If we can agree that SMGs play best up close and personal, I think when it comes to the term "optimal range," although the game definition refers to damage drop off, the greater discussion should really be more about shots landed. What do you think?
It's "Outsider" all day for me when it comes to my preferred SMG builds. That talent fixes the two major weak points of SMGs, IMO. I slap it on a 9MM (non-tac, more bullets vs more DMG) Vector and go to town. If I'm running in a group with a bunch of Oreo builds, they can't even tell I'm running something different until the end when the stats pop up. That said, SMGs shine more in linear play (ie missions) rather than open world CPs where you can more easily get surrounded from extreme ranges. (And the CMMG Banshee is a bit underrated for what is essentially an SMG with FAMAS stats and more DMG per bullet.)
@@SaltyOldBaldurian yeah quite unfortunate. With the power creep I fear about the DLC. Perhaps expertise will be applied to mods and attachments. Who knows.
Before the Ouroboros came out, my absolute favorite SMG was the Saftey Distance. I really think ppl sleep on that SMG, it's very good & carried me for so long.
Banshee / Grudge was my top SMG before I got the Oreo. I still really love it. I do use Dark Winter and Apartment for diff builds too tho, mostly just for diff feels from time to time. Good video tho bro!
I made a Backfire (No Bleed) Umbra build and that SMG melts targets! I'm still playing around with the optional 2 other pieces including the Coyote mask and gear with SMG bonus damage. But it is just fun and hard hitting. That said, I know it's an Exotic so a bit off topic. I do run the Apartment quite often, again not an exotic but a more difficult named weapon to acquire.
I used the grudge for so long and couldn't understand why it was outperforming assault rifles and all the other smgs when on paper it shouldnt be. So to your point it comes down to you as player and real world application because we all have different play styles. Thats why i always look at build videos as a foundation and then tweak it from there to match my play style. cool video thanks
I am always surprised when players state that they are not using their secondary weapons. I routinely use both...choosing my weapons based on the distance to my target. Almost every weapon has an optimal range and for the SMG it is very short. There are going to be times you find yourself at 30+ yards from a target and an SMG is not going to be the best weapon. Switching to a longer range weapon is faster than closing the distance.
Imo the vectors are no longer that great. The best thing about the high firerate is the momentary stagger effect that enables you to burst down most enemies within 3 meters before they have time to recover and start shooting back. Vectors lack the base damage for this so you'll end up in a reload animation while being shot at by a not quite dead enemy. Edit: What makes the Grudge so useful despite its lower fire rate is not only the base damage but what it allows you to add to your build in places that would otherwise be dedicated to crit stats. Headshot damage and weapon handling are good options but so are built in named item attributes like dth , dta, and dtoc. (The group buff adds up to a huge increase as well.) You could even forego grupo for belstone or palisade without nerfing yourself. So yes , the grudge is #1 non exotic smg.
The banshee as a primary for the crit chance and eagle bearer secondary has been my go to for dps builds for years. I rarely use the banshee and mostly just the eagle bearer in game though😆 Need to get a group together to farm the new exotic smg. Thanks for the video!
Im a NBBP guy. Have been since Div1. One, I chose the Vector 45 SBR. At range I use an AR. Particularly the F2000/Shield Splinterer. Never watched a build video on it but came to find out a lot of people like to run what I do. 4 piece Styker with 3 piece Brazos. Checks all my boxes. Mag size, fire rate, and damage. Depending on how I feel I want to play its either 1.4, 1.6, or 2.0 million Armor. Its all subjective and depends on you and your playstyle. Although the Banshee is a very nice alternative.
I am running a build with “The Grudge” (named Banshee) and Lullably that utilized Hunter’s Fury. By rushing in, using sandman on one enemy to disorient the group and then switching to Grudge to take the rest out and getting a Critical Hit Damage buff from Perfect Vindictive.
I run the dark winter smg or cold relations with the hunter fury set and pear it with the Scorpio shotgun. I used to main lady death but as soon as I got dark winter. I had to switch to that since it’s a rare drop
I have two lvl 25 expertise Banshee builds. 1 with Killer and the other with In Sync. I use the In Sync with an assualt drone, 3 Striker, 2 Sokolov with Obliterate and Ninja the most. It shreds.
I'm always glad to pass on Banshee propaganda lol I have 2 of them expertised to level 15 with different talents, and my main with strained and higher expertise put into it To me this is the best non exotic SMG because like you said more bullets hit the targets, and it's the only one that can down heroic named enemies with a single mag. I use at least 4 blue cores with expertise in the gear when solo - memento included - because I don't like to use shields
Thank you so much for this video. Using real gameplay vs paper is everything. I'm a scrub player so often use far more blues and defense stuff in my offensive builds than most. To gauge what is best for me I use how many cp's did I clear in a half hour, or how did it feel clearing 5 cp's my time to clear in total (including any deaths, or hiding behind cover using armor kits). For me its never all red red red best. Having you mention and focus on these other factors vs just paper deeps numbers is perfect.
The first time I used this SMG was after eliminating Keener in NY, it was the named SMG that he drops when you kill him, since then I use that submachine gun, it is my favorite.
Tactical Ump 45 for me,even with that slow rpm,but it hits hard. Almost 1.5 mil with hunter s fury,sokolov obliterate,ceska backpack with vigilance, everything god rolled on gear, red cores. Shd level 930.
Messenger backpack + 2 pieces of Brazos + 3 pieces of either Umbra or Striker and you get + 50 % magazine size, that's what I use with my banshee, it gives me nearly 80 rounds (more if i add magazine size attribute), it's really fun and powerful.
Interesting cause banshee is my favorite right now as well. I thought i just got used to it because “The Grudge” was the first decent weapon to drop for me as a returning player. I haven’t played since d2 launch forever ago. I always liked the aug smg for the reason you stated at the end of the video. If the enemy starts moving to fast where your shots aren’t hitting it’s easier not to waste all your bullets and the aug is accurate from distance but it’s just a little too slow. The banshee is like the perfect middle ground. Fast enough but not too fast. Reasonable optimal range. I got the blueprint from like the 3rd control point I did at level 3 so it was the main one I crafted talents on. I just kept coming back to it. I have been looking for the community dips for gun sheet that always used to be around for division 1. I see there is a sheet that lists all equipment but it just doesn’t seem to be the same comparison sheet I was used to. Anyone have a link?
The best SMG in the game is the one that best fits your own unique play style for the content and mission situation. For my play style I really like using "The Apartment" SMG with Perfectively Measured Talent when not using a exotic SMG.
banshee with outsider is hard to beat for my playstyle..i have tried them all and actualy used a mpx for a long time.but after getting a god rolled banshee with outsider..i decided to try it out. Absolute beam machine..i run it with elmo and allot of time in most situations i will use the banshee more than the elmo because i dont have to swap to get the mid range targets and even longer range targets sometimes..i used safety distance for a long time and its right there with the banshee but the banshee seems to be more accurate for me.
@@TuxedoBandido i never put any thought into it for a long time as it was not a damage talent, but i got a god rolled safety distance from a named cache and tried it out and it was kind of a game changer being able to engage targets beyond the typical 15 to 20 meter smg optimal range.
My current favorite SMGs in the game. Dark Winter Chatterbox Banshee OMG is it called? Saftey Distance The exotic one (not obroburus) gives u bleed effect.
There is alot to discuss here. If exotic ourobors is the best. If you can make it work Backfire can hit highest dps in the game. If you can also make Chatterbox work at max stack it deals up to 3-6m more dps than Ourobors. Ourobors basicly the easiest one to make it work. For legendarys Safety Distance has an insane range and acuracy. If its used right way Swapcain easly out damages every single smg in the game including ouroboros. But not Backfire toght nothing can out damage backfire unless its one shot sniper. Darkwinter is also a great smg but it doesnt have any range. We can also add Grudge as a contender if we are using hunters furry but honestly i have never try it this one before.
All solid points I can chew on for sure. There really aren’t too many bad smgs surely. The Chatterbox I did try with the changes early Season, but it was hit and miss most of the time. But it’s surely a beast when it’s on no doubt.
Backfire is actually not that good. You are forced to invest in hazard protection and bleed protection. You need 90% for it to not backfire on you (no pun intended). After all is said and done. At max stacks it does around the same damage as a dark winter build does (tested with striker , coyote build). It’s just more upkeep and constant visual affects when bleed procs on self that’s very annoying. Not to mention you lose all stacks if you don’t shoot someone for some seconds. Which then you are losing damage. If it had stack decay instead like striker it might be worth it. But losing all stacks at the same time sucks. I also find it inconsistent. I feel like I lose stacks sometimes even tho I’m still shooting
@@GB2G Its not optimal to use but still it has highest dps. And it works better with armor regen and extra armor perks. Still there is only one extra armor and armor regen that can supress the bleed and its on hearthbreaker. Even with all the down sides i was able to reach 1.3m crits on body .
@@gokyuzu1484 I used it with a striker build and had a couple of bleed protections on there. It was at like 88% it wasn’t optimized. From what I’ve heard 90% is what I need. If I had it optimized I could theoretically fully negate the bleed. But yeah I had chc/chd attributes for the rest and then the strikers bonus obviously. Haven’t tried it with any other gear set yet. I was also able to hit like 1.3M to the body as well if I remember correctly. I could achieve similar results with my other builds with less upkeep, which is why I ultimately didn’t continue using the build.
@@GB2G Hearthbreaker gives me %200 extra armor and constantly regenerats %4 of that extra armor per second. Backfire gives me %0.5 armor damage per second. So i still get %3.5 extra armor regen per sec. And only condition for this armor regen to work is hiting enemy thats litterly all. Other than that after reaching max stack i will have 3m armor till combat ends. This is the only realyable way to use Backfire. You can try having hazard protections but you realize you are making low damage. You can try and relying on bloodsucker or matador but the moment your team mate steals the kills you will find your self on the ground. But once you have a heartbreaker build you wont be needing backfire anyway.
Yeah there's definitely a big user factor on how SMGs behave. If you're using an SMG on a more tanky build like heartbreaker for instance you can afford to use those smaller mags on a weapon like Dark Winter to stay up longer. Ultimately anyone can make anything work if they have the skill and knowledge to apply its advantages to the situation.
One of the BEST vids to clear the fog on smg effectiveness... "Time to clear" is the best quantifier... ABSOLUTELY the easiest way to rate a total build....
I recommend looking at iKia"s SMG video. He spreadsheets with damage talents and tends to recommend Banshee with Fasthands. It's a long video but worth watching and he has also done AR and LMG videos.
I was lucky enough to find a fully maxed out, god rolled Banshee with full smg damage, crit chance, and damage to targets out of cover. All I had to do was change the talent.
Just gone through my 64 maxed out load outs 😬. (That’s not a ‘flex’ it’s a measure of how much I love this game) I have one SMG build 🥴. That’s a 100% haz pro Backfire build. And it works. But I do run the Vector SBR .45 with FastHands as backup on a few. I’ve been hoarding SMGs just in case. So gonna break out the old Banshee and see how it goes
as far as exotics, i'd use the "lady death" before the ouroboros. the best smg in the game is the banshee; but the police UMP and "dark winter" are damn good too.
@@madangel71 agreed. and there are people saying the ouro is the best smg and i LMAO at that - the talent sucks and the gun is so inaccurate it's worthless outside 7-8 meters. getting that gun was a huge disappointment (to me) . for exotic SMGs, lady death is SO much better. however, using a maxed-out banshee with "optimist" or "close and personal" as the talent makes that the best overall SMG. the only thing i don't like about the banshee is i can't put the +10% crit damage rail on it when using firewall specialization - and i use it (firewall) most of the time in PvE. thanks for replying - nice to see some people actually check out the guns.
It bothers me that for the entire time this gun has been available in the game, Massive have still not fixed how the extended magazine mods are the wrong angle and clip through the gun.
I pretty much rely on the Grown Great. Not much better than it that isn't an Ouroboros. Best balance of fire rate, mag size, reload speed and stopping power, and all without all those mod slots.
All us OG's get it. There's a difference between what gear is best on paper vs what I'll bring with me when my life depends on it. Thanks for keeping it real and not being one of those guys that just shoves Excel spreadsheets in our faces.......
Tactical reload is when you reload your magazine during a lull in the action so you have a full mag again even though the other mag might have a few left in it. The auto reload happens when your magazine is completely empty and the bolt locks back. In gun guy terms this is an emergency reload, because you can't operate your weapon until you have reloaded.
i just can't use the banshee because the magazine is not properly placed on the 3d model of the gun and it makes me want to scratch my brain... once you notice it you can't go back, sorry not sorry ! Also since you are a youtuber can you please harrass the devs into fixing this ? worth a try.
@@azteka6103 I disagree. I have 4k hours into the game, and I have not encountered anything that kills quicker than the oreo except for something that can one shot such as a shotty or mmr
@@mikerzisu9508 Try again...i have almost same amount of hours and i downed plenty of oroes with a simple build like furry with lady, and that's with obliterate, let alone glasscannon/vigilence, the only one ive struggle to down were Eagles and horns.
If we can agree that SMGs play best up close and personal, I think when it comes to the term "optimal range," although the game definition refers to damage drop off, the greater discussion should really be more about shots landed. What do you think?
It's "Outsider" all day for me when it comes to my preferred SMG builds. That talent fixes the two major weak points of SMGs, IMO. I slap it on a 9MM (non-tac, more bullets vs more DMG) Vector and go to town. If I'm running in a group with a bunch of Oreo builds, they can't even tell I'm running something different until the end when the stats pop up. That said, SMGs shine more in linear play (ie missions) rather than open world CPs where you can more easily get surrounded from extreme ranges. (And the CMMG Banshee is a bit underrated for what is essentially an SMG with FAMAS stats and more DMG per bullet.)
@@SaltyOldBaldurianIMHO optimal range should scale with expertise
@@devinthierault but it doesn't.
Try it on the m1928. Amazing talent combo.
@@SaltyOldBaldurian yeah quite unfortunate. With the power creep I fear about the DLC. Perhaps expertise will be applied to mods and attachments. Who knows.
Finally someone that actually understands the difference between sheet DPS and ACTUAL DPS.
Before the Ouroboros came out, my absolute favorite SMG was the Saftey Distance. I really think ppl sleep on that SMG, it's very good & carried me for so long.
Banshee / Grudge was my top SMG before I got the Oreo. I still really love it. I do use Dark Winter and Apartment for diff builds too tho, mostly just for diff feels from time to time. Good video tho bro!
I made a Backfire (No Bleed) Umbra build and that SMG melts targets! I'm still playing around with the optional 2 other pieces including the Coyote mask and gear with SMG bonus damage. But it is just fun and hard hitting. That said, I know it's an Exotic so a bit off topic. I do run the Apartment quite often, again not an exotic but a more difficult named weapon to acquire.
I used the grudge for so long and couldn't understand why it was outperforming assault rifles and all the other smgs when on paper it shouldnt be. So to your point it comes down to you as player and real world application because we all have different play styles. Thats why i always look at build videos as a foundation and then tweak it from there to match my play style. cool video thanks
Not a big SMG fan in Div2, used to like the SIG MPX , but lately enjoying the MP7 alot. It's a slept on SMG
It is slept on, cause the devs won't add a mag slot to the gun so everyone hates it.
i love it too and the named version, especially paired w brazos 💪🏼🙌🏼
Mp7 is top tier after the last update. I run mine with optimist and upgraded it to 25. Love it
I am always surprised when players state that they are not using their secondary weapons. I routinely use both...choosing my weapons based on the distance to my target. Almost every weapon has an optimal range and for the SMG it is very short. There are going to be times you find yourself at 30+ yards from a target and an SMG is not going to be the best weapon. Switching to a longer range weapon is faster than closing the distance.
Im the same I don't see a point in. Using smg for targets at AR range it makes no sense ino
Always been a fan of the UMP but only as a secondary because of its slow Rate of fire but hits hard
With strained is a beast
Been using the Banshee for over a year with a rate of fire roll & with striker..absolute BEAST
Imo the vectors are no longer that great. The best thing about the high firerate is the momentary stagger effect that enables you to burst down most enemies within 3 meters before they have time to recover and start shooting back. Vectors lack the base damage for this so you'll end up in a reload animation while being shot at by a not quite dead enemy.
Edit: What makes the Grudge so useful despite its lower fire rate is not only the base damage but what it allows you to add to your build in places that would otherwise be dedicated to crit stats. Headshot damage and weapon handling are good options but so are built in named item attributes like dth , dta, and dtoc. (The group buff adds up to a huge increase as well.) You could even forego grupo for belstone or palisade without nerfing yourself. So yes , the grudge is #1 non exotic smg.
Swap chain and dark winter are up there too, not to mention a normal mp7 with optimist and normal banshee with either strained or killer
The banshee as a primary for the crit chance and eagle bearer secondary has been my go to for dps builds for years. I rarely use the banshee and mostly just the eagle bearer in game though😆
Need to get a group together to farm the new exotic smg.
Thanks for the video!
Im a NBBP guy. Have been since Div1. One, I chose the Vector 45 SBR. At range I use an AR. Particularly the F2000/Shield Splinterer. Never watched a build video on it but came to find out a lot of people like to run what I do. 4 piece Styker with 3 piece Brazos. Checks all my boxes. Mag size, fire rate, and damage. Depending on how I feel I want to play its either 1.4, 1.6, or 2.0 million Armor. Its all subjective and depends on you and your playstyle. Although the Banshee is a very nice alternative.
I actually love that build. I think it’s the build of the Season.
I have an Ouroborus, expertise at 15. I also like The Dark Winter. Got it to drop from a named cache and I love it
I am running a build with “The Grudge” (named Banshee) and Lullably that utilized Hunter’s Fury. By rushing in, using sandman on one enemy to disorient the group and then switching to Grudge to take the rest out and getting a Critical Hit Damage buff from Perfect Vindictive.
MP7 is a winner if you can find one with DTOC and add expertise, it has 100 more RPM than shield splinter and more damage
Tux at it again!
Its not the best smg, its THE smg. Personal favorite of mine. Used vindictive on it for years...ur welcome 🤗 GG
In hard and challenge mode i use either:
- the Chatterbox with Hunters fury (no reloads).
- or the Lady Death with 50% extra rounds (for speedruns).
I run the dark winter smg or cold relations with the hunter fury set and pear it with the Scorpio shotgun. I used to main lady death but as soon as I got dark winter. I had to switch to that since it’s a rare drop
I have two lvl 25 expertise Banshee builds. 1 with Killer and the other with In Sync. I use the In Sync with an assualt drone, 3 Striker, 2 Sokolov with Obliterate and Ninja the most. It shreds.
I'm always glad to pass on Banshee propaganda lol I have 2 of them expertised to level 15 with different talents, and my main with strained and higher expertise put into it
To me this is the best non exotic SMG because like you said more bullets hit the targets, and it's the only one that can down heroic named enemies with a single mag. I use at least 4 blue cores with expertise in the gear when solo - memento included - because I don't like to use shields
Hey, it’s you! The man of the hour. Nicely done sir, bringing things to topic.
My favorite will always be the Dark Winter. It just feels right and melts the target with reliable performance.
Thank you so much for this video. Using real gameplay vs paper is everything. I'm a scrub player so often use far more blues and defense stuff in my offensive builds than most. To gauge what is best for me I use how many cp's did I clear in a half hour, or how did it feel clearing 5 cp's my time to clear in total (including any deaths, or hiding behind cover using armor kits). For me its never all red red red best. Having you mention and focus on these other factors vs just paper deeps numbers is perfect.
That’s how I test too. I do three control points timed. It’s never all reds in heroic cps unless it’s a sniper. Even then not necessary
The first time I used this SMG was after eliminating Keener in NY, it was the named SMG that he drops when you kill him, since then I use that submachine gun, it is my favorite.
Tactical Ump 45 for me,even with that slow rpm,but it hits hard. Almost 1.5 mil with hunter s fury,sokolov obliterate,ceska backpack with vigilance, everything god rolled on gear, red cores. Shd level 930.
Try a sokolov chest with intimidate and a grupo backpack with bloodsucker
I agree! My tactical UMP with strain is reliable and comfy to use for when i casually play
I love the banshee as well.. I run mine with Measured with Scorpio as my secondary for the hunters fury build. 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Try it with strained
Messenger backpack + 2 pieces of Brazos + 3 pieces of either Umbra or Striker and you get + 50 % magazine size, that's what I use with my banshee, it gives me nearly 80 rounds (more if i add magazine size attribute), it's really fun and powerful.
Interesting cause banshee is my favorite right now as well. I thought i just got used to it because “The Grudge” was the first decent weapon to drop for me as a returning player. I haven’t played since d2 launch forever ago. I always liked the aug smg for the reason you stated at the end of the video. If the enemy starts moving to fast where your shots aren’t hitting it’s easier not to waste all your bullets and the aug is accurate from distance but it’s just a little too slow. The banshee is like the perfect middle ground. Fast enough but not too fast. Reasonable optimal range. I got the blueprint from like the 3rd control point I did at level 3 so it was the main one I crafted talents on. I just kept coming back to it. I have been looking for the community dips for gun sheet that always used to be around for division 1. I see there is a sheet that lists all equipment but it just doesn’t seem to be the same comparison sheet I was used to. Anyone have a link?
100%. No doubt the banshee rips. For me the vector just shoots like butter, feels nicer to me and allows me to keep more shots on target.
The best SMG in the game is the one that best fits your own unique play style for the content and mission situation. For my play style I really like using "The Apartment" SMG with Perfectively Measured Talent when not using a exotic SMG.
banshee with outsider is hard to beat for my playstyle..i have tried them all and actualy used a mpx for a long time.but after getting a god rolled banshee with outsider..i decided to try it out. Absolute beam machine..i run it with elmo and allot of time in most situations i will use the banshee more than the elmo because i dont have to swap to get the mid range targets and even longer range targets sometimes..i used safety distance for a long time and its right there with the banshee but the banshee seems to be more accurate for me.
I wonder how many people are going to mention outsider in the comments. Seems to really shine with enthusiasts
@@TuxedoBandido i never put any thought into it for a long time as it was not a damage talent, but i got a god rolled safety distance from a named cache and tried it out and it was kind of a game changer being able to engage targets beyond the typical 15 to 20 meter smg optimal range.
The best weapon is always the one that one likes most.
I value stability and reload time above all. That reload delay can get deadly rapidly.
Let’s see if it tops the dark winter top 3 known exotic smgs in my opinion
Bro truly, I just cannot get past the Banshee's reload time when using it with Hunter's Fury. I may try the MP7 tbh.
Kinda diggin' the Cold Relations at the moment.
The banshee is my "go to" SMG on run and gun builds.
Dark winter is my fav, this is my second fav. Darkwinter is something special.
DW fan too, it was the first SMG build I made when I started to play.
I don't have the Ouro yet, loot games hate me. My go to non exotic is the Dark Winter, and I love the Lady Death it just shreds enemies!
I prefer the RPM on the Dark winter. I never liked the Banshee/Grudge.
It Stays in my stash but after watching this I’ll give it another try.
My current favorite SMGs in the game. Dark Winter
Chatterbox
Banshee OMG is it called?
Saftey Distance
The exotic one (not obroburus) gives u bleed effect.
Well, you can use both Banshee and DW swapping + reloading. 🤔
In any case, if a longer is required I'd definitely pick the St Elmo. 👌
There is alot to discuss here. If exotic ourobors is the best. If you can make it work Backfire can hit highest dps in the game. If you can also make Chatterbox work at max stack it deals up to 3-6m more dps than Ourobors. Ourobors basicly the easiest one to make it work.
For legendarys Safety Distance has an insane range and acuracy. If its used right way Swapcain easly out damages every single smg in the game including ouroboros. But not Backfire toght nothing can out damage backfire unless its one shot sniper. Darkwinter is also a great smg but it doesnt have any range. We can also add Grudge as a contender if we are using hunters furry but honestly i have never try it this one before.
All solid points I can chew on for sure. There really aren’t too many bad smgs surely. The Chatterbox I did try with the changes early Season, but it was hit and miss most of the time. But it’s surely a beast when it’s on no doubt.
Backfire is actually not that good. You are forced to invest in hazard protection and bleed protection. You need 90% for it to not backfire on you (no pun intended).
After all is said and done. At max stacks it does around the same damage as a dark winter build does (tested with striker , coyote build). It’s just more upkeep and constant visual affects when bleed procs on self that’s very annoying. Not to mention you lose all stacks if you don’t shoot someone for some seconds. Which then you are losing damage. If it had stack decay instead like striker it might be worth it. But losing all stacks at the same time sucks. I also find it inconsistent. I feel like I lose stacks sometimes even tho I’m still shooting
@@GB2G Its not optimal to use but still it has highest dps. And it works better with armor regen and extra armor perks. Still there is only one extra armor and armor regen that can supress the bleed and its on hearthbreaker. Even with all the down sides i was able to reach 1.3m crits on body .
@@gokyuzu1484 I used it with a striker build and had a couple of bleed protections on there. It was at like 88% it wasn’t optimized. From what I’ve heard 90% is what I need. If I had it optimized I could theoretically fully negate the bleed. But yeah I had chc/chd attributes for the rest and then the strikers bonus obviously. Haven’t tried it with any other gear set yet. I was also able to hit like 1.3M to the body as well if I remember correctly.
I could achieve similar results with my other builds with less upkeep, which is why I ultimately didn’t continue using the build.
@@GB2G Hearthbreaker gives me %200 extra armor and constantly regenerats %4 of that extra armor per second. Backfire gives me %0.5 armor damage per second. So i still get %3.5 extra armor regen per sec. And only condition for this armor regen to work is hiting enemy thats litterly all. Other than that after reaching max stack i will have 3m armor till combat ends. This is the only realyable way to use Backfire.
You can try having hazard protections but you realize you are making low damage.
You can try and relying on bloodsucker or matador but the moment your team mate steals the kills you will find your self on the ground.
But once you have a heartbreaker build you wont be needing backfire anyway.
My banshee is 25. Well worth it
Can't wait to get 25 on mine. The grinding is cruel lol
@@ferrenberg it is worth it. My mp7 and ouroboros are also 25
Yeah there's definitely a big user factor on how SMGs behave. If you're using an SMG on a more tanky build like heartbreaker for instance you can afford to use those smaller mags on a weapon like Dark Winter to stay up longer. Ultimately anyone can make anything work if they have the skill and knowledge to apply its advantages to the situation.
Banshee with in sync is a boss shredder
Definitely...agreed ElderChiefPoe..SGS clan...Tux clan is the truthful.
One of the BEST vids to clear the fog on smg effectiveness... "Time to clear" is the best quantifier... ABSOLUTELY the easiest way to rate a total build....
I recommend looking at iKia"s SMG video. He spreadsheets with damage talents and tends to recommend Banshee with Fasthands. It's a long video but worth watching and he has also done AR and LMG videos.
I was lucky enough to find a fully maxed out, god rolled Banshee with full smg damage, crit chance, and damage to targets out of cover. All I had to do was change the talent.
Yes Banshee and The Backfire are killers. Use the Backfire with an armour on kill or hazard resist build to negate the bleed.
Dark Winter, over Oro any day but that is just me. I run it on a Brazo build to get extra rounds.
Hey well explained could you do a incursion for dummies video I would greatly appreciate that
Love the discussion here, Tux. Well done
Just gone through my 64 maxed out load outs 😬. (That’s not a ‘flex’ it’s a measure of how much I love this game) I have one SMG build 🥴. That’s a 100% haz pro Backfire build. And it works. But I do run the Vector SBR .45 with FastHands as backup on a few. I’ve been hoarding SMGs just in case. So gonna break out the old Banshee and see how it goes
nice AB! flex that Backfire bro! i think you could like the Banshee over the Vector. I did in the end.
as far as exotics, i'd use the "lady death" before the ouroboros. the best smg in the game is the banshee; but the police UMP and "dark winter" are damn good too.
No doubt about it. If players tested/compare weapons more often on shooting range, more players would realize Banshee is the best non exotic smg...
@@madangel71 agreed. and there are people saying the ouro is the best smg and i LMAO at that - the talent sucks and the gun is so inaccurate it's worthless outside 7-8 meters. getting that gun was a huge disappointment (to me) . for exotic SMGs, lady death is SO much better. however, using a maxed-out banshee with "optimist" or "close and personal" as the talent makes that the best overall SMG. the only thing i don't like about the banshee is i can't put the +10% crit damage rail on it when using firewall specialization - and i use it (firewall) most of the time in PvE. thanks for replying - nice to see some people actually check out the guns.
I like the mp5 and mp7 I use them more frequently
You forgot about the dark winter that gun slaps
What spreadsheet do you use for the numbers - there was a community google doc before i thought - i cant find it now
what do you think of mp7 after the buff - i like it better now than banshee
Hit em with that UMP on an umbra build. It's the Mac truck that cardi b talks about lol.
So what about the tactical or police ump 55,,, on my crit build at 25 it hits for 190k not as fast but hits like a truck
I played incursion4 times and got the st donor twice bullet king once and the scorpio. To Hell with that game mode.
Aug with flatline. It’s a murderer!
I remember when the Chatterbox was the SMG.
i agree, the orobouros is the # 1 smg.
Did something happen with the Dark Winter? I know it was real popular with SMG guys. I can't deal with the accuracy falloff at range personally.
You nailed it. Those loss of rounds at range hurt and create so many reloads. As do missing
I run this gun with my striker build and i can easily walk thru any all all parts of pve
i use it myself and it melts, the only thing i don't like about it is, with the better barrel mod, it doesn't have that satisfying sound
Mine is DW and Banshee. Lady Death hasnt got enough ammo for me and the Backfire...meh
This gun has always been a beast lol
TEC 9 with Red Striker Hafe a high damage 😮 from 1,4 Millionen crit
Purple striker pieces? Arent they supposed to be green?
You can change the colour for colour blind people
is lady death that bad to not deserve a mention? i just found one and was wondering if tis any good
It’s good. But situational with those stacks. I think it shines in modes like Sunmit.
Looks fun 👀 👍🏻
MP7 is my fav.
Banshee did get alot better..it's a great smg now..but tac vector still non exotic king!
No dark winter ?
Emilias guard is good too
It bothers me that for the entire time this gun has been available in the game, Massive have still not fixed how the extended magazine mods are the wrong angle and clip through the gun.
In other words the sheet don't mean much because High damage means little if you can't hit anyhting. lol.
I'm using Dark Winter. Is it no good now?
Just use whatever you like dude. It doesn’t matter
Que sentido tiene ponerte un pecho de Golan??no lo entiendo.....1 pieza solo te da 10% de estados alterados que no estas utilizando
I pretty much rely on the Grown Great. Not much better than it that isn't an Ouroboros. Best balance of fire rate, mag size, reload speed and stopping power, and all without all those mod slots.
that's crazy. I think i am going to have to try the tommy just to see again if my mind can change
I use The Apartment but I’m new
I love my banshee although I haven't got a god rolled one
Optimize that thing
@@mikerzisu9508 I'm as far as I could go with it and I've done so soooo many lvl4 strong points and it won't give me the crafting blueprint😭
Banshee vs MPX?
All us OG's get it. There's a difference between what gear is best on paper vs what I'll bring with me when my life depends on it. Thanks for keeping it real and not being one of those guys that just shoves Excel spreadsheets in our faces.......
Can you explain tactical reload? I've never heard of it. So your gun auto reloads when you pull your Shield or did I misunderstand?
Tactical reload is when you reload your magazine during a lull in the action so you have a full mag again even though the other mag might have a few left in it. The auto reload happens when your magazine is completely empty and the bolt locks back. In gun guy terms this is an emergency reload, because you can't operate your weapon until you have reloaded.
For me it's the SIGmpx all day
To each their own, but the mpx is near the bottom of the list in terms of dps currently
The Apartment?
Which SMGs are bad?
For me my fav smg is not even on the list lol. i love the mpx.
Try 2 striker,3 Hunter fury with ninjabike bp. Or 3 striker 2 hf & ninjabike Which ever you want. But you also get bonus armor with hf.
i just can't use the banshee because the magazine is not properly placed on the 3d model of the gun and it makes me want to scratch my brain... once you notice it you can't go back, sorry not sorry !
Also since you are a youtuber can you please harrass the devs into fixing this ? worth a try.
Lady death, hunters fury, sombra chest with obliterate and coyote mask destroys every oro build in pve and pvp.
Ummm no lol. The oro is going to win in pretty much all scenarios in all builds close range. That rpm is just too high
@@mikerzisu9508is not the rpm is how fast you can kill, and lady death kills the fastest, faster than any AR and SMG
@@azteka6103 I disagree. I have 4k hours into the game, and I have not encountered anything that kills quicker than the oreo except for something that can one shot such as a shotty or mmr
@@mikerzisu9508 Try again...i have almost same amount of hours and i downed plenty of oroes with a simple build like furry with lady, and that's with obliterate, let alone glasscannon/vigilence, the only one ive struggle to down were Eagles and horns.
@@azteka6103 I was referring to pve, not pvp
Sig mpx still my choice
how did lady death not make the list
He's talking about non-exotics Lady death is an exotic
Just realized they removed the holstered skill on the chatterbox. Late to dinner.
lol. Totally
dark winter can hurt
Mp7??