The Atheltic article on the topic: theathletic.com/2603443/2021/05/21/what-are-we-even-doing-here-around-baseball-players-raise-concerns-about-pitchers-use-of-foreign-substances/ The Chris Rose Rotation episode where they discuss this: th-cam.com/video/7Oe4_38xqcE/w-d-xo.html
@@agentdub3366 And not just in baseball either, but across the board, in all walks of life-everyone has to MacGyver their way through life using only Elmer’s Glue Sticks and their wits.
But it's not cheating... If MLB was an actual sport then maybe you could say it was cheating... But you forget this is entertainment... Why is Angel Hernandez still an umpire? Because it adds to the entertainment Factor. I took a refereeing class that was taught by an NBA ref and his first instruction to us was... This is not the NBA... The NBA is an entertainment show and it is choreographed to some extent. Certain teams will never win because that wouldn't be good for the business... Umpires referees in professional sports are there to put the fix in for the team they want to win. The motion of shot is not a real thing, it is an entertainment crutch to keep the game going and exciting... If you see a player take more than three steps when they're shooting it's called traveling... He went on to say every sport does it... He said look we all know that professional wrestling is 100% choreographed, but what you have to realize is that all professional sports are an entertainment business they are not an actual true sporting competition... This was coming from a guy who was paid to fix games for 25 years, an NBA ref... Angel Hernandez is in there for the entertainment Factor of the business, he's atrocious as a ref and that gets the excitement going whenever he rests a game you wonder who he's got to fix it for...
Move the mound back to the center of the diamond to increase hitting. Let them get as sticky as they like. Didn't mean to reply. West is on point for once
+1000 to the comments. And it even goes beyond that. Imagine if Bonds went on a mini-rant in 1999, saying "Hey fans, there's a problem... I know of a 'supplement' that will add 10 mph to your exit velo and 20 percent to your gains in the weight room. And no one is doing anything about it. Last year was fun and all, but it wasn't exactly fueled by spinach and protein shakes. I just want to play in a fair game." I can't remember if it was Bailey or BDE or even Jomboy on another video, but someone made a great point: the MLB should WANT to fix this, because we have maybe the lowest percentage of balls put in play in the history of the game. No, we're not at mid-1980s fastpitch levels, but compared to what the MLB wants to deliver for fans, we might as well be.
@Rob Indeed....He probably had the best eye for balls and strikes in Major's history. I never saw a guy be able to lay off of pitches like he could. He was incredible without roids.
@@6thwilbury2331 Maguire purposely left out HGH in his locker in front of reporters during his heyday. Bonds getting crucified for it above all is happening for three reasons 1: He was the best. 2: He's a huge asshole and 3: He's black. #2 is a biiiig reason, but #3 is for sure is a factor. the most ironic thing though is that the steroid era saved baseball in many ways. They all made money off of it.
Can we talk for a moment that Joe West made a pretty brilliant call here? Didn’t toss a pitcher. Didn’t cause a huge scene (coach did that) or blow up (that will happen later). Let the game continue. For an ump we love to hate, this was really impressive & well done, in my opinion.
West knows he's on thin ice himself; League looking for any reason to "retire" him...Need to give him a TV gig already...Let him call the challenges like they do in Football.
Bauer really did try everything. Few years back he used this stuff for one inning, and his spin rates were 500 higher for one inning, then he went back to not cheating the next inning. They asked him about it after the game, and he said no comment, but you should read this article, an article about pitchers cheating. lol I don't blame him at all for using this shit, he tried for years to get somebody, ANYBODY to do something about it.
It’s dumb. He said too if I were to cheat my stats would be “x”. 2020 he beats those stats and wins the Cy Young. It’s gotta be pretty infuriating knowing you could be the best pitcher in the league if every other pitcher wasn’t cheating. “If” he is cheating I don’t blame him.
@Chris Smith If every pitcher was already using substances and it improves stats that dramatically. You can’t base Bauer’s stats without sticky stuff and say he was average. What if Bauer was one of the best but everyone was cheating to improve stats? Not saying Bauer was the best pitcher before cheating but it’s not exactly a fair comparison
Absolutely. They handled it exactly how you should. It’s called preventative officiating. There are different examples of preventative officiating across all sports and this is a great example for all umpires to use.
Why call him out tho. U can’t allow every other pitcher to do it and then suddenly be like “hey no u can’t do that” there’s gotta be equal treatment, if ur gonna make him stop, make everyone stop
I'm in my 50's, and between speed followed by steroids followed by the Astros followed by sticky baseballs, I think there's been maybe 5 years combined in my adult life where cheating wasn't a primary baseball topic.
@@bazzakrak Nah, this is just how we are as a species. Put us in a situation where there are abundant incentives to cheat, and a LOT of people will do it if they think they can get away with it; in our personal lives, business contexts, and of course sporting contexts. Can you think of ANY competition or industry where people haven't been caught cheating? It's just more common and noticed in sporting contexts like these where a big part of the culture of the sport is finding ways to skirt the rules to gain a competitive edge. In cycling it's technological advancements, in many Olympic sports it's finding how you can use TUE's to maximise performance with legal drugs (or how you can get past testing while taking illegal drugs), and in baseball it's all of these things as well as things like figuring out how to steal signs and other shit that's either a difficult to prove illegal action or taking advantage of vague or poorly enforced rules.
@@hd-xc2lz minimal id think but I would say it probably does delay the launch of the ball off the bat since it would grip the bat a bit if it's that much sticky stuff to stick to yadier molina
Jomboy. I was never into baseball. Your videos literally have helped me learn the game and appreciate it when something actually happens. Now I don’t have to watch and be bored. Thanks man😂😂
So, the 6 no-hitters this season.... maybe just a coincidence? pay no attention to the fact it happened months after Bauer published the manual of how pitchers can cheat.
If the balls were the old ones I’m pretty sure Rodon wouldn’t have gotten his no hitter because a few went to the track. And there was a crazy hard line drive that went straight to an OF in the 7th
Somewhere Trevor Bauer is enjoying this. He literally showed in a game that he could increase his spin rate for an inning and become instantly more dominant.
Jomboy, you’ve transcended to the point where you’re more than just reporting news. You’re creating news. I’m interested to see if this report makes waves in the MLB now. 👍
He creates the news...but unlike the News Media Conglomerates, he tries to help better the system Jomboy should be the Commish or the head the policing arm of MLB.
Jack Strawb nasty spin also has a chance of increasing that. Righty throwing to a lefty and vice versa, a nasty spin that cuts towards the batter should essentially send it towards the batter more. At the same time you are right. If the ball doesn’t leave the hand when the pitcher expects it to, who knows where it is going to go.
This isn't "new"; Comes up every 15-20 years to keep fans interested. They will pretend to care about it this season; Then, forget all about it next season.
@@brentfarvors192 i dont think they can just ignore this after a few seasons anymore. Individual pitch stats guarantee that. Enough eople will talk about it the moment pitchers' stats start lookin weird
The problem with the MLB is they're too overwhelming on everything they try to change. Last 2 years the batters were taking to much of the spolight, now they changed the ball and probably let pitchers do that to solve the ''batting problem''. It's no coincidence there is so many no hitters already this year. MLB was never a league of ''smooth'' changes, when they want to change they basically overkill, it's the league's nature.
That’s what all people do when they’re too slow to react to a change in environment. Instead of slow evolutions to calmly adjust to new conditions, they remain in denial until the environmental changes become a clear and immediate mortal danger, and they react like a cornered animal, trying to do a complete 180 with as little grace as possible.
Imagine what kind of pressure comes from having to make decisions on whether or not to make big changes to a 4 billion dollar sport. Who decides that? What kind of pressure are they facing from the teams, the sponsors, and the government officials from the places that benefit from MLB teams? Whoever those people are, they are probably stressed tf out just putting it off hoping some big thing happens that makes the decision easier
Cole kept silent and didnt make waves. Bauer is the loud mouth that is going to kill the golden goose, and so MLB needs to punish him in a way that sends a message to other players "dont you DARE go against us".
@@joerogaine3093 yeah but Cole got that contract because of whatever substance he’s adding to the balls and Bauer was pissed because in the beginning he wasn’t doing anything and he was trying to ring the alarm because baseball was becoming too hard for someone who wasn’t using sticky balls to compete…plus it was Cole and he hates Cole’s guts. So when no one in the league listened he started using sticky balls too and got himself one of those big ass contracts. Now the league is paying attention and are most likely going to suspend him this off season…which would be a shit thing to do to someone who tried to tell them what was happening. If anything they should punish them all or none of them. If they only punish him I’m gonna be hella upset (not that anyone at the MLB would care but I will be…lol).
@@beautifulsurprise9424 MLB will be stupid about this because Rob Manfred is just an extension of the Selig regime, and Selig was infamous for his constant waffling and dancing around the issues that were brought up in MLB during his tenure in an effort to maintain the status quo. Bauer's already being targeted and he'll be the most harshly punished if anything comes of this fake investigation.
@@josephhale9198 Absolutely. In legal terms the chain of custody was broken at that point. I am also seeing pitchers throwing balls with movement that is crazy. Look at the number of no-hitters already this season.
He still catered to La russa though. Thats why the phillies manager was mad. Its rosin and sunscreen and joe west decides to make a scene and tell him to take it off because he didnt want la russa to yell out that hes cheating. If it really was sunscreen and rosin then thats way less than what some of these "elite" pitchers use. Cough cough* Gerrit Cole.
I don’t think most people think Joe west is a bad umpire just an egotistical one. Sure he makes bad calls now and again but on the whole I don’t think he’s too bad when his ego isn’t in the way
@@anonymousanonymous-xh4pn why did u pick a joke thread to ask this for one. Two there is a gray area there rosin and sunscreen are both legal because they protect players, if people are using other stuff it's for the purpose of cheating
I agree with Jomboy, it is cheating, it literally is equivalent to a corked bat. Batters can swear up and down "Yeah I don't want him to hit me with pitches" but that doesn't mean they should be able to coat the ball in sticky stuff. Sounds disgusting, and fielders have to handle that crap when a ball is hit in any way. Imagine being a second baseman on a routine double play, transition from glove is slowed because the ball is sticking to your glove, then you throw to first wildly because it's sticking to your hand. Maybe this is a direct result of all the errors we've had this year from gold and platinum glove defenders.
Literally no one said that he literally said they don't mind pictures using a little bit of pine tar here and there are rosin or a mixture of pine tar and rosin to get a little extra grip on their hands so they don't get hit by a 98 plus mile an hour fastball
At which point batters will just try to toss the bat as far as they can. Olympic hammer throw athletes will get recruited as hitters. That’s why I propose baseballs be greased. This will work until pitchers start getting spikes surgically implanted in their fingertips.
Honestly the worst thing to me as a former outfielder is having to play with and throw the sticky ball. Imagine having to throw 100-150 ft from the warning track with accuracy and the ball is fucked up
i agree with you that bauer is somewhat of a scapegoat. how can you call the astros a scapegoat? tell me another team that had a camera in center field that was confirmed via mlb investigation. you can cite all of the players that have come out and accused teams but they are biased and do not have any empirical basis. also, the astros from 2017-19 were the funnest team in baseball (they arguably still are except people hate them now), why would a dying league go after that team that amounts for a lot of their social media posts, highlights, etc?
Facts. MLB will go after Bauer like the UCI went after Lance Armstrong. Everyone is doing it, they know everyone is doing it, buy they need to "take down a giant", to stroke their ego, and set a precedent. I wouldn't even be surprised if they are personally mad at Bauer for pointing it out as an emerging problem 4-5 years ago, and sitting on their hands doing nothing. Now that it's everywhere, they need to make him pay for their ineptitude.
@@andrewlee8623 In 2017 the Commissioner put out a league wide memo about teams using technology to steal signs. The Yankees had complained to the MLB that the Red Sox were using Apple Watches to signal pitches. Obviously the stuff going on with the Astros. But, if a league wide memo is issued, it indicates a wider problem than just one or two teams. Also, the 2018 Red Sox used their replay room to steal pitches mid-game and was verified through the same investigation as the Astros one (Which is surprising that Joe Kelly, Price, and Betts are celebrated even though they directly benefitted from the cheating in 2018). It really seems like the MLB scapegoated the Astros to save the reputation of MLB. If one team is cheating, then it just a "bad apple" as opposed to several teams cheating which would mean it's the "system." Think about the steroid era. It was rife with cheating, so much so that Congress got involved and severely tainted the "sanctity" of the game. The Astros situations had the potential for doing the same thing. There are other players, namely Erik Katz, that has accused both the Dodgers and Rockies of stealing signs via technology. I don't believe the Dodgers did as Katz just "had a feeling" that something fishy was going on. However, he did get extremely specific and detailed about how the Rockies did it.
Bauer broadcasted to everyone he was doing and magically turned from a decent starter into one of the top pitchers in the game. Of course he should be investigated
I just watched Trever Bauer's video on this subject and he nails the issue. His point was basically MLB doesn't want the appearance of cheating but is not willing to come up with a reasonable solution to deal with it.
Imagine spending $324 million on a pitcher only to find out his greatness is found in a $2.50 bottle of Sauve! I can imagine some push-back from at least ONE owner, lol.
He just pitched a shut out tonight with 12ks and hitting 99mph pretty regularly. I think assuming all his greatness came from a bottle was a bit of a early call huh?
@@zorroknowsbetter Nope. Guy is just an above avg pitcher for years, then all of a sudden he's the best pitcher in baseball and gets a fat contract. Then the rule gets implemented and lo-and-behold back to above avg. at best. No one is saying he is bad or cant have a great game.
I think Bauer cheated last year to show them, if MLB doesn’t care, “I don’t care”. “Look, if you’re not going to control this, I’ll just win the Cy Young.”
baseball doesnt exist does a great video on it honestly, and I hate that it's like a "feel as well go" type shit, either eject everyone or let that illegal substance rock.
100% agree with Bauer, either ban it or don't. Considering how exponentially better pitchers have gotten versus batters I'm inclined to be on the ban camp OR bring back corked bats
@FairPlay Jay yep, lighter bat means The batter can swing faster and when the batter swings faster the ball is hit with more velocity and when the ball has more velocity home runs are more often.
@@17tignau Pretty sure this isn't true, corked bats were correlated with worse performance because of weak bats Maybe it would be better in terms of hitting singles, Tony Gwynn used the lightest bats possible for control so I don't know
It’s like when an exam is leaked - yeah you can be honest and look the other way, but your grades (and stats) will suffer from it. The environment punishes people who are honest. So everyone cheat to survive which is a sad situation :/
To use your example, Bauer is the guy that showed the professor the final answers were leaked for a week before hand, but was ignored and dismissed. So he then posts the leaked answers in the campus newspaper and gives a copy to everyone before the final, in front of the professor.
I don’t normally like Joe West, but it kinda makes sense to me - his decision puts the criticism on Joe West, not the pitcher or opposing manager. That’s good umpiring.
I literally haven't watched baseball in years and this channel has gotten me so interested in baseball since it popped up on my feed in the last few weeks. Good shit, love your videos
I hate how the media is making Bauer the scapegoat while he’s been the one against it from the start and now that he’s using it everyone suddenly cares
The only reason we have the data and formulas is because Trevor is a weirdo stud nerd who has enough a-hole in him to not care about everyone's feelings and take it public.
Jomboy preparing the field for an "Astros scandal" level of a shitstorm that is very much coming. Grab your popcorn ladies and gents, it's gonna be a ride.
I'll never forget when the umps confiscated Albert Belle's bat after a game-winning hit in the playoffs. Bell protested loudly while displaying his massive bicep. The manager was outraged. The Indians claimed they've been done wrong in their own ballpark. But hours later it was reported that someone scaled the ceiling and was able to drop inside the umpires room and steal the bat. Evidence gone. No crime.
Not exactly how it went. Yes, they discovered that someone had broken in and switched the bats because whoever did it was very sloppy and there were broken ceiling tiles and whatnot. They also knew the bats had been switched because the one that was in there looked completely different than Albert Belle’s AND it had a different player’s name on it. The American League recovered the correct bat from the Indians in exchange for not involving the FBI, sawed it open and discovered it was corked, and Belle received a suspension.
Would love to see more umpires taking this proactive stance on the foreign substance issue. Enforcing this league wide = more balls in play which = more exciting games, simple
I’m with you man! Why is it so hard to just be like nah use this ball, or nope change your hat. Or whatever it is, don’t kick anyone out or anything just make sure they can’t like Uber cheat
@@hunteranfinsen2804 agreed and you can't blame the pitchers it's mlb that allowed this to become a common practice, ask @Trevor bauer and his huge contract why you wouldn't when everyone else is getting rich doing it!
Thank you for making this video Jomboy! I had heard in passing that baseball had a problem with foreign substances, but it was awesome the way you explained the whole thing. Now I can have some context for future developments.
If it was enforced every game it would be different, but it’s not. Enforce it fairly or change the rule. But Joe West not ejecting him was a fair move.
It is hard to enforce nowadays because sticky substances have been engineered to be very discrete and hard to spot. They should just legalize it so the non cheaters are not disadvantaged. This is not like steroids where people are doing physiological changes to their body. Plus with sticky substances, pitchers have more control resulting in less hit by pitch injuries. I say legalize sticky substances and move the mound back to make it easier for batters.
@@andrew3448 dude pine tar gives more grip making the ball move in weird ways so it is an enhancement, it's like using aluminum bats instead of wood because it hits the ball harder.
@@unanimousreporting8250 thank you captain obvious. That is a dogshit analogy, it is easy to enforce aluminum bats and takes zero time to do so there is not an unfair playing field and aluminum bats are banned for player safety. Enforcing sticky substances, time and time again, has been a problem and has only gotten worse as it became more ubiquitous and easier to hide. We only implemented the rule to reduce the strength of pitchers not because sticky substances goes against the spirit of the game. There are other ways to reduce the strength of pitchers (move mound back, lower mound, tighter/true strikezone enforcement) without introducing nuance in the rules that allows for unfairness due to another rule that can be cheated. You cannot cheat the mound being moved back two feet (unless you were Carter Capp and his hop-step delivery - which they banned the year following his breakout) but players can and have skirted the foreign substance ban for decades. Why do you feel the MLB would try developing a stickier baseball or collecting data on sticky substances if not to eventually make a change that levels the playing field since enforcement has always been a problem?
I’m running out of videos after going down the rabbit hole with this channel, sad times. Fallen in love with baseball again because of these breakdowns!
@@lmSloth10 Agreed. I was commenting on the fact that he is the only one "Under investigation" by MLB, and I would think that that is just Manfred and CO who are unhappy Bauer called them out all the way back in 2018.
I mean, I think it's more like "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" situation, and I don't fault him at all. There is way too much money on the table to not do it if it's an option, and unlike steroids, there are no adverse health effects. It's baseball. You'd have to be insane not to use the substance and make an additional hundred million dollars. Ask Garret Cole.
5 out of 6 no hitters this year were thrown by guys with increased spin rates that increased unnaturally. Only Kluber threw a clean no-hitter. His spin rate has been down recently compared to his Cy Young years.
@@mistafrooz Oh, totally, but when you look at the whole picture like Jomboy lays out here it's pretty easy to see that's not why they're going after him.
@@mistafrooz Because it's like everyone has pointed out and stated. He is the one who has been talking about it for a few years now and described how it was unfair. Last season he started using it, had a dominant year and got paid just like he said. And now his name is at the top for this scandal?
great breakdown. trevor bauer tried to expose this and they did nothing, so he went to a chemist and got the best stuff they can make. it's like watching a wiffle ball game now... have you seen the clip/picture of yadier molina looking around on the ground for the ball, and it's stuck to his chest protector? he just stands there with it like that so everyone can see.
That Molina clip isn't really evidence of this. That simply occured because the ball collapsed his chest protecter and essentially grabbed on to it in doing so. When Molina takes the ball of his protector it leaves a permanent dent in it for the rest of the game. The ump inspected the ball that game because it was suspicious, but said it was not sticky at all, they even tested the ball later and only found rosin on it.
The Yadier Molina clip looks suspicious, but when you break it down and look at his chest protector and break down the material used in the Rawlings chest protector, you can see that this is just a freak accident because a dent in his chest protector exposed the ball to the inner layer of the chest protector which is DESIGNED to do exactly what it did, to deaden movement. edit: funnily enough, not sure if it's just coincidence, Molina does not wear a Rawlings brand chest protector anymore.
@@DrRhinoceros lol, i've been playing and watching baseball for many years and that's the first time i've ever seen a baseball stick to a chest protector, and your explanation is physically impossible, the ball is literally sticking to the protector, how in the hell can the ball be stuck in an indentation if 95% of the ball is visible? mlb is lying.
Lol the MLB deadened the balls and gave the pitcher carte blanche to substance-up, all in the same year. Gee, I wonder why there have been so many no-hitters? 🤔
I actually understand why Joe West did it. He just wanted to nip it in the bud to avoid the game slowing down with Tony coming out to complain about it. It kinda didn't work, but I get why he did it.
Well, this may explain, in part, why MLB batting averages are 20+ percentage points below what they were in 2017. That and the average pitch being 5 MPH faster.
I think Shildt really hit the nail on the head here. We gonna tell guys they can’t wear sunscreen? Take the rosin bag away? Tell them they can’t touch their arm? His spin rate was unaffected by it completely that game. His avg this whole year was on par with what he threw that game without his hat. It’s absurd, especially when like Shildt said, there’s guys having stuff concocted in a lab. If you wanna consider this cheating, they’re going after the guy who’s cheating least lol.
I’m torn on the Bauer situation. Yes he was flagging it, but he’s still now actively doing it and it’s clearly helping him significantly. That chart that Jomboy shows of his 3000 RPM pitches is pretty damning. He was never able to reach that RPM until he used the sticky stuff. However how is it fair if mlb sits on their hands and all the other players are playing better and getting more money. That’s not fair either. He shouldn’t be the scapegoat for this at all, but he’s not “cheating the least.” MLB has a huge issue here, cause no matter what they do people will be unhappy with result. If you make a standard substance the older fans will say the game ain’t like it was. If you ban substances people will say mlb in the way of progress. Lol. I do know that manfred isn’t capable of solving this. We need a new commissioner as well.
@@alexwhite3232 Baur gains nothing by taking a moral high ground, but if he cheats like everyone else he can secure himself a couple extra $100 Million. I dont see any reason why he wouldnt do it.
Guess where he learned to use that stuff? Yep same place Charlie Morton and Justin Verlander did as well. Charlie's career before Houston was pure mediocrity
Does anyone else find it crazy that the one year that the MLB “Legalizes” illegal substances, is the year we’re seeing a spike in K’s and a lot more no hitters or close to no hitters than normal.
Honestly well done by Joe West. He didn't write the rule, and he doesn't ump every game, so it's not fair to blame him for the inconsistency with which it's enforced, but he found a way to keep the result from being contested while also allowing Gallegos to pitch. He could have just waited until he threw one pitch and then tossed him if he wanted to.
but it was honestly not foreign substance by any means.. pretty sure they can tell the difference between substances or actual dirt on the hat... sunscreen part maybe more difficult to tell but if he never had that mark on his hat, then it wouldnt be a problem anyway
@@ShengYu1995 to be fair, it needs to be a bit more discrete if it is meant to help with grip. The umps know that pretty much every pitchers uses foreign substances. They aren’t complete morons. They just want it to be a bit more “covert”.
I actually remember Bauer got hated on by Astros fans since that's the team he was calling out with the "trading for a guy and upping his RPM overnight". Literally nobody listened to the guy because everyone was too focused talking about the one time he tweeted about politics and hating on him for saying the Astros were cheating
I mean its funny how he was complaining about people cheating then he cheats himself and gets caught because his dumbass can't keep his mouth shut about it. Weird how much he displayed his discomfort about it. Yet obviously felt comfortable enough to do it himself eventually. Pretty lame if you ask me and he deserves the hate for being a hypocrite.
@@BD-zs5zd Why wouldn't he do it too? the league doesnt give a shit about it so why handicap yourself. Doing what pitchers like Cole do won him a Cy Young and got him a 100+ mill contract. He gains nothing from sitting on a moral high ground.
@@BD-zs5zd He's cheating AFTER exposing how exactly everyone had already been cheating and finding out that the MLB doesn't give a shit. I'd do the exact same thing if I were him.
@@Ryan-eh9vo congrats he won a cy young by using foreign substances. Hes obviusoy not good enough to win one without foreign substances and thats why its lame. Literally is fucking lame. "Everyone else is doing it" yeah well everyone else is as well lame. Just because you can do it, and get away with it, doesn't mean you should. I used to have a ton of respect for this guy buy hes just another cheater.
@@aarondonald1611 okay it doesn't matter. Hes still cheating and being a whiny hypocritical bitch about it. Like he made such a scene about it then quietly decided to cheat himself. And look he won a cy young due to him cheating. If thats not lame to you then idk man. He doesn't win that cy young without his foreign substance and you know that
Anyone ever notice that all the pitchers in Houston revitalized their careers when got there? Always thought it was strange but man got from hitting scandal to pitching in a span of a couple years Manfred is honestly a doormat at this point letting the league walk all over him cause he won’t do shit
I love the fact that in reality, when the enforcement kicks in if Trevor stops they legit can't touch him because it'd be a PR Chernobyl. He is essentially Batman of the Foreign Substance War.
Shildt said it because he knows MLB literally doesn’t care. Pitchers could just go out there with sunscreen in their pocket and mix it with rosin and MLB would just collect data and not collect how well pitchers are doing with dead balls and sticky substances.
The PGA will auto-disqualify any golfer who does anything vaguely against the rules that improves their backspin on a swing. It's absolutely insane that the MLB doesn't police this in almost any meaningful way.
Well, baseball’s player union wields considerable power that PGA players don’t, especially when it comes to equipment and safety. Even if all the owners, GMs, and MLB executives wanted foreign substances banned, they might not be able to do it if the player’s union stands their ground. Plus, the MLB has a very long history of being overly cautious to consider something cheating. They hesitated on steroids, sign stealing, corking bats, spitballs, spiking defenders, hiding extra balls in the outfield grass, fan interference. It’s like MLB actively promotes the league as being lopsided. Even the uniqueness of the fields gives off an imbalanced nature that other sports lack. Imagine if in the NHL teams could construct one side of the ice wider than the other, then draft players that would be more well suited for that home rink. In golf, being an individualist competition, you need uniformity. Baseball has managed to get away with it for 150 years or so now.
@@AV57 I mostly agree with you. The player’s union has too much power and the MLB doesn’t attempt to hide biases and lopsidedness. But, I disagree with you on the stadium design. Like the field still impacts all players, so all the quarks still balance it out. Not to mention, these field shapes are prevalent across every level from high school to professional.
it's almost like the MLB has a century-long history of being indifferent to cheaters when most pro sports leagues have a real zero-tolerance policy towards cheating.
Part of it is due to the attitude most batters have historically had concerning it. It's starting to change a bit, but for a long time batters have argued that they prefer better grip for pitchers to reduce the number of batters hit by pitches etc.
@@howardbaxter2514, we agree on just about everything. I disagree on the ballpark designs. GMs can most definitely design a team that gains a reliable advantage at home. Whitey Ball in the 80s proved that beyond the shadow of a doubt. Sacrifice power for speed and defense on the fastest and hottest Astro turf in the league and you’ve got a team that can beat anyone if their pitchers keep the ball in the ballpark. In Minute Maid Park and Fenway, it’s extremely beneficial to acquire lefties that can hit pop flies to left field for cheap hits off the walls. Hell, when the Giants built their new stadium, they even laughed about how it was designed for Bonds to catch Willie Mays with the short porch in right field. It’s the only easy home run in that park, but it only suits a leftie with the ability to hit it right down the line. Hitting the ball to right center is only good for triples there. And for decades now the strategy in Chicago has been to induce fly balls, because 75% of the time the wind kills the ball, while the grass was so poorly maintained that it would make the ball snake and cause havoc for fielders. Too bad both the Chicago organizations were ran about as poorly as their landscaping crew managed the grass.
The sunscreen/rosin combo is accepted and was stated by the MLB to be fine. Schildt had a problem because he's seeing other pitchers with actual banned substances on their person, and they arent getting messed with.
Baseball really needs to get this foreign substance stuff under control. If we are being honest, these special sauce pitching substances are a bigger advantage for pitchers than PED's ever were.
@@MrKandlejack The thing is, Joe West didn't run the guy, he just said get you a new hat. Shildt basically came out and got tossed for nothing. He really went out there to argue, "whataboutism"? C'mon, that's just weak sauce.
Yeah ur right but when there's pitchers doing worse u would at least want them to also be called out on. Like imagine punishing a guy who robbed a store but not dealing with a guy murdered someone.
Literally went to a minor league game today and of course it was raining just a bit. The home team’s pitcher did horrible the first two innings. 1 in the first 5 in the second. Comes out in the third and gets two guys to strike out. The blues look at him and see something on his belt so they kick him out
The Atheltic article on the topic: theathletic.com/2603443/2021/05/21/what-are-we-even-doing-here-around-baseball-players-raise-concerns-about-pitchers-use-of-foreign-substances/
The Chris Rose Rotation episode where they discuss this: th-cam.com/video/7Oe4_38xqcE/w-d-xo.html
Elmers glue sticks should be the only legal substance
@@agentdub3366 And not just in baseball either, but across the board, in all walks of life-everyone has to MacGyver their way through life using only Elmer’s Glue Sticks and their wits.
What are your thoughts on Cole suddenly becoming the best pitcher in the league once he went to the Astros? Nervous at all?
But it's not cheating...
If MLB was an actual sport then maybe you could say it was cheating...
But you forget this is entertainment...
Why is Angel Hernandez still an umpire?
Because it adds to the entertainment Factor.
I took a refereeing class that was taught by an NBA ref and his first instruction to us was...
This is not the NBA... The NBA is an entertainment show and it is choreographed to some extent.
Certain teams will never win because that wouldn't be good for the business...
Umpires referees in professional sports are there to put the fix in for the team they want to win.
The motion of shot is not a real thing, it is an entertainment crutch to keep the game going and exciting...
If you see a player take more than three steps when they're shooting it's called traveling...
He went on to say every sport does it...
He said look we all know that professional wrestling is 100% choreographed, but what you have to realize is that all professional sports are an entertainment business they are not an actual true sporting competition...
This was coming from a guy who was paid to fix games for 25 years, an NBA ref...
Angel Hernandez is in there for the entertainment Factor of the business, he's atrocious as a ref and that gets the excitement going whenever he rests a game you wonder who he's got to fix it for...
Tony La Russa? Um, yeah.
I won't lie, actually respect joe west for this call, handled properly imo
He finally did something reasonable after 100 years.
Move the mound back to the center of the diamond to increase hitting. Let them get as sticky as they like.
Didn't mean to reply. West is on point for once
@@Woozlewuzzleable lmao
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
I agree and it isn't often that I agree with Joe West.
this is like when barry bonds decided the league wasnt doing anything about steroids and decided to become a baseball god
My immediate thought, too. It's stupid how this is what players feel forced into, but the MLB apparently just doesn't give a shit.
About anyone.
+1000 to the comments. And it even goes beyond that. Imagine if Bonds went on a mini-rant in 1999, saying "Hey fans, there's a problem... I know of a 'supplement' that will add 10 mph to your exit velo and 20 percent to your gains in the weight room. And no one is doing anything about it. Last year was fun and all, but it wasn't exactly fueled by spinach and protein shakes. I just want to play in a fair game."
I can't remember if it was Bailey or BDE or even Jomboy on another video, but someone made a great point: the MLB should WANT to fix this, because we have maybe the lowest percentage of balls put in play in the history of the game. No, we're not at mid-1980s fastpitch levels, but compared to what the MLB wants to deliver for fans, we might as well be.
@Rob Indeed....He probably had the best eye for balls and strikes in Major's history. I never saw a guy be able to lay off of pitches like he could. He was incredible without roids.
@@6thwilbury2331 Maguire purposely left out HGH in his locker in front of reporters during his heyday. Bonds getting crucified for it above all is happening for three reasons 1: He was the best. 2: He's a huge asshole and 3: He's black. #2 is a biiiig reason, but #3 is for sure is a factor. the most ironic thing though is that the steroid era saved baseball in many ways. They all made money off of it.
I stopped watching baseball when Bonds retired. He was unbelievable. Why wouldn't they all cheat. Better stats equals fatter paycheck
Can we talk for a moment that Joe West made a pretty brilliant call here? Didn’t toss a pitcher. Didn’t cause a huge scene (coach did that) or blow up (that will happen later). Let the game continue.
For an ump we love to hate, this was really impressive & well done, in my opinion.
For once I'll say Joe west did a good job
nah he stole the other refs idea
Also his gullet looks smaller than it used to
@@Gdkcs his gullet gets bigger when he’s angry, it’s a defense mechanism to scare off bigger predators
West knows he's on thin ice himself; League looking for any reason to "retire" him...Need to give him a TV gig already...Let him call the challenges like they do in Football.
Bauer really did try everything. Few years back he used this stuff for one inning, and his spin rates were 500 higher for one inning, then he went back to not cheating the next inning. They asked him about it after the game, and he said no comment, but you should read this article, an article about pitchers cheating. lol I don't blame him at all for using this shit, he tried for years to get somebody, ANYBODY to do something about it.
It’s dumb. He said too if I were to cheat my stats would be “x”. 2020 he beats those stats and wins the Cy Young. It’s gotta be pretty infuriating knowing you could be the best pitcher in the league if every other pitcher wasn’t cheating. “If” he is cheating I don’t blame him.
@Chris Smith You literally named two cheaters
Check out the channel Baseball Doesn’t Exist it covers this
@Chris Smith If every pitcher was already using substances and it improves stats that dramatically. You can’t base Bauer’s stats without sticky stuff and say he was average. What if Bauer was one of the best but everyone was cheating to improve stats? Not saying Bauer was the best pitcher before cheating but it’s not exactly a fair comparison
@Chris Smith Clearly he saw nobody was going to do anything about it, so he might as well just cheat and get paid while he can. Everyone else was.
I think he handled it pretty good just making him change hats rather than eject him
Wow most likes I’ve ever gotten lol not even my best comment
exactly. I think if they waited and ejected him, this would have turned into a real shit show. heaven forbid, but, I agree with West on this one.
@@milesmartin8420 because it’s his job and out of respect for his coworkers? And the pitcher was in the wrong?..
th-cam.com/video/9ivRvK6qb-I/w-d-xo.html
Absolutely. They handled it exactly how you should. It’s called preventative officiating. There are different examples of preventative officiating across all sports and this is a great example for all umpires to use.
Why call him out tho. U can’t allow every other pitcher to do it and then suddenly be like “hey no u can’t do that” there’s gotta be equal treatment, if ur gonna make him stop, make everyone stop
I'm in my 50's, and between speed followed by steroids followed by the Astros followed by sticky baseballs, I think there's been maybe 5 years combined in my adult life where cheating wasn't a primary baseball topic.
Yeah that's sad
Yeah thats because EVERYONE IN BASEBALL CHEATS.
EVERYONE.
Another comment said it best “cheating is baseball’s favorite pastime”.
A bit like cycling
Yeah Lance wasnt that good because he was more aerodynamic with 1 less ball
@@bazzakrak Nah, this is just how we are as a species. Put us in a situation where there are abundant incentives to cheat, and a LOT of people will do it if they think they can get away with it; in our personal lives, business contexts, and of course sporting contexts. Can you think of ANY competition or industry where people haven't been caught cheating?
It's just more common and noticed in sporting contexts like these where a big part of the culture of the sport is finding ways to skirt the rules to gain a competitive edge. In cycling it's technological advancements, in many Olympic sports it's finding how you can use TUE's to maximise performance with legal drugs (or how you can get past testing while taking illegal drugs), and in baseball it's all of these things as well as things like figuring out how to steal signs and other shit that's either a difficult to prove illegal action or taking advantage of vague or poorly enforced rules.
Bauer: literally tweets recipes for sticky substances
MLB: hmmm... better check this guy...
Missed the oh let's investigate 3 years later
So funny hahaha
Jimmy is bad ass in everything he reports
Yes, he knows the recipes and techniques because he knows what others are doing.
Sunscreen and resin isn't "sticky stuff"
Proud of Joe West and how he dealt with this, that’ll be the only time you’ll read those words from a comment of mine.
I agree! I don't think there is a more fair, straight forward ump than Joe West. It will be a sad day when he retires.....
I hate to agree. I really do. But you’re right.
I gotta admit, it's even weird to read those words.
For real!! Joe West is usually a dick, but he handled this one moment like a pro. I couldn’t agree with you more.
It’s the first decent piece of umpiring I’ve ever seen from joe west
Anyone remember when Yadier Molina had a ball stick directly to his chest protector? Makes a little more sense now
Mind blown
Oh my god I'm just now realizing that
@@pjl_007 If there's enough goo on a ball to stick to a vertical surface, wouldn't that impact flight of the ball? Explain the low B.A.s?
@@hd-xc2lz minimal id think but I would say it probably does delay the launch of the ball off the bat since it would grip the bat a bit if it's that much sticky stuff to stick to yadier molina
@@hd-xc2lz I have a different hypothesis. What if Molina had the stuff in his protector, to rub the ball, to help the pitcher?
Jomboy. I was never into baseball. Your videos literally have helped me learn the game and appreciate it when something actually happens. Now I don’t have to watch and be bored. Thanks man😂😂
Same, this is my first year watching baseball because I got sucked into his breakdowns lol
@@DJColdCutz_ I fear I’m on that same road too haha
@@nick-ky7ql don’t fear it. Let it happen lmao
Good, now become a Dodgers fan! :D
@@statementsaremade5273 yankee fan man sorry lmaoo
Damn, is Joe getting soft in his old age? That’s the nicest, least confrontational thing I’ve ever seen him do. Good on him.
West got the record and stopped caring lol
And there’s logic behind the call! I agreed with why he did it, and anyone who doesn’t at least understand it isn’t getting it.
@@F1god04 Have you ever seen Joe West use logic or reason before this though, and miss out on a opportunity to be a prick?
No. This is the same Joe West, he always wants to be the center of attention. This had nothing to do with anything other than his fame.
Joe West, the hero of a Jomboy breakdown. I never thought I'd see the day.
"Spin rate makes the pitches more effective" *Knuckle ball cries softly in the corner*
Well the statement is still technically true..
@@ac833 lol I was gonna say this, just because it has a spin rate of 0-5 rpm doesn’t mean that a slow spin rate doesn’t make it effective
This deserves more likes 😂
“And R.A Dickey watched from his gorgeous mansion and cried but a single tear”
that's technically spin rate....
So, the 6 no-hitters this season.... maybe just a coincidence? pay no attention to the fact it happened months after Bauer published the manual of how pitchers can cheat.
the no hitters are most likely because of ball changes, the wild substances pitchers are using predate this season for sure
It’s the new ball.
Why can’t it be both, both things are present in the league and has made this years offense numbers go down
One of the games Angel Hernández was the ump and his strike zone was shit. Really wide. It definitely helped the pitcher get a no hitter.
If the balls were the old ones I’m pretty sure Rodon wouldn’t have gotten his no hitter because a few went to the track. And there was a crazy hard line drive that went straight to an OF in the 7th
Somewhere Trevor Bauer is enjoying this. He literally showed in a game that he could increase his spin rate for an inning and become instantly more dominant.
This did not age well.
@@chokobo0047innocent
Jomboy, you’ve transcended to the point where you’re more than just reporting news. You’re creating news. I’m interested to see if this report makes waves in the MLB now. 👍
He creates the news...but unlike the News Media Conglomerates, he tries to help better the system Jomboy should be the Commish or the head the policing arm of MLB.
@Jane Taylor +1
I posted this exactly because of the Astros scandal
@Jane Taylor But ignored the Yankees cheating, as did the rest of the sports media.
Literally everybody knew this... 😐
“Take this hat guard it with your god damn life” 😂😂
Guard this like if it's the spear that killed jesus boy now go go now
Jack Strawb nasty spin also has a chance of increasing that. Righty throwing to a lefty and vice versa, a nasty spin that cuts towards the batter should essentially send it towards the batter more. At the same time you are right. If the ball doesn’t leave the hand when the pitcher expects it to, who knows where it is going to go.
@@robertkidnley93 this gave me a great laugh!
This is going to progress until:
1. Bauer and Grienke are actually playing Blitzball out there
2. Bellinger still hits it. High.
Its too high
Bellinger hitting 420 ft that far?
This isn't "new"; Comes up every 15-20 years to keep fans interested. They will pretend to care about it this season; Then, forget all about it next season.
@@brentfarvors192 i dont think they can just ignore this after a few seasons anymore. Individual pitch stats guarantee that. Enough eople will talk about it the moment pitchers' stats start lookin weird
@@Fatallica Done it the last 4 or 5 times this came up...Dating back to the earliest years of pro baseball...
“The MLB is giving them a free year not gonna get anyone in trouble”
6 no hitters later-
Now it makes so much sense lmao
I wouldn’t be surprised if pitchers started using gorilla glue or liquid nails because of this
@@bsapavel6880 I dont think they're trying to send themselves to the hospital
@@bsapavel6880 How would a hair care product help you pitch better?
@@peterbills4129 you didnt pay any attention to how it affects spin did you?
The problem with the MLB is they're too overwhelming on everything they try to change. Last 2 years the batters were taking to much of the spolight, now they changed the ball and probably let pitchers do that to solve the ''batting problem''. It's no coincidence there is so many no hitters already this year. MLB was never a league of ''smooth'' changes, when they want to change they basically overkill, it's the league's nature.
"Game's too long. Let's put a guy on SECOND."
This makes so much sense actually
Reactionary and stubborn isnt a great mix
That’s what all people do when they’re too slow to react to a change in environment. Instead of slow evolutions to calmly adjust to new conditions, they remain in denial until the environmental changes become a clear and immediate mortal danger, and they react like a cornered animal, trying to do a complete 180 with as little grace as possible.
Imagine what kind of pressure comes from having to make decisions on whether or not to make big changes to a 4 billion dollar sport. Who decides that? What kind of pressure are they facing from the teams, the sponsors, and the government officials from the places that benefit from MLB teams? Whoever those people are, they are probably stressed tf out just putting it off hoping some big thing happens that makes the decision easier
A lot of Bauer's tweets were specifically to call out your boy Cole and after Cole got a massive contract he said f it, I'mma just do it too
Cole kept silent and didnt make waves. Bauer is the loud mouth that is going to kill the golden goose, and so MLB needs to punish him in a way that sends a message to other players "dont you DARE go against us".
Why would Garrit Cole care? He's guaranteed $324,000,000 no matter how good or bad he pitches.
@@joerogaine3093 Maybe Cole doesn't care but Bauer cares about him
@@joerogaine3093 yeah but Cole got that contract because of whatever substance he’s adding to the balls and Bauer was pissed because in the beginning he wasn’t doing anything and he was trying to ring the alarm because baseball was becoming too hard for someone who wasn’t using sticky balls to compete…plus it was Cole and he hates Cole’s guts. So when no one in the league listened he started using sticky balls too and got himself one of those big ass contracts. Now the league is paying attention and are most likely going to suspend him this off season…which would be a shit thing to do to someone who tried to tell them what was happening. If anything they should punish them all or none of them. If they only punish him I’m gonna be hella upset (not that anyone at the MLB would care but I will be…lol).
@@beautifulsurprise9424 MLB will be stupid about this because Rob Manfred is just an extension of the Selig regime, and Selig was infamous for his constant waffling and dancing around the issues that were brought up in MLB during his tenure in an effort to maintain the status quo. Bauer's already being targeted and he'll be the most harshly punished if anything comes of this fake investigation.
"Here, take this hat kid, and guard it with your god damn life." "Holy shit" the ball boys thinking to himself.
Ha. Who knows what happened to the hat after the Sox ballboy had it
Better make sure he isn't missing
@@josephhale9198 Absolutely. In legal terms the chain of custody was broken at that point. I am also seeing pitchers throwing balls with movement that is crazy. Look at the number of no-hitters already this season.
this one plays like a movie, straight up zonin to this. dabbin. love you Jomboy lol
Damn, thanks for so many likes
Joe West handled this in the best and most mature way possible. Yeah, I said it. Wanna fight about it?
He still catered to La russa though. Thats why the phillies manager was mad.
Its rosin and sunscreen and joe west decides to make a scene and tell him to take it off because he didnt want la russa to yell out that hes cheating.
If it really was sunscreen and rosin then thats way less than what some of these "elite" pitchers use.
Cough cough* Gerrit Cole.
I don’t think most people think Joe west is a bad umpire just an egotistical one. Sure he makes bad calls now and again but on the whole I don’t think he’s too bad when his ego isn’t in the way
@@sterlingarcher8089 As a White Sox fan it's hard for me to root for them when I see La Russa being a piece of shit over and over again.
Let me know if a fight breaks out. I'm on your side Raymond.
I completely agree with you. I thought the exact same thing
Try SEMEN mixed with pine tar, honey and super glue.
That's called lunch
You guys are hilarious
I did. Works like a charm.
Rosin is legal sticky stuff why is other stuff bad? U could make weapons grade sticky stuff in a lab it'd be the same as rosin
@@anonymousanonymous-xh4pn why did u pick a joke thread to ask this for one. Two there is a gray area there rosin and sunscreen are both legal because they protect players, if people are using other stuff it's for the purpose of cheating
I agree with Jomboy, it is cheating, it literally is equivalent to a corked bat. Batters can swear up and down "Yeah I don't want him to hit me with pitches" but that doesn't mean they should be able to coat the ball in sticky stuff. Sounds disgusting, and fielders have to handle that crap when a ball is hit in any way. Imagine being a second baseman on a routine double play, transition from glove is slowed because the ball is sticking to your glove, then you throw to first wildly because it's sticking to your hand. Maybe this is a direct result of all the errors we've had this year from gold and platinum glove defenders.
Literally no one said that he literally said they don't mind pictures using a little bit of pine tar here and there are rosin or a mixture of pine tar and rosin to get a little extra grip on their hands so they don't get hit by a 98 plus mile an hour fastball
@@chrisspann2308 Yea, literally.
@@chrisspann2308 how does that stop a 98 mph fast ball from hitting them?
@@BruceWaynesFactory better grip
@@BruceWaynesFactory the right mixture equals better grip. Better grip equals more control in getting it to where you are aiming.
Things won't change until the ball is so sticky, it's stuck to a bat after contact. Can't wait for that breakdown.
As a vindicated lifelong Dodger fan, Surprised it hasn't happened yet tbh😂😂
You ever see the video of the baseball getting stuck to the catchers chest plate?
th-cam.com/video/k8UjLR5nvx0/w-d-xo.html
@@tamparockout17 I remember that one. Makes a lot more sense now.
How about gloves
At which point batters will just try to toss the bat as far as they can. Olympic hammer throw athletes will get recruited as hitters.
That’s why I propose baseballs be greased. This will work until pitchers start getting spikes surgically implanted in their fingertips.
Honestly the worst thing to me as a former outfielder is having to play with and throw the sticky ball. Imagine having to throw 100-150 ft from the warning track with accuracy and the ball is fucked up
Nah you just weren’t any good dude
@@Smllc22318 hahahah yeah he sucked
skill issue
@@dthbdbsfgh 5 years in the league. Thanks
The MLB going after Bauer is not surprising. Look at how they handled the Astros situation. They just need a scapegoat.
i agree with you that bauer is somewhat of a scapegoat. how can you call the astros a scapegoat? tell me another team that had a camera in center field that was confirmed via mlb investigation. you can cite all of the players that have come out and accused teams but they are biased and do not have any empirical basis. also, the astros from 2017-19 were the funnest team in baseball (they arguably still are except people hate them now), why would a dying league go after that team that amounts for a lot of their social media posts, highlights, etc?
Facts. MLB will go after Bauer like the UCI went after Lance Armstrong. Everyone is doing it, they know everyone is doing it, buy they need to "take down a giant", to stroke their ego, and set a precedent.
I wouldn't even be surprised if they are personally mad at Bauer for pointing it out as an emerging problem 4-5 years ago, and sitting on their hands doing nothing. Now that it's everywhere, they need to make him pay for their ineptitude.
@@andrewlee8623 In 2017 the Commissioner put out a league wide memo about teams using technology to steal signs. The Yankees had complained to the MLB that the Red Sox were using Apple Watches to signal pitches. Obviously the stuff going on with the Astros. But, if a league wide memo is issued, it indicates a wider problem than just one or two teams. Also, the 2018 Red Sox used their replay room to steal pitches mid-game and was verified through the same investigation as the Astros one (Which is surprising that Joe Kelly, Price, and Betts are celebrated even though they directly benefitted from the cheating in 2018). It really seems like the MLB scapegoated the Astros to save the reputation of MLB. If one team is cheating, then it just a "bad apple" as opposed to several teams cheating which would mean it's the "system." Think about the steroid era. It was rife with cheating, so much so that Congress got involved and severely tainted the "sanctity" of the game. The Astros situations had the potential for doing the same thing.
There are other players, namely Erik Katz, that has accused both the Dodgers and Rockies of stealing signs via technology. I don't believe the Dodgers did as Katz just "had a feeling" that something fishy was going on. However, he did get extremely specific and detailed about how the Rockies did it.
Bauer broadcasted to everyone he was doing and magically turned from a decent starter into one of the top pitchers in the game. Of course he should be investigated
@@andrewlee8623 They were used as scapegoats. www.chron.com/sports/astros/slideshow/Cheating-history-every-Major-League-Baseball-team-200267.php
I just watched Trever Bauer's video on this subject and he nails the issue. His point was basically MLB doesn't want the appearance of cheating but is not willing to come up with a reasonable solution to deal with it.
its like they want a little bit of cheating to make the game exciting but not too much that its obvious
Imagine spending $324 million on a pitcher only to find out his greatness is found in a $2.50 bottle of Sauve! I can imagine some push-back from at least ONE owner, lol.
He just pitched a shut out tonight with 12ks and hitting 99mph pretty regularly. I think assuming all his greatness came from a bottle was a bit of a early call huh?
@@zorroknowsbetter no lol
@@zorroknowsbetter Nope. Guy is just an above avg pitcher for years, then all of a sudden he's the best pitcher in baseball and gets a fat contract. Then the rule gets implemented and lo-and-behold back to above avg. at best. No one is saying he is bad or cant have a great game.
I think Bauer cheated last year to show them, if MLB doesn’t care, “I don’t care”. “Look, if you’re not going to control this, I’ll just win the Cy Young.”
I honestly think that’s kind of cool, like he called their bluff. And was begging them to do something about it before
baseball doesnt exist does a great video on it honestly, and I hate that it's like a "feel as well go" type shit, either eject everyone or let that illegal substance rock.
legend.
@@richieh7476 yea great video
Openly.
Jimmy really missed to opportunity to describe himself as a "sticky stuff" expert
He wouldn’t dare take your mom’s title
@@joe41046 😂😂😂
@@joe41046 lmaoooo
That's how we know Jake wasn't involved in the making of this video
@@elBorrachoGuapo LOL
This is starting to remind me a bit of something that happened in the late 90's and early 00's...
Balco : Hey, remember me?
100% agree with Bauer, either ban it or don't. Considering how exponentially better pitchers have gotten versus batters I'm inclined to be on the ban camp OR bring back corked bats
Bring back steroids let’s goooooo
@FairPlay Jay yep, lighter bat means The batter can swing faster and when the batter swings faster the ball is hit with more velocity and when the ball has more velocity home runs are more often.
Move the mound back, allow sticky stuff. Easy fix. More offense.
@@itsyaboi1245 lol
@@17tignau Pretty sure this isn't true, corked bats were correlated with worse performance because of weak bats
Maybe it would be better in terms of hitting singles, Tony Gwynn used the lightest bats possible for control so I don't know
It’s like when an exam is leaked - yeah you can be honest and look the other way, but your grades (and stats) will suffer from it. The environment punishes people who are honest. So everyone cheat to survive which is a sad situation :/
Aka the Roids era
fire analogy
To use your example, Bauer is the guy that showed the professor the final answers were leaked for a week before hand, but was ignored and dismissed.
So he then posts the leaked answers in the campus newspaper and gives a copy to everyone before the final, in front of the professor.
@@fomori2 very Batman like
It's almost like you're describing the social framework of modern America. Baseball will always be a microcosm for life, and visa versa.
I don’t normally like Joe West, but it kinda makes sense to me - his decision puts the criticism on Joe West, not the pitcher or opposing manager. That’s good umpiring.
Love how Jomboy looks 19 and 45 simultaneously! Stay young at heart Jimmy!
He stays young from eating Trevor Bauer D.
I literally haven't watched baseball in years and this channel has gotten me so interested in baseball since it popped up on my feed in the last few weeks. Good shit, love your videos
your vids are the best. No cringe intro blaring music, no wasting time, just straight to the point. Love em
I hate how the media is making Bauer the scapegoat while he’s been the one against it from the start and now that he’s using it everyone suddenly cares
The only reason we have the data and formulas is because Trevor is a weirdo stud nerd who has enough a-hole in him to not care about everyone's feelings and take it public.
Politically it makes sense
So you should tell kids its ok to cheat. 👍👍
@Kelltron I think it’s both cuz Ken Rosenthal has made a lot of articles about Bauer as well
That's exactly why he should've kept the moral high ground
The way you explained the spin being affected, perfect, MLB couldn't do it any better. Well broken down
Pitchers in 2021: I'm a Dapper Dan man.
I really hope this comment blows up 🤣
I don't carry Dapper Dan. I carry Fop.
Must be a suiter
Do. not. seek. the. treasure.
Well isn't this ball park a geographical oddity!
Jomboy preparing the field for an "Astros scandal" level of a shitstorm that is very much coming. Grab your popcorn ladies and gents, it's gonna be a ride.
This has been going on forever. I’d be amazed if anything happened.
I'll never forget when the umps confiscated Albert Belle's bat after a game-winning hit in the playoffs. Bell protested loudly while displaying his massive bicep. The manager was outraged. The Indians claimed they've been done wrong in their own ballpark. But hours later it was reported that someone scaled the ceiling and was able to drop inside the umpires room and steal the bat. Evidence gone. No crime.
Not exactly how it went. Yes, they discovered that someone had broken in and switched the bats because whoever did it was very sloppy and there were broken ceiling tiles and whatnot. They also knew the bats had been switched because the one that was in there looked completely different than Albert Belle’s AND it had a different player’s name on it. The American League recovered the correct bat from the Indians in exchange for not involving the FBI, sawed it open and discovered it was corked, and Belle received a suspension.
It's called preventative umpiring... It's a good move to prevent a problem.
Would love to see more umpires taking this proactive stance on the foreign substance issue. Enforcing this league wide = more balls in play which = more exciting games, simple
I’m with you man! Why is it so hard to just be like nah use this ball, or nope change your hat. Or whatever it is, don’t kick anyone out or anything just make sure they can’t like Uber cheat
@@hunteranfinsen2804 agreed and you can't blame the pitchers it's mlb that allowed this to become a common practice, ask @Trevor bauer and his huge contract why you wouldn't when everyone else is getting rich doing it!
This is why I come here. JOMBOY literally telling me what's going on when no one else is.
th-cam.com/video/-SDIb2rf9EA/w-d-xo.html plenty of people talkinga bout it
Thank you for making this video Jomboy! I had heard in passing that baseball had a problem with foreign substances, but it was awesome the way you explained the whole thing. Now I can have some context for future developments.
If it was enforced every game it would be different, but it’s not. Enforce it fairly or change the rule.
But Joe West not ejecting him was a fair move.
It is hard to enforce nowadays because sticky substances have been engineered to be very discrete and hard to spot. They should just legalize it so the non cheaters are not disadvantaged. This is not like steroids where people are doing physiological changes to their body. Plus with sticky substances, pitchers have more control resulting in less hit by pitch injuries.
I say legalize sticky substances and move the mound back to make it easier for batters.
I feel weird not being mad at Joe west.
@@andrew3448 dude pine tar gives more grip making the ball move in weird ways so it is an enhancement, it's like using aluminum bats instead of wood because it hits the ball harder.
@@unanimousreporting8250 thank you captain obvious.
That is a dogshit analogy, it is easy to enforce aluminum bats and takes zero time to do so there is not an unfair playing field and aluminum bats are banned for player safety. Enforcing sticky substances, time and time again, has been a problem and has only gotten worse as it became more ubiquitous and easier to hide. We only implemented the rule to reduce the strength of pitchers not because sticky substances goes against the spirit of the game. There are other ways to reduce the strength of pitchers (move mound back, lower mound, tighter/true strikezone enforcement) without introducing nuance in the rules that allows for unfairness due to another rule that can be cheated. You cannot cheat the mound being moved back two feet (unless you were Carter Capp and his hop-step delivery - which they banned the year following his breakout) but players can and have skirted the foreign substance ban for decades.
Why do you feel the MLB would try developing a stickier baseball or collecting data on sticky substances if not to eventually make a change that levels the playing field since enforcement has always been a problem?
I love jomboys technical demonstration of how the stickiness works. We definitely need more of that. Learning much!
I’m running out of videos after going down the rabbit hole with this channel, sad times. Fallen in love with baseball again because of these breakdowns!
Woah, joe west doing a half decent job, starting to like the guy
I know, right!?
let’s not get crazy now
@@1231crazymonkey hahaha, let's not say things we don't mean, things we can't take back
He’s great. I think he’s better in the field rather than behind the plate.
Let’s see him have the balls to go after an Astros pitcher or Gerrit Cole and then maybe
Only reason MLB is investigating Bauer is because he made them look like absolute donkeys
Well to be fair it’s pretty obvious he uses foreign substances, but so does everyone else
look at his spin rate increase in 2019 and the subsequent inflated contract he signed.
@@lmSloth10 Agreed. I was commenting on the fact that he is the only one "Under investigation" by MLB, and I would think that that is just Manfred and CO who are unhappy Bauer called them out all the way back in 2018.
No it's because he cheats.
I don't think MLB needed Bauer's help with that.
I’ve been watching your videos religiously for the past 3 months and this is the first I’ve heard of you having a podcast
Bauer with the "it's not a crime if they don't charge you" move of the decade
I mean, I think it's more like "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" situation, and I don't fault him at all. There is way too much money on the table to not do it if it's an option, and unlike steroids, there are no adverse health effects. It's baseball. You'd have to be insane not to use the substance and make an additional hundred million dollars. Ask Garret Cole.
Bauer told them to either enforce it or he would cheat. They didn't enforce it so he cheated. Bauer is a hero for forcing their hand.
Get Trevor on the pod and ask him what he thinks should be done
Fanboy D rider.
He uses the sticky stuff lol
5 out of 6 no hitters this year were thrown by guys with increased spin rates that increased unnaturally. Only Kluber threw a clean no-hitter. His spin rate has been down recently compared to his Cy Young years.
Imagine being the ball boy that Joe West brings the “evidence” to
_why imagine this? I don't get it_
It's disgusting they're going after Bauer. They want to send a message that you shouldn't speak up instead of one that you shouldn't cheat.
it's pretty obvious Bauer cheats though lmao
@@mistafrooz Oh, totally, but when you look at the whole picture like Jomboy lays out here it's pretty easy to see that's not why they're going after him.
@@zephyrast3036 ah that's a reach. i know bauer's probably your favorite player but there's not a conspiracy to target him lmao
It’s pretty easy to go after the guy that keeps talking about it and throwing it in the MLB’s face....
@@mistafrooz Because it's like everyone has pointed out and stated. He is the one who has been talking about it for a few years now and described how it was unfair. Last season he started using it, had a dominant year and got paid just like he said. And now his name is at the top for this scandal?
Crazy hearing J.T.’s name all the time in the MLB. Went to middle school and H.s. With that man. Great to see a kid from our small city in the MLB.
great breakdown. trevor bauer tried to expose this and they did nothing, so he went to a chemist and got the best stuff they can make. it's like watching a wiffle ball game now... have you seen the clip/picture of yadier molina looking around on the ground for the ball, and it's stuck to his chest protector? he just stands there with it like that so everyone can see.
That Molina clip isn't really evidence of this. That simply occured because the ball collapsed his chest protecter and essentially grabbed on to it in doing so. When Molina takes the ball of his protector it leaves a permanent dent in it for the rest of the game. The ump inspected the ball that game because it was suspicious, but said it was not sticky at all, they even tested the ball later and only found rosin on it.
The Yadier Molina clip looks suspicious, but when you break it down and look at his chest protector and break down the material used in the Rawlings chest protector, you can see that this is just a freak accident because a dent in his chest protector exposed the ball to the inner layer of the chest protector which is DESIGNED to do exactly what it did, to deaden movement.
edit: funnily enough, not sure if it's just coincidence, Molina does not wear a Rawlings brand chest protector anymore.
I think he did a breakdown on this 🤔 don't remember what he titled it.
@@DrRhinoceros lol, i've been playing and watching baseball for many years and that's the first time i've ever seen a baseball stick to a chest protector, and your explanation is physically impossible, the ball is literally sticking to the protector, how in the hell can the ball be stuck in an indentation if 95% of the ball is visible? mlb is lying.
Lol the MLB deadened the balls and gave the pitcher carte blanche to substance-up, all in the same year.
Gee, I wonder why there have been so many no-hitters? 🤔
Good for the Umpire!
Doing his job and handled it Very well.
Jomboy: the master enhancing the way we see the game. Not since some Brad Pitt movie has someone singlehandedly changed so much.
Twelve Monkeys?
@@tired5 Moneyball
Meet Joe Black?
@@clamstain Excellent film but more of a Christmas movie, ammirite? ;)
@@MrFuzyUnibrow I should probably watch that one-- No, the correct answer was True Romance; True Romance was the answer...
I actually understand why Joe West did it. He just wanted to nip it in the bud to avoid the game slowing down with Tony coming out to complain about it. It kinda didn't work, but I get why he did it.
Well, this may explain, in part, why MLB batting averages are 20+ percentage points below what they were in 2017. That and the average pitch being 5 MPH faster.
I think Shildt really hit the nail on the head here. We gonna tell guys they can’t wear sunscreen? Take the rosin bag away? Tell them they can’t touch their arm? His spin rate was unaffected by it completely that game. His avg this whole year was on par with what he threw that game without his hat. It’s absurd, especially when like Shildt said, there’s guys having stuff concocted in a lab. If you wanna consider this cheating, they’re going after the guy who’s cheating least lol.
I’m torn on the Bauer situation. Yes he was flagging it, but he’s still now actively doing it and it’s clearly helping him significantly. That chart that Jomboy shows of his 3000 RPM pitches is pretty damning. He was never able to reach that RPM until he used the sticky stuff.
However how is it fair if mlb sits on their hands and all the other players are playing better and getting more money. That’s not fair either. He shouldn’t be the scapegoat for this at all, but he’s not “cheating the least.”
MLB has a huge issue here, cause no matter what they do people will be unhappy with result. If you make a standard substance the older fans will say the game ain’t like it was. If you ban substances people will say mlb in the way of progress. Lol.
I do know that manfred isn’t capable of solving this. We need a new commissioner as well.
@@alexwhite3232 Baur gains nothing by taking a moral high ground, but if he cheats like everyone else he can secure himself a couple extra $100 Million. I dont see any reason why he wouldnt do it.
What's absurd is getting caught cheating and then people going out and defending it
Cheating the least is still cheating lol
@@christophercarrigg3775 is it really breaking a rule if the league doesn’t enforce the rule
Thanks for the information about substances and spin rate. I’m learning so much from your channel and content! Keep it up I love it!
went to a minor leauge game yesterday, one of the pitchers got ejected for this and the two managers almost threw hands lmao
wait it was the Giants minor league team right? and it was a taiwanese pitcher
This is amazing, thank you for covering this!
Body armor, oven mitts on the basepaths, a virtually flat mound, thumb guards, pine tar and grip tape and we're upset about some sticky stuff.
Classic Jomboy with the high quality and to-the-point info, love it. Keep it up homie!
GERRIT COLE IS THE KING OF THE STICK
Guess where he learned to use that stuff? Yep same place Charlie Morton and Justin Verlander did as well. Charlie's career before Houston was pure mediocrity
@@PartyYourLifeAway man you just want to blame them for anything
He cheated in Houston and now in New York 😂😂🤣🤣
Great reporting --- reallly fascinating
Does anyone else find it crazy that the one year that the MLB “Legalizes” illegal substances, is the year we’re seeing a spike in K’s and a lot more no hitters or close to no hitters than normal.
The philosophy of hitting has also changed though. A lot of players are trying to only hit home runs now which causes a lot more swing and misses.
@@DoubleDash28 they have been like that for the past 3-4 years. This year stands out more then ever for K’s and no hitters.
“Ump says, come here little boy”😂
Just the tip of the ice berg. My brother & I were at that Sox game as well. This is going to explode! Nice work Jom
So now they're making "Go-Go juice" on the mound in front of everyone lol.
“Take this hat, guard it with your goddamn life” 😂😂😂
Incredible situation. Thanks so much for the excellent breakdown.
Joe West, best umpire in the game.
said no one ever🤣
He's a close second to C.B. Bucknor
@@chuben8160 😂
Lol
@@chuben8160 yeah because only angel Hernandez is the best ump ever
I thought it was weird how many no hitters have been happening this year. It makes sense now.
“Pitchers this year have free reign...”
Video starts w/ pitcher getting called out 😅😅
Honestly well done by Joe West. He didn't write the rule, and he doesn't ump every game, so it's not fair to blame him for the inconsistency with which it's enforced, but he found a way to keep the result from being contested while also allowing Gallegos to pitch. He could have just waited until he threw one pitch and then tossed him if he wanted to.
but it was honestly not foreign substance by any means.. pretty sure they can tell the difference between substances or actual dirt on the hat... sunscreen part maybe more difficult to tell but if he never had that mark on his hat, then it wouldnt be a problem anyway
@@ShengYu1995 to be fair, it needs to be a bit more discrete if it is meant to help with grip. The umps know that pretty much every pitchers uses foreign substances. They aren’t complete morons. They just want it to be a bit more “covert”.
That was so unbelievably in depth
I actually remember Bauer got hated on by Astros fans since that's the team he was calling out with the "trading for a guy and upping his RPM overnight". Literally nobody listened to the guy because everyone was too focused talking about the one time he tweeted about politics and hating on him for saying the Astros were cheating
I mean its funny how he was complaining about people cheating then he cheats himself and gets caught because his dumbass can't keep his mouth shut about it. Weird how much he displayed his discomfort about it. Yet obviously felt comfortable enough to do it himself eventually. Pretty lame if you ask me and he deserves the hate for being a hypocrite.
@@BD-zs5zd Why wouldn't he do it too? the league doesnt give a shit about it so why handicap yourself. Doing what pitchers like Cole do won him a Cy Young and got him a 100+ mill contract. He gains nothing from sitting on a moral high ground.
@@BD-zs5zd He's cheating AFTER exposing how exactly everyone had already been cheating and finding out that the MLB doesn't give a shit. I'd do the exact same thing if I were him.
@@Ryan-eh9vo congrats he won a cy young by using foreign substances. Hes obviusoy not good enough to win one without foreign substances and thats why its lame. Literally is fucking lame. "Everyone else is doing it" yeah well everyone else is as well lame. Just because you can do it, and get away with it, doesn't mean you should. I used to have a ton of respect for this guy buy hes just another cheater.
@@aarondonald1611 okay it doesn't matter. Hes still cheating and being a whiny hypocritical bitch about it. Like he made such a scene about it then quietly decided to cheat himself. And look he won a cy young due to him cheating. If thats not lame to you then idk man. He doesn't win that cy young without his foreign substance and you know that
Anyone ever notice that all the pitchers in Houston revitalized their careers when got there? Always thought it was strange but man got from hitting scandal to pitching in a span of a couple years Manfred is honestly a doormat at this point letting the league walk all over him cause he won’t do shit
Manfred is a stain on mlb 🙄
I swear he hates the game & is working to destroy it at this point ugh
Less to do with joining the stros, more to do with leaving the pirates
@@michaeljordan6239 No lol it has been shown pitchers spin rate increases dramatically when they join stros 🤔🙄
@@JustMe-nf1mf False Equivalence
@@michaeljordan6239 🙄
I love the fact that in reality, when the enforcement kicks in if Trevor stops they legit can't touch him because it'd be a PR Chernobyl. He is essentially Batman of the Foreign Substance War.
Theres a game earlier this season where i spotted kimbrel with stuff on his hat. It was super obvious too
Yep I saw that too. Makes me think that's why Shildt did this.
Kimbrel has had that thumb spot on the bill of his hat since he was a rookie with braves.
It’s every game. That’s what Kimberly does. His hat is always like that.
Shildt said it because he knows MLB literally doesn’t care. Pitchers could just go out there with sunscreen in their pocket and mix it with rosin and MLB would just collect data and not collect how well pitchers are doing with dead balls and sticky substances.
The PGA will auto-disqualify any golfer who does anything vaguely against the rules that improves their backspin on a swing. It's absolutely insane that the MLB doesn't police this in almost any meaningful way.
Well, baseball’s player union wields considerable power that PGA players don’t, especially when it comes to equipment and safety. Even if all the owners, GMs, and MLB executives wanted foreign substances banned, they might not be able to do it if the player’s union stands their ground. Plus, the MLB has a very long history of being overly cautious to consider something cheating. They hesitated on steroids, sign stealing, corking bats, spitballs, spiking defenders, hiding extra balls in the outfield grass, fan interference. It’s like MLB actively promotes the league as being lopsided. Even the uniqueness of the fields gives off an imbalanced nature that other sports lack. Imagine if in the NHL teams could construct one side of the ice wider than the other, then draft players that would be more well suited for that home rink. In golf, being an individualist competition, you need uniformity. Baseball has managed to get away with it for 150 years or so now.
@@AV57 I mostly agree with you. The player’s union has too much power and the MLB doesn’t attempt to hide biases and lopsidedness. But, I disagree with you on the stadium design. Like the field still impacts all players, so all the quarks still balance it out. Not to mention, these field shapes are prevalent across every level from high school to professional.
it's almost like the MLB has a century-long history of being indifferent to cheaters when most pro sports leagues have a real zero-tolerance policy towards cheating.
Part of it is due to the attitude most batters have historically had concerning it. It's starting to change a bit, but for a long time batters have argued that they prefer better grip for pitchers to reduce the number of batters hit by pitches etc.
@@howardbaxter2514, we agree on just about everything. I disagree on the ballpark designs. GMs can most definitely design a team that gains a reliable advantage at home. Whitey Ball in the 80s proved that beyond the shadow of a doubt. Sacrifice power for speed and defense on the fastest and hottest Astro turf in the league and you’ve got a team that can beat anyone if their pitchers keep the ball in the ballpark. In Minute Maid Park and Fenway, it’s extremely beneficial to acquire lefties that can hit pop flies to left field for cheap hits off the walls. Hell, when the Giants built their new stadium, they even laughed about how it was designed for Bonds to catch Willie Mays with the short porch in right field. It’s the only easy home run in that park, but it only suits a leftie with the ability to hit it right down the line. Hitting the ball to right center is only good for triples there. And for decades now the strategy in Chicago has been to induce fly balls, because 75% of the time the wind kills the ball, while the grass was so poorly maintained that it would make the ball snake and cause havoc for fielders. Too bad both the Chicago organizations were ran about as poorly as their landscaping crew managed the grass.
Thank you jomboy for using your voice to call these people out.
I don't watch baseball but its amazing that blatant cheating like this happens. Its eye-opening.
It was almost this bad during the Steroid Era. You look at pictures of guys year over year and can see their heads blowing up like beach balls.
This is the exact problem: “don’t ding my guy, other guys are doing worse!” 🙄
The sunscreen/rosin combo is accepted and was stated by the MLB to be fine. Schildt had a problem because he's seeing other pitchers with actual banned substances on their person, and they arent getting messed with.
Baseball really needs to get this foreign substance stuff under control. If we are being honest, these special sauce pitching substances are a bigger advantage for pitchers than PED's ever were.
@@MrKandlejack The thing is, Joe West didn't run the guy, he just said get you a new hat. Shildt basically came out and got tossed for nothing. He really went out there to argue, "whataboutism"? C'mon, that's just weak sauce.
Yeah ur right but when there's pitchers doing worse u would at least want them to also be called out on. Like imagine punishing a guy who robbed a store but not dealing with a guy murdered someone.
@@zacharyfett2491 I don't think schildt knew wtf was going on and acted before he found out.
My man JomBoy is on the case again!
Bauer is an absolute legend for calling out MLB and then playing by their rules to prove a point. 🐐
“...and future compensation” *followed by silence as if to say “well would you look at that”* 😂
When you said nice pitch at 1:33 I literally said the same thing. Damn that was beautiful. 😲
Literally went to a minor league game today and of course it was raining just a bit. The home team’s pitcher did horrible the first two innings. 1 in the first 5 in the second. Comes out in the third and gets two guys to strike out.
The blues look at him and see something on his belt so they kick him out
Isn't it Ironic how Mike Fiers is one of the main cheaters here? Just a little too Ironic, don't you think?
Doesn’t seem ironic at all, he learned his habits on a cheating team.