I think this is a really important issue. This interview has inspired me to do a deep dive on keto wrt athletic performance. Been wondering about that for awhile.
Natural bodybuilders tend to have testosterone drop to dangerous levels. To keep fats up to assist with hormones the carbohydrates need to be dropped. When you take PEDs you can drop all the fat because the drugs keep hormones in check. Natural bodybuilders tend to have better hormone balance on keto towards the end of prep. The body is flexible.
Nicely balanced. I like how you explore the positions of the keto camp by taking their positions and examining them in depth. Paul Mason, a sports physician in Australia who you'd probably disagree with on a lot of things, says that he advises (or has advised) sports teams to take a low carb approach so might have some direct clinical experience that could be interesting in terms of the application of fat adaption. Can't remember the name of the study but there's one where they collected biopsies of different diets where the keto runners had higher levels of fat metabolism compared to the mixed fat/carb group and similar performance. The type of exercise might matter as HIIT could be more glycogen dependent.
Good material to continue my research, first time on your channel. Just please, do not put ''can you build muscle on a keto diet?'' on the title if 98% of the conversation is NOT about muscles.
Over time the saturated fat is going to 'bite back' BIG time whereas the Polyunsaturated will reverse that same harm! Fats and carbs aren't equal! @@Harrythehun
@@jonbarlow3542 Carbs, proteins and fats are different and are processed differently within a body. But the question was within a macronutrient, does a body know the difference between carbohydrates from different sources? Or are you referring and talking about micronutrients in food?
Hey Harry thanks for your reply, in your first sentence you state that carbs, proteins & fats are processed differently within the body, and/but isn't it also fair to say that depending on those origins/types of macronutrients; carbs, proteins & fats, plays a major role in the way the body processes them? Saturated is atherogenic whilst Polyunsaturated reverses LDL plague build up? when you say "does the body know the difference between carbs from different sources", well we know that the body definitely reacts differently to different types of carbs and fats, and in the context of the video, the question was asked, about fat retention and the point was made that the High carb diet did perform better than the high fat diet in this regard. Is that not what you got from it? @@Harrythehun
honestly I think most of the studies are looking at athletes. An athlete is a different beast than a regular joe who does not have dedicated intensive physical exercise 4-5h a day. I've herd that an athlete will quickly burn through carbs thus a high carb diet doesn't affect them as much. Also carbs trigger insulin, and insulin triggers the growth hormone thus it makes sense for an athlete to be on a high carb diet to be more successful. However fur us average joes....I don't think high carb works unless you are doing a ton of manual labor, or are born with defective metabolism where you cannot extract nutrients and energy effectively, thus you would need more food(carbs or not). As for `losing weight is equal on carbs and on fats`, I think that's true. Did raw veganism few times for a week or two at a time for a year, and I do think I lost more and faster more weight, than when on keto. However the thing is that I was hungry all the time( and that was hell for me), and had low energy. On keto(when I'm doing it right), I lose weight somewhat slowly but I don't feel hungry and my energy levels at time scare me. Maybe it's not energy as in "I can lift heavier and longer", but the type where I get up in 6am and at 11 - 12 pm I still don't feel like sleeping. On a high carb I would wake up at 8-9am(feel like shit) and was like dead in 7pm.
if you are doing keto to lose weight i can see how people can revert to eating carbohydrates. but people doing keto because of metabolic issues have a vested interest in following thru. it's literally do or die.
Keto apdapted people have just as much muscle glycogen as high carb people. I’ve been strict keto for 2 months and seem to get stronger every day (after about 2 weeks of decreased energy)
For the average person no. For someone with advanced knowledge in keto, dieting, muscle hypertrophy, and an extensive supplementation routine, yes. Extra precautions need to be taken and the gains ramp up over time
Once a person is insulin resistant low carb will reverse it , the problem was probably because of refined carbs I would believe but you still have to reverse the problem, if you are metabolic healthy Then balanced diet is probably the best , low carb for me , but healthy carbs for sure . I think the insulin Model is correct. Anyone can check their blood sugar and realise that grains rice bread potatoes raise the blood sugar higher than low glycemic foods, standard American diet is no good at all .
The insulin injection experiment is being done every day in doctor offices around the world. Type 2 diabetics treated with insulin or insulin releasing drugs gain more weight and studies show increase in mortality and events in those groups. As well type 1 diabetics who use carbs to manage dips in blood glucose gain weight and basically develop type 2 diabetes on top of their type 1 diabetes. Note as well hypertrophic fat deposits developing at insulin injection sites.
Suppers appetite and lowers insulin resistance in the first place, then lowers need for endogenous insulin so netto effect is lower insulin. There a lot we don’t know about semaglutide.
Kind of seems like they don’t know what they’re talking about, they said once they go from carbs to high fat they’re eating less calorically dense foods, which is hilarious because that is the most calorically dense food.
Like this guy - yet - once someone is conditioned to use fat better - This is NOT accounted for in MOST if not ALL of the studies/ research on keto - Can ‘still’ grow a considerable amount of muscle on a long-term ketogenic diet - Also - cutting on a ketogenic diet allows for keeping MOST if not ALL muscle when trimming down ESPECIALLY for high-end/ professional natural bodybuilders - Yet - BALLS-TO-THE-WALL - someone going all out for muscle growth eating high carbs WILL out do someone who is fat adapted on keto for ‘building muscle’ BAR NONE - However - if done correctly - cutting on Keto is SO MUCH MORE EASIER for getting down to 4-6% body fat for on stage conditioning as a professional natty bodybuilder - Check out Keto Savage .
Most people cannot sustain a keto diet long term. Very difficult to adhere to unless one has a medical condition and it’s the only way they can relieve symptoms. Probably why diet studies show similar weight at 6-12 months whether one adopts a low carb or high carb diet.
Like this guy - yet - once someone is conditioned to use fat better - This is NOT accounted for in MOST if not ALL of the studies/ research on keto - Can ‘still’ grow a considerable amount of muscle on a long-term ketogenic diet - Also - cutting on a ketogenic diet allows for keeping MOST if not ALL muscle when trimming down ESPECIALLY for high-end/ professional natural bodybuilders - Yet - BALLS-TO-THE-WALL - someone going all out for muscle growth eating high carbs WILL out do someone who is fat adapted on keto for ‘building muscle’ BAR NONE - However - if done correctly - cutting on Keto is SO MUCH MORE EASIER for getting down to 4-6% body fat for on stage conditioning as a professional natty bodybuilder - Check out Keto Savage .
Glycogen levels are lower in keto folks compared to those eating carbs - that’s pretty well established now. Can still build muscle. Is it optimal for prolonged exercise - doesn’t seem so
I am 11 months into carnivore diet, started lifting 8 months ago and am definitely building muscle with only trace carbs (~20 grams/day). Early into carnivore i became rather skinny, from losing water retention weight and likely because carnivore foods are extremely nutrient dense and satiating resulting in a slight daily calorie deficit even though i was eating until perfectly full. If you look at me before i started gym vs now, i have put on some impressive muscle. I think the most important thing that really matters when trying to gain muscle on keto/carnivore is that you are in a calorie surplus while getting enough protein, and of course training hard. If you nail those variables, you absolutely will put on muscle.
You can definitely gain muscle on carnivore, especially if you are new to lifting, your body is very responsive to lifting stimulus in the first year or so. Long term, if you want to perform at a higher level, you do need a balance of carbs. I know people want to disregard carbs as the devil, but top end performance requires carbs. If no carb was better for performance then pro athletes would all be on that diet looking for a competitive edge. We don't see that, and in fact there are plenty of examples of people reincorporating carbs an seeing big improvements.
@@rpearce25 Professor Tim Noakes who is an expert in sports science with a focus on low carb says in his latest research they discovered there is no difference between low carb athletes' performance and high carb ones, assuming the low carb athletes are fully fat adapted. There are actually numerous pro rugby players from australia and new zealand in particular who are low carb. David Pocock from australia and the Franks brothers Ben and Owen of new zealand. There are more but they remain undercover because they don't want to lose sponsorships or create controversy for speaking out. Personally, I would rather remain metabolically healthy (as a casual, non-competitive lifter) than dabble in carbs which does no good to your health. Here's the new Tim Noakes interview : th-cam.com/video/GzIhfUX5i2I/w-d-xo.html
@@Dirk_van_Tonder I am aware of Tim Noakes. He clearly had an individual experience that changed his trajectory in terms of approach to nutrition. The preponderance of evidence still suggests a balance of protein, unrefined carbohydrates, and healthy fats are the healthiest way to go, and a study or two created by a guy who has a clear bias isn't going to move the needle for me. Personally, I eat a lot of carbs and don't experience all the downsides that the low carb community talks about, and I find I can stick to a modified version of the Mediterranean diet quite well, which I enjoy, keeps me feeling fueled for the day, and all my measurables are where they should be. At the end of the day, a diet low in junk that you can stick to is going to give you good results either way, so best of luck.
You don't need to ask a clueless guy to know the answer... Just need to check Vince Gironda, one of the greatest bodybuilders doing keto many years ago.. 36 eggs and meat... how he was building muscle without carbs? So ridiculous...
@@m_m991 well, Vice defended to be natty but anyway all bodybuilders use steroids so you are comparing individuals of the same kind anyway. It's just one example there many others that are less likely to be taking steroids... in the youtubers world Dr.Chaffee or Dr. Shawn Baker are quite muscular on carnivore. My biggest muscles gains came when I went carnivore... and of course I'm more muscular than the guys in this video defending to you need to put sugar in your body, the only not essential macronutrient in the body, to get muscle, a essential and key factor of our bodies... nonsense.
I know… How dare they invented a drug that would increase people’s insulin levels! I don’t even care that this drug actually works and helps people lose weight 😂
The carbohydrate-insulin model is valid. That’s why Type 1 diabetics inject insulin and fat pouches appear. If insulin did not have this effect, the fat pouches would not appear exactly where the injections occur.
@@sonuchauhan-ne3cj this is repeated by diabetics every day. It's why the fat appears at the injection site. This is not "mechanistic speculation"-one of the jobs of insulin is to store circulating energy (via triglycerides) in adipose tissue.
I think this is a great interview well, thank you. I think you'll be challenged by the breakdown of studies quoted in " Ketogenic nutrition in athletes" particularly the break down of a study on Glycogen in Keto adapted athletes, note here 'adapted' is the key word. Ive read poor quality studies contrasting low carb to high carb with athletes which are done with athletes or populations that aren't fat adapted, (often the studies are too short) as you can see in the breakdown its a myth that glycogen stores are depleted in low carb athletes.The presentation is by Dr Paul Mason (an exercise physiologist has a clear way of breaking down an analysis of RCT, and META analysis of RCT) presents more complexity to this question. th-cam.com/video/KF3buYQWJ3E/w-d-xo.html
15:30 This does not make sense. looks like this guy just went through some youtube videos and started talking about keto in fancy words, I have followed a lot of people followingKeto and never heard about this 19:38.
To say no whit this certainty whereas there are many people who gained lean muscles on keto.. is really showing how bullshitting this guy talks... really said for those who wants to build muscles healthy way...the way he laughs is nothing but ignorance
LeBron James won Championships in Ketosis - Michael Jordan ex-coach got James on Keto during the off-season - and he kicked butt - He is obviously not doing Keto NOW, but he did it once before and it WORKED BALLS!!
@@TheProofWithSimonHillwhat study shows greater lean mass preservation in a hypo caloric high carb diet vs a hypo caloric ketogenic diet when controlled for protein..? The ketogenic diet is known for producing ketone bodies which have an anti-catabolic effect...
![Why your Low Carb Diet is hurting your Heart, and How to Improve it. [11 Studies]](/img/n.gif)
I think this is a really important issue. This interview has inspired me to do a deep dive on keto wrt athletic performance. Been wondering about that for awhile.
I would love to see your research on this Chris!
Can't wait to see the video!
Simon, you this Clip finally NAILS-IT ! for me at least. Love This Channel !!!!!!! Thank You !
Natural bodybuilders tend to have testosterone drop to dangerous levels. To keep fats up to assist with hormones the carbohydrates need to be dropped. When you take PEDs you can drop all the fat because the drugs keep hormones in check.
Natural bodybuilders tend to have better hormone balance on keto towards the end of prep.
The body is flexible.
Nicely balanced. I like how you explore the positions of the keto camp by taking their positions and examining them in depth. Paul Mason, a sports physician in Australia who you'd probably disagree with on a lot of things, says that he advises (or has advised) sports teams to take a low carb approach so might have some direct clinical experience that could be interesting in terms of the application of fat adaption. Can't remember the name of the study but there's one where they collected biopsies of different diets where the keto runners had higher levels of fat metabolism compared to the mixed fat/carb group and similar performance. The type of exercise might matter as HIIT could be more glycogen dependent.
The problem is high fat and high carb and also the low quality of each combined makes for an unhealthy condition.
Good material to continue my research, first time on your channel. Just please, do not put ''can you build muscle on a keto diet?'' on the title if 98% of the conversation is NOT about muscles.
What carbs & what fats??? Whole food plant based carbs? Monounsaterated, polyunsaturated or saturated fat???? Wheres the detail please?
Does your body know and feel any difference?
Over time the saturated fat is going to 'bite back' BIG time whereas the Polyunsaturated will reverse that same harm! Fats and carbs aren't equal! @@Harrythehun
@@jonbarlow3542 Carbs, proteins and fats are different and are processed differently within a body. But the question was within a macronutrient, does a body know the difference between carbohydrates from different sources? Or are you referring and talking about micronutrients in food?
Hey Harry thanks for your reply, in your first sentence you state that carbs, proteins & fats are processed differently within the body, and/but isn't it also fair to say that depending on those origins/types of macronutrients; carbs, proteins & fats, plays a major role in the way the body processes them? Saturated is atherogenic whilst Polyunsaturated reverses LDL plague build up? when you say "does the body know the difference between carbs from different sources", well we know that the body definitely reacts differently to different types of carbs and fats, and in the context of the video, the question was asked, about fat retention and the point was made that the High carb diet did perform better than the high fat diet in this regard. Is that not what you got from it? @@Harrythehun
Would an equal amount of fat be more fattening than carbohydrate in a diabetic individual?
honestly I think most of the studies are looking at athletes. An athlete is a different beast than a regular joe who does not have dedicated intensive physical exercise 4-5h a day.
I've herd that an athlete will quickly burn through carbs thus a high carb diet doesn't affect them as much. Also carbs trigger insulin, and insulin triggers the growth hormone thus it makes sense for an athlete to be on a high carb diet to be more successful.
However fur us average joes....I don't think high carb works unless you are doing a ton of manual labor, or are born with defective metabolism where you cannot extract nutrients and energy effectively, thus you would need more food(carbs or not).
As for `losing weight is equal on carbs and on fats`, I think that's true. Did raw veganism few times for a week or two at a time for a year, and I do think I lost more and faster more weight, than when on keto. However the thing is that I was hungry all the time( and that was hell for me), and had low energy. On keto(when I'm doing it right), I lose weight somewhat slowly but I don't feel hungry and my energy levels at time scare me. Maybe it's not energy as in "I can lift heavier and longer", but the type where I get up in 6am and at 11 - 12 pm I still don't feel like sleeping. On a high carb I would wake up at 8-9am(feel like shit) and was like dead in 7pm.
if you are doing keto to lose weight i can see how people can revert to eating carbohydrates. but people doing keto because of metabolic issues have a vested interest
in following thru. it's literally do or die.
Keto apdapted people have just as much muscle glycogen as high carb people. I’ve been strict keto for 2 months and seem to get stronger every day (after about 2 weeks of decreased energy)
For the average person no. For someone with advanced knowledge in keto, dieting, muscle hypertrophy, and an extensive supplementation routine, yes. Extra precautions need to be taken and the gains ramp up over time
Once a person is insulin resistant low carb will reverse it , the problem was probably because of refined carbs I would believe but you still have to reverse the problem, if you are metabolic healthy
Then balanced diet is probably the best , low carb for me , but healthy carbs for sure .
I think the insulin Model is correct. Anyone can check their blood sugar and realise that grains rice bread potatoes raise the blood sugar higher than low glycemic foods, standard American diet is no good at all .
no low carb does not reverse diabetes, weight loss does you 🤡🤡🤡
The insulin injection experiment is being done every day in doctor offices around the world. Type 2 diabetics treated with insulin or insulin releasing drugs gain more weight and studies show increase in mortality and events in those groups. As well type 1 diabetics who use carbs to manage dips in blood glucose gain weight and basically develop type 2 diabetes on top of their type 1 diabetes. Note as well hypertrophic fat deposits developing at insulin injection sites.
Semiglutide increases insulin levels, but also works wonders in helping people lose weight.
Suppers appetite and lowers insulin resistance in the first place, then lowers need for endogenous insulin so netto effect is lower insulin. There a lot we don’t know about semaglutide.
do we calculate net carbs?
Kind of seems like they don’t know what they’re talking about, they said once they go from carbs to high fat they’re eating less calorically dense foods, which is hilarious because that is the most calorically dense food.
Like this guy - yet - once someone is conditioned to use fat better -
This is NOT accounted for in MOST if not ALL of the studies/ research on keto -
Can ‘still’ grow a considerable amount of muscle on a long-term ketogenic diet -
Also - cutting on a ketogenic diet allows for keeping MOST if not ALL muscle when trimming down ESPECIALLY for high-end/ professional natural bodybuilders -
Yet - BALLS-TO-THE-WALL - someone going all out for muscle growth eating high carbs WILL out do someone who is fat adapted on keto for ‘building muscle’ BAR NONE -
However - if done correctly - cutting on Keto is SO MUCH MORE EASIER for getting down to 4-6% body fat for on stage conditioning as a professional natty bodybuilder -
Check out Keto Savage .
Most people cannot sustain a keto diet long term. Very difficult to adhere to unless one has a medical condition and it’s the only way they can relieve symptoms. Probably why diet studies show similar weight at 6-12 months whether one adopts a low carb or high carb diet.
Like this guy - yet - once someone is conditioned to use fat better -
This is NOT accounted for in MOST if not ALL of the studies/ research on keto -
Can ‘still’ grow a considerable amount of muscle on a long-term ketogenic diet -
Also - cutting on a ketogenic diet allows for keeping MOST if not ALL muscle when trimming down ESPECIALLY for high-end/ professional natural bodybuilders -
Yet - BALLS-TO-THE-WALL - someone going all out for muscle growth eating high carbs WILL out do someone who is fat adapted on keto for ‘building muscle’ BAR NONE -
However - if done correctly - cutting on Keto is SO MUCH MORE EASIER for getting down to 4-6% body fat for on stage conditioning as a professional natty bodybuilder -
Check out Keto Savage .
Glycogen levels are lower in keto folks compared to those eating carbs - that’s pretty well established now. Can still build muscle. Is it optimal for prolonged exercise - doesn’t seem so
such idiocy. Of course you can. Been doing it for years.
I am 11 months into carnivore diet, started lifting 8 months ago and am definitely building muscle with only trace carbs (~20 grams/day). Early into carnivore i became rather skinny, from losing water retention weight and likely because carnivore foods are extremely nutrient dense and satiating resulting in a slight daily calorie deficit even though i was eating until perfectly full.
If you look at me before i started gym vs now, i have put on some impressive muscle.
I think the most important thing that really matters when trying to gain muscle on keto/carnivore is that you are in a calorie surplus while getting enough protein, and of course training hard. If you nail those variables, you absolutely will put on muscle.
You can definitely gain muscle on carnivore, especially if you are new to lifting, your body is very responsive to lifting stimulus in the first year or so. Long term, if you want to perform at a higher level, you do need a balance of carbs. I know people want to disregard carbs as the devil, but top end performance requires carbs. If no carb was better for performance then pro athletes would all be on that diet looking for a competitive edge. We don't see that, and in fact there are plenty of examples of people reincorporating carbs an seeing big improvements.
@@rpearce25 Professor Tim Noakes who is an expert in sports science with a focus on low carb says in his latest research they discovered there is no difference between low carb athletes' performance and high carb ones, assuming the low carb athletes are fully fat adapted. There are actually numerous pro rugby players from australia and new zealand in particular who are low carb. David Pocock from australia and the Franks brothers Ben and Owen of new zealand. There are more but they remain undercover because they don't want to lose sponsorships or create controversy for speaking out.
Personally, I would rather remain metabolically healthy (as a casual, non-competitive lifter) than dabble in carbs which does no good to your health.
Here's the new Tim Noakes interview :
th-cam.com/video/GzIhfUX5i2I/w-d-xo.html
@@Dirk_van_Tonder I am aware of Tim Noakes. He clearly had an individual experience that changed his trajectory in terms of approach to nutrition. The preponderance of evidence still suggests a balance of protein, unrefined carbohydrates, and healthy fats are the healthiest way to go, and a study or two created by a guy who has a clear bias isn't going to move the needle for me. Personally, I eat a lot of carbs and don't experience all the downsides that the low carb community talks about, and I find I can stick to a modified version of the Mediterranean diet quite well, which I enjoy, keeps me feeling fueled for the day, and all my measurables are where they should be. At the end of the day, a diet low in junk that you can stick to is going to give you good results either way, so best of luck.
You don't need to ask a clueless guy to know the answer... Just need to check Vince Gironda, one of the greatest bodybuilders doing keto many years ago.. 36 eggs and meat... how he was building muscle without carbs? So ridiculous...
💉
@@m_m991 well, Vice defended to be natty but anyway all bodybuilders use steroids so you are comparing individuals of the same kind anyway. It's just one example there many others that are less likely to be taking steroids... in the youtubers world Dr.Chaffee or Dr. Shawn Baker are quite muscular on carnivore. My biggest muscles gains came when I went carnivore... and of course I'm more muscular than the guys in this video defending to you need to put sugar in your body, the only not essential macronutrient in the body, to get muscle, a essential and key factor of our bodies... nonsense.
What about ozempic...sounds like an expensive disaster waiting to happen.
I know… How dare they invented a drug that would increase people’s insulin levels! I don’t even care that this drug actually works and helps people lose weight 😂
The carbohydrate-insulin model is valid. That’s why Type 1 diabetics inject insulin and fat pouches appear. If insulin did not have this effect, the fat pouches would not appear exactly where the injections occur.
That sounds like mechanistic speculation. Ifthe result can not be replicated & verified in real world, than thus mechanism means nothing.
@@sonuchauhan-ne3cj this is repeated by diabetics every day. It's why the fat appears at the injection site. This is not "mechanistic speculation"-one of the jobs of insulin is to store circulating energy (via triglycerides) in adipose tissue.
I think this is a great interview well, thank you. I think you'll be challenged by the breakdown of studies quoted in " Ketogenic nutrition in athletes" particularly the break down of a study on Glycogen in Keto adapted athletes, note here 'adapted' is the key word. Ive read poor quality studies contrasting low carb to high carb with athletes which are done with athletes or populations that aren't fat adapted, (often the studies are too short) as you can see in the breakdown its a myth that glycogen stores are depleted in low carb athletes.The presentation is by Dr Paul Mason (an exercise physiologist has a clear way of breaking down an analysis of RCT, and META analysis of RCT) presents more complexity to this question. th-cam.com/video/KF3buYQWJ3E/w-d-xo.html
15:30 This does not make sense. looks like this guy just went through some youtube videos and started talking about keto in fancy words, I have followed a lot of people followingKeto and never heard about this 19:38.
To much potentially answers
Woohoo 🎉
The first words he said are pure garbage.
To say no whit this certainty whereas there are many people who gained lean muscles on keto.. is really showing how bullshitting this guy talks... really said for those who wants to build muscles healthy way...the way he laughs is nothing but ignorance
Biggest drawback with keto is ammonia breath, stinky clothes and being weaker and slower in sports.
LeBron James won Championships in Ketosis - Michael Jordan ex-coach got James on Keto during the off-season - and he kicked butt -
He is obviously not doing Keto NOW, but he did it once before and it WORKED BALLS!!
Wrong.
Why?
@@TheProofWithSimonHillwhat study shows greater lean mass preservation in a hypo caloric high carb diet vs a hypo caloric ketogenic diet when controlled for protein..? The ketogenic diet is known for producing ketone bodies which have an anti-catabolic effect...
Keto diet = muscle loss
I'm on keto and i can tell,,,, it sucks to build muscle, at least for me.