Why JRPGs Are The Best Videogames
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ค. 2024
- In which a deep-voiced recluse conveys his correct opinions to attractive internet strangers. Let's take an in depth look at some very different entries into the best genre of games: Dragon Quest 7, Yakuza: Like a Dragon, Xenoblade Chronicles, and Shin Megami Tensei 4.
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0:00 A Personal History
5:49 Controlling a Cast
10:09 Variety!
15:29 Difficulty?
22:14 Rich Storytelling
31:25 Gameplay Styles
40:21 Secondary Systems
45:29 Outsmarting the System
51:42 Western RPGs Tho...
1:01:00 Closing Thoughts
#EmceeProphIt #gamereview #analysis #videoessay #critique #gaming #jrpg #rpg #list #bestgames #review #journalism #gamedesign #gamedev #gamedevelopment - เกม
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For me, RPG are a combination of my two favorite indoor hobby : play of words and circumstances (reading, watching, listening, story and fiction, etc.) and play of logics an commands (solving puzzles, playing detective, math, physic, observation, etc.)
I think its insane you didnt talk about the soundtracks for these games. games like smt 4, ff7 and xenoblade have some of the strongest ost's in gaming period.
When a game is mostly going through a menu and standing around taking turns, that music better be BANGIN to compensate lol
As someone who regularly listens to JRPG music, absolutely! The soundtracks are amazing, even on older games. What Uematsu did for FFVI's soundtrack with the limitations of the SNES is pretty miraculous. Nihon Falcom's games are also blessed with amazing music. Even one-off games like Skies of Arcadia or niche cult classics like Shadow Hearts and Dark Cloud are no slouches musically.
And what would he say beyond "the music is amazing"?
@@Kaitou1412FangirlTo me, the music of the original bravely default is straight up unbeatable sometimes. I've played many jrpgs myself and believe ff has overall the best music -maybe in games as a whole- (Nobuo Uematsu is a modern mozart, may he live forever). But somehow, after all these years bravely default still takes the cake. Maybe it's bias due to it's importance to me, but yeah, I felt like mentioning it here.
I was informed by an industry professional that the music was forgettable in smt4
Yeah, I love the variety that JRPGs can give, both in story and mechanics. I also think a huge draw of the genre (for me) is the sheer earnestness. They're not ashamed to take their wacky stuff seriously, or to really commit to their emotional beats.
Also, if you want a good example of interesting secondary systems in JRPGs, I'd recommend checking out the Star Ocean series. They basically treat progression as a puzzle of (optional) interlocking systems that, once you figure out how the pieces fit together, let you break the games in half. It goes super deep, and gets absolutely silly.
You will love the optional super bosses in Xenoblade Chronicles.
Great game, I luv the story and world building .... but most of the side missions are boring af :( that's my only complaint
@@BizonURSYes, It is not worth it, they are there just to make the game bigger, what really matters is the story and the exploration
@@BizonURS3 really redeemed side quests for the series. 1 SUCKS at them but at least 2 hand a handful interesting ones. But oh man, 3 has probably my favourite implementation of side quests ever
@@philipp5756 Having some of them forced on you?
I agree that Western RPG tend to fall into some specific patterns but the existence and success of games like Disco Elysium makes me pretty excited for what they can offer when shedding the medieval setting.
There are lots of non-fantasy rpgs, you're just not seeing them.
@@PaulRGauthier There are lots of any kind of game, but there's also a disproportionate amount of Western RPGs with settings inspired by DnD/Tolkien.
Blud has never heard of Fallout, Mass Effect, Deus Ex, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, ect.
There are tons of non fantasy/medieval western RPGs. That is just silly.
@@RJRedtailand there are a disproportionate amount of Jrpgs that are also basically medieval fantasy.
I don’t think turn based systems are the issue, but rather how you’re forced to interact with these systems. Specifically the encounter system and the leveling system.
Chrono Cross tries to minimize the need for grinding by making it where your party only levels up after beating a boss. So the only things you really need to grind for are money materials. And it removes annoying encounters by NOT randomizing them. You can see the enemies on completely avoid them if you don’t want to fight them. And even if you get into a fight by accident, you can run away from it no matter what.
I def agree that true 'random' encounters have little in the way of upsides. One of the first things I set out to solve in a game I'm making was creating visual enemies on the field that the player needs to touch for a fight to start.
I disagree. Random encounteres are usually bad because they are implemented as is, with no tweeks to adapt to the game.
Basic random encounters are really only good for games where they are used to deplete ressources and you must decide when to quit exploration to resupply your (limited hopefully) ressources. Like in Etrian odyssee or Shining in the Darkness.
But if we look at some random encounters from a bunch of games we can create better random encounters. The basics include ways to increase or decrease the encounter rate but the way to do it should differ from game to game. Eg. don't make running the way to increase the encounter rate, I'm slowing down in order to not lose time.
There is also the classic encounter indicator, usually a bar or a color.
The encounter rate could also vary depending on the environment. In golden Sun, some puzzle rooms have no encounters.
In some games there is also a minimum number of steps after an encounter when no other fight can occur.
For people arguing about "realism", let's talk about Shining the Holy Ark. The random encounters enter the screen naturally. There is a puddle on the floor ? You might be able to go through, or maybe a water demon will come out.
Depending of the type of game, you can increase the chance to flee after a failed attempt or a number of turns, or even make the chance to run away always 100%.
A badly designed overworld encounter is more frustrating to me than a standard random encounter, because you can avoid it but sometimes wonky hitboxes will screw you over, sometimes you are in a corridor and can't avoid the thing, sometimes you are in a corridor but the monster flees because you are overleveled but you must go in the direction of the monster anyway, sometimes you have to hit the blob in the fear of a devastating enemy's first strike but your character is too slow to turn around and you get punched either way.
What about the famous "I'm slower than monsters" system ?
The avantages of overworld encounters is supposed to be that you can engage with some whenever you want but this is rarely true and the game can't really guess what level you are supposed to be. Bravely default 2's encounters are worse than the ones in Bravely Default and Bravely Second imo.
Turn based is way better, as long there isn't a lot of random encounters i enjoy way more Turn based than Action JRPG.
This information has removed Chrono Cross from my video game bucket list. Thank you for saving me much frustration.
@@Trevor_NewJerusalem why?
I was really late to the jrpg party. I didn’t get into jrpg’s until my mid twenties, the first jrpg I played to completion was Persona 5, and while I absolutely love that game, it was Nihon Falcoms Trails series that really sealed the deal and made me a jrpg fan. To this day, Trails of Cold Steel 4 is the first and only time I have wept at a video game, like ugly crying dude. What a game.
Wait, you haven’t finished Xenoblade 1? I think it’s got one of the most satisfying JRPG endings ever.
Though I thought that the ending, especially that reveal about how the world came to be, came out of nowhere. XC2 handled it much better in that regard. Not saying that I like xc2 more
@@chiaang Yeah I agree with this. I don't think Xenoblade 1's plot is as good as people make it out to be. Most of the dialogue from cutscenes is flat and expository (not that the dialogue from 2 is any better with its excessive use of tropes for attempts at comic relief) and I only cared about like two characters in the long run.
Very overrated game imo.
@@tbnwontpop8857In jesus name no more cap
I love JRPGs, big fan of Persona series, Final Fantasy series (though I think it started to taper off after 10).
One problem I always run into is if I ever put the game down and return to it after some time is I have no idea what I was doing or what's going on.
Quest logs can somewhat mitigate this and at least let me know the primary things I can do.
But my favourite implementation was in the game "The Invincible", as you progress in the game, all events and choices are recorded in the form of a comic book you can read at any time; so if you return to the game you can read the comic and know exactly what was going on.
It's not the first game to do this, I vaguely recall another doing recaps but I can't remember what it is.
Recaps should become more normalised :)
I think there are overall three types of gamers: experiential gamers, mechanical gamers and cozy gamers. Everyone has an overlap of the three but I think one will always stick out.
Experiential gamers approach a game like a book or a movie, Mechanical gamers approach a game like a board game or a sport, while cozy gamers approach a game like a hobbie. "What's the story and themes" vs "what's the core mechanics and rules" vs "whats the mini games and relaxing areas". All are valid gaming criteria.
JRPGs are one of the few genres that can hit all three in one game and hit them extremely well.
As someone who is all three of these, I really resonate with this comment.
its insane how much i agree with you. FF9 was also the game that got me into jrpgs as well and its been my favorite genre ever since. I also am glad you put the section in about western rpgs, whenever i try to explain why i cant get into "traditional fantasy" to people i never know how to articulate why. you segment about it sticking super close to tradition was a perfect way to put my thoughts into words. thank you for this video
"All of the games in X genre are the same" tends to be an arguement that people would use against genres where the games are actually really not near the same. And what is more funny is that usually the people who critize are playing games in a genre that is more homegenous. It is very odd to me, like if everyone is pretending that they believe something that they don't.
"The things I don't like are all the same" is a very common feature of human psychology. I don't like country music, so of course it all sounds roughly the same to me. It's just very hard to appreciate the diversity and nuance of anything if you don't develop an active interest in it.
And of course, within any media genre, common stylistic conventions do exist. These are what make it identifiable and distinct as a genre. So there is _some_ truth to it.
I don't think I have met a single FPS enjoyer that can tell me the difference between why they enjoy CSGO over CoD or CoD over Battlefield or Battlefield over Halo or ... over ...
It is insane to me how little introspection the average gamer has.
@@CricketStyleJ much like wiskie or any liquor u try, the first times u taste only the burning alchool, then u can understand the flavors and differences
@@rickmel3883 while there are things like elder scrolls, fallout, cyberpunk, the witcher, kotor, etc...
Halo, call of duty counterstrike and battlefield have about as much in common as starcraft 2, Wargame, Tiberian Dawn and World in Conflict do.
Just because you cannot recognize mwchanical complexity and nuance, does not make it less important than thematic stylistic or textual differences.
And JRPGs are mostly mechanically homogeneous, unless one includes things in tham most rraditionally would not, like turn based strategy games, like fire emblem, front mission or valkyria chronicles, as well as action RPGs like dark souls or action adventure games like the Legend of Zelda.
And this is why most people say jrpgs are all the same, because they are so extremely mechamically homogeneus, which is the primary qualifier for what a given entry in am interactive medium *is*. Dragonquest, final fantasy xenoblade, chronotrigger, mother ni no kuni, or basiaclly any othe jrpg plays exacly like ultima 1 through 9, bjt with a more railroaded story and no character building.
The only exception I know of is SMT, which instead plays like wizardry, and has actually kept the character progression intact.
I played Crystal Project earlier this year, and while it has damn near no story to speak of, i find it absolutely fascinating. It feels like someone made a whole world in minecraft and you explore it metroidvania style as you unlock different mounts, along with a job-style class system that you unlock as you explore. I just wanted to share that.
It also allows for lots customization of stats in exhange for gold which came to mind at 9:25 in the video
As a Western RPG maniac, I am very excited to watch this video purely to get to that "Western RPGs tho" section.
EDIT: Great video! Certainly did give me a greater appreciation for the variety that can be found in JRPGs, and what elements really resonate with you that may not resonate with me. I'll always be a sucker for those open narrative/multiple choice routes WRPGs do more than JRPGs, but I can totally see what they don't quite fit for all players.
I hate it when people treat turn based JRPGs as dated and only made due to hardware limitations.
The combat being turn based is a conscious choice because the gameplay is about STRATEGY! You're supposed to think carefully about how you're going to deal with the gauntlet of enemies between the entrance of this dungeon and the next save point, manage resources like Potions, attack items and your party's MP, while allowing yourself some leeway to explore off the intended path to find some hidden treasures. Bosses are all about identifying patterns, weaknesses and strengths to find openings to deal damage and avoid using damage types they're immune to or benefit from.
You're supposed to THINK about how you're going to approach the challenges before you tackle them, and if you're underprepared, you'll have to face the loss of progress and go through it all over again, until you refine your strategy well enough to clear the challenge. It's the same mentality of a Dark Souls game, except the emphasis is more on the strategy and less on reaction.
One isn't objectively better than the other, and the presence of action gameplay does not invalidate turn based combat! Just wish those detractors understood that instead of just dissing on it out of ignorance.
Aren't Western turn-based RPGs the same in this regard?
@@hellomadet I wouldn't know, I haven't played any. The only WRPGs I have played were first person action ones, but if the description fits, then apply.
@@TwilightWolf032 In general, I liked the video, that's why I pick on the details. You have a new loyal fan.
Divinity Original Sin has brought back the interest for turn-based games to the western audience. I see so many young people loving the combat in Divinity and I'm so happy for it.
Smt IV representation as to what makes a great more challenging jrpg is incredibly based. Thank you
Absolutely adore it. I think it's my fav in the series, just barely beating Nocturne.
If I could offer one piece of criticism after watching the full video though. You mentioned how a lot of western RPGs feel really “samey” with Tolkien influence of elves, magic dwarves. All telling the same story more or less.
When those criticisms could easily be levied against jrpgs. You said yourself earlier in the video “I don’t really mind if jrpgs all have the power of friendship, where you kill a god.”
To me both genres you could have that criticism for. You even mentioned “people will misinterpret this section anyway”. On some level you understand going that section could’ve been explained a little better, and that phrase felt like preemptively trying to avoid the comments you knew you’d get.
But to end on a positive note. I LOVED your section about the differences in combat and gameplay variety among JRPGs. It makes even a cynical old SMT fan want to be more open to something like Xenoblade which I fully bounced off of
I’m obsessed with groups of people from different areas of the world banding together for a common goal
just like my discord server for real
Just discovered this video on my recommended and i have to say your channel is amazing! Can't wait to see the future content. Hope you are well!
Love the Bravely call out. Not kidding, I recently searched for an hour+ long deep dive on the series and its impact, but found nothing. The importance of Bravely Default and how it changed the trajectory of turn-based JRPGs cannot be understated. I even thought of starting my own TH-cam channel just to do a video essay on it lol. Looking forward to yours!!
"changed the trajectory of turn-based jrpgs" ? please elaborate
@@goncaloferreira6429 well then if OP isn't going to elaborate, then I will some time in 2024/2025 after I do a couple other videos.
Short answer: The first game allowed you to control Random Encounters, 2 doesn't have Random Encounters(though that's not as influential), and both games have AMAZING music and extremely in depth combat.
@@user-Adrian_Stamate just that? controling random encounters was a thing at least since the og FF8 some 10 years before BD so it must not be what the OP meant.
and of course jrpgs without random encounters are even older than that.
@@goncaloferreira6429 good point, like I said I will do a video eventually and when that happens I'll have a more in-depth answer.
@@goncaloferreira6429 Many forget - or weren't around to see just how bad JRPGs and the Japanese games industry was in the 00s and early 2010s. Bravely had a strong debut in a new franchise that felt like the classic JRPG games we longed for. SquareEnix received the message loud and clear that the fans still wanted turn-based games. Tokyo RPG Factory was created because of BD's success. Team Asano has thrived because of BD's success and continue to make modern takes on the classic JRPG in Octopath and Bravely games.
Old feel but with new concepts - the dated turn-based combat got the positive adjustment with their brave and default battle system making combat more engaging and strategic. They added QoL upgrades like turning off random encounters and 4x battle speed. Everything can be traced back to the pivotal success of Bravely Default.
By some weird coincidence I have heard the phrase "there's nothing new under sun" in three different TH-cam videos on three different subjects by three different creators - on three consecutive days! That's ironic.
Great video! I really appreciate and like hearing your honest thoughts on this topic, and I agree with a lot of it. This was also very relaxing to watch!
Tales of the Abyss had some of the best character development I’ve seen in a JRPG. Tons of people trashed it because the protagonist was insufferable in the beginning. If you push past that, what you get is pretty great. The protagonist, Luke starts off as this terrible person that both you and the rest of the cast can’t stand. As you go on however, he slowly but surely grows throughout the game. Turning from a selfish brat, into a good person. It’s not just that it happens naturally either. His character vocalizes that he’s actively trying to be better. Often catching himself slipping into old habits and then apologizing. It starts with a cast of characters that couldn’t stand the protagonist. To those who consider him a dear friend that they would risk their lives for by the end of the game. Just watching the progress of those relationships throughout the game was very entertaining to me. The fact that he was flawed is what ended up making it good to me.
Regarding how stale JRPG combat can be, I really liked how Yokai Watch addressed this by making combat play out automatically. Yokai act according to their personality (devoted yokai will heal, rough yokai will attack, etc.) so the strategy isn't in spamming your best moves over and over (they do that for you), but in managing which teammates you want on the field.
Boss fights can get frantic as you switch your yokai out of the frontlines, then back in, and then back out while managing everyone's debuffs. I recommend trying these games, they're not the pokemon clones that a lot of people wrote them off as.
On the subject of over levelling in Xenoblade, Monolith Soft addressed that in Definitive Edition with expert mode. It's not a difficulty setting in the traditional sense, but it instead banks all of the experience you gain through quests and exploration when you turn it on. From there, you can move experience in and out of the banks freely, to the point where you can lower your levels all the way down to when the character first joined the party. It's a good way to self-regulate your experience, and it also makes grinding easier because of how experience gained depends on your level with regards to the enemy's level.
Also, if you like puzzle dungeons, check out the Wild Arms series. The translations for the first two games aren't great, but the stories are a lot of fun, the music is phenomenal, they have interesting characters, and they're filled to the brim with really engaging systems.
was really cool to see venaitura shown here, glad you liked it!
Demon Gaze might be what you're looking for at the 9:20 mark with stat and appearance customization in a turn based JRPG. It's not a full on Character Creator but you can choose from a variety of portraits for your entire party and eventually unlock alternate colour palletes for each portrait and aside from the main character you can choose the party's class and species.
Amazing video! Did you ever play Octopath Traveller 2? That game has one of the coolest final + postgame boss sequences I’ve seen in a JRPG, worth a video in itself.
It basically becomes a new game just for a single battle, a bold move I can’t see any other genre capable of doing as well as it did.
Fantastic job covering everything amazing about this genre. It’s been my personal favorite my whole life, and I can certainly identify with your connection to FFIX. That game and Star Ocean 2 were my intro to the genre way back when I was in 3rd-4th grade.
So important to talk about the thrill of breaking the game. You can do it in plenty of games, but there’s just nothing quite like how you can do it in JRPGs. The multitude of different systems you have to manipulate and overlap is such a feat of strategic effort and it’s so rewarding when you pull it off just right. Honestly, the Star Ocean games are my personal favorites for this.
Out of curiosity, you ever tried Monster Hunter Stories? I’ve never gotten into Pokemon but can appreciate the appeal. MHS is one of few Pokemon type games that I can really enjoy (Ni No Kuni being another, but even then MHS just has everything for me.)
The reason why I find jrpgs far superior is simply. These games are made by people who love video games and not by business people. Jrpgs are unapologetic, they never try to make excuses for what they are and what they made. And most of all, they are made for people to have fun. American games are just expensive and flashy. And they rip of their fans with all the DLCs and microtransactions. Whenever people whine about games having become bad I know immediately that they are talking about American games. Because for jrpg fans, now is just as good of a period as ever. Jrpgs are consitantly good. You know what you get and I like that. Take the Ys series. Even fans often say that the graphics are outdated. But they don't care because they know exactly that they will get a very fun gameplay. You know exactly what you will get. A game with mid 2000s graphics but super fun gameplay and a decent story.
So glad you’re still making videos. You’re one of the last TH-camrs that doesn’t blow the YT algorithms with annoying thumbnails and that makes me happy
I did not expect this video to start with my favorite childhood jrpg. Guardians crusade is an underrated gem.
GC kids are a rare species, glad to have you in the herd.
Great video, you shoudl try out the Trails series. I'm sure you would love it.
Damn, the Gateroom theme from Riven got me totally vibing. I will have to replay that entire section of the video to hear what you said, lol 😅
My favourite RPG came out in 1988 for the Famicom (though the better ways of playing it are, for now, the SNES and GBC remakes) and in it, what story it does have, very much takes a backseat to the exploration and the adventure, and that's *Precisely* why it's my favourite! They just don't really make games quite like that anymore...
(It's Dragon Quest III)
I really enjoyed what I played of that one! I played the SNES remakes, which I think has some incredible pixelart and music. Very relaxing time.
I think people who nag about "the power of friendship"-trope are people who've never experienced loneliness or friendlessness. There've been periods in my life where I didn't have any friends and playing a game where a group of friends stick together through thick and thin is incredibly touching
I'm at that point in my life and that might explain why I've been craving JRPG's so much lately.
Earlier this week I was searching for a video essay on this very topic, thank you for reaching into the collective consciousness to bring this one to life
Lovely video! I had hard time with turn based games from start but loved action jrpg. but turned based grew on me and now JPRG is one of my favorite genres!
Baldur's Gate 3 winning loads of Game of the Year awards has brought a hell of a lot of "Turn-based combat is always bad" people out of the woodwork, and of course the ones who have actually sat down and tried BG3 have learned that turn-based combat can in fact be fun and engaging and grant you a lot of control over your characters. It's almost as though confining your gaming experience into strict genre bubbles makes you miss out on cool stuff! Who knew?
That does not make JRPG gameplay good tho
Only JRPG I played with good combat is the SMT games cause at least you need to think a little
And trust me I tried A LOT of them like TTYD, FF7,9,Earthbound etc
Bro play strategy games like Fire Emblem, if you want to keep it simple play the old ones (GBA), no bs random encounters except skirmish but they are optional iirc and more strategies than 40 year old Dragon Quest of spamming heal, attacks and grinding over and over. @@m4shsmash8
Because they are and always have been. I made the unfortunate (or fortunate really) decision of trying to jump into BG3 after finishing FF16. I absolutely adored the fast paced, devil may cry like combat in 16. I finally felt like I was doing all those cool things you see in Final Fantasy action cut scenes. To go to that, to what BG3 called " combat" was so jarring that u just put the game down and decided to come back to it at a later date.
Turn based, is just not fun. Not when there are way more interesting and way more involved ways of combat.
That's just how I feel and I feel others are on the same wave length. It's not a new sentiment it's just that people are being more vocal about their dislike of turn based combat.
@@NineToFiveGamerUC0079 It's almost as though confining your gaming experience into strict genre bubbles makes you miss out on cool stuff. Who. Knew.
@@m4shsmash8it's because Jrpg fans love to grind to be OP and games are for the most part designed around that. Look at FF8, imo that game gets so much hate because enemies level scale with you, nullifying your superiority unless you grind magic instead of normal Battle leveling or Games like Lost Odyssey which I love and is held in high regard But the few Negative reactions to it are always the fact you can't grind levels in that game, as it is designed against grinding.
I relate to so much of this, that's fantastic, thank you for this.
Great vid and topic. Good to see your content again.
Thank you! It's good to be back.
glad to see you’re still around and making work with passion. personally im under the impression that the hate for japanese-style rpgs (really hope to find a better name someday) is mostly a taste thing. a lot of the things they get accused of are honestly common to a lot of game genres or at least follow logic that doesn’t hold a lot of water when compared to other genres. most games in general are “pretty easy” (which is. a wholeee topic), and tropes are basically what define genres in the first place. and I think the particular problem they suffer from is that a lot of people america/europe have knee jerk reactions around earnest tones, pluck, twee, etc, and that our cultures relationship with time means a lot pf people have a really hard time acclimating to things with relaxed paces and don’t necessarily put challenge as their primary goal. I love them and hope to enjoy many more in the years to come, along with so many other genres (also visual novels contain some real gems and its a shame that taste makers have failed when it comes to championing them)
In my head I categorize games as follows: not a jrpg, kinda a jrpg, and definitely a jrpg. My favorite is the "definitely a jrpg" category, but you can't go wrong with any of the categories.
Yes and no. Some JRPGs to me feel like they focus entirely on missable content. That's usually fine, but sometimes they hide the "good" ending behind something you'd have to restart a 70-120 hour game to fix by the time you notice it. Often those are some solid games and the bad ending often isn't really that bad, but I think there's a special place in Ohio for that approach to storytelling.
Oh hell, not Ohio! 😱😂
(Agreed, tho lmao)
thankfully this isnt something you have to worry about often (especially not these days) but holy shit is final fantasy x-2 horrible for this.
to get better endings, you need completion points. theres a completely missable completion point at the very start of the game for talking to a character that’s out of the way. you straight up miss completion points for skipping cutscenes before bosses. getting a worse ending for daring to skip a cutscene after your first boss attempt is so wildly sadistic that i dont even know how the system made it into the game
I just want to say the wanted in 5 states and unwanted in 45 line made me chuckle
the title should be "why I like jrpgs" or "why jrpgs are such a good genre"
The Tales of Games have risen the bar for me, especially after playing Tales of Xillia 2. The expansive post game, followed by EX New Game. :)
Tri Ace games have similarly expansive post game content and Star Ocean as a series was basically started by designers from the first tales game and is sort of a sister series to Tales.
JRPGs are one of the few subgenres within gaming where we can still get a quality story with characters. And not only that, they are also a good return on investment from a gameplay value AND resell value.
Many gamers LOVE to collect JRPGs, especially physically. PS1 copies of certain JRPGs still command high prices based on their conditions; Digital releases of some of those games on various consoles have softened the blow of gamers wanting to play & enjoy these games, but for those who want to have something to have & hold in their hands...having those old CD cases with the artwork, the black bottom disks...they are nostalgic and make you feel like you are holding something sacred that is getting harder to appreciate with each passing year.
It is understandable that companies tend to focus on future projects to keep churning out new games and new experiences. But they must not forget what built them up in the first place, and seek ways to continue enabling legal access to classic games for current and future generations. Official emulators/apps on consoles, backing projects to port these games for compatibility/function on modern consoles, charging reasonable prices...there are ways to still make money AND to honor the past. Companies just need to understand this and endeavor to do the best they can to make it happen.
Ive rarely seen a video that so squarely encapsulates how i feel towards a genre and medium. I love jrpgs (SMT and DQ in specific) and have rarely vibed with the western equivalents because of their swords and sorcery/tolkien elf energy. Completely nailed a sentiment i don't see discussed too often.
Guardian Quest is such a throwback. I've been trying to think of the name of that game for YEARS. It was so much fun
A personal fav to this day. I streamed/reviewed it a few years back and honestly appreciate it now more than ever. Very sweet, genuine story and a great sense of humor.
oh I would loooove that Bravely video!!! I agree the combat is SO good
Love this! Well done!
you're stuff stopped showing up on my subscription feed. I've always loved your stuff man. this was a good video. keep going.
Thank you! I plan on keeping it up for a long time :D
I can't remember if you said "melodramatic algebra" or "melodramatic statistics," but holy shit was that the most hilariously reductive description of the genre I've ever heard. Thank you.
I originally watched your Zelda videos when they came out and I was barely in High School. It makes me incredibly happy to see you still putting out your thoughts into the world over ten years later, only more well-spoken and better presented. Not sure where I'm going with this besides just wanting to say that I get really inspired by folks like you I guess. Here's to another ten years, be it about games or some other media or something more novel, I hope you'll keep sharing your thoughts with the world :)
This comment made my day, thank you 😊
I like JRPGs and Western RPGs and some kind borrow mechanics from each other these days. I like it when they splash other genres too. Card game minigames, kingdom building/basebuilding with npc companions, recruiting lots of heroes to expand your roster and fill up your town/castle/etc
Good video! I hope you enjoy your holidays!
My first video game I deemed my favorite was Super Mario RPG and it was because I couldn't play it for many years (on account of giving it to a family friend who lost the game) that I developed a longing for games similar to it. Pokemon scratched the itch but it wasn't until Paper Mario that the flame I felt with Mario RPG was rekindled. I then eventually got access to the internet and found so many flash RPGs on addictinggames and Newgrounds which was actually how I was exposed to Square Enix RPGs since some games like Block RPG and Superstick RPG 2 "borrowed" music and I wasn't aware of any other SNES RPGs or PS1 RPGs. The journey I've had with JRPGs is wild since I always wanted to experience the high fantasy stuff that I read in books like Redwall, Dragonlance, and Gregor the Overlander but JRPGs specifically just got the high fantasy feeling RIGHT. I don't think I would have craved JRPGs as much if I didn't grow up a voracious reader.
To this day though, the greatest JRPGs I've played are the Rance games where the worldbuilding, cast of characters, and hilarious yet questionable actions of the titular protagonist Rance. Nier Automata, Chrono Trigger, Radiant Historia, and Demons Roots are probably right below that in my mind.
i agree, JRPGs are the only genre i've enjoyed as a kid until adulthood, idk how to explain it but theres just a very VERY comfortable, cozy, happy vibe when you start one, filled with a lot of hope, motivation, you really do go on an epic quest that escapism can provide, i do enjoy western rpg's but nowhere neat as much, ive sunk hundreds if not thousands of hours into fallout and the elder scrolls and while they provide a more accurate medieval setting, theres little variety, jrpg's hhave sooooo many diverse enviroment, settings, everything. from the AAA to the AA to the indie's theyre all good lol
I'm a simple jrpg guy. I hear Trails music, I watch the entire hour. Also I love the party dynamics of Tales of Berseria. I hope Falcom takes inspiration from it one of these days.
On the subject of the terms 'jrpg' and 'wrpg' I've always hated the names for the genres. Back in the day we used to use the monikers 'console rpg' and 'pc rpg' and it worked wonders before IGN popped that stupid wording into existence.
Dark souls plays mostly like a wrpg, but people will argue that it's a jrpg while bug fables is a jrpg but was developed in Brazil.
It does the same thing, but is more clearer and gives you a more concise view of the product.
What's the background music from the closing thoughts? Great video by the way
If you haven't yet, play the Trails series, starting with Trails in the Sky. It's really good. Great video !
Agree completely!
Agreed. I love JRPGs although admittedly have played many different series besides Pokemon, Yakuza, a little bit of Octopath Traveler, and Megaten (which is compasses other series I've played like Persona, Shin Megami Tensei, Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner, etc.). Though one thing I dislike about JRPGs how overly complicated systems seem to be and when there's too much happening on screen at the same time, that's part of the reasons why I dropped Octopath Traveler despite the appeal of 8 protagonist. It's why I liked those JRPGs I mentioned because they are relatively easy to understand and all of them except Pokémon (especially the past few generations) still capture the perfect level of difficulty for me to enjoy them. I really like seeing the progression from being weak and developing my character/s into something that take on any challenge the game has to offer. Though for the life of me I will never understand the appeal of western RPGs aka CRPGs, I'm not much of a fan of Tolkien-like fantasy, there's too much going on-screen, and overall they lack the coolness factor that a lot of JRPGs have.
While my first console was the Intellivision, it wasn't until the SNES that I truly found my calling in gaming courtesy of Final Fantasy III (VI): JRPG's. This video is everything I wish I'd been able to express over the years in defense of the genre. And yes, I do like western RPG's and CRPG's as well, I just enjoy JRPG's a bit more. Thank you.
I love RPGs. The games that convinced me I wanted to develop games when I grew up were Super Mario Bros. 2 and 3 and Mega Man 2 and 3 on NES, when I was 2-4 years old. The game that convinced me I _can_ develop video games was Zurich's Zinfandel Theater (ZZT) on PC, when I was six years old. The game that showed me a game can be more than jumping, punching, and shooting in an obstacle course was Dragon Warrior I & II on Game Boy Color, when I was ten years old - and buying the strategy guide as well as the game cartridge showed me how heroes, enemies, and items can be described as five columns of numbers (HP, MP, ATK, DEF, AGL) and a one line description of further effects or special abilities. Without knowing D&D was a thing or how it worked, I was able to basically make my own tabletop RPG by reverse-engineering Dragon Quest stats onto paper and making up my own mechanics for chance to miss an attack or the like.
RPG Maker for PS1 I used as much as I could, but had to rely on chance overlap of visiting my cousin while another cousin visited and happening to bring the disc along. On PC I tried using pirated copies of the PC RPG Maker 98, 2000, and XP but they never worked so I turned to indie engines as an alternative. Since 2003, I've been developing games in the Official Hamster Republic Role-Playing Game Construction Engine (OHRRPGCE), the same engine behind the Axe Cop and Kaiju Big Battel licensed games, the hilarious meme game Megaman Sprite Game that was all the rage on TH-cam a decade ago, and a couple other games I consider significant but anyone who doesn't use the engine has likely never heard of (Okedoke: La Leyenda Mexicana and Spellshard: The Black Crown of Horgoth being my two stand-out favorites).
Xenoblade is very anime, but while it does have a lot of "shonen" aspects it definitely skews more "seinen", especially as the story progresses. Also, if you're a fan of breaking systems for stronger builds, make sure you dive in to the skills and skill links, it's one of my favourite aspects of character customisation in the game, and I always found it disappointing that it didn't carry over into the sequels.
Cool video dude! Playing multiple JRPGs at the same time seems to be the logical way of going about it. These days normal people haven't got much time to sink into a single game. It is more likely that you might get a holiday weekend or a couple hours off, which is handy if you're looking to grind some experience in, say, the needlessly over-hated FF VIII, or to reach the next story beat in any Mana game.
IMO the best JRPGs do not overstay their welcome (which easily throws FF VII disc two onwards straight in the trash heap) and are extremely easy to pick and, more importantly, drop. The ones on the Nintendo DS should be up most people's alley because you can literally shut the lid with little consequence.
So it might not just be an ADHD thing, especially in this era of pervasive Tinder and TikTok.
i had a feeling i would agree with literally every take in this video and i do lmao
Caveat: haven’t watched yet
But
I’ve been going through my backlog of good to just okay JRPG videos in Watch Later and was gonna go find another one somewhat reluctantly when this shows up as soon as I sign in and I cannot tell you how stoked that makes me
I can tell how much you love jrpgs and I'm right there with you. I've been trying to start playing more because there's many that I'm familiar with but haven't played. But also I have a few thoughts about your video.
you sound like you're especially defensive of the genre. like you've been hearing too many people say turn based systems are inherently bad game design, or that jrpgs are too repetitive, or some other dismissal. I get it. it can be kind of frustrating to hear people dismiss things you like, I've heard some of those same comments too. and I don't see the problem with bringing up these comments, they're a good springboard to talking about why those systems can be fun. plus you had some really good points about different types of games in the genre, and how they suit different players. And you offer some criticism, like your problems with the final fantasy battle system. no comment, I haven't played one.
But then you got to the western rpgs and your issues with them. talking about how a lot of them seem focused on tolkien and elves and having similar settings. I thought hey, isn't that some of the same issued you were just trying to defend jrpgs against? a lot of them do have some similarities in setting. I don't have a problem with that, it's just I thought you were making a comparison intentionally. I haven't played many of those games either. I was expecting you to immediately start talking about dark souls.
But then you ended like your entire video with "oh no people are still going to take everything I say out of context and bash me for it aren't they?" Nah dude, I'm reading some comments and it feels like everyone is on your side. you got a bunch of people who like jrpgs and they're here on a video singing the praise of jrpgs. not sure if you'll convince many new people to try out a jrpg but the video was a great exploration of the genre.
your comments aren't a dealbreaker on the video I just wonder if anyone else was put off by your, I don't know. slight lack of faith in the audience to listen to you.
You really nailed so, so much of what I love about my favorite genre from my favorite medium. It's really the genre that has the best of everything games (and many other media) have to offer. Also, I absolutely love The Power of Friendship™ and ragtag groups of unlikely friends overcoming impossible odds/murdering (a) god(s)/helping God overcome depression. Never gets old for me, I cheer every time xD
I feel a lot of what you note about western RPGs as well, and they're largely what ends up keeping me from engaging with many of them, though I have been wanting to try a few. I also love that eastern and western RPGs have really been looking to one another for inspiration again, both evolving into a sort of symbiotic fusion that will allow the genre as a whole become even more diverse and interesting than it already is!
I'm a big turn based fan and I cannot state enough how much I appreciate you bringing up how middling FF's combat is, particularly the ATB system. As someone else who also shares a passion in the subject of game design (particularly in JRPGs), I try to tell people this in various locations of the internet because it's something that needs to be pointed out whenever there are discussions on this topic.
Yeah. I currently playing battle chasers for the first time and it's turned based system BLOWS Final Fantasy 1-6s turned base systems out if the water.
I will say rhag FF7s ATB + Materia was indeed super fun though
@@sheercold26 Yeah FF's equipment and progression systems have been consistently pretty solid (VIII, XV, and XVI notwithstanding), but man do I hate having to wait arbitrary amounts of time before I can start menuing again. I also didn't like how FF usually falls into the "spam strongest thing to win" trap that a lot of older JRPGs fell into. It became less about strategy and more of a repetitive slog to play.
Sorry if this is a random request but do you have a doc where you list the music used? Some of these are bangers
Excellent video! Earned a sub!
Dude your journey is so similar to mine. We had a SNES, and I have some fond memories of me and my mom playing it together but my first, in my room all the time console, console was the Playstation. I had played stuff like Donkey Kong, Mario, Pokemon (I consider this something different from a classic JRPG), Crash Bandicoot and Tekken. Good games. My first JRPG was FF 8. I remember renting it from Blockbuster because the back of the box looked insane. I saw that intro and the rest is history. The characters, the graphics and the MUSIC.
47:00 I positively failed to minmax BD while also somehow managing to play on hardmode, so my experience was kinda scuffed(I didn't manage to beat the true ending). And because the second half of the game is really boring and redundant besides some cool sidequest-dialogue, my advise is to just go to the bad ending as soon as possible. That's why it is great that this time they decided to localize their final mix-release right away and instead leave the original version on the table because that end was not a thing originally, as far as I heard.
Something kinda funny is that I found out one can just skip some fights entirely. A later midboss that was a Zombiedragon I think straight up just has instant death resistance but no immunity, so just throw a few revives at it and it dies(oops). One of the main bosses is also undead and they actually remembered to give it instant death immunity...but you can just yeet an elixir at it with Bravely Second to do infinite damage to undead enemies.(Yeah, removing the damage cap when using BS was *not* a good idea)
52:05 I mean, there is a good reason why these days, we are specifically writing out the contractions as being about the part of the world the style is often associated to, rather than where the product actually came from. Kinda like how there are a lot of "Wiener Schnitzel" that do not come from Wien and thus have to be worded slightly diffrent, but everyone knows what is meant.
I actually always kinda shake my head at people say it is exclusively games from japan, because like...if I make a Xenoblade 1 inspired game that just changes enough to be legally destinct, is that a WRPG just because I am german? It's the same JRPG setup and progression-structure and all which a preexisting JRPG game already did, just with my own spin on things.
I'll be honest, the intro didn't give me a lot of hope, but man am I glad I stuck with the video! It was a well thought out and had some good points! Plus your thoughts on Western RPGs were actually pretty fair and mostly subjective! It's totally cool if they don't appeal to you in the same way!
I practically live in Tetsuya Takahashi's walls at this point so if I see xenoblade I am contractually obligated to click
I agree with you with playing multiple rpgs at the same time. I like the game but sometimes I want to play something different after playing a game for a week but comeback to it later
I basically agree with all of it tbh, and I really like the juxtaposition of how JRPGs eases players into the complexity, while WRPGs often dump it on you from the beginning. Like even PF: Wrath of the Righteous which you say do a good job of explaining when something happens... starts the game the most complex part of its system; character creation. Which, granted, NEEDS to be in the beginning, and it's one of, if not THE most engaging part of TTRPG games. It still makes it so hard for someone like me who have a hard time wrapping their head around pages of information... even if they'd adore it in the long run. It's no doubt the biggest reason I tend to prefer JRPGs... the second biggest is hating play/pause combat xD
One exception though that I VERY much hope you get to play some day soon... Baldur's Gate 3, because HOLY FUCK!!! IT'S SO GOOD FUCK!!! I know you've played and enjoyed Divinity: Original Sin 2 (and I've barely played 10 hours of it and don't know how similar they are or not), but BG3 is... basically all the good you listed of JRPGs *and* WRPGs. It's made to be, and is balanced around being turn-based, with the sprawling LABYRINTH of stories within stories, is mechanically pretty deep (while adding/removing things from base D&D 5E), but doesn't overwhelm players with pages upon pages of information on HOW TO PLAY. It's fully, FULLY voice acted (with the cast being payed what they deserved, fuck yeah) AND have tons of flavourful books to read with varying degrees of importance to the plot. Absolutely some shortcomings and have some information overload (especially for folks not familiar with D&D), and how they mitigate it isn't always the best, but it's just... a beautiful game in so many ways...
... so what I'm trying to say, I hope you get to play it, and that you like it enough to make a video about it~ 😂💗
The very inception of JRPGs with the OGdragonquest was by some shmuck seenig how cool ultima was, and thought to himself, we could sell this crack to children, if only we removed any need to think. Violá, you jave rpgs with no rpg mechanics. How wonderful.
Hey emcee, have you ever played earthbound? Would be a cool symbolism video in the future, love your videos btw
One of the few consistent forms of entertainment mediums that goes from a small rural life to meeting and defeating a higher entity
And chances are you'll have a cute/annoying companion that you will protect at all costs in the end
my system for playing big RPGs is playing shorter games in between. like cuople of indie games then jump back to RPG pool
Haven't seen the video yet, but the title is indeed correct.
Surprised that with this video, you didn’t delve into the accessibility the genre has for making stories via the medium of games. I really do think RPG maker and just RPG tools in general are one of the best mediums to tell the kind of stories you want to via the medium of games. Platformers are also relatively simple but I think they take a lot more to create a compelling narrative. Same for puzzle games. RPGs strike a nice balance of the importance of the story and gameplay being relatively par.
Don't think I didn't notice that Xenosaga ost, very nice choice
Is that what the music at like 36:00 is from? I recognize it but can't place it, and I'm leaning toward Xenosaga
Really like the term "decision noise"
30:40 ooh, there has to be some lord of the ring fanfic about that SOMEWHERE.
I would totally love to have a video of your thoughts on the Bravely Default series. I really loved Bravely Default and Second, but the changes in Bravely Default 2 made it disappointing for me, personally.
My first ever jrpg was persona 5 royal and it had great music, a great story and great gameplay. I loved it i even got persona 4. But one day in 2022 or 2023 i talked with my uncle and i asked what is his favorite game. And he said ff6 or i think he said ff7 as well so i said I’ll try it or something like but i wanted to because i respected my uncle and i think he’s cool he also introduced me to dnd. I got ps+ and played ff7 remake and i loved it. I really loved it and i fell in love and got ff16 and i like it, other people dont but i like it, it has its ups and downs but anyway after that i got ff6 and im still playing it. I love jrpg’s, i used to be scared of like buff and debuff spells and stuff but got used to it.
Why are the best videos so underrated
"shimi gumi tumi" haha nice
The power of friendship trope is based, fight me. We are social creatures, to the point that many evolutionary anthropologists posit that our intelligence and language emerged from early social interactions
Honestly I think FF13-2 has an absolutely fantastic battle system. I think 13 is pretty good too but the sequel executed it better. Lightning Returns combat system is absolutely amazing.
Based take. Lightning Returns is bar none my favorite combat system in an RPG. It's the perfect hybrid of turn based and action combat. I actively went around looking to get into as many battles as possible, trying to get the final species monster to appear, just to test myself against them.
Hell yeah! Also i started on Normal mode and the game is NOT easy. It actively lucked my ass.
This is y I love Aidyn Chronicles the First Mage with all the Lore & Unique Characters That have there own lives & reasons for existing so I'm glad the Cheat Death Spell exists lol
Fighting games. I will die on that.
The thing I love about jrpgs is that they're as varied as games like lost odyssey, tales of arise, elden ring, sekiro, bloodborne, dragon quest, chrono trigger, valkyria chronicles, fire emblem, final fantasy tactics, xenogears. I can go off.
Fromsoft games are not JRPGs, and neither is Valkyria Chronicles.
@@egoalter1276 wtf are you talking about??? Souls borne games are literally rpgs made by Japanese companies which make them jrps lol
@@y_magaming9798 JPGs are a genre defined by a common set of design choices. South Park the Stick of Truth, Hylics, YIIK Supermario RPG, Star Renegades and Undertale are all JRPGs, despite being developed outside of japan, and King's FIeld, Deamon's souls, Armoured Core, Yakuza, Front Mission, Dragon's Dogma and Castlevania are not JRPGs despite being RPGs developed in Japan.
@egoalter1276 yakuza is literally a jrpg, same as dragons dogma. How are they not jrpgs when they're all like every other jrpg built on stats??? The only thing different is the hubs and maybe build orientation. This is the stupidest thing I've ever read and anyone that reads what you're saying walks away more dumb for having read your words.
@@y_magaming9798 Both of them are action RPGs. There is no point in arguing with you.
I think you could have been a bit clearer when you're talking about storytelling in what you mean by a good story. There are tons of examples of fantastic storytelling outside of the RPG genre and in shorter games - Titanfall 2's campaign, Celeste, the original Silent Hill games, most of Supergiant's catalogue, you name it. Not all of those are necessarily groundbreaking, but they're well-executed. RPGs are absolutely not unique in having good stories.
What I think you were getting at, and where I agree, is that these longer-form genres like RPGs and visual novels are uniquely suited to being able to tell sprawling epics because of their structure. They have the room to let those more expansive, intricate plots breathe and take shape over time. You could probably even argue that you kind of have to go for a grander narrative in a game that long, or else you're going to be spreading things so thin that it'll quickly get boring. But I think you glossed over a lot just by saying that good stories are rare outside of RPGs - there are just as many writers "swinging for the fences" in other genres, it's just that it looks a lot different when they hit one out of the park.
(Also, I'm an FF13 apologist, I actually really like the combat and almost all of the characters, but I 100% agree that the pacing in that game is definitely its biggest problem. It's atrocious.)
I understand the argument that most books, t.v. shows, & movies will have "bad" or "mediocre" stories. But *most* games genuinely do have issues with writing & storytelling.
Nintendo itself says games should be treated and made like toys for children (hence no stories). When the "face of gaming" is a mute d'ckhead it is going to be super rare we get platformers like Klonoa, or Ori, or Celeste that do put a lot of effort into their stories.
Pick up any given game, there is probably a 90% chance it is going to rely on violence or competition to overcome its challenges. And I would bet $20 that there is a 70% there is no story, or no more than 1 review for the game mentions the story. Unless we talk about Turn-based RPG's or Visual Novels. And the main reason I am so confident is because I do deeply value writing in video games, and it is so hard to find games that actually try.
Now here is a video I can get behind. JRPGs are the best genres.
sometime ago, around when mw2 came out, i told an aquitance of the time "soon all games will have rpg elements", they got really mad with me and i also kinda hate i was correct 😗