@@lrngMathcom would listen to jazz and just explore the world of drumming with websites like drumeo and that guy. Also try to play jazz licks and fills could be really progressive.
I teach ~45 students on a weekly basis and describing these techniques to them has always been a challenge because I hadn't yet thought of a solid set of exercises to differentiate. Subscribed instantly.
Hi Jay. I found your video really informative. I have been playing drums for a living for 20 plus years and i have used all 3 of these techniques at one time or another. I also use fingers/finger control as well. Here is something i thought you would be interested in. If i have to play 16ths on the bell of the ride cymbal i was finding it a little hard to control the stick on the bell. The stick sometimes would bounce away from the bell. After thinking about this and experimenting what i did was instead of angling my ride cymbal i made the ride cymbal flat and lowered it a bit to where it almost resembled a hi hat. Sure enough when i went to play 16ths on the ride and bell i didn't have any problem controlling the stick. The reason why i did this is i didn't have a problem playing one handed 16ths on the hi hat and i think playing down into the cymbal made my arm relax. I figured if it works on the hats why not the ride? Songs like Tarkus from Emerson, Lake and Palmer and Green Grass and high times by the Outlaws have quick constant 16th note ride cymbal. On Green Grass after the 2nd verse there is a long 8th note ride cymbal pattern but then there is a long consistent 16th note ride pattern. By making this adjustment i have no problem playing these patterns. Thank you again for posting this video up and i would like your opinion on this. Anthony L.
The In Tune Show ...Hey Anthony. Great comment. And I am all about changing your set up to accommodate your form. All to often I see drummers just set up drums and cymbals in awkward position because they either don’t think about it... or worse... they think it looks cool. If you have found a way to position your ride cymbal to work better for your form then that is the key to any technique. Also If you are using a lot of rebound, then a flatter surface will always be more responsive. Good for you man! I’d love to check out your playing if you have any vids.
Hey! I almost didn’t recognize you by face! It is crazy how much time has flown by since your “Spain” video. I discovered that video at a time when I was really trying to develop some of the concepts that you demonstrated so well in that performance (clean, open, fluid, rolls across the kit being one of the obvious ones from that particular video). That must have been at least a decade ago, right? Crazy.... Anyway, great lesson man!! Appreciate you sharing your insight and advice.
I'm glad I found your channel!!. Drums...either you got it..or you don't. Developing proper playing techniques is sooo very crucial to learning and understanding drums and the drum set. I'm a hobby drummer that discovered he has taught himself incorrectly over time. Music has always been easy for me.....its when life gets involved....thats when it becomes difficult. The drums have always centered me and brought me back. Discovering vids like yours inspires n drives me to practice correctly!!!!. Tyvm!!!!!...am a sub now and look forward to more vids!!👍👍
Thanks for checking out the video and for your kind words. I truly appreciate it and welcome to the TDA community! If you wanna delve deeper... I have a really cool challenge on my website, that I think would really help you, in your situation (being self-taught)... and it's totally free. To check it out, go to thedrummersalmanac.com and join the mailing list, you'll get instant access to the challenge. It's a 10-video test, should take you around 20 minutes to complete... and it will really help you get on the right track. Let me know if you decide to take it and what you think.
That's a complicated answer... I actually have a whole lesson on the Natural germanic form... but it was only available to my subscribers on my main email list. I will release that lesson series again if you wanna get on my email list at thedrummersalmanac.com... but in a nutshell, you want to start with a natural form... not necessarily a comfortable form. As far as fingers, I am a fan of developing each fulcrum against the thumb individually. Index+thumb middle+thumb ring+thumb and pinky+thumb... I also think of each muscle group in your fingers, wrists and arms as gears like in a car or bicycle. Each group is utilized for different things and you should be able to move across them fluidly.
thedrummersalmanac that would be great. I would like to see that particular lesson. I have been drumming for a long time and just kind of lived with some flaws in my playing. Now I am at the point of “screw it” learn to do it right. In particular is my left hand with double strokes. I can get a nice rebounded roll, but when it comes to a nice controlled roll without relying so much on rebound, the wheels fall off. The same can be said for very fast single stroke rolls..... I like what your saying about the finger control and I have been specifically working on left hand finger dexterity and coordination with the thumb. Tougher than I thought. Enjoy your teaching style and enthusiasm. Thanks very much.
Thank you thank you thank you for this video!! I'm a new drummer. The way you explain things here will definitely help me work through some techniques that will make me a better drummer! ps: this is the first video I've watched from you. I am now a subscriber. You did a great job for a person who relies on the visuals. :D
Would Moeller 2 be similar technique to the shank tip method? It is used by Todd Sucherman and others. The pumping motion seems similar. Thanks, this was great overview.
Michael Amira Ya know... I have never heard of the shank tip method... I will be sure to check it out ad get back to you. Thanks for the comment... I love learning new stuff!
I remember a Jeff Porcaro video where he mentions "snap ups' I'm not really sure what they are technically, but I'm thinking that this may be a tool he used to achieve his silky smooth one hand 16ths.. Any ideas??
Cheektowga I think he was referring to a pull/out... hard to say with out seeing the context... but when you play an open double and accent the second stroke, especially at a faster speed, I’ve heard that referred to as a snap up. It definitely in the same family as the push pull... just with a small squeeze on the pull.
@@Thedrummersalmanac Thanks! Maybe I'll try to find the clip (although it's very short and he's on the hi-hats at the time) It was from his "Star Licks" video I believe,, Thanks for the other 16th note information, I'm going to give it a shot..
@@Thedrummersalmanac Here is the Jeff Porcaro video I am referencing: it starts at around 6:40 on the video: (Snap Ups) th-cam.com/video/agunxOB8ub4/w-d-xo.html
Cheektowga ok I see... what he is calling snap ups... I teach as a formal up stroke. It’s the idea of starting from a low position... tapping the surface with a very light unaccented stroke, then snapping you wrist to a full position (90 degrees) ...this sets you up for an accent on the next stroke.
I play drums for 2 years now, bad thing was that i took lessons after a year playing... i play blues and jazz mostly and songs like "Stratus" , "Sultans of Swing" , or any song by Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin really take a life out of you. I never used a metronome, but i can keep up the tempo, point is if you have time and you love the instrument you have to push your self to the limits, my hand were bloody before i learnd to play "Stratus" to the note. And i am a guitarist, so i think it was easier for me to learn drums
As I mentioned... if you've developed the endurance and you've taken it a step further and incorporated it into your normal performing situations... you can achieve some crazy speed!
@@masteryourmind2760 Lmao... yup. that is the hope... and I'm sure some would sell their souls. But alas, it just takes consistency, diligence, and hard work.
What’s the bpm for Tom Sawyer?? As I’m asking I’m realizing it’s not pure 16ths the whole song yet I’m curious how many measures and bpm? Great video btw!!
bill nipp Ya know... I could never play with any jewelry on my hand my whole life because of that very issue... but after I got married I don’t even seem to notice the wedding ring. I guess that means I picked the right girl.
Wow, I always considered myself a shit drummer because I couldn't ever go passed 80 BPM. I did those exercises every day this week and my 90 BPM is almost effortless!
I like the way you put the lesson together. Todd Sucherman explains his approach in terms of a in-and-out motion. This could be another avenue to explore. The lines between this techniques are not at all sharp, meaning you can easily morph from one to the other even between sections of the same song.
Absolutely... there is never just one way... take from as many people as you can find and make your own way that works for you. Being able to shift gears is crucial.
I thought it was a good lesson - I've not really seen many lessons that compare the different techniques on the hi-hat, and how they could be applied in different musical settings. Often people will just demonstrate how to play something just using their preferred technique. I'm interested how these different techniques translate to shuffle patterns on the hi-hat. I've seen different people apply so many different techniques (particularly when it comes to the half time shuffle) and each one gives a subtle difference in terms of dynamics and gets a different lope out of it (as Jeff Porcaro would put it). I've never personally liked using push/pull technique on the hi-hat as it requires some rebound to work - so generally has to be played on the top of the hi-hat where there is more rebound. This gives a lighter touch, and doesn't create the same sort of sound like digging in to the side of the hi-hat does. I prefer to use a 'Moeller two' technique (as you put it), which becomes very subtle and condensed into the wrist as it speeds up - it doesn't need as much rebound to work.
Thanks for checking out the video, Ben. The shuffle obviously has a different feel since you are swinging the 8th notes... but it does employ a lot of the same techniques. For example you can do a pull-pull shuffle if the tempo is really fast... but the more common way to do it is the pull out with the wrist. Maybe I can address that for you in a future lesson.
Deth Meddl That’s why most of them don’t make any progress in developing technique during tours. The music is static so they can’t vary in tempo and exercises. Most of the skill developing by pro’s happens off stage, in the remaining 1400 minutes of the day.
Thanks for checking out the video. I am curious to see some of your results... pop in from time to time and let me know how it's going. I'd love to hear about it.
I am a beginner, I have been playing for not even 6 months. I'm on day 4 of doing this exercise twice a day and it's unbelievable how effective this is. I'm only playing american grip and aim for consistency and endurance, I can't go fast at all but in 4 days I added 10bpm (from 70 to 80) and the consistency of the stroke skyrocketed. This exercise is really giving me the time to focus on how the left hand feels and getting it up to speed to the right hand. Amazing!
Awesome! It is a game changer for sure... It just makes me a little nervous when a beginner talks about American grip. It’s easy to do that wrong. Please just watch that form and stay relaxed. If you have a private teacher show him/her to make sure your form is good to avoid injury. Let me know how it goes. I’d love to hear about it!
@@Thedrummersalmanac yes, I go to a teacher once a week so I have someone who keeps an eye on my form. I also played the piano for many years so I can spot tension in arms, shoulders and wrists. Out of curiosity what grip would you suggest to learn first? Thank you so much
@@teidenzero I would recommend the Natural Germanic form... then a slow switch to American over time. I still do my pad work in the German form. Generally Americanized on the kit.
Wow Jamie... I could do a whole video around that question. Of course, toms have less rebound, so you need to be more physical when you move to a tom... and the bigger the tom, the more physical you need to be. Overall, things like Stick Control exercises from George L Stone's book, are great for developing that, because it focuses on getting you in and out of each sticking "feeling." As far as doubles on the toms... practicing pull/outs to really strengthen your doubles will help with the toms. Once you have that, you should be able to execute fast doubles on any service regardless of bounce.
Great video..I'll use it to help develop 16th notes with one hand. I have a CD by King Crimson..'King Crimson USA' which is a live album recorded around 2002. On one tune: 'Asbury Park': the drummer Bill Bruford is playing a steady 16th note ostinato on closed hi-hats and cross-stick backbeats on 2 and 4, which means he's playing the hi-hat 16ths with one hand. Tempo is about 92 bpm. I've had trouble keeping up steady 16ths with one hand at that tempo, so I'll try following the exercises on this video to see if that helps. Thanks great video.
Thanks for sharing!... that's a great example. I was talking to another guy on this thread... He mentioned "I Keep forgettin' " by Michael McDonald (Jeff Porcaro on drums) ...My "tune" back in the day was 'Kiss Of Life' by Sade' About 95 on the metronome. I love how we all have "That one song."
Great great lesson Jay ... bringing up some vital techniques. Your quote "The more technique you have the more tools you have in your tool shed to express yourself comfortably" ... is Awesome. One of my all time favorite grooves growing up as a young teen was "I Keep forgettin' " by Michael McDonald .. the drummer was the great Jeff Porcaro. In the groove he plays one handed 16th notes throughout. It's nowhere near 120 bpm .. it's only 95 bpm but so smooth.
Thanks John... 95bpm is nothing to balk at... I used to hold down the groove to "Kiss Of Life" by Sade'... to practice endurance.. which is also at 95, I believe. It's a workout. especially lefty!
@@johndiraimo1444 Totally, I think my whole young education about learning to work with a rhythm section came from Sade's band. I could do a whole lesson series just on 'Sweetest taboo' and 'No Ordinary Love.'
Tom Sawyer is not that fast and Neil is definitely using a combination of motion and physicality... he didn't really study Moeller until a little later in his career... But once he did... I'm sure it felt even better. 👍🏻
He muscles it out on the album and in the earlier years and it creates a different vibe than the way he played it later in their career, the feel is slower after his Freddy studies
Good question. Great answer. I really like that you talked about and demonstrated the difference in sound & feel between the techniques. I've watched a lot of drum tutorial videos on hand/stick technique and you're the first one to talk about it. And it's pretty important if you're a working drummer playing different styles of music.
Thanks for your kind words, Mike... that means the world to me. Yeah, with technique, you always have to think of the end result, which is "how will this feel when I'm performing it live?" So many players are so wrapped up in technique that guilty of not doing that.
@@Thedrummersalmanac - Yes and I think it's b'cuz many players are only interested in technique for the purpose of playing faster. This is the 1st video of yours I've seen and you quickly & easily earned a like & subscribe!
Well explained video. Todd Sucherman teaches a variation on the push/pull that's more of an in/out. He describes it as the motion of shooting pool. I guess it all depends on which method gives you the sound you're looking for in a given situation.
Absolutely. I love Todd's playing... and his teachings. Every person I've seen do the push/pull seems to do it slightly differently. I say, look at everyone's take and then do whatever you have to do to make it work for you...
i cam never get that push pull technique down and it bugs me. lots of people have told me to let the stock bounce when playing 16th notes and never knew what they meant cuz there was never any "bounce" from my sticks
You could cheat, this means on each after beat you skip the hihat pulse. In a live situation you won’t hear it but it doesn ‘t look nice. Grts from Belgium
Sure... if I'm understanding correctly... Are you suggesting playing the hat with your foot on the downbeats and only filling in the E & A in between the downbeats? That's definitely a solution if you can get it to sound consistent.
Hi Jay, I mean just skip one 16 th note with your right hand at the hats. Only allowed from 200 bpm and after giving Fenichel a LIKE. You’re very good teacher and drummer.
my compliments towards you, very clear and good explanation, very , very, very good, even i am playing drums for about 45 years i still learn a lot of things on youtube, this one is really a good clear one, thank you very much dude
Can somebody help me the Moeller pumping motion is it better to use an index fulcrum or the middle finger folk from I find you have more bounce with the middle finger more control with the index could somebody just let me know what's better are more common
mike r ...I don’t think either is more common. It’s more of a preference thing. I personally default to the middle finger for most technique, but there are situations where I still use the index. If you are looking for it to work better with one over the other, that’s really a matter of practice. I’ve seen guys do it great with both fulcrums.
Starboy by The Weeknd, I Feel it Coming by The Weeknd, Jealous by Nick Jonas, One More Night by Maroon 5, Kissing My Love by Bill Withers, Nice For What by Drake, California Love by 2Pac, Be Kind by Halsey, All That She Wants by Ace of Base, In My Feelings by Drake, Can’t Stop by RHCP, Sunflower by Post Malone, Tom Sawyer by Rush, Easier by 5 Seconds of Summer, I Just Wanna Shine by Fitz & The Tantrums, Only Human by Jonas Brothers, Best Friend by Saweetie, Break Up With Your Girlfriend I’m Bored by Ariana Grande, Bye Bye Bye by NSync, The Boy is Mine by Brandy & Monica, Heat Waves by Glass Animals, Reminder by The Weeknd, Price On My Head by The Weeknd, Intentions by Justin Bieber, Yummy by Justin Bieber, God’s Plan by Drake, Lane Boy by 21 Pilots, Ride by 21 Pilots, Royals by Lorde, Paper Planes by MIA, Umbrella by Rihanna, Come Undone by Duran Duran, Mine by Bazzi, Side to Side by Ariana Grande, Positions by Ariana Grande, 7 Rings by Ariana Grande, God Is A Woman by Ariana Grande, Sicko Mode by Travis Scott, Hotline Bling by Drake, Harder to Breathe by Maroon 5, The Bones by Maren Morris, Young Dumb & Broke by Khalid, Without Me by Halsey, Lucid Dreams by Juice Wrld, Eyes Without a Face by Billy Idol, & Use Me by Bill Withers are all the songs I can think of that have 16th note grooves that can either be done with 2 handed or 1 handed.
Very helpful. Thank you that you stress that some styles come with physical power. You only know If you have to play against those 4x12s. And these are not beat measures 😅
Great lesson Jay. I kind of lost track of you till this popped up. Another valuable in depth lesson. Back when I learned the Nellie groove “Hot in Herre”, I still think you had the best teaching system going and I worked on every one of those lessons. Always useful information , well done.
buddyrichable1 Wow that video is going back a while. Thank much the kind words and for tracking me down again! Stay in touch... I play on rolling out tons of new lessons.
Great lesson and comparative elaboration. Reminder to all who practice.... don’t forget the BREATHE. May sound silly, but I’ve learned that lesson. This video illustrates how a great passes on knowledge without ego. Well done indeed. Skillfully presented.
Thanks Deano... and Breathing is one of those things, that a lot of drummers forget to do. Holding your breath comes from tension... and deprives your muscles of oxygen while you are playing... which brings more tension. Good point! Thanks again for being here.
i know who can do 140+ BPM with one hand for about 2-3 or even 5 minutes. his name is Ramon Montagner of Brazil. he right now practices with 2 drumsticks with one hand, but his right hand alone, he can easily do 160-180 BPM while he's practically asleep. he's i think about twice as fast as JoJo Mayer. See him on TH-cam. I ain't lying. He's beyond amazing and incredible. My opinion. Ramon Montagner, push & pull technique labeled "Crazy Speed"
pnsmexico I love Ramon’s playing. I subscribe to his channel. He doesn’t have enough subs in my opinion. Truly amazing player. He has some of the most developed push/pull I have ever seen. I’d love to pick his brain about that. I still don’t think he could muscle out 16ths with one hand at 140bpm. With push/pull... easily... but just muscling is a very different thing. If you find a vid of him doing something like that, I’d love to see and be happy to be proven wrong... because he is a beast!
@@Thedrummersalmanac right on. I hyperbolized to get someone's attention and get him some views, but i didnt know it'd be the channel's author himself! Yeah, i knew exactly what you said, but didnt want to under credit Ramon's incredible push/pull & double stick ability. And you sir, you are a great teacher and so sincere! Thank you for such informative and honest video! I'll be watching all of your vids!
finally, yt recommendation knows what i really need
It’s weird that the TH-cam gods decided to start pushing this vid. In any case... so glad it landed on your page! Welcome.
Hey all... I added an "endurance chart" download link in the description... for those of you who were requesting that.
been drumming over 50 years,,thanks for making sense and not showing off
Chuckie Drums thanks for checking it out!
I agree. This teacher is so humble. And I'm not even a drummer hahahah
I died
Any advice ? I'm been drumming for almost one year,.
@@lrngMathcom would listen to jazz and just explore the world of drumming with websites like drumeo and that guy. Also try to play jazz licks and fills could be really progressive.
I teach ~45 students on a weekly basis and describing these techniques to them has always been a challenge because I hadn't yet thought of a solid set of exercises to differentiate. Subscribed instantly.
Stephen Utterback so glad I could help! Steal it, use it, teach it ...make it your own, my brotha.
A great lesson that breaks down the various methods available for playing 16th notes with one hand - FAST! Nice work.
ShKott Rendezvous I’m glad you dug it! Thanks for the comment.
This dude is good....wish my teachers were this good 50 yrs ago and had utube.
Sus
You have by far taken to number 1 spot for me as the best teacher on youtube.
Hi Jay. I found your video really informative. I have been playing drums for a living for 20 plus years and i have used all 3 of these techniques at one time or another. I also use fingers/finger control as well. Here is something i thought you would be interested in. If i have to play 16ths on the bell of the ride cymbal i was finding it a little hard to control the stick on the bell. The stick sometimes would bounce away from the bell. After thinking about this and experimenting what i did was instead of angling my ride cymbal i made the ride cymbal flat and lowered it a bit to where it almost resembled a hi hat. Sure enough when i went to play 16ths on the ride and bell i didn't have any problem controlling the stick. The reason why i did this is i didn't have a problem playing one handed 16ths on the hi hat and i think playing down into the cymbal made my arm relax. I figured if it works on the hats why not the ride? Songs like Tarkus from Emerson, Lake and Palmer and Green Grass and high times by the Outlaws have quick constant 16th note ride cymbal. On Green Grass after the 2nd verse there is a long 8th note ride cymbal pattern but then there is a long consistent 16th note ride pattern.
By making this adjustment i have no problem playing these patterns. Thank you again for posting this video up and i would like your opinion on this. Anthony L.
The In Tune Show ...Hey Anthony. Great comment. And I am all about changing your set up to accommodate your form. All to often I see drummers just set up drums and cymbals in awkward position because they either don’t think about it... or worse... they think it looks cool. If you have found a way to position your ride cymbal to work better for your form then that is the key to any technique. Also If you are using a lot of rebound, then a flatter surface will always be more responsive. Good for you man! I’d love to check out your playing if you have any vids.
Good stuff! Can't wait to finally play blast beats hehee
TheSunMoon -get to it... you’ll be blazing before you know it.
So much to learn. Me that is. I've played for a number of years and still learn something new every time I watch one of these videos.
Hey! I almost didn’t recognize you by face! It is crazy how much time has flown by since your “Spain” video. I discovered that video at a time when I was really trying to develop some of the concepts that you demonstrated so well in that performance (clean, open, fluid, rolls across the kit being one of the obvious ones from that particular video). That must have been at least a decade ago, right? Crazy....
Anyway, great lesson man!! Appreciate you sharing your insight and advice.
Yup that video was done in 2006! ...it is crazy how time flies!!! Thanks for staying with me all these years.
I'm glad I found your channel!!. Drums...either you got it..or you don't. Developing proper playing techniques is sooo very crucial to learning and understanding drums and the drum set. I'm a hobby drummer that discovered he has taught himself incorrectly over time. Music has always been easy for me.....its when life gets involved....thats when it becomes difficult. The drums have always centered me and brought me back. Discovering vids like yours inspires n drives me to practice correctly!!!!.
Tyvm!!!!!...am a sub now and look forward to more vids!!👍👍
Thanks for checking out the video and for your kind words. I truly appreciate it and welcome to the TDA community! If you wanna delve deeper... I have a really cool challenge on my website, that I think would really help you, in your situation (being self-taught)... and it's totally free. To check it out, go to thedrummersalmanac.com and join the mailing list, you'll get instant access to the challenge. It's a 10-video test, should take you around 20 minutes to complete... and it will really help you get on the right track. Let me know if you decide to take it and what you think.
Great lesson
Thank you!
Very good teacher first time I've seen him
Thanks James... and welcome to the channel.
Amazing
Thank you! Glad you dug it.
Excelente aula!!! Apesar da diferença linguística, ainda assim consegui entender tudo. Obrigado Professor!
I hope this comes out right... Você é muito bem-vindo! Obrigado por conferir o vídeo!
I would be interested to hear your personal philosophy on finger/ hand position. Especially concerning speed. Thanks
That's a complicated answer... I actually have a whole lesson on the Natural germanic form... but it was only available to my subscribers on my main email list. I will release that lesson series again if you wanna get on my email list at thedrummersalmanac.com... but in a nutshell, you want to start with a natural form... not necessarily a comfortable form. As far as fingers, I am a fan of developing each fulcrum against the thumb individually. Index+thumb middle+thumb ring+thumb and pinky+thumb... I also think of each muscle group in your fingers, wrists and arms as gears like in a car or bicycle. Each group is utilized for different things and you should be able to move across them fluidly.
thedrummersalmanac that would be great. I would like to see that particular lesson. I have been drumming for a long time and just kind of lived with some flaws in my playing. Now I am at the point of “screw it” learn to do it right. In particular is my left hand with double strokes. I can get a nice rebounded roll, but when it comes to a nice controlled roll without relying so much on rebound, the wheels fall off. The same can be said for very fast single stroke rolls..... I like what your saying about the finger control and I have been specifically working on left hand finger dexterity and coordination with the thumb. Tougher than I thought. Enjoy your teaching style and enthusiasm. Thanks very much.
Great job
Thank you thank you thank you for this video!! I'm a new drummer. The way you explain things here will definitely help me work through some techniques that will make me a better drummer!
ps: this is the first video I've watched from you. I am now a subscriber. You did a great job for a person who relies on the visuals. :D
NA R thank you so much for watching and for subbing... and welcome to the community! I so glad it helped you.
Good Stuff. Thanks brother
This is really helpful! I’m trying to play Bob Dylan’s Dignity - there’s a version with sixteenths that is played one handed. It’s a good workout!
I wasn't familiar so checked it out. It's actually a 6 feel, so he's playing 16th note triplets. Sort of a shuffle feel. Very interesting.
Alwsys a great lesson here . Thank you ..
Good stuff!
Thanks!
Good video mr Pesci!
Joe Pesci is actually an amazing Jazz vocalist!
@@Thedrummersalmanac I didn't know that. Just thought your voice sounded alike. Great video by the way. Really enjoyed it!
nice explain
Thank you, Guillermo!
I’m just trying to get better at drumming and this guy just tell me to quit outta nowhere😂😂
Would Moeller 2 be similar technique to the shank tip method? It is used by Todd Sucherman and others. The pumping motion seems similar.
Thanks, this was great overview.
Michael Amira Ya know... I have never heard of the shank tip method... I will be sure to check it out ad get back to you. Thanks for the comment... I love learning new stuff!
@@Thedrummersalmanac look up Styx dinner, Todd Sucherman he explains it very well.
Michael Amira I will certainly check that out... maybe it’ll lead to another video.
Thank you 🙏🏻
And thank you for checking it out.
Groovy.
Have you checked Anderson paak's tiny desk show?
That guy is incredible! Onehand 16ths while singing like an angel. Awesome drummer.
I will certainly have to check that out
I remember a Jeff Porcaro video where he mentions "snap ups' I'm not really sure what they are technically, but I'm thinking that this may be a tool he used to achieve his silky smooth one hand 16ths.. Any ideas??
Cheektowga I think he was referring to a pull/out... hard to say with out seeing the context... but when you play an open double and accent the second stroke, especially at a faster speed, I’ve heard that referred to as a snap up. It definitely in the same family as the push pull... just with a small squeeze on the pull.
@@Thedrummersalmanac Thanks! Maybe I'll try to find the clip (although it's very short and he's on the hi-hats at the time) It was from his "Star Licks" video I believe,, Thanks for the other 16th note information, I'm going to give it a shot..
@@Thedrummersalmanac Here is the Jeff Porcaro video I am referencing: it starts at around 6:40 on the video: (Snap Ups) th-cam.com/video/agunxOB8ub4/w-d-xo.html
Cheektowga cool... I’ll take a look
Cheektowga ok I see... what he is calling snap ups... I teach as a formal up stroke. It’s the idea of starting from a low position... tapping the surface with a very light unaccented stroke, then snapping you wrist to a full position (90 degrees) ...this sets you up for an accent on the next stroke.
Such a great video. I practice on an edrum kit, with a rubber hi hat, does that make the Moeller technique harder to practice ?
I can’t even do this exercise in technique 1 at 100bpm. Is that normal?
Excellent vid. Thanks.
Thank you!!! glad you liked it.
I play drums for 2 years now, bad thing was that i took lessons after a year playing... i play blues and jazz mostly and songs like "Stratus" , "Sultans of Swing" , or any song by Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin really take a life out of you. I never used a metronome, but i can keep up the tempo, point is if you have time and you love the instrument you have to push your self to the limits, my hand were bloody before i learnd to play "Stratus" to the note. And i am a guitarist, so i think it was easier for me to learn drums
No doubt... Knowing one instrument will certainly help in developing another. I would still love to learn guitar. Sadly, I have not put in the time.
Great instruction! You've earned my sub.
Thanks Don... and welcome to the community!
Can you use the endurance chart for speed? if so how?
That's exactly how you use it... to develop speed. The stronger your muscles are.. the faster you can go while being relaxed.
Great
Nice explication. Greetings from italy
Thanks! I always wanted to visit.
Dominator from Dark Funeral does this with ease a complete gig.
As I mentioned... if you've developed the endurance and you've taken it a step further and incorporated it into your normal performing situations... you can achieve some crazy speed!
@@Thedrummersalmanac Indeed, still there are some drummers out there where I just have to think there must be a way to sell my soul! xD
@@masteryourmind2760 Lmao... yup. that is the hope... and I'm sure some would sell their souls. But alas, it just takes consistency, diligence, and hard work.
5:09 Marky Ramone
great video.
ratta tat tat!
bangbetter.xxx
Richard Santorsola Thanks Rich!
@@Thedrummersalmanac - i subscribed
I got in ICU THEN CCU THEN THE ER
What’s the bpm for Tom Sawyer?? As I’m asking I’m realizing it’s not pure 16ths the whole song yet I’m curious how many measures and bpm? Great video btw!!
Hey David, Thanks for checking it out! I got it at about 88bpm. And a good chunk of Tom Sawyer has those 16th notes... so it is a great example.
This reminds me to Jeff Porcaro❤
I love Jeff
Great stuff!! 11/10 instant sub :D
Thank you, Manuel and welcome to the TDA community!
I came here cuz i wanted to play some ramones!
i hear your ring hitting the sticks....
bill nipp Ya know... I could never play with any jewelry on my hand my whole life because of that very issue... but after I got married I don’t even seem to notice the wedding ring. I guess that means I picked the right girl.
@@Thedrummersalmanac I have to take mine off because I would get pinched
bill nipp that’s always been my issue with any jewelry... you are not alone
I lost my focus on that goat lmao . I cant
lol
I always just tend to muscle it out brother.... i have pretty crappy technique ....
Well... there's always room to grow my friend
Y repeat the first 40sec ?
Repetition is the mother of skill
this is the technique i can never get down
First...Know what to do ...than create a plan to practice it... You'll get there Trev
I don't even know why I'm waching this, I don't play drums
JimMasterGaming maybe it’s a sign that you should start!
Yeah start with drumming its great
Coaches don't play
There is a drummer inside of you wanting to be released.
@@markdemell3717 @thedrummersalmanac maybe you're right! Who knows...
Wow, I always considered myself a shit drummer because I couldn't ever go passed 80 BPM. I did those exercises every day this week and my 90 BPM is almost effortless!
Nice!!! Yeah, those exercises are life-changing. Glad I could help you 😉 Feel free to spread the love!
Ian Paice has a pretty mean one handed roll too.
Reck Tumz he sure does
90,000 views! Thank you everyone... I am truly humbled...
I like the way you put the lesson together. Todd Sucherman explains his approach in terms of a in-and-out motion. This could be another avenue to explore. The lines between this techniques are not at all sharp, meaning you can easily morph from one to the other even between sections of the same song.
Absolutely... there is never just one way... take from as many people as you can find and make your own way that works for you. Being able to shift gears is crucial.
I thought it was a good lesson - I've not really seen many lessons that compare the different techniques on the hi-hat, and how they could be applied in different musical settings. Often people will just demonstrate how to play something just using their preferred technique. I'm interested how these different techniques translate to shuffle patterns on the hi-hat. I've seen different people apply so many different techniques (particularly when it comes to the half time shuffle) and each one gives a subtle difference in terms of dynamics and gets a different lope out of it (as Jeff Porcaro would put it). I've never personally liked using push/pull technique on the hi-hat as it requires some rebound to work - so generally has to be played on the top of the hi-hat where there is more rebound. This gives a lighter touch, and doesn't create the same sort of sound like digging in to the side of the hi-hat does. I prefer to use a 'Moeller two' technique (as you put it), which becomes very subtle and condensed into the wrist as it speeds up - it doesn't need as much rebound to work.
Thanks for checking out the video, Ben. The shuffle obviously has a different feel since you are swinging the 8th notes... but it does employ a lot of the same techniques. For example you can do a pull-pull shuffle if the tempo is really fast... but the more common way to do it is the pull out with the wrist. Maybe I can address that for you in a future lesson.
Death Metal drummers do what you talk everyday for 40 mins on tour
Deth Meddl That’s why most of them don’t make any progress in developing technique during tours. The music is static so they can’t vary in tempo and exercises. Most of the skill developing by pro’s happens off stage, in the remaining 1400 minutes of the day.
Agree - Nils Fjellstrom being a stellar example of this
Ramones did it for 32 songs, at an hour about with no breaks almost everyday for 22 years
But what about us mere mortals?
@@rackaid14 hell yeah dude
This is a unique lesson. Learned some new practice ideas!
Thanks for checking out the video. I am curious to see some of your results... pop in from time to time and let me know how it's going. I'd love to hear about it.
Really nice instruction, no wasted self indulgent staging at all, just really generous. Thanks!!!
Lucas Rooney Im glad you dug it, Lucas. Thanks for checking it out.
I am a beginner, I have been playing for not even 6 months. I'm on day 4 of doing this exercise twice a day and it's unbelievable how effective this is. I'm only playing american grip and aim for consistency and endurance, I can't go fast at all but in 4 days I added 10bpm (from 70 to 80) and the consistency of the stroke skyrocketed. This exercise is really giving me the time to focus on how the left hand feels and getting it up to speed to the right hand. Amazing!
Awesome! It is a game changer for sure... It just makes me a little nervous when a beginner talks about American grip. It’s easy to do that wrong. Please just watch that form and stay relaxed. If you have a private teacher show him/her to make sure your form is good to avoid injury. Let me know how it goes. I’d love to hear about it!
@@Thedrummersalmanac yes, I go to a teacher once a week so I have someone who keeps an eye on my form. I also played the piano for many years so I can spot tension in arms, shoulders and wrists. Out of curiosity what grip would you suggest to learn first? Thank you so much
@@teidenzero I would recommend the Natural Germanic form... then a slow switch to American over time. I still do my pad work in the German form. Generally Americanized on the kit.
@@Thedrummersalmanac thank you
This comment is now 3 years old! Do you still play drums?
i dont even play drums but i love 16th notes on the hihat. Too much groove with them rnb vibez
What method do you use for single or double stroke fills around the toms? Thanks in advance
Wow Jamie... I could do a whole video around that question. Of course, toms have less rebound, so you need to be more physical when you move to a tom... and the bigger the tom, the more physical you need to be. Overall, things like Stick Control exercises from George L Stone's book, are great for developing that, because it focuses on getting you in and out of each sticking "feeling." As far as doubles on the toms... practicing pull/outs to really strengthen your doubles will help with the toms. Once you have that, you should be able to execute fast doubles on any service regardless of bounce.
I saw push pull technique. immediately i like =)
Janez Bond it’s a great technique... I still have a ling way to go with mine.
@@Thedrummersalmanac U took time and wrote a reply on "silly" comment? Hats off man. True dude..
@@janezbond4136 lol... I try to reply to everyone. ...and looking at that reply, apparently, I have a "ling" way to go with my typing skills.
Great video..I'll use it to help develop 16th notes with one hand. I have a CD by King Crimson..'King Crimson USA' which is a live album recorded around 2002. On one tune: 'Asbury Park': the drummer Bill Bruford is playing a steady 16th note ostinato on closed hi-hats and cross-stick backbeats on 2 and 4, which means he's playing the hi-hat 16ths with one hand. Tempo is about 92 bpm. I've had trouble keeping up steady 16ths with one hand at that tempo, so I'll try following the exercises on this video to see if that helps. Thanks great video.
Thanks for sharing!... that's a great example. I was talking to another guy on this thread... He mentioned "I Keep forgettin' " by Michael McDonald (Jeff Porcaro on drums) ...My "tune" back in the day was 'Kiss Of Life' by Sade' About 95 on the metronome. I love how we all have "That one song."
Marky Ramone played 16th notes for the Ramones entire sets i believe
Great great lesson Jay ... bringing up some vital techniques. Your quote "The more technique you have the more tools you have in your tool shed to express yourself comfortably" ... is Awesome.
One of my all time favorite grooves growing up as a young teen was "I Keep forgettin' " by Michael McDonald .. the drummer was the great Jeff Porcaro. In the groove he plays one handed 16th notes throughout. It's nowhere near 120 bpm .. it's only 95 bpm but so smooth.
Thanks John... 95bpm is nothing to balk at... I used to hold down the groove to "Kiss Of Life" by Sade'... to practice endurance.. which is also at 95, I believe. It's a workout. especially lefty!
@@Thedrummersalmanac .... that's a great tune to woodshed with Jay. She has a bunch of similar tunes in her repertoire that would work as well.
@@johndiraimo1444 Totally, I think my whole young education about learning to work with a rhythm section came from Sade's band. I could do a whole lesson series just on 'Sweetest taboo' and 'No Ordinary Love.'
Sooooo, pretty much 1st step to playing Tom Sawyer? lol
Tom Sawyer is not that fast and Neil is definitely using a combination of motion and physicality... he didn't really study Moeller until a little later in his career... But once he did... I'm sure it felt even better. 👍🏻
He muscles it out on the album and in the earlier years and it creates a different vibe than the way he played it later in their career, the feel is slower after his Freddy studies
Good question. Great answer. I really like that you talked about and demonstrated the difference in sound & feel between the techniques. I've watched a lot of drum tutorial videos on hand/stick technique and you're the first one to talk about it.
And it's pretty important if you're a working drummer playing different styles of music.
Thanks for your kind words, Mike... that means the world to me. Yeah, with technique, you always have to think of the end result, which is "how will this feel when I'm performing it live?" So many players are so wrapped up in technique that guilty of not doing that.
@@Thedrummersalmanac - Yes and I think it's b'cuz many players are only interested in technique for the purpose of playing faster.
This is the 1st video of yours I've seen and you quickly & easily earned a like & subscribe!
Mike Connors ... I truly appreciate that. Welcome to the community!
Got in ICU THEN CCU THEN THE ER AND EMERGENCY ROOM THEY ARE GIVEING ME A OXYGEN
Well explained video. Todd Sucherman teaches a variation on the push/pull that's more of an in/out. He describes it as the motion of shooting pool. I guess it all depends on which method gives you the sound you're looking for in a given situation.
Absolutely. I love Todd's playing... and his teachings. Every person I've seen do the push/pull seems to do it slightly differently. I say, look at everyone's take and then do whatever you have to do to make it work for you...
Great lesson/ideas! I remember getting frustrated trying to build up my speed when I first started drumming....practice, practice and more practice :)
That what it is... brick by brick...
great video and great channel😀👏 greetings from Norway 🇳🇴
Per-einar Skog thanks so much for the comment. I appreciate that!
i cam never get that push pull technique down and it bugs me. lots of people have told me to let the stock bounce when playing 16th notes and never knew what they meant cuz there was never any "bounce" from my sticks
Shit sticks
It's tough... i still work on it... Everyone has a little different technique with it.
Omg I really love this video! Great job and keep up the good work! :)
Thanks,Freya... I just checked out your channel. Good stuff... I need to start getting in shape again.
Exactly what i needed
practice practice practice
...and more practice!
You could cheat, this means on each after beat you skip the hihat pulse. In a live situation you won’t hear it but it doesn ‘t look nice. Grts from Belgium
Sure... if I'm understanding correctly... Are you suggesting playing the hat with your foot on the downbeats and only filling in the E & A in between the downbeats? That's definitely a solution if you can get it to sound consistent.
Hi Jay, I mean just skip one 16 th note with your right hand at the hats. Only allowed from 200 bpm and after giving Fenichel a LIKE. You’re very good teacher and drummer.
Bob Schoepen jr thanks for following, Bob... looking forward to more great comments from you.🙏
Wow...thank you nice lesson!!!!
Carlos Diaz thank for checking it out, Carlos
Started playing with Jerry Lee back in 1964. Memphis. All our friends are either dead or sober. Moeller
my compliments towards you, very clear and good explanation, very , very, very good, even i am playing drums for about 45 years i still learn a lot of things on youtube, this one is really a good clear one, thank you very much dude
Thank you very much! I am so glad you dug the lesson. Thanks for letting me know.
Can somebody help me the Moeller pumping motion is it better to use an index fulcrum or the middle finger folk from I find you have more bounce with the middle finger more control with the index could somebody just let me know what's better are more common
mike r ...I don’t think either is more common. It’s more of a preference thing. I personally default to the middle finger for most technique, but there are situations where I still use the index. If you are looking for it to work better with one over the other, that’s really a matter of practice. I’ve seen guys do it great with both fulcrums.
@@Thedrummersalmanac alright thank you so much I'm going to practice both ways as I've been doing thank you for all the videos bro
I know there are tons of ways to develop those fast 16th notes... Do you have a favorite way?... Let's talk about it.
No but it took me 2 seconds to realize that you drew the thumbnail
@@JimmysDonuts Well, I drew on it...
Very nice lesson. Don't know why anyone would give this a thumbs down.
Me neither!!! Especially since the dude in the video is so good looking. lol... Thanks for checking it out.
I will be having my first drum workshop this coming nov at our church. This is a big help for me!!! Thankyou!!!!
The introduction first minute showed mastered thee techniques….very motivating. Thanks.
Great breakdown of the various techniques and a good process on how to get results.
Thanks David. Glad you dug it.
Starboy by The Weeknd, I Feel it Coming by The Weeknd, Jealous by Nick Jonas, One More Night by Maroon 5, Kissing My Love by Bill Withers, Nice For What by Drake, California Love by 2Pac, Be Kind by Halsey, All That She Wants by Ace of Base, In My Feelings by Drake, Can’t Stop by RHCP, Sunflower by Post Malone, Tom Sawyer by Rush, Easier by 5 Seconds of Summer, I Just Wanna Shine by Fitz & The Tantrums, Only Human by Jonas Brothers, Best Friend by Saweetie, Break Up With Your Girlfriend I’m Bored by Ariana Grande, Bye Bye Bye by NSync, The Boy is Mine by Brandy & Monica, Heat Waves by Glass Animals, Reminder by The Weeknd, Price On My Head by The Weeknd, Intentions by Justin Bieber, Yummy by Justin Bieber, God’s Plan by Drake, Lane Boy by 21 Pilots, Ride by 21 Pilots, Royals by Lorde, Paper Planes by MIA, Umbrella by Rihanna, Come Undone by Duran Duran, Mine by Bazzi, Side to Side by Ariana Grande, Positions by Ariana Grande, 7 Rings by Ariana Grande, God Is A Woman by Ariana Grande, Sicko Mode by Travis Scott, Hotline Bling by Drake, Harder to Breathe by Maroon 5, The Bones by Maren Morris, Young Dumb & Broke by Khalid, Without Me by Halsey, Lucid Dreams by Juice Wrld, Eyes Without a Face by Billy Idol, & Use Me by Bill Withers are all the songs I can think of that have 16th note grooves that can either be done with 2 handed or 1 handed.
Very helpful.
Thank you that you stress that some styles come with physical power. You only know If you have to play against those 4x12s. And these are not beat measures 😅
Great lesson Jay. I kind of lost track of you till this popped up. Another valuable in depth lesson. Back when I learned the Nellie groove “Hot in Herre”, I still think you had the best teaching system going and I worked on every one of those lessons. Always useful information , well done.
buddyrichable1 Wow that video is going back a while. Thank much the kind words and for tracking me down again! Stay in touch... I play on rolling out tons of new lessons.
Well, this helps with playing Chris Slade's version of Let there be rock live at Donington lol.
Don't play 16th notes just playing with yourself good buddy good buddy 👍
Hi! Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I have a question. What technique would you use for Georgy Porgy by Toto?
im started in 30 year old bro , so dont give up
Age is just a number! 👍🏻
Now how do you do the fast 32nd notes in-between those 16ths like jojo? I can't find any information on it!!
Thanks for posting. Googled this because my guitar player wants me to learn some punk!
Great lesson and comparative elaboration. Reminder to all who practice.... don’t forget the BREATHE. May sound silly, but I’ve learned that lesson. This video illustrates how a great passes on knowledge without ego. Well done indeed. Skillfully presented.
Thanks Deano... and Breathing is one of those things, that a lot of drummers forget to do. Holding your breath comes from tension... and deprives your muscles of oxygen while you are playing... which brings more tension. Good point! Thanks again for being here.
I had a brother who forgot to breath... I'm an only child now
@@ancientmonkey5327 damn... that's dedication if you suffocate yourself while playing drums...
@@Thedrummersalmanac hahh
Tom-Tom Tom agreed... it makes you subconsciously tense up.
I prefer to muscle it out.... because I'm not good at the other ways
Nothing wrong with that.
the death metal drummers use push pull and they practice for minutes up to 130-150 or as they call it 280/300
i know who can do 140+ BPM with one hand for about 2-3 or even 5 minutes. his name is Ramon Montagner of Brazil. he right now practices with 2 drumsticks with one hand, but his right hand alone, he can easily do 160-180 BPM while he's practically asleep. he's i think about twice as fast as JoJo Mayer. See him on TH-cam. I ain't lying. He's beyond amazing and incredible. My opinion. Ramon Montagner, push & pull technique labeled "Crazy Speed"
pnsmexico I love Ramon’s playing. I subscribe to his channel. He doesn’t have enough subs in my opinion. Truly amazing player. He has some of the most developed push/pull I have ever seen. I’d love to pick his brain about that. I still don’t think he could muscle out 16ths with one hand at 140bpm. With push/pull... easily... but just muscling is a very different thing. If you find a vid of him doing something like that, I’d love to see and be happy to be proven wrong... because he is a beast!
@@Thedrummersalmanac right on. I hyperbolized to get someone's attention and get him some views, but i didnt know it'd be the channel's author himself! Yeah, i knew exactly what you said, but didnt want to under credit Ramon's incredible push/pull & double stick ability. And you sir, you are a great teacher and so sincere! Thank you for such informative and honest video! I'll be watching all of your vids!
pnsmexico thank you... look forward to hearing more from you.