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Who is the Real Anthy Himemiya? - Club Chat
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ค. 2018
- Anthy Himemiya is one of the most fascinating and confusing characters in the history of anime. It can often be difficult to tell where the rose bride ends and where Anthy herself begins. Join the Digital Dream Club as we try to parse out who the real Anthy is. This video contains spoilers for all of Revolutionary Girl Utena as well as the discussion of potentially stressful topics.
The background of this video was illustrated by Ann Fry:
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One thing I think the show argues is that, rather than the trappings of adulthood peddled by Akio/Dios, true adulthood is simply the rejection of strict categories and black-and-white thinking. Anthy is not purely "good" or purely "bad", she's a complex character who is ultimately human but is aware of and takes advantage of the archetypes that people hope for. For Saionji, she is the achetypal submissive wife, for Miki she is the "shining thing", and for Utena she is the "Damsel in Distress." Utena is one of the characters most guilty of black-and-white thinking, but unlike many of the others she allows for Anthy's complexity and loves her anyway, and apologizes and attempts to correct her flaws when she makes mistakes. She does not see Anthy's bad qualities as automatically making her a villain, a "witch", as many others do, but she doesn't just brush them under the rug and continue to place her on a pedestal. Instead she loves her, flaws and all.
In the end, the entire point of the show is that Anthy is a complex human being with complex motivations and desires. To try to categorize her as good or bad means you have missed the point of the show. I love that this analysis acknowledges Anthy's complexity, rather than trying to hold her to the shining ideal of "good" or the equally abstract epitome of "evil"
About Anthy seeming like a flat character, I think that’s the whole point the show is trying to get at. There’s this idea that the rose bride is supposed to be a soulless doll, especially to Akio. She’s there so he could use her as a tool for his goals. Since Anthy is stripped of her autonomy and individuality, it only makes sense why she seems so flat and bland. She doesn’t have a choice but to be that.
I couldn’t agree more.
I really like the conclusion you guys reached towards Anthy's reasoning for stabbing Utena in the back. It was fear and selfishness and the terror of change/revolution itself. But I think it's interesting to see Akio look and seem confident that nothing would change, heck, he even sips on a milkshake while Utena tries her hardest to revolutionize the world, Anthy is the only one afraid of what Utena could do bc she's seen up close and personal what Utena has done. It's almost like Anthy got cold feet, cheering on and manipulating events so that Utena always comes on top only for the end for her to be afraid that *this is actually happening*. It's like, she's torn between wanting to be freed and wanting to be where it's not necessarily safe but familiar and comfortable. She does tell Akio the coffin is cozy in the last few scenes of RGU. The mind of an abuse victim is physiologically altered so that they are fine tuned and tapped into the negative interpretation of things over the positive. Anthy gets to be free and safe for once in her tortured life and she's afraid. And I have to think that Anthy stabbing Utena was also an act of internalized homophobia because she's not being freed by a male knight in shining armor but by a girl prince. She tells Utena "you could never be my prince because you are a girl" but i think the word for prince almost means something like "boyfriend". And that's right! Utena isn't explicitly transgender so she couldn't be a boyfriend or a prince. But the show rejects her being a princess as well, seeing Utena in a dress feels wrong, Akio taking her in as a child bride is also most definitely wrong. Because Utena is delightfully gender nonconforming and could some day be Anthy's partner. It is just that the feeling of being in love with a woman feels so wrong to Anthy even though she loves her so much. Calling it an act of kindness is sort of a strange way to interpret Anthy's stabbing but it kind of makes sense, it just sounds wrong and antithetical to the common idea of kindness, but that just expresses how messed up Anthy is. I think it's better described as a mercy kill as was mentioned in the video. They don't have to go on with the "disgrace" of a girl Prince revolutionizing the world and can just safely fail with Akio taking the win. Anthy regrets the decision clearly, it's clear even up til she is disassociating while the swords stab her over the arena. Utena's decision to keep helping her is really really beautiful because she still knows this isn't what Anthy really wants. Akio doesn't want failure but is comfortable with it as long as he is in control but he doesn't understand what he's even saving so he was never going to win. The End of the World was just about saving Anthy from abuse, not actually revolutionizing an entire planet or it's society like everyone thinks. Society is broken and pervasive, like how Anthy is abused and manipulative but she's the one worth saving and loving in this hell world. Sorry for writing a novel in your comments i just really love Anthy Himemiya:')
Fun fact: the voice actor for Anthy once said that Anthy is the kind of girl she'd be afraid to introduce a boyfriend to because she's so mysterious and magnetic. Just some food for thought
For the backstabbing scene, the fact akio intentionally shoves Anthy toward Utena, to me reads as his expectation of what Anthy is about to do. It’s a shallower reading but I think it’s still her following the will of her abuser. Because that’s her true coffin, and it takes her months to finally leave
Why does Anthy owe the world anything when the world treats her like crap?
I think something that needs to be acknowledged when we talk about Anthy is her age. She's so old that the blip of human lives is almost meaningless, and she's spent the majority of that time in agony and isolation. She's also stunted by this because she's been trapped since her childhood (so to speak) and lashes out at people in childish ways which would normally just be annoying, but she has so much power it's traumatizing to others (I even felt sorry for Nanami!). It's the standard superhero question: what happens when a god gets angry or is devastated? What does a god's tantrum look like? I also think it's interesting that an antagonist is positioned in front of the superhero question, but maybe that's a reach.
I have always thought of the series as the anime being "freeing Anthy" whole the movie being "freeing utena" because of the focus and growth differences
What do you guys think of the idea that Anthy, by stabbing Utena, was trying to save her from the sisyphean curse of becoming The Prince?
That's how I interrupt it
"if there's a hole, he will be there" sums him up pretty good
He is pretty bad
I have not even got to that part of the video and i already know who are you talking about lmao
i dont believe that anthy is an abuser. Manipulated and groomed? yes, but she is not an abuser. Her brother Akio was an abuser. Touga was manipulative, and possibly abusive if he had gone any farther. Anthy is not an abuser. She did as her brother told her to do. Her brother manipulated through her. As you said, she is flat on the outside and its easy to project onto her, and many of the reasons is because she was abused. That doesn't excuse in any way some things she did, but overall she was a heavily traumatised girl, and utena only helped her and guided her in the direction of healing. Anthy had to take that final step.
But this is so heavily wrapped up in the fact that most abusers are abuse victims, I think what makes anthy different is the fact that she decided not to accept things as they are.
I loved this chat on what is possibly my favorite character in all of existence!
I would like to pitch a little idea, if y’all don’t mind.
I totally understand why you guys think that Anthy was being selfish when she stabbed Utena… but I would like to argue that interpreting that scene as purely “selfish” may miss a few key points from episode 38 and 39. In episode 38, as Utena begins to gain the upper hand against Akio, we can see the frame focus on Anthy’s eyes opening wide as she witnesses Utena’s unwavering desire to liberate her from Akio. In this moment, Anthy seems both amazed by Utena’s love for her… and *absolutely horrified* as she sees her entire world literally falling apart right before her eyes.
Anthy reacts to the crumbling of her her world, the only word she has ever known; with fear. And who can blame her? She has experienced unrelenting physical, emotional and sexual abuse at the hands of her own brother and has had her world completely reshaped and rebuilt around his reasonings for his abuse. And suddenly that world, the structures and illusions that have made this abuse “justifiable”, crumbles before her very eyes. She loves Akio, bound to him in a myriad of complex and ugly ways. She has aided him, willingly and unwillingly, in building this world-in maintaining it through violence. She has helped him, has manipulated others for him (perhaps even out of her bitterness) over and over again. And suddenly as she watches Utena fight for her-love and devotion propelling her forward, overcoming all obstacles, all attempts at manipulation-this world falls apart before her, taking all she has known with it.
But, this is where things get even more complicated because Anthy has *changed*. She is not the same girl we met in the first episode. She is not only driven by her own complicated feelings as survivor of abuse… She is now also driven by her love for Utena. Anthy’s is not only afraid that the walls of her world are coming down... No, she is also afraid of *what this will cost Utena*, the girl who so desperately wishes to be her True Prince.
But where am I getting this? Well, we see this illustrated in episode 39, as Utena reaches into Anthy’s coffin, pleading with her to take her bloodied and bruised hand. As she looks up at Utena’s tear stained face, the dialogue goes like this:
Utena: Himemiya!
Anthy: Utena-sama…?
Utena: Himemiya… At last, we meet…
Anthy: (realizing what has happened, realizing that Utena got back up and has actually found her) Utena-sama!
[The frame pans outwards, letting us see that the Swords of Hate are no longer stabbing Anthy, but are in fact circling around the arena, seemingly looking for their new target]
Anthy: Utena-sama!
Utena: Himemiya, give me your hand!
Anthy: No! Get out of here! The swords…!
Utena: Your hand…! Now…!
Anthy: No! If you don’t hurry and get out of here…!
Utena: Himemiya… Hurry! Your hand…!
Anthy (looking away): Please…
It isn’t until Utena makes it clear that she is not going to go anywhere that Anthy, overwhelmed with emotion and crying, even reaches her hand out, though you see it hesitate for a second.
So, why is Anthy warning her about the swords? Well, because according to Ikuhara, Utena is a “fool”. Utena is naive and has no idea what would actually happen if she were to truly become Anthy’s Prince and shatter the world Akio has constructed in it’s entirety. Utena does not understand the structure of this world, the systemic inequality and violence the Prince’s Role requires. The Prince, in all his masculine and heteropatriarchal glory, requires a sacrifice, a Witch to bear the violence and hate of the world on his behalf. We see this happen earlier in this same episode, as the Swords of Hate scream in the background after Akio’s taken Utena’s sword. Akio hears them and quickly calls for Anthy to take them in his place.
But Anthy knows that Utena would never do what Akio did, not when her goal is to free Anthy from this entire cycle of abuse. But Utena… naive and focused solely on liberating her dear friend does not know all of this.
Thus, it is through Anthy’s desire to save Utena from what she will surely bring upon herself that she acts to immobilize her before she puts herself in even more danger. Anthy acts to burn Utena in the worst way possible so she doesn’t get back up. Because this is the only way that she can save her friend from the fate she has had to bare for god knows how long. So, she stabs her. Not before looking at her one last time. Not before kissing her shoulder as if asking for forgiveness. She stabs her and throws Utena’s biggest insecurity in her face. *You can’t be my Prince because you’re just a girl… so give up; stay down.* She says this not because she believes it but because she wants to protect Utena. She uses her one sword in hopes of sparing Utena a million more.
This is why I think Anthy is such a masterpiece as a character. She is a girl who has had to bare the brunt of misogyny and gendered violence for hundreds of years and who is suddenly for the very first time in the entire series, weaponizing some of that misogyny to spare her loved one a fate worse than death. But she fails of course because Utena is pure of heart and loves her too much. Her act does not stop Utena-it actually motivates her further, as Dios and Akio taunt her and make clear that they don’t have any consideration for Anthy’s suffering at all.
Great job! I suggest you put the word "Utena" in the title of the video so that others can find this video if they are looking for Revolutionary Girl Utena content. I was looking for analysis for this series for a long time and I have not come across this video or your character analysis videos very easily. Just a suggestion so more Utena fans can enjoy this and your character analysis series. :)
I agree!! Def do this
I love this video
I think that in the moment when Anthy stabs Utena, she does that because que believes that she have to do it for her brother. Because of the manipulation, she believes that her brother "lost his powers" because of her fault, like it shows in one show of the theater of the shadows
So, all she do, is because she feels that she have to pay all what happend to her brother
(Sorry for my bad English :( )
I think, unless the perspective of anthy is a significant fabrication, Akio’s death is entirely his doing.
It seemed to me that Akio new what he was doing was evil. But as long as he could pretend it didn’t happen (or shove it into a corner of his personality that wasn’t “him”) he could live with it to some extent. The drug essentially is used, I think, to make anthy in to a non existent thing.
Once she shows that she was aware of the whole act there’s no way that akios monstrosity can solely reside in his head - it’s completely real now there was an aware participant even though they give the impression they were part of it willfully. Once it’s established real akio can’t live with it and has to kill himself because the monstrousness can’t be denied anymore.
This was a really great discussion, it's a shame this video doesn't have more views. The points you made about Anthy's contradictory nature is a great example of Ikuni's writing style. He seems to really love juxtaposing positive and negatives in such a way that it leaves the viewer weighing the validity of 'good vs evil'. Its pretty genius.
Wow. Just wow. I really like Anthy's character, and you guys just described much of why she is like that. You are totally right she's just so complex and difficult to classify as just one part of herself.
Loved the video, you deserve far more recognition.
This was so good. I really like the conflict and reconciliation between different POVs, how through each person we got a different nuance to Anthy. I look forward to more content!
~Sen from EM Server
I read Akio's death scene in the movie as a commentary on Japanese purity culture. Akio rapes his younger sister, but, when he realizes that she was aware of it, it tarnishes his image of her, making him impotent, and he kills himself over it.
This is super cool, I like all the points you guys make about Anthy. I can't wait till the next video!!
(I’ve only seen the series once, I’m sorry if this is inaccurate). I think Anthy’s ability to play the part of what her others want her to be is also a form of conflict avoidance. She is a pretty passive character, and doesn’t really seem to resist anything that happens to her, at least for most of the series. Taking on someone’s interpretation of her as a false “personality” could be her way of making sure that they don’t get a glimpse of her real thoughts, opinions, ect. She was vilified at a young age (BY AN ACTUAL MOB.), for not letting Akio live out his role as a “prince” at the cost of his life, and I can’t imagine she’d want to face that kind of thing again (this is also the earliest example of her standing up for herself/what she believes in that’s shown, and she’s stabbed in response, multiple times, by grown adults). That’s probably why any instance of her controlling someone is usually subtle, because the last time she told people to back off, they responded with physical violence. So instead of enforcing boundaries, she uses manipulation. And because trauma and how it affects her is a such a big part of her character, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that she’s so passive and willing to act as whatever someone wants her to. It’s a trauma response. Or at least, that’s my interpretation.
AWESOME chat, thank you all for sharing your thoughts about this amazing character, i agree in a lot of things, and the things i don't agree with have made me understand her in other ways. Thank you so much. I'm subscribing to the channel, so I'll see you guys around ^^
pd: I also love Anthy so much, even if don't fully understand her
People have so many views on this show. How did I miss it? I liked the show not because of anything special but just the flow of the story. Am I missing something?
26:00 i think the word you are looking for is mercy
Re: trigger warning...
"Stuff *like* abuse" ??? 😏😌🤭😂🤣!!! Oh, you sweet summer child, that's putting it SO nicely 😭!! Lol, I love how y'all told people to go binge watch it in the mountains somewhere and come back. Basically that's been me for the last 20 years. I'm *READY* 🤓🙌🏾
19:13 that was an act of kindness for akio, to save akio. that was not an act of kindness for utena, she isnt thinking about utena during that scene
i think its possible that in that moment, in the presence of akio, she forgets aboutwho utena is and tries to "save" utena from being someone she isnt supposed to be. her brother offers utena the role of a princess and gives her a dress and promises he will protect her, and utena refuses. Anthy doesnt want to understand why she does that or why someone could ever do that, because she believes her brother: that not being a princess is utenas doom anyway. i think part of the manipulation anthy faces borrows from misoginy and uses traditional roles to explain why she has to be who she is, and in the moment shes saving akio, she believes him. so she also, in that moment, believes that being a prince is bad for utena and not just a danger to akio
cause i think in the video they meant anthy is saving utena from being the princess, but at the point of the stabbing, utena has already declined being the princess
loved this
Am I the only one who thinks it's pronounced (YOU - tina / U-tena) not (Ooo - tina)?
Anthy is both manipulated & a manipulator, and thus complex.
We don't know Anthy, because Anthy doesn't know herself.
You pronounce "U" in japanese as your "ooo" and not as "you". "You-tena" you would write "Yutena". Your Style is an english one.
English: “You-tena”
Japanese: “Oo-tena”
As a student which of the subjects would u put Utena under? (Psychology philosophy and or law )
i've watched utena only once and still am confused about stuff, like why does anty want to keep the duals? is it 'just' because that's what her brother wants or because she thought that she could escape if they continued?
It possibly started as those things but then she became so tangled in the cycle shes on auto pilot now
This is too big brain for me 😭
Wait till y'all watch this: th-cam.com/video/RGwSw2nTJ4g/w-d-xo.html
I just realized that Touga and Anthy are pretty similar and when you remember that they are kind of each other's blindspots in the series it hits different
There happens to be a detailed analysis about that: empty-movement.tumblr.com/post/177081751389/the-body-as-a-bargaining-chip