LITHIUM is OUT for now… | Not everything works first time | iTechWorld 1420 CA PRO | The AGM is back
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2024
- Lithium is the way of the future and its appearing in engine bay’s of 4WD’s across the country.
Recently I installed a iTechWorld 1420 CA PRO lithium cranking battery into the engine bay of my Landcruiser 200 series, however it remained there for 1 week before being replaced with the original AGM starter.
Today I go over the reasons why I’ve switched my battery back across to an AGM and how I might go about using lithium again in the future with some simple mods.
These batteries are advertised as drop in replacements, however there are many factors to consider when swapping over to lithium and I’ll be the first to admit that I missed one important factor in this instance.
I hope this video can educate those who are considering lithium batteries and help to bring out all the facts that need to be addressed.
Here are some of the video’s I’ve released previously and mentioned in this video:
Lithium Cranking Battery Testing/Install - • LITHIUM CRANKING BATTE...
Auxiliary Lithium Under Bonnet vs AGM - • UNDER BONNET LITHIUM |...
Problems and Issue with the Landcruiser 200 - • LC200 | PROBLEMS & ISS...
Redarc BCDC1240D - ebay.us/7y5q0u
iTechWorld 1420 CA PRO - itechworld.com.au/collections...
Victron BMV712 Monitor - ebay.us/RGiOID
Victron Smart BatteryProtect - ebay.us/cvr2Bx
00:00 - Introduction
00:48 - The Issue
01:33 - Charging System
03:54 - Why it was occurring
05:09 - Is there charger working correctly?
06:48 - Solutions
09:00 - Conclusion
Here is some of the camera and audio gear used to film and produce our videos:
Sony A6400: ebay.us/Vk6dD6
Sony 24-105mm G Lens: ebay.us/317T9c
K&F Concept Tripod: ebay.us/KnDMW9
GoPro Hero 8: ebay.us/RolXxy
GoPro Mic Adapter: ebay.us/TavATp
Rode Videomicro: ebay.us/ZIagAa
Rode Videomic Pro: ebay.us/T8jep7
Rode Videomic Pro Deadcat: ebay.us/WUeLy6
Rode Wireless Go: ebay.us/ptDtzi
Canon EOS 70D: ebay.us/7tb0pR
DJI Mavic 2 Pro: ebay.us/kPIchk
Follow us on:
Facebook: / xploroz
Instagram: xploringoz...
DISCLAIMER: Links included in this description might be affiliate links. If you purchase a product or service with the links that I provide I may receive a small commission. There is no additional charge to you! Thank you for supporting XploringOz. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![[Live] : ONE FIGHT NIGHT 23 วันนี้!! “เร ยุน vs อาลิเบก”](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ClLQVYWSrUk/mqdefault.jpg)
Fascinating Nathan. I have the exact same aux setup with a BCDC and Victron monitoring as you do. I intend replacing my lead cranking battery with a lithium when it dies. As I have a resting current draw of around .15amps on my aux battery, I would have run into the exact same issue with the drawdown on my new lithium cranking battery. You have saved me from a few headaches chasing the problem down, and for that I thank you. I’ll still go the lithium crank, but use the Victron solution you outlined to prevent the start battery discharge. Now time to pack, I’m off camping for Easter. Go well mate, cheers from Jafffa Adventures.
G'day Terry, I'm glad I was able to test this before you experienced the same problem. Fortunately it seems like a fairly simple and easy fix at a relatively low cost. Reading the other comments here, it would appear that the Victron unit doesn't like heat, so it may have to be mounted within the vehicle to function correctly, something to think about.
Have a great Easter break.
Cheers, Nathan.
Be careful replacing your lead acid cranking battery with a lithium cranking battery. Obviously it can’t be connected through a BC DC and you may have to go without a vehicle while you argue with auto elects and vehicle manufacturers. In the end it’s easier to work out the problem, which I did at the beginning of problems, and just bite the bullet and fix it yourself.
Since I’ve had solar on my vw t4 always seen to have current draw.I run a cable back from solar and leisure batteries back to starter battery.with an isolator inline.I’ve read recently about fitting diodes in solar to stop. Solar current draw also
Great work mate. I'm learning so much from guys like you. 👍
Cheers mate, so glad to be able to help 👍
Thanks for the feedback, Nathan
Nathan .. your research and development is like no other well done again you fix my issues before I even get them in the 200 .. :) :)
Thanks Tom! Hopefully this can help a few people who are considering similar setups and glad to be able to help with you future issues haha.
Cheers.
This is the most useful, well explained video I’ve seen in a long time. Many thanks for sharing. You’ve saved me from learning the same lesson the hard way. Cheers
Thanks mate, appreciate that. I'm glad I was able to help.
Cheers, Nathan.
Once again you have saved us a lot of time of having to do the technical research ourselves, keep up the great work Nathan!
Cheers mate, hopefully it can help a few people out and allow them to make informed decisions with everything in mind!
Cheers 👍
Another great episode Nathan .. Very informative as per usual..
Thanks mate, hopefully this can help some people out who may be looking at a similar setup.
Cheers.
That was extremely informative and well explained making it easy to understand.Thank you. I haven;t changed to a Lithium start battery yet, but when I do I now know the issues which may arise. I have installed both iTech World and Redarc systems similar to yours and totally agree that the after market support of both is excellent. cheers Ian.
Great information. You are very good at presenting so it was easy to follow along.
Thanks mate, appreciate it 👍
Nicely explained and with a choice of solutions! Kudos
Glad it was helpful!
Great work Nathan for your investigative work.
I like the features of the Victron Smart Battery Protect because of it's delayed connect that would give maximum battery for the vehicle to start before connecting through to the BCDC and secondary battery. I've read comments about not installing the Smart Battery Protect under the bonnet but I feel it would be best located closer to the main battery it's protecting.
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed the episode.
Yes, heat concerns would be something to consider. I think I'll stay with the simple relay setup for my fix and see how this goes.
Cheers, Nathan.
Hi Nathan I have the I tech batteries in my Land cruiser. I had the same problem as you to start with.
The Redarc and the Enerdrive were designed for lead acid cranking batteries.
I just added two relays. One for the Redarc in the cruiser and the other for the off road caravan with the Enerdrive .
Works great and have not had any problems.
Great show.
Cheers
Wayne
Awesome, great to hear that you have managed to sort a simple and effective solution 👍
Thanks mate, glad you are enjoying the content.
Cheers, Nathan.
I’ve installed the Victron smart battery protect. Works a treat.
I like the ability to adjust the cut off voltage. Occasionally while camping I’ve lowered the cut off voltage, when the Aux batt was low, to draw a little more off the cranking battery and put some in the Aux.
Good to hear some positive feedback on the Victron unit.
Cheers 👍
Thanks for the Vid. I have had the itechworld crank in my Navara since Oct21. I also have itechworld BCDC to charge Aux itechworld 120A for fridge in car. Had the same issue, solution was relax exactly as you described.
Great Video. Using the KISS principle, why not go to a 200amp narva relay to connect the batteries, open when ignition is on, closes when off. You can run a basic additional relay for manual override as needed. This is assuming both batteries mgt systems can take constant alternator charge. You then run LV disconnects on your aux systems as needed. Ditch the fancy (expensive) gear.
Great vid Nathan. One thing I’m not sure was clear is that the victron bmv712 can control and manage a third party relay. Keep the vids coming!
Cheers mate. So the Victron unit is not a controller as such and will only monitor the battery activity. A separate component would be required to provide a voltage cut out feature.
Cheers 👍
Excellent info and well explained. Many thanks.
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it 👍
This is the reason why i changed my system to a intervolt unit.. i had a projecta unit that even with the ign wire connected it would revert to standard settings when the ign was in the off position id come back to the car with a voltage of anywhere between 11.5-11.8 (starting battery) and the unit would automatically trigger itself on and off as the battery rested and came back up to the threshold, with the intervolt unit on the correct settings once the ignition is off.. the unit is off.. and it disregards any setting other than solar input (if solar panel is connected)... great informative videos by the way..
For sure and I'm confident that Redarc will start to adapt to this technology by adding these features to their units as well. To be honest I'm surprised they haven't already.
Thanks mate, appreciate the feedback.
Very interesting & informative video, to show us the options needed to overcome problems with solutions, so we don't end up stranded in the middle of Whoop Whoop. Cheers Big Ears
Cheers mate, glad it was helpful 👍
Cheers, Nathan.
Another great YT. I concur RE: Redarc service. I had one of the very first BCDC1240’s after they were first released. I had a little Non-Redarc issue but wanted to make sure the Redarc wasn’t causing interference & the Redarc engineer was Excellent. He virtually bent over backwards to help me.
Apply the KISS theory to that problem & stick to the cheaper/lighter option to correct that problem would be the way I would go too. I can only imagine the look on your face when you saw the readings on that lithium cranker 😂….. can’t miss a trick springs to mind 🤦♂️
Redarc will definitely be getting more of my money in the future because a company that supports its customers should get support in return. 👍
Absolutely, cannot complain about the Redarc service at all. Very happy and satisfied with their customer service.
I feel like I'm slowly straying away from the KISS principle with all the modifications I'm adding, but hopefully they last the test of time and hold up to the abuse I throw at them 😬
great info I am sure as you said many people have struggled with very similar problems ...thanks again for the very practical info ..safe travel s
Thanks mate, hopefully this will help some people in the future.
Cheers, Nathan.
Great video Nathan. Most DCDC chargers include an ignition wire to detect ignition, but it seems all this does is change the parameters i.e. lower the cut-in voltage for compatibility with some vehicles. I wonder why it isn't used as a simple binary switch? i.e. charge when ignition detected, stop when not. It would be a simple (firmware only) change I would think. If you don't want to use that feature simply connect the ignition wire to the input battery instead to retain previous behavior.
Yes, and the Redarc does have a blue wire 'low voltage' setting, however this only adjust the parameters slightly, not enough to eliminate this issue properly. I agree that the solution seems firmware related and I'm sure it won't be long before manufactures are including these options in the newer models as these setups become more popular.
I'm going to assume that given Redarc technicians also gave me the advice regarding the relay, suggests that the blue ignition wire probably won't solve my issue in this instance.
Cheers,
Great video. The victron unit is a good product but has an upper operating temperature limit of 60deg C which means it may not work properly if installed under the bonnet. Just something to keep in mind if going down that route
For sure and something I forgot to mention in this video. It would be counter intuitive to have to wire this in and out of the cab to prevent overheating.
Cheers, Nathan.
Good Vid mate, as others have said, the victron SBP doesn’t like heat, and many have had issues with them installed under the bonnet. Relay could be the go, or an even better option in my opinion is a victron argofet isolator. Solid state, and replaces the DCDC and relay. Charge both batteries fasted as well👌, assuming both can handle the current from the alternator👍
Cheers mate, yes the heat concerns was something I forgot to mention in this video. I'm think the relay should be a simple fix and was the solution suggested by Redarc themselves too.
Cheers 👍
Awesome info
Thanks so much for sharing
Much appreciated 👍
No problems, hopefully it can help out 👍
Absolutely nailed it great presentation. Also another good key point to to add here is people still running a lead acid cranking battery having it on a trickle charge will force the DC charger to kick in resulting in a flat starter battery as most trickle chargers are very low in amperage.
Another option would be to install an ignition controlled 80 amp or higher relay on the Pre side of your existing DC charger.
For sure, another great point. I think ASPW also mentioned this in a video regarding a similar experience 👍
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz there are a lot of changes in this industry at the moment. From this coming June there are some standard changes also in the Caravan industry. This will help out and weed out a lot of the Cowboys out there. Also some of the big players/companies are also developing more suitable and also programmable chargers. Let’s be honest it would be great if we could program both Redarc or Enerdrive products via our smart phones. Just like we can do with Victron. You will see a shift towards this as lithium becomes more predominant in the industry. Also reading state of charge directly from the battery will be the standard. DCS for example.
@@extremeacc101 Hmm, will be interesting to keep an eye on these changes. It will surely make some manufactures nervous...
Yes, I can see the future of DCDC chargers including features like this and that way they will be able to be customised for any combination of battery setups. They will have to make if fool proof though so people who aren't aware of the setups can't harm their systems...
Well spoken and explained mate. Currently looking at Itechworld batteries.
Thanks mate, appreciate that. For what it's worth, I'm still running the same starter battery without issue 👍
@@XploringOz I'm looking at their smaller motorbike batteries for an experimental aircraft, either that or make one.
@@chippyjohn1 Wow, that sounds like a great project. All the best, hopefully you find the best solution to the power needs 👍
Excellent feedback nathan.
Cheers mate 👍
ASPW came across this a while ago while putting his starter on charge on 5amps and his BCDC pulling 40amps out as it detected charging. Changed how i do things.
Yes, I have that same issue too when I have the cruiser on trickle charge in the garage between trips. The Redarc will activate and keep both batteries at capacity.
I should have realised this would be the case when installing this battery 🤦♂️
Cheers
Just checked my Piranha DBE140SF Dual Battery Isolator has a stated cut-out voltage of 12.8V, so I could expect a similar problem … very frustrating! Thanks for the update.
Yes, I would say you would encounter a very similar issue with that charger. Hope this could help in your decision making.
Cheers
Thanks for the video. Explains a what is happening with my setup. Itech lithium starter and auxiliary batteries with a renogy dcdc controller. The setup will be fine some times and then other times I have to repeatedly put a Jumper pack on the starter. Interested to see what your work around is.
Keep up the great videos.
Hey mate, yeah sounds like a very similar issue. Hopefully a simple fix will be the solution 👍
Cheers.
Great video. A 50A relay might be a bit small for a 40A Redarc, given it may actually draw up to 50A and is protected by 60A fusing. Narva make a nice 70A relay which is what I use.
Cheers mate, I'll keep this in mind. I might try the 50A setup first, only to test to see if this is the case. It wouldn't be hard to switch out for a 70A in the future if issues arise.
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz I have just put in an old school isolator in between my dcdc and main battery works a treat!
Thanks for the straight talk and reliable information that provides.
My conclusion for myself after looking at the prices of the batteries + isolator and taking into consideration the weight savings of 40+kg on the front wheels is I'll keep the weight on the front wheels and stick to the LA batteries.
The vehicle originally came with LA's and is designed for the LA batteries. If one of the batteries fails a replacement is relatively easily found anywhere and won't cost $1000 odd. We also don't know how Lithium batteries will survive 1,000's of km of rutted roads.
No problems mate, I'm glad you enjoyed the video 👍
For sure, I hear where you are coming from, Lithium is still new tech and we don't know exactly how it's going to react to the conditions we place it under long term. I guess this is why I'm testing and reporting my results and hopefully this can help others make informed decisions for their vehicle.
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz I'm constructing a camper and in it is 13.8kWh of LiFePO4 that weigh around 80gk. If I ever finish it, I´ll be able to tell you how the Lithiums perform! Mind you I'm insulating them from vibration as if they're eggs.
great explanation - thanks
Cheers mate 👍
Hi mate, I have a similar setup with iTech batt. Dont use the Victron Batt Protect as they sometime trip out and detect a short circuit fault and you will not get BCDC charge when driving. It will annoy you and you will end up bypassing it. They are a solid state relay and dont like inrush current. Also dont use a 50A relay if you can as it may be too small. I would use a 150A Narva or Kickass low voltage relay that opens at 12.8v (20% SOC) or if you want to maintain all start batt storage, use a >100A relay off your ignition trigger. An even better solution is to not have a BCDC at all and install 2 iTech batts. You will be charging at 140A off the alternator and amazed at how fast you recharge. Then connect your loads through a LVD relay to protect batts from over discharging and maintain starting power. (I have this in my cruiser and is so much better). Hope this helps. Cheers, Adam
Cheers mate, some food for thought there. I'll have a look and see what I can come up with.
Thanks 👍
thank you, Sterling UK, B2B charges, their switch off is 13.2 it can be changed ,30/60 amp out ..Merc approved in Europe and the US, it will also handle Euro 5/6 alternators with 17.5 v and 200 amp cycles..
Great vid Buddy . Run my lithiums in parallel, use redarc as solar controller only at this stage . different set ups, nevertheless extremely informative . big tick from me . keep 'em up
Thanks mate. Do you run iTechWorld batteries in parallel, or are you using the DCS system?
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz dcs buddy
I run a Renogy DC-DC charger with lithium aux, lead acid crank battery, and solar input. When the aux battery is full, the Renogy charges the crank battery using solar input. However, your excellent explanation of the lithium crank battery issue has alerted me - when my 4 year old crank battery dies I was planning to put in a Lithium, and would almost certainly have run into this issue, although somewhat mitigated by the solar input to the crank battery being pretty much continuous (because the crank battery would be topping up the aux to 100%). Fitting a simple isolator would destroy my crank battery charging from the solar, so that would not work for me. I need to check the Victron unit to see if it can pass the current both ways, and isolate the crank when engine is off. Otherwise my solution would be to go with lead acid crank battery again.
I had a similar issue with my lithium battery's Atem Power DC-DC charger taking the Yellow Top under the bonnet down to 12.5V before it disconnected. Coupled with the parasitic draw and my 4wd only running for an hour or two on weekends, the workout killed the battery pretty quickly. The simplest solution for me was to connect the charger's ACC/ignition sensing line to switched power instead of directly to the starting battery and running it through a relay and a switch so I can keep the ignition on for the radio without the charger switching on. Probably because it doesn't try to be smart like the Redarc, it seems to stop charging if it sees nothing on the ignition sensing line so I can effectively use it as an on/off switch.
Cheers for sharing mate 👍
Sounds like it's been a common problem for those with similar setups.
Hoping I'll be able to work around it very shortly.
Cheers, Nathan
Thanks for the video
As I’m not a auto electrician it was a total bleed 🩸 of information
No problems mate, I hope I can help explain the issue 👍
With so little voltage drop on the lithium battery it would be hard for the charger to disconnect before flattening the crank battery the constant high voltage is a great feature in a cordless drill but a challenge for us off-road who use Voltage to measure how much charge is left in a battery.I not sure about the ignition wired solenoid you could be connecting a extra 50 amp load to your crank battery when you don't want it ? great video regards Mike
Yes, the constant high voltage can make it hard to see what's going on with the state of charge, this is why I'm using the Victron BMV712 monitor which can record the Ah's coming from the battery and therefore provide a state of charge reading as well as time remaining with current power drawer good 👍
Cheers, Nathan.
Fantastic info
Cheers mate 👍
Great info. thanks.
Cheers mate 👍
Hey mate excellent and very informative video as per usual, I’m also looking to run the same system, with the itech cranking and 120x pro aux, I have a 1225d with solar running in and still has the redarc isolator in as well for the jump start in cab, will I need to also run a 70a hd relay from lithium crank battery to bcdc?
What relay did you get and how did you wire it?
Cheers
Hi there. I know this is an old video but what about getting rid of the BCDC altogether and using the Victron Battery disconnect? Or putting in a bigger relay and switching out the auxiliary immediately upon engine stop. Then the auxiliary can use full alternator current upon restarting the vehicle?
Great info. I’ve purchased the victron but not sure as to what parameters to set in it. Maybe best for me to look at the tech specs of my itech DCDC first
Hi Nathan great research you saved me the dramas as I am going down the track with same Itec starting battery and possibly auxiliary Itec lithium battery, how will the 50 amp relay go with the lithium auxiliary? I use the same Redarc 1240 as your setup. Surprising Itec doesn't address this problem in the installation brochure with Lithium battery. Looking forward to seeing the brand and installation of the relay you choose .Thanks
Thanks mate, glad to hear I may have helped you in the future 👍
The 50A relay shouldn't effect the auxiliary battery, only determining the state of the Redarc BCDC unit.
Yes, I guess everyone has a different setup and not everyone will need to consider this, however if iTechWorld mentioned this it many hurt sales a little 🤷♂️
Either way, I hope this can raise awareness to other's with similar setups.
Cheers.
Hi Nathan, did the redarc and itech provided the wiring diagrams with the isolator? i am facing kind of same issue too but mine is AGM start battery and Lithum AUX battery. i am thinking of installing a victorn smart battery protect in between my AGM start battery and BCDC 1240D. One thing i dont undestand is the BCDC1240D has a blue ignition wire wihich surposes will detect the start battery voltage drop and stop the BCDC from working, not sure why it does not work?
I had a similar problem with the crank battery draining even though the charger was supposed to isolate the secons battery. An auto electrician knew the problem and fixed it by adding a VSR from the crank battery. It is a sneaky problem that creeps up on you without a proper relay.
Yes, something that isn't well advertised and isn't at all mentioned by the manufacturers of the batteries either 🤔
Interesting going ons .The problems I see there that your aux battery wont receive solar input that the redarc system supplies if you use the relay. Or am I looking at it wrong Something to think about Thankyou Your always worth listening to.
Hey mate, from my understanding the Redarc will still receive solar input as the relay will only disconnect the voltage input wire from the primary battery. I'll be sure to test everything before reporting back 👍
Cheers, Nathan.
Great Vid. I am looking at a similar set up for a 200 series and wondered now that you are 12 months down the track, which way did you go? Did you install two iTECH lithiums in the 200 series? I am concerned about longevity of lithium in the engine bay. Cheers again for the vids. I'm working my way through your library! Awesome work.
Thanks mate, appreciate that.
Yes, I'm still running twin iTechWorld batteries in the engine bay. The 1420CA PRO has been installed for over a year and a half, controlled by a 70A relay which is ignition fed. The secondary battery in coming up to 12 months old and so far so good. I'll have a 12 month review very soon 👍
Nice work
Thanks mate 👍
The victron smart unit doesnt like heat at all, see posts on the LC page with the dcs twins. Recommended to be installed inside the cabin so relay seems like better idea.
Something I forgot to mention in this episode but very handy to keep in mind when considering options 👍
Thank you so much for bringing that issue up. So those who are still using AGM or Led Acid cranking batteries should not warry about this issue, right?
Yeah, but you will have other issues with old tech batteries: low RC, low CCA, low voltage, short life, over weight...
Correct, more traditional battery types won't have these issues as their voltage will decrease to the 12.7V level very quickly and therefore the Redarc will stop transferring the power.
Cheers, Nathan.
Good video, something I came across- there were too many options for a VRS for lithium. A HFD relay switch off the ignition- just seemed antiquated when stepping up to new technology lithium. Can you remove the bcdc charger and return the batteries back to a parallel system, with the Victron smart battery protect or similar to ensure adequate starting amps remain? This has the benefit of increasing the available a/hr to you. A simple mppt charge controller for solar input.
I don't know much about the difference between itech crank and deep cycle batteries but this works in another lifepo4 solution available on the market
This could be another option and I believe this is how the DCS systems work? You would have to wire to of the same batteries in parallel, meaning that you would have to use the 1420CA PRO's and they are only small 60Ah batteries. This would only give you 120Ah in total for both accessories and starting, which is probably not as much as I've got now with the single 120X battery.
Many different options to consider though.
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz ah, so the hybrid cranking battery is only 60Amp. Is two of the 120X in parallel not suitable for cranking? I dont know the stats of the 120X BMS. I thought Intervolt made a VSR which was suitable to lifepo4, or at least programmable for there voltage specs.
Good luck, looking forward to the end result.
Looking forward to the van reveal too. Keep up the good work.
@@Mouldyturnip75 Yeah, that's right. These batteries are slightly different and therefore aren't compatible to be run in parallel together. This would work however with a system like the DCS twin batteries.
I'm working through some options at the moment, I'll be sure to report back with any findings 👍
I'd say run a vsr type isolator in between the two lithium batteries and a victron bp65 off of the aux lithium to power your accessories. Should enable both batteries to charge off the alternator ( same chemistry type ) super fast providing the bms of the batteries is up to spec.
Cheers mate, I'll look into it 👍
It sounds as though the key switch relay will deprive the aux battery of the top offs that would extend it's useful deep cycle endurance. Wouldn't it be better if you could either alter the source minimum threshold in the BCDC or install the programmable relay with the minimum threshold set high enough to cut off the source battery and preserve it's charge state but still allow the top offs to occur before that condition is reached?
This is excellent information. I currently run a Redarc BCDC 1225d in my 80 series and will probably make the lithium switch in the near future. I recall the BCDC having a sensing wire for vehicles with a smart alternator. Would connecting the sense wire not tell the BCDC to stop pulling current when the vehicle is off? (The 80 has a basic "dumb" alternator, so I never bothered connecting the sense wire).
Thanks mate, glad you found this video useful 🙏
So I did not have any luck with that blue wire on the Redarc. Even connected, this only really alters a few settings and didn't solve this issue. I've recently installed a ignition fed relay and so far, so good.
Cheers, Nathan.
Good video, mate.
Just put in an ignition relay cut off
Thanks mate. 👍 That's the plan, will report back to let everyone know how it goes 👍
Cheers
Don’t use a 50 amp relay, use a smart bp65 victron lvc you can use a ign sense with this aswell. The bp65 has short circuit protection under and over voltage protection.
If you’re going with the relay option get a 100 amp relay, 50 amp is pretty close to the 40 amp that the BCDC is going to draw. Personally I would just use the victron smart battery connect with an enerdrive dc2dc charger for better control over the charge settings.
Cheers for the suggestion. I'll be interested to see how we go with the 50A, only as this was recommended by Redarc and I can only assume that they have done this a few times before, but failing this, a larger relay may be required.
Cheers, Nathan.
Craig, I don’t think the enerdrive charger is IP rated for under the bonnet use.
@@andrewdodwell it’s not, mine is in the cabin. It’s a fair trade considering it’s just so much better than the redarc.
Does the redarc have a trigger wire to sense when the car is off and isolate when it is off?
very interesting thanks,
my DCDC charger has a wire to connect to ignition circuit,
I don't use it as I don't have a "smart alternator"
would this solve the problem?
The Redarc has a blue 'ignition' wire, however this only puts the unit into low voltage mode and still won't isolate the starter battery with the vehicle is off. The relay will ensure the starter battery can't be drawn down.
Cheers.
Just a thought
Identical batteries under the bonnet. Get rid of the 12v charger and use the battery protect to load.
Possibly go to a battery with Bluetooth monitoring
Take care that you can’t connect a inverter to the Victron
This is an option, however not something that is budget friendly at this time. Maybe moving forward will be something I'll look into.
Cheers, Nathan.
Also you could have gone with the victron DC-DC 50a charger it also isolates . This would’ve save the need for a relay of any description.
I have one of those and prefer it to my previous redarc bcdc due to the customisable config however they’re not designed for under bonnet use, not an issue for me as I’ve moved my house battery out of the engine bay.
This would be ideal, but I need to be able to mount it in the engine bay, which I don't think these units are designed for?
Cheers, Nahtan.
Nathan I checked out the Redarc demo Hilux on the weekend and they had an isolator wired in with their bcdc
Cheers mate, I'll check this option out too. I'm guessing this will work in a very similar fashion to the relay on the input wire.
Cheers, Nathan.
just fit a relay in the system to only allow charging while the engine is running. 40amp relays are easy to find
Hi Mate, don’t use the Victron VSR units, I had one in my LC200 and camper and both blew up in the Simpson desert. I have now installed a Narva 140a VSR before my 50amp Redarc BCDC and I have my camper 40amp Redarc BCDC also off this and it’s been in for 18months with no problem. We also have done this same setup on 4 other landcruisers with no further issues. They are a simple solenoid that only works on voltage and they can take the heat from the engine where the Victron unit can not cope with the extra heat and are a more complex unit. It’s a DIY Mod and a must have on starting lithium’s. I hope this helps mate🍻
Cheers mate, thanks for sharing. I'm getting a few stories about these Victron units.
I'll check out those solenoids.
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz your welcome, the Narva 160amp VSR units will be good to run your charger and Andersen plug for your van off. These types of VSRs are bush proof and a set and forget unit that leaves enough power in the start battery to start up and most importantly they can handle the heat. I’ve run this now for 18months with no further issues or flat batteries. I can understand how and why you took out the lithium but if you add this unit in after your research you won’t look back. Keep up the great videos mate, always good to watch your informative and well presented videos🍻
@@nathancurran8550 For sure mate, I'll do my research. I've been given a few ideas that could work for my setup. All of these solutions have the same idea (disconnecting the input battery at certain voltages or ignition feeds). I'll be sure to report back with whichever way I decide to go and how it works 👍
Thanks mate, glad you enjoy the channel.
Cheers, Nathan.
Yep, they just are not setup for a lithium battery as a start. I have a full lithium setup in my boat including Lithium cranking battery. I started with the Redarc. But have since changed to Victron DCDC as you can set and customise the charge and cut out settings.
Yes, the Redarc is not setup for it, but easily fixed with a 70A heavy duty relay installed to trigger from ignition 👍
It’s interesting that it doesn’t have an ignition trigger wire. I have the 1240LV which hooks up to the ignition and switches the charger on and off and also switches the input over to solar.
Yes, it is a little disappointing and surprising. Maybe something they'll introduce moving forward given the increase in popularity of lithium units.
Cheers 👍
always disconnect cranking battery from auxiliary battery when car is off., the 50A relay is a good solution. otherwise you might be stranded when cranking battery doesn't crank any more. boats have manual switch for that, off, left, ride, both
For sure, I now have a 70A relay that ignition controls the Redarc charging unit and this has been working well for the past year 👍
Interesting Nathan, can I ask does your bcdc still have the ignition wire as per diagram? I guess its not connected in your case which is normally fine. You could connect it to the ignition and it should switch the charger off once ignition is off. I had a similar problem in my ranger and this solved it completely. My 200 while a different brand lithium to yours, I returned the system to parallel to get the benefit of all that capacity from 2 lithiums, but used a victrjn load disconnect to run the accessories from. Once battery capacity gets to 20% it shuts off the loads so you can start the car. Great clip as always mate. Cheers Steve
Hey mate, yes the Redarc charger has an ignition wire, however ironically it doesn't isolate the charger when the ignition is off, rather just putting the unit into a low voltage mode. I know this as I've just tried this fix unsuccessfully. It amazes me that Redarc don't have this feature in built 🤷♂️
Yes, I do like the DCS system, just a little pricey to manage a electrical system that I require at the current time.
Cheers.
So what do you run of how many batteries ?
We run 2 of these in parallel on the a 2014 200 no fancy chargers & no issues
Interesting and useful video. I’m curious why the BCDC didn’t disconnect the lithium crank battery when it fell below 12.7v…. seems odd that the BCDC would pull it down to 10.5v? Or did it isolate the aux and crank below 12.5v and was that the standby power in the Cruiser that then pulled the crank battery so low? In any case, I’m heading down this path with a solenoid. Bought one and the starter motor sounds like it is on steroids when drinking from the Lithium 👍
Hi Nathan, have you installed the isolator relay? If so have you reinstalled the Lithium battery? Being in WA where the heat is fairly high, have you had any problems running Lithium batteries under the Bonnet?
Hey mate, I've had the relay installed and no issues with this so far. I've only had the lithium starter re-installed for a short time now, but so far so good. I've had the lithium auxiliary battery installed for a linger time and this is still performing very well on and off road. No dramas with big water crossings of heat that I've experienced 👍
I know you go over this, but this problem is quite predictable by looking at the low voltage cutoff of your DC DC charger and the discharge curve of the battery.
We've been running the itech cranking battery and an enerdrive DC DC charger for about 18 months now. The original relay I installed to isolate the Enerdrive unit failed and I replaced it last week with a 100amp solid state relay from Jaycar which should last a lot longer. The Victron smart isolator doesn't seem to offer any real benefit IMO.
BTW the iTech battery failed after about 14 months and left us in a very awkward spot. Itechworld did repair it under warranty but it wasn't a particularly smooth process.
For sure, the problems can be foreseen, but something that isn't widely discussed or advertised from the manufactures and easily forgotten... or maybe it's just me 😂
Hopefully this can hope others make an informed decision.
Cheers.
Interestingly I contacted Itech today re purchasing the Lithium Cranking battery. My primary concern was heat, as my GU Patrol develops a great deal of underbonnet temps, especially when towing.
I spoke with their representative whom confirmed plenty of installs in GU Patrols, so my concerns were alleviated.
I then explained I had 3 X Itech 54 amp hour as axillary (house batteries). I was immediately asked how I managed the charge to these batteries. As soon as I mentioned Redarc BCDC I was immediately notified of this issue (the one you raised here) and that I'd need to address it if proceeding.
Good to be informed prior to purchasing.
I placed my order aware of this issue.
I just adore my Itech Lithium batteries, 1 X 120X in the caravan,
3 X 54ah house auxiliary, power never fades, yes expensive but worth the peace of mind.
AGM lasted 7.5 years each in caravan, 2 in 15 years, happy about that. AGM house auxiliary in Patrol only last approx 2.5 - 3 years each time around, but I work them out, fridge/freezer running, coffee pod M/C daily X 2 via invertor, lighting, incidental charging (phones, drone etc) expecting better from Lithium.
On the other hand, cranking batteries in Patrol only last 2.5 years, as soon as the temps fall in winter months it struggles, hence opting for Lithium this time round.
Your videos on Lithium have been truly informative, thankyou.
Hey mate, thanks for sharing your experience.
I'm glad to hear that iTechWorld were straight up when you explained your situation 👍
I'm glad you have enjoyed my lithium videos and I agree with you and your thoughts on lithium. They sure are the future of power for overlanding.
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz Just an update.
My battery arrived so installation became priority.
I elected to go with a relay to totally seperate starter from auxiliary rather than relying on voltage programmable VSR as recommended by Itech.
Now, being a creative individual I wish to share with you and fellow enthusiastic what I did.
In the past I initially seperated my batteries by means of a Redarc SBI12 (voltage sensitive relay) prior to upgrading to Redarc BCDC.
In a Redarc SBI12 you have the amp rated relay required to seperate the batteries, simply remove the voltage sensitive circuit from the relay, (3 nuts only and retain ground wire on coil by cutting wire at connector) then take a ignition activated circuit (took mine from windscreen wiper motor) to the coil positive side of the relay coil. One side of the 2 terminals go to the BCDC, the other to your new Itech Lithium.
Now you have the ignition activated relay required to seperate the BCDC charged auxiliary batteries.
Immediate fix and if you (like me) have a SBI12 spare from previous, there is no expense apart from 1.5m wire and 5mm eye connector.
Patrol has never cranked and fired so fast, excellent result.
Regards,
@@ianweal3081 Nice! Sounds like a great solution to this problem, particularly if you already have a SBI12 lying around too 👍 I have gone with a traditional relay and it seems to be working well so far, disconnects the batteries immediately after the ignition has been turned off.
@@XploringOz good one, way less expensive than programmable seperation and possibly more reliable. I wish to remain tech free of issues, but only where possible.
No alternative, Glady follow and learn tech stuff.
My Lithium stuff is performing flawlessly.
Just a quick follow up.
Took Patrol in for a tune on dyno.
The technician initially determined my Patrol had poor compression due to the cranking rate/speed prior to start up.
Had him and his fellow staff convinced my motor was in too poor a state to tune.
Once I was informed of the underlying concern I was greatly relieved to advise that cranking rate was all due to my Itech lithium 1420 pro battery.
Truck tuned up beautifully, thank goodness.
They learned of the Itech lithium cranking battery virtues as a result of my visit, love my Itech products.
i would go with the victron smart battery protect, as it's a solid state relay and i would also get the 12/24v 100amp not the 60amp ,
They do look like a great unit, something I forgot to mention in this episode is their heat concerns. These units are not ideal for under bonnet fitment and therefore might not be the best solution for my problem.
Cheers, Nathan.
Also, what to consider when swapping LiFePO4 battery into EFB or AGM battery. Taking into account nowadays SMART alternator. On normal car setup. Daily car uses. (Not off grid setup ya.)
For sure, this has to be taken into consideration and contact with a battery manufacture would point you in the right direction if this was required 👍
It surprised me that you didn’t have a suitable relay. You definitely don’t want the Aux systems drawing current from the cranking battery when the ignition is switched off.
You only need the relay when you have a Lithium starter battery, as the BCDC stops charging your auxiliary battery as soon as the alternator stops charging. ie. when the engine is not running.
I just have a circuit breaker between the starter battery and bcdc to aux battery, just open it when not needed, don’t think the victron smart disconnect can be under the bonnet
This is another solution, as long as the starter is isolated when the ignition is off then it should work well. Yes, you are correct the Victron unit doesn't like heat.
Cheers.
DCDC charger might not be required. The vehicles standard alternator should provide enough charging if the Lithium batteries are in parrallel. I use the DCS twin batteries with a Victron Smart battery protect and it works fine. Im not an electrical expert and with some advice from the DCS guys, i have put in a very solid 12v supply all under the bonnet.
Yes, this is correct. However saying that, this system is not wired in parallel and these batteries are operating independently.
Cheers, Nathan.
G’day Nathan
Just a shot,,,
Did you ordered your B esp 6 with 600W lithium on the roof or more?.
🔥 can’t wait to see in your drive way…
Get some. … nice weekend
Cheers
Hey mate, they are extremely nice vans but not something I've ordered for our lap, just a little out of our price range $$$ 💰
We should have our new van in our driveway in no more than 3 months... I've been told 🤞
I think it's good leaving it like that. You don't want to waste the good capacity of your lithium batteries. Knowing that it would discharge 60% before it drops 12.7V, I now have a new idea of dual battery setup. I'll install two lithium dual purpose batteries and wire all my accessories via a VSR. But the itech one is only 60AH. By searching this solution, I found that DCS already had this kind of system. While they use a Victron smart protector, which cost over $200. a VSR only cost $20.
Awesome, that sounds like a much more cost effective way to make this solution work 👍
Just be mindful that the Victron unit cannot be mounted under bonnet as it will overhead and cut out. However if you mount the Victron unit in-cab, the cabling becomes a nightmare, as it has to go in-cab then back out to the BCDC.....
Thanks mate, the heat concerns was something I forgot to mention in this episode and I agree routing the wiring in and out of the cab would be very annoying and counter intuitive.
Cheers.
The DCDC charger isn't always the best idea. Please talk to me about the DCS system I have had in since 2019. ASPW also made a video about the DCDC issue you faced.
Yes, it might not be the optimal solution, but I simply can't afford of justify the expense of the DCS system. Although I agree a very reliable and effective solution, something I can't move onto just yet.
I should be able to fix this issue with a very simple and easy fix.
Cheers, Nathan.
The Victron DC to DC Smart Chargers have had programmable voltage values for ages. I have however a question for you, how are you actually charging the lithium cranking battery? Is it being charged straight from the alternator? If so, I thought this was not advisable, as lithium can put huge demands on the alternator that generally causes it to overheat and fail at low RPM. What has actually being done to this iTechWorld battery to prevent this issue?
This is why the victron unit + two batteries in the engine bay is the way to go. Combine both, set disconnect at 20% SOC and can always start the vehicle. 2x 100AH lithium under bonnet gives you 160ah useable and saves heaps of weight. The BCDC's are useless for lithium, can just use the alternator to charge and take advantage of 100 amps charging across both while driving. The only replacement function needed from bcdc was it's mppt regulator.
For sure, this is another way to manage the system, however these iTechWorld batteries aren't quite up to the job yet. the 120X aux battery isn't rated for cranking and the 1420 CA PRO is only 60ah in capacity so 120ah isn't much. Maybe something I'll look into in the future.
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz yeah. I won’t name names since your sponsored but there is a kit that can do this getting popular and it’s reviewing well. It is expensive tho
@@Snook_ Yeah mate, I agree that the DCS systems are a great option and very likely a higher quality system, however I'm interested to see how these 'budget' options go long term as you would know the alternative is expensive and hard to justify for an electrical system like mine.
Great Video got the same issue. So basically just install a relay in between the start battery and the redarc that’s it?
That's correct. Hopefully... 🤞
@@XploringOz thanks mate!
Victron Orion mate. Fully adjustable via Bluetooth
Cheers mate, I'll look into it 👍
If you isolate the bcc’d charger when the ignition turns off does that also turn off the bcc’d charger so any solar input would not be registered?
I was thinking the Victorian smart isolator mounted under the bonnet put at the front where the temps don’t get as high
Solar input is a different wire to the DC input so shouldn't be a problem.
I'm under the belief that isolating the BCDC charger won't effect the solar input as it's a different component of the charger. If I were to use a relay on the input wire, this will only inform the charger that there is not input battery and should still operate as per normal on solar.
Cheers 👍
I have the Renogy dcdc charger, with ignition off it cannot charge the auxiliary battery, doesn't the Redarc have this function?
Unfortunately the Redarc does not have this feature… at the moment. No doubt they will implement some design changes as lithium becomes more and more popular. Redarc do have a blue ignition wire, however this only activates a low voltage mode rather than a cut off.
Cheers, Nathan.
I installed a 100amp heavy duty relay with a manual switch in the cabin, so i can isolate when i roll into camp or not using the second battery and when i do water crossings etc…
That's not a bad idea at all, thanks for sharing 👍
Hey Nathan, what about if the Li battery is the auxiliary and a Pb battery is the cranking? Would the relay still be needed?
Hey mate, negative. This combination will work fine and is what I'm currently running pending sorting out a long term solution.
Cheers 👍
I am pretty sure that the BCDC also has a wire that connects to a circuit that only charged when the engine on. My understanding is that the BCDC should not do any charging unless the engine is running. I assume you do not have this connected properly or am I confusing things?
Hey mate, the BCDC does have a blue ignition wire, however this puts the unit into a low voltage mode and won't complete isolate the charger when the engine is off... I know this as I've recently tried it unsuccessfully 🤦♂️
Cheers, Nathan 👍
I looked at the red arc manual and it seems to be updated. My system I simply connected the blue wire . Once the ignition was turned off the bcdc would disconnect from primary battery after a few minutes “meaning stop charging “ . Not sure why they changed it . I never had the main battery drain . If I left ignition on yes I would have. Edit just to add with the blue wire connected once ignition turned off the bcdc would stay connected until the main battery voltage dropped slightly. I tested this with turning the car lights on with ignition off . A few seconds later you could see the redarc stop charging second battery. It looks like looking at the latest manual they have lowered the cut out voltage .
Yes, I have also noticed this in their manuals too. I'm not quite sure why Redarc didn't suggest this method when calling them. I'm going to try this solution too, just to see how it goes and compares to other fixes 👍
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz It will only work if you have a older redarc BCDC as the new ones they have dropped the cutout voltage hence they redarc will not disconnect until main battery is just about dead. You may have the older BCDC if so disregard . Going to look at the Ineos next week sth of Perth should be fun.
@@Susieandchris Yes, I have been playing around with the blue ignition wire and agree, it only enters low voltage mode and doesn't disconnect the system. I don't understand why Redarc wouldn't include this feature 🤷♂
Awesome, certainly looks like an interesting vehicle 👍
I have a similar set up in my LC200 with lithium deep cycle and a cranking one also.
What relay did you end up going for and how did you wire it between the cranking; the BCDC and the aux batt ?
Hey mate, so I used a heavy duty 70A relay to isolate the batteries. This is wired to control the Redarc unit and is ignition fed. So whenever the ignition is switched off, so is power to the Redarc BCDC1240 and therefore it can't charge the auxiliary, essentially isolating the battery 👍
Its been permanently installed for about 1.5yrs now with no issues.
God stuff. I have a RedArc 1225D BCDC and also a lithium auxiliary so already had the BCDC in Lithium charging mode. So when you say isolating the batteries and ignition fed, where did you wire in the relay? I have a SBI12 relay or isolator that I could use but just keen to know where exactly is the right place to do it. And do we need to connect the blue cable coming from BCDC?
@@marcelomatos6977 So I wired this relay on the power wire, powering the redarc dcdc charger. Once activated, the redarc simply has no power and doesn’t turn on.
The ignition feed was simply sourced from an ignition wire from the factory fuse block.
Once the engine was turned off, the relay switched and cut power to the redarc 👍
@@XploringOz great mate much appreciated. Can I ask final question: what brand and model relay did you go for ?
So I just went with a Narva 70A 4 PIN relay in my vehicle 👍 @@marcelomatos6977
Interesting video. I fitted a Redarc SBi12 to ensure a disconnect from the starter battery when turned off. I’m also running a redarc BCDC charger. Piggy backed off an ignition fuse and have not any issues. Have a look at those. Might be a solution
That sounds like another great solution. As long as that starter battery is isolated when the ignition is off it should work well 👍
Battery isolator to protect starter battery ,
Redarc LV with ignition wire
This is another option, for sure 👍
What about the charging characteristics of the alternator and the lithium battery? How do you get the alternator to maximise the charge for the lithium cranking battery?
Hey mate, there is no adjustment required on the alternator. The BMS within the lithium battery helps to monitor and correct the power required for charge.
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz ahh, well there ya go. Thanks for that. Learnt something 🤓
so would you say that this 1420 pro/non pro battery is ample for . . .
*heavy 4wd winching
*river crossing (getting submerged, possibly stuck at moments).
*Being killed overnight from 12v gear ?
*Able to be paired as a primary and/or secondary with any other AGM or LEAD battery?
Noob question: Would i be right in saying that if you had the 1420 as a secondary, and a standard as the primary.
You wouldn't need a high amp relay to kill the link to the BCDC.
But would you would still get the cranking capacity from the secondary?
Hey mate, so I've done all those things with both the lithiums batteries are they are still going strong.
I wouldn't be using the 120X battery as a cranking though as I don't believe the BMS will allow that discharge rate.