Is Bangkok Pat Wrong About Thai Tax?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- #Thailand #ThailandTax #Taxes
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ALSO, NOT MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO IS THE ANALYSIS THAT LEAVING EVERY 179 DAYS AUTOMATICALLY MAKES ONE IMMUNE FROM TAX LIABILITY IN THAILAND. THAT IS ALSO NOT, STRICTLY SPEAKING, TRUE AS THERE COULD BE FACT PATTERNS WHERE EVEN THOSE NOT IN THAILAND FOR 180 DAYS COULD FIND THEMSELVES SUBJECT TO TAXES, IT ALL DEPENDS UPON THE FACTS IN THE UNDERLYING CASE. See link here: • 🌐EXPAT LIFE IN THAILAN...
Bangkok Pat makes top tier videos. 💯
He does indeed. I am a big fan.
--BWH
The problem is that interpretation of the law in Thailand is not consistent and is very loose. Will interpretation of these tax changes be the same as we see with immigration offices, where immigration offices in different locations sometimes interpret visa regulations differently, and have different documentation requirements, dependent upon which side of the bed the immigration officer got up from that morning.
That is the reason this taxation regulation may be a problem for expats.
Still confused😱
Government greed is astounding.
Having so much uncertainty about staying in tax compliance is a big problem on its own.
Regardless of enforcement
Not even the Thai Revenue department knows what to do. Spoke to multiple accountants just reading and interpreting. Have fun
Not that long ago , the Swiss embassy had a meeting with the tax department . Their answers were pretty clear .
But most retired expats have at least up to 2000 monthly pension which they tranfer monthly to Thailand and even with the mentioned 150-190k deduction the yearly sum is high nearly 800k thb and tax rate is almost 20% according to the official tax rate list. About 4000 $ to pay isn‘t it? So it does affect the wast majority of retirees
Most or some? But state / social pensions are not assessible. And the funds that are assessible are likely to be covered by the DTA. But annuity profits, capital gains might not be. Case by case for those.
2000 what? retirees from where?
It's a progressive tax, not a flat rate of tax. Using UOB's calculator based on 800k baht assessable income it's around 6% fortunately, not 20% as you quoted.
@@crazyg74$2000 I'm guessing
Speaking to other ex pats, most were never aware of the money they've brought in from outside was taxable. You obviously know the rules but most of them don't. Thars why it's causing panic. I'm getting questions like, "I brought in a lot of money 10 years ago to buy a condo but never would have done that if I thought I'd pay tax" so they're now worried they would owe tax from years gone by. Maybe you need to do a video from a layman's point if view rather than from a finance professional's point of view because most of us can't relate to what you're telling us. Tell your viewers if they'll be pursued for bring in money in retrospective years. Tell us with the knowledge of the rules how it will affect the average retire from now. Is the 150k per year limit without tax realistic because most can't live on that. I guess most people brought over their pensions in the past and nothing happened and want to know in real terms if anything will actually change this year with regards to enforcement compared to doing the same in previous years without problem. These are the things we need to know
It means if you want to transfer funds from savings abroad you're going to get taxed? What kind of proof that you've paid tax on those already would one have to provide? It's not good!
How do they prove what you are bringing in ? They cant.
We probably won't know the real impact of this until middle of next year.....ie. This years taxes having to filed my 31MAR25 and of course the processing time after that. Or nothing much will happen and it'll be business as usual for retirees and other one year extensions. Until then it's all just speculation.
Agree. But speculation has a cost...married to a Thai woman for 5 years. no children, military pension transferred each month from a European Union country. The uncertainty and the risk of de facto double taxation despite a DTA linked to this change from January 2024 has made us postpone the purchase of vehicles (car and motorcycle), construction work... in short all major expenses "not essential" planned are suspended at least until the 2nd half of 2025. The reality of the application of this law in 2025 will decide all our next investments in Thailand. And maybe our departure in case of worst case scenario
@@monsieurgdavid I think you will be okay (but that's just me thinking), being Europe I reckon your country would have a tax arrangement with Thailand and your tax is paid (unless your countries tax is lower than Thailand, then you may have to pay tax on the difference).
All that said and done, I moved money for both 24 & 25 last year.....just in case.....and to give me the opportunity to see how it plays out in 2025.
PS. Married to Thai for 22 years, 2 kids 20 & 16, first came here in 84 and lived here permanently for the last 18 years plus......all that means is I am just speculating much the same as everyone else......I think It will be okay though :) :) :)
Very interesting, hot topic, can be a bit frightening. I wonder how I will be assessed-I came in Jan 2024, am staying on a retirement visa, and remit $ from home country bank to BKK bank. I have not seen one dinky thread of process, of how to plan, nothing. Which makes me conclude that however this regulation will be processed and enforced in the near future (for the likes of retirees from western countries), pure speculation is the noise of the moment. Please set me straight if I misunderstand. Thanks for your videos. 😃🙏
I am in a similar situation. Retirment visa and I use cash transfers from my savings to maintain my 800k baht balance. Hoping the Australian dual tax agreement will apply in my case.
Never go to a lower like this. He is working not for you
It will be enforced through the process of extending one's visa. The loophole will be high yield earners will simple get the latest version of the elite visa and then they are exempt. Hence a costly and legal loophole where the government gets an up front amount. Many who have retired and are here living on savings is a big issue. Why does one have to pay taxes on money earned 10 or 20 years ago? If we leave then the country of Thailnd will suffer from such policies. They are forcing people to think of Thailand as a 179 day or less place to be. This is how people feel and for what ever reason, you do not wish to acknowledge this. If Thai Tax department would simply release a detailed account of what will be required to submit when renewing a visa the following year, the stress and issues could be resolved very easy.
yes.
'Savings' was taxed when it was earned. You've already paid tax on the money saved 10-20 years ago. Unless that's somehow lower than the tax Thailand would have charged, you're fine.
Typical thought process. Give me now, forget later and the big picture. Spend the money now and then what?
Why do you think the elite visa holders are not taxed? Do you have a source?
I visited the local revenue office in Hua Hin this week to apply for a tax number. They had no idea how to proceed or advise. They were not interested in researching for me. However, they said next month they hope to have more information. In the meantime, I documented all my financial information as of 31 December 2023 and will ensure no comingling of future accessible funds with life savings and state, social, military pensions.
Also went to the tax office in HH. Also no advice. I've done the same recording all assets as of 31.12.2023 that I'll be able to bring into the Kingdom at a later date.
dont do that! a huge mistake. do you own a thai business?
@@jameswest3275 nope
It’s been a month, how’s it going?
If an expat needs to buy a new car, will there be an added tax on transfer of savings to Thailand? There needs to be much more clarity about the double taxation rules.
I agree! For example, as a new retiree who hasn't cashed out his 401K, when I do will I be taxed twice, by USA and Thailand? It could make a difference as to where I retire.
Six minutes wasted . No useful info . People will be impacted . They will have to prove , if requested , to prove how previously paid taxes in home country may lead to, or not , to tax credits in Thailand . Somebody repatriating 150,000 per month from a pension , will be affected considerably if he can’t prove that a double taxation has happened . Documents to be made in English or Thai . Hardly anyone speaks English at the tax department . I have been there. I know . If documents are not in either languages , certified true translation required . And then try to prove what you have paid on what source . This channel just creates confusion for their business purpose , rather than using information that is out there . That being said , not everything is crystal clear . Most of it is .
Impossible to prove how much money you are bringing to Thailand. Mass hysteria over nothing.
There are a few key factors, one "needs" to fullfill, to be liable to tax. First you stay over 180 days in Thailand, second your bring money into Thailand (transfer!) after 01.01.2024, third, this money is income earned after 01.01.2024. As far all all analysis of the rules go, any savings holding before 01.01.2024 should still be NOT tacxable. And if all these 3 factors apply, there is still the double taxation to take into account. BUT as far as I understand, it does not automatically set you free from paying taxes. It means, that if you MAY be liable to taxation, the tax you have paid in your homecountry already may be "credited" to the tax you would pay in Thailand. So there might still be some tax to pay.....
Very well put Thank You.
Just make it for businesses or thai passport holders/citizens, and let's move on
Let' say I have a retirement visa (O or OA) with 800k in the bank that I let sleep there. Twice a year I go back to my homecountry and when I return to Thailand I bring kind of 10.000 Euro cash for spending in the Land of Smile. How will I pay tax ?
what about bringing 800,000 baht into the country for your retirement extension of stay or 400,000 for your marriage visa? you going to do that without knowing what the tax rate is? are you going the give your US tax returns to Thai immigration with all your most sensitive personal information for them to copy?
They can already get that information without your help...
No need to be a genius to understand that they simply eliminated the loophole of off shore profits becoming savings after a year abroad . Expats eventually could be in some cases collateral damage but the aim is at the Foreign branches of Thai Corporates like some BVI's 🤔 ? Just an example 😅
I respect this channel but you are so wrong! many people are going to be paying taxes now where they did not before. this is a disaster for retired Expats bringing more than their pensions into the country. buy a condo or vehicle this year and pay taxes on that money next year without having any idea what the regulations are or tax rates.
Show us where
Only the dumb will do
Good points. I like Pat, too. He is clearly on the side of the little guy.
Pat is a legend 🙏🏻. L👀kn at da Lawyer
Well, my presumption is that if I am in Thailand for more than 180 days, any money I bring to Thailand including my social security and pension money will be taxed. What say you sir?
If you have already paid tax on the income in a foreign jurisdiction then it will be a deductable. If you have not, due to exemptions or policy in the jurisdiction the money came from, then you will be taxed according to Thai law.
This is pretty much how most tax systems work, if you are a tax resident.
The change specifically addresses people who were delaying repatriating foreign income to another tax year in order to avoid paying Thai tax. Now they can't do that any more.
your pension is from the tax you payed during your life of working ...it's already been taxed...(AUSTRALIA).
@@Tugela60 So, if I owe no federal or state tax in the USA on my Social Security, Thailand may still tax it if I live there on an "O" retirement visa? Like many have said, Ex-pat retirees are already infusing the Thai economy with their retirement cash.
@@PartnerBoss In all tax jurisdictions with tax treaties you pay the greater of tax due in the two jurisdictions involved, or the balance in the second jurisdiction if there is a difference in rates. So yes, while a certain income might be tax free in one jurisdiction, that exclusion does not exist in the other and consequently the income is still liable for tax there.
To avoid these issues it is best to live in the jurisdiction where you derive your income, otherwise things may become complicated.
Tax tax. Tax Tax
One question, if anybody can answer. Who is liable to paying the tax. The person who sends money to Thailand, or the person who actually receives the money in Thailand ? I get it, when you send money from YOUR home country bank to YOUR thai bank account. but if there are 2 people involved... Example: I send money to my landlord in thailand, directly to his bank account. who will pay the tax ?
Landlord pays tax no matter what, because that's income to them. Unfortunately, there is no 'the tax'. The same bundle of money gets taxed almost every times it's exchanged.
You pay income tax on your income, then pay rent. The landlord receives your (already taxed) rent as income and has to pay tax on it.
Living in thailand since the 90's, they are not going to bother with hunting people with 3-4k a month in the bank to get a few dollars. Too much work. Its just easier to increase the airport in and out taxes to get those few dollars. Thailand have been the leading tourism industry since the beginning and they are good at reeling you in and keeping you there for a long long good time if you know what i mean. Even Malaysia have drastically amend their retirement rules to compete with Thailand. Vietnam real estate is crashing cause of their high prices without a retirement visa and that tells you that thailand is way smarter and will not jeopardize their tourism domination. Its just a political stunt and the tax law is there left for you guys to juggle in the air while sticking to the day to day coffee money moving up the chain which is already in motion and perfect and less paperwork.
This has nothing to do with tourism. Tourists aren't living in Thailand and therefore are not tax residents of Thailand.
All retired have already paid their taxes!
Totally agree with your assessment of the intent, and significance for the average expat retiree, of this change. It's my understanding that tax has always been payable by Tax Residents on remittances to Thailand for earnings from the current financial year yet I doubt many expats have ever submitted a tax return. There are many BIG cats who have previously avoided huge tax liability simply by postponing remittance to Thailand until Jan 1st of the following year. Surely these are the target of the change rather than expending untold resources collecting a few thousand bht form retirees while decimating confidence in Thailand as a retirement destination.
Just money transfer it into the wifes account 😆 🤣
From what I understand it doesn’t matter if you’re a Thai citizen or a foreigner… it’s any money brought into Thailand from a foreign source, regardless of nationality. Enforcement may be difficult but I wouldn’t want to take a chance.
@@gregsholly120gifts are not taxable.
You are not quite correct, Benjamin. There is one loophole in the law. Check out the music video "Loophole" by Garfunkel and Oates.
Have email you about setting up a meeting with your office in June. Hope to hear from you soon. Thx
What's not clear to me is that while the year income was earned/received no longer matters when money is brought into Thailand, at least generally speaking, I'm not clear on whether assets earned/received in years prior when someone was not a tax resident of Thailand are excluded. For example, I don't currently reside in Thailand and am working and earning interest/dividends elsewhere in the world. In 10 years if I decide to move to Thailand and become a tax resident at that time, it makes sense that income at that point becomes taxable in Thailand. However, if I want to bring in assets that I earned before that period, is Thailand going to want to tax them? It seems like the recordkeeping required to support that while getting deductions for taxes paid previously (thanks to DTA) is essentially impossible.
I don'believe that Thailand cares of any signed paper.You can See IT in the Visa Rules for married persons.They don'care for anything they signed in the UN charta.
I totally understand expats being alarmed by the potential impacts of tax liability that they have previously never had to deal with. However, after listening to your clear explanation that this is simply a regulation that changed the (timing) of monies being brought into the Kingdom being subject to assessment and tax liability. In other words, it doesn't matter when the money was earned it's now going to be subject to an assessment of tax liability. So, if we were not taxed on our pensions and / or monthly deposits prior to this new regulation, nothing has changed. Unless, like some are suggesting, there will now be a tax assessment when we apply for our visa extensions going forward. We are past the date of January 2024, and I haven't yet heard anyone say that they were required to have a tax assessment on the incoming money when they extended their visa at immigration. Obviously, at this point, nothing has changed as I'm sure thousands of expats have extended their visa since the new regulation took effect. Am I missing something here, or are too many people jumping to conclusions?
the system to tax you is not in place yet. be looking for banks reporting to the Thai version of the IRS your total transfers into the country during 2024 next year. just like a 1099. then subtract pensions and the difference is taxable up to 35%. everyone will pay a different % rate depending on what taxes you paid in the USA on the money you bring in.
@@jameswest3275 subtract pension? But all of the money I bring in is my pension. So I'm guessing I won't pay any taxes on my pension in Thailand kinda like the way it's been for the past 9 years of living here. I'm not going to conclude that this is any big deal until I see it actually imposed on someone.
@@jameswest3275 no. any 'savings' you bring in was taxed when it was earned, so provided it was taxed 'enough', it's clear.
If you have investments or income from another country, then that's another matter.
@@crazyg74 Your statement isn't true. There are multiple types of savings accounts for retirement that are not taxed while the income was earned. A "Traditional IRA" is not taxed until money is cashed out after retirement. A "Roth IRA" is taxed during a person's earning years and not taxed at retirement.
Massive taxes coming for those that could have avoided it by planning years ago. lol
Bangkok Pat is a pro.
In what subject ?
@@ojbkk English language short form gonzo documentaries on the history and culture of the Kingdom of Thailand.