Great book for a beginner . th-cam.com/users/postUgkxD-QRFQz730FJEh4f9BYSf-nkIMIC9hL_ this book really starts from the beginning, as in it explains what basic tools are and how to use them. But when it gets to the art of creating joints and how and when to use them this book really starts to teach you something. At least that was my experience.
Great video Ethan, you explained things clearly and don't rush , always my go to channel for when I need to know anything about wood work. Keep up the good work mate. 🇬🇧
In the past, when installing fitted shelves made from fair faced plywood (usually redwood), I have often used narrow architrave (usually whitewood) on the front to conceal the exposed ply edges. It can be flush with the level of the shelf or maybe just a little higher to create a bit of a lip at the front of the shelf - both work well. The contrasting colours make no excuse of what is going on and they marry up well. The Architrave helps to keep the shelves straight and support any load that will be placed upon them. The effect works very well when you are fitting shelves in alcoves on both sides of a central fire breast. Remember to start with a large shelf opening at floor level (20" to 24") and gradually reduce them as they go up towards the ceiling (12" to 10"); I would recommend 20" at the bottom and 12" at the top - anything below 10" at the top would not look good.
You are extremely good at your craft as well as explaining the details related to same. That capacity to transfer knowledge is another gift. How talented! 🪚🔨📐
I did a face frame on my kitchen closet but put the face under the shelf instead of attached to the front. If it is on the front, only the fasteners are holding the shelf from bowing downwards under the weight, vs. the edge of the face. In addition, of course, the shelves are tied into the back wall and side walls. That's a long run of shelf, 3 feet. But oh, my god is that solid. It has zero deflection under heavy loads of canned goods and other things.
For some shop furniture I've done sold wood edge banding (3/16" to 1/4" thick), but will be doing face frames for a nicer sports locker style shelving unit in my garage. Great video!
Personally, I'm using glue-on edge banding. But, another way is to use 1/2"-3/4" trim that is then attached to those ugly edges. There are several router bits available that allow you to create complimentary faces in the carcass faces and the trim. These look just as good, or better. Don't forget about pin nailers. 23 gauge headless pins are nearly invisible.
Thank you.... as a new DiYer, im trying to tackle new shop cabinets, iv done the caucus, was trying to install the hinges n all, but everything just looked off, then saw some videos with this face trim thing.... how much is the standard overlap? 1-3cm? They done interfere with drawer slides and hinges right?
99% of videos that claim "this little secret will change how you work!" are just clickbait, this video really was a game changer for this DIY novice, and I'm so appreciative of this man's channel!
I'm just moving into a new house, that is pretty much stuck in the 70's in terms of decor. A lot of the cupboard doors are uneven and run into each other after years of sagging. This made me think that it could be easy to put face frames on the front of the cabinets as a quick method to make things look better in the short term, and have a better surface to mount different cupboard doors to. Not a complete remodeling, but something to make the look a little fresher.
i’m in a opposite situation ; a kitchen full of cheap looking builder grade a cabinets all face framed that look dated. To modernize the look i want to reface them with glossy slab doors. i have been trying to find out if i need to remove the frames first in order for the doors to go edge to edge (ie no frame showing behind the door) ?? advice?
Always free floating face frames, always pocket screws, always stain rather than paint for me. But I just make things for my family. If it's not modern enough, they can go to IKEA.
I would much rather have a face frame than a laminate on the edge like that. Laminate is durable enough I guess until you get it wet. I've also seen laminate edges just start to peel, and once they do they just peel right off and the result isn't pretty.
Good video. Except, your examples of stiles/rails is incorrect. The stiles should be cut full height of cabinet with rails in between. Only end grain is on top and bottom of stiles. Hidden by floor/toe kick, ceiling or counter top. Rail end grain on the side of a cabinet/face frame is a rookie DIY move. Okay on shop cabinets I guess but still. If you’re going to make an educational video so to speak, make sure you know 💯 what you’re talking about. Great content though sorry for the rant. Lol
You routinely offer explanations to elevate our DIY carpentry and do so in a simple enough way to encourage us to take our craft to the next level. I've heard an expression - A good pilot is always learning - and I think I could amend that to say - a good DIYer is always learning. Thanks for sharing.
Honestly, as a teacher for 18 years, I really enjoy your videos because you're a natural at creating lessons with your content. Instead of DIYer, I'd say that we're your apprentices!
This is exactly why I'm subscribed to this channel! I just built two small 7" base cabinets and a large 30" wide wall cabinet for the first time. When I assembled the carcass w plywood, I was afraid they would turn out flimsy since the plywood was a little bowed. After I built the face frame it became much more sturdy and it actually looked good for my first cabinets!
I primarily do automotive and I’ve never been particularly good or drawn to woodworking. What gets me going, his knowledge, and you just increased my body of knowledge. We all have our skill sets, and you just increased mine, perhaps to the point where I will be doing some minor carpentry projects around the house. Keep up the good work and always enjoy watching your videos
Nice I never considered using face frames pieces to make my wood DIY projects look more professional & reinforce them. Since I'm more of a Functionality over Style type of DIYer.🤔
One of my first large woodworking projects about 20 years ago was to build a book shelf on the front wall of a loft that went between knee walls and over a window. I was going for a rustic look.. I took 2x6's, ripped them to have a nice square edge (This is before I got my jointer), glued them up and built a VERY heavy book case about 15' wide by 7' tall and matched the roof angle with the different levels of the book case. No face frame need since the face was already 1.5" side. Thing is still there, still looks great.. Holds a LOT of heavy books and doesn't sag. My later projects absolutely incorporated face frames or nice routed edges.
Thank you for a good explanation of the face frame. I see them used more often in work from America than from Europe. Personally I prefer the "modern" look with exposed edges, if you have good plywood it can be quite a good looking detail. But it can be a pain to get it pretty. It can be smart to offset some components, like for instance shelves, so they sit a little further in. So much easier than to make everything flush.
I think old finish carpentry adage ‘don’t expose end grain’ forces one to all these solutions, face frame or laminates. Finish carpentry means painted surfaces, frequent hand holds, exposure to moisture. End grain is not durable under these conditions
Very true, Falstaff. End grain and unfinished edges are things that have to be thought about on EVERY project. Some woodworking techniques to conceal them get extremely complex.
Pocket hole screws are for hacks, not real carpenters. Cabinet frames build before pocket hole screw systems existed will look better and lass long after the pocket hole screw frames have fallen apart.
Guilty of using almost exclusively the Euro look (no face frames). A lot of good points made in the video. As for exposed edges - I've used green bucket drywall and 'hot' mud in the past. Also, Bondo works quite well. All when painting. Love to have the pocketbook for ApplePly for exposed edge, unpainted pieces. I guess Baltic birch will have to do for now.
I just want to thank you for making these videos. I've been going to a vocational school since September of last year. Covid really impacted my ability to learn new skills in carpentry since 3/5 days of the week were online. I've learned a lot from you. I will continue to come back here even after vocational school to learn from you. You're an amazing teacher! the best part is you do all of this for no cost which is very helpful!
Great video. To expand on face frame, stiles are the outside vertical pieces. Stiles always run top to bottom. Rails are the horizontal pieces, they run between the stiles concealing end grain. And where possible, flush sucks.
Thanks for video. Several years ago I built some office desk and entertainment center cabinets out of pine from lowes. I face trimmed the assemblies with some ripped up red cedar I purchased on a luck find. Sanding it all down with the belt sander and then fine sanding produces a beautiful product and the different colored wood added a nice touch. Still enjoying these today.
I love how much information you, as a pro, put out there for the, generally speaking, less knowledgeable DIYers. You put a lot of great information out there for free. It is absolutely amazing. I learned so much just watching your videos. Thank you, so much, for all the valuable content you provide. It is truly appreciated. Especially by the "weekend DIYers that have no time during the week to do any wood working due to their normal 9-(5/6/7) office job (that sucks ass, but that's a different topic)."
Another great instructional video. Thank you for sharing. I am new to woodworking, and I want to experiment with and without face frames. Without, I would likely use for painted projects where I can fill and sand the exposed edges. THANK YOU!
I've done both. I agree, I tend to use narrow face frames. On fancy stuff, I'll use maple plywood and a black walnut face frame and it's of course gorgeous to look at :)
Ethan, I’ve always enjoyed your videos. Thank you for making and posting them. I always make face frames on my projects and I have a corner cabinet I’ve made for my shop that has puzzled me for months now on how to make a frame for this cabinet.
I’m building built-in book shelves in a 138 year old Queen Ann style home in western Kentucky. Thanks for the face frame video. I had planned to use face frames, but was intimidated. Now I am not.
The structural support offered by face frames (as you point out with the mini I-beam comment) also allows the use of thinner plywood, as you highlighted in another of your excellent videos. Thanks for sharing.
Hiya, great video as per usual. Thank you for igniting a love of carpentry within me and inspiring me to pursue the beginning of my humble (shed) workshop. Quick question. Can you face frame mdf shelving?
My boss, a contractor, recently asked me to construct some cabinet shelving for a few closets. Three duplexes in total. So, six of them in total. I made them out of baltic birch. Each 16" wide and 5'6" tall and 18" deep. No face frames. I was so embarrassed to put out a product like that. NO FACE FRAMES! I think they looked like a high schooler made them. Forty years of experience and I am forced to make shit like a schoolboy. Time to retire. I guess they looked OK though. They all sold before completion. But, still. No face frames? He likes the look of the layers of plywood. I hope other people do. I don't.
Furniture build this way is incredibly heavy, I like to use a frame design with thin plywood about 4mm or 6mm plywood. I also like to make cut outs, simple holes with the forstner drill just like in aviation design, you strength weakens by about 10% but your weight goes down 50% or so. I hate this heavy furniture, can´t easily move it around when you vacuum or move places, I really hate it.
You need to add one more thing. At least I find it invaluable. If it's not just freshly cut, sand the edge of the plywood to reveal CLEAN wood before gluing. Great video however! Thanks
I think the You Tube algorithm read my mind. I was just thinking, why do my projects look like 9th grade woodshop projects (and not a good one!). I struggle to make edge banding look any better. I will definitely give this a try. I noticed that the Bourbon Moth Woodworking guy always has a face frame and I wondered about that. Thanks!!!
Nice video, very informative, especially for beginners like myself. I would say though, frameless cabinets are (certainly in my experience here in the UK) very common, even in expensive fitted kitchen cabinets, with full overlay cabinet doors, and edge banding on the carcass edges.
When putting together a face frame what is the usual width of the wood used? I know 3/4" is a good thickness but is 3/4" also used as a face frame. I'm going to guess that 1 1/2"- 2" is a common width of the face frame. What's the width most commonly used?
Thank you again mister honest carpenter. Very easy and useful tip especially for those wanting to renovate their kitchen cabinets. I really want to reach out to you and learn from you, being a starting TH-camr in the DIY tips niche. Thanks again for your channel.
My first job as an apprentice joiner was in the faceframe section. We'd make 8' wide frames and pass them through a wide belt sander , twice Lots of fun in 36°C heat under a tin roof. Hmm 1977 'twas
Thanks for the video shows, but here in California, carpentry is now a pipe dream, lumber is gone back up so much that now plywood and dimensional lumber is around $100 or more !!!
I get that you have to play the game, but I'd really prefer it if you could not play the pronoun game for a full minute before naming the topic (which is face frames). I completely agree with how game changing it is, but I feel like it wastes peoples' time, especially if they've already come across it. Heck, I've read a couple carpentry and cabinet making books, and I'll still stick around.
Building furiture is all about hiding unsightly joins. When you make a box there's an order of construction that every cabinet maker follows. I once built a bar top using MDF. I first lipped the edges with Walnut about half an inch thick, then veneered the surfaces. You end up with what looks like a solid slab of walnut 15 ft long at a fraction of the price. This is why veneers were invented. I don't understand why people insist on spending a fortune on solid wood when you have stability issues and you can't tell anyway.
I like the idea of putting an edging piece on each exposed plywood edge. I'm at a loss as to what type of timber I should use when edging birch 18mm ply, which is not being painted. Thank you for your informative videos. They are great. From the UK.
Hi, I just got some small mdf sheets very cheap, some of which are going to be turned into cabinets with the thickness only being 7mm I'll most definitely be using a face frame as well as shims inside. On my other project I'm using plywood but I'll be ironing on trim prior to painting, some use filler but I can't be asked. Great vid for explaining to newbies and older diyers.
From one carpenter to another, you put that together wrong. Your rail gets trapped between the stiles. Not good to mix them. Just like hand tools, you want to stick to one brand so you don't have twenty different batteries. All Dewalt, or all Makita, etc... One or two specialty tools is the exception. Keep up the good work.
You do a vey nice job explaining the nuances of carpentry. Most DIY, woodworking etc. sties never get this granular. Thanks for all of the GREAT content you produce. 👍🇺🇸
Prefer frameless ... if done well, it is the epitome of the clean, modern look of Mid Century ... Build the carcass with solid wood instead of plywood .... or use plywoods with edge treatments to hide the plies... I find the face frame look too old fashioned as are shaker cabinet doors ... however, there is a place for Face Framed cabinets, etc. but it needs to be part of the overall design aesthetics of the house.
Just discovered your you tube videos. Been watching for a few weeks. You cover topics that most of us don't think about, but they are topics that really help hoan our skills. Thanks a bunch!!
I cut a face frame today out of birch ply and I now have a plunge saw I thought this would be straight... Nope it seems my rip cuts went all askew. Maybe I should have cut the rails as one piece instead of cutting the face frame as if I had just cut a hole out of the sheet I am a little disappointed because I keep making mistakes and I feel like I'm on a knife edge of ruining my project which isn't exactly plum or square, I have to work around it.
I just finished my movie cabinet 5' x 3'x4' I have a lot of movies. I didnt use face frames. But when I went to attach my doors I was like something is missing ? I went and looked at my kitchen cabinets and in saw it. Now I understand it. I have some future cabinet to make I'm use them on some and not on others thanks for explaining this.
I’ve seen some guys from Australia using face frames but they have a 45 on the face and the frame as well… looks really really good nothing like we do here… guess they got it from the English joinery guys 👍👍👍
I don't really like the look of face frames, it makes the furniture look outdated. What i use is body filler on exposed wood edge. Sand and apply wood putty to make it seamless. Lots of hardwork and waiting but i like the clean look of it.
. . . . but, I noticed in your comparison picture of the shelf unit and some other stills the face frames are made of ply thereby creating more end grain that shows. So is my sleeping pill making me extra stupid tonight and causing me to miss the obvious?
I like the modern European look of faceless cabinetry, so I am more inclined to use edge banding.
Great book for a beginner . th-cam.com/users/postUgkxD-QRFQz730FJEh4f9BYSf-nkIMIC9hL_ this book really starts from the beginning, as in it explains what basic tools are and how to use them. But when it gets to the art of creating joints and how and when to use them this book really starts to teach you something. At least that was my experience.
I am glad you simplified the process. Thanks
I've done both. I agree, I tend to use narrow face frames
Great video Ethan, you explained things clearly and don't rush , always my go to channel for when I need to know anything about wood work. Keep up the good work mate. 🇬🇧
Great discription and advice, I will certainly be using space frames on my next project.
It depends on the application whether I like the face frame or not.
In the kitchen face frames all the way. In the garage, I'm not so picky.
Depends if your going for the traditional or modern look. Here in the UK (in my experience) face frames are not so common.
In the past, when installing fitted shelves made from fair faced plywood (usually redwood), I have often used narrow architrave (usually whitewood) on the front to conceal the exposed ply edges. It can be flush with the level of the shelf or maybe just a little higher to create a bit of a lip at the front of the shelf - both work well. The contrasting colours make no excuse of what is going on and they marry up well. The Architrave helps to keep the shelves straight and support any load that will be placed upon them. The effect works very well when you are fitting shelves in alcoves on both sides of a central fire breast. Remember to start with a large shelf opening at floor level (20" to 24") and gradually reduce them as they go up towards the ceiling (12" to 10"); I would recommend 20" at the bottom and 12" at the top - anything below 10" at the top would not look good.
You are extremely good at your craft as well as explaining the details related to same. That capacity to transfer knowledge is another gift. How talented! 🪚🔨📐
Thank you, chelin! 😄
Superb
Thanks.
I did a face frame on my kitchen closet but put the face under the shelf instead of attached to the front. If it is on the front, only the fasteners are holding the shelf from bowing downwards under the weight, vs. the edge of the face. In addition, of course, the shelves are tied into the back wall and side walls. That's a long run of shelf, 3 feet. But oh, my god is that solid. It has zero deflection under heavy loads of canned goods and other things.
I like it. Appreciate the heads up.
I've done both for different applications
Good information, thanks
Grea video. Thanks for sharing.
For some shop furniture I've done sold wood edge banding (3/16" to 1/4" thick), but will be doing face frames for a nicer sports locker style shelving unit in my garage. Great video!
Came for the tips and am just staring at the background. Your shop is gorgeous!
Thank you, Jamtron!
very helpful just what I needed.
Personally, I'm using glue-on edge banding. But, another way is to use 1/2"-3/4" trim that is then attached to those ugly edges. There are several router bits available that allow you to create complimentary faces in the carcass faces and the trim. These look just as good, or better.
Don't forget about pin nailers. 23 gauge headless pins are nearly invisible.
Face frames please! Finished look. Thank you!
Thank you.... as a new DiYer, im trying to tackle new shop cabinets, iv done the caucus, was trying to install the hinges n all, but everything just looked off, then saw some videos with this face trim thing.... how much is the standard overlap? 1-3cm? They done interfere with drawer slides and hinges right?
99% of videos that claim "this little secret will change how you work!" are just clickbait, this video really was a game changer for this DIY novice, and I'm so appreciative of this man's channel!
I'm just moving into a new house, that is pretty much stuck in the 70's in terms of decor. A lot of the cupboard doors are uneven and run into each other after years of sagging. This made me think that it could be easy to put face frames on the front of the cabinets as a quick method to make things look better in the short term, and have a better surface to mount different cupboard doors to. Not a complete remodeling, but something to make the look a little fresher.
I was waiting for your video to drop, today a bit later than usual but not an issue
I appreciate you waiting, Richie! TH-cam more or less told me it’s better to post them at 5 😅
i’m in a opposite situation ; a kitchen full of cheap looking builder grade a cabinets all face framed that look dated. To modernize the look i want to reface them with glossy slab doors. i have been trying to find out if i need to remove the frames first in order for the doors to go edge to edge (ie no frame showing behind the door) ?? advice?
Annnnnd subscribed!
😁
I prefer face frames because I'm old.
Do you sell them Honest Carpenter t shirts?
Always free floating face frames, always pocket screws, always stain rather than paint for me. But I just make things for my family. If it's not modern enough, they can go to IKEA.
👊
Nice to know, but not going to use it. I like old baroque furniture... 😃
👍🏻
I would much rather have a face frame than a laminate on the edge like that. Laminate is durable enough I guess until you get it wet. I've also seen laminate edges just start to peel, and once they do they just peel right off and the result isn't pretty.
Good video. Except, your examples of stiles/rails is incorrect. The stiles should be cut full height of cabinet with rails in between. Only end grain is on top and bottom of stiles. Hidden by floor/toe kick, ceiling or counter top. Rail end grain on the side of a cabinet/face frame is a rookie DIY move. Okay on shop cabinets I guess but still. If you’re going to make an educational video so to speak, make sure you know 💯 what you’re talking about. Great content though sorry for the rant. Lol
"... sort of a free floating picture frame." That about nails it No pun intended. Well, maybe.😶
😁
Nails exposed are horrible to see. They give a cheap look anyway :P
Still agree that masking plywood gives a better finish look.
called stiles
And rails.🙂
I just assumed everyone knows this.....
You routinely offer explanations to elevate our DIY carpentry and do so in a simple enough way to encourage us to take our craft to the next level. I've heard an expression - A good pilot is always learning - and I think I could amend that to say - a good DIYer is always learning. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you, nw! I’m still learning as well 😄
Honestly, as a teacher for 18 years, I really enjoy your videos because you're a natural at creating lessons with your content. Instead of DIYer, I'd say that we're your apprentices!
He explains it so well on top of that and simple. It's easy to follow.
This is exactly why I'm subscribed to this channel! I just built two small 7" base cabinets and a large 30" wide wall cabinet for the first time. When I assembled the carcass w plywood, I was afraid they would turn out flimsy since the plywood was a little bowed. After I built the face frame it became much more sturdy and it actually looked good for my first cabinets!
I made a set of side tables decades ago that have raw edges. While I was proud of them back then, they look "unfinished" to me now.
Get a lobotomy
I primarily do automotive and I’ve never been particularly good or drawn to woodworking. What gets me going, his knowledge, and you just increased my body of knowledge. We all have our skill sets, and you just increased mine, perhaps to the point where I will be doing some minor carpentry projects around the house. Keep up the good work and always enjoy watching your videos
Bingo
You can never have too much experience and know how
Nice I never considered using face frames pieces to make my wood DIY projects look more professional & reinforce them. Since I'm more of a Functionality over Style type of DIYer.🤔
I’ve made plenty of projects without them too, W! 😄
Face frames! They’re a game changer and a must do as they give a professional look and add strength. 👍🏼
One of my first large woodworking projects about 20 years ago was to build a book shelf on the front wall of a loft that went between knee walls and over a window. I was going for a rustic look.. I took 2x6's, ripped them to have a nice square edge (This is before I got my jointer), glued them up and built a VERY heavy book case about 15' wide by 7' tall and matched the roof angle with the different levels of the book case. No face frame need since the face was already 1.5" side. Thing is still there, still looks great.. Holds a LOT of heavy books and doesn't sag. My later projects absolutely incorporated face frames or nice routed edges.
Thank you for a good explanation of the face frame. I see them used more often in work from America than from Europe. Personally I prefer the "modern" look with exposed edges, if you have good plywood it can be quite a good looking detail. But it can be a pain to get it pretty. It can be smart to offset some components, like for instance shelves, so they sit a little further in. So much easier than to make everything flush.
I think old finish carpentry adage ‘don’t expose end grain’ forces one to all these solutions, face frame or laminates. Finish carpentry means painted surfaces, frequent hand holds, exposure to moisture. End grain is not durable under these conditions
Very true, Falstaff. End grain and unfinished edges are things that have to be thought about on EVERY project. Some woodworking techniques to conceal them get extremely complex.
@@TheHonestCarpenter Great work on your videos.
don't forget the 'old finish carpentry' solution: make your panels instead of using sheet goods.
Pocket hole screws are for hacks, not real carpenters. Cabinet frames build before pocket hole screw systems existed will look better and lass long after the pocket hole screw frames have fallen apart.
thanks for leaving out your F-word
Guilty of using almost exclusively the Euro look (no face frames). A lot of good points made in the video. As for exposed edges - I've used green bucket drywall and 'hot' mud in the past. Also, Bondo works quite well. All when painting. Love to have the pocketbook for ApplePly for exposed edge, unpainted pieces. I guess Baltic birch will have to do for now.
I just want to thank you for making these videos. I've been going to a vocational school since September of last year. Covid really impacted my ability to learn new skills in carpentry since 3/5 days of the week were online. I've learned a lot from you. I will continue to come back here even after vocational school to learn from you. You're an amazing teacher! the best part is you do all of this for no cost which is very helpful!
Thank you, Centrax! I’m really glad the vids are helpful-and glad to hear your in voc school! We need more folks taking your path 🙂
Great video. To expand on face frame, stiles are the outside vertical pieces. Stiles always run top to bottom. Rails are the horizontal pieces, they run between the stiles concealing end grain. And where possible, flush sucks.
Thanks for video. Several years ago I built some office desk and entertainment center cabinets out of pine from lowes. I face trimmed the assemblies with some ripped up red cedar I purchased on a luck find. Sanding it all down with the belt sander and then fine sanding produces a beautiful product and the different colored wood added a nice touch. Still enjoying these today.
I love how much information you, as a pro, put out there for the, generally speaking, less knowledgeable DIYers. You put a lot of great information out there for free. It is absolutely amazing. I learned so much just watching your videos. Thank you, so much, for all the valuable content you provide. It is truly appreciated. Especially by the "weekend DIYers that have no time during the week to do any wood working due to their normal 9-(5/6/7) office job (that sucks ass, but that's a different topic)."
Another great instructional video. Thank you for sharing. I am new to woodworking, and I want to experiment with and without face frames. Without, I would likely use for painted projects where I can fill and sand the exposed edges. THANK YOU!
I prefer the modern look, but everything you've said makes sense and I'll keep that in mind. It's a great concept.
I've done both. I agree, I tend to use narrow face frames. On fancy stuff, I'll use maple plywood and a black walnut face frame and it's of course gorgeous to look at :)
That's gotta be a good look.
I m old fashionned ,always go with face frame ..Gives them special look and touch ..
Ethan, I’ve always enjoyed your videos. Thank you for making and posting them. I always make face frames on my projects and I have a corner cabinet I’ve made for my shop that has puzzled me for months now on how to make a frame for this cabinet.
I’m building built-in book shelves in a 138 year old Queen Ann style home in western Kentucky. Thanks for the face frame video. I had planned to use face frames, but was intimidated. Now I am not.
The structural support offered by face frames (as you point out with the mini I-beam comment) also allows the use of thinner plywood, as you highlighted in another of your excellent videos. Thanks for sharing.
Hiya, great video as per usual.
Thank you for igniting a love of carpentry within me and inspiring me to pursue the beginning of my humble (shed) workshop.
Quick question. Can you face frame mdf shelving?
didnt know it, love it, will use it on next project! Thanks for cutting trough the bs an giving us the honest rundown. Keep em coming!
Another good and to-the-point video. Thanks! Off to check your Amazon store! ... ANd... I couldn't find it! :-( Please post a link.
My boss, a contractor, recently asked me to construct some cabinet shelving for a few closets. Three duplexes in total. So, six of them in total. I made them out of baltic birch. Each 16" wide and 5'6" tall and 18" deep. No face frames. I was so embarrassed to put out a product like that. NO FACE FRAMES! I think they looked like a high schooler made them. Forty years of experience and I am forced to make shit like a schoolboy. Time to retire. I guess they looked OK though. They all sold before completion. But, still. No face frames? He likes the look of the layers of plywood. I hope other people do. I don't.
Furniture build this way is incredibly heavy, I like to use a frame design with thin plywood about 4mm or 6mm plywood. I also like to make cut outs, simple holes with the forstner drill just like in aviation design, you strength weakens by about 10% but your weight goes down 50% or so. I hate this heavy furniture, can´t easily move it around when you vacuum or move places, I really hate it.
You need to add one more thing. At least I find it invaluable. If it's not just freshly cut, sand the edge of the plywood to reveal CLEAN wood before gluing. Great video however! Thanks
I think the You Tube algorithm read my mind. I was just thinking, why do my projects look like 9th grade woodshop projects (and not a good one!). I struggle to make edge banding look any better. I will definitely give this a try. I noticed that the Bourbon Moth Woodworking guy always has a face frame and I wondered about that. Thanks!!!
Nice video, very informative, especially for beginners like myself. I would say though, frameless cabinets are (certainly in my experience here in the UK) very common, even in expensive fitted kitchen cabinets, with full overlay cabinet doors, and edge banding on the carcass edges.
That intro had me guessing-Unicorn love ! Face frames .. 🤷🏼♂️
When putting together a face frame what is the usual width of the wood used? I know 3/4" is a good thickness but is 3/4" also used as a face frame. I'm going to guess that 1 1/2"- 2" is a common width of the face frame. What's the width most commonly used?
Thank you again mister honest carpenter. Very easy and useful tip especially for those wanting to renovate their kitchen cabinets. I really want to reach out to you and learn from you, being a starting TH-camr in the DIY tips niche. Thanks again for your channel.
I was thinking that adding face frames could also improve the look of cheap IKEA or generic MDF bookshelves.
It is just a way to camouflage the way that you are using cheap wood and ask big bucks from the client 😖😖😖😖😖😖😖😖
My first job as an apprentice joiner was in the faceframe section.
We'd make 8' wide frames and pass them through a wide belt sander , twice
Lots of fun in 36°C heat under a tin roof. Hmm 1977 'twas
Another awesome awesome video that makes me understand why my little carpentry work I do - turned out to look sooo amateur like.
love your channel!!
Thanks for the video shows, but here in California, carpentry is now a pipe dream, lumber is gone back up so much that now plywood and dimensional lumber is around $100 or more !!!
Love this info, I want to build my own book shelf next to my fireplace with doors. Somewhat modern!
I get that you have to play the game, but I'd really prefer it if you could not play the pronoun game for a full minute before naming the topic (which is face frames).
I completely agree with how game changing it is, but I feel like it wastes peoples' time, especially if they've already come across it.
Heck, I've read a couple carpentry and cabinet making books, and I'll still stick around.
Building furiture is all about hiding unsightly joins. When you make a box there's an order of construction that every cabinet maker follows. I once built a bar top using MDF. I first lipped the edges with Walnut about half an inch thick, then veneered the surfaces. You end up with what looks like a solid slab of walnut 15 ft long at a fraction of the price. This is why veneers were invented. I don't understand why people insist on spending a fortune on solid wood when you have stability issues and you can't tell anyway.
I like the idea of putting an edging piece on each exposed plywood edge. I'm at a loss as to what type of timber I should use when edging birch 18mm ply, which is not being painted. Thank you for your informative videos. They are great. From the UK.
Thanks for explaining all this. Extremely useful!!!
Hi, I just got some small mdf sheets very cheap, some of which are going to be turned into cabinets with the thickness only being 7mm I'll most definitely be using a face frame as well as shims inside. On my other project I'm using plywood but I'll be ironing on trim prior to painting, some use filler but I can't be asked. Great vid for explaining to newbies and older diyers.
From one carpenter to another, you put that together wrong.
Your rail gets trapped between the stiles. Not good to mix them.
Just like hand tools, you want to stick to one brand so you don't have twenty different batteries. All Dewalt, or all Makita, etc... One or two specialty tools is the exception.
Keep up the good work.
You do a vey nice job explaining the nuances of carpentry. Most DIY, woodworking etc. sties never get this granular. Thanks for all of the GREAT content you produce. 👍🇺🇸
You’re welcome, thanks for watching Doug!
Prefer frameless ... if done well, it is the epitome of the clean, modern look of Mid Century ...
Build the carcass with solid wood instead of plywood .... or use plywoods with edge treatments to hide the plies...
I find the face frame look too old fashioned as are shaker cabinet doors ... however, there is a place for Face Framed cabinets, etc. but it needs to be part of the overall design aesthetics of the house.
Just discovered your you tube videos. Been watching for a few weeks. You cover topics that most of us don't think about, but they are topics that really help hoan our skills. Thanks a bunch!!
I cut a face frame today out of birch ply and I now have a plunge saw I thought this would be straight... Nope it seems my rip cuts went all askew. Maybe I should have cut the rails as one piece instead of cutting the face frame as if I had just cut a hole out of the sheet
I am a little disappointed because I keep making mistakes and I feel like I'm on a knife edge of ruining my project which isn't exactly plum or square, I have to work around it.
I just finished my movie cabinet 5' x 3'x4' I have a lot of movies. I didnt use face frames. But when I went to attach my doors I was like something is missing ? I went and looked at my kitchen cabinets and in saw it. Now I understand it. I have some future cabinet to make I'm use them on some and not on others thanks for explaining this.
I’ve seen some guys from Australia using face frames but they have a 45 on the face and the frame as well… looks really really good nothing like we do here… guess they got it from the English joinery guys 👍👍👍
Wot a video Ethan (is that correct?) I love both looks but will use face frames now as they work so damn well!
Bob
England
I don't really like the look of face frames, it makes the furniture look outdated. What i use is body filler on exposed wood edge. Sand and apply wood putty to make it seamless. Lots of hardwork and waiting but i like the clean look of it.
I always learn something helpful when watching your videos. Thank you!
Thanks Pattie!
. . . . but, I noticed in your comparison picture of the shelf unit and some other stills the face frames are made of ply thereby creating more end grain that shows.
So is my sleeping pill making me extra stupid tonight and causing me to miss the obvious?
I prefer this very professional thanks!👏💪❤️👍🤩
Ethan, your advice rocks. If you want a gig in Tucson I would love to provide that opportunity.
I just started woodworking and I suck, lol. I purchased some plywood but need help with the chipped edges, not sure how to get rid of them.
Great informational video. Thank you!!!❤
Ethan,
I have an Amazon Prime Account. Can I still buy the tools you use that I need ?.