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What if Wakaba Won? (Utena discussion & speculation)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2021
- What if Wakaba had won and killed Anthy? What would a Black Rose duelist victory look like?
I'm not sure how to label this video necessarily, since it's not quite straightforward analysis the whole way through, but it's also not quite a theory video either... It's a bit more speculative, I guess? Curious to hear what you think of this format.
Some related links you might be interested in:
Our main Utena analysis series: • Introduction to Revolu...
Utena ranking videos: • Revolutionary Girl Utena
#Utena #revolutionarygirlutena #Ikuhara #Anime
its worth knowing that Wakaba is implied to be Utena's replacement in the final episode! so Wakaba is kind of special, just overshadowed by Utena
That’s actually really cool to know! Wakaba is the only one that stands on equal ground with Utena without being something “owned” like Anthy. They also have similar personality traits and a stalwart, gallant disposition.
This is a very interesting video and super well done!! the one thing i disagree with is Mamiya "replacing" Anthy, because i think Anthy IS Mamiya, but like how she changes herself for each person to get them to fight (Looking like shiori in some scenes to Juri, making Miki think shes a replacement to Kozue, etc etc..) she's doing the exact same thing for Mikage by changing herself into Mamiya, but it was never Mamiya, it was always Anthy
That's what I think too, but perhaps I had some trouble articulating that! I view Anthy as either transforming into Mamiya physically or (just as likely imo) simply appearing to Mikage as Mamiya without literally transforming (like it's an illusion she's able to take advantage of due to Mikage's desperation and confusion).
Anthy is the literal personification of the ideal "woman", in the broadest sense, she appears differently to everyone because the ideal "woman" is literally different for everyone, on another hand, the ideal woman being a dark-skinned woman who falls in love for another woman is a very meaningful subversion, in the sense that when the majority of people think what is the ideal woman, they do not imagine a black lesbian, this cartoon was far ahead the time.
@@ws6778Anthy is actually Indian not black, but i do agree with your reasoning though someone like Anthy would never be my ideal not because of her skin color but rather because I don't like backstabbing, manipulative doormats.
Honestly the fact that Wakaba is the closest to actually winning and the connection between the Onion Prince and Miakge is why I always save those two episodes for right before the finale of the Black Rose Saga.
Theres a light novel where Saionji and Wakaba accidentally meet outside school in like a mall or something and then they have really cute fun together. Saionji even attempts to buy Wakaba a gift that "would be useful" like a cooking oil or toothpaste.
Anyway later Touga manipulates Saionji to fight Utena (actually Wakaba in disguise) and then theres this whole thing and Wakaba wakes up in a hospital bed and receives a present of toothpaste.
The light novel is crazy and Touga is PRIME SCUM in it, probably the most villainous Touga ive seen so far. He doesnt seem to be interested in Utena at all aside from manipulating her, only wants Akio and his power, playfully asks Saionji on a date which shakes Saionji and makes it clear he does want Touga only for Touga to go "haha jk that would be DISGUSTING :^)" and also drags Miki to the bed with him. He is kind of a lot of fun. If Akio does surgery on peoples souls to make them docile, LN!Touga just hacks at them with kitchen knives. Which, in the series, its because he's inexperienced, and in LN it seems like he likes it that way.
Sorry this comment has been mostly about Touga. Wakaba would never forgive me for this
Ahh, yeah, I remember that light novel! What a trip.
Where can I read it?
This makes me hate touga even more
It would take Wakaba years to realize it was all Akio's doing. By then, it'd be too late. Too late for anybody but her to care, so much time for him to slither away to his next nest of victims... It's how it happens in real life to victims that age even without adding in holograms, magic swords, ghosts, and the ego murder of a potential goddess.
Nanami had to see first-hand Akio/Anthy's secret sides to get an idea of how dangerous they are, and Utena didn't realize until she was flat-out told and stabbed in the back... So I think you're right about Wakaba.
You know, thinking of the movie as another cycle of revolution (or maybe partial revolution, as it's only as soft reset), it also shows that vibe of a surface-level change. As if Utena's revolt and Anthy's subsequent quiet stand were not quite enough to break the system. Perhaps it required Anthy's more hardcore rebellion in the film to actually change anything.
Of course, there's a billion and one interpretations to this show and movie, which makes speculation even more interesting. Thanks for the video!
The ending of both the series and film have a sense of optimism for Anthy (and for Utena in the movie). The powers that be are still in control and can't be defeated by one single hero or prince swooping in to save the day-- so the real power and happiness then comes from just walking away from the toxicity in your life and moving forward. That's my current interpretation on that at least.
I see the movie as a sequel to the series, as another reset. In movie anthy is more liberated and makes some of her own choices (such as kissing utena and giving her the sword) and she doesn't haver glasses because she removed them in the last episode of the series. Also, the school is falling apart because akios influence over utena isnt as big and that could be why she was less resistant to the idea of leaving ootori academy or her "coffin" unlike in the show. The movie can be seen in any way as a sequel, retelling...
@@ucsGullt
Anthy is a very fascinating character, specially in the movie, even if was not the original intention to make a sequel, Anthy seems to be the one who was impacted and remembers everything that have happened in the show, the 15 years anniversary comics also reference both the series and the movie, there are many reasons to believe that they all are a continuation.
God I love Wakaba, happy to see Best Girl discussion
Wakaba is the only one who actually runs AROUND Utena to try and act on the words "I WILL KILL THE ROSE BRIDE"!
Which is why it's appropriate that utena defeats Wakaba with saionji's sword. She utterly destroyed the image of saionji and reveals to Wakaba the truth: saionji and Wakaba used eachother to feel special and powerful. But it was doomed from the begining.
Unlike toga who never treats saionji or nanami with respect or care? Utena does this for Wakaba and Anthy. They're both important to her and are on equal footing. Utena proves to wakaba that if she's forced to choose who to save? She will forfeit her own life so the two victims won't suffer.
Ooh, good points!
Although one minor nitpick; wakaba and keiko both had the same amount of time to cool off and both had no real bond with the guys respectfully. Hell keiko doesn't even get the "Temporarily special" treatment till the third arc when touga lies about nanami not being his blood related sister. But as you said, wakaba had a personal link to utena giving her an edge that really only akio had. Wakaba is a dark mirror that sits on a more personal crux than any other duelist, again a side from Akio
As for utena and the other black roses? She did talk to kozue & Shiori but she has more interaction with mitsuru. Her bond with mitsuru is acquaintances at best. The one she has with Shiori and Kozue are basic passing. That is to say? She can put a name to a face and who is important to them. But that's it. She arguably knows more about mitsuru than either of those two. She doesn't even know keiko's name, only her face and that she hangs out around nanami.
In my opinion and headcanon, Wakaba becomes an Utena after Utena revolutionises the world, Wakaba will become a noteworthy student with many good friends and a status as a class president.
Sometime it would be nice to cover more of the depths of her relationship with Saionji and more about what her normalcy means and her relationship to it.
Especially that look of defeat at the end of her episode and what that means in subtext for her mental state for the remainder of the show.
We are planning on doing a more in-depth character analysis for each main character, and part of the Saionji episode (probably the next one after Miki and Juri) would be about Wakaba and their relationship. It's anyone's guess when that will be out, but it is *eventually* coming along the pipeline.
i love your Utena videos so much! i hope you make more in the future. It's also kinda funny to me how soo many essay channels start with Utena omg, like there are a lot of youtubers who's first video is about Utena and their takes on understanding it, and then they continue their video essay journey with other titles. I'm just glad you never stopped thinking about Utena cause i'm also like that, this show truly faccinates me, every time i think about it it amazes me and i just can't ever forget how it impacted me and my own art. Aaaand i love seeing new fan content about it!
My NSA surveillance agent clearly sent you to quench my just now relapsed thirst for Wakaba analysis after all these years...
Please make sure she gets a raise so she can buy onyx rings and "shining things".
Sometimes our NSA agents can be real nice like that. :)
Damn, I just love your videos, especially the Utena ones.
It’s kinda funny how her anger was handled, we never saw this side of her in later episodes, in a way it’s like you said about her type of revolution.
Well, at the end everyone is in a cycle, her being one about mediocrity.
Thinking about it now, I don’t really know if I have a point, but it was a cool video
Yeah, it's interesting how Utena as a series doesn't attempt to wrap up everyone's character storylines. Everyone ends the series still with internal conflict and baggage. The show (and movie too) reject the idea of a definite end... Anthy's off to a new adventure, and life goes on. Wakaba's anger and feeling of mediocrity (I like your word choice there!) is *still there* inside her the way that I think Kozue still wants her brother's attention, Shiori still has that jealousy and spite in her, Mitsuru still is wrestling with what it means to grow up, and Keiko still is on the outside dreaming of climbing the social ladder. These kinds of internal struggles don't just vanish, not even over weeks or months. They'll carry this baggage forward, and we don't see if they handle it healthily or not... We're kind of left with that lingering idea that it could go either way for any of them. I'd like to think Wakaba especially finds ways to be happy and confident in herself and finds people in her life who appreciate her company and enthusiasm for life. :)
The wideo about Utena? In 2021? It's more likely than you think!
Thank you for this, it's great idea ❤️
Very well put together and tastefully considered. This is an incredibly intriguing possibility and well-reasoned too, with discussion on why the other Black Rose Duelists were lacking in conviction, except for Wakaba. Your expectations of what would happen after are sensible indeed. Whatever hollow victory Wakaba wins or prize she is given, along with the "Revolution" that is enacted, doesn't change anything.
This is alternate history. Yes, alternate history is a lot of fun, but not just that - by looking at how things could go differently in a timeline with fixed points of divergence, we explore the significance of those points for the timeline as a whole and for the end results. It really is sad how Wakaba completely disappears from the show, even after she was the one who stood by Utena after the only duel she ever lost, but it serves to show that as a fact of life - people drift apart when their bonds are just not strong enough, which is doubly true when people go through transformative events as Utena did. In the end, nobody was on what was left of the car as it left the school and the castle apart for Anthy and Utena. Gotta prioritise I guess!
Well said!
Dude, how nobody has thought of this before? This idea is worth a billion!!
I’ve always wondered what happened to Wakaba at the end of RGU. Does she eventually realize the reality of the school and what Akio is doing or does she stay the same forever?
It's also interesting that in the movie, she's the vehicle for the other Student Council members... Is that a form of hope for her, being the vehicle here?
I think if she won, she would have spiraled after realizing that she never needed that man to feel special.
Fantastic. It says a lot about Utena when it is still being discussed by totally new angles.
i loved this, i love Wakaba and a revolution for the characters that nobody sees coming from a distorted revolution after all its a revoution product of Akio and product of a usage of power and manipulation so therefor it would break the status quo yes, but it would only open for a new status quo that revolves around the same
wouldnt it be interesting if Wakaba pulled a sword out of Utena instead of the sword of Dios in itself, but rather her own sword that represents the relationship between Utena and Wakaba, idk why i think it would be really interesting
Thank you for covering my favourite character
Love this video!!! Could you please do a video on nanami or juri?
We're currently working on a Miki video, and after that video, the plan is a Juri video with one for Nanami planned for sometime in the wayyyy future after Saionji and probably Touga. These are big projects though, and I don't know when they'll be done. But we're still planning on discussing all the main characters, and I might make more side videos like this in the mean time. :)
I was waiting for this
What if when Wakaba kills Anthy ether by Utena, Sayonji, or both confronts her, or even after thinking about it she realized that she just killed someone how what would now be her former best friend hates her and now most likely wishes she killed Wakaba and the man she loved Sayonji sees the girl he was falling for as nothing but a murderous monster how killed the women he used to love and most likely will cuts all ties with Wakaba somehow snaps back to herself with all her memories from her time as a Blake Rose Dullest go's to find the truth somehow learns about everything and try to confront Akio to make thing right?
first
Kanae video when