Flat Earthers confused by a table?
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#globe #science #flatearth #earth #horizon - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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"Flat earthers." Ever notice how all the comments about so-called flat earthers are other people talking about them, not the supposed flat earthers themselves? Look, anyone living in the modern world understands the solar system and our universe. The "Flat Earth" society and their Las Vegas conventions are the same thing as "Trekie Conventions." It's entertainment. No one at a Trekie convention believes they're walking around with Klingons and Romulins. Its entertainment. However, there are people who believe the earth is flat: indigenous isolated tribes, like in South America. And the North Sentinalese, and the like. And I'm getting tired of hearting people like you mocking these tribals. In fact, I think we need to jealously guard that diversity of human societies, not mock them, not browbeat the tradition out of them! That is incredibly intolerant! Stop making the last remaining tribal societies among us! Celebrate the diversity they bring to a boorish, styrofoam modern world we live in!
"Flat earthers." Ever notice how all the comments about so-called flat earthers are other people talking about them, not the supposed flat earthers themselves? Look, anyone living in the modern world understands the solar system and our universe. The "Flat Earth" society and their Las Vegas conventions are the same thing as "Trekie Conventions." It's entertainment. No one at a Trekie convention believes they're walking around with Klingons and Romulins. Its entertainment. However, there are people who believe the earth is flat: indigenous isolated tribes, like in South America. And the North Sentinalese, and the like. And I'm getting tired of hearting people like you mocking these tribals. In fact, I think we need to jealously guard that diversity of human societies, not mock them, not browbeat the tradition out of them! That is incredibly intolerant! Stop making the last remaining tribal societies among us! Celebrate the diversity they bring to a boorish, styrofoam modern world we live in!
I made a similar video about this. 2D surfaces do not obstruct 3D objects. Not sure why they all get misled by this nonsense.
I sometimes wonder about camouflage patterns and their purpose when it isn't quite obvious, like on striped animals such as here with your tiger.
Not all animals will have similar eyes to ourselves so I squint to see if it makes them seem like a larger animal than they are, looking for telltale signs like the ears coloured to look like eyes for example. With this tiger, I see the ears looking like the eyes of an open-mouthed animal with the black and white stripes across the eyes, around the cheeks, round the mouth and nose look like jaws open threateningly and the tiger's long plain snout looks like the tongue or inside of the open-mouthed fake beasty.
I've seen similar such camo with domestic cats, the kind that all have very similar facial stripes as one another and is a very common pattern on cats that share that colour type.
I don't know if I'm in the ball park of being correct, it's just an idea that seems to fit what I see through squinty eyes. Squinty-eye research, waddaya think? 🤔
Still waiting for a debate about Foucault’s pendulum 🤔
Flat planes cannot hide objects. Imagine getting to adulthood and still thinking that nothing can hide something. This is basic physics that we understand by the age of 3.
They are probably still wondering where mommy is while peek-a-boo.
That's a full two years beyond the grasp of a flerf.
I have this theory that some of them are not actually this stupid. They KNOW their ideas are irrevocably broken and wrong, but must cling to them because of a religious book. The alternative is facing the truth that the Bible may not be entirely reliable... and at that point the rabbit hole opens and their entire life choices are screwed.
@ShizukuSeiji
My interpretations here but I don't believe the Bible states the Earth is flat. The four corners could be the North and South pole and then 2 places on the Equator. I'm a Christian, firmly believe in the Bible, but my 3 years on a periscope of a submarine watching ships disappear hull first and reappear mast first leaves no doubt in my mind the Earth is round lol. I would even zoom in on cruise ships as they disappeared watching them party and wish I was with them😂
@@ShizukuSeijiI haven't seen a Flat Earther claim religion as a reason for their belief that the Earth is flat. Usually they list a strong distrust of government among their main reasons, followed by a variety of 'evidence' that has been very poorly analyzed. I do agree, though, that many of them probably know they are wrong.
The table trick is only useful for one thing.
It demonstrates whoever does it KNOWS they are lying.
I mean, every cult has its leaders. I'd assume the people making videos are cashing in on the beliefs of the cult, selling merch and getting donations.
But it's not *impossible* that some of them actually believe their arguments. If they really, truly, believe that this is how it works then they'd assume the only reason they don't see the effect is because they clearly haven't lowered the camera enough. I mean, it's "true" so obviously if the proof is disproving it, then there is a flaw in the proof, right? Sure, it *looks* like the camera is a bit too low, but that's just because the sensor is offset, right?
It's why the scientific principle is to try to disprove your theory, not prove it. It's too easy to gloss over inconsistencies when you're certain you're correct. Focusing on trying to disprove yourself shifts the goal so that you're *more* likely to discover a flaw in your own beliefs.
Yes indeed.
They always have the camera partially blocked by the table to start with and don’t consider how the lens configuration changes as they zoom in.
This. Cult leaders pull all kinds of slight of hand and tricks to convince the faithful, and always know the faithful won't look beyond the surface.
When your entire concept of reality is based on something, you can look at deception and call it fact. In this sense, you can speak a thousand lies and think only you have the truth. This is why Dave's appeal at the start of the video is so vital. The harder you attack their character, the more they will dig in their heels; your assault is a false positive for their belief system.
I know a flat earther who, on one occasion, called me a liar when I said that when flying over the ocean or just a flat area that you can see the gentle curve of the earth. When I asked him where he's flown before he said "Oh, I haven't flown anywhere. I've never been on a plane".
The cognitive dissonance.
Actually you can't discern the "gentle curve of the Earth" at 30,000 feet. Fly with a straight-edge next time.
Also, what the hell would you gain from lying about that?😂 Guess you could say the same thing about flat eathers who actually graduated high school, but still?
Earth round = profit for random pilot????
lmao i went up to about 40k ft on our flight, actually i think it was actually 38 or 39 (but close enough) now that im thinking about it, but you for sure could hold your phone up to the window and line up the "edges" of the earth and your phone and the middle of it goes up behind your phone. its pretty cool.
and also when im playing flight simulator you can totally just grab the Darkstar and afterburner up to like 250k ft and you can really see it.
also the orbital mechanics of Kerbal Space Program arent completely 100% accurate, but they are definitely accurate enough that you can plan interplanetary burns for like 100 years in the future and have it work out perfectly fine, so like who would go through all of the effort to create these complex mathematical equations to "try to pull the wool over our eyes" if the earth was indeed flat? like any person could calculate where a planet would be in the sky at a specific time if they wanted to, but they just have apps that do that for us now. and LaGrange points, oh my god are they so fucking sick. i would love to see a flat earther try to explain lagrange points, but they dont even believe that gravity or stars and the night sky are real, let alone these "imaginary" forces keeping the craft in the same relative position to the earth. god lagrange points are so fucking cool dude
@@peterdarr383irs funny because it looks like you can see the curve even though you can't. I don't know why it seems like this
@@jackoh991that's because you *can* see the curvature of the earth from a plane. The minimum height to see it from the naked eye is roughly 35,000 feet above the horizon and with a 60 degree field of view. It's not uncommon for commercial airlines to reach that height, and you can pretty easily get that field of view just by putting your face to the window.
Plus, you can see the ways that the stuff on the ground warps around the planet, which can make the effect look much greater than the horizon line on its own.
FLERFS: We can disproove globe by using optics!
Optics: Exist
FLERFS: That's CGI!!!
TIL: never argue with a photographer about camera-based optical phenomena
What about arguing with the guy that warns me not to argue with a photographer about camera-based optical phenomena? Is that off limits too?
@@leadboots72no, but fistfighting and throwing hands is off limits. Might scratch the lens.
Agree and disagree. It used to be that way. But nowadays there are many 'professional' photographers doing important events like a wedding that don't even know the basics of exposure.
I'm an amateur photographer myself. But sadly I often have to correct others for spreading misinformation. It runs rampant now. So many people nowadays buy a camera and start charging, thinking that they suddenly become the end all be all of photographers.
Luckily there are still many experts. You just have to dig a bit deeper to find them. I had the luck to find a few. And I regularly ask them for advice and they always give it in a nice way and provide good links of good pieces of information for me to learn more.
I'm now at intermediate level where I have a good understanding of the basics and some understanding of the advanced knowledge.
My next one to tackle is artificial lighting which is far from an easy topic. But with the help of actual experts I will get there.
I just wish more people nowadays would take the time to actually learn more than the basics, or at least the basics, before calling themselves a photographer. Because it ruins the name
@@horsemanshipper In a previous life I did freelance, both press and studio stuff. There is far too much invested in the idea that the newest, most feature packed, expensive camera is the 'best'. That is seldom the case. The best pictures are taken by the brain connected to the finger pressing the shutter release. Zillions of mega pixels doesn't do it, good glass can and does. Buy the best you can afford. Artificial lighting is a learning curve, just remember the inverse square law. Double the distance from light to subject, four times the exposure or light power. So double it, and it's 4 X 4...double it 4 X 4 X 4...and so on..And I did it with film. FP4, Fuji 160, Ektachrome, Velvia (beautiful stuff 50 ASA) etc. I wish you well. 🙂
@@steveb6386 Oh, I absolutely agree. I shoot with the canon 6D mark i and my favourite lens thus far (I mostly do wildlife) is the 100-400L mark i. Both pretty old. But the glass is high quality and makes all the difference.
I'm used to bounce flash and fill flash, but that's it. Actually shaping light will need some time to learn
Flat Earthers don’t understand a lot of things. So a table stumping them? Doesn’t shock me. lol
Just wait until they find out that some tables are round. Their heads will explode and the table will be declared propaganda.
The fact that they fix the camera just below the table surface shows that they know very well that they're intentionally faking it. They're just fraudsters doing a flat-earth act for clicks and attention.
Flat earthers confused by a flat surface. Hm.
"Flat earthers." Ever notice how all the comments about so-called flat earthers are other people talking about them, not the supposed flat earthers themselves? Look, anyone living in the modern world understands the solar system and our universe. The "Flat Earth" society and their Las Vegas conventions are the same thing as "Trekie Conventions." It's entertainment. No one at a Trekie convention believes they're walking around with Klingons and Romulins. Its entertainment. However, there are people who believe the earth is flat: indigenous isolated tribes, like in South America. And the North Sentinalese, and the like. And I'm getting tired of hearting people like you mocking these tribals. In fact, I think we need to jealously guard that diversity of human societies, not mock them, not browbeat the tradition out of them! That is incredibly intolerant! Stop making the last remaining tribal societies among us! Celebrate the diversity they bring to a boorish, styrofoam modern world we live in!
Imagine that LEO Adam the fake crane driver doesn't know how cameras work,
I don't think flat earthers will ever come round.
they give it to you straight
They live on the tangent.
My co worker is a flerf. I prove him wrong with so many scientific points but he doesn’t comprehend any of it and says I’m the idiot/ close minded one. Ive never been around someone so stupid
make him get out the map he uses for turn by turn directions. then make him zoom all the way out. he will likely see the Mercator projection. ask him if Earth is a flat circle or a flat rectangle. just keep telling him it's HIS map, so...
i work with one as well....its amazing that these knuckleheads can get it ALL so TOTALLY WRONG but then say its YOU who doesnt understand.
Please name just one. Just one.
@@brianashcraft1211 One what? One point that FE is a prank? Easy.
Oh what's worse is when they go to the Bible of all places to support their horseshit. 🙄😮💨
You turned the table on them.
I see what you did there.
@@GymRowboat Yup. Turn like tires.
/s
😂
How the turntables
This whole ridiculous genre is a circular table, with ice-cold dishes being pushed round and round. The flowers in the centerpiece are dead and dry. The candle's down to a nub. The only two diners are fondling each other underneath. Whatever the reason people found it necessary to debunk random illiterates, it's done. Check, please!
They have actually gone to a lot of work to pretend the camera is level with the table.
That suggests they know that what they are doing really is a con.
It's always hard to tell if they are intentionally lying, or if they're so delusional they actually believe what they're saying.
No, it is easy to fool yourself. And as soon as they get the result they want, they stop looking.
It also assumes each time we look at the horizon, our eyeball is half buried in the dirt.
They were looking for a result. Once things started disappearing they assumed they got the right height.
@@Appletank8 Good point
Sees proof of actual optical lenses in use.
"Is this CGI?"
Even their own eyes, they call it cgi 😂
Literally EVERY flat earth experiment is like a "tribute" to the fact they don't understand what they are doing: Because the more they understand, the more it threatens the belief.
And in the threads, that's ALL they try to assert: "We do, and you don't, so we're right". But their "evidence" never withstands any examination. That's why people who know this win EVERY single exchange with them. Its truly fascinating, watching them 🤡themselves.
It's always funny. They think they're going to unravel our understanding of physics with experiments that look like the kind you would do in school when you're 10 😂
@@dzgw Look out for the bowl in the dark water thing they are using to "explain" how moon phases work. It cant do a gibbous moon, but let's ignore that.
Being wrong is not only human, it's how we learn. But a flat earther is so wrong, they are wrongerer.
not only wrong, but just flat out dishonest, to everyone around them and even themselves.
The wrongest
And they never learn.
@@LaikaLGagarin1957”flat out dishonest” 😂 I see what you did there. Very good.
Sometimes it is our role in life to act as a lesson for others to learn from our mistakes…even if we fail to learn from them ourselves. I just hope when that happens to me, I’m still around to know about it.
Kind of insane how they do not appreciate that it is problematic if you cannot also recreate this behaviour from a higher vantage point. We don't need to get down so low that water is entering our noses, in order to see a ship disappear bottom first.
Yes, every one of these is a strawman of the real situation.
You can climb a hill to see the ship again. But after a while it is gone again. Same with sunsets.
Indeed. And no amount of zooming in or out will change that. I can just about give some benefit of the doubt that the camera being a little bit low might be mere sloppiness and not intent to deceive. I'm probably being far too generous with that but it seems to me that doing it deliberately would assume that nobody else is going to try and recreate such a basic experiment.
But even setting all of that aside the simple fact that it does not fit with what we see in the real world should be a massive red flag to them any anyone watching.
Exactly. Put three people, one on the beach, one on a ledge halfway up a cliff and the third on top of the high cliff. As the ship goes out to sea have each person call out as the top of the ship disappears from their view. No complicated equipment needed. If the person on the beach calls out first and the one atop the cliff calls out last, flerfs have some explaining to do.
Or get technical and use synchronised stopwatches.
@@marylynne9104or watch the sun set from the base of Burj Khalifa, take an elevator to the top, and watch the sun set again three minutes later.
“This must be CG because it goes through the window” Well actually if it was CG then they’d have the satellite asset in the distance still so it would go behind the window, not through it. That can only be done with lens distortion. Which is possible with CG, but not a priority, or something people think about unless they’re proficient with how cameras work
Maybe he thinks it's a 2d Animation and they had thr wrong layers selected?
Ah the good old having the camera below the table and focusing tricks.
... and if you pay close attention to what my right hand is doing ...
Basically, these fools have never stuck their hand between their eyes and noticed that they can "see through" it on either side.
That might be a different effect caused by binocular vision.
This effect is why you can look through your eye lashes and things just get dimmer rather than having each hair obscure some things.
@@tristanridley1601 it's still kinda similar. like in the window frame clip, the right side of the lens picks up the frame but the left side of the lens picks up the satellite dish. but the focus is on the satellite dish so it clips through the window frame.
@@tristanridley1601 It's physically different, yes, but the effect is the same, and still caused by how we focus on objects. As you say, you can do the same thing with one eye, which would be the same as using a lens. It's just difficult to control exact focal length and height with our bodies. 😂
Either way, my point was to illustrate a phenomenon that most people find and play with as children. It isn't difficult to understand, even if the actual physical properties are complex. It's intuitive, because our bodies operate in similar ways.
@@tristanridley1601Close one eye and put one finger near to the open eye. You can see through the edges of your finger.
@@TomTom-ik8dm Exactly.
Classic example of flat earthers adjusting their test method to get the result they want. And then closing their eyes and putting fingers in there ears when it's debunked.
Rob Skiba once made a video to explain how the Sun would disappear bottom first on a flat earth.
It started with someone demonstrating refraction lifting a distant object by viewing through the top half of a convex lens.
Skiba repeated the experiment, but to get the result he wanted, viewed through the bottom half of the lens, which had the opposite effect. Blatantly dishonest.
@@grahvis If it hadn't shown what he wanted he'd have encased it in Bismuth and claimed victory anyway.
Climate scientists adjust their methods AND criteria to get the result they get paid for.
I guess there's no harm in debunking this new flat-earth shtick, but to be frank, it doesn't seem like it's necessary, because it doesn't seem like they're arguing in good faith. I believe that they _KNOW_ what they're doing with the camera height, but are conveniently looking past it because to do so advances their narrative.
The problem is that flat earth stuff is just the start of the pipeline, and the end of the pipeline is violent extremism. A lot, maybe even most, flat earthers have ulterior motives and aren’t arguing in good faith, but they’re still convincing people who do believe.
The issue isn't who publishes those videos, but who watches them. Whoever makes those videos know they are lying.
@@DarthGTB That's a good point.
@@DarthGTB I can't imagine anyone smart enough to speak, record, create, and post a video on TH-cam is stupid enough to do this experiment and not see the problems in person. But they know they'll get loooots of clicks from the silly crowd so they lie
My conspiracy theory is that there is a large conspiracy of conspiracy theorists. None of them actually believe any of this stuff. They have a large convention every year where they laugh about the outlandish things that they have convinced the rest of us that they believe. And somehow they manage to keep this vast ruse -- involving thousands of people and an annual convention -- completely secret. Shhhh🤫
Why is the camera even at table level? On their flat Earth it would still need to work when viewed at every height ABOVE sea level. Because in reality, whatever height you are at, things disappear over the horizon bottom first. This "experiment" seems to suggest that they are only seeing things disappear bottom first when their eyes are at sea level? Whatever the observer's height (in the real world), things still disappear over the horizon, and still go bottom first. They need a demo with their camera at every single height to show what happens in reality. I'm not holding my breath for that experiment !
Thank you! According to flerfs, we should be able to see the Atlas Mountains in Morocco from Miami, they're about 4,400 miles away, across mostly open sea, with nothing in between tall enough to obscure them. A good telescope should easily be able to make them out. For that matter, we should be able to see the "Ice Wall" from the coast of South Africa, it's only around 2,500 miles.
According to Eric Dubious and many flatwats, you never look down at the horizon. To follow this sacrament, your camera has to be at point where it doesn't look down. In fact they place it where it would need to look up, so this isn't even following flat earth dogma let alone reality. Double fail.
If we say the table is a model of the flat earth then the eyeline from even the top of Everest would be near level. Napkin maffs: earth is 196 million sqmi, let's say we have a 20 sqft table for rounding, our scale factor is 1 sqft/10 million sqmi. Everest is 5.5 mi, multiply by sqrt(1/10 million) {so we get the scaling units ft/mi} and you get .002 ft
I think folding ideas's version is better since it's done at full scale
So according to flat earthers NASA spends billions of dollars every year to hide the flat earth but they can’t be bothered to hire a continuity director?
Not just NASA, every government in the world. Also every professional astronomer and physicist. Pilots and sailors, too. Don't forget schools. And anyone with a telescope. And... you know, it's just everyone but them. Everyone but the flerf is in on it, and they are the lone hero fighting for the truth against the vast conspiracy for which there is literally no benefit.
somebody moved all the CGI budget to painting the dome.
This is the major problem with a good number of conspiracy theorists. A lot of them are genuinely just dumb or stupid. But a good number of them, are genuinely just narcissistic. They genuinely believe that they are the only clever people in the room, and that they could never be wrong about an assumption that they made. No matter when they made, or how informed they were when they did.
@@nemasisdemarini8339 right, most lies are in plain sight anyhow.
Nope they believe the world spends hundreds of billions to hide it.
A better demonstration would be to have the camera slightly above the surface of the table, because the camera is meant to simulate our eyes which are famously located slightly above the surface of the earth.
I do get a laugh at the idea of flerfs shoving their faces into the dirt to look at the horizon though.
I had a flurf claim the viewer height was zero on a video, When I asked him if he had dug a hole to stand in he went very quiet.
To be honest I think I would disagree on this one. Because a zero elevation approach proves that even if taken to the ridiculous extreme, it still does not show what they claim it to. Proving that it does not work even when done on their own terms takes away any way of wriggling out of it. There are already some comments complaining that he did not move the object far enough back so the results are invalid, even though others rightly point out that in the flerfer version the objects are partially obscured immediately so that is beside the point.
You can certainly point out that the experiment is fundamentally flawed because we can witness things disappearing from higher vantage points. You could argue that doing the experiment is pointless to begin with but if you are going to do it, its probably better to do it "properly". Including correcting the mistakes that they make (camera too low, etc).
My eyes are famously 5’-7” above grade. Notoriously 5’-11” above grade in the clubbing days. And disappointingly 5’-2” above grade if I live to be 90 years old.
An explicit checklist of the facts at the end would be helpful.
1. Their Cameras were bellow the side of the table causing their desired outcome of obscuring objects
2. Optics can both obscure distant objects AND make them visible around an edge depending on how open your apeture is, causing something obscured to become visible at a long focal length.
3. Flat Earthers will cherrypick evidence like an expert orchard farmer to support their preconceived beliefs 🤣.
As an amateur videographer still learning how every part of the camera works in tandem, I cannot express just how helpful the models like 5:40 are at visualizing what's actually going on. It crystallizes the complex physics and engineering so succinctly that I feel MUCH more confident in applying it to my own work. Your content is always top-tier and I feel like watching your channel serves both as a cathartic debunking experience, and also a masterclass in photography
That Mitchell From Australia deception was a classic. Clearly he thought everyone was as dmb as him and wouldn't notice the obvious con.
No, he knew his followers were dumb enough to not notice, or care.
@@leftpastsaturn67 He doesn't care either as long as his monetized videos keep the cash flowing.
He may just be careless and once he got the result he wanted, he did not explore further to test his observation. Anyone following him will only be fooled if they too do not think beyond what is presented.
@@coyotezee Let's not be naive about it, if his observation didn't give him the result he wanted, he wouldn't have published it.
It's also worth noting that Mitchells camera was tilted upward slightly, causing the extending lens of his camera to physically rise up as he zoomed - thus revealing the coin.
A very deceptive and very purposeful attempt to deceive his audience.
I wonder how many good, knowledgeable photographers believe in a flat earth or are moon landing deniers. Just understanding how cameras work destroys a lot of those claims right off the bat.
To understand how cameras work you have to have some basic physics understanding. That on its own destroys any chances of them believing the earth is flat.
Flat earth belief is the domain of the uneducated.
I agree! And because they don't understand cameras, a lot of ppl yell FAKE.
That's easier than getting some education
I can understand where that fake moon landing thing comes from though.
Back in the days it was technically impossible to stream (live) a video from space to Earth.
According to Neil Armstrong in an interview I saw, the moon landing footage was faked (directed by the director that made the film 2001: A Space Odyssey), because it would be otherwise a rather boring audio stream with nothing visual to show to the public.
I learned a lot about how cameras work when I was dealing with moon landing deniers 20 years ago, which was about the same time I bought my first DSLR.
I am perplexed why there is even a debate on the shape of earth in this modern age, with so much evidence, even from ancient sources. Did some very bored person sit around one day with their friends and say, we can create a movement that is absurd, and people will follow it like lemmings.?? seems to be the case, maybe we should find the person that started this movement, and give them a Noble prize for proving just how gullible people can be.
For the same reason people think lemmings follow each other even off a cliff- because someone made a documentary and said so. In truth, the lemmings were crowded onto a spinning table top over water and spun off to make it look like they were following each other.
Now, after being shown the truth, if they were intelligent, they'd stop... but they aren't so they keep telling the lie debunked 6000 years ago.
The other reason is that this plays into the Christian geo-centric universe model (along with the return of creationism and other debunked theories) which Churches and Conservatives are trying to use to dumb down the population and return them to obedient slaves who accept their role in life as disposable labor sources that are kept starving to keep them obedient to their "betters" (clergy and wealthy).
I am perplexed why there is even a debate on the existence of God in this modern age, with so much evidence, even from ancient sources.
Do you see where the issue lies?
@@frankyanish4833 by definition, there is no evidence. Evolution on the other hand, there's plenty. But then again, it's like flat earth... Let's see who's gullible and compliant enough to believe bullshit
IMHO the flat earth society has been resurrected by the need to lump all conspiracy theorists into the same category, and possibly as a preemptive strike against people who think Antarctica is hiding something (which is a reasonable assumption, because devoting an entire continent to "science" is completely at odds with what is done to the rest of the world, by the same rulers).
@@frankyanish4833 What evidence? Is there somewhere fosil of god?
Flerfs just discovered proudly that a camera pointing through a perfectly opaque table cannot show the objects above the table.
Wow. 6 yrs old? Nuh uh. 4...
It is indeed a very sad state of affairs.
As shown at 11:30 of Dave's video, the table is not obscuring the object. The image is not showing the object because of optical effect related to depth of field.
@@coyotezee i was being sarcastic ;)
I love photography and know a little bit how it works since the eighties ;)
They remind me of some of the Nibiru freaks who will do silly things like putting a floppy disk in front of the camera lens when taking pictures of the sun - they believe the iron on the disk "polarizes" the light - then claiming the garbage pictures they get show real things.
They operate on their own special rules.
@@coyotezeethe table is obscuring the object. The demonstration at 11:30 effectively shows that the lens is effectively raised when zooming in
Imagine playing hide and seek with a flerfer! They would just run away but stay in plain sight thinking they disappear with perspective.
They would then deny that you found them.
@@jocramkrispy305 And then yell 'I win!'
This is so funny, I can easily imagine them doing that 😂
I just exploded laughing and my cat jumped out of the bed !
I can see them hiding there, just in the middle of a field...
Like when a little kid hides their eyes and think you can't see the rest of their body sticking out
Like the birds, I noticed flethers seemed very quiet roundabout the ‘US’ eclipse, whose path totally showed the rotating spherical earth - rotating at 24 hours per day remarkably😎
That was your tiger picture!!! Omg I've used that as a profile pic on a game. (I love tigers as you can see from my TH-cam profile pic 😅)
This dog gets so much cuddle time... I'm jealous.
You don't have the same relationship with Dave.
I'm pretty sure if you tried to sniff Dave's butt or crotch he might just give you a back hander. If you're lucky.
I am thinking of asking an exchange with Dave's dog for my 10 month old australian shepherd. Who obviously is under cocaine all the time ;)
@@markcostello5120🤨
@@302ci1968 I'm thinking of asking to sit in Dave's lap myself :)
That's one happy doggo right there lol lol
Some People are stupid. You don't need camera to prove. Come to ASIA, there are many islands, many islands disappear over the horizon. A 10 year old me instinctively tell the earth is not flat.
EDIT: I am 30's now
Even stupid people see the sun setting, getting larger as it sets and disappears below the horizon and conclude “I may not understand it, but this earth definitely isn’t flat”.
Flerfers are locked in a cult, they have brainwashed themselves.
Ah, well, have they tried zooming in on the islands after they disappeared?
Hey stop that, no logic allowed lol😂
Hey, Asia doesn't exist. The only country in the world is the USA.
To travel there would require flying on a plane, which they can't do because children cannot fly alone on international flights.
They get confused REALLY EASILY...
I tested the zoom trick. It was easy, when the ship disappeared at the horizon I just had to climb a tower gaining a new angle and use zoom. Boom, flat earth is real.
The problem with that demonstration is that they put the camera slightly below the plane of the desk/table. It doesn't even try to take actual perspective into account, meaning slightly above the plane. Which would immediately destroy their argument.
The only way this works is by beginning with an obstruction.
...and of course this is the first thing you cover, as I'm typing it. X'D
I've seen several flatties do this. They know they're doing this, and they know they're trying to deceive their audience. For this we can extrapolate that they know the Earth is NOT flat, and it's all just for TH-cam clicks.
Nathan Oakley did something similar on the floor, but put the object in a room that was down a step from the camera - again intentionally trying to deceive.
It's a great litmus test for the ones that are deliberately lying, the ones that are just confused, and the ones that are truly stupid.
And probably a slight pitch up for good measure…
I think we can safely say that Flat Out Truth's camera is below the table because as the POV camera gets close to horizontal the reflection looks like an elipsis rather than a circle
4:00 - Ask Mitchell why we can see the underside of the table in his demonstration if the camera is set up correctly
I like this guy's attitude toward flat earthers. No reason to ruthlessly mock people for being wrong and confused.
True some of them are just misguided.
There's every reason to ruthlessly mock anyone lying about it though.
Unless they are a real dick about it... :)
Why do they never try this trick above the table? In reality objects still disappear bottom up when seen from elevation too.
I've NEVER understood the whole idea of the concept of "water finds its own level argument since a drop of water on a table, forms a half sphere. a bubble is a sphere
Well you're just "magically" wrong I guess
@mr.commonsense Really? Tell us how?
@@gryph01 (explains with magic words of how you hallucinate water being round, even tho it's impossible. Or whatever bullshit excuse they use)
A blob of solids and liquids and gas form a globe in an equally gravitationally distant from other over powering body's too close for accumulation, environment in general which has been repeated 1 or 689333235665467800075322567336624679087654478655 times in the observable universe, not once has anyone seen a flat world.
Anti globalists should leave the obviously existent alone and all 17 of you should go and work for Dunny J DUMP.
If the surface on the table is hydrophobic it can form a full sphere
Yeah, with their camera positioning, they forget that they don't film ships at sea from the ground (or below the ground). They generally have their camera on a tripod, a few feet off the ground. They need to keep the camera positioned just above the surface of the table, or else it's not comparable.
What I can't believe is you just casually dropping one of the best pictures I've ever seen of a tiger like it was just another example lol. That pic is amazing.
For your tiger picture and the fence not being visible, a similar example to that for the human eyes is if you play hockey with a cage helmet. I grew up playing hockey and when you wear the cage you just look straight through it and don't see any lines from it because you're focused on things behind it.
There is also the fact of the brain "filling in" as well.... the infamous "blind spot" on the retina is that location where the nerves and blood vessels go out on the optic nerves and there are no rods or cones... we normally don't notice it because our brains "fill in the blanks" but there are ways to trick the brain (and prove the spot is really there) by placing an object that is the same size and then move your eye so that object is only focused at the point there are no rods or cones and the object "disappears"... that is why the eyes are always jittering ever so slightly to shift that focal point back onto the rods and cones to "see" that missing part.
Similar deal with a fencing mask. It's a pretty respectable wire mesh, but it just looks like a bit of a tint when it's on.
I'd never have thought that tiger photo was taken from behind a fence. You could take that to a party and come up will all manner of crazy anecdotes on how you got that shot.
A more accurate test is to have the camera lens above the table. Everything we observe on the earth is from 1.5-2m above the surface. Even if lie down on the ground we are still above the surface. When we look at the horizon we are looking down ever so slightly.
I also have an amazing photo of an ancient boat that was in a room curing with resin for a very long time. The photo was taken through glass that was reinforced with wire and coated with mist on the inside. Yet when I took the photo, the glass, wire, and water droplets are not visible as they were very close to the camera and blurred out. I could see the boat better in the photo than with the naked eye. pretty cool...
A even more accurate test is to ask the flerf to use his map of Earth for turn by turn directions to IKEA to buy the table...
:)
"We're all human, everyone gets stuff wrong from time to time; I don't think there should be any shame in getting things wrong, I see it as an opportunity to learn from it and learn something new."
well done... 👍
You would think tables would be the one thing flerfs are good at.
I think flat earthers know the world is a globe they just don't want to admit it because it would mean they'd have to admit they are incorrect.
Yup, because it would hurt their pride.
I knew someone who 100% honestly believed in the flat earth
@@DekuTheDestroyer it crazy really how people can believe in such a thing.
@@DekuTheDestroyer LMAO my classmate in a nutshell! He even is confused as to how we have a picture of our galaxy. I told him we just have a 3d model constructed by the countless photos - he didnt listen😭! Classic flerf ig
@@duck21567 there are only two genuine flat earthers. the mentally ill and the proudly ignorant. Pity the first, mock the latter, shame the trolls and the grifters who prey on the first three.
A flerf once quite honestly explained to me why he couldn't give up the flat earth. He said, "If flat earth is wrong, then space is real, the solar system is real, galaxies are real, the universe is unthinkable huge and I'm insignificant, and I can't deal with that."
You met an honest flat earther. That's incredibly rare.
"Now, I would like to be clear. I am not suicidal." The way you delivered that in a completely normal tone of voice just killed me
I don't think they'll accept this, you didn't use their favourite camera, and clearly that one must work completely differently to all others (/s)
Doesn't matter, they are now screaming that nikon discontinued the P1000 because NASA paid them off. Their 'favorite proof of flat earth' was getting too close to 'the truth' so NASA had to step in. LOL (but seriously, it is being discontinued but for business reasons with their merger)
Haven't you heard? Nikon is discontinuing the P1000, because the flerfs were getting too close to the truth!
Never mind that it's now a 6 year old camera.
Or that the market for consumer-level cameras is drying up because of smartphones.
Or that Nikon purchased RED Cameras and wants to pivot to more professional level cameras.
Nope, it's got to be a conspiracy against flerfdom because the flerfs were getting too close to the truth!
Besides all this... All the observations of ships going over the curve: the cameras taking those aren't at sea level. They would have had to dig a hole in the beach to put the camera in.
So for the table analogy, the camera should be above the table, so no part of the lens is blocked by its edge. Then they won't be able to do their trick.
I've noticed this effect of looking passed an obscuring object by taking it out focus before, not with a camera, but just my eye. The simplest example i can think of is when i force my eye out of focus, my nose might obscure, say, a poster on a wall, but when i focus on the wall again, i can see the poster clearly. It's really cool to finally know the mechanics behind it.
I have 3 reasons for why I watch your content-
1: I like watching pseudoscience or dumb ideas be disproven.
2: The way you present in your videos and everything is just great!
3: Your dog is adorable.
You should watch James Randi. He's been debunking pseudoscience and psychics since the 70s
Gotta lie to FLERF!
Always and without exception.
So true 😂You got to lie about the globe you gotta lie about what other flat earthers say you gotta lie about pretty much everything
@@user-vm3dd4yd2l Gotta edit posts to get them right, just like editing the evidence to make flat work lol.
@@user-vm3dd4yd2l give us one, just one, the very best one you have…. Globe lie.
And I’ll explain where you went wrong.
They are still not able to explain why the angular size of the sun does not change when it goes below the horizon.
Well more importantly why it never changes.
The biggest problem with this kind of experiments of flerts is ... that it is the wrong experiment scenario.
As humans don't have their eyes at their feet, but 1.5 to 2.0 meters above the ground, the experiment should function with a camera slightly above the table's surface.
Cause as humans, standing at the beach, could see ships disappear bottom up, the object on the table should disappear bottom up seen with a camera slightly above the surface. But no flert will show you this, cause it doesn't work.
They always put the camera as deep as possible to not obviously hide the object with the rim of the table, but still get their outcome they want, (unintentionally) using objective lens and camera effects.
I’m a few seconds in and I already know this is when they put half the lens underneath the table! You can get the same effect in the ocean if you put half your eyeball under sea level. (Dig a hole in the beach, don’t try putting half your open eye into salt water!!)
Goggles!
@@Grimtheorist Yes!
Nice to see a dog with a emotion support human
You can actually debunk seeing the satellite through the window’s edge just by using your finger. If you close one eye, put your finger up to your open one, and look at something far away, you can see that thing through the blurry outline of your finger.
When I hold my hand close to my eyes and focus on something behind it, I can see through my hand. Proving i am cgi.
Guess that's a good demonstration of this effect that everyone can make. You can also hold one finger directly infront of one eye and also see though it's blurry edges.
Flerfs confused by reality!
Love how flat-earthers try to claim victory when they just fundamentally misunderstood something!
I mean, the only way they can be "correct" is with fundamental misunderstandings.
Adding a pinhole filter in front of the camera lens could be used as a control. Take black paper or thin cardboard, and punch a hole through with a small needle. Then, attach the cardboard in front of the camera's objective so that the needle hole (or pinhole) is approximately on the optical axis of the system - the closer you get, the less potential distortions there will be, but this doesn't need to be super exact.
The pinhole obstructs light from anywhere other than through it. This allows you to set it more accurately "level" with the table top. Essentially the effect will be creating a lens with very deep depth of field, making basically everything appear in focus. The downside is that the amount of light entering the camera will be very low, just like with the early pinhole cameras, so you'll need to crank up the ISO number and possibly increase the exposure setting as well - or, use longer exposure times to get more contrast in the image. But since we're not trying to create actually good photographs here, the precision gained by reducing the objective's diameter is more important than the loss of image quality due to the reduced light.
I think a setup like this could almost entirely eliminate the effect of objects disappearing and re-appearing behind the blurred/focused edge of the table.
By the way, I find it funny that flat earthers continuously keep making this experiment that is completely out of context. As you pointed out, in real life the eye position is almost always above the surface rather than on it (or below it in a ditch). So the flat earthers should really focus on whether they can make objects on the table disappear from top down if the camera is sitting *on* the table, with the view point clearly above the table top...
...but of course it won't work, so they will ignore that.
I believe flerfs push f.e. Knowing full well it's all bs & do it for ad revenue.
So according to flerfs objects should start disappearing bottom up after a couple of feet over a flat surface, unless of course we’re looking at spaghetti oil platforms then “we see too far” 🤔
Flerfs are really the masters of self debunks.
So we gotta play the game of " Deceit or Incompetence" on their footage? A classic with all Flerf experiments.
It's all deceit. They are intellectually and ethically bankrupt. It's not simple incompetence, because of how readily they will doctor evidence and try to cheat at the tests. It's like a two year old with chocolate all over their lips insisting there's no way they stole cake. They know they ate the damn cake, but they will swear up and down so hard, that they'll begin to believe their own lies. This is why discipline is important. This is why we have an entire generation of people who think their feelings are more important than reality. People who will sabotage the meanings of words, gaslight about biological processes, live in denial about historical facts, and pretend the world is flat. There is no proof that will ever.... EVER... satisfy them, because until they group up, reality is just an argument they need to win.
That game has an add-on pack: "Delusions of competence" - it may have been featured.
Oh my god, that's your tiger shot! I love that picture, it's gorgeous.
I used to live in a house with Venetian blinds. I noticed that if I deliberately unfocus my eyes so that the entire room looks blurry, I could see more of the trees outside through the gaps and holes in the blinds. I don't have a perfect explanation for this, but I believe my eyes were managing to focus at roughly the right distance for the trees outside, so I saw them in focus while the blinds were blurry, this giving me information I didn't think I should have line of sight to.
I don't know if anyone has addressed this so I will say it here. There are thousands of scientific and technical/engineering articles written _very year_ that would have to be in sync with this vast conspiracy or else it would get blown, a tremendous effort that would be extremely costly. On top of that, since they're faking it, there would have to be an equally vast effort required to make sure everyone was faking it the right way, unlike real science and technology where you do what you do and the results are what they are, no coordination needed to make sure Japanese, Russian, Chinese, European, etc scientists and engineers aren't contradicting each other. The only way to manage such a vast conspiracy would require more massive documentation, more massive costs. And this would be going on for at least 2 maybe 3 generations, involving millions and millions of folks, and NO ONE has spoken up, no one has leaked any dox at all? PLUS, I think no one would disagree that science and technology have massively progressed over that time. How do they do this? Well, there would have to be thousands of articles _every year_ about the 'real' science and engineering, again,all secret and, again, _none_ leaked?
So you'd have the vast effort to write the fake dox, the vast effort to coordinate it all with secret documentation, and the vast effort to do the real science and tech and write all the equally secret dox. The cost would be absolutely mind boggling and why? FFS, why? And even more FFS is you'd start getting to the point where numbers of those in on it would rival the numbers fooled and again, just why?
Yeah. It would involve so many efforts, and so many people from governements to ship captains, engeeniers, airships staff, etc. (including retirees) and *since hundred of years*! We may think that they should be more people knowing "the truth" than the others 😅 In fact if this is the truth then flat earthers are just a little group of too-stupid-to-deal-with-the-truth that were left in the ignorance to prevent them jumping into the border"s void!
I forgot who said it, but its that thing where a certain president and a certain intern... and there is a leak in a party of two inside two years. Okay, maybe 4.
Yet somehow, like you say, 'they' can keep it quiet?
You also forgot the whole mess that is older stuff in art and architecture. Do the trivial task of calculating things back the appropriate number of years and you get stars and stuff just so happening to line up really close to relevant points?
And your missing the part where anyone remotely clever can work out a lot of stuff on there own.
@@nickierv13 Right and youi don't realize everything you said is either irrelevant or incoherent or both?
Just one of my favourite arguments. A conspiracy becomes less and less likely the greater the number of people it takes to maintain it. It would need nearly half of the population to fool the other half in this case.
@@compfox Not only is the number of people a factor, but the length of time the conspiracy has been around. I think there is actually a scientific paper on how likely conspiracies are based on number of people involved and the length of time of the conspiracy's existence.
One thing that is highly significant is that in reality once you raise the observer height even slightly, you can increase the range of view, but then the object (i.e. ship going away) will still disappear later. Now tell flerfs to reproduce it on flat table...
Well that one is easy, the object drops below the table top (SLOWLY)
Oh god I never even stopped to consider they'd be so ignorant about how technology as ubiquitous as cameras work that they'd use well known quirks of image focus to both fake footage and say real footage is fake
If all these table experiments were proof of a flat earth then they also have to work with the camera above the flat plane. The sun still sets for me when I'm not lying on the ground with my eyes halfway through the floor! The sun still sets for me when I'm on a mountain looking across the sea. etc.
It's almost like they're being disingenuous.
🤔🤔🤔
This table stunt reminds me of a deceptive (I know, redundant) TV commercial they used to have for some anti-perspirant spray. They sprayed brand X on someone's wrist (palm up) and then sprayed brand Y on the same arm, but close to the elbow. Then they pushed a cotton ball into each patch of spray. Then the person rotated their wrist to palm-down. The cotton ball near the hand (which went through probably 170 degrees of rotation, being near the hand) fell off, BUT the cotton ball near the elbow (which doesnt rotate when you rotate your wrist) and thus only went through about 30 degrees of rotation, does NOT fall off. Which proves, to no one at all, that brand X is better because it is dryer. As long as you spray it on your wrist, not your armpit.
That was fantastic Dave. The same experiment (Tiger and fence disappearance) can be done without a camera.
1) Using only your eyes (Because you can never trust 'big company' camera makers)and a thin something like a mouse cord or USB charge cord, close 1 eye.
2) Now hold that between both hands and make it tight/firm.
3) Now hold that at arm's length and focus on anything behind the cord, take notes of the cord change as you slowly bring both hands closer to you.
4) You should see the cord vanish right in front of your eyes, literally.
Mitchell's footage can be disproven when he lowers the camera you can see by the chairs either side that the lowest seen part of chair is about an inch higher than the back of the table.
My dog is also a fan.
The demonstration at 11:30 is the best part. It gives away why the others fail. Not only do they not understand the globe and perspective, they do not understand camera optics. This is an important feature to highlight, since a person generally does not know what they are ignorant of (by definition), but a wise person does not assume that they know everything relevant about a situation. They do additional research to learn more about the topics they have not studied to see if they can better explain what they are trying to understand and observe.
They have no clue about optics in general, not only camera optics. See their "demonstration" of how day and night works on a flat Earth...
Quick shoutout to tell you how much I appreciate your videos and dedication to detail.
I'm always "yeah but what about..." and then you address it in the next sentence ;-)
Thanks, I do try to cover all the bases
THANK YOU! Especially for the iris/aperture part. I've been looking everywhere for a demonstration of this effect without zooming and you've done it!
As always, you do a wonderful explanation of how the optics of photography work. I showed my daughter how when she takes pictures of birds at her bird feeder through the window, her camera kept focusing on the screen over the window (lidar or ultrasonic sensor, not sure) and the bird was out of focus. By setting the focus to manual, she could focus on the bird and 'Voila!' suddenly the screen 'disappears'!
Of course not sure that any flat-earther will bother learning more about photography, it doesn't fit their 'world view'. But the rest of us appreciate your explanations.
The most amazing thing is that you actually answer the “science” of these misinformed folks.
The earth is round boys.
That dog straight up loves you bruh
Flerfs prove they don't understand cameras let alone the earth.
Having been a photographer for 20 years - I found your explanations of focus, focal length, depth of field, etc refreshing.
Mitchel forgets/ignore 3 frames during witch the camera is still moving down... That's almost as bad as the cut 11 frames from his infamous colleague.
Blurring due to change of focal point, or another thing that LEO can't accept and can't understand, or, just can't. So, LEO can't focal blur.
this is the perfect example of starting with a result and doing everything till you can get that result even if you cheat
It's crazy that we even have to debunk or prove flat earthers wrong.
Nice job bring down the complexity of a camera lens. So much math goes into designing those lens that many people would not get it.
So true, but Dave here at least gives us a 'gut understanding'. Big aperture, more things out of focus, pinhole size and more things in focus. Things really close can practically disappear they get so blurry.
I wonder how many flerfs just don't know how cameras work?
But then again, I'm not even sure you need to understand optics to debunk the table thing since anyone can do the following experiment:
- turn your head sideways and put it up against a table
- position the eye closer to the floor so its view of the table's far edge is partially obscured by the table's near edge
- open and close your eyes alternately, and notice that the higher one can see farther than the lower one
Flurfs can't camera!
Are you kidding? They don't even know how tables work much less cameras.
They know how to focus them when the camera is filming what they want their followers to see, but somehow 'forget' when pointing them at stars.
Dave, I really appreciate the time and effort you put in to each of your videos. You demonstrate and explain things I'm pretty sure I know, but don't have the time or talent to investigate as clearly as you do. It is also satisfying to listen to you calmly and clearly explain all of the aspects of your reasoning without resorting to childish name-calling or fits of pique, granting the flerfs the benefit of the doubt without belittling their erroneous findings. Keep up the good work, and very cool tiger photo!
How about putting some vertical plane against the far end of the table, with a thin orange horizonal line on it meeting flush with the table surface? Then you know exactly where the far edge of the table is! The edge can't be hidden during setup by any camera trick or the line will disappear! I guarantee that your test object will remain completely visible as is moves away from the camera. No fancy adjustments or computations are needed to assure the whole table is in view. Just lower the lens until the line is lost, then raise it slightly and lock in place.
This will not be accepted. It is obviously too complex for a mind that doesn't even trouble itself to understand what a camera is doing when it "zooms".
The 2 main problem with the Flat Earthers "table" argument are.
1) If the table is the Flat Earth then the camera needs to be ON the table, not off the edge of the table. They have to put the lens ON the table.
2) Flat Earthers will say the Earth is FLAT but not really FLAT it has hills. mountains and depressions. The ocean has crests and troughs so it's also not FLAT. They can't use a FLAT table and say that is the FLAT Earth then turn around and say the Earth is not FLAT.
So. Bottom line. Flerfers deliberately fake results to suit their narrative, and assume everyone else doesn't notice. Who would have guessed it?
& OH! that Tiger shot!
We've known this for many years.
Can I just point out how fantastic that tiger picture is? Such a good capture. Great eye, Dave!
The thing flerfs don't get is that the Sun STILL SETS even if the observer is considerably above surface of the Earth - e.g. Burj Khalifa.
"personal holes"
@@Katy_Jones That's what she said... :)
What are their explanations about the time zones and the different length of days for the seasons?
Gotta lie to flerf, not surprised that most were BELOW the table