This is a very good video with lots of excellent information on steps you can take to ensure your brass is as uniform as possible. One thing I would really like to have seen is a follow-up showing the internal case capacity, in H2O, of 5 to 10 pieces of each brand of brass, after firing. The initial case prep steps are really important, and can definitely reduce group sizes, but I have found that what you wind up with after your first firing tells you a lot more about what kind of accuracy you'll get on all subsequent firings. This is so true that I no longer do anything more than weight-sort and inspect brass before that first firing, knowing that I won't be narrowing down which pieces I reload with until after they've been fired.
Best info I've seen on TH-cam and internet. Exactly what I've found will all three types of brass. Well documented my info is just chicken scratch in a notebook. Will just add the Norma brass I tried was new and had split necks on first firing. Can't wait for your mandrel testing.
+Anthony Fanzo thanks for the compliment. It takes a lot of time to put this together. I hoped others would be as interested as I was to get it together.
If you want results sometimes you just have to pay................The US in WW2 increased its anti aircraft effectiveness 600% by installing a mini-vaccuum tube proximity fuse into its large caliber AA guns............it was expensive and difficult ( each fuse was hand made) but it got results. Thanks to the author of the video, it goes a long way to explain the difference in brands and what the extra $$$ goes towards.
243 brass first trimmed to 1.930, lightly lubed, then one pass through a lee sizer die and final trim to 1.910 using simple LEE trim kit and cordless drill. Works for me. Shoots 5 round groups using 140 gn Hornady ELD/ADI 2206H into a small pistol patch at 100 yards. Readily available Federal 243 once-fired brass at 20 cents each through my Remington 700-based, fluted barrel, MDT ESS chassised custom rifle. Got sick of trying to source factory 6.5 Creedmoor brass. Now shoot more often and more cheaply. You can also downsize more readily available, and therefore cheaper 308 cases, but it can take 4-5 incremental passes to achieve and possibly lose a case now and then when the shoulder collapses. Far easier to upsize the 243 to 264 and haven't lost a case yet. Twenty cents is bugger-all and I enjoy the prep. 243 for me.
+John Shusdock thanks. Your comments are appreciated. Be on the lookout for a follow up to this video soon. I have shot the ammo I loaded and the results aren't what I expected anyway. It will probably be too long like this one but it's hard for me to shrink the time and get all the content in.
Greeting moparmadman. Yet again, a great video on the 6.5Creedmoor, thanks for the great info, and your time. I don't think i will go as far as you have with brass prep(Just yet though). I went to the range this morning tested three loads in Ruger PR. 120gn Berger HPBT Target - 47.5grns Superformance COL 2.845" -> 10shots 100yrds -> 1 1/4". Then 10shots with 48grns Superformance 3/4" group(one ragged hole/witnesses)) @100yrds. Then 140grn Hornady SST with 42grns Hodgdons 4350 COL 2.845"(This will be my standard COL always) 2x10 - 2" groups at 100yrds(I went from 39grs to 42grs - I think 40.5grs is going to be it). 10shots 140grn SST with 44grns IMR 4350, also gave me a 2" group. Sorry i don't have FPS to give(guesstmates?) No pressure signs to really mention, even the 48grns Superformance. I'm really liking the Berger 120grn HPBT Target so far..... Cheers. Keep the excellent videos coming. I'm sure there are many of us waiting to see more Hal Copy...
Mr. Nagy, Glad to see you enjoying the content on the channel. Looks like you have been up to the same. So going through your list on the 120, max in the Hornady book for Superformance is 48.5. If I was to guess in my rifle that load would be around 2950, maybe slower. Loading all the way up to max I have seen almost zero pressure signs at all with Superformance. I just got some 140 SST's myself so you will probably see them on the channel sometime in the future but it might be a while. Your H4350 load does go over max by .5 grains, not having the chronograph data is hard because it seemed that the hotter the load the better the SD/ES numbers that I have got, you might get another accuracy node just a little hotter, but pressure should be your guide. My guess of FPS on that load is 2680 (again if it was my rifle) Your IMR 4350 at 44gr on the 140 is 2gr over max hornady data (you are using a longer OAL of course too, but I just don't have a lot if experience with that powder yet.) It is likely above 2800, but again my experience on this powder is very limited. I confess I did get a pound to try it out and the videos are coming. Stay tuned and thanks your your kind words as always!
Greetings.... Ya, i'm trying to spend a few hours on my reloading bench every night(Why did i buy so much brass LOL)... ok, so I measured Hornady factory 129grn SST Superformance 2950fps advertised for COL, and got and average of a few from 2.670" to 2.675". When i was going to tumble the brass(after shooting naturally) I did notice much more pressure signs on the primer(flatter) than my 120grn Bergers with 48grns Superformance, maybe because they crimp? short seating depth? I'm going to pull a factory bullet tonight and measure the powder, as that's the spot I am at with 150 primed ready to load(Will let you know the weight) I'm loading 140grn graphite coated bullets tonight SST's with 45grns Superformance. I'm sure they will be just fine in my RPR, even though the book say's 44.7 max for 2700fps. I will even load 3 with 46grn Superformance to fire cold bore, just to check for pressure..... May 6th PRS match creeping up quickly...Cheers, the reloading bench is calling...... :)
Interested to see if you get anywhere close to published data on the Superformance loads on the 140's. I would get close with the lighter bullets but never the 140's. Cheers.
I pulled a couple factory Hornady 129grn SST Superformance bullets last night. Ok I got 47.3grns Superformance in one, and 47.1grns in another. I think they are trying for 47grns?. Interesting the book has 46.7 as the Max load for this bullet with Superformance powder. I loaded up 40 shells with 140grn SST(Graphite coated) @45.5grns Superformance. Loading 100 tonight with 120grn Moly coated BTHP with 49grns Superformance, this should give me about 3050fps. I really need to get a MagnetoSpeed.... Cheers.
In my opinion the lower velocity with the Lapua brass is most certainly due to the small rifle primer. I would be tempted to try CCI 450 small rifle magnum primer. Good video, thanks.
I really don't think that many people are going to turn down their own decapping pin and if they haven't bought the equipment yet I like to show people what they can buy to make it work.
Very well done. It answered a lot of questions that I had about the Lapua Small rifle primer brass. Q: How much did the manual small-rifle punch cost and where did you get it?
+Neil Harris I knew someone was going to ask. I know that people like to do that but personally I am not really sure how to do it and trust the results. I will be doing a follow up with velocity data with the same load work up soon. Stick around. I am not sure how I am going to trim perfectly without the primer out. I am interested if you have a good idea.
moparmadman no worries. If you trim the cases all to the same length per lot before seating a primer it would be interesting to see the weight differences with more uniform lengths. Lapua had the best weight spread but also had the most consistent length. Hornady may have improved numbers once trimmed to same length.
+Neil Harris that is probably doable. I am not much of a water volume fan. There are just too many ways to cause variation with water weight. Water tension variation, etc. I don't want to give out bad info, or info I don't trust.
Have done volume test. Hornady 53.5 Norma 52.7 Nosler 53.3 Lapua 52.7. These are after first firing. I agree with moparmadman not the most reliable info but works well for Quick Load.
In the Pacific Northwest CCI 450s (small rifle magnum) are a popular option for the 6.5x47. We expect the same for the 6.5 CM. During the component shortages, CCI seemed to be readily available.
+Ed Mobley I need to do some testing. I saw in your video you were using the small rifle magniums, but in a video from 2017 shot show the Lapua rep was talking about why they picked the small rifle primer and not using Magnum primers I thought. I am interested if the are some resources I am missing about this info. Thanks.
I know there are some folks who have observed better accuracy from using the mildest primers available, but I also hear folks who get better results from magnum primers. Over this weekend I heard that some folks are enlarging the flash holes on their Lapua brass despite the fact that the 2mm flash hole was part of their design. Indeed it can be confusing and just confirms the need for shooters to conduct their own research. As you've figured out by now, we don't present ourselves as experts at www.65guys.com. We're just relaying our journey and what is working for us at the time.
+John Uriniuk when doing a quick search the only one that I didn't see state that it is annealed was Hornady. I know for certain they the Lapua and Norma is. But honestly I don't think that you can manafacture it without being annealed. Thanks for watching.
+John B it depends what projectile you want to shoot largely. And you might pick a different one based in the distance you want to shoot. Also based on how many times you reload each case. Personally I would never tell you to reload to save money. I doubt I will ever break even. (I get too many toys) Reload cause you like the hobby and want better ammo than you can buy over the counter.
Just saw 6.5 Guys 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass vid. Similar documentation, different subject. Thought your info was more informative for making a brass decision. I already felt 10-15 reloads was a reason to buy. Keep up the good work. Wish I had the time and knowledge to be active in the community for now I'll share with you.
+acasper9 thanks for compliment. I saw it too and was surprised that they took concentricity data without resizing but their channel their way. I'll have another vid out soon about Lapua brass and how they differ across the chronograph. It is surprising to me and hoping my subscriber base again has some more great ideas.
The idea was to understand how concentric the brass was out of the box. One can easily introduce run-out or remove run-out depending on the type of die used: Bushing vs non-bushing, honed FL die, size of expander, size of bushing, etc. I can take the best brass and wreck it and take the worst brass and straighten it out depending on how I resize. Therefore, taking a measurement after sizing would be more of a commentary on our sizing die setup versus the quality of the brass.
You'll be very interested and I recommend you take a look at 6.5 Creedmoor brass from Alpha Munitions. Incredible consistency that rivals Lapua for less money, better packaging, and made in the USA with fantastic customer service. I canceled a backorder of Lapua, went with the Alpha and haven't looked back. Team Area 419 did some great testing of the Alpha Munitions 6.5 Creedmoor brass which can be found on their FB page here facebook.com/teamarea419/posts/1805578312801008 for anybody who would like to take a look. BTW, I'm not a part owner/silent owner/minority shareholder in Alpha Munitions or Team Area 419. Alpha just makes a great product that is worthy of recognition. Keep up your great work!
Tony, thanks for the info I am always interested in information on new high quality products. It looks like about $1 a case so it is very close to Lapua. I would try some out, but I have invested enough in brass at this moment. (looks like a pack of 100 is the lowest quantity you can get) If you want to send me some I would be happy to try it out on the channel. I have a follow up info coming on the the brass with a load workup i did in all 3 certainly got some results I did not expect. Stay tuned if you liked the video.
+Deplorable Texan I was keeping the best and worst of the lots identified before I started filming. These are the ones I demonstrate on the case neck thickness gauge.Thanks for commenting. Hope you enjoy the channe.
This is a very good video with lots of excellent information on steps you can take to ensure your brass is as uniform as possible. One thing I would really like to have seen is a follow-up showing the internal case capacity, in H2O, of 5 to 10 pieces of each brand of brass, after firing. The initial case prep steps are really important, and can definitely reduce group sizes, but I have found that what you wind up with after your first firing tells you a lot more about what kind of accuracy you'll get on all subsequent firings. This is so true that I no longer do anything more than weight-sort and inspect brass before that first firing, knowing that I won't be narrowing down which pieces I reload with until after they've been fired.
I'm about to build my first 6.5 Creedmoor. This was great info buddy. Much appreciated.
Glad you liked it. If your not subscribed to the channel already, think about it. I am coming out with more 6.5 creedmoor content all the time.
Best info I've seen on TH-cam and internet. Exactly what I've found will all three types of brass. Well documented my info is just chicken scratch in a notebook. Will just add the Norma brass I tried was new and had split necks on first firing. Can't wait for your mandrel testing.
+Anthony Fanzo thanks for the compliment. It takes a lot of time to put this together. I hoped others would be as interested as I was to get it together.
Great Video brother, I appreciate this. Very informative for myself. I'm sure others can learn something as well.
Great series of videos! Thanks
If you want results sometimes you just have to pay................The US in WW2 increased its anti aircraft effectiveness 600% by installing a mini-vaccuum tube proximity fuse into its large caliber AA guns............it was expensive and difficult ( each fuse was hand made) but it got results. Thanks to the author of the video, it goes a long way to explain the difference in brands and what the extra $$$ goes towards.
great camera skill. greatly appreciated.
+Stef Big thanks for the comment. Hope you enjoy the content here on the channel.
243 brass first trimmed to 1.930, lightly lubed, then one pass through a lee sizer die and final trim to 1.910 using simple LEE trim kit and cordless drill.
Works for me. Shoots 5 round groups using 140 gn Hornady ELD/ADI 2206H into a small pistol patch at 100 yards.
Readily available Federal 243 once-fired brass at 20 cents each through my Remington 700-based, fluted barrel, MDT ESS chassised custom rifle.
Got sick of trying to source factory 6.5 Creedmoor brass. Now shoot more often and more cheaply.
You can also downsize more readily available, and therefore cheaper 308 cases, but it can take 4-5 incremental passes to achieve and possibly lose a case now and then when the shoulder collapses. Far easier to upsize the 243 to 264 and haven't lost a case yet.
Twenty cents is bugger-all and I enjoy the prep. 243 for me.
Thanks again for another informative, real world useful video.
+John Shusdock thanks. Your comments are appreciated. Be on the lookout for a follow up to this video soon. I have shot the ammo I loaded and the results aren't what I expected anyway. It will probably be too long like this one but it's hard for me to shrink the time and get all the content in.
Your format, video quality and content are excellent, I am looking forward to your next video, thanks again!
Excellent video!
+Ed Mobley thanks. It means a lot from a big channel such as you guys have. I have done some follow up stuff that I am hoping to get posted soon.
Just keep on plugging away and the viewers will come. We just started our 4th season and it's been quite a ride.
Great vid
Just got some Peterson brass from Brownells. It looks really good, reviews are very good. Cheaper than Lapua or Norma. May want to try them
I have, and I have a video on it too. Its great stuff.
Greeting moparmadman. Yet again, a great video on the 6.5Creedmoor, thanks for the great info, and your time. I don't think i will go as far as you have with brass prep(Just yet though). I went to the range this morning tested three loads in Ruger PR. 120gn Berger HPBT Target - 47.5grns Superformance COL 2.845" -> 10shots 100yrds -> 1 1/4". Then 10shots with 48grns Superformance 3/4" group(one ragged hole/witnesses)) @100yrds. Then 140grn Hornady SST with 42grns Hodgdons 4350 COL 2.845"(This will be my standard COL always) 2x10 - 2" groups at 100yrds(I went from 39grs to 42grs - I think 40.5grs is going to be it). 10shots 140grn SST with 44grns IMR 4350, also gave me a 2" group. Sorry i don't have FPS to give(guesstmates?) No pressure signs to really mention, even the 48grns Superformance. I'm really liking the Berger 120grn HPBT Target so far..... Cheers. Keep the excellent videos coming. I'm sure there are many of us waiting to see more Hal Copy...
Mr. Nagy, Glad to see you enjoying the content on the channel. Looks like you have been up to the same. So going through your list on the 120, max in the Hornady book for Superformance is 48.5. If I was to guess in my rifle that load would be around 2950, maybe slower. Loading all the way up to max I have seen almost zero pressure signs at all with Superformance.
I just got some 140 SST's myself so you will probably see them on the channel sometime in the future but it might be a while. Your H4350 load does go over max by .5 grains, not having the chronograph data is hard because it seemed that the hotter the load the better the SD/ES numbers that I have got, you might get another accuracy node just a little hotter, but pressure should be your guide. My guess of FPS on that load is 2680 (again if it was my rifle)
Your IMR 4350 at 44gr on the 140 is 2gr over max hornady data (you are using a longer OAL of course too, but I just don't have a lot if experience with that powder yet.) It is likely above 2800, but again my experience on this powder is very limited. I confess I did get a pound to try it out and the videos are coming. Stay tuned and thanks your your kind words as always!
Greetings.... Ya, i'm trying to spend a few hours on my reloading bench every night(Why did i buy so much brass LOL)... ok, so I measured Hornady factory 129grn SST Superformance 2950fps advertised for COL, and got and average of a few from 2.670" to 2.675". When i was going to tumble the brass(after shooting naturally) I did notice much more pressure signs on the primer(flatter) than my 120grn Bergers with 48grns Superformance, maybe because they crimp? short seating depth? I'm going to pull a factory bullet tonight and measure the powder, as that's the spot I am at with 150 primed ready to load(Will let you know the weight) I'm loading 140grn graphite coated bullets tonight SST's with 45grns Superformance. I'm sure they will be just fine in my RPR, even though the book say's 44.7 max for 2700fps. I will even load 3 with 46grn Superformance to fire cold bore, just to check for pressure..... May 6th PRS match creeping up quickly...Cheers, the reloading bench is calling...... :)
Interested to see if you get anywhere close to published data on the Superformance loads on the 140's. I would get close with the lighter bullets but never the 140's. Cheers.
I pulled a couple factory Hornady 129grn SST Superformance bullets last night. Ok I got 47.3grns Superformance in one, and 47.1grns in another. I think they are trying for 47grns?. Interesting the book has 46.7 as the Max load for this bullet with Superformance powder. I loaded up 40 shells with 140grn SST(Graphite coated) @45.5grns Superformance. Loading 100 tonight with 120grn Moly coated BTHP with 49grns Superformance, this should give me about 3050fps. I really need to get a MagnetoSpeed.... Cheers.
Be warned that hornady / hodgen claim that the powder is not same as the over the shelf superformance.
In my opinion the lower velocity with the Lapua brass is most certainly due to the small rifle primer. I would be tempted to try CCI 450 small rifle magnum primer.
Good video, thanks.
Hi Brice, thanks for the comment. I did a video on the primers as well if you are interested. th-cam.com/video/ZPu0DzIgKNk/w-d-xo.html
Would like to see which brass gives best groups
Check out my Peterson brass review. I was pretty impressed.
Did you consider turning down the circumference of the other decapping pins to just below the Lapua 1.5mm?
I really don't think that many people are going to turn down their own decapping pin and if they haven't bought the equipment yet I like to show people what they can buy to make it work.
Very well done. It answered a lot of questions that I had about the Lapua Small rifle primer brass. Q: How much did the manual small-rifle punch cost and where did you get it?
I use the redding part number 69100. I got it from midway. Today its $21.
very good details. Any chance of doing a volume test with water to compare the brass once all trimmed to spec?
+Neil Harris I knew someone was going to ask. I know that people like to do that but personally I am not really sure how to do it and trust the results. I will be doing a follow up with velocity data with the same load work up soon. Stick around. I am not sure how I am going to trim perfectly without the primer out. I am interested if you have a good idea.
moparmadman no worries. If you trim the cases all to the same length per lot before seating a primer it would be interesting to see the weight differences with more uniform lengths. Lapua had the best weight spread but also had the most consistent length. Hornady may have improved numbers once trimmed to same length.
+Neil Harris that is probably doable. I am not much of a water volume fan. There are just too many ways to cause variation with water weight. Water tension variation, etc. I don't want to give out bad info, or info I don't trust.
moparmadman fair enough :)
Have done volume test. Hornady 53.5 Norma 52.7 Nosler 53.3 Lapua 52.7. These are after first firing. I agree with moparmadman not the most reliable info but works well for Quick Load.
Good job on the vid. I see a good separation just by the headstamp name. I am seeing the same thing in my .308 win.
which primers does lapua recommend for those small primer pockets?
+JB I have been using fed205m. Eventually I will try some cci but I am not sure they tell you anything besides not Magnum primers.
In the Pacific Northwest CCI 450s (small rifle magnum) are a popular option for the 6.5x47. We expect the same for the 6.5 CM. During the component shortages, CCI seemed to be readily available.
+Ed Mobley I need to do some testing. I saw in your video you were using the small rifle magniums, but in a video from 2017 shot show the Lapua rep was talking about why they picked the small rifle primer and not using Magnum primers I thought. I am interested if the are some resources I am missing about this info. Thanks.
I know there are some folks who have observed better accuracy from using the mildest primers available, but I also hear folks who get better results from magnum primers. Over this weekend I heard that some folks are enlarging the flash holes on their Lapua brass despite the fact that the 2mm flash hole was part of their design. Indeed it can be confusing and just confirms the need for shooters to conduct their own research. As you've figured out by now, we don't present ourselves as experts at www.65guys.com. We're just relaying our journey and what is working for us at the time.
thanks man.
+terry schreck no problem. Good you guys like it.
I know that the Hornady brass comes already aneled are the other two aneled? I am looking to get some lapua brass in the near future.
+John Uriniuk when doing a quick search the only one that I didn't see state that it is annealed was Hornady. I know for certain they the Lapua and Norma is. But honestly I don't think that you can manafacture it without being annealed. Thanks for watching.
+John Uriniuk got home and surly the hornady box said, some cases have anneal marks.
They are annealed
How much per round by reloading yourself? I notice manufactured goes up to over a dollar per round.
+John B it depends what projectile you want to shoot largely. And you might pick a different one based in the distance you want to shoot. Also based on how many times you reload each case. Personally I would never tell you to reload to save money. I doubt I will ever break even. (I get too many toys) Reload cause you like the hobby and want better ammo than you can buy over the counter.
If you don't count brass, around 50 cents depending on the projectile. But you can get great loads for around that price.
Good job
Thanks for the compliment.
Just saw 6.5 Guys 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass vid. Similar documentation, different subject. Thought your info was more informative for making a brass decision. I already felt 10-15 reloads was a reason to buy. Keep up the good work. Wish I had the time and knowledge to be active in the community for now I'll share with you.
+acasper9 thanks for compliment. I saw it too and was surprised that they took concentricity data without resizing but their channel their way. I'll have another vid out soon about Lapua brass and how they differ across the chronograph. It is surprising to me and hoping my subscriber base again has some more great ideas.
Have info on first fired and once fired cases. I'll wait for your vid to share. Thanks buddy.
+acasper9 make me wait? Your as bad as a TH-cam channel. Fair enough. Did you see velocity differences at Max loads?
Yes was really surprised. Had better velocity with nosler brass. Slight difference in accuracy. Probably not enough to even mention.
The idea was to understand how concentric the brass was out of the box. One can easily introduce run-out or remove run-out depending on the type of die used: Bushing vs non-bushing, honed FL die, size of expander, size of bushing, etc. I can take the best brass and wreck it and take the worst brass and straighten it out depending on how I resize. Therefore, taking a measurement after sizing would be more of a commentary on our sizing die setup versus the quality of the brass.
You'll be very interested and I recommend you take a look at 6.5 Creedmoor brass from Alpha Munitions. Incredible consistency that rivals Lapua for less money, better packaging, and made in the USA with fantastic customer service. I canceled a backorder of Lapua, went with the Alpha and haven't looked back. Team Area 419 did some great testing of the Alpha Munitions 6.5 Creedmoor brass which can be found on their FB page here facebook.com/teamarea419/posts/1805578312801008 for anybody who would like to take a look. BTW, I'm not a part owner/silent owner/minority shareholder in Alpha Munitions or Team Area 419. Alpha just makes a great product that is worthy of recognition. Keep up your great work!
Tony, thanks for the info I am always interested in information on new high quality products. It looks like about $1 a case so it is very close to Lapua. I would try some out, but I have invested enough in brass at this moment. (looks like a pack of 100 is the lowest quantity you can get) If you want to send me some I would be happy to try it out on the channel. I have a follow up info coming on the the brass with a load workup i did in all 3 certainly got some results I did not expect. Stay tuned if you liked the video.
Damn... 300 Lapua ca$e$...
I like to see the shooting
why are 7 of the shells upside down? (just curious as I'm learning)
+Deplorable Texan I was keeping the best and worst of the lots identified before I started filming. These are the ones I demonstrate on the case neck thickness gauge.Thanks for commenting. Hope you enjoy the channe.
The word Hornady does not end with the pronunciation “day”