In my experience the people Who rose to the top in most institutions tend to be the people Who are so systemetised that they'll defend the institution instead of doing what's right.
Thank you for this Piers. During your talk I think you hit a number of very important nails on the head. What I would add is that there is probably also a social class thing go on. The Anglican and Evangelical and Charismatic church movements (all of which have a complicated symbiosis) tend to be dominated both in terms of leadership and congregation by people (usually men) from aristocratic or middle class backgrounds. This apparently goes right the way back to the latter eighteenth century with the industrial and agricultural revolutions and people leaving the land and going to work in factories in towns and there not being enough of a robust church network there to spiritually support them in their new lives. People from wealthy backgrounds sometimes think they themselves should decide what rules they follow rather than the police simply because they are rich and "superior". It is something Inspector Morse always says to Lewis at the end of each murder case "They (some academic or aristocratic figure) thought they could get away with it - didn't they. But we got them" The police or "plods", as some rich people refer to them as, are often stereotyped as coming from working class backgrounds. There is a certain type of aristocrat or rich person who does not - as they see it - want a grubby working class "plod" telling them what to do. To say the least this is a highly arrogant and abusive attitude but it can be there. This ties in with the abusive elitism of many boarding schools. Thus the aristocratic or certainly wealthy social status Anglican church does not want a load of working class police officers taking over and very probably arresting people and putting them in prison. Social services (another vital service when it comes to sexual abuse and sadistic corporal punishment being humanely dealt with) is often viewed in the same way. This class arrogance which I think does linger in some aspects of the Anglican church can also be fortified with a kind of spiritual arrogance. We are the church. We are the men (and far too rarely women) of God. We are in touch with God. We know what is best. We don't want some grubby humanist association like the police or social workers telling us what to do in our holy house. This may not effect Welby personally but this sort of arrogance just like the class arrogance can be there and it is astounding. It isn't even proper Christianity (since this admits that we are all - not matter how many pennies are in our pockets - or how many fancy Bishops hats we have) a group of very sick sinners who desperately need the help of Jesus. But you are right Piers to point out that sometimes it isn't the case of there being an elephant in the room that no-one has seen yet. Sometimes there can be a whole herd of elephants in a room that nobody is going to mention because no-one else is mentioning them and people are terrified by what might happen if they do. No that the fear is an excuse.
Even more important to recognise the role of independent quality journalism. Bringing what you say slong the same lines I can connect this to the treatment of Julian Assange
@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 You are absolutely right about the journalism and I think very much of the journalistic team on channel 4. I suspect on issues such as this channel 4 news can more lead the way as it is less establishment than the BBC. What those journalists discovered and highlighted was something truly truly ugly and appalling. I remember how they confronted John Smyth and he tried to dismiss them like he was some sort of Lord of the Manor. I will never forget the sinister laughter of his wife in the background either. I think with her it may have been the highly complicated situation where she was both victim but also co-abuser at the same time. Sometimes in these situations there can be these hideous combinations. At the end of the day there was absolutely no excuse for her behaviour either. She would write the "sins" of Smyths son in a black book that Smyth would examine when he came home. He would then use what she wrote to structure the caning regime that went on in the garden shed. However frightening her husband was her first duty as a parent was to her children.
Yes!i taught at a school where tbere were repeated complaints about emotional abuse ftom a teacher but in spite of parents' complaints and concern nothinv was done..cover up supreme!
Emotional abuse?? What bollox! a slap round the head and get told to grow up and be a man never did any of us any harm!! Oh how I despise these weak wet , influencing wokes!!!
Most of the time, we try to avoid inflicting pain on others - when we do hurt someone, we typically experience guilt, remorse, or other feelings of distress. But for some, cruelty can be pleasurable, even exciting. New research suggests that this kind of everyday sadism is real and more common than we might think. Two studies led by psychological scientist Erin Buckels of the University of British Columbia revealed that people who score high on a measure of sadism seem to derive pleasure from behaviors that hurt others, and are even willing to expend extra effort to make someone else suffer. The new findings are published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science. “Some find it hard to reconcile sadism with the concept of ‘normal’ psychological functioning, but our findings show that sadistic tendencies among otherwise well-adjusted people must be acknowledged,” says Buckels. “These people aren’t necessarily serial killers or sexual deviants but they gain some emotional benefit in causing or simply observing others’ suffering.” Based on their previous work on the “Dark Triad” of personality, Buckels and colleagues Delroy Paulhus of the University of British Columbia and Daniel Jones of the University of Texas El Paso surmised that sadism is a distinct aspect of personality that joins with three others - psychopathy, narcissism, and Machiavellianism - to form a “Dark Tetrad” of personality traits. To test their hypothesis, they decided to examine everyday sadism under controlled laboratory conditions. They recruited 71 participants to take part in a study on “personality and tolerance for challenging jobs.” Participants were asked to choose among several unpleasant tasks: killing bugs, helping the experimenter kill bugs, cleaning dirty toilets, or enduring pain from ice water. Participants who chose bug killing were shown the bug-crunching machine: a modified coffee grinder that produced a distinct crunching sound so as to maximize the gruesomeness of the task. Nearby were cups containing live pill bugs, each cup labeled with the bug’s name: Muffin, Ike, and Tootsie. The participant’s job was to drop the bugs into the machine, force down the cover, and “grind them up.” The participants didn’t know that a barrier actually prevented the bugs from being ground up and that no bugs were harmed in the experiment. Of the 71 participants, 12.7% chose the pain-tolerance task, 33.8% chose the toilet-cleaning task, 26.8% chose to help kill bugs, and 26.8% chose to kill bugs. Participants who chose bug killing had the highest scores on a scale measuring sadistic impulses, just as the researchers predicted. The more sadistic the participant was, the more likely he or she was to choose bug killing over the other options, even when their scores on Dark Triad measures, fear of bugs, and sensitivity to disgust were taken into account. Participants with high levels of sadism who chose to kill bugs reported taking significantly greater pleasure in the task than those who chose another task, and their pleasure seemed to correlate with the number of bugs they killed, suggesting that sadistic behavior may hold some sort of reward value for those participants. And a second study revealed that, of the participants who rated high on one of the “dark” personality traits, only sadists chose to intensify blasts of white noise directed at an innocent opponent when they realized the opponent wouldn’t fight back. They were also the only ones willing to expend additional time and energy to be able to blast the innocent opponent with the noise. Together, these results suggest that sadists possess an intrinsic motivation to inflict suffering on innocent others, even at a personal cost - a motivation that is absent from the other dark personality traits. The researchers hope that these new findings will help to broaden people’s view of sadism as an aspect of personality that manifests in everyday life, helping to dispel the notion that sadism is limited to sexual deviants and criminals. Buckels and colleagues are continuing to investigate everyday sadism, including its role in online trolling behavior. “Trolling culture is unique in that it explicitly celebrates sadistic pleasure, or ‘lulz,’” says Buckels. “It is, perhaps, not surprising then that sadists gravitate toward those activities.” And they’re also exploring vicarious forms of sadism, such as enjoying cruelty in movies, video games, and sports. The researchers believe their findings have the potential to inform research and policy on domestic abuse, bullying, animal abuse, and cases of military and police brutality. “It is such situations that sadistic individuals may exploit for personal pleasure,” says Buckels. “Denying the dark side of personality will not help when managing people in these contexts.”
Thank you for your very detailed comment. I have been at the receiving end of some of this from the “high functioning “ I am then seen as the highly strung one and stuck not having gotten over it. Workplace bullying.
Oh yes, the instinct to cover up or not split on someone is so amazingly strong, I remember being told at 8 never to tell or split on someone, it made such a deep and abiding impression that many years later I was blamed for damaging something that the other person had damaged and left me to carry the blame, I couldn't split on the person who damaged the item but shortly afterwards I stopped seeing that person, we did become friends again, many years later, when we met again and she apologised for treating me badly when we were younger. Another cover-up was The Post Office, there was a lot of protection of the institution going on there, even to the extent that people lost everything, people went to jail and people committed suicide rather than let the truth out and bring The Post Office into disrepute, the head of The Post Office Paula Venables was a member of the Clergy too I believe.
We all take on the morals that we live by all our lives and it is a credit to you that you never betrayed your own belief in your standards! I was "used" (I say that with reservation as I was certainly complicit),when I was 9 and when I was 12/13: different people, one15, one 38 in two separate counties! The experiences did no harm and I maintained the knowledge and I've guarded it as sacrosanct all these 60+ years because I knew that by my own standards, it was the honorable thing to do and I knew too that recollection brought/brings on a wicked little smirk.
Hello Piers- it’s good that you are doing. Just discovered your channel yesterday. I’m posting a comment here as a way of sharing information following watching your older video on trying to give oneself a bit of head space away from heavy news that many of us get stuck into. I read how others enjoy movies like Railway Children. I can add audio books or reading young adult fiction like Philip Pulman. Libraries have free apps. Also a brilliant funny and serious guy- Blindboy Podcast. He also was part of The Rubber Bandits. - older stuff on TH-cam. English men- might take a while to get into Blindboy- but honestly I think those commenting on Piers- it will be something that will be interesting. Last thing, I hear all the shut down stuff and the impact on all. I speak up, I have always done so- The follow up to that involves being described in a psychiatric report I needed to get following heavy duty workplace bullying as have issues with emotional regulation- that would be as I speak with the Doctor- not how I interact in everyday life.
Thank you so much for these insights. Observations #1 thru #4 and maybe #5 as well help to explain the ongoing refusal of Mormon leaders to address known CA among LDS line leaders and membership. The church turns such matters over to its lawyers-- who of course are guided by Duty of Care morality.
This is a very good and important point. It can be very Orwellian or Kafkaesque only it is all terribly real and not in a novel at all. One thing people can do when someone threatens to blow the whistle and destroy the false image of the company and expose the rot is say "Are you sure about this?" "Is this really what you want to do?" - or "Please consider this" or "have you really thought this through and all the consequences for everyone" - such questions are designed to throw the whistle blower off balance and make them doubt themselves. There is also the point that office bullies and abusers are often smart enough to make the HR department beholden to them if they can or come to some "understanding" with them.
Pick any scandal you want it's always the same, the higher ups, the management etc who are usually uni educated etc, it's always the same, say nothing, don't rock the boat. Be that child abuse, Hillsborough, grefell tower, post office, Lucy let by. Always the same. Who even remembers the same issues in Birmingham children's homes decades ago? The report into that was literally pulped, all involved went on to bigger better jobs.......I don't vote, don't do religion or any other group think. That's why.
What is extraordinary is John Smyth’s name did not come up at IICSA. Welby represented the Church of England and was interviewed at the inquiry in 2018. To think he sat there knowing what he knew about Smyth and kept quiet. Well done to Ian Hislop for confronting Welby and telling him the truth when they met at the British Museum last week after Welby had resigned.
In terms of traumatic reenactment it is clear that in a sexual sado-masocist way certain boarding school events can become re-enacted. The song "Bang goes the knighthood" by The Divine Comedy off the album of the same name is about a supposedly happily married aristocratic pillar of the British Establishment visiting a prostitute to be beaten and whipped in order to try and mentally resolve the corporal punishment he received and possibly dished out in boarding school. If someone who was beaten at school beats innocent children as an adult this in no way excuses their behaviour but it does offer a window of understanding of the type of psychological patterns that can develop. And the more we understand about this horrendous type of behaviour the more we can produce an effective practical strategy to make sure it does not happen at boarding schools or church camps or indeed anywhere else.
Something about institutions never imploding and their ways out of this and around it. There is usually an underlying arrogance, even though that may never be recognised. I am a person who asks questions, to put it mildly that has not served me well. My motivation was on the work and the people we with with/for.
Justin Welby states that he thought the police were dealing with the issue. Moreover, Winchester School students were victims. How and when did the police investigate the matter and what role does Winchester play in this dreadful saga?
Hi @JonathanRedden-wh6un, a great point. According to the Guardian from 2019: "An unpublished report commissioned by the Iwerne Trust in 1982 described “horrific” beatings of teenage boys, sometimes until they bled. But neither the college nor the trust reported Smyth to the police. Instead, Winchester’s headmaster asked Smyth never again to enter the college or contact its pupils." It sounds like the school didn't involve the police. www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/justin-welby-church-scrutiny-sadistic-christian-camp?bcmt=1
Welby and others have said that they were informed that the police had been informed about Smythe, and so they felt it was out of their hands. I find this hard to believe. They could not have failed to notice that no news of Smith being arrested or put on trial had occurred.
It's just plain cowadis, shame, and the realisation that some of these wicked people have a nice side to their personality. That's what draws people in. Fear is a powerful emotion. Judgment day is coming, if not on this side of eternity, definatly on the yon side. We all like to belive there is a heaven, well i belive what the bible teaches, there is also a real hell. Comments sent from Darlington England.
I followed safeguarding training and took my concerns ( sexual abuse ) to the management… this was in a C of E school . Nothing was done …. Years later a pupil made a complaint, police got involved … two week trial … there was a huge cover up culture . The pupil ended up committing suicide 😢
I have made several attempts to post a comment here but none of them have got the comment published. I have tried altering terms that I suspect TH-cam does not like, even though you have been allowed to use them in your video and at least one comment published here has used one of those terms. I have also tried breaking the comment up into parts. I am now giving up. This comment may get published, but that will not help me know what to do to get TH-cam to publish the comment I want it to publish. I want you to be aware that people like me are having this problem in trying to comment on your video, so this is my attempt to do that.
There is far too much censorship of us expressing ourselves in our traditional way, with our own 2000 year evolved language, in the terms of us all, "the common man". People who are offended in this century, wake in the mornings wanting to find something every day to be offended by!! I WILL NOT pander to their faux "sensitivities" It is fake hypocricy!!!
Finally, a real analysis of how British society works. Are you of Irish ancestry ? If abuse is hidden and kept secret, the victim has no choice but to enact it to get it out of their system. That's how it continues. But no one talks about the origins and source of sexual and physical abuse in British society and culture. Why not ?
The answer to the title is simply because by some crazy weird Christian math, covering up crimes is better than bringing justice to a situation. It's almost as though their little goddington can't take care of his "one true" church.
@jenna2431. Another part to that is for some connection to our spiritual part is almost instinctive, it probably found some format into that in childhood through organised religion. We can drop away what doesn’t serve us. Richard Schwartz- Internal Family Systems. Very interesting how he talks about the intangible self being central. It’s a deep and strong part to us all. I would like if there were some way to promote awareness of this and nurturing of this from childhood. It is a bedrock that belongs neither to religion nor psychology. Creativity comes to mind.
The Trust which ran the camps was not part of the Church of England. It was more part of the Public School system. The Public Schools eventually intervened to have these camps shut down. Neither the Church of England, nor Justin Welby was responsible for running these camps, nor for the abuse, however, certain factions in the Church wanted him out, so the Government instructed him to state that the Church was responsible and to resign. I expect that they made it worth his while! Justin Welby is an Old Etonian, a good establishment man - he does as the establishment tells him! He knows on which side his bread is buttered!
Well, precisely!! Whilst the Church may not be blameless in this horror, It does not, in my view, bear primary responsibility. Where were these boys' schoolmasters in all this? They are the people who interact daily with the boys. If these boys were being beaten within an inch of their lives, as per the various reports, they will have been in constant intense pain and unable to focus on their work; furthermore, the damage and bruising will have been all too obvious in communal changing / showering situations, normal at the time. I attended a boys' secondary school in the 60s; our PE staff - stern men, but deeply caring for their charges - would have been on to anything like this in a flash.
I totally agree with your first part of analysis but not the second. It would be up to the legal advice of the archbishops office to acknowledge responsibility. If this was done as you say then the legal advice was at fault not the archbishop.
@ I doubt if any legal advice was involved. As a matter of objective fact, the camps were not run by the Church of England. Nor is the Archbishop the “Head” of the Church of England. There are two Primates who have joint leadership in the Church of England, the Archbishops of Canterbury and of York. Even though the Archbishop of Canterbury is the more senior, in legal terms, he is not the “Head” of the Church of England. Clearly, this was a purely political decision. There may have been some legal input. Justin Welby may have been advised that, if he chose to adopt the fiction that these camps were run by the Church of England (even though they were not) and that he was, in some say, a sort of Chief Executive of the Church of England (which he was not) then, if he were to resign on the “buck stops with me” principle, denying all personal involvement and responsibility, he would be quite safe. In some ways, by resigning on this highly ethical and detached principle, he would serve to distance himself from his own personal involvement in running the camps. Indeed, on one occasion, if reports are to be believed, he actually shared a bunk room with John Smyth. However, he did not resign as Archbishop of Canterbury because of any personal involvement which he might have had in respect of the camps - he resigned on exactly the other principle, that he had no personal responsibility, only an official, detached, responsibility on “the buck stops with me principle”. It seems clear enough that all of this is a purely political exercise. A fuss was being made. The Government had to be seen to be doing something. So it instructed the Archbishop of Canterbury to resign.
@@Mark3ABE If these "Christian boys' camps" harboured abuse, I wonder if it would be appropriate for some sort of enquiry to take a look at the affairs of similar boys' organisations from around the same time ? I'm thinking Pathfinders, Boy Covenanters, the Boys' Brigade and the Crusaders' Union (now Urban Saints) ???? There may be others of which I haven't heard.
George Carlin once quipped about those defending pedos "When Jesus said Suffer The Little Children to Come Unto Me, that's not what he had in mind!" Those in authority over pedos defend and cover up for the prime reason of Image! Image! Image!!
13 minutes of excusing the cover-up. You forgot one: Voyeurism. This crime is allowed to fester because the people involved LIKE it. Any secreted inclinations are acted out by another and becomes oddly gratifying. All they need do is imagine the acts. Put a stop to it? And lose vicarious entertainment? Oh heavens no.
Hi have you always worn a beard ? I just wonder what you would look like without it , much younger I think , I loved your thoughts on this matter , thank you ,so many must have known yet nothing was done ,why did they all keep quiet?
My thoughts are is Starmer involved. It was I understand reported to the Met who took it to CPS. The CPS took no action. Was S involved at any point as he gave Saville a free pass.
A vast difference between "covering up" and/or "turning a blind eye". Welby, as much as I dislike what he has done to The Church Of ENGLAND! It is not the job of the clergy to join in with the rest of the UKs morbid obsession of being a spy, being an accuser; being a judge and executioner in relation to the morals of their neighbours.. He should have stood his ground and NOT resigned!! We do not know if he had private words with others involved but his job was NOT to play to the media gallery or to the yearnings of the vile "thought and woke police!!" They can do their job and as a Bishop, his duty is not only to G - d but to the unity of the church!! DO any of us know what our hallowed politicians get up to behind closed doors?? Are they ALL paragons of virtue with their penchants for forgetting and many a swift half pint?? We know that there are an hell of a lot of coppers who are MOST reprehensible: so in view of human frailty in the sight of G - d or their fellows, I believe that Welby has done NO WRONG as such. Slow or perhaps not forceful enough but that is a matter for his actions behind closed doors NOT for us or the media demand a right to know or to judge sans knowledge (Because the media get rich from slinging the mud wherever and whenever possible!!!)! YES!! I too have been a victim of the media and its sly narratives! I for one am impious enough to say that I would forgive Welby the small indiscretion of what he might see as his own failings in life. Do unto others as thou wouldst have done unto thyself!! and no, I am no saint, no bible basher, not educated but I do see what this country has become as I return from 33 years in foreign parts Something less and less desirable by the day!!!
Groan. What part of over 100 children/boys, including his son, brutalised by the depraved savage did you miss? They knew but rather than fire him or report his criminal activity to the police, they moved him to another country. He was arrested in one, then moved to another. Welby knew. Others knew but did nothing to prevent further brutality. Your comment utterly beggars belief. Historical crimes were committed against innocent children. I'm glad the indifference of bishops has been exposed.
@@manichairdo9265 Your 21st century faux piety and judgement that seems to know more facts than the media can uncover defies further comment!! I think that historic grizzling is, more often than not, just to put the pennies of some purse or other within reach! It is all the "New British" culture of woke greed, malicious spite and malice!!!
In my experience the people Who rose to the top in most institutions tend to be the people Who are so systemetised that they'll defend the institution instead of doing what's right.
Best commentary I've heard on this subject.
Some chat is made up sensationalist stuff.
Thank you for this Piers. During your talk I think you hit a number of very important nails on the head. What I would add is that there is probably also a social class thing go on. The Anglican and Evangelical and Charismatic church movements (all of which have a complicated symbiosis) tend to be dominated both in terms of leadership and congregation by people (usually men) from aristocratic or middle class backgrounds. This apparently goes right the way back to the latter eighteenth century with the industrial and agricultural revolutions and people leaving the land and going to work in factories in towns and there not being enough of a robust church network there to spiritually support them in their new lives. People from wealthy backgrounds sometimes think they themselves should decide what rules they follow rather than the police simply because they are rich and "superior". It is something Inspector Morse always says to Lewis at the end of each murder case "They (some academic or aristocratic figure) thought they could get away with it - didn't they. But we got them" The police or "plods", as some rich people refer to them as, are often stereotyped as coming from working class backgrounds. There is a certain type of aristocrat or rich person who does not - as they see it - want a grubby working class "plod" telling them what to do. To say the least this is a highly arrogant and abusive attitude but it can be there. This ties in with the abusive elitism of many boarding schools. Thus the aristocratic or certainly wealthy social status Anglican church does not want a load of working class police officers taking over and very probably arresting people and putting them in prison. Social services (another vital service when it comes to sexual abuse and sadistic corporal punishment being humanely dealt with) is often viewed in the same way. This class arrogance which I think does linger in some aspects of the Anglican church can also be fortified with a kind of spiritual arrogance. We are the church. We are the men (and far too rarely women) of God. We are in touch with God. We know what is best. We don't want some grubby humanist association like the police or social workers telling us what to do in our holy house. This may not effect Welby personally but this sort of arrogance just like the class arrogance can be there and it is astounding. It isn't even proper Christianity (since this admits that we are all - not matter how many pennies are in our pockets - or how many fancy Bishops hats we have) a group of very sick sinners who desperately need the help of Jesus. But you are right Piers to point out that sometimes it isn't the case of there being an elephant in the room that no-one has seen yet. Sometimes there can be a whole herd of elephants in a room that nobody is going to mention because no-one else is mentioning them and people are terrified by what might happen if they do. No that the fear is an excuse.
Even more important to recognise the role of independent quality journalism. Bringing what you say slong the same lines I can connect this to the treatment of Julian Assange
@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 You are absolutely right about the journalism and I think very much of the journalistic team on channel 4. I suspect on issues such as this channel 4 news can more lead the way as it is less establishment than the BBC. What those journalists discovered and highlighted was something truly truly ugly and appalling. I remember how they confronted John Smyth and he tried to dismiss them like he was some sort of Lord of the Manor. I will never forget the sinister laughter of his wife in the background either. I think with her it may have been the highly complicated situation where she was both victim but also co-abuser at the same time. Sometimes in these situations there can be these hideous combinations. At the end of the day there was absolutely no excuse for her behaviour either. She would write the "sins" of Smyths son in a black book that Smyth would examine when he came home. He would then use what she wrote to structure the caning regime that went on in the garden shed. However frightening her husband was her first duty as a parent was to her children.
@richardrickford3028
Richard, I agree with you. Absolutely.
Keeping my response short, shooting for a publish here. Wishing you well
Yes!i taught at a school where tbere were repeated complaints about emotional abuse ftom a teacher but in spite of parents' complaints and concern nothinv was done..cover up supreme!
Emotional abuse?? What bollox! a slap round the head and get told to grow up and be a man never did any of us any harm!! Oh how I despise these weak wet , influencing wokes!!!
Most of the time, we try to avoid inflicting pain on others - when we do hurt someone, we typically experience guilt, remorse, or other feelings of distress. But for some, cruelty can be pleasurable, even exciting. New research suggests that this kind of everyday sadism is real and more common than we might think.
Two studies led by psychological scientist Erin Buckels of the University of British Columbia revealed that people who score high on a measure of sadism seem to derive pleasure from behaviors that hurt others, and are even willing to expend extra effort to make someone else suffer.
The new findings are published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science.
“Some find it hard to reconcile sadism with the concept of ‘normal’ psychological functioning, but our findings show that sadistic tendencies among otherwise well-adjusted people must be acknowledged,” says Buckels. “These people aren’t necessarily serial killers or sexual deviants but they gain some emotional benefit in causing or simply observing others’ suffering.”
Based on their previous work on the “Dark Triad” of personality, Buckels and colleagues Delroy Paulhus of the University of British Columbia and Daniel Jones of the University of Texas El Paso surmised that sadism is a distinct aspect of personality that joins with three others - psychopathy, narcissism, and Machiavellianism - to form a “Dark Tetrad” of personality traits.
To test their hypothesis, they decided to examine everyday sadism under controlled laboratory conditions. They recruited 71 participants to take part in a study on “personality and tolerance for challenging jobs.” Participants were asked to choose among several unpleasant tasks: killing bugs, helping the experimenter kill bugs, cleaning dirty toilets, or enduring pain from ice water.
Participants who chose bug killing were shown the bug-crunching machine: a modified coffee grinder that produced a distinct crunching sound so as to maximize the gruesomeness of the task. Nearby were cups containing live pill bugs, each cup labeled with the bug’s name: Muffin, Ike, and Tootsie.
The participant’s job was to drop the bugs into the machine, force down the cover, and “grind them up.” The participants didn’t know that a barrier actually prevented the bugs from being ground up and that no bugs were harmed in the experiment.
Of the 71 participants, 12.7% chose the pain-tolerance task, 33.8% chose the toilet-cleaning task, 26.8% chose to help kill bugs, and 26.8% chose to kill bugs.
Participants who chose bug killing had the highest scores on a scale measuring sadistic impulses, just as the researchers predicted. The more sadistic the participant was, the more likely he or she was to choose bug killing over the other options, even when their scores on Dark Triad measures, fear of bugs, and sensitivity to disgust were taken into account.
Participants with high levels of sadism who chose to kill bugs reported taking significantly greater pleasure in the task than those who chose another task, and their pleasure seemed to correlate with the number of bugs they killed, suggesting that sadistic behavior may hold some sort of reward value for those participants.
And a second study revealed that, of the participants who rated high on one of the “dark” personality traits, only sadists chose to intensify blasts of white noise directed at an innocent opponent when they realized the opponent wouldn’t fight back. They were also the only ones willing to expend additional time and energy to be able to blast the innocent opponent with the noise.
Together, these results suggest that sadists possess an intrinsic motivation to inflict suffering on innocent others, even at a personal cost - a motivation that is absent from the other dark personality traits.
The researchers hope that these new findings will help to broaden people’s view of sadism as an aspect of personality that manifests in everyday life, helping to dispel the notion that sadism is limited to sexual deviants and criminals.
Buckels and colleagues are continuing to investigate everyday sadism, including its role in online trolling behavior.
“Trolling culture is unique in that it explicitly celebrates sadistic pleasure, or ‘lulz,’” says Buckels. “It is, perhaps, not surprising then that sadists gravitate toward those activities.”
And they’re also exploring vicarious forms of sadism, such as enjoying cruelty in movies, video games, and sports.
The researchers believe their findings have the potential to inform research and policy on domestic abuse, bullying, animal abuse, and cases of military and police brutality.
“It is such situations that sadistic individuals may exploit for personal pleasure,” says Buckels. “Denying the dark side of personality will not help when managing people in these contexts.”
Thank you for your very detailed comment. I have been at the receiving end of some of this from the “high functioning “
I am then seen as the highly strung one and stuck not having gotten over it. Workplace bullying.
Thank you for such a detailed response. That's really fascinating. I will check that research out. Take care, Piers
@@pierscross thank you.
Oh yes, the instinct to cover up or not split on someone is so amazingly strong, I remember being told at 8 never to tell or split on someone, it made such a deep and abiding impression that many years later I was blamed for damaging something that the other person had damaged and left me to carry the blame, I couldn't split on the person who damaged the item but shortly afterwards I stopped seeing that person, we did become friends again, many years later, when we met again and she apologised for treating me badly when we were younger.
Another cover-up was The Post Office, there was a lot of protection of the institution going on there, even to the extent that people lost everything, people went to jail and people committed suicide rather than let the truth out and bring The Post Office into disrepute, the head of The Post Office Paula Venables was a member of the Clergy too I believe.
We all take on the morals that we live by all our lives and it is a credit to you that you never betrayed your own belief in your standards!
I was "used" (I say that with reservation as I was certainly complicit),when I was 9 and when I was 12/13: different people, one15, one 38 in two separate counties! The experiences did no harm and I maintained the knowledge and I've guarded it as sacrosanct all these 60+ years because I knew that by my own standards, it was the honorable thing to do and I knew too that recollection brought/brings on a wicked little smirk.
Hello Piers- it’s good that you are doing. Just discovered your channel yesterday. I’m posting a comment here as a way of sharing information following watching your older video on trying to give oneself a bit of head space away from heavy news that many of us get stuck into. I read how others enjoy movies like Railway Children. I can add audio books or reading young adult fiction like Philip Pulman. Libraries have free apps. Also a brilliant funny and serious guy- Blindboy Podcast. He also was part of The Rubber Bandits. - older stuff on TH-cam. English men- might take a while to get into Blindboy- but honestly I think those commenting on Piers- it will be something that will be interesting. Last thing, I hear all the shut down stuff and the impact on all. I speak up, I have always done so- The follow up to that involves being described in a psychiatric report I needed to get following heavy duty workplace bullying as have issues with emotional regulation- that would be as I speak with the Doctor- not how I interact in everyday life.
Thank you so much for these insights. Observations #1 thru #4 and maybe #5 as well help to explain the ongoing refusal of Mormon leaders to address known CA among LDS line leaders and membership. The church turns such matters over to its lawyers-- who of course are guided by Duty of Care morality.
The HR department always look after the business over the individual victim.
This is a very good and important point. It can be very Orwellian or Kafkaesque only it is all terribly real and not in a novel at all. One thing people can do when someone threatens to blow the whistle and destroy the false image of the company and expose the rot is say "Are you sure about this?" "Is this really what you want to do?" - or "Please consider this" or "have you really thought this through and all the consequences for everyone" - such questions are designed to throw the whistle blower off balance and make them doubt themselves. There is also the point that office bullies and abusers are often smart enough to make the HR department beholden to them if they can or come to some "understanding" with them.
Pick any scandal you want it's always the same, the higher ups, the management etc who are usually uni educated etc, it's always the same, say nothing, don't rock the boat. Be that child abuse, Hillsborough, grefell tower, post office, Lucy let by. Always the same. Who even remembers the same issues in Birmingham children's homes decades ago? The report into that was literally pulped, all involved went on to bigger better jobs.......I don't vote, don't do religion or any other group think. That's why.
What is extraordinary is John Smyth’s name did not come up at IICSA. Welby represented the Church of England and was interviewed at the inquiry in 2018. To think he sat there knowing what he knew about Smyth and kept quiet. Well done to Ian Hislop for
confronting Welby and telling him the truth when they met at the British Museum last week after Welby had resigned.
In terms of traumatic reenactment it is clear that in a sexual sado-masocist way certain boarding school events can become re-enacted. The song "Bang goes the knighthood" by The Divine Comedy off the album of the same name is about a supposedly happily married aristocratic pillar of the British Establishment visiting a prostitute to be beaten and whipped in order to try and mentally resolve the corporal punishment he received and possibly dished out in boarding school. If someone who was beaten at school beats innocent children as an adult this in no way excuses their behaviour but it does offer a window of understanding of the type of psychological patterns that can develop. And the more we understand about this horrendous type of behaviour the more we can produce an effective practical strategy to make sure it does not happen at boarding schools or church camps or indeed anywhere else.
Something about institutions never imploding and their ways out of this and around it. There is usually an underlying arrogance, even though that may never be recognised. I am a person who asks questions, to put it mildly that has not served me well. My motivation was on the work and the people we with with/for.
His son also admits his father abuses. Wolves in sheep's clothing is apt description.
Justin Welby states that he thought the police were dealing with the issue. Moreover, Winchester School students were victims. How and when did the police investigate the matter and what role does Winchester play in this dreadful saga?
Hi @JonathanRedden-wh6un, a great point. According to the Guardian from 2019: "An unpublished report commissioned by the Iwerne Trust in 1982 described “horrific” beatings of teenage boys, sometimes until they bled. But neither the college nor the trust reported Smyth to the police. Instead, Winchester’s headmaster asked Smyth never again to enter the college or contact its pupils." It sounds like the school didn't involve the police. www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/justin-welby-church-scrutiny-sadistic-christian-camp?bcmt=1
Welby and others have said that they were informed that the police had been informed about Smythe, and so they felt it was out of their hands. I find this hard to believe. They could not have failed to notice that no news of Smith being arrested or put on trial had occurred.
Fascinating, thank you Piers.
You never speak out when you are part of a cult!
It's just plain cowadis, shame, and the realisation that some of these wicked people have a nice side to their personality. That's what draws people in. Fear is a powerful emotion. Judgment day is coming, if not on this side of eternity, definatly on the yon side. We all like to belive there is a heaven, well i belive what the bible teaches, there is also a real hell. Comments sent from Darlington England.
I followed safeguarding training and took my concerns ( sexual abuse ) to the management… this was in a C of E school .
Nothing was done …. Years later a pupil made a complaint, police got involved … two week trial … there was a huge cover up culture .
The pupil ended up committing suicide 😢
I have made several attempts to post a comment here but none of them have got the comment published. I have tried altering terms that I suspect TH-cam does not like, even though you have been allowed to use them in your video and at least one comment published here has used one of those terms. I have also tried breaking the comment up into parts. I am now giving up. This comment may get published, but that will not help me know what to do to get TH-cam to publish the comment I want it to publish. I want you to be aware that people like me are having this problem in trying to comment on your video, so this is my attempt to do that.
There is far too much censorship of us expressing ourselves in our traditional way, with our own 2000 year evolved language, in the terms of us all, "the common man". People who are offended in this century, wake in the mornings wanting to find something every day to be offended by!! I WILL NOT pander to their faux "sensitivities" It is fake hypocricy!!!
@dfordiligence2398
Hello, I have had this too, like you went at various replacement replies. Other YT platforms, recently Channel 4 Smyth.
@dfordiligence2398 I experience the block also
He didn't, get your facts, not from the media
Dawkins and Fry has summed up Religion in a perfect way .. Don't go anywhere near it .
Finally, a real analysis of how British society works. Are you of Irish ancestry ? If abuse is hidden and kept secret, the victim has no choice but to enact it to get it out of their system. That's how it continues. But no one talks about the origins and source of sexual and physical abuse in British society and culture. Why not ?
The answer to the title is simply because by some crazy weird Christian math, covering up crimes is better than bringing justice to a situation. It's almost as though their little goddington can't take care of his "one true" church.
@jenna2431. Another part to that is for some connection to our spiritual part is almost instinctive, it probably found some format into that in childhood through organised religion. We can drop away what doesn’t serve us. Richard Schwartz- Internal
Family Systems. Very interesting how he talks about the intangible self being central. It’s a deep and strong part to us all. I would like if there were some way to promote awareness of this and nurturing of this from childhood. It is a bedrock that belongs neither to religion nor psychology.
Creativity comes to mind.
The Trust which ran the camps was not part of the Church of England. It was more part of the Public School system. The Public Schools eventually intervened to have these camps shut down. Neither the Church of England, nor Justin Welby was responsible for running these camps, nor for the abuse, however, certain factions in the Church wanted him out, so the Government instructed him to state that the Church was responsible and to resign. I expect that they made it worth his while! Justin Welby is an Old Etonian, a good establishment man - he does as the establishment tells him! He knows on which side his bread is buttered!
Well, precisely!! Whilst the Church may not be blameless in this horror, It does not, in my view, bear primary responsibility. Where were these boys' schoolmasters in all this? They are the people who interact daily with the boys. If these boys were being beaten within an inch of their lives, as per the various reports, they will have been in constant intense pain and unable to focus on their work; furthermore, the damage and bruising will have been all too obvious in communal changing / showering situations, normal at the time. I attended a boys' secondary school in the 60s; our PE staff - stern men, but deeply caring for their charges - would have been on to anything like this in a flash.
I totally agree with your first part of analysis but not the second. It would be up to the legal advice of the archbishops office to acknowledge responsibility. If this was done as you say then the legal advice was at fault not the archbishop.
@@jamesgale2147 Very fair point.
@ I doubt if any legal advice was involved. As a matter of objective fact, the camps were not run by the Church of England. Nor is the Archbishop the “Head” of the Church of England. There are two Primates who have joint leadership in the Church of England, the Archbishops of Canterbury and of York. Even though the Archbishop of Canterbury is the more senior, in legal terms, he is not the “Head” of the Church of England. Clearly, this was a purely political decision. There may have been some legal input. Justin Welby may have been advised that, if he chose to adopt the fiction that these camps were run by the Church of England (even though they were not) and that he was, in some say, a sort of Chief Executive of the Church of England (which he was not) then, if he were to resign on the “buck stops with me” principle, denying all personal involvement and responsibility, he would be quite safe. In some ways, by resigning on this highly ethical and detached principle, he would serve to distance himself from his own personal involvement in running the camps. Indeed, on one occasion, if reports are to be believed, he actually shared a bunk room with John Smyth. However, he did not resign as Archbishop of Canterbury because of any personal involvement which he might have had in respect of the camps - he resigned on exactly the other principle, that he had no personal responsibility, only an official, detached, responsibility on “the buck stops with me principle”. It seems clear enough that all of this is a purely political exercise. A fuss was being made. The Government had to be seen to be doing something. So it instructed the Archbishop of Canterbury to resign.
@@Mark3ABE If these "Christian boys' camps" harboured abuse, I wonder if it would be appropriate for some sort of enquiry to take a look at the affairs of similar boys' organisations from around the same time ? I'm thinking Pathfinders, Boy Covenanters, the Boys' Brigade and the Crusaders' Union (now Urban Saints) ???? There may be others of which I haven't heard.
George Carlin once quipped about those defending pedos "When Jesus said Suffer The Little Children to Come Unto Me, that's not what he had in mind!" Those in authority over pedos defend and cover up for the prime reason of Image! Image! Image!!
We have been traumatise regardless of the culture we are born into it’s like cult programming.
13 minutes of excusing the cover-up. You forgot one: Voyeurism. This crime is allowed to fester because the people involved LIKE it. Any secreted inclinations are acted out by another and becomes oddly gratifying. All they need do is imagine the acts. Put a stop to it? And lose vicarious entertainment? Oh heavens no.
Hi have you always worn a beard ? I just wonder what you would look like without it , much younger
I think , I loved your thoughts on this matter , thank you ,so many must have known yet nothing was done ,why did they all keep quiet?
My thoughts are is Starmer involved. It was I understand reported to the Met who took it to CPS. The CPS took no action. Was S involved at any point as he gave Saville a free pass.
It's not British culture it might be the churches culture and private schools and colleges 😢.
It was easier.
A vast difference between "covering up" and/or "turning a blind eye". Welby, as much as I dislike what he has done to The Church Of ENGLAND! It is not the job of the clergy to join in with the rest of the UKs morbid obsession of being a spy, being an accuser; being a judge and executioner in relation to the morals of their neighbours.. He should have stood his ground and NOT resigned!! We do not know if he had private words with others involved but his job was NOT to play to the media gallery or to the yearnings of the vile "thought and woke police!!" They can do their job and as a Bishop, his duty is not only to G - d but to the unity of the church!! DO any of us know what our hallowed politicians get up to behind closed doors?? Are they ALL paragons of virtue with their penchants for forgetting and many a swift half pint?? We know that there are an hell of a lot of coppers who are MOST reprehensible: so in view of human frailty in the sight of G - d or their fellows, I believe that Welby has done NO WRONG as such. Slow or perhaps not forceful enough but that is a matter for his actions behind closed doors NOT for us or the media demand a right to know or to judge sans knowledge (Because the media get rich from slinging the mud wherever and whenever possible!!!)! YES!! I too have been a victim of the media and its sly narratives! I for one am impious enough to say that I would forgive Welby the small indiscretion of what he might see as his own failings in life. Do unto others as thou wouldst have done unto thyself!! and no, I am no saint, no bible basher, not educated but I do see what this country has become as I return from 33 years in foreign parts Something less and less desirable by the day!!!
Groan. What part of over 100 children/boys, including his son, brutalised by the depraved savage did you miss? They knew but rather than fire him or report his criminal activity to the police, they moved him to another country. He was arrested in one, then moved to another. Welby knew. Others knew but did nothing to prevent further brutality.
Your comment utterly beggars belief. Historical crimes were committed against innocent children.
I'm glad the indifference of bishops has been exposed.
@@manichairdo9265 Your 21st century faux piety and judgement that seems to know more facts than the media can uncover defies further comment!! I think that historic grizzling is, more often than not, just to put the pennies of some purse or other within reach! It is all the "New British" culture of woke greed, malicious spite and malice!!!
This is a good example of traditional British morality. And so the problem will go on... and on...