I only watched Plat Chat before this episode. I always felt like there was a bit of bias towards Korean players and teams. This showed even more then I thought.
glad that all the beef was still light hearted, If i was gator im not emotionally mature enough to not take anything to heart and I woulda just ended up being sad or mad the whole podcast lol.
Aye, this was top notch. I appreciated the way Gator talked about Hawk. That guy has been so great for years and I wondered why he wasn't playing more. I wonder if the Korean players loosen up a little if they are around western players for a few years? Enjoying the channel, thanks for the pod.
I am really happy this came into my recommended, I will have to go back and watch previous episodes too, this was great. Also very eye opening. I feel really bad for Hawk, and it sounds like Gator was hardly the coach at all, and I don't mean that disrespectfully. His players dictated everything and were not really open to trying what he wanted to do in a lot of cases which we now know with hindsight probably would have been for the best. I had felt bad for Donghak previously too with the way the season ended but it sounds like we didn't know the half of it, on top of the insane pressure he was under through what was just visible to us he was getting beat down by his teamates, dragged down instead of built up by the veterans around him. Really sad and disappointing to hear. Thanks for sharing everybody.
Actually the best Uncoachable so far, Gator carried with "Korean's ruined Overwatch league" but to have that followed up by Gator, TFer and also Unter to a degree cooking with their vision of what OWL should have been was wonderful.
I think Gator needs to be reminded they dominated playing the same heroes due to meta being the absolute same. The second meta shifted a little they fumbled hard. BUT he was absolutely spitting in some stuff especially the tank comments also it's incredible to hear more insight about what really happened with team USA and Reign, Gator does recognize his mistakes but there isn't SO much he could've done without seeing the future lmao
Well then the issue might change. If gator says "fuck you, I'm the coach" and they end up losing a game, the players might turn around and say It's us vs them and we don't want to play with this coach anymore and now it's either you fire the whole team or the coach (often the coach). It's rare you want to override a majority decision like this because it won't always work and when it doesn't, your ass will be on the line, sadly (unless you have a goated reputation as a coach).
@zaku2939 i mean, isn't that one of the main jobs of a head coach. He talks about in-game leadership, but convincing the team of your methods is probably the most important part of being a head coach, no? Otherwise, none of your ideas will ever be executed properly.
Definitely baited by title, but im glad to know that having a mix team to bring out positives of both cultures is best. I see Dallas Fuel as the peak negative of western culture. they too boomed they were getting beat up. they just gave up and had no work ethic. Shock is definitely the best example and now makes sense they were 2 time champion. The synergy with tanks super, choi and smurf. And as Gator said the best backline moth and violet. Considering that tank and support are definitely the glue of the team as well. Of course its important to note that while cultures do affect people's upbringing, a person is still an individual with other things in their lives affecting them; most of all freedom of choice. Aka dont prejudge and be racist.
I don’t think Gator is the most eloquent or expressive person. But several things he said were right on the money. He said that after ATL won the midseason madness, he didn’t see excitement from the team, only relief. That’s so heartbreakingly accurate. I feel bad for these great players because they don’t seem to enjoy esports the way they could have! Come on, guys, you are the champions!
sparkle is known to bring players out of their shells and integrate them into the team. players leave his team and talk about how playing with him was like playing with family
As a western fan, I agree that oversaturation with Korean talent, diluted the enjoyment and interest I took in following OWL teams. Personality is a huge factor, and I always prefer to see matchups knowing the talent on the team, is FROM the region they represent. American and European teams running fully Korean transplanted rosters made rooting for regional or city teams a pointless joke. Atlanta was always fun to watch because of the personality of their players like Gator, or Babybay way back when. Same with Shock. Blizzard wouldn't let gamers just be gamers, they had to corporatize everything and neuter all the fun out of videogames.
Just watch how much Heesang hated proper. I had sources of proper bullying people since ProAm. He flamed the shit out of Heesang when missed shots after shots on mcree
If the game has tournaments like RL trust me the game will get bigger and better then letting unknown guy/girl pick the players for team , and the fact you cant pick one Koren to play with another US player because the language barrier and you have to pick a full team with a Koren make it worst and not fair to another regions , like for example no one want to pick player's from eu because the languages and the doubt that they can compete, ( RL system will make a fair chance for every each region) also to be clear i dont say Korean players are bad no ar all they are good but no fair for another regions . Thanks for reading ❤.
Gator literally said the language barrier wasn't an issue though. The issue was more cultural. Korea has a hyper competitive culture that induces perfection and self criticism. To put it in perspective, getting into high school and college in Korea requires far more studying and effort than getting into an Ivy League as an American. There's a saying in Korea, "If you sleep three hours each night, you may get into a top 'SKY university' (Seoul National University, Korea University, and Yonsei University). If you sleep four hours each night, you may get into another university. If you sleep five or more hours each night, especially in your last year of high school, forget about getting into any university." That is why they're so hard on themselves and their team. They grew up in a hyper competitive culture where you devote 110% to be the best or you're nothing. As a coach, Gator has to recognize this and mediate the team. It's every coach's job, esports or sports, to identify issues within the team and help guide and develop them. Failure to integrate Hawk is unfortunately on Gator, and I greatly respect him for admitting it.
I remember when Jake was rly pushing for a players union in the 1st season that could have helped solve some of the problems talked about in the podcast. But the whole concept must have been too foreign for the Korean players to understand
Gator is leaving out why he got hate after challenging Hadi to the Rein mirror. Because when Hadi started clapping him, he swapped instead of committing to it, even though he was the one who wanted it. Makes you wonder how many relevant details Gator leaves out of other stories
Yeah man SWAPPING a hero mid map after saying he would mirror TOTALY deserved him the hate he got. BTW he literally went back to mirroring rein on map 5
Depends what you mean by "the hate he got". AFAIK all it was, was a bunch of banter on Reddit. And it was absolutely deserved. If you say otherwise then you're taking shit way too serious.@@baaz0o
@@libertyprime9307 it was multiple reddit threads dedicated to calling him a fraud all because he lost a rein mirror vs london after asking for a mirror bro
Oh heavens no, they called him a fraud, how horrible. It's almost as though that's a goofy meme and not meant to be taken seriously. Ever heard of Fraudper?@@baaz0o
@@myskiboy7073 Let me present you the Shy Hitscan. Edit: Also, don't get me wrong. I know Hawk's OT is fine. Still, didn't win even 1 match on circuit.
Its not where they sleep youre comparing much more sparesly populated north england to LA a city ran into the ground and has only been controlled my democrats for its entire existence 😊
In short according to Gator, although Team USA/Atlanta Reign lost, they are still the better teams and their opponents are just lucky, or the "Korean" players are the reasons they lost. He can't even take the L respectfully lol
He’s literally said that it was his fault to not integrate hawk more and that the Korean culture was just another factor to the loss just as his own shortcomings were. Also with team USA, his main thing was that the team didn’t comm and take risks on match day; none of it was about the enemy team being lucky. He even slightly joked that ksa has better coaching, but there was obvious truth in his own statement there too. I think you’re only focusing on aspects that reinforce your preconceived biases, bud…
Team Korea lost in one of the closest series in WC history against the only team which matched them in the dive across all roles. It isn't a mark against them at all.
Wow, didn't expect this to get so racist. Honestly disappointed in the direction the league has gone. Gator's willingness to blame "Korean culture" on his team's failures demonstrates the bigotry that this league has fostered for seasons. Real shame.
Thanks to Gator for being so candid. It adds so much to the scene to have stuff like this.
This episode needs to be viewed by all of plat chat and the viewers too. This is insane
I only watched Plat Chat before this episode. I always felt like there was a bit of bias towards Korean players and teams. This showed even more then I thought.
The start with Unter vs Gator and Commander and Christ just ooooing like listening to rap duel was peak content.
God tier podcast, could have used content like this YEARS ago. Great work CommanderX and crew
Just realised this is the first sign of Unter fucking hating on Mag 47:45
glad that all the beef was still light hearted, If i was gator im not emotionally mature enough to not take anything to heart and I woulda just ended up being sad or mad the whole podcast lol.
Aye, this was top notch. I appreciated the way Gator talked about Hawk. That guy has been so great for years and I wondered why he wasn't playing more.
I wonder if the Korean players loosen up a little if they are around western players for a few years?
Enjoying the channel, thanks for the pod.
It seemed Smurf did... Violet didnt tho xd
I am really happy this came into my recommended, I will have to go back and watch previous episodes too, this was great. Also very eye opening. I feel really bad for Hawk, and it sounds like Gator was hardly the coach at all, and I don't mean that disrespectfully. His players dictated everything and were not really open to trying what he wanted to do in a lot of cases which we now know with hindsight probably would have been for the best. I had felt bad for Donghak previously too with the way the season ended but it sounds like we didn't know the half of it, on top of the insane pressure he was under through what was just visible to us he was getting beat down by his teamates, dragged down instead of built up by the veterans around him. Really sad and disappointing to hear. Thanks for sharing everybody.
So thats a coach issue... if he doesnt have the respect then its coaches fault.
Actually the best Uncoachable so far, Gator carried with "Korean's ruined Overwatch league" but to have that followed up by Gator, TFer and also Unter to a degree cooking with their vision of what OWL should have been was wonderful.
I think Gator needs to be reminded they dominated playing the same heroes due to meta being the absolute same. The second meta shifted a little they fumbled hard. BUT he was absolutely spitting in some stuff especially the tank comments also it's incredible to hear more insight about what really happened with team USA and Reign, Gator does recognize his mistakes but there isn't SO much he could've done without seeing the future lmao
this episode has some juice holy
Gator seems like a really good assistant coach ngl. Most of these issues seem to be him not being able to stand by his own convictions.
Well then the issue might change. If gator says "fuck you, I'm the coach" and they end up losing a game, the players might turn around and say It's us vs them and we don't want to play with this coach anymore and now it's either you fire the whole team or the coach (often the coach). It's rare you want to override a majority decision like this because it won't always work and when it doesn't, your ass will be on the line, sadly (unless you have a goated reputation as a coach).
@zaku2939 i mean, isn't that one of the main jobs of a head coach. He talks about in-game leadership, but convincing the team of your methods is probably the most important part of being a head coach, no? Otherwise, none of your ideas will ever be executed properly.
Boston stuff is crazy
I like this podcast a lot :)
1:40:24. Moth and Violet had underated syngergy, best support duo
Haven’t even watched yet, already intrigued.
Definitely baited by title, but im glad to know that having a mix team to bring out positives of both cultures is best. I see Dallas Fuel as the peak negative of western culture. they too boomed they were getting beat up. they just gave up and had no work ethic. Shock is definitely the best example and now makes sense they were 2 time champion. The synergy with tanks super, choi and smurf. And as Gator said the best backline moth and violet. Considering that tank and support are definitely the glue of the team as well.
Of course its important to note that while cultures do affect people's upbringing, a person is still an individual with other things in their lives affecting them; most of all freedom of choice. Aka dont prejudge and be racist.
I don’t think Gator is the most eloquent or expressive person. But several things he said were right on the money. He said that after ATL won the midseason madness, he didn’t see excitement from the team, only relief. That’s so heartbreakingly accurate. I feel bad for these great players because they don’t seem to enjoy esports the way they could have! Come on, guys, you are the champions!
Thank you for the content. This is the podcast the scene needed. Great conversation. Love myself some Gator
who's the greatest glue player then of all time, like the best mixer to help with korean teams
sparkle is known to bring players out of their shells and integrate them into the team. players leave his team and talk about how playing with him was like playing with family
Gotta be super
@dannyfz did u miss that they were talking specifically abt western players
Super, peak Shock was best because it was great mix
Rupal for FFlorida seemed like a great one this year
As a western fan, I agree that oversaturation with Korean talent, diluted the enjoyment and interest I took in following OWL teams. Personality is a huge factor, and I always prefer to see matchups knowing the talent on the team, is FROM the region they represent. American and European teams running fully Korean transplanted rosters made rooting for regional or city teams a pointless joke. Atlanta was always fun to watch because of the personality of their players like Gator, or Babybay way back when. Same with Shock. Blizzard wouldn't let gamers just be gamers, they had to corporatize everything and neuter all the fun out of videogames.
💩
This truly is peak Overwatch content, loving the work
Interesting, seems propers not the flower boy everyone thinks he is
Just watch how much Heesang hated proper. I had sources of proper bullying people since ProAm. He flamed the shit out of Heesang when missed shots after shots on mcree
@@danialturner6343same. I was so happy for Heesang that he was able to shine on the Titans
Rlly interested conversation lol
where is the part where they say that korea ruined overwatch league
1:32:35
If the game has tournaments like RL trust me the game will get bigger and better then letting unknown guy/girl pick the players for team , and the fact you cant pick one Koren to play with another US player because the language barrier and you have to pick a full team with a Koren make it worst and not fair to another regions , like for example no one want to pick player's from eu because the languages and the doubt that they can compete, ( RL system will make a fair chance for every each region) also to be clear i dont say Korean players are bad no ar all they are good but no fair for another regions . Thanks for reading ❤.
Gator literally said the language barrier wasn't an issue though. The issue was more cultural. Korea has a hyper competitive culture that induces perfection and self criticism. To put it in perspective, getting into high school and college in Korea requires far more studying and effort than getting into an Ivy League as an American. There's a saying in Korea, "If you sleep three hours each night, you may get into a top 'SKY university' (Seoul National University, Korea University, and Yonsei University). If you sleep four hours each night, you may get into another university. If you sleep five or more hours each night, especially in your last year of high school, forget about getting into any university."
That is why they're so hard on themselves and their team. They grew up in a hyper competitive culture where you devote 110% to be the best or you're nothing. As a coach, Gator has to recognize this and mediate the team. It's every coach's job, esports or sports, to identify issues within the team and help guide and develop them. Failure to integrate Hawk is unfortunately on Gator, and I greatly respect him for admitting it.
This is why I honestly think Reiner was THE MOST entertaining player in the last 2 years of owl
This is a deeply based podcast
Holy shit gator plz stop saying “I’m not joking”
are they saying "client of the week" award? im still confused as to what that is
A client is someone who paid to get their account boosted, client of the week is like the inverse of player of the week
Sorting comments by new on this video is crazy why did the gator episode attract so many schizophrenics
❤❤
I remember when Jake was rly pushing for a players union in the 1st season that could have helped solve some of the problems talked about in the podcast. But the whole concept must have been too foreign for the Korean players to understand
Man every time Unter opens his mouth it’s to take jabs at gator. I’m all for ball busting. But damn
Unter’s mic……. Wtf? Bro need to get some better 🎙️
One word.......Pine.
Proper sounds like deadly poison on the team…… so toxic
Gator is leaving out why he got hate after challenging Hadi to the Rein mirror. Because when Hadi started clapping him, he swapped instead of committing to it, even though he was the one who wanted it.
Makes you wonder how many relevant details Gator leaves out of other stories
Yeah man SWAPPING a hero mid map after saying he would mirror TOTALY deserved him the hate he got. BTW he literally went back to mirroring rein on map 5
Depends what you mean by "the hate he got". AFAIK all it was, was a bunch of banter on Reddit. And it was absolutely deserved. If you say otherwise then you're taking shit way too serious.@@baaz0o
@@libertyprime9307 it was multiple reddit threads dedicated to calling him a fraud all because he lost a rein mirror vs london after asking for a mirror bro
Oh heavens no, they called him a fraud, how horrible. It's almost as though that's a goofy meme and not meant to be taken seriously. Ever heard of Fraudper?@@baaz0o
@@baaz0o he is a fraud...
poor donghak :(
Circuit LOL, as if Atlanta 23 had won even 1 game with Hawk on circuit in the second half of the season
yeah Circuit against Hangzhou, force Guxue on a circuit tank which he cant play
are u ok
@@myskiboy7073who says Guxue can’t play sig? Also leave and shy double sniper very scary.
@@myskiboy7073 Let me present you the Shy Hitscan.
Edit: Also, don't get me wrong. I know Hawk's OT is fine. Still, didn't win even 1 match on circuit.
@@krystalhaug1957 guxue said he can't play sig
If you can't find mistakes in won fights you are a bad coach
Mistakes retired years ago so it's pretty hard to find him in those fights :))
The level of copium from gator is crazy. I think this season was karma for helping create goats
Its not where they sleep youre comparing much more sparesly populated north england to LA a city ran into the ground and has only been controlled my democrats for its entire existence 😊
In short according to Gator, although Team USA/Atlanta Reign lost, they are still the better teams and their opponents are just lucky, or the "Korean" players are the reasons they lost. He can't even take the L respectfully lol
He’s literally said that it was his fault to not integrate hawk more and that the Korean culture was just another factor to the loss just as his own shortcomings were.
Also with team USA, his main thing was that the team didn’t comm and take risks on match day; none of it was about the enemy team being lucky. He even slightly joked that ksa has better coaching, but there was obvious truth in his own statement there too.
I think you’re only focusing on aspects that reinforce your preconceived biases, bud…
I still cant believe he made the Defiant mid and Team Korea not place in the same year. He was literally the only constant!
Team Korea lost in one of the closest series in WC history against the only team which matched them in the dive across all roles. It isn't a mark against them at all.
I like how you couldn't have even watched the full video before posting this. People just wanna hate gator for the NFTs, no matter what.
@@maxromanowski6069 good
Homelessness is a huge problem, but stop associating homelessness with danger.
don't be delusional.
Wow, didn't expect this to get so racist. Honestly disappointed in the direction the league has gone. Gator's willingness to blame "Korean culture" on his team's failures demonstrates the bigotry that this league has fostered for seasons. Real shame.
Bro what? Dumbass comment. Watch the video bro
…… how is that racist…….
59:50
@@krystalhaug1957they're trolling, it's a good copy pasta though