pedals. It was the fabric covered wings model of the Aircoupe. It utilized "PK Screws" to attach the fabric to the ribs. When airborne the low pressure on top of the wings created a look the resembled a upholstered couch as you could see every button of those screws. That was the part that was scary. Most of them now are traditional recovered or metalized wings.
That is one purrrrdy little aircraft ...have always thought they were really easy on the eye compared to other contemporary small aircraft. Most enjoyable video - thanks..! : )
I soloed in a J3 cub in Honolulu and bought a 415C Ercoupe in 78. Thanks, I was able to relive the experience (trauma) of your self check out. Once ya get use to it the extra speed (compared to a J3) fuel burn and purchase cost (3k in 78) made it a great first airplane. Did I mentioned its kind of a chick magnet.. I was able to visit all the islands and always had company.
Ha! I can see it being a "chick magnet" LOL. Thanks for watching!
What a great video! I flew one of these in the late 70s. It's an extremely lightweight aircraft; the closest similar flying experience for me is a three-channel RC airplane (throttle/rudder/elevator) because it bounces around in the slightest breeze and it feels like you never have complete control. Despite Its full-size-model-plane vibe...it's a real joy to fly. I think that's due to the toy-like feel.
Well, thank you for that lovely comment! We'll keep them coming. Appreciate you watching!
Ercoupe is actually refined and meticulous. A friend had an Ercoupe and an airport. Like it for what it is, not what it isn't.
That's fair! And a nice way of putting it. We do love the coupe - definitely unique!
My flying club has an Erco 415-C with an 85hp Continental and a rudder pedal conversion. It took me about 20 hours after my checkout to feel really comfortable in it. I found that I needed a LOT of rudder input because it didn’t have a lot of rudder authority. I also learned (the hard way) that the climb gradient is unnervingly flat and that the airplane has the glide characteristics of a crowbar; pull the throttle back, and it comes down RIGHT NOW.
Through trial and error (mostly error!) I worked out that this particular airplane (I don’t know if all Ercoupes behave this way) prefers 80mph with power throughout the pattern: 2200 rpm on downwind, 2000 rpm on base leg, 1800 rpm on final, all at 80mph, and it’s very well behaved, anything other than that and it comes out of the sky like a grand piano.
For an O-200, I'd recommend lowering those power settings by about 200 rpm, but do what works for you...
Throttle back to idle as you flare, and it practically lands itself. Crosswind landings are a piece of cake; hold a crab all the way down final and touch down in the crab; the trailing-link gear takes care of the rest.
I probably would have called it the Scarecoupe, too, if I’d thought of the name, but once you figure out how it’s different from other airplanes, it’s a lot of fun to fly.
FAVORITE COMMENT SO FAR! Haha! But seriously, really cool of you to share your initial experience and how you worked it out with the specific power settings. Appreciate you watching and commenting!
@@airspeedaltitude You're most welcome; I'm looking forward to seeing your experience flying a 'Coupe equipped with rudder pedals!
Be proud! You've finally performed and experienced an "Ercoupe Landing." I think that the actual sales point was not that it wouldn't stall .... it was that it wouldn't SPIN. (Because you can't cross the controls.) But ... I'm sure someone managed to do it somewhere....somehow. I would not volunteer for that event.
Ha! Indeed. We are proud! The Aircoupe was fun, despite the discomfort. And yes, as you pointed out the claim is that it was "spin resistant" but what we question is this: how can you be spin resistant if you're not stall resistant as well? Is a stalled wing not required for a spin? I guess our point is that it could be easy to confuse the two. In any case, we don't want to volunteer for either event as well!
Snowmobiler here. My main ride is big bore and very fast. Sets the skis back on the snow at 55 m.p.h. This coupe is like me riding my grandson,s Bravo 250 Yamaha. So light..so quirky.. you love it. Makes me giggle every time i flick that little snow machine around in a ditch!. Looks like a blast.! Hyabusa riders can still enjoy a moped!
Great video. I owned a 1947 Ercoupe N3968H for 10 years flying out of Fullerton & Chino (1999 to 2009) and am flying formation in RV's these days (West Coast Ravens & Dawn Patrol). I've landed at Williams Gateway Airport in an honest to gosh tower called 30 knot direct cross wind (I was following friends in RV's). It was 'exciting', but it has been done. Keeping it to 20 knot max cross wind component is probably a smarter idea. Yes they feel weird landing and taking off to the tail wheel guys, but bottom line is IT WORKS GREAT!!! There is a video of multiple aircraft including me landing the Coupe at Flabob when the Santa Anna's were gusting to 20+ knots taken by a guy who fly's a Bellanca - it is entertaining to watch the Ercoupe land where others struggled! I flew it to OSH and back along I-80 over the Sierra's to Elko, and then to Rock Springs via SLC. Also flew it to Arlington and back, and Sequim and back several times. Great little airplanes as long as you don't need to carry too much or go fast. Just enjoy the heck out of flying them with the canopy open and have a great day!
Thank you for watching and for sharing this story! I think we may have seen you buzzing by Flabob in an RV formation this past Saturday? I (Jeff) was out there over the weekend with EAA. In any case, that's really something with the crosswinds - the couple is a robust little bird and as many have pointed out, it's still going after all these years. I've been personally fascinated with them since I was a kid. See you around!
@@airspeedaltitude Hi Jeff, Yes, I was in the flight of RV's Saturday morning. I was flying # 4 in the slot in the yellow and blue RV-9A. We rehearse a 4 to 7 ship air show routine most Saturdays over Lake Mathews then debrief over breakfast at Corona, Flabob, or Hemet.
My first lesson was in a 46 Ercoupe. It was a docile stable aircraft and fun
That's wonderful! Thank you for watching and for sharing!
My coupe had rudder peddles... it just had no real rudder authority. Great little ship. Wish I still had it. I bought the airplane as an alternative to renting a school ship for flight training. Not knowing at the time how unique it was and licensed in it... you were rated for it only. I flew the wings off of it. All of his observations were accurate. Although for me having zero time there were no issues having nothing to compare it to. 50 years after the fact, I was the target customer for the concept. Steer it like a car, forgiving flight characteristics, great visibility added up to be a lot of fun for me. Landing just let her yaw into the wind. Paint her on, chop the throttle and steer down the runway. I had difficulty when I bought my Cherokee which had rudder authority. That was a whole new box of cornflakes to learn!
This is such a great comment! Thank you for sharing your experience and insight! This adds so much to the 'coupe conversation here at A&A. You're not alone in mentioning that the coupes with rudder kits didn't have much authority. Also interesting that when you transitioned into the Cherokee, you mentioned some difficulty getting used to it. Makes sense if you came from having so much time in the coupe and had not experienced other airplanes. Thank you so much for watching and for engaging with us!
That is one really nice super clean Ercoupe!! Wow!
Hey Daniel and Jeff,
Great production and I like the perspective you guys offer all while having a lot of fun doing it. Look forward to more.
Cheers' N6121A 👍
Cheers to you! We appreciate your warm remarks and we'll definitely keep on doing more of these videos. Appreciate you!
My Grandpa had a 46 Ercoupe that he flew for many many years.
Unfortunately my 6'2" frame wouldn't fit without being firmly pressed into the dash.
It was a beautiful airplane. Fully polished. Sadly he sold it when his health began to fail.
We lost him this last summer.
So sorry for your loss. Sounds like you had some amazing memories in the Ercoupe. Thank you for watching and thank you for sharing!
I've flown it before with no trouble.
Loved flying it. Loved having the top down. And my arm out the window.
had one for awhile...fun to take people flying for sure. Because the main gear actually casters a little, you land the airplane with what crab you need to keep it centered on the runway....
Yup! That's what we've learned, no small thanks to many other folks like you who have shared their experience. It's such a cool airplane and we actually had a blast flying it and putting these videos together. Thanks for watching!
Don't fight the wind on landing. It is made to land in a crab as it has trailing link gear. The second you touch down it will align with the runway. It will land fine with nose way off runway heading. So there is no crosswind when you crab into the wind until you touchdown and it goes straight.
Indeed, but easier said than done, LOL! At least it was for some of us. It just feels foreign at first, but you are ultimately right, and this fact is pointed out in STICK & RUDDER. We do address that a bit in the 3rd upcoming episode. Thank you for watching and for commenting!
You are right... Flying the Ercoupe in Iceland where the wind is often blowing like crazy, the Ercoupes I flew there were awesome in crosswinds.
I absolutely loved you reaction to the rudderless Coupe ...
Thank you! Definitely feels weird at first, but we're sure that given time, it's something anyone can get used to. It's a unique airplane! Thanks for watching!
I've got plenty of time in a 150, 152 aTri-Pacer a cub, Citabria,a champ and Ercoupes. After a few minutes in the air just because the way the various airplanes are rigged you just sort of know what to do. The airplane tells you how it wants to be handled if you know how to listen.
Ercoupes are a pure blast to fly with top down on a beautiful day they are flying like you dreamed of as a kid.
I've got to try Pacer right now but if I could afford two airplanes you better believe the other airplane would be an Ercoupe
I owned a 66 Alon. Mine did have rudder pedals. I actually met the designer Fred Weick a Aviation legend. Was fun flying with the canopy open. I had a full instrument panel including a wing leveler. Airplane will straighten right out landing in a full crab.
Wow! Thanks for sharing - so cool you met Fred! That's amazing! We really appreciate you watching and for sharing your thoughts. Cheers!
Definitely a different kind of plane. Might be a good aircraft for paraplegics. Thanks for the video.
Apparently it became a popular platform for folks with certain disabilities. Thank you for watching and for commenting!
Hi. Yes i have flown an Er Coupe. I have 2 friends who have Er Coupes. I’ve flown with both of them. Lots of fun!! Great video!!
Thanks for watching!
My first ride in a small aircraft was in an Ercoupe in 1958. I was 11yo, the plane belonged to a friend of my dad who took me up.
Decades ago I knew two brothers who had a 1966 Alon 'Coupe. IIRC, it had rudder pedals added to it.
They took me for a couple of rides in it. IT WAS REALLY FUN!
Mine has the fuel injected 0-200 with the rudder pedal mod installed. Makes a big difference in rough weather and on the flare but it still all goes out the widow when the front wheel touches down🤣. Driving with the yoke is hilarious. Nice video. Great little planes
Thank you for watching and for your kind remarks. We're definitely curious to fly one with a rudder kit one day!
We brought one of these to perfect condition at the aircraft mechanics school I attended in 1968. It took us awhile to complete all that was needed. Parked it out on the apron and lightning hit it and it caught fire and was a complete loss. Never got to fly it!!!!! I almost bought a coordinated control Piper Tri Pacer back in the day that would fly but had to be recovered before it could be legal. Didn't have the time or a place to do that so I let it go on by. It actually had rudder pedals if I remember correctly, but the yoke would also control the rudder.
Hit by lightning!? Oh man... that's a crazy story. So sorry you never got to fly it. Thanks for watching and for sharing your story!
@@airspeedaltitude It wasn't my plane. We just did some major repairs to it. Lots of blood sweat and tears only to see it destroyed. Cool little plane. Sixties, we put roll and tuck and shag carpet in it too. 😝
Always wanted one but never one to be found. Enjoyed the video thanks for sharing.
Thank YOU for watching! Appreciate the comment!
Awesome video! An Ercoupe with 100hp is definitely different than the original. I owned the last 1950 415G produced and it was also converted to 100hp. I never remember hearing it was built to not stall, but rather not spin. During the stall, you do have full aileron control though which may be part of the confusion. The split elevator that you flew also handles different than the original elevator. I have landed an Ercoupe in crosswinds that I would probably not attempt in a traditional airplane like a Cessna 150. It was a great airplane to build time in. If you get the chance, definitely put some more hours in it and you will get to appreciate its weirdness. With the 100hp and split elevator, try a short field landing with power and monitor vertical speed like a glassy water landing in a float plane. It’s amazing. I landed (and took off) in my friends 1200ft hay field. I look forward to the next videos!
Thank you so much for watching and for sharing your insight. We were aware that it was touted as "spin proof" yet the general consensus among pilots (non-coupe pilots) is that is has a reputation for being stall proof (which no airplane is). Good call out on the split elevator. I also wonder if part of the confusion is that if the airplane is "spin proof" do people just assume it's stall proof because in order to spin, one wing must stall to a greater degree than the other? In any case, comments like these are creating great discussion. We look forward to having you watch our next video!
I had a 1968 Alon A2A. Mine had rudder peddels. 90 hp. Continental. In fact I obtained my private with it.
My Dad flow a natural finished Ercoupe. It was a beautiful and unique aircraft.
Awesome! Thank you for watching and thank you for sharing!
Very nice video congratulations
Awesome video Daniel! Production value, editing, content, this is really great stuff. I’d love to see a lot more from you guys. Especially on the tailwheel, vintage, formation, etc stuff. Do a deep dive to convince me to buy a Cessna 180, please. 😁👍
Thanks Chris! I hope all is well! I will have to ask a friend to borrow his 180 just to do that!
@@airspeedaltitude to
I got my tailwheel endorsement in a Taylorcraft. It needed about a 2000 ft runway to land on because when you get down to 2' off the runway it floats for another 1500' it seems. (maybe a little exaggeration here). Tailwheel planes are a riot to fly.
I have flight time in the Alon A-2 Ercoupe, N5475E, N6571Q and N6573Q. All flew very well back in 1968-1969 when I was in North Carolina, Jacksonville with the Marine Corps at NCAF New River. I checked my logbook and see that I have a total of about 50 hours in the little planes. I really enjoyed that plane and it could land on almost a dime. If my memory serves me correctly the power off stall speed was 52 MPH and power on stall speed was 47MPH. No flaps, little rudder authority but a nice flying little machine especially for one person.
The owners of one of the little planes was selling it to a farmer. I was asked to fly the plane into their extremely sort grass strip. The day I was to fly it I had to fly over the little strip and see if I had enough room to land. The runway wasn't more than 50 foot wide grass and gravel just beyond a 4 foot barbed wire fence. I know it would be close so I flew it at 55MPH until just before the fence, slowed it down to 50 just at the fence and with 3 feet from the ground chopped the throttle. If fell like a rock, stalled. I was on the brakes before it touched the ground. It was an extremely short landing. The buyers were impressed and bought the plane. I flew it out of that little spot just missing the fence on the way out and parked it at the JACKSONVILLE AIR SERVICE (W88) ramp. The plane never went into that runway again. The new owners could not get the plane into that tight spot. They parked it at the new airport (at the time) near Jacksonville.
As I say, before I listen to this video, this was a great little airplane that gave me hours and hours of pleasure flying back in 1968-1969.
This is awesome! You should have so many more subs for content of this quality!
Wow, thank you! We are trying! Thank you for watching and for commenting - really appreciate your kind words!
When my Dad was a live and owned a flight service a long beach airport (Pardew's flying service ) we had one white and red, I was 13 and flying PA 12's and Tcrafts , but when dad was showing me how to fly the Erocoupe , I got use to no rudder peddles , and after that it was fun to fly . After a week or so we completely restored this plane all new skin, rebuilt engine ( 110) and rudder controls toe brakes . then it was real nice to fly !!
I flew a couple of them in Iceland... TF-RCK & TF-KBA back in 1968-1969. Awesome little aircraft that is lots of fun to fly.
Iceland - how cool! These little birds get around!
I have flown several Aircoups, fun plane. The drawbacks of coupled rudder is a simple fix. A kit is made to add ruder pedals.
Indeed! Thank you for watching and for commenting!
@@airspeedaltitude Aircoup is a very sturdy airplane. 1975 I almost bought one from a TWA pilot, his logs showed one major repair, a previous owner knocked 4 feet off the top of a telephone pole in fog with the landing gear. Able to land, it was repaired and recertification. I could have bought it then for $2500.00, and waited too long.
not the best one to get your license in I reckon they have always intrigued me as well so I totaly enjoyed this
They're definitely an intriguing little airplane. We love them, actually, despite how some viewers are misunderstanding our reactions. And that's all they are... reactions. Opinions. It can be tricky to transition into one of these things if you're used to having rudder pedals, but like anything - with practice - you can overcome it. Definitely recommend trying one out one day - it's somethin'!
Great little plane, because, just as you thought you had it nailed, they teach you the basics of flying all over again.
Well said! Thank you for watching and for leaving a comment!
Actually, you don't really need to "steer" the nose down the runway in a X-wind landing. As I recall (from a long, long time ago...an Ercoupe was my very first airplane) the over-simplified aircraft operating manual said something like this: establish the correct crab on final to zero out lateral drift, land the 'Coupe in the crab and trust the gear to track you straight down the runway.
I also recall (from a long, long time ago) that a strong crosswind would lift the upwind wing and the "natural" reaction of throwing the yoke over to lower that wing would turn the nosewheel and you'd end up steering yourself into a ground loop.
Fun airplane for sure.
I am not a pilot... YET I find this video amazing. You are flying the safest airplane ever made for decades, and are nervous. Now would you be as nervous in a vee tailed #35 doctor killer, I would guess probobly not, because of rudder peddles. Thank you for proving if Richy and the bopper were in an Ercoup they would still be singing.
Ha! Yeah... we'll have to do a V-tail episode some day. I (Jeff) have not flown one yet. Flying is something that should always be a "gut check" no matter what machine you're flying. We take it very seriously but we also have fun along the way. For a non-pilot you seem to have some aviation knowledge. What are you waiting for!? Haha. Thanks for watching!
The Bonanza is the General Aviation Piston Single that All Others are Judged against.
To label it as a doctor killer discounts the fact the type has flown countless millions of hours in perfect safety, many countless millions of miles in Actual, by pilots with less experience than many who killed themselves in the same airplane.
@@Triple_J.1 can we just agree to disagree? How much is a new one...what do you mean they quit making them....not the one by which all others a judged....36,s do not coach as often..why is that?
Wow you feel the same way as i do! Love anything that flies!!!!!
Beautiful airplane!
I bought an ercoupe, then took lessons, they have trailing wheel mains designed just for crosswind landings. Took my flight test to get my license in a 235 piper with little training so I would not be resricted to ercoupe. Flew the coupe for many years, wish I still had it, but graduated to a piper arrow could not afford two airplanes at same time
Great video! Never flown one, I’d love to give it a try some time!
You should!
The Alon version of the coupe is a very nice little airplane. With the C90 engine and a prop halfway between standard and cruise pitch, 115 mph was a leisurely pace for cross country flying, and if needed, 127 mph could be achieved.
My first 100 hours of ownership cost less than $50 per hour, including fuel, insurance, hangar rent, and maintenance in 2017. Still wish I hadn't sold it.
Thank you for watching and for leaving a comment. This is the sense we get from most people who talk about coupes. They are truly a unique and formidable airplane. And who doesn't love $50/hr?
I agree! I got checked out in a 3 control Alon, and was very impressed…especially compared to the tired gutless 75hp Ercoupe I had flown previously….
So you're never going to slip hard against a strong crosswind, or to make an emergency landing on a short space.
First airplane I ever flew and could land and take off, I was 8yrs old. then on to 7AC champ. That is a Beauty of a Coupe.
Love it! And we agree... we were lucky to fly this little coupe. So much fun! Thanks for watching and for leaving a comment!
Have some pre license time in one. I was told “ if you can drive a car you can fly an Ercoupe” so I did! Was a lot less work than my ‘46 Willy’s Jeep!!
Yeah the old MBs and GPWs were a handful as well, so you got us there!
I'm going to buy one for time building. It's a unique aircraft. I rent a Comanche 260 for IFR time. So that's not a problem. Apparently, the Ercoupe was used to help train airline pilots to approach with a crab. When jets came along, they were worried the pilots would hit the longer wings on landing without extra training. I guess the common idea was to just side slip the final.
Definitely unique! And definitely affordable as a time-builder. Interesting perspective re: airline pilot training. It makes sense because you have to pretty much commit to the crab. Another cool historical thing on Ercoupes was that they were used by Jack Parsons (founder of JPL) to develop jet-assisted take-off units. If you want a chuckle, check this out: th-cam.com/video/2w0mKobISt4/w-d-xo.html
Jet assist....now there,s an idea 💡 🤔 😂
@@airspeedaltitude I'm waiting for the STC
It wasn’t the 707 wingtip they were worried about, it was the low hanging engine pods. They were afraid the engines would get dragged on a steep slip, hence the crab training.
Flew one 40+ years ago. It was a KICK! Weird but cool at the same time.
I learned to fly and got my private in N5682F, i think it was a 1966 model Alon A2. It was a 3-control plane. $11/hr tach time, wet. This was back in 1970. Fun, fun airplane!
That's great! We love hearing these stories. And wow.... $11/hr tach time, wet - hard to fathom that now! Thanks for watching and for leaving a comment!
My Dad owned an ercoupe and we flew over Disneyland when I was 4 yrs. old in it in 1958 . I got to fly one when I was in the Civil Air Patrol . Great little airplane , fun , simple , economical , kinda like a Volkswagen with wings , wish I had one today . Thanks for the memories ! 😎👍
That's great! And you are welcome for the memories. So wonderful that you got to fly the coupe to Disneyland. Kind of feels like a Disney story all on its own. Thank you for watching and for leaving a comment!
I used to teach in one at 12N back in the 90s. Fun and easy to fly. Was underpowered though with two adults.
Very cool! Thanks for watching and for sharing!
I would like to build a “Twin Coupe” replica. The original aerobatic TC was a real attention getter. We always tried to ‘loop the coupe,’ but failed miserably. Three degrees above the horizon let us know that the loop was doomed at the beginning. Love ‘em.
We've heard of the Twin Coupe - that would be cool to see!
First AC my dad and I flew in when I was a kid. You CAN stall with effort the no rudder type and the rudder type for sure it stalls like another.
Hilarious little rig!!! I love the fact that this thing has a full panel complete with an ILS. I can't imagine landing this thing at minimums. Bawahaha! not that the rudders have anything to do with it.
Ha! Right!?
Hey..I would love flying that Ercoup😊
i have owned 5 Alons but all had factory 3 axis controls. Standard with a C-90 they are the best kept secret in general aviation.Safe ,fast efficient and FUN! Fly with the canopy open.My wife earned her PPl in 30 days on it. When I stop flying my Pitts,Eagle,RV6,Sopwith Camel ,i will keep the Alon and fly into the sunset.
Awesome! It is a fun airplane!
I love this little plane
So do we!!! Thank you for watching and for sharing!
The Coupe is VERY hard to land in cross winds greater than 15knots. The wing has just enough dihedral to create a lift factor for the cross wind once down and this causes the wing to lift. But if you put in the control to keep the wing down, you turn the plane too. NOT a good situation. In calm weather though, this is a wonderful plane to fly.
Yeah, that pretty much sums up our experience, though we would also note our lack of time in the airplane. Given time, we are certain anyone can become more proficient in x-wind landings in the coupe. And in all fairness, a calm day might have yielded different responses. All in all, though, the experience was fun and it taught us a great deal. Thank you for watching and for commenting!
@@airspeedaltitude If you want to see something AMAZING and also Intimidating, look up the girl with NO ARMS who flies that plane like a pro. You won't believe it.
Great visibility.
We agree! They're also just cool looking. Nothin' like a coupe. Thanks for watching!
I restored a 1946 415c Ercoupe back to almost completion before selling it. It had a C85 with a gas STC and rudder pedals. I have never seen one with an 0200 in it?
That must have been a cool little restoration project! Thank you for watching and for sharing!
That is the same year and model Ercoupe that I used to fly out of Detroit City Airport back i 1979-80.
They are designed not to spin due to the aileron rudder interconnect. "they are not suppose to stall" is incorrect. All airplanes can stall when they get slow enough.
Well said! And we are, in fact, aware. NO airplane is stall proof. Personally we wouldn't trust that this airplane is 100% spin proof either. Anyway, thanks for watching and for leaving a comment!
You can stall at any speed.
@@WoutervanTiel Yup, right you are!
Fun airplane, also had that same experience as Daniel of..."this doesn't feel right on landing".
Indeed... close to the ground is where things get very interesting.
I had a '46 model and used it to build hours and take my check ride. At 6'4" it was pretty cramped for me. Sure was fun to fly with the windows open and arm on the sill like driving a car. I called it my Little B 12 1/2
Ha! Love that! Appreciate you sharing that story, and we really appreciate you watching and commenting. Thank you!
A great little airplane. My dad bought a 415C at an auction at the Portsmouth, VA airport in either 1960 or 1961 = $1900. N87119.
Wow! Hard to fathom these days... aircraft prices being what they are. Thank you for watching and commenting!
Back in 1979-80 I used to fly N87420 out of Detroit City Airport (DET). It also was "rudderless" (even though that is a misnomer) and was a great little plane to fly.
My brother-in-law had 2 of these. I got to fly the first one! It is like car that that fly!
Thanks for watching and leaving a comment.
You going to log that time as time in a "Scare Coup"?
Nah! But that would be funny... thanks for watching!
they make a rudder peddle kit for that thing, can't do much/anything about the trike gear but damn nice little toy.
Yeah, we are curious to fly one with the "rudder kit." It's definitely a fun little toy. Despite our jokes, we really do love this airplane. Thanks for watching!
100 hp is a fair amount of power for an Ercoupe. Looks like a very nice example of one.
It's a great little airplane, no doubt. Our reactions (speaking for myself at least) have much more to do with the unique flight characteristics making us feel like a fish out of water rather than any inherent design flaws. Thanks for watching!
@@airspeedaltitude I would have the same reaction. I have a lot of tailwheel time and also a couple of thousand hours in my Bonanza. It would be a hard adjustment but I have always liked the look of the Ercoupe. Figure that may be my old mans plane.
Beautiful airplane. I'd love to go fly one.
That's what we kept saying to one another! It really is a gorgeous little airplane. Definitely try one out if you get a chance!
Almost bought one with rudder pedal STC. Got a Grumman instead because it met my needs better but still like the Coupes.
Nice! Stay tuned for episode 4... we play with a Grumman Tiger.
@@airspeedaltitude yes sir! Can’t wait.
I have Alon Aircoupe N5650F. Mine came from the factory with rudder pedals.
So it's one of the later models? Very cool! Thanks for watching and for commenting!
@@airspeedaltitude All of the Alons were from 1965 to 1967. All came with rudder pedals from the factory unless you ordered one with special instructions to delete them.
Didn’t the original Wright Flyer have a similar arrangement? It applied rudder against the adverse yaw from wing warping, far worse than with ailerons. That plane would scare me to death.
We're not engineers, but as you hinted, the Wright Flyer did utilize wing warping. The coupes, on the other hand, still have ailerons and rudder(s) but the difference (compared to other airplanes) is that they are interconnected and thus controlled, solely, by the yoke. Thank you for leaving a comment!
when I was 14, I flew in my grandfather's Ercoupe and his instructor was a retired RCAF pilot. We did a barrel roll over the airport.
That's outstanding!!! Thanks for the comment and appreciate you watching.
never flown a Coupe, but what i've heard they were designed to be landed crabbed, and the tricycle gear will straighten out on touchdown (?).. would like to give it a try someday...
If you have the chance, definitely give it a try! And you are correct, the gear is supposed to take a crabbed landing like you described. The trick (for us anyway) was getting over that mental hurdle because, of course, most of us learned to NOT land that way. Other than a few quirks, there's NOTHING wrong with coupes - great little airplane!
I am an old tail wheel guy, so I’m wondering how funky it would be but yes, I would like to give it a try
Coupes are so cool.
We agree! Thanks for watching!
Its really kool little plane
Indeed, it really is!!!
Rudderless controls have little to do with making a stall-proof aircraft. The fact the elevator power is limited by size and control throw is what prevents the aircraft wing from being trimmed to the stall Angle of Attack.
Taking this concept to heart, any pilot with a pulse can learn to limit their aft-stick control throw, thereby eliminating stalls in every make and model aircraft that exists.
There was a lot of talk in the 1930s of stall-proof design concepts and none are too too difficult to implement. What is hard is making a 4+ seat aircraft with limited elevator power, because when loaded at forward CG it might not have the authority to lift the nose gear to flare. And when loaded aft, it could have enough tail power to stall. Therefore the passengers and pilot and luggage and fuel must all be concentrated near the Aerodynamic Center of the wing.
Interesting... and it makes total sense the way you explain it! We hear a lot about how the rudder can make for a "spin proof" aircraft, but not a lot of people talk about the elevator authority. Great comment. Thanks for watching!
The claim is NOT that the plane cannot be stalled, it is that the plane is “ incapable of spinning “.
We all know that any airplane can stall, but thanks for calling out the specific claim. Appreciate the comment and most of all appreciate you watching!
Correct however I would have thought that any plane would progress into a spin if you were slow enough in a steep turn?🤷♂️. I haven't spoken to anyone that may have tried this on an Ercoupe before? Im too scared to try it on my own...
Vincent, the wing never really stalls. Mr Weick engineered the plane so that air is always moving over the wing root. All you get is a little burble and a hell of a descent rate! Another factor of spins is that you have to be in an uncoordinated/cross controlled turn. That’s impossible with an Ercoupe without rudder pedals. Every turn is perfectly coordinated.
Tight spirals in any planes don’t turn into spins if there’s no stall or cross controls.
The first time I flew in an Air Coupe I could hardly wait to get out.
Interesting. Did you ever get back in one or was that it for you? They're not everyone's cup of tea, so we can see how you might have felt that way. In any case, thanks for watching and for commenting!
Air coups always had problems with cross wind landings...I believe a "Kit" is available to give some rudder control ????
Correct. There were kits available that allowed one to install pedals for independent control. Thanks for watching!
I love the look of these little aeroplanes, but I'm not sure I could cope without rudder pedals (I'd have to have one with or add the conversion). I was trying to puzzle a slide slip in one🤔🤔Great video btw✌️👍😊
Agreed on both counts! Personally, we feel the airplane would be better with the rudder kid, but others feel that the factory model is perfectly fine. It's all up to the pilot. Thank you so much for watching and for leaving a comment!
@@airspeedaltitude Youre most welcome, an interesting series. Ive heard that many pilots love them as they are, but I suspect that's like flying a flight sim on just the joystick - awkward to say the least. I'm partially disabled but I'd still rather fly with pedals, it gives more control and options. I know that their undercart is tough and cross wind tolerance is good, but with rudder pedals they'd be a fantastic little aeroplane 👍✌️😊💜
You don’t slip. You don’t need to slip. Just land it crabbed, get the nose down and the plane is engineered to automatically straighten itself out.
It’ll take stronger cross winds that almost any other plane.
@@kenthompson3730 Interesting. I happen to think though that having the ability to slip is an extra weapon in the arsenal - plus they can be fun💜✌️😉
Engineered to automatically align itself after landing ….. you mean it has a (tortured) nosewheel tricycle undercarriage? I’d fit rudder pedals without any hesitation.
As both a private and R.C. pilot, I allways thought the Ercoupes rudder/aileron system would be great in an R.C. plane.
I did have a chance to fly an Ercoupe years ago but unfortunately it had the rudder conversion.
Interesting perspective. Either way, we hope you still enjoy flying, RC, Ercoupe, rudder, no-rudder, or otherwise. Thanks for commenting!
@@airspeedaltitude Thanks for the kind thoughts, but I'm afraid I'll just have to be satisfied with lots of fine memories of adventures past.
I must say, I find flyers to be some of the best people on the planet.
It makes sense to a non-pilot. Stalls and spin recovery 100% do not want aileron input. If it gets coordinated entering a turn it will be uncoordinated holding that turn, see how bad the ball was in ordinary flight.
Agreed. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching!
My uncle told me about two guys who we’re trying to get the Air Coupe to spin. They finally did, but couldn’t get it out.!? But it is a Great airplane!
Without a rudder……how would you recover from a spin?
Question from non-pilot: What is the little tube, standing vertically, in front of the windshield?
Float gauge for the header tank.
I have flown in one of these . Continental engine. Felt safe