Non-Working Retirees "Are Currently Outside Of The Tax System In Thailand"?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ต.ค. 2023
- #WorkingInThailand #Retirement #ThailandTax
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Clear as mud.
"layperson analysis" = it's your money but it's not your money until you give a % to yet another government only here, you're not entitled to ANY benefits from this transaction against you. That sound about right?
If we have to pay taxes here, we should also have the right for social benefits from the Thai government.
It will never happen, we are always outsiders
It won’t work that way. It’s the same as having a green card but can never vote or getting any benefit until you become a citizen in the US. Paying tax? Green card holders pay it too.
Since I am planning to retire/move to Thailand 2024 I am very concerned about what the FACTS will be. When I sell my home in California I am forced to pay a capital gains tax, federal and state of aproximately 40%. That will equal about $300,000.!!! If I were taxed again on that capital gain in Thailand I might as well stay put in California and go down with the ship.
Put your money in a Swiss bank and use the ATM to get your money in Thailand...no tax...and no way to prove you are receiving anything.
Don't sell your house in California use it to house some migrants
Go down with the shi* you will.
To me, this is clear already you will not be double taxed.
Don’t you have a once in a lifetime federal tax exemption for capital gains ($12.92 million per person in 2023)? I’m sure Gavin Newsome will have his hand out for the State of California.
Non working retirees that are in Thailand for more than 180 days a year are tax residents of Thailand. They always have been.
Given the choices.....
1) Trust various internet comments.
2) Exert the energy to find the information myself.... hoping I'm correct.
OR
3) Trust Ben.
I pick number THREE !
Thanks Ben..... for making it clear and understandable.
What about bringing US Social Security payments into Thailand?
What about bring savings into Thailand from work done in the US 15 years ago?
We need specific information. Unsettled generalities are of little help.
As I understand it, US citizens are a bit different from most. If the money you are bringing in was already taxed in the USA, they won't tax it here in Thailand.
@markhal001 my understanding with the latest changes in their tax code, if the tie tax rate for that income level is higher you will pay the difference between what tax you paid in the US and the tax rate in Thailand. Add a quick comparison I think that if you are makingsay 50,000 to 60,000 US dollars an unearned retiree income such as interest and dividends ( possibly pension) that difference could be another 10 or 15% tax you owe to the Thailand government.
That said I have not yet read the tax treaty between the US and thailand. Hoping at least excludes all pension income.
Ben, you sound sick today. Feel better.
While Integrity Legal chooses to provide us with ambiguous threats of possible Thailand tax liability beginning on January ๅ, 2024, who do you think financially benefits if we are each individually required to seek definitive tax advice from Ben or his legal team? I've looked elsewhere for the answer to this question as it relates to me, determining that, as a U.S. citizen, I will not be exposed to any additional tax liability on funds that I transfer from the United States into Thailand.
But introducing new tax laws but not defining them is kind of not a very mature approach.
obviously more clarification is much needed!
and if the new tax law does not explicitly state that foreigners or expat retirees are excluded, then the new tax could cover or applicable to them. some people think that double tax treaty provides a good shield. maybe there is a point
most people do not
understand fully. For example,
one may not need to pay tax
in a foreign country as tax
allowance is much higher
than that of thailand. Then
what happens is that he may need
to pay tax in thailand
because the thai tax
allowance threshold is so
low. Also some tax items not
taxed overseas could be
taxed by thailand. So double
tax treaty may not help
Since U.S Va disability compensation is considered a retirement pension in Thailand and non taxable Income in the U.S. will that be considered taxable income in Thailand?
Cool
So, for new retirees it may make sense to spend less than 180 days in Thailand during the 1st tax year in order to transfer in the 800,00 baht (and however much extra money you want). Less than 180 days in a year could also be useful for transferring in funds for a condo, etc. (Depending how the tax treaties are applied in practice, though, this could all be mostly moot anyway).
Yes that solves it entirely - not a lot of fun for those that have to, lets see the condo market collapse after this change I have a couple they suck as investments as Thailand is very over priced for what you get if you have to do the above it sucks twice as hard.
There is an old adage which goes 'No taxation without representation!' I would really hope that if we are expected to contribute 'even more' in future, then the State would pick up our medical costs the same way that it does for Thai people. In that case our lagely overpriced medical insurances would no longer be necessary.... and we could use this insurance premium money to instead fund our taxes!
In EU you can take 10,000 euro with you when travel, without declaration, on arrival to Thailand have them changed to THB
But you may have to get a short term visitor friend to change them for you, as if you change them to THB, you have to show your passport. As the exchanger has to be kept on record. Don't know if it is just for audit, but it could potentially become linked....
Anybody have a good tax accountant recommendation in Chiang Mai? I am primarily retired but paying taxes in USA on rental income and may have some capital gains now and again on stock investment income that again I will be paying in USA. Am I going to be double taxed in Thailand? I have asked this question before but after watching nearly all of Integrity Thais videos I am still uncertain where I land in all this..
It seems to me that this old phrase applies... "If you want less of something tax it !" I'm just not clear if they want less monies coming into country or less expats?
Subject to the pension provisions of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and similar remuneration paid to a resident of a contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State. The term “pensions and other similar remuneration” is understood to include both periodic and single sum payments.
Example : A Thai resident receives a pension from a U.S. pension fund in connection with his past employment with a U.S. company. The pension is taxable only in Thailand.
Notwithstanding the above, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.
Example : An individual resident in Thailand receives a social security pension from the U.S. Government. The pension is taxable only in the United States.
The reference to U.S. citizens is necessary to insure that a social security payment by the Thai government to a U.S. citizen who is not resident in the United States, will not be taxed by the United States.
Annuities, as defined in the Convention, derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State.
Alimony, as defined in the Convention, paid to a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State.
Periodic payments, not being alimony, for the support of a child made pursuant to a
Great info. I'll be receiving both a Union Pension as well as Social Security. Do you happen to know if it's possible to get either one of those as a Direct deposit into a Thai bank?
I am an Australian getting a disability pension Will I be taxed when I bring it to Thailand
What is I am already old. I don't work at all, and live off Trust money with me being the only beneficiary of the Trust?
In australia thais treated the same as normal Australians not just onecside but thats thai culture there
Currently Thailand has a tax treaty with the US to not double tax income. Until that is clarified I would say there’s not tax on already taxed income. Unless the treaty is ended.
The only clear thing so far is that there are no clear guidelines and all is very murky. Even skilled professionals like yourself can at best come up with some educated guesses and plausible scenarios. In my humble opinion the only sensible thing to do, if possible, is to wait and see. I believe that this lack of clear guidelines on the application of the existing laws and applicable tax treaties will have some negative impact on the Thai economy if it is not promptly addressed because of all of the capital coming from abroad being withheld for the time being. I imagine that it is not an irrelevant sum of money that is not entering the Thai economy, this can have an unfavorable domino effect.
The state pension in the UK is not taxable income in the UK, it should not therefore be considered taxable income in Thailand.
The problem is the UK DTA does not cover state pensions. Some state pensions now exceed the personal tax allowance slightly. If they do the tax is taken from your other pensions.
Tax free lump sum (UK) from is potential at risk, from occupational and private pensions. Similarly with Tax free payments from UK (FCA regulated) ISAs. Often a proportion of retirement income provision in the UK.
Anyone taking their pension and moving to Staying in Thailand that year best for avoidance of doubt not be there more than 179 days 😮.
LMAO All Pensions ARE taxable in UK, it's income!!
@@timrowley4274uk state pension is not taxable
@@timrowley4274only private pensions are taxable
@@timrowley4274and company pensions are taxable
Might not be possible to tax foreigners without tangible benefits in place.
But they already discriminate with dual pricing, at various venues, some medical treatment. So maybe they shall introduce some? But I wouldn't hold your breath for them....😂 Remember most are non-resident tax residents, if over 180 days.
Why would they ever be in the any tax system...they paid their taxes already...let them enjoy their retirement!
Just bring 20k usd to bkk
More talking in circles
Foreigners needs to pay their way in Thailand.
We live here and every penny we spend in rent,food,drink,travel,medical insurance,car/bike insurance,goods and services goes directly into the Thai economy with no official government benefits in return…. We definitely contribute our fair share at the moment and don’t need to be bled for more.
Some are saying if you are a us pensioner and under the tax treaty not subject to double tax here that as your tax residency is in thai, therefore you are not subject to irs taxes as well. I know of 4 people who have filed amended returns and received full refunds on all taxes witheld for tax in the us under section 20
Is this true and what is your take on this
Troll.
@@2000jago "Benefits of living in Thailand"? What the hell are you talking about? Foreigners do not receive benefits living in Thailand. We already paid too much.
It's already very difficult to live in Thailand being it's very primitive and dysfunctional.
Why do you think any expat is here in the first place? I have the benefit of tax free Social Security I worked for my whole life which is not taxable. I should now be taxed on it in a third world country? Ain't gonna happen and I'm sure most expats would agree. I'll just go back to the good old USA.