For me JRPG is just about the provenance of the rpg. The aesthetic, turn base vs real time action arent what defined a jrpg. Elden ring for me is a Western styled JRPG with an open world action combat system
The absolute origin of the jrpg can be found in wizardry and ultima as well as d&d and the the jrpg as a whole began with both Enix of Square Enix for dragon Quest and Nihon Falcom with both dragon slayer pre legend of heroes and the YS series there where visual novels and point and click adventures before both but nothing as complex as dragon quest and I believe both dragon quest and dragon slayer debuted on the MSX micro computer but I’m not sure if you want a more complete history of jrpgs I know clan of the grey wolf and Mr Gentlemen both did a major spread on the origin especially mr gentleman as far as I know his spans multiple videos by release year and might be still ongoing?
@cyb3r kitsun3 jrpgs are at this point still a style. If a dev made the original dragon quest pixel for pixel line for line but changed the character names a bit, it would still be a JRPG, no matter where the dev is from. I'm not into wine or cars so i can't speak on those things
I never really put too much thought into this question, because I just kind of know what a JRPG is whenever I see it. and when you start putting clear definitions on what a game is, or should or shouldn’t be, it really hamstrings creativity. On one hand, I like how Japanese developers are opening up to western ideas but on the other hand, I really do miss the older style of JRPGs, with a linear story, world maps, cute encounters, and not too much fluff.
I don’t know man, people keep marginalizing FFXVI as a JRPG, and I don’t see it. No anime stylization, no turn-based combat with open zone progression, no party member command system, a dark medieval fantasy story, so many JRPG tropes this game does not have yet people STILL keep calling it one. I mean come on, if the definition is this loose then I don’t understand why no one calls Elden Ring a JRPG
@@babarrett1 Because Square Enix made its name as the grandfather of the genre and From Software games are so uniquely identifiable that it needs its own sub-term: the Soulsbourne
@@viledisturbance1869 If that's coming from a place of thinking JRPGs need to be rigidly traditional, then Sega is the only big name publisher unashamed of its JRPG library. The main difference I can identify from their more Western counterparts is that in that case you affect the story while in JRPGs it's vice versa. That encompasses everything from very traditional games like Persona and Pokemon, but also more action oriented and realistic games like FF VII Remake and recent Yakuzas, showing that artists who're known for a more anime style like Nomura can adapt them for a photorealistic world
@@viledisturbance1869 When did I say I played it? I’m just trying to provide the perspective of those who might not know better since it’s still called Final Fantasy. What does that bring forth images of, especially knowing Yoshi-P is otherwise known for XIV?
I agree with all 5 points. I don't think this will be a controversial video, all points you made definitely are important to distinguish an JRPG from a WRPG.
Not controversial, but problematic. The definition requires too many qualifiers and too many definitions within the definition. I'm trying to communicate effectively. Instead I have to say "with rare exceptions" and "most of the time." Then I have to define terms that define the term. Anime style? What's that to someone who isn't familiar with anime? Well, let's watch this video so we can talk about a game, or I could just show you a video of the game. There's also a couple of his points I'd push back on. I'd say FF is probably the most recognizable franchise by the masses. It's not anime style in some ways. It's not turn-based.most of the time. It's not always linear. FF XV is 100% open world. I spent very little time in the car. I was exploring. We had different experiences because of its open world structure. The problem with attempting to pin down the term JRPG, is that there's only one definition that you can't really poke holes in, but it's also not useful.
@@airdrighmor1439 ehhhh Pokemon is way more recognizable than Final Fantasy by the masses. Waaaaaay more. I would say the most controversial bit is his claim about social features and relegating them largely to Persona, even though he mentioned multiple jrpgs in the video that have extensive social features.
@@badlatency9979 agreed that Pokemon is more recognizable. But as a JRPG? I would say not. I've heard several Pokemon fanatics criticize JRPGs as weeb trash. Pokemon is it's own thing.
@@airdrighmor1439 the fanatics may kick and scream about it, but it's as much weeb trash as any other jrpg. It's even a full on anime for crying out loud.
Great video. Visuals and storytelling are the biggest indicators for me of a JRPG. Its why i mostly prefer them over WRPGs. Though they tend to lack the character choice of western rpgs, they focus more on likeable characters and companions. The action also feels more fantastical than the more grounded western approach. They also aren't as prudish with female designs as the west are.
I absolutely love this video! From the editing to the break down of what is a JRPG? It was very entertaining to watch. I always wondered what makes a game a JRPG and these criteria make sense
You hit the nail right on its JRPG head. Your explanation is perfect. And for those games that come close to the genre, we can say they are JRPG inspired IMO.
I think there are, say, 30 things that make something a jrpg, but a single game doesn't need any particular one of those 30 qualities. It just needs, say, 20-25 of them, and is free to experiment around that. Like 1 of those qualities is experience points. Not every jrpg has them, but they one quality of several combined with others that most have. So there are things that tend to define what a JRPG is, but because JRPG is an amalgam of different traits, there's no one thing you can point to as a requirement. I think you did a good job of outlining some of the most major qualities (of the 30 I mentioned) in this video, and you acknowledge that a single Jrpg never need absolutely require a single one of them. Well made video!
I've always like JRPG more because most of them focused more on character driven stories moving in a larger plot scale. Also overall core party member dynamics in JRPG are more interesting than western ones, and I feel more connected with the cast most of the time. Although WRPG have more freedom of choice in the story.
I think you already nailed all the point. When you are new and asked for a JRPG, a JRPG players will first give names such a Final Fantasy, Tales of, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest, Pokemon, Breath of Fire, Ys, Trails, etc. And maybe Nier, but seldom Zelda or Elden Ring/Dark Soul/Nioh, although quite sure Stranger of Paradise. In wiki they describe JRPG as an RPG that involves turn based combat, linear gameplay, a pre determined story and characters, and an emphasis on narrative and storytelling. I think this is kinda suffice but still lacks details, first it's an RPG (I don't want to debate this. If the game has stats up/new abilities after level up, equipments, some sort of "class/role/job" I will just call it an RPG). So it's clear it won't include something like the new God of War or Uncharted even though they checks other points. Second turn based combat, yeah this is simply not true because Tales of and Ys exist, I dare say even FF's combat (especially 4-9, 11-15) is not what I will call turn based combat. Third it's linear in gameplay not strictly "the world" as you said. Fourth and Fifth are self explained. You playing an anime/manga (because of course the story will heavily Japanese influenced). The direct consequence of fourth and fifth are the art style and the friends as you said, it simply doesn't feel JRPG without adventuring with friends. Now, as for something like Fire Emblem, Triangle Strategy, FF Tactics, Stella Glow, Gungnir, etc. I will still call them TRPG first and foremost but yeah I will give it a pass as a JRPG because they do have the "RPG" I define and checks other points too. And indeed all of this are to JRPG players can be curated as "you just know when you play one".
Great video! This is a criteria that I think you touch on: JRPGs typically have a party. It's about you and your friends telling a story (which directly ties into the charm that you described). WRPGs are stories more about the individual. This is why I love JRPGs. Friendship is essential for me to fall in love with a title.
I agree with your list, I would also like to add JRPGs tend to have a party of characters (not all, but a lot of them!) Even the ones where you only play one character, there's usually an entourage following the main character.
This was fantastic! I agree with all your points and particularly liked the category of Vibe. Sometimes you just get a feel for a game and you just...know that's it's a JRPG. I think long time JRPG fans have that sense. I used to be a stickler for the game to be at least "made in Japan or by Japanese developers." but I think the Vibe category can sort of overrule that notion. I also appreciate the recap at the end.
JRPGs tend to be party based. You usually have several playable units/characters. I would add this as a trademark of the genre. I'd also say that despite many JRPGs have action-based combat systems, they still tend to feel tactical, a succesful combat usually depends more on how you manage your passive skills, cooldowns and synergies among your playable characters than on your skill with the controller (this happens in games like FF VII Remake, Xenoblade Chronicles or Tales of Arise)
hearing you say wide linear put closure on a thing i did not know how to describe for a while, mainly being what a game is if its not open world nor if it isnt fully linear (pokemon, hexen, etc).
This is an excellent informational piece. The one core thing I would add is the insight the games give to what makes characters who they are - both the protagonists and especially the antagonists. Often, there are themes of tragic villainy where the player even sympathizes with their enemies though the way their history are presented. Cutscenes are often a big part of this, moreso than Western RPGs.
Gonna be honest, it feels to me like some people started making a distinction between japanese and western RPGs because they dislike the former. So I no longer care. Persona and Mass Effect? Both are RPGs and both are worth playing!
I 100 completely agree.. I would also. Include world building and stories that are inspired by psychology.. Religion.. Mythology and anime.. Some jrpgs are dark.. Example being shadow hearts and xenogears.. Also their battle systems either being turned based.. Real time command based or action, always have some kind of mechanic which make use of enemy weakness... Characters that either have unique abilities playing a role in the battle.. And limit breaks...also final fantasy has a hybrid anime /realistic style.. Introduced by Tetsuya nomura in ff8
I love this video ! congratulations 🌟 I am very happy that now you can make videos as incredible as this one For me, a jrpg will always be the ones that come from Japan and have an anime style 😅 I know there's a lot more than that but at least they share almost everything else with some exceptions
i wonder in which category you will included forspoken.... to be more western likeable i guess industry will be less anime style in some jrpg games....
@@Dricow You're right about that, a bit disappointing in my opinion. I think that part of the magic of jrpgs is that they have that essence of Japan for their tastes and not those of the west Especially Forspoken and his clear western essence despite being an isekai
I think we've gotten to the point where media is so international that regional terms like JRPG, Anime, Manga etc are kind of meaningless because everyone takes inspiration from everyone else.
The vibe of most JRPGs to me, is the values they present in different ways: innocence, purity, childlikeness, compassion, both masculine (often the hero archetype) and feminine (nurturing, wisdom, ...) strengths. In essence stories in JRPGs are about the most precious qualities of humanity. A reminder of what we truly are, even when we get hurt so badly, in a world that feels so unsafe and cold (especially in the west), that we close down, and learn to use sarcasm and cynisism to protect these precious parts of ourselves.
I generally define JRPGs as 1. An rpg (Obviouslly lol) 2. More story focused That definition might be a bit iffy and may need some work but generally that's how I would define it
Good video. I do look forward to hearing what you think about Zelda. The debate with that series if it qualifies or not has been going on for many years.
People think one of two ways about JRPGs. 1. JRPGs mean turn-based RPG, and anything else isnt a JRPG. Tales of, Kingdom Hearts, any real-time Final Fantasy (some of the most JAPANESE styled games of their genre) aren't JRPGs because they arent turn-based. 2. JRPGs are Japanese RPG, and there's no deeper definition. Its that simple. Chained Echoes and the upcoming Chrono Trigger-esque Sea of Stars (regardless of how explicitly tightly they follow the norms of a Japanese design) aren't JRPGs cause they were created outside of Japan. These mindsets are so outdated and wrong. I agree that its about the aesthetic, design intent, and all the ingredients that build towards the tropes and expected JRPG mechanics/storytelling that make a JRPG an applicable JRPG, not whether its a turn-based-only made in Japan product.
I like how a decent amount of JRPGs come from the west and a decent amount of WRPGs come from japan and it really blurs the lines. There are even some RPGs that are kinda in the middle of both genres like Xenoblade X or even Undertale(Yeah, remember how that game's selling point was to bring heavily choice-based progression into a linear adventure based on JP-media?). And honestly, that's a good thing, genres should be guidelines that help you keep design tidier and not law that you have to obey intinsically or extrinsically. 1:10 What in the world is a CRPG?
RPG's as a whole has become kinda hard to nail down. Other types of games have incorporated typical RPG elements like experience, leveling up and party members. While RPG's has spread, evolved and grown in different direction. No longer is turn based combat viewed as a necessity or requirement, different genres get mixed in and styles and game structures wildly varies. Back in the day you could categorize games from a glance to a much higher degree than today. Today you still know a shooter when you see one. But show me modern games from Final Fantasy, Dragons Dogma, Persona, Dark Souls and Pokemon and tell me they're all JRPS, then I'm gonna need some time to realize that's true lol.
For me it in the name. Any rpg made by a japanese developer (yes I count fromsoft games jrpgs). Honestly, I find the debate and exclusions and labels that many terminally online fans put into this as way too exhausting to care all that much about.
The terms JRPG and WRPG have never been a reference for what country a game was made in, it has always refered to a style of game made popular in a certain country, where the game was made has always been irrelevant to the term, it has always been about the style of RPG being made.
I agree with most of this except I do think that, to be a true RPG, a game needs to be turn based. Something like the Mana series may be an action rpg but thats a different thing. True RPGs (including strategy rpgs) are turn based.
Also with regard to the games you posted my vote would be no, Demons Souls, and Zelda are not RPGs. Yakuza is but only Yakuza Like a Dragon.... the other game are open world games.
I feel like they are way too similar to be considered separate genres. Maybe because I see where both started, and they are pretty much the same thing until like the late 2000s we’re western RPGs started to become more inspired by Elder Scrolls and Fallout. Maybe I don’t have enough knowledge of western RPGs, but they kinda are the same thing to me.
I still consider games like Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls JRPGs because while the art style is more western inspired, they still employ the same tropes and they are made in Japan.
i consider them like jwrpgs or just wrpgs. I dont think the genre name is about where they were made and is more about where the roots of their inspirations were and what design they fit into more. There are a lot of western made jrpgs and a lot of japanese (or eastern if you use the same term) made wrpgs
For me jrpg always have traditional turn based system, normally menu based. No movement and positioning of units on a battlefield. I prefer tactical RPGs which do have movement and positioning
I'm sorry, but you brought up other jrpgs with social mechanics in the video, but then seemingly forgot them when it came to social mechanics relegating that almost exclusively to Persona. Even those Fire Emblem titles relatively _light_ on social mechanics, still have the Support system which impacts gameplay and story. Xenoblade has, depending on the game, the Heart to Heart and Affinity systems which impact various things including avaliable questlines. SMT has demon negotiation which is vital to recruiting party members. NEO: TWEWY has an entire social web clearly inspired by Xenoblade's where building up your relationships with various characters and shops nets you various gear and stat bonuses. The Rune Factory series outside of combat with monsters is all about building up social relationships with the townspeople and even finding a spouse, etc...
When I say social aspects I don’t mean purely building relationships, I mean affecting the game based on social stats like charm, charisma, etc. persona is the only JRPG I can think of that actually has number to those stats that affect the game somehow.
Thanks for the video...i, like you, play rpg games for more than 30 years too.....i am 46 now...and all of this began with Zelda and FF Mystic Quest and others.... and people around me in social media mostly are hard to understand why Elden Ring is not a JRPG for me, for example kkkkkkk it's like i will be beaten in the streets if i meet them kkkk
Is genshin impact and honkai Star rail also counts as a jrpg bc both have anime art style dispite the developers hoyoverse comes from China and yes they also have offices in Japan that’s only for jp voice overs
yeah this is pretty much it. But there is one thing i'd like to add and some people will agree and some won't. I think the biggest difference between a Jrpg and a western RPG goes back to the storytelling. Let me clarify i mean no disrespect to American or any other creators when i say this because they are all great in their own way. But in my opinion Jrpg's tell stories in a way western Rpg's just can't. it's why i became such a huge fan in the first place. nice video Taylor and i will be watching your Fe retrospective.
Now how would define Sword art online fatal bullet? Cause I has some mmo elements, third person shooter. And jrpg elements. And as for how I define jrpgs I say if they have an anime manga aesthetic and/ or being developed or published by a japanese company. Combat style can be anything
Oh boy, this subject. Admittedly, as interesting of a subject I find this to be, discussions about it get muddled far too frequently. And really, I can't blame anyone (mostly) for it since it's such an unclear term to begin with. Everyone has their own rough idea of what is a Japanese RPG so it all becomes a battle of semantics where we end up arguing more about what we mean than what the tags actually represent. Well, that and all the insults and mockery unfortunately. So I guess I should apologize in advance if I come off rather strongly at points due to a mix of passion, frustration, and just poor communication skills on my end. To start, to me, JRPG is not a genre. There might be some broad strokes: turn-based, "anime" art style, pre-defined character focus, etc. But even those frequently don't always work. For every possible definition you can give me, I could easily find exception after exception after exception. It's come to a point where whenever someone says a game is a Japanese RPG...that often tells me very little about the game itself. "Nier" "Disgaea" "Demon Gaze" "Dragon Quest" "Shiren the Wanderer" "Growlanser" ...and so on. These all are commonly referred to as Japanese RPGs, I think it's safe to say most people would not disagree,...but they all are wildly different types of RPGs. "Nier" is an Action RPG, "Disgaea" is a Strategy/Simulation RPG, "Demon Gaze" a Dungeon RPG, "Dragon Quest" is I think a Traditional RPG, "Shiren" is a Mystery Dungeon RPG, "Growlanser" funnily would count as a Computer RPG (sometimes usually exclusively associated with Western RPGs), etc. These all already have more concrete genre identifiers that more or less stand on their own just fine, with only the hybrids and sub-genres getting a bit iffy. Foolish or not, I'd advocate we just get rid of the term JRPG. Just strip the (J) part right off. As mentioned earlier, everyone has their own definition of it and all that has led to is unnecessary infighting. Even Sony's recent definition of it had a lot of usage of "typically", "traditionally", "generally", and so on to create leeway since it's so unclear. Heck, even this video is like that. It's become a worthless term that means anything and nothing at the same time. So with the (J) part gone, we now would just have RPGs with particular focuses and actual specified genres to point towards. Stuff that isn't exclusively tied to a country. Anyone anywhere can use them. That way, JRPG can just mean what it says, an RPG from Japan. Or at least primarily Japanese focused. Since, as a fellow RPG content creator keeps bringing up as a counter, "Final Fantasy 9" was developed in Hawaii. Still primarily by Japanese directors and for a Japanese target audience but still, heavily Hawaiian influenced. So much media nowadays is produced internationally to varying degrees. And really, this back and forth exchange has been going on for decades. As much as people would want to point out how much Western developers have been getting influenced by Japanese RPGs, early Japanese RPGs were influenced by stuff like "Ultima", a Western RPG series. It's all a hotpot of cultural ideas and always has been once we move past the labels. One idea from somewhere will get more developed or innovated and then everywhere else follows suit. Not to mention due to how JRPG has been getting used nowadays, it's kind of become somewhat of a stigmatized term. There are some pretty damning associations that people have attached to it. It's partly why I've stopped saying JRPG and just prefer saying Japanese RPG. Both mean the same thing but saying it like the latter seems to focus more on the RPG part instead of the (J) part. I know it sounds silly, but it seems to oddly work. So...uh, yeah. A very unpopular set of opinions to have, I'm aware, but I genuinely believe this.
The thing I'm trying to look up on TH-cam right now and that I'm not finding what's the difference between an Esports player and an RPG player I'm looking at buying a better monitor, and they're like Esports players want high frames per second but 1080p But then when they explain the reason why I'm like okay well when I want the same?? I can't find that answer
This is all correct. Those who think otherwise are missing quite a bit of nuance in their lives. Another factor you could use to separate JRPG (Tales) vs. ARPG (Souls) is…. Evade. Is it skill based or numbers based. Nice work.
I think you went a bit far off later. JRPGs character interactions is what Japan saparate from west. In west, characters are more cinical and rude while Japanese ones are down to earth and nicer once you befriend them. Also killer OSTs
It wasn't well explained in the video, but he was talking about it as in using it as a stat check. The example he provided with persona 5 is similar to, in many wrpgs, having dialog choices and plot threads open up to you based on your stats, traits, etc.
also i dont understand your generalization of the character personalities between genres? Are you refering to jrpgs only really having fleshed out characters if they directly play a role in the story and how, because of that, the plot focues heavily on them?
For the most part I agree with your set criteria. I like to keep things simple though. If an RPG is made in Japan or by primarily Japanese devs then it's a JRPG. Everything else is an homage. Nothing wrong with being an homage but the Japanese part of Japanese Role Playing Game is the distinguishing factor. And yes that means everything that FromSoft makes is a JRPG.
"I just kind of know what a JRPG is whenever I see it." lol, yeah thats why its so wrong to recomended people Dragon Dogma or Darksoul series to people who want to play game like FF7R/Persona/Radiata Stories/Xenosaga/.hack. usualy we call this lump of game as JRPG. and if its more a action game and no party then its ARPG something like nier automata. and if it similiar to super robot war, disgaea, FF tactic, valkyria Chronicle, Frontmission. we call this As TacticRPG or StrategyRPG/SRPG
the reason we have a term for these is because how differently they can end up playing. I do see a lot of people use one of the other as some sort of insult, but a majority of people do not and see them as sub genres of rpgs.
@@TheGamingShelf it's not a negative thing. It's more my fingers get tired talking about it, but I can't help myself. I have an MFA in English with a focus on linguistics, so discussing the evolution of language and video games is kind of my thing.
JRPGs in my opinion tend to follow plot structures of old literature and mythology like Journey to the West, and are more likely to follow the five-man band structure of party comp. JRPG's tend to rely more on dated stereotypes for LGBTQ characters, especially gay men. Both Persona and Dragon Quest still do this, and don't get me started on Angelica from Trails of Cold Steel. JRPGs with dating sim elements also tend to have harems, with one clear canonical choice for a waifu. Yukiko, Yukari, and Makoto from the Persona series, Alisa from Cold Steel, and Colette from Tales of Symphonia all meet this.
⚔How do YOU define what a JRPG is?
Ys The Oath in Felghana
For me JRPG is just about the provenance of the rpg. The aesthetic, turn base vs real time action arent what defined a jrpg. Elden ring for me is a Western styled JRPG with an open world action combat system
The absolute origin of the jrpg can be found in wizardry and ultima as well as d&d and the the jrpg as a whole began with both Enix of Square Enix for dragon Quest and Nihon Falcom with both dragon slayer pre legend of heroes and the YS series there where visual novels and point and click adventures before both but nothing as complex as dragon quest and I believe both dragon quest and dragon slayer debuted on the MSX micro computer but I’m not sure if you want a more complete history of jrpgs I know clan of the grey wolf and Mr Gentlemen both did a major spread on the origin especially mr gentleman as far as I know his spans multiple videos by release year and might be still ongoing?
@cyb3r kitsun3 jrpgs are at this point still a style. If a dev made the original dragon quest pixel for pixel line for line but changed the character names a bit, it would still be a JRPG, no matter where the dev is from. I'm not into wine or cars so i can't speak on those things
cyb3r kitsun3 your comment is gone but i guess your point is fair
I never really put too much thought into this question, because I just kind of know what a JRPG is whenever I see it. and when you start putting clear definitions on what a game is, or should or shouldn’t be, it really hamstrings creativity. On one hand, I like how Japanese developers are opening up to western ideas but on the other hand, I really do miss the older style of JRPGs, with a linear story, world maps, cute encounters, and not too much fluff.
Well said. With all the different definitions in the comments, it is really just a "I know it when I see it" situation.
I don’t know man, people keep marginalizing FFXVI as a JRPG, and I don’t see it. No anime stylization, no turn-based combat with open zone progression, no party member command system, a dark medieval fantasy story, so many JRPG tropes this game does not have yet people STILL keep calling it one. I mean come on, if the definition is this loose then I don’t understand why no one calls Elden Ring a JRPG
@@babarrett1 Because Square Enix made its name as the grandfather of the genre and From Software games are so uniquely identifiable that it needs its own sub-term: the Soulsbourne
@@viledisturbance1869 If that's coming from a place of thinking JRPGs need to be rigidly traditional, then Sega is the only big name publisher unashamed of its JRPG library. The main difference I can identify from their more Western counterparts is that in that case you affect the story while in JRPGs it's vice versa. That encompasses everything from very traditional games like Persona and Pokemon, but also more action oriented and realistic games like FF VII Remake and recent Yakuzas, showing that artists who're known for a more anime style like Nomura can adapt them for a photorealistic world
@@viledisturbance1869 When did I say I played it? I’m just trying to provide the perspective of those who might not know better since it’s still called Final Fantasy. What does that bring forth images of, especially knowing Yoshi-P is otherwise known for XIV?
Nailed it. I got so many "whoa moments" watching this video. You truly put these pieces together and define them so well at the same time.
Thank you! I tried to be as thorough as possible with lots of different examples.
Weirdly this is how I've always recognised JRPGs so I agree with how this is all described! Great style of video dude!!!
Glad you enjoyed!
I always go with art style and vibe. Looking forward to hearing you talking about more jrpg. Great video
I agree with all 5 points. I don't think this will be a controversial video, all points you made definitely are important to distinguish an JRPG from a WRPG.
Not controversial, but problematic.
The definition requires too many qualifiers and too many definitions within the definition. I'm trying to communicate effectively. Instead I have to say "with rare exceptions" and "most of the time."
Then I have to define terms that define the term. Anime style? What's that to someone who isn't familiar with anime? Well, let's watch this video so we can talk about a game, or I could just show you a video of the game.
There's also a couple of his points I'd push back on. I'd say FF is probably the most recognizable franchise by the masses. It's not anime style in some ways. It's not turn-based.most of the time. It's not always linear. FF XV is 100% open world. I spent very little time in the car. I was exploring. We had different experiences because of its open world structure.
The problem with attempting to pin down the term JRPG, is that there's only one definition that you can't really poke holes in, but it's also not useful.
Thank you! I’m glad you think that, although I’m going to assume there will be some negative comments sooner or later lol
@@airdrighmor1439 ehhhh Pokemon is way more recognizable than Final Fantasy by the masses. Waaaaaay more.
I would say the most controversial bit is his claim about social features and relegating them largely to Persona, even though he mentioned multiple jrpgs in the video that have extensive social features.
@@badlatency9979 agreed that Pokemon is more recognizable. But as a JRPG? I would say not. I've heard several Pokemon fanatics criticize JRPGs as weeb trash. Pokemon is it's own thing.
@@airdrighmor1439 the fanatics may kick and scream about it, but it's as much weeb trash as any other jrpg. It's even a full on anime for crying out loud.
Great video. Visuals and storytelling are the biggest indicators for me of a JRPG. Its why i mostly prefer them over WRPGs.
Though they tend to lack the character choice of western rpgs, they focus more on likeable characters and companions. The action also feels more fantastical than the more grounded western approach.
They also aren't as prudish with female designs as the west are.
I absolutely love this video! From the editing to the break down of what is a JRPG? It was very entertaining to watch. I always wondered what makes a game a JRPG and these criteria make sense
I’m glad you thought so 😄
You hit the nail right on its JRPG head. Your explanation is perfect. And for those games that come close to the genre, we can say they are JRPG inspired IMO.
Seeing tales of arise and triangle strategy made me happy.
They’re both great games 😄
wow. super well made video here taylor. i’ve occasionally found myself trying to explain what a jrpg is for others. thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
JRPG to me is defined by games like Arc the Lad, Suikoden, and the GOAT Chrono Trigger
I think there are, say, 30 things that make something a jrpg, but a single game doesn't need any particular one of those 30 qualities. It just needs, say, 20-25 of them, and is free to experiment around that. Like 1 of those qualities is experience points. Not every jrpg has them, but they one quality of several combined with others that most have. So there are things that tend to define what a JRPG is, but because JRPG is an amalgam of different traits, there's no one thing you can point to as a requirement.
I think you did a good job of outlining some of the most major qualities (of the 30 I mentioned) in this video, and you acknowledge that a single
Jrpg never need absolutely require a single one of them. Well made video!
Thanks for checking out the video! And yes I agree, not any 1 thing, it’s a collection of traits.
Been playing JRPGs for 30 years as well.
WJRPGs and JRPGs have taken so much inspiration from one another it so hard to define what a JRPGs!
Fun video, it got me thinking! 😃
I've always like JRPG more because most of them focused more on character driven stories moving in a larger plot scale. Also overall core party member dynamics in JRPG are more interesting than western ones, and I feel more connected with the cast most of the time. Although WRPG have more freedom of choice in the story.
I think you already nailed all the point.
When you are new and asked for a JRPG, a JRPG players will first give names such a Final Fantasy, Tales of, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest, Pokemon, Breath of Fire, Ys, Trails, etc. And maybe Nier, but seldom Zelda or Elden Ring/Dark Soul/Nioh, although quite sure Stranger of Paradise.
In wiki they describe JRPG as an RPG that involves turn based combat, linear gameplay, a pre determined story and characters, and an emphasis on narrative and storytelling.
I think this is kinda suffice but still lacks details, first it's an RPG (I don't want to debate this. If the game has stats up/new abilities after level up, equipments, some sort of "class/role/job" I will just call it an RPG). So it's clear it won't include something like the new God of War or Uncharted even though they checks other points.
Second turn based combat, yeah this is simply not true because Tales of and Ys exist, I dare say even FF's combat (especially 4-9, 11-15) is not what I will call turn based combat.
Third it's linear in gameplay not strictly "the world" as you said.
Fourth and Fifth are self explained. You playing an anime/manga (because of course the story will heavily Japanese influenced).
The direct consequence of fourth and fifth are the art style and the friends as you said, it simply doesn't feel JRPG without adventuring with friends.
Now, as for something like Fire Emblem, Triangle Strategy, FF Tactics, Stella Glow, Gungnir, etc. I will still call them TRPG first and foremost but yeah I will give it a pass as a JRPG because they do have the "RPG" I define and checks other points too.
And indeed all of this are to JRPG players can be curated as "you just know when you play one".
Great video! This is a criteria that I think you touch on:
JRPGs typically have a party. It's about you and your friends telling a story (which directly ties into the charm that you described).
WRPGs are stories more about the individual.
This is why I love JRPGs. Friendship is essential for me to fall in love with a title.
Great video as always, thanks! And the series about going through some jrpgs to see it they meet these criteria sounds pretty interesting
Thank you! Should be fun to put together for sure.
Very good explanation of what makes a game a JRPG. There are always exceptions to every rule but those is very concise.
I agree with your list, I would also like to add JRPGs tend to have a party of characters (not all, but a lot of them!) Even the ones where you only play one character, there's usually an entourage following the main character.
granblue music made me remember how i wasted 4 years (literally thousands of hours) on that game
thanks!
Sorry? 😆
@@TheGamingShelf all good
This was fantastic! I agree with all your points and particularly liked the category of Vibe. Sometimes you just get a feel for a game and you just...know that's it's a JRPG. I think long time JRPG fans have that sense.
I used to be a stickler for the game to be at least "made in Japan or by Japanese developers." but I think the Vibe category can sort of overrule that notion.
I also appreciate the recap at the end.
Thank you. I've always been intrigued by what a JRPG is, having never played them. This makes me want to try one.
"If your charm isn't high enough you cannot hang out with certain female characters." Yo why would you call me out like that 😂
JRPGs tend to be party based. You usually have several playable units/characters. I would add this as a trademark of the genre. I'd also say that despite many JRPGs have action-based combat systems, they still tend to feel tactical, a succesful combat usually depends more on how you manage your passive skills, cooldowns and synergies among your playable characters than on your skill with the controller (this happens in games like FF VII Remake, Xenoblade Chronicles or Tales of Arise)
hearing you say wide linear put closure on a thing i did not know how to describe for a while, mainly being what a game is if its not open world nor if it isnt fully linear (pokemon, hexen, etc).
This is an excellent informational piece.
The one core thing I would add is the insight the games give to what makes characters who they are - both the protagonists and especially the antagonists. Often, there are themes of tragic villainy where the player even sympathizes with their enemies though the way their history are presented. Cutscenes are often a big part of this, moreso than Western RPGs.
Gonna be honest, it feels to me like some people started making a distinction between japanese and western RPGs because they dislike the former.
So I no longer care. Persona and Mass Effect? Both are RPGs and both are worth playing!
Idea for a stream: "is it an rpg?"
It’ll be a while series going forward ;)
Awesome video dude...loved it.
Glad you liked it! :D
I 100 completely agree.. I would also. Include world building and stories that are inspired by psychology.. Religion.. Mythology and anime.. Some jrpgs are dark.. Example being shadow hearts and xenogears.. Also their battle systems either being turned based.. Real time command based or action, always have some kind of mechanic which make use of enemy weakness... Characters that either have unique abilities playing a role in the battle.. And limit breaks...also final fantasy has a hybrid anime /realistic style.. Introduced by Tetsuya nomura in ff8
Good points!
I love this video ! congratulations 🌟 I am very happy that now you can make videos as incredible as this one
For me, a jrpg will always be the ones that come from Japan and have an anime style 😅 I know there's a lot more than that but at least they share almost everything else with some exceptions
I’m so glad you enjoyed it!
i wonder in which category you will included forspoken.... to be more western likeable i guess industry will be less anime style in some jrpg games....
@@Dricow You're right about that, a bit disappointing in my opinion. I think that part of the magic of jrpgs is that they have that essence of Japan for their tastes and not those of the west Especially Forspoken and his clear western essence despite being an isekai
@@DavJoestar yeah....but i guess it will be in some games.... future no one knows....i hope jrpg doesn t lose its essence
Its really down to artstyle
like difference in manga, comics, manhwa, manhua, etc
You experience enough of it, you just know it
I think we've gotten to the point where media is so international that regional terms like JRPG, Anime, Manga etc are kind of meaningless because everyone takes inspiration from everyone else.
Definitely agree here..id also say they are much more character oriented than other rpgs though.
True!
The vibe of most JRPGs to me, is the values they present in different ways: innocence, purity, childlikeness, compassion, both masculine (often the hero archetype) and feminine (nurturing, wisdom, ...) strengths. In essence stories in JRPGs are about the most precious qualities of humanity. A reminder of what we truly are, even when we get hurt so badly, in a world that feels so unsafe and cold (especially in the west), that we close down, and learn to use sarcasm and cynisism to protect these precious parts of ourselves.
I generally define JRPGs as
1. An rpg (Obviouslly lol)
2. More story focused
That definition might be a bit iffy and may need some work but generally that's how I would define it
Is that FFT music i hear in the background :D
It is! Good ear 😉
I think the first thumbnail was better!
We'll see what the data says! Gonna keep trying both xD
I think of Zelda and Final Fantasy as RPGs.
And Fallout.
Good video. I do look forward to hearing what you think about Zelda. The debate with that series if it qualifies or not has been going on for many years.
Right? The tricky thing with that series too is that it changes a lot from one game to the next.
People think one of two ways about JRPGs.
1. JRPGs mean turn-based RPG, and anything else isnt a JRPG. Tales of, Kingdom Hearts, any real-time Final Fantasy (some of the most JAPANESE styled games of their genre) aren't JRPGs because they arent turn-based.
2. JRPGs are Japanese RPG, and there's no deeper definition. Its that simple. Chained Echoes and the upcoming Chrono Trigger-esque Sea of Stars (regardless of how explicitly tightly they follow the norms of a Japanese design) aren't JRPGs cause they were created outside of Japan.
These mindsets are so outdated and wrong.
I agree that its about the aesthetic, design intent, and all the ingredients that build towards the tropes and expected JRPG mechanics/storytelling that make a JRPG an applicable JRPG, not whether its a turn-based-only made in Japan product.
I like how a decent amount of JRPGs come from the west and a decent amount of WRPGs come from japan and it really blurs the lines. There are even some RPGs that are kinda in the middle of both genres like Xenoblade X or even Undertale(Yeah, remember how that game's selling point was to bring heavily choice-based progression into a linear adventure based on JP-media?). And honestly, that's a good thing, genres should be guidelines that help you keep design tidier and not law that you have to obey intinsically or extrinsically.
1:10 What in the world is a CRPG?
Lunar
Amazing video!
Thanks! I tried lol
RPG's as a whole has become kinda hard to nail down. Other types of games have incorporated typical RPG elements like experience, leveling up and party members. While RPG's has spread, evolved and grown in different direction. No longer is turn based combat viewed as a necessity or requirement, different genres get mixed in and styles and game structures wildly varies.
Back in the day you could categorize games from a glance to a much higher degree than today. Today you still know a shooter when you see one. But show me modern games from Final Fantasy, Dragons Dogma, Persona, Dark Souls and Pokemon and tell me they're all JRPS, then I'm gonna need some time to realize that's true lol.
Great content, man.
For me it in the name. Any rpg made by a japanese developer (yes I count fromsoft games jrpgs). Honestly, I find the debate and exclusions and labels that many terminally online fans put into this as way too exhausting to care all that much about.
The terms JRPG and WRPG have never been a reference for what country a game was made in, it has always refered to a style of game made popular in a certain country, where the game was made has always been irrelevant to the term, it has always been about the style of RPG being made.
Excellent explanation, I agree with it all.
at work now so imma watch this fully later. but just based off the title of this video...umm are you about to start some ish right now? lol
Maybe 👀
I agree with most of this except I do think that, to be a true RPG, a game needs to be turn based. Something like the Mana series may be an action rpg but thats a different thing. True RPGs (including strategy rpgs) are turn based.
Also with regard to the games you posted my vote would be no, Demons Souls, and Zelda are not RPGs. Yakuza is but only Yakuza Like a Dragon.... the other game are open world games.
While Final Fantasy 16 looks visually stunning, I’m not getting JRPG vibes there…is this going more into the direction of Action/Adventure?
I feel like they are way too similar to be considered separate genres. Maybe because I see where both started, and they are pretty much the same thing until like the late 2000s we’re western RPGs started to become more inspired by Elder Scrolls and Fallout. Maybe I don’t have enough knowledge of western RPGs, but they kinda are the same thing to me.
I'd say a relatively linear closed-loop narrative driven RPG
I still consider games like Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls JRPGs because while the art style is more western inspired, they still employ the same tropes and they are made in Japan.
i consider them like jwrpgs or just wrpgs. I dont think the genre name is about where they were made and is more about where the roots of their inspirations were and what design they fit into more. There are a lot of western made jrpgs and a lot of japanese (or eastern if you use the same term) made wrpgs
For me jrpg always have traditional turn based system, normally menu based. No movement and positioning of units on a battlefield. I prefer tactical RPGs which do have movement and positioning
The term is actually alot older theb ff10 looks like roughly around 1992 was when it originated
I'm sorry, but you brought up other jrpgs with social mechanics in the video, but then seemingly forgot them when it came to social mechanics relegating that almost exclusively to Persona. Even those Fire Emblem titles relatively _light_ on social mechanics, still have the Support system which impacts gameplay and story. Xenoblade has, depending on the game, the Heart to Heart and Affinity systems which impact various things including avaliable questlines. SMT has demon negotiation which is vital to recruiting party members. NEO: TWEWY has an entire social web clearly inspired by Xenoblade's where building up your relationships with various characters and shops nets you various gear and stat bonuses. The Rune Factory series outside of combat with monsters is all about building up social relationships with the townspeople and even finding a spouse, etc...
When I say social aspects I don’t mean purely building relationships, I mean affecting the game based on social stats like charm, charisma, etc. persona is the only JRPG I can think of that actually has number to those stats that affect the game somehow.
Thanks for the video...i, like you, play rpg games for more than 30 years too.....i am 46 now...and all of this began with Zelda and FF Mystic Quest and others.... and people around me in social media mostly are hard to understand why Elden Ring is not a JRPG for me, for example kkkkkkk it's like i will be beaten in the streets if i meet them kkkk
Yeah definitely not a JRPG IMO lol.
Is genshin impact and honkai Star rail also counts as a jrpg bc both have anime art style dispite the developers hoyoverse comes from China and yes they also have offices in Japan that’s only for jp voice overs
vibe is such a big one.
I don’t see FFXVI as a JRPG, and for good reasons it doesn’t have most of the tropes you mentioned, yet people still keep marginalizing it as one.
yeah this is pretty much it. But there is one thing i'd like to add and some people will agree and some won't. I think the biggest difference between a Jrpg and a western RPG goes back to the storytelling. Let me clarify i mean no disrespect to American or any other creators when i say this because they are all great in their own way. But in my opinion Jrpg's tell stories in a way western Rpg's just can't. it's why i became such a huge fan in the first place. nice video Taylor and i will be watching your Fe retrospective.
I totally know what you mean. There’s definitely a different vibe to them that western RPGs just don’t have.
Linear or choose your own adventure.
psp Don't forget BRAVE STORY NEW TRAVELER
Can we consider God of War a JRPG? to me, it ticks all the box except for the character design not being manga anime inspired.
Now how would define Sword art online fatal bullet? Cause I has some mmo elements, third person shooter. And jrpg elements. And as for how I define jrpgs I say if they have an anime manga aesthetic and/ or being developed or published by a japanese company. Combat style can be anything
To me thats more a of a shooter than an RPG. Although I haven't really played it so I can't make a real distinction.
@@TheGamingShelf I've played it and it felt .ore like a fusion of Shooter and anime mmo
Oh boy, this subject. Admittedly, as interesting of a subject I find this to be, discussions about it get muddled far too frequently. And really, I can't blame anyone (mostly) for it since it's such an unclear term to begin with. Everyone has their own rough idea of what is a Japanese RPG so it all becomes a battle of semantics where we end up arguing more about what we mean than what the tags actually represent. Well, that and all the insults and mockery unfortunately.
So I guess I should apologize in advance if I come off rather strongly at points due to a mix of passion, frustration, and just poor communication skills on my end.
To start, to me, JRPG is not a genre. There might be some broad strokes: turn-based, "anime" art style, pre-defined character focus, etc. But even those frequently don't always work. For every possible definition you can give me, I could easily find exception after exception after exception. It's come to a point where whenever someone says a game is a Japanese RPG...that often tells me very little about the game itself.
"Nier"
"Disgaea"
"Demon Gaze"
"Dragon Quest"
"Shiren the Wanderer"
"Growlanser"
...and so on.
These all are commonly referred to as Japanese RPGs, I think it's safe to say most people would not disagree,...but they all are wildly different types of RPGs. "Nier" is an Action RPG, "Disgaea" is a Strategy/Simulation RPG, "Demon Gaze" a Dungeon RPG, "Dragon Quest" is I think a Traditional RPG, "Shiren" is a Mystery Dungeon RPG, "Growlanser" funnily would count as a Computer RPG (sometimes usually exclusively associated with Western RPGs), etc. These all already have more concrete genre identifiers that more or less stand on their own just fine, with only the hybrids and sub-genres getting a bit iffy.
Foolish or not, I'd advocate we just get rid of the term JRPG. Just strip the (J) part right off. As mentioned earlier, everyone has their own definition of it and all that has led to is unnecessary infighting. Even Sony's recent definition of it had a lot of usage of "typically", "traditionally", "generally", and so on to create leeway since it's so unclear. Heck, even this video is like that. It's become a worthless term that means anything and nothing at the same time.
So with the (J) part gone, we now would just have RPGs with particular focuses and actual specified genres to point towards. Stuff that isn't exclusively tied to a country. Anyone anywhere can use them. That way, JRPG can just mean what it says, an RPG from Japan. Or at least primarily Japanese focused. Since, as a fellow RPG content creator keeps bringing up as a counter, "Final Fantasy 9" was developed in Hawaii. Still primarily by Japanese directors and for a Japanese target audience but still, heavily Hawaiian influenced.
So much media nowadays is produced internationally to varying degrees. And really, this back and forth exchange has been going on for decades. As much as people would want to point out how much Western developers have been getting influenced by Japanese RPGs, early Japanese RPGs were influenced by stuff like "Ultima", a Western RPG series. It's all a hotpot of cultural ideas and always has been once we move past the labels. One idea from somewhere will get more developed or innovated and then everywhere else follows suit.
Not to mention due to how JRPG has been getting used nowadays, it's kind of become somewhat of a stigmatized term. There are some pretty damning associations that people have attached to it. It's partly why I've stopped saying JRPG and just prefer saying Japanese RPG. Both mean the same thing but saying it like the latter seems to focus more on the RPG part instead of the (J) part. I know it sounds silly, but it seems to oddly work.
So...uh, yeah. A very unpopular set of opinions to have, I'm aware, but I genuinely believe this.
The thing I'm trying to look up on TH-cam right now and that I'm not finding what's the difference between an Esports player and an RPG player
I'm looking at buying a better monitor, and they're like Esports players want high frames per second but 1080p
But then when they explain the reason why I'm like okay well when I want the same??
I can't find that answer
well if viiremake is a jrpg i guess kingdom hearts is which i never thought of
Elden Ring in fact is jrpg
This is all correct.
Those who think otherwise are missing quite a bit of nuance in their lives.
Another factor you could use to separate JRPG (Tales) vs. ARPG (Souls) is…. Evade.
Is it skill based or numbers based.
Nice work.
I think you went a bit far off later. JRPGs character interactions is what Japan saparate from west. In west, characters are more cinical and rude while Japanese ones are down to earth and nicer once you befriend them. Also killer OSTs
It wasn't well explained in the video, but he was talking about it as in using it as a stat check. The example he provided with persona 5 is similar to, in many wrpgs, having dialog choices and plot threads open up to you based on your stats, traits, etc.
also i dont understand your generalization of the character personalities between genres? Are you refering to jrpgs only really having fleshed out characters if they directly play a role in the story and how, because of that, the plot focues heavily on them?
For the most part I agree with your set criteria. I like to keep things simple though.
If an RPG is made in Japan or by primarily Japanese devs then it's a JRPG. Everything else is an homage.
Nothing wrong with being an homage but the Japanese part of Japanese Role Playing Game is the distinguishing factor.
And yes that means everything that FromSoft makes is a JRPG.
Thanks for sharing! I’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree on that one 🙂
@@TheGamingShelf That's fine.
Ocarina of time is an action rpg, right?, i usually get confused there
Do you consider Zelda a JRPG?
Wait, what is a CRPG? Great video.
computer role-playing game, which from what ive read is a lot closer to table top rpgs.
Its very simple. JRPGs are basically just "anime" RPGs
Yakuza games, yokai watch games are jrpgs
so where the roleplaying part in j(rp)g? when it is linear no choices no character creation
theyre not "ecchi advs" or eroges
they could have (j)rpg elements though
but that doesnt make it their (primary) genre
theres bishojo too
I see why i hate wrpg and love jrpg. Jrpg are perfect, no nonsensical stuffs like go around and get lost in the world or not a good story.
"I just kind of know what a JRPG is whenever I see it." lol, yeah thats why its so wrong to recomended people Dragon Dogma or Darksoul series to people who want to play game like FF7R/Persona/Radiata Stories/Xenosaga/.hack. usualy we call this lump of game as JRPG. and if its more a action game and no party then its ARPG something like nier automata. and if it similiar to super robot war, disgaea, FF tactic, valkyria Chronicle, Frontmission. we call this As TacticRPG or StrategyRPG/SRPG
Yes
Great list! I would also add that stories in JRPG's like to take some time before getting really interesting (im looking at you, Persona 5!)
OMG tell me about it lol
The real answer? Anime hair.
That's a real and serious answer. The distinction is fake.
Hard to argue 🤷🏻♂️
JRPGじゃなくて普通にRPGって呼んで欲しいがな、
元々外人の偏見から始まった言葉なんだから、
方向性の違いを上下関係で捉える欧米特有の差別意識も確実に入っている。
the reason we have a term for these is because how differently they can end up playing. I do see a lot of people use one of the other as some sort of insult, but a majority of people do not and see them as sub genres of rpgs.
"digital stage performance" or "cyber bunraku"
Becouse they are playable anime.
A Japanese Role Playing Game would most likely be turn based or Strategy Tactics RPG.
So not Final Fantasy? Or Tales. Or Star Ocean. The list goes on.
No always! Tales, Star Ocean heck even modern Final Fantasy are all action but I would consider them JRPGs.
Some of my favorite games of all time are mostly WRPG's
Uh oh. Everyone is doing one.
Really? Who else?
@@TheGamingShelf SuperDerek so far. Others in the past.
I wrote a small essay on his video.
Oh dang lol. I shot this like 3 weeks ago so I had no idea he was making one too!
@@TheGamingShelf it's not a negative thing. It's more my fingers get tired talking about it, but I can't help myself.
I have an MFA in English with a focus on linguistics, so discussing the evolution of language and video games is kind of my thing.
Amazing video but you forgot about the FANSERVICE
haha true!
I mean i know what it is. Played them my whole fucking life but i guess to each his own.
Jrpg's are defined by everything that Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy did
So ff15 is not a jrpg?
@@ibra9025 never said that
JRPGs in my opinion tend to follow plot structures of old literature and mythology like Journey to the West, and are more likely to follow the five-man band structure of party comp.
JRPG's tend to rely more on dated stereotypes for LGBTQ characters, especially gay men. Both Persona and Dragon Quest still do this, and don't get me started on Angelica from Trails of Cold Steel.
JRPGs with dating sim elements also tend to have harems, with one clear canonical choice for a waifu. Yukiko, Yukari, and Makoto from the Persona series, Alisa from Cold Steel, and Colette from Tales of Symphonia all meet this.
そこまで言うなら洋ゲーはそのままポリコレに突き進め、
君達にとってはそれが「進化した人類」の姿なんだろう？
WHAT IS A JRPG!? *Throws wine glass*
🍷🤓
Thanks so much for this video. Now show it to everyone that says Dark Souls/Elden Ring is their favorite JRPG. Those aren't JRPGS! 😫
All you need to do is run a simple cringe-per-minute test.