Konami in Duel Links: try not to hit URs because it hurts players too much financially Konami in Master Duel: try not to hit URs because it helps players too much financially
Like the fact that Konami seriously think they can manage the game without hitting UR's is ludicrous. Konami needs to stop jumping at the short term profits for the long term. I half blame the community that continues to reward Konami for this nonsense too. Any other playerbase would have revolted by now.
Konami saw 1 guy played 1 game with 3 diameter, won, never played 3 diameter ever again and in the stats they saw "Diameter at 3 has 100%WR? we need to do something"
Even the TCG has always had this problem. It's like getting mad at the tides for sinking your boat. And this banlist was pretty good all things considered.
@@LightshaverConstellation the MD whales whale HARD, and the people who aren't whales but want to play every new deck make them an alright chunk of change too. But like, look at the cost if a full royal rare deck.
Literally every card game does this. Magic bans entire boxes every time they release a new box, at least in Yugioh only specific cards are hit. This way you can at least continue playing the decks you like, in magic you can't even do that.
@@brago900 I think you're misunderstanding how Magic's meta works. Magic isn't like Yugioh, where archetypes are xenophobic; often you'll see decks like "red-green aggro" or "black-white sacrifice" or similar. Those decks aren't the type that are wiped out by a set being legal, they may lose a few tools, but they're not getting banned wholesale by any means. And even in decks that revolve around one specific card or interaction, if that card goes out of rotation then that's really not much different than, say, Yugioh banning the dragon rulers. Plus, you can just go play Modern or Pioneer or Pauper or Legacy or one of the many other formats that don't rotate (and yes, those all see play, it's not like Time Wizard format where it's just a sideshow)
Pretty much yeah. This banlist may not have gone as far as Josh would like, but at least it didn't look at a format that was basically unplayable and declare "This is fine. This format does not need any major course correction." This is what last month's banlist, which WAS worse banlist ever material, should've been.
Conq to 1 and Analyser to 2 when the problem cards were floodgates and Block Dragon.Laolao to 2 when the problem was VFD and Long Yuan to 2 when the problem card is Protos
bro dont give them ideas what will i do if final sigma is at 1 and my opponents kashtira unicorn banishes it??? I can't think of any monster I can make with 3 mathmechs that would win me the game
Two common patterns are: 1. They do not ban cards that they believe will affect the sales of the boxes that are currently available. 2. They don't like hitting high rarity cards so they try to juggle to avoid it until the hit becomes inevitable (sometimes the juggling surprisingly works and sometimes it doesn't). In general, since the banlist is monthly, they have much more room to experiment with alternatives to the hits given in TCG and OCG.
As a Labrynth player, the best way to hit the deck is to ban EEV and Dimensional Barrier. Keeps the deck playable while getting rid of non-interactive auto-win cards that result in non-games.
@@dantevic Yeah, but the timing needs to be perfect, and sometimes they'll summon the monster that forbids response to their traps (dunno if it's lovely or lady) before activating the trap you needed to Ash. So it doesn't hurt them as hard as it hurts other decks.
I feel the real problem is that we dont have dev blogs or smth where they explain their thought process. I've come from LoL where we have extended dev blogs about pretty much every aspect of game, so we may not agree with them but at least we know why they are doing things. Even Marvel Snap has small blogs after every patch...
The problem is that if they were to do this it would be extremely transparent what they want out of the Banlist It's like MBT said, they can't exactly write "We want money" under the explanations to why a card is banned
@@milesandrews6711 They can circumscribe that though, e. g. say that a change is supposed to make the game more varied. When they speak of balancing who says that they don't mean their profits?
@@xCorvus7x if they were to argue that hitting diameter instead of circular was to make the game more varied noone would believe that shit Actually noone would buy it That's the problem, some of their hits are so ridiculous that the only reasonable way to justify them is "we want money"
My only logic to why they hit Stovie is not just because of the consistency in setting their traps, but it's also the better furniture that gets you a body plus one of the monsters in deck that you can usually go into Chaos Angel with otherwise it's just a "hit" for a deck that's being played a lot and became too popular.
2:29 something important note about cynet mining being at two now, it is also a structure deck card, so people like myself who bought 3 decks, can't dust their third cynet mining, unless konami lets us. What a nice hit, thanks for wasting my gems
I’ve been saying this from the start and Tear confirmed it for me. I knew the Purrely hit would be Delicious, my friend, or a cat off of rarity alone. I knew this from release. I figured if kash became meta, they would hit Shangri and birth.
Master duel dev doesn't even play the goddamn game, just look at the first banlist, Rocksies and Lao-Lao to 2 like wtf, people play it at 2 anyway, Conquistador is the funny one because it's still on the list to this day.
I don't play master duel so I'm not sure what the Mathmech lists look like there but Diameter in the TCG would actually be an impactful limit. If you don't want to get nibbed diameter + a name is the only consistent way to avoid it. In a format with 3 circular, it also means if alembertian gets negated laplacian won't get a negate when summoned with superfactorial. Personally I also perform this limit rather than what happened in the TCG. Mathmech players were saying since mystic fighters (and especially after ROTD) that the deck didn't have any starters, which was what was holding the deck back because the rest of the cards were already pretty good but you needed 2-3 cards to do anything
Whats crazy to me is how they are just like Drident from 1 to 3 totally fine 0% chance this comes back to haunt us. Then they are like HMMMM Tempest to 2 just incase. Like wtf Tempest is a pack filler common card why are we being so careful with the dragonrulers 😂
@@joshmountain9705 i remember that when MBT did the unbaning 2/3rd of the banlist, quantal didn't bother putting any of the rulers, the bystials are just a strictly better option and apart from tidal and redox, the other 2 dragon rulers are trash by today's standard. Tidal is a foolish burial that needs you to open another water monster which won't happen in dragon link and redox is a reborn that needs you to open an earth. Playing the baby dragons doesn't let you use their secondary effect either since they need to discard. The rulers were a XYZ and beatstick strategy, they won't combo well with dragon link. Weirdly enough, they would combo amazingly with kashtira, all level 7 and arguably the best ruler, redox, is an earth that can banish fenrir and start combos.
@@centurion2396 makes sense. I remembered seeing them used in one of those tournaments too but checking now it was pre bystial. I think Konami's paranoia is rather founded though. The rulers are very clearly old design philosophy.
Realisticly whats the issue w labyrth like outside of eev and barrier (which arent labs fault) I dont rlly see what the issue is like yh it can play or turn 0 If u wanna make that less consistent semi limit or limit clock
Or saying that a welcome trap should go to one, basically killing the whole grind game of the deck. Lab is actually pretty fragile to hits, that's why I'd rather see the trap floodgates gone.
This whole banlist was like "hey guys, we made a banlist but didnt really feel like doing anything so we made some useless hits, also D-link is slightly worse"
If coder is right Stovie actually makes sense since a lot of people in lower ranks will surrender after a stovie activation so its win rate might be higher than big welcome so they hit that instead of
They are definitely using win rate rate when played, they spammed the win rate of cards during worlds when played, but agreed yugioh does not work this way. I was also going to say Exodia shows this is bad logic if this is the case.
Do you think Naturia Ruinick will still be playable in MD ranked? Really enjoyed watching it and was building it up and just need a couple of URs to finish it
I can't believe we have a rival for the May 2022 one that limited Conq and semi'd Analyzer, Cobalt Sparrow, Rocksies, Fraktal, Torn Scales, Fusion Destiny and Laolao for MD's absolute most out of touch banlist
Diameter hit actually does matter a lot imo, at least for the pure mathmech strategy. Significantly hurts the follow up which was one of the things I liked about it as a pure deck.
They hit Stovie because they want less targets that can be bounced by Big Welcome, and they wanted less Turn 1 set up to exist. I think Chandraglier should have also taken a hit to lower the consistency further, but they're probably waiting for the final wave of support in Butler.
Considering the explanation for the bans especially Fountain and Diameter, is it really the case that the ones behind the banlist actually play the game? Or is there this mythical “Konami Quota” that is looming over them on what to hit or slap on the wrist? Hence the avoidance of URs getting hit.
Pure Mathmech (that no one actually plays) need the omninegate, so a better hit would be Laplacian. The OTK Mathmech strategy (originally intended for the deck) doesn't rely on Laplacian, but cards like Circular and Diameter are essential.
@@armandonoriega681the OTK strategy is not the intended way to play Mathmech, who told you that? The deck was always meant to set up superfactorial to slow your opponent down with Laplacian and then follow up with the OTK Blind second dosent work because Mathmech doesn't have good board breaking tools(ironically other than Laplacian)
@@milesandrews6711 Of course it is, just read the effect of ALL the Mathmech cards, not only the cards that are currently used. You have to do the math so that you can win with a single attack of its real boss monster, Geomathmech Final Sigma. All Mathmech cards have effects that 1) modify the attack 2) change the number of attacks or 3) special summon, all what is needed to OTK. Laplacian and the trap are the option if you are forced to go first cause they give you disruption, or follow up if you summon Magma or Alembertian instead. The boardbreakers are obviously non engine, just like in any other deck (lightning storm, harpies feather duster, kaijus, forbidden droplett, red reboot), but even Magma and Laplacian could help for that. Link climbing is NOT what the deck is intended for. It has no link names and it needs the extra monster zone to apply the most important effects in the OTK calculation (unnaffected boss Final Sigma, double attack of multiplication, double number of attacks of Nabla, Half attack of division). And that is why Mathmech is the most unique cyberse deck; its strategy is based on Synchro and XYZ summon, not link climbing like any other cyberse deck.
Super happy about the fountain hit. Nobody likes playing against runick or its variants. Its not fun watching your opponent shuffle their interruptions back, and draw 3. Likely new interruptions. Every turn. As a quick effect. And likely protected from destruction.
@@armandonoriega681 hmm, yeah that’s a possibility. So it’s still 1-for-1 for one card for one less negate (no microcoder or fusion monster spell negate)
10:49 - Restricting the maid over Stovie would've been one of the WORST hits to Labrynth if you wanted to limit its power. Stovie works going 1st OR 2nd, despite not being able to get monsters can still get the Field Spell if need be, summons itself, can be used to summon Chaos Angel, can still trigger its effect once on the field, *AND* triggers the recovery effect of Cooclock! Meanwhile, Arianna can search Lady, Draw a card, and summon a monster... but won't be able to search if your opponent has Ash... or Imperm... or Veiler... or Droll if you used Extrav/Prosperity 1st. You know? Only SOME OF THE MOST UBIQUITOUS HAND TRAPS IN THE ENTIRE MOTHERFUCKING GAME??? 12:18 - I barely see Runick *PERIOD!!!* It's total bullshit!!! Konami Employee 1: "Hey, Kashtira is literally everywhere and has no bans despite having cards banned in *BOTH* formats, has the single most powerful form of removal in the game, can lock down your zones, has a walking Macro summonable from the Extra Deck that gets back materials for its most powerful effect by just playing the game, and can recover literally any monster as long as your opponent isn't ALSO playing it, should we do something about it?" KE2: "NAH! In fact, why don't we shit on some other decks that haven't seen any play whatsoever?" KE1: "JUST AS LONG AS WE DON'T BAN SPRIGHT ELF! OKAY?!? WE CAN'T MAKE SENSE BY BANNING A CARD SO CLEARLY BROKEN WE NEEDED TO BAN IT IN BOTH FORMATS! I'M FUCKING SERIOUS!!! WE *CAN'T* MAKE *ANY* SENSE!!!!!" KE2: "I know, this is literally the 31,044,013th time you and every other person here has said that, we all know the rules. But I was thinking we shit on something *_other_* than Spright this time? Since we basically have "Runick but better in literally every" way in Purrely, (nice job on making it even more insufferable by making them cats by the way) I was thinking we could take a massive shit on Runick and give a light tap on the wrist to Purrely just to rub AIDs infected blood in the wound?" KE1: "That's stupid, nonsensical, and cruel. I fucking love it! Meet you at 5 for the usual puppy torture murder sesh?" KE2: "You know it buddy! Oooh, make sure you put in a good word with the boss during your meeting on Thursday, I really want to get on Satan's good side." 13:01 - I thought this was Circular for the longest time (i.e. until I was writing this comment just now) because I have more than 2 brain cells and didn't allocate the focus and brain power necessary to look more closely at something that *MUST* have been Circular. And here I thought I was being comedically hyperbolic with the above bit...
I’m a labrynth player and I will tell you hitting arianna would’ve been worse Cause yeah stovie summons itself But arianna literally searches anything so if you open arianna 1st turn is always better than opening stovie and yeah hitting stovie kind of make it more rare to full combo turn 0 but overall not very big of a deal
update jammer to 0, diameter to 0 instead ( you can still otk shockingly without diameter), limiting both small world and mining instead of just mining etc there are many not like anybody is playing cyberse without mathmechs for us to care abt mining this much
Either of the xyz to 0 would be a massive hit. It wouldn’t kill the deck because you can still link climb with circular but it would nerf the superfactorial degeneracy.
@@Terwano i think if they laplacian to 0 mathmech literally doesnt have a turn 1 thats why i didnt mention it alembertian to 0 is fine though thats a really big consistency hit but it would kill the deck
@@cvubini You can make Darkfluid + Singularity with 1 Circular. That's a massive turn 1. Or you can make Darkfluid + heatsoul + cynet conflict. You have a lot more than super factorial.
@@Terwano Then try making that after getting disrupted 2-3 times. At best you would end at Heatsoul. There is a reason why Superfactorial is really good because you can just dump any 3 Mathmech in graveyard and it's still usable. You don't even really need Diameter but it does became a staple since it's essentially a free negate. Unlike link climbing where there is alot of Nib and imperm moment where it can mess up all your combos. Cyberse deck aren't like Tearlaments and other "slap in your generic omni negate" deck. Diameter in hand is usually the reason why most of my play goes through just because i have that single omni negate turn 1 for safer play. Without it you can just sit on nib until the end of main phase and it still would be fine, they would only have Superfactorial anyway. And Superfactorial have lots of ways to get disrupted, so if you are doing "0 Diameter" that's just killing the deck.
Not bad for filling the banlist. Some cards are released to increase the power of some decks and reduce the consistency of some decks as well. Even so, it's still funny because there are worse cards to ban but they choose cards with a lower ratity which obviously don't have much impact in the deck itself, but it's a different story if they ban the worse cards. This reminds me of when the "tearlament" cards were released.
Imagine to draw the two Purrelys 🥴 even drawing one of them limits the plays. Maybe we should start looking at cards like Monster Reborn or Kinka-Byo to have more excavations with Purrely.
I'm new to Master Duel and Purrely is my first deck so I'm happy to see the hits are pretty minor, I expected Sleepy to be hit but I understand now that they don't like to hit UR's so I guess the draw 6 combo still survives! Hope Epurrely Noir comes out soon!
I think the banlists in masterduel are generated by AI that reads the success rates of cards. then the devs alter it slightly to not remove staples that are just good not too broken. Next banlist they will ban diameter....
I think josh underestimate hit on Stovie.. I try play with new banlist today and what i feel: 1. Less turn 0 play(setting trap from deck during opp turn) make the deck bit more slower.. 2. Less frequency of summoning Chaos Angel, your Arianna really want to search Stovie or Big Welcome and Clock, So sometime you dont have access to Stovie at all.. 3. Also reminder in OCG they still has 3 Stovie and 3 PoE and they have Transaction Rollback.. Here in MD we got 2 Stovie 1 PoE less consistency to open the engine.. Hard to setup 2 Welcome so more easily lose to single Ash if we only setup 1 Big Welcome..
True but honestly I don’t think the consistency is that big of a problem. The real issue with Lab is blowout traps. Get rid of those and I’d argue the deck is pretty balanced by modern standards. The deck just wins if you have no interruptions but you could argue that for almost every modern deck
You’ve gone from a 57% chance to see 1+ furniture to a 50% chance, and this is only hard drawing it, not including pots. Realistically it’s about 91 to 90%, not even close to significant
@@maxwellabelson7794you're talking as if lab was a normal combo deck that has several lines of work to make an end board, lab is a control deck, they not being able to set up the welcome traps is devastating.
@@Kintakui want every single floodgate to get banned, eev, d barrier, the continuous traps, every single one just so people can realize that everyone complains because they can, they'll find ways of saying that now daruma canon is the problem, or any other trap card that can interrupt their plays.
I feel the whole point of lab is the grind game, of course the deck can otk with the right cards, but every single competent deck should be able to do that, hitting stovie hurts both because of consistency and because of the grind game. There are so many ways to banish both stovie nowadays that having it at 2 is dangerous. Just to count the most popular decks, d link, runick and kash can banish both stovie really easily.
Stovie semi was such an amazing joke hit. It's hilariously ridiculous. I'm pretty sure everyone knows at this point that the banlist team are Lab players.
The Diameter limit is insteresting, it might not be a huge hit but should still be a somewhat decent nerf to mathmech, however fountain to 1 ain't it, should have been runick tip but with fountain at 1 is pretty much not worth playing the deck
you are undervaluing the diameter hit quite a bit. While it isn't the most impactful hit it still hurt pure mathmech quite a bit since it removes their best turn 3 follow-up/top deck and it makes the deck more susceptible to d.d. crow or the bystials since now you can snipe it at the end phase to remove the omni negate. That being said this is a pretty bad limit that only hurts pure mathmech while not affecting it's most unfair aspect which is its turn 1. And worst of all there was such a perfect hit they could have done which didn't involve limiting circular, that being banning Sigma. This mostly kills mathmech use as an engine in other cyberse decks, it stops it from being a 1 card combo, it leaves Mathmech at a better place than it was pre-circular and it's an SR so Konami avoids giving out UR points.
yup just semi limit or even limit Big Welcome then stovie at 2 is still good so we have less turn 0 games and they might be forced to play full 3 lady labs and less consistency on the floodgate traps
Konami will keep hitting consistency instead of ceiling for a few reasons It continues the power creep that forces people to either play daily for gems or buy gems to get new decks that keep up It gives bad players a chance to beat good players simply because of hand draw RNG And It creates a dopamine loop with people chasing the high of a blowout win rather than boring repetitive games
If konami MD don want to hit circular. The card there must hit will be sigma to 1 copy, because sigma is main combo pieces. Banning sigma will automatically make circular from being 1 card combo to 2 card mathmech combo, and completely kill superfactorial combo from XYZ laplacian.
Small defense for the Diameter hit to 1: on 3 with the link they can simply send another one. I naturally preferred to see different harsher hits, but all these hits sort of seem in the line: People invested to make these meta decks, they will be pissed if it gets harshly hit. Also since every month there is a banlist, they can afford these minimalistic type of hits on each meta deck.
You're never hitting diameter in a mathmech setup turn though - you'd only try to banish it on your turn when they triggered superfac. If you have a bystial/crow you either fire on sigma or save for your turn to stop the trap. Hitting diameter preemptively has never been an optimal play, and even with the card at 1 it still won't even be considered. Before the new support, you often needed diameter in hand to extend through Ash/imperm and still get full combo. Now you just need any cyberse in hand you can normal/special after being interrupted in order to send diameter with terraherz
@@ct1296 I didn't say anything about pre-emptively. You naturally chain bystial/dd if possible to superfactorial. My point was more intended at the recovery capabilities with cards like equation/splashmage at turn 3. And don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it is a real hit to the deck as the turn 1 plays stay unaffected.
@@lmr4403 sorry I get you now - I just feel like that doesn’t matter at all, since mathmech is such an aggro-style deck that probably loses if its unable to use its main disruptions
The MD banlist has a clear objective: Make decks bricky, and therefore give even the worst decks wins sometimes because they bricked less than the opponent.
Imagine playing NaturiaRunick or any other Runick combination except RunickFloodgate and they manage to ban your only Fountain, because maybe they play Kashtira how can you play the game after that, even banning 1/2 fountain is problematic because if hugin gets negated you have no fountain which means you have no reliable Runick engine
Konami in Duel Links: try not to hit URs because it hurts players too much financially
Konami in Master Duel: try not to hit URs because it helps players too much financially
Nah in Duel Links too it would help players, they ain't opening a box three times if a card is at two
Komoney: how do we make the most money
Like the fact that Konami seriously think they can manage the game without hitting UR's is ludicrous. Konami needs to stop jumping at the short term profits for the long term. I half blame the community that continues to reward Konami for this nonsense too. Any other playerbase would have revolted by now.
Konami saw 1 guy played 1 game with 3 diameter, won, never played 3 diameter ever again and in the stats they saw "Diameter at 3 has 100%WR? we need to do something"
MD players: complaining about Konami using the ban list as a way to amplify profits.
DL players: First time?
Even the TCG has always had this problem. It's like getting mad at the tides for sinking your boat. And this banlist was pretty good all things considered.
The tcg has this problem much worse. Md is honestly generous enough with gems that I am surprised they make profit.
@@LightshaverConstellation the MD whales whale HARD, and the people who aren't whales but want to play every new deck make them an alright chunk of change too. But like, look at the cost if a full royal rare deck.
Literally every card game does this. Magic bans entire boxes every time they release a new box, at least in Yugioh only specific cards are hit.
This way you can at least continue playing the decks you like, in magic you can't even do that.
@@brago900 I think you're misunderstanding how Magic's meta works. Magic isn't like Yugioh, where archetypes are xenophobic; often you'll see decks like "red-green aggro" or "black-white sacrifice" or similar. Those decks aren't the type that are wiped out by a set being legal, they may lose a few tools, but they're not getting banned wholesale by any means. And even in decks that revolve around one specific card or interaction, if that card goes out of rotation then that's really not much different than, say, Yugioh banning the dragon rulers.
Plus, you can just go play Modern or Pioneer or Pauper or Legacy or one of the many other formats that don't rotate (and yes, those all see play, it's not like Time Wizard format where it's just a sideshow)
Ngl the fountain hit is pretty pog
this reminds me exactly of that one time i searched for diameter instead of circular with cynet mining
Did you have circular in hand already?
no they were just bming probably before going for game@@SenHnk
Propably after Imperm on D'Alembert
I sometimes do that when I open another mathmech lol
Hey Lois
If you think this is the worst MD banlist, you should really look at the first couple MD banlists. It would be good content
Pretty much yeah. This banlist may not have gone as far as Josh would like, but at least it didn't look at a format that was basically unplayable and declare "This is fine. This format does not need any major course correction." This is what last month's banlist, which WAS worse banlist ever material, should've been.
Conq to 1 and Analyser to 2 when the problem cards were floodgates and Block Dragon.Laolao to 2 when the problem was VFD and Long Yuan to 2 when the problem card is Protos
VFD to 1!
I can think of worse hits to mathmech...Addition, Substraction, Magma, Division, Link Disicple, Runick Tip
Ban Final Sigma it is simply too strong in Mathmech!
@@IyoMaestrolmaoo 🤣🤣 can't deal with towers over there 👀?
Answer: white woman jump scare
Runick tip would indeed be an extremely bad bit for mathmech
bro dont give them ideas what will i do if final sigma is at 1 and my opponents kashtira unicorn banishes it??? I can't think of any monster I can make with 3 mathmechs that would win me the game
😅😅😅
Banning sigma would have been funny
GIGACHAD
That would be a sigma hit indeed
no
Im here just to watch Josh punch the air over Diameter
Two common patterns are:
1. They do not ban cards that they believe will affect the sales of the boxes that are currently available.
2. They don't like hitting high rarity cards so they try to juggle to avoid it until the hit becomes inevitable (sometimes the juggling surprisingly works and sometimes it doesn't).
In general, since the banlist is monthly, they have much more room to experiment with alternatives to the hits given in TCG and OCG.
As a Labrynth player, the best way to hit the deck is to ban EEV and Dimensional Barrier. Keeps the deck playable while getting rid of non-interactive auto-win cards that result in non-games.
They're still way too good without the insta win BS.
@@VixYW ash hurts them hard.
eev is prettyyl toxic ngl
@@dantevic Yeah, but the timing needs to be perfect, and sometimes they'll summon the monster that forbids response to their traps (dunno if it's lovely or lady) before activating the trap you needed to Ash. So it doesn't hurt them as hard as it hurts other decks.
@@VixYW its lovely and 99% of the time they need the trap to summon her, so you can just ash it. Only lady can be SS from the hand easily.
I feel the real problem is that we dont have dev blogs or smth where they explain their thought process. I've come from LoL where we have extended dev blogs about pretty much every aspect of game, so we may not agree with them but at least we know why they are doing things. Even Marvel Snap has small blogs after every patch...
That would indeed be great, although it's already pretty neat that whatever you write them about actually seems to get an answer.
LoR also has at least small dev notes on balance changes, absolutely goated team and card game
The problem is that if they were to do this it would be extremely transparent what they want out of the Banlist
It's like MBT said, they can't exactly write
"We want money" under the explanations to why a card is banned
@@milesandrews6711 They can circumscribe that though, e. g. say that a change is supposed to make the game more varied.
When they speak of balancing who says that they don't mean their profits?
@@xCorvus7x if they were to argue that hitting diameter instead of circular was to make the game more varied noone would believe that shit
Actually noone would buy it
That's the problem, some of their hits are so ridiculous that the only reasonable way to justify them is "we want money"
My only logic to why they hit Stovie is not just because of the consistency in setting their traps, but it's also the better furniture that gets you a body plus one of the monsters in deck that you can usually go into Chaos Angel with otherwise it's just a "hit" for a deck that's being played a lot and became too popular.
Well that and stove is also level 2 making sprite elf abuse rampant.
2:29 something important note about cynet mining being at two now, it is also a structure deck card, so people like myself who bought 3 decks, can't dust their third cynet mining, unless konami lets us. What a nice hit, thanks for wasting my gems
As a fellow runick (sprite and naturia) enjoyer with a royal finish fountain, was waiting for this video all day
Honestly I’m a bit surprised they didn’t put diameter to 2 first
as much as possible they dont want to refund UR dust imo
that's why the hit seems to miss.
There have been lists where they hit like 5 UR cards
@@tripleaaabattery8480this is not what generally happens
@@tripleaaabattery8480 that's why i said "as much as possible" 😅😅😅
The only reason they limited cynet mining is because most got it from the salad structure deck
I’ve been saying this from the start and Tear confirmed it for me. I knew the Purrely hit would be Delicious, my friend, or a cat off of rarity alone. I knew this from release. I figured if kash became meta, they would hit Shangri and birth.
Prediction: next pack includes dispater and labrynth butler
pretty sure someone in dkayed’s stream mentioned it would be mannadium but dunno where he got that leak tho
@@dimas-yr8un They've already keept as waiting quite a bit for the final wave of cards related to Albaz.
@@xCorvus7x yup it could be possible
Master duel dev doesn't even play the goddamn game, just look at the first banlist, Rocksies and Lao-Lao to 2 like wtf, people play it at 2 anyway, Conquistador is the funny one because it's still on the list to this day.
The Drident unlimit scared me for 0.2 seconds until I remembered that Ratpier, Broadbull, _and_ Barrage are all still banned
Lowkey ratpier could go to 1 yesterday tho
Rat not being at 1 is really weird, having an Armageddon knight in that deck is fine
I feel if Fenrir can be at three, Ratpier can go to semi limited or unlimited.
@@RazielTheUnborn Fenrir is at 2
Rat could probably go to two and become a very good, but not a broken card.
I don't play master duel so I'm not sure what the Mathmech lists look like there but Diameter in the TCG would actually be an impactful limit. If you don't want to get nibbed diameter + a name is the only consistent way to avoid it. In a format with 3 circular, it also means if alembertian gets negated laplacian won't get a negate when summoned with superfactorial. Personally I also perform this limit rather than what happened in the TCG. Mathmech players were saying since mystic fighters (and especially after ROTD) that the deck didn't have any starters, which was what was holding the deck back because the rest of the cards were already pretty good but you needed 2-3 cards to do anything
Whats crazy to me is how they are just like
Drident from 1 to 3 totally fine 0% chance this comes back to haunt us.
Then they are like
HMMMM Tempest to 2 just incase.
Like wtf Tempest is a pack filler common card why are we being so careful with the dragonrulers 😂
PTSD from 2013 that never healed
Dragon link. That deck can and will abuse rulers if able.
@@joshmountain9705 i remember that when MBT did the unbaning 2/3rd of the banlist, quantal didn't bother putting any of the rulers, the bystials are just a strictly better option and apart from tidal and redox, the other 2 dragon rulers are trash by today's standard.
Tidal is a foolish burial that needs you to open another water monster which won't happen in dragon link and redox is a reborn that needs you to open an earth.
Playing the baby dragons doesn't let you use their secondary effect either since they need to discard.
The rulers were a XYZ and beatstick strategy, they won't combo well with dragon link.
Weirdly enough, they would combo amazingly with kashtira, all level 7 and arguably the best ruler, redox, is an earth that can banish fenrir and start combos.
@@joshmountain9705 dragon link is gonna dragon link with or without the rulers. if either need to be hit its just dragon link lol
@@centurion2396 makes sense. I remembered seeing them used in one of those tournaments too but checking now it was pre bystial. I think Konami's paranoia is rather founded though. The rulers are very clearly old design philosophy.
Realisticly whats the issue w labyrth like outside of eev and barrier (which arent labs fault)
I dont rlly see what the issue is like yh it can play or turn 0
If u wanna make that less consistent semi limit or limit clock
"They miss clicked"
Pretty much how I feel every time Sunseed Genius Loci isn't hit.
With salad getting these retrains of different cyberse cards. I am waiting patiently for "Fire Circular" or something like thaz
At least you didnt have to deal against 6 circular but only 5 😂.
Love the thumbnail so much ngl.
once you realize they were hitting winrates and look at all the cards on the list, the list makes a lot more sense.
Semi-limiting purrely cards hurts way more than semi-ing a different archetype because you can't ever reveal all 3 copies with my friend
Woah dude dont joke about arianna at 1 thats the only real normal summon in the deck.
Or saying that a welcome trap should go to one, basically killing the whole grind game of the deck. Lab is actually pretty fragile to hits, that's why I'd rather see the trap floodgates gone.
They can hit the other lvl4 Ariane to 1, that would be fine.
the problem with Lab isnt Lab cards is the 3 D barier
This whole banlist was like "hey guys, we made a banlist but didnt really feel like doing anything so we made some useless hits, also D-link is slightly worse"
The exodia example was a great way of explaining the prior point.
I wouldn't pick on the cynet mining hit that much, end of the day its potentially going in the right direction on the banlist at least i.e. to one.
If coder is right Stovie actually makes sense since a lot of people in lower ranks will surrender after a stovie activation so its win rate might be higher than big welcome so they hit that instead of
They are definitely using win rate rate when played, they spammed the win rate of cards during worlds when played, but agreed yugioh does not work this way. I was also going to say Exodia shows this is bad logic if this is the case.
"We need to hit Mathmech, we should limit the metal robot with a red background, this will be a big hit"
"Ok boss, consider it done"
Do you think Naturia Ruinick will still be playable in MD ranked? Really enjoyed watching it and was building it up and just need a couple of URs to finish it
konami would be the kind of person whom would rather lose all their limbs than to make a proper banlist
I can't believe we have a rival for the May 2022 one that limited Conq and semi'd Analyzer, Cobalt Sparrow, Rocksies, Fraktal, Torn Scales, Fusion Destiny and Laolao for MD's absolute most out of touch banlist
Diameter hit actually does matter a lot imo, at least for the pure mathmech strategy. Significantly hurts the follow up which was one of the things I liked about it as a pure deck.
yeah... no
They hit Stovie because they want less targets that can be bounced by Big Welcome, and they wanted less Turn 1 set up to exist. I think Chandraglier should have also taken a hit to lower the consistency further, but they're probably waiting for the final wave of support in Butler.
I loooooveee Mathmech
rip
CIRCULAR WILL NEVER DIE!
Considering the explanation for the bans especially Fountain and Diameter, is it really the case that the ones behind the banlist actually play the game? Or is there this mythical “Konami Quota” that is looming over them on what to hit or slap on the wrist? Hence the avoidance of URs getting hit.
Pot of desires is always at 2 anyways
No one gonna say anything about the Pokémon Colosseum OST
I was going to say Gale of Darkness since it’s in both, but yeah. Still great music.
If they really didn't want to hit circular, banning diameter would at least remove the negate from superfactorial.
Pure Mathmech (that no one actually plays) need the omninegate, so a better hit would be Laplacian. The OTK Mathmech strategy (originally intended for the deck) doesn't rely on Laplacian, but cards like Circular and Diameter are essential.
@@armandonoriega681the OTK strategy is not the intended way to play Mathmech, who told you that?
The deck was always meant to set up superfactorial to slow your opponent down with Laplacian and then follow up with the OTK
Blind second dosent work because Mathmech doesn't have good board breaking tools(ironically other than Laplacian)
@@milesandrews6711 Of course it is, just read the effect of ALL the Mathmech cards, not only the cards that are currently used. You have to do the math so that you can win with a single attack of its real boss monster, Geomathmech Final Sigma. All Mathmech cards have effects that 1) modify the attack 2) change the number of attacks or 3) special summon, all what is needed to OTK.
Laplacian and the trap are the option if you are forced to go first cause they give you disruption, or follow up if you summon Magma or Alembertian instead. The boardbreakers are obviously non engine, just like in any other deck (lightning storm, harpies feather duster, kaijus, forbidden droplett, red reboot), but even Magma and Laplacian could help for that.
Link climbing is NOT what the deck is intended for. It has no link names and it needs the extra monster zone to apply the most important effects in the OTK calculation (unnaffected boss Final Sigma, double attack of multiplication, double number of attacks of Nabla, Half attack of division). And that is why Mathmech is the most unique cyberse deck; its strategy is based on Synchro and XYZ summon, not link climbing like any other cyberse deck.
Next they will limit Superfactorial.
Cynet Mining semi-limit is 5-head. Most people got that card from the Salamangreat Structure Deck so they can't dismantle it.
Super happy about the fountain hit. Nobody likes playing against runick or its variants. Its not fun watching your opponent shuffle their interruptions back, and draw 3. Likely new interruptions. Every turn. As a quick effect. And likely protected from destruction.
glad MD doesn't take the boring approach even tho we know why they do this
Hand trapping the rank 4 and if they had raw diameter you stopped nothing. This diameter to one helped with those scenarios
2 Quick Launch and 2 Chaos Space. Stop Konami, my poor dragons are gonna starve :(
What be a better hit to mathmech other than limiting Dia or Circular? I don't see a hit that would do just little more
This might be an explanation but not a justification is such a good way to say it
I think the diameter hit makes alembershen a chokepoint for the superfactorial line?
Still they cand send it to the graveyard with Terahertz
@armandonoriega681 less it get banish before hand. Worse case they won't get the neglect
@@armandonoriega681 hmm, yeah that’s a possibility. So it’s still 1-for-1 for one card for one less negate (no microcoder or fusion monster spell negate)
Cant wait to see his reaction to the Toy cards that search Circular :)
Based pokemon colosseum music
10:49 - Restricting the maid over Stovie would've been one of the WORST hits to Labrynth if you wanted to limit its power. Stovie works going 1st OR 2nd, despite not being able to get monsters can still get the Field Spell if need be, summons itself, can be used to summon Chaos Angel, can still trigger its effect once on the field, *AND* triggers the recovery effect of Cooclock! Meanwhile, Arianna can search Lady, Draw a card, and summon a monster... but won't be able to search if your opponent has Ash... or Imperm... or Veiler... or Droll if you used Extrav/Prosperity 1st. You know? Only SOME OF THE MOST UBIQUITOUS HAND TRAPS IN THE ENTIRE MOTHERFUCKING GAME???
12:18 - I barely see Runick *PERIOD!!!* It's total bullshit!!!
Konami Employee 1: "Hey, Kashtira is literally everywhere and has no bans despite having cards banned in *BOTH* formats, has the single most powerful form of removal in the game, can lock down your zones, has a walking Macro summonable from the Extra Deck that gets back materials for its most powerful effect by just playing the game, and can recover literally any monster as long as your opponent isn't ALSO playing it, should we do something about it?"
KE2: "NAH! In fact, why don't we shit on some other decks that haven't seen any play whatsoever?"
KE1: "JUST AS LONG AS WE DON'T BAN SPRIGHT ELF! OKAY?!? WE CAN'T MAKE SENSE BY BANNING A CARD SO CLEARLY BROKEN WE NEEDED TO BAN IT IN BOTH FORMATS! I'M FUCKING SERIOUS!!! WE *CAN'T* MAKE *ANY* SENSE!!!!!"
KE2: "I know, this is literally the 31,044,013th time you and every other person here has said that, we all know the rules. But I was thinking we shit on something *_other_* than Spright this time? Since we basically have "Runick but better in literally every" way in Purrely, (nice job on making it even more insufferable by making them cats by the way) I was thinking we could take a massive shit on Runick and give a light tap on the wrist to Purrely just to rub AIDs infected blood in the wound?"
KE1: "That's stupid, nonsensical, and cruel. I fucking love it! Meet you at 5 for the usual puppy torture murder sesh?"
KE2: "You know it buddy! Oooh, make sure you put in a good word with the boss during your meeting on Thursday, I really want to get on Satan's good side."
13:01 - I thought this was Circular for the longest time (i.e. until I was writing this comment just now) because I have more than 2 brain cells and didn't allocate the focus and brain power necessary to look more closely at something that *MUST* have been Circular. And here I thought I was being comedically hyperbolic with the above bit...
I’m a labrynth player and I will tell you hitting arianna would’ve been worse
Cause yeah stovie summons itself
But arianna literally searches anything so if you open arianna 1st turn is always better than opening stovie
and yeah hitting stovie kind of make it more rare to full combo turn 0 but overall not very big of a deal
I always played 3 diameter it’s really good to play around hand traps with another extender.
Isn't circular limited in OCG?
Idk how they hit can meaningfully hit Mathmech without touching circular. Firewall defenser maybe?
update jammer to 0, diameter to 0 instead ( you can still otk shockingly without diameter), limiting both small world and mining instead of just mining etc there are many not like anybody is playing cyberse without mathmechs for us to care abt mining this much
Either of the xyz to 0 would be a massive hit. It wouldn’t kill the deck because you can still link climb with circular but it would nerf the superfactorial degeneracy.
@@Terwano i think if they laplacian to 0 mathmech literally doesnt have a turn 1 thats why i didnt mention it alembertian to 0 is fine though thats a really big consistency hit but it would kill the deck
@@cvubini You can make Darkfluid + Singularity with 1 Circular. That's a massive turn 1. Or you can make Darkfluid + heatsoul + cynet conflict. You have a lot more than super factorial.
@@Terwano Then try making that after getting disrupted 2-3 times. At best you would end at Heatsoul. There is a reason why Superfactorial is really good because you can just dump any 3 Mathmech in graveyard and it's still usable. You don't even really need Diameter but it does became a staple since it's essentially a free negate. Unlike link climbing where there is alot of Nib and imperm moment where it can mess up all your combos.
Cyberse deck aren't like Tearlaments and other "slap in your generic omni negate" deck. Diameter in hand is usually the reason why most of my play goes through just because i have that single omni negate turn 1 for safer play. Without it you can just sit on nib until the end of main phase and it still would be fine, they would only have Superfactorial anyway. And Superfactorial have lots of ways to get disrupted, so if you are doing "0 Diameter" that's just killing the deck.
Not bad for filling the banlist.
Some cards are released to increase the power of some decks and reduce the consistency of some decks as well.
Even so, it's still funny because there are worse cards to ban but they choose cards with a lower ratity which obviously don't have much impact in the deck itself, but it's a different story if they ban the worse cards.
This reminds me of when the "tearlament" cards were released.
Imagine to draw the two Purrelys 🥴 even drawing one of them limits the plays. Maybe we should start looking at cards like Monster Reborn or Kinka-Byo to have more excavations with Purrely.
I'm new to Master Duel and Purrely is my first deck so I'm happy to see the hits are pretty minor, I expected Sleepy to be hit but I understand now that they don't like to hit UR's so I guess the draw 6 combo still survives! Hope Epurrely Noir comes out soon!
Dragon link rarely uses quick launch when bysteels exist
Master duel loves their semi-limits huh? 😂
25:33 Joshua Schmidt: „Wir schaffen das“
Fountain to 1... The world is healing. Josh is still trying to justify drawing six.
lmao
I think the banlists in masterduel are generated by AI that reads the success rates of cards. then the devs alter it slightly to not remove staples that are just good not too broken.
Next banlist they will ban diameter....
I don't know, I feel like they didn't
When will Purrely finally get a card that makes it easier to summon Purrely?
I think josh underestimate hit on Stovie..
I try play with new banlist today and what i feel:
1. Less turn 0 play(setting trap from deck during opp turn) make the deck bit more slower..
2. Less frequency of summoning Chaos Angel, your Arianna really want to search Stovie or Big Welcome and Clock, So sometime you dont have access to Stovie at all..
3. Also reminder in OCG they still has 3 Stovie and 3 PoE and they have Transaction Rollback..
Here in MD we got 2 Stovie 1 PoE less consistency to open the engine.. Hard to setup 2 Welcome so more easily lose to single Ash if we only setup 1 Big Welcome..
True but honestly I don’t think the consistency is that big of a problem.
The real issue with Lab is blowout traps. Get rid of those and I’d argue the deck is pretty balanced by modern standards.
The deck just wins if you have no interruptions but you could argue that for almost every modern deck
You’ve gone from a 57% chance to see 1+ furniture to a 50% chance, and this is only hard drawing it, not including pots. Realistically it’s about 91 to 90%, not even close to significant
@@maxwellabelson7794you're talking as if lab was a normal combo deck that has several lines of work to make an end board, lab is a control deck, they not being able to set up the welcome traps is devastating.
@@Kintakui want every single floodgate to get banned, eev, d barrier, the continuous traps, every single one just so people can realize that everyone complains because they can, they'll find ways of saying that now daruma canon is the problem, or any other trap card that can interrupt their plays.
I feel the whole point of lab is the grind game, of course the deck can otk with the right cards, but every single competent deck should be able to do that, hitting stovie hurts both because of consistency and because of the grind game.
There are so many ways to banish both stovie nowadays that having it at 2 is dangerous. Just to count the most popular decks, d link, runick and kash can banish both stovie really easily.
Stovie semi was such an amazing joke hit. It's hilariously ridiculous.
I'm pretty sure everyone knows at this point that the banlist team are Lab players.
The Diameter limit is insteresting, it might not be a huge hit but should still be a somewhat decent nerf to mathmech, however fountain to 1 ain't it, should have been runick tip but with fountain at 1 is pretty much not worth playing the deck
i think that in MD case, doesn't it matter if the card is UR or not
you are undervaluing the diameter hit quite a bit. While it isn't the most impactful hit it still hurt pure mathmech quite a bit since it removes their best turn 3 follow-up/top deck and it makes the deck more susceptible to d.d. crow or the bystials since now you can snipe it at the end phase to remove the omni negate.
That being said this is a pretty bad limit that only hurts pure mathmech while not affecting it's most unfair aspect which is its turn 1. And worst of all there was such a perfect hit they could have done which didn't involve limiting circular, that being banning Sigma.
This mostly kills mathmech use as an engine in other cyberse decks, it stops it from being a 1 card combo, it leaves Mathmech at a better place than it was pre-circular and it's an SR so Konami avoids giving out UR points.
Next banlist, sigma to 2, superfactorial to 2
They took out my boy... My beautiful boy diameter... He didnt event do anything wrong...
yup just semi limit or even limit Big Welcome then stovie at 2 is still good so we have less turn 0 games
and they might be forced to play full 3 lady labs and less consistency on the floodgate traps
I love the background sound of the game pokemon xd in your videos
MD giving josh a coder treatment.
ohno not my 1 copy of Diameter 😢
the guy how makes the ban list is a labrynth player obv
I just started to build a runick spright deck inspired by your 4hr gameplay. Is it dead? I was really excited to play it
Konami will keep hitting consistency instead of ceiling for a few reasons
It continues the power creep that forces people to either play daily for gems or buy gems to get new decks that keep up
It gives bad players a chance to beat good players simply because of hand draw RNG
And
It creates a dopamine loop with people chasing the high of a blowout win rather than boring repetitive games
If konami MD don want to hit circular. The card there must hit will be sigma to 1 copy, because sigma is main combo pieces. Banning sigma will automatically make circular from being 1 card combo to 2 card mathmech combo, and completely kill superfactorial combo from XYZ laplacian.
Having a second copy of diameter is really good for follow up so it does hurt their grind game a lot
This was on purpose just to make Josh angry
Miss clicked? What about mr clicked?
Mathmech used to be rogue in MD, did Mathmech even top in the Duelist cup?
maaaaan i was starting to enjoy fur hire runick spright Sadge
People had been talking on the MD subreddit to BAN diameter to make mathmech lose 1 negate. But instead they just limited it, wtf
They finally free Tri-Brigade after almost 2' years
Small defense for the Diameter hit to 1: on 3 with the link they can simply send another one.
I naturally preferred to see different harsher hits, but all these hits sort of seem in the line: People invested to make these meta decks, they will be pissed if it gets harshly hit.
Also since every month there is a banlist, they can afford these minimalistic type of hits on each meta deck.
You're never hitting diameter in a mathmech setup turn though - you'd only try to banish it on your turn when they triggered superfac. If you have a bystial/crow you either fire on sigma or save for your turn to stop the trap. Hitting diameter preemptively has never been an optimal play, and even with the card at 1 it still won't even be considered.
Before the new support, you often needed diameter in hand to extend through Ash/imperm and still get full combo. Now you just need any cyberse in hand you can normal/special after being interrupted in order to send diameter with terraherz
@@ct1296 I didn't say anything about pre-emptively. You naturally chain bystial/dd if possible to superfactorial. My point was more intended at the recovery capabilities with cards like equation/splashmage at turn 3.
And don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it is a real hit to the deck as the turn 1 plays stay unaffected.
@@lmr4403 sorry I get you now - I just feel like that doesn’t matter at all, since mathmech is such an aggro-style deck that probably loses if its unable to use its main disruptions
@@ct1296 Yeah, I got this month to m1 with 3 nibs in two of my main decks. So many aggro decks this month that simply lose to it.
The MD banlist has a clear objective: Make decks bricky, and therefore give even the worst decks wins sometimes because they bricked less than the opponent.
Konami needs to be forced to sit down with prominent community members and made to do interviews fully explaining their reasoning for all banlists.
>A well-balanced game attract more player.
>Yugioh
Well there's your problem
Imagine playing NaturiaRunick or any other Runick combination except RunickFloodgate and they manage to ban your only Fountain, because maybe they play Kashtira how can you play the game after that, even banning 1/2 fountain is problematic because if hugin gets negated you have no fountain which means you have no reliable Runick engine
Konami refusing to acknowledge it's the floodgates that are the problem cards in Runicks for the 100th time.
No the field spell is the problem. U draw 3 on my turn and your turn goofy
bruh the runick cards themselves are the floodgates
Bro they're 15 Instant Fusions and a draw 3 on both turns, they're stupid.
That said yeah ban all the floodgates.
I don't think you understand the definition of floodgate@@beenthroughnam3747
@@beenthroughnam3747literally lying lol