The sound of the tempered part against the chuck jaws when you mounted it, and the sparks, suggested to me that it was harder than RC30. The Leeb type hardness tester you are using, measures the amount of energy absorbed from the mass dropped on it, by recording the height, actually the duration, of the bounce. Softer material will absorb more energy and the bounce will be less than harder material, which absorbs less energy. Accurate measurement depends on the mass of the sample, so small samples should be clamped securely to a large mass, with no air gap underneath, or clamped in, say, a large vice. In the case here, the samples were measured while placed on an uneven surface, so energy from the dropped mass may not be properly returned, hence it could be indicating much softer than it actually is, and would account for the large variation in the readings. Trust this is helpful.
Loved the trick for clocking the part. Nice work! You may also be able to 3d print your own plates for that super spacer with as many notches as needed for the job.
Yes, what a brilliant idea. I need to start thinking better like that when it comes to 3-D printing solving my issues. In this case, I don’t think they would’ve worked. I was looking at the Super spacer manual and it looks like I would’ve needed a 36 plate. Or maybe a 48 plate. They have those plates on the bigger units mostly because of clearance. (24”) When you’re adding that many notches to the disc based on the size of the engagement paw I don’t know that there’s actual space for 48 individual or 36 individual spots on the smaller 8 inch units.
Good work, nice clocking solution! I've shattered knife blanks before at around 60 HRC. As impressive as it is depressive depending on the amount of effort you have in them.
I've designed similar things like these and had the teeth induction harden with a high frequency of around 35-45K, polymer water quench. They would check around 45-50HRC. Very little if any warpage. ION Nitriding would work, too.
I’m definitely not going to change how I speak over the course of several episodes. Plus the episode you seen was filmed several months ago. It is definitely near impossible to read someone’s comment and completely change how you speak and then in the next episode everything is resolved. You’d be better off changing your expectation. Sorry I can’t make you happier.
Great video! I love watching your stuff, and learn a lot of new things in the process. Ignore all of the haters commenting on your speaking style!! I am curious what your thoughts are about how these modififed parts will perform with fewer teeth than the originals. I am not 100% sure how they work to engage each other, but I can sort of visualize the fewer teeth taking more time to engage, as they will have to rotate further. Will this lead to "clunking", or a harder engagement?
Yeah, that was a few months ago. The teeth work functionally fine but yeah they do take a little bit longer to engage. So when you’re feeding the quill out because there’s a worm gear, the rotation is very minimal on the hand wheel so it’s gonna take more degrees of rotation for the clutches to fall into place. if for some reason when I’m using the machine and annoys me, I have the spares I can just make different ones with more teeth so far it seems fine but the jury is still out.
Hitting 60rc with 4140 is going to be hard even with Superquench, with oil you don't have a chance of breaking 45. I used to make swaging dies with 4140 and could hit high 50's with Superquench with the cost of having 1 in 6 crack.
I don't agree. I routinely hit the mid to high 50's HRC with an oil quench. Not a problem. His heat treat procedure was good. I don't believe the janky hardness tester. A proper diamond indenter will tell the story. This comes from a degrees metallurgist and machinist.
I hate dividing heads as well but I love my rotery table. Just a handcrank and a dial and I can get every angle I want. Even mill radiai. I think you have way to little clearence in the teeth. Engaging it will be a real pain. But nothing an anglegrinder cant fix after disasembly ;)
Since the straight cut is only for roughing, I think the angle wouldn't need to be perfect for that. I'd propably make all 12 straight cuts first, with a bit of stock left for both sides, then loosen the part and eyeball the angle. I couldn't make out if your plate can do a 24 pattern, but then you could go every even step for one side of the dogs and every odd number for the other sides. But for a 12 pattern having a reference for relocation is definitely a good way to do it.
Okay, this comes from a metallurgist and machinist. Your heat treat approach and procedure looked pretty good. I think the problem is your hardness tester. I would personally not trust it for a second and throw it away. Look at used equipment sources and buy a proper diamond indenter Rockwell tester. What was your starting material? I must have missed that.
Good material choice. Remember you will also get a decarb layer after heat treating in an air furnace. Remove this first before testing hardness with a proper diamond indenter.
Do you have a pottery supply. They sell various stands for the kiln with tiny contactpoints that mighr allow a more even heating as setting them directly on the fire bricks might be like a heat sink in some areas
I'm thinking that once you clocked the part by 7 1/2 degrees you could have continued across the ring (like on your straight cut pass) and cut the dog on the opposite side of the ring and it would have cut the back face. That would avoid the second clocking operation and guarantee the same angle on both the front and back faces without introducing any potential error from a second clocking operation.
Assuming the teeth are cut from center of the part they should act like a slices of pizza, which means they should always be an angled on the sides. Otherwise they wouldn't engage correctly. With that said I think You should be able to mill everything just using dial on the rotating chuck using some math. Anyway, great job especially that it's not cnc!
Unfortunately, I cannot properly follow which axis you shift the disk to achieve the 7.5 degrees. Perhaps you could have visualized the Fusion360 drawing better with an arrow drawn on it showing how you could achieve this. But respect for the results achieved. Greetings from the Netherlands.
I cry and die a little inside every time i see you cutting steel on the lathe like you're doing without any coolant. You must burn up a *lot* of cutters.
@@FullSendPrecision I guess that depends on what kind of coolant you're using. I have used a light oil-based lubricant/coolant on my mill and my bandsaw for years and haven't had those issues. On the other hand, I do fairly routinely take down the parts that get the coolant on them and clean out the debris and whatnot so that stuff doesn't just sit there forever either.
Some carbide insert manufacturers recommend dry cutting because some inserts are very sensitive to thermal shock and basically fall apart on you. I make moulds for a living and we have such inserts you run with coolant they break on you without warning even though you have good and consistent coolant flow, logically makes no sense but it is what it is lol. (water based coolant). And its not that deep, we can rough out like a 800x600mm mould with rotating them once after roughing for like 3 hours constantly. (you have to shovel out the chips because there are too many).
The parts turned out great! I'm gonna go hug my CNC mill...
Wes… love your channel man. Us Illinois people need to stick together
The sound of the tempered part against the chuck jaws when you mounted it, and the sparks, suggested to me that it was harder than RC30. The Leeb type hardness tester you are using, measures the amount of energy absorbed from the mass dropped on it, by recording the height, actually the duration, of the bounce. Softer material will absorb more energy and the bounce will be less than harder material, which absorbs less energy. Accurate measurement depends on the mass of the sample, so small samples should be clamped securely to a large mass, with no air gap underneath, or clamped in, say, a large vice. In the case here, the samples were measured while placed on an uneven surface, so energy from the dropped mass may not be properly returned, hence it could be indicating much softer than it actually is, and would account for the large variation in the readings. Trust this is helpful.
That was a great trick you did on the Super Space. Another job well done.
Appreciate it!
Nice job Kyle. A novel approach to machining the angles on the dogs which worked really well. I'm looking forward to the next one!
Awesome, thank you!
Loved the trick for clocking the part. Nice work! You may also be able to 3d print your own plates for that super spacer with as many notches as needed for the job.
Yes, what a brilliant idea. I need to start thinking better like that when it comes to 3-D printing solving my issues. In this case, I don’t think they would’ve worked. I was looking at the Super spacer manual and it looks like I would’ve needed a 36 plate. Or maybe a 48 plate. They have those plates on the bigger units mostly because of clearance. (24”) When you’re adding that many notches to the disc based on the size of the engagement paw I don’t know that there’s actual space for 48 individual or 36 individual spots on the smaller 8 inch units.
I am glad to see you are using spacers on the lathe chuck.A lot of people trust the flats on the chuck jaws. I know better and,so do you.
Cool trick on calculating the 7-1/2 degree rotation! Brilliant!
Yeah worked great. Hey Greg
So great to see you on this Saturday November 2nd…pb
Appreciate the support Paul!
Great video, parts are turning out fantastic.
Thanks for sharing.
Absolutely
Great video, learning a lot from you
Glad to hear it!
Awesome video really enjoy watching your craftmanship
I appreciate it.
Good work, nice clocking solution! I've shattered knife blanks before at around 60 HRC. As impressive as it is depressive depending on the amount of effort you have in them.
Yes indeed 60 is pretty hard
And then there were all those kids in the mathematics classes in schools asking, "When am I ever going to need to use trigonometry?"
Yep agreed
But fusion did the trig
@@southmaplegarage Haa hhaaa, probably, but you still need to know how it works.
Very clever solution. Thanks!
Appreciate it
Great video....totally stealing the rotation trick. I am really excited to see your dentistry in the next one....lots of teeth!
Yes indeed lots of teeth
looks very good!!
Yeah, pretty pleased with how they turned out.
I've designed similar things like these and had the teeth induction harden with a high frequency of around 35-45K, polymer water quench. They would check around 45-50HRC. Very little if any warpage. ION Nitriding would work, too.
That’s a good idea!
If you are ready , the Lucas HBO is better than new. Greetings from Germany.
Thanks appreciate it
MUCH better but that cadence is still part of your speaking style.Josh Topper is a very good speaker.
I’m definitely not going to change how I speak over the course of several episodes. Plus the episode you seen was filmed several months ago. It is definitely near impossible to read someone’s comment and completely change how you speak and then in the next episode everything is resolved. You’d be better off changing your expectation. Sorry I can’t make you happier.
Great video! I love watching your stuff, and learn a lot of new things in the process. Ignore all of the haters commenting on your speaking style!! I am curious what your thoughts are about how these modififed parts will perform with fewer teeth than the originals. I am not 100% sure how they work to engage each other, but I can sort of visualize the fewer teeth taking more time to engage, as they will have to rotate further. Will this lead to "clunking", or a harder engagement?
Yeah, that was a few months ago. The teeth work functionally fine but yeah they do take a little bit longer to engage. So when you’re feeding the quill out because there’s a worm gear, the rotation is very minimal on the hand wheel so it’s gonna take more degrees of rotation for the clutches to fall into place. if for some reason when I’m using the machine and annoys me, I have the spares I can just make different ones with more teeth so far it seems fine but the jury is still out.
Hitting 60rc with 4140 is going to be hard even with Superquench, with oil you don't have a chance of breaking 45. I used to make swaging dies with 4140 and could hit high 50's with Superquench with the cost of having 1 in 6 crack.
That’s good to know thanks
I don't agree. I routinely hit the mid to high 50's HRC with an oil quench. Not a problem. His heat treat procedure was good. I don't believe the janky hardness tester. A proper diamond indenter will tell the story. This comes from a degrees metallurgist and machinist.
The dogs would probably be a good candidate for plasma nitriding, but that's not something you can do with just an oven.
Yeah I’m that would be good
I hate dividing heads as well but I love my rotery table. Just a handcrank and a dial and I can get every angle I want. Even mill radiai.
I think you have way to little clearence in the teeth. Engaging it will be a real pain. But nothing an anglegrinder cant fix after disasembly ;)
Yeah maybe you are correct
Nice work
I appreciate it
Since the straight cut is only for roughing, I think the angle wouldn't need to be perfect for that. I'd propably make all 12 straight cuts first, with a bit of stock left for both sides, then loosen the part and eyeball the angle. I couldn't make out if your plate can do a 24 pattern, but then you could go every even step for one side of the dogs and every odd number for the other sides. But for a 12 pattern having a reference for relocation is definitely a good way to do it.
Yeah good points
Okay, this comes from a metallurgist and machinist. Your heat treat approach and procedure looked pretty good. I think the problem is your hardness tester. I would personally not trust it for a second and throw it away. Look at used equipment sources and buy a proper diamond indenter Rockwell tester.
What was your starting material? I must have missed that.
4140
4140 annealed
Good material choice. Remember you will also get a decarb layer after heat treating in an air furnace. Remove this first before testing hardness with a proper diamond indenter.
Do you have a pottery supply. They sell various stands for the kiln with tiny contactpoints that mighr allow a more even heating as setting them directly on the fire bricks might be like a heat sink in some areas
Yeah good point
I'm thinking that once you clocked the part by 7 1/2 degrees you could have continued across the ring (like on your straight cut pass) and cut the dog on the opposite side of the ring and it would have cut the back face. That would avoid the second clocking operation and guarantee the same angle on both the front and back faces without introducing any potential error from a second clocking operation.
Yeah I was wondering that as well but for some reason I didn’t do it that way
Assuming the teeth are cut from center of the part they should act like a slices of pizza, which means they should always be an angled on the sides. Otherwise they wouldn't engage correctly. With that said I think You should be able to mill everything just using dial on the rotating chuck using some math. Anyway, great job especially that it's not cnc!
Yeah good points
Sweet!
Thank you
Unfortunately, I cannot properly follow which axis you shift the disk to achieve the 7.5 degrees. Perhaps you could have visualized the Fusion360 drawing better with an arrow drawn on it showing how you could achieve this. But respect for the results achieved. Greetings from the Netherlands.
Thanks i appreciate it
What was the final hardness after machining?
28
Should there not be a little chamfer on the top of each of the dog teeth to help them engage?
Factory was straight but I am with ya
A CNC mill would make this easier
I cry and die a little inside every time i see you cutting steel on the lathe like you're doing without any coolant. You must burn up a *lot* of cutters.
Eh. Carbide is tough. Coolant ruins everything.
@ how exactly does coolant ruin everything?
@ it gets into all the places you can’t see and gums up and rusts.
@@FullSendPrecision I guess that depends on what kind of coolant you're using. I have used a light oil-based lubricant/coolant on my mill and my bandsaw for years and haven't had those issues. On the other hand, I do fairly routinely take down the parts that get the coolant on them and clean out the debris and whatnot so that stuff doesn't just sit there forever either.
Some carbide insert manufacturers recommend dry cutting because some inserts are very sensitive to thermal shock and basically fall apart on you. I make moulds for a living and we have such inserts you run with coolant they break on you without warning even though you have good and consistent coolant flow, logically makes no sense but it is what it is lol. (water based coolant). And its not that deep, we can rough out like a 800x600mm mould with rotating them once after roughing for like 3 hours constantly. (you have to shovel out the chips because there are too many).
Sixth
👍