As an ex-mormon and a reality tv fan and a regular Mormon Stories consumer, this was stupendous. Was wonderful to see such wise, entertaining, and educated reality tv commentators in Samantha, Brittney, and Alyssa and I must insist that further episodes discussing this show include these brilliant pundits again.
? Could the leaders want it all to shut down yet still have all the riches when it does. Sounds like a safer plan to turn people off to it rather than possibly face lawsuits over the scam of a religion it is. All religions are scams
I think I looked at thos show through totally different eyes after watching morman stories for 18 months. I know no women were fond of Zack but how else would he be after being raised strictly Morman with a powerful heart surgeon dad?
As a PR specialist, I find it impressive church leadersip can talk out both sides of their mouths and maintain the membership it does. They'll be open-minded and lenient on certain things when addressing the world, but will condemn those very same things to the TBM's at General Conference. It's quite the balancing act.
Did everyone coordinate the wardrobe today or did you serendipitously show up in the cutest back-to-school outfits because you’re just that aligned with each other? The vest, the stripes, the plaid. I love it all!
Nobody accuses stake presidents of not really being Mormon because they have niche careers like owning three construction companies or sixty nursing homes.
While in training to become a Certified Sex Coach (which I did not complete due to finances) in 2017 in Poland, I shared a seat on a mini bus with a woman who was raised Mormon & then shared a room with her for the 5 day workshop in Poland with the trainers, I learned a lot of her hurt while practicing her faith! She became a dedicated professional who helps Mormon women unpack the trauma of their younger lives in the church. It’s wonderful that you John are having this great discussion with your guests! 💖😊
My ex tried using religious manipulation on me when I wanted a divorce. We were married in the temple and he tried telling me that God would frown upon me for destroying a temple marriage and to that I said, I'm pretty sure God doesn't want us to live miserable lives for the sake of keeping a temple marriage together. That divorce was the best thing I ever did, hardest thing, but best thing.
Learning about child development & psychology would greatly help the Mormon community learn how to raise their children in a way that they not only can teach their children about age appropriate sex ed that could combat these tragedies, but that it would majorly remove the stigma of purity culture being so widespread. The General authorities and church teachings are not equivalent to mental, physical, emotional, and sexual health and well-being nor should they ever be. They’re not trained and they’re not infallible! Child development encapsulates all sorts of positive aspects that would greatly help mormon women and children from being victims, and to be properly and appropriately educated. I use these teachings with my kids today and I think it’s a win for both myself and my children.
I couldn’t imagine not knowing anything about sex until my wedding night! Talk about a nightmare 🤦♀️ the garments are wild to me but I grew up Baptist. I enjoyed the show and this video. As a never Mormon, I am fascinated learning more about this religion.
@@heathercschafer I was fairly young when I began to question the church due to personal circumstances. It wasn’t until I hit high school and took both a child development class and a psychology class that I realized what was happening and had been happening to me all along. I secretly forged my parents signature on a consent form to take one sex Ed class because I knew I needed to know more. I would say I regret it but I don’t. I regret my dishonesty but I don’t regret going to the class itself. I wound up learning about SA abuse there and that opened my eyes. I felt my entire body go cold and even that wasn’t enough to pull me out of the LDS church. I was 24 and asked to teach a lesson on the curse of Cain (look it up, YT doesn’t like the keywords being posted,) and that was my shelf-breaking moment. I left with the intention of going back someday. Now I can’t even imagine why I would go back, and I found that God doesn’t exist in religion.
Watching on replay. Britt, I’m with you. There’s no such thing as a “guilty pleasure,” you like what you like and it has no effect whatsoever on anyone else.
I think that’s it insane that they’re worried about the consequences of this show enough to make a statement when they have ignored instances of abuse like the cases of Jodi Hildebrandt/Ruby Franke and Chad Daybell/Lori Vallow.
Mormon stories has done a lot of episodes concerning Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow, and Jodi Hildebrant. Just Google for those episode numbers so you can watch for yourself the reporting they’ve done. It will also lead you to other podcasters who have done more in depth analysis and coverage as well. I’m thinking of Lauren and John from Hidden True Crime podcast.
@@brycemannn4847 or talks about his MOTHER and SISTER'S sex lives like dude what are you doing? So excited to push a narrative and sound like he's in the know about women's experiences that he ends up sounding like a) a creep and b) bad at sex because he couldn't fathom a vibrator in the marital bedroom 💀
I love this discussion and love how the church put out a statement before the show even came out. Kudos to the Hulu network. Number 1 show on Hulu. 🎉🎉I’m proud of these women for just being loud. It’s time to be loud instead of hide behind closed doors.
I’d like to push back on Sam’s (very understandable) frustration with spirituality being conflated with rule following. I don’t think the obsession is with rule following , it’s an obsession with sacrificing. Sacrificing is what makes these rules “hallowed”. It’s also why reg Mormon’s feel so bitter about these characters; there’s a lot of costs to be Mormon, and these ladies seem to not have to pay the toll.
Also sacrificing and restricting yourself for someone or something outside of yourself is usually done with the expectation that you will be rewarded for it. And if other people come along and they don't have to sacrifice and restrict themselves to get the same rewards or if the reward doesn't happen, it makes you bitter. The earlier people realise that they are the only ones who can and will live their own lives the happier they will be.
This is a very astute observation. I heard the line “Satan wants you to be miserable. God wants you to sacrifice,” on the mission and it really stuck with me. Also what comes to mind is the phrase “sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven” from the hymn Praise to the Man. And then obviously the verbiage in the temple about sacrificing everything you own (and until recent changes, even your life) to the Church… it’s all a huge part of our programming. Sacrifice = blessings, happiness, access to Jesus’s atonement, etc.
Also, the COST of garments when a woman's body is changing....it is exploitative that garments have to be worn "appropriately." I could have amassed the most phenomenal variety of VS lingerie for the amount of money I spent on garments alone. That isn't even getting into clothing that accomodates.garments.
That isn't exploitative at all. It's their religion. What's exploitative is telling women they need to dress sexy when the same way can be said, women's body are changing
I finally got my resignation letter from the Mormon cult only took 8 months. But I was remarried to my best friend and nevermo. She wears lingerie, g strings, lacy panties and loves sex. My ex would only take off the bottoms. I could not see or touch her breasts because she had been sex shamed by the Mormon cult.
Great panel discussion, but I would have liked to have heard from an older woman, too. I feel like there may be a generational shift in what it means to be a mormon, because none of these women on the show come even vaguely close to what I was expected to look and act like as a very devout mormon woman when it comes to dress, WofW, language, demeanor, obedience, no employment allowed, etc. That older perspective could be a reminder that this newer type of mormon would have been exed not so very long ago.
My Mormon story is about a "good" Mormon woman who lied to the police and got me charged with two misdemeanors. I whipped it all in court representing myself, but it was aggravating that the Bishop (initially) believed a liar until she admitted she lied. (Sorry, no sex or violence involved. 🙂) I still like the Bishop,¹ but it taught me Mormons have no more discernment than my pet rock. My wife of 47 years said, "I'm never going to trust a Mormon again." ¹ I see the, now-former, Bishop occasionally, and he has no clue I'm no longer a Mormon.
My sister has been struggling with her feminine health from wearing her garments. It's been so hard to witness. She is so devoted to the faith and it's effectively hurting her self esteem and also interfering with her family planning since she has been wanting to get pregnant for over a year and can't because of this struggle. I know this isn't the main point of this episode but I felt compelled to comment bc I know she is not alone in this. Both my sisters are active endowed members and we all work together coaching gymnastics at our gym that we own and even watching them struggle with wearing their garments to work or not it's rough. They are amazing and I want to support them but sometimes I just want to tell them to stop feeling the shame
Genuine question, how are the garments affecting health? I could see them being uncomfortable but not sure how they could cause health problems. Never Mormon here so I don't have any experience wearing garments.
@ashleymatt6928 it often leads to yeast infections and uti issues and in her case the meds she has taken haven't helped. She also took out her iud in hopes to become pregnant but until these issues can be helped her doctor advised against actively trying to become pregnant. I'm sure there is more to it than I know since I have never worn garments but the mental toll has been the worst to witness. She feels so guilty not wearing them to help heal her body and feels like her body is failing her. I just love her and hate seeing her struggle
***Writing this on my husband's phone, because it's handy**** Although I'm not a Mormon and have never been one, my family descends from the Mayflower Pilgrims, marrying the French Huguenots. They were deeply religious, conservative and intermarried others of their kind. My grandmother never wore shorts or owned a pair of slacks. As a young girl in the 70s, we were not allowed to wear shorts, we had walking skirts ( below the knee). However, I've never had to see a doctor for a yeast infection...EVER due to one magic word: VINEGAR. You don't need Vagisil, creams, sprays, wipes to deal with that itch. The Ph of your private areas has to be very basic ( as opposed to acidic, for yeast to grow; and yes, dampness, darkness, lack of air circulation all help. You can Google it to find the exact amounts, but it isn't necessary. White or cider vinegar will help. Pour some into a warm bath, and soak in it. If it has gotten Really bad ( into your actual vaginal canal, and producing discharge, odor or itching) you can douche with water that has white vinegar added to it. If you use vinegar once a week or so, you'll keep yeast at bay, because vinegar is acidic ( C2H3O2). If the skin is slightly acidic, yeast can't grow. Trust me on this. 3 generations of women who've never suffered from this. I started doing this when I went through puberty, because even if you aren't wearing additional underwear, you still have to deal with moisture, chafing, constantly washing, while menstruating. Vinegar is your answer.
John, I agree regarding Whitney's husband. Using the word confusion, and then apparently being able to exchange photos caused me to stop and think I was confusing Tinder with Grinder. Yes, there was enough smoke in that conversation to believe there may actually be some fire.
Yesssss this is the podcast episode I’ve be waiting for 😂 as a never Mormon it feels so funny to say I’ve been waiting to hear you have to say. My jaw was constantly on the floor. It’s everything I thought Mormonism wasn’t 😮
That's true, technically but then having been raised with Mormon kids all around me, it does reflect how the "bad" kids od tge brood would act when the pressure got to be too much. They went a little more bonkers then the average kid in teen rebellion and the "rebellion" did seem like a decade long Rumapringa
I had a Mormon friend post about the show saying that it doesn’t represent actual Mormon life… but the show looks exactly like the lives of many of my Mormon family members.
The ENTIRE time I was watching the show I was thinking & hoping I rlyyyy wish Mormon stories would do an episode about this….&& here it is!!!! Psyched. I had SO many differing thoughts while watching, especially with all the stuff I’ve learned about the religion, doctrine & high control groups in general.
I know I’m not on Catholic Stories, but I just want to say, I grew up Catholic, converted to Mormonism later in life. I didn’t know what an orgasm was until my eldest son was 3 years old. Very sad how many of us were so ignorant. I assume my mother had the same experience. Thank you for this interesting episode.
Double comment to add that now that I'm 38 and my mom is 58 we are in this great place of honesty and she recently opened up to me about all the infidelity that happened in our LDS small town. It's wild! Being faithful seemed to be more the rare thing than cheated was when my Mom was a young wife
Dakoda's behavior is really scary. He's already trying to seperate Taylor from the female confidant that doesn't like him. He's already trying to get her to doubt her judgment of her own friends. He is trying to convince her that her own perspective about friendship is wrong and his is right. He is showing classic abuser signs. I can't watch the show any more, the whole thing is just too cringy for me. But good luck Taylor.
Why does the church own so many livestock farms? I believe it’s the simple reason that animals are a big money maker. They even own private hunting reserves, run by missionaries. There’s even one in Utah County also run by missionaries A lot of greed within this cult. I tells a lot about a person who are cruel to animals.
@@vw4822you don't see the harm he has caused to the political climate in this country? We used to have civility but it all went out the window when he came on the scene.
I agree. He promotes a level of aggression and verbal attacks, even dog whistles to incite rage, that makes his followers think it’s okay to be the same.
I throughly enjoyed this podcast!! Love it so much! Thanks John for having these sharp women share their perspective! I haven’t watched the Hulu show but will soon.
I was excited for this show but honestly it kinda turned into a horror movie. Specifically Taylor’s situation of being pregnant and so vulnerable but was still having to fight off “submission”. Dakota even asking her to do that is so out of line. Taylor’s mother - while not happy with Dakota still supported him in the relationship advancing to the next level. Leanne’s daughter is days away from giving birth and is still not supportive of her. She was so scared of Dakota that night she soiled her pants and still her family (seemingly) supports him in his wishes of marriage. The scene where she is laying in bed sobbing because he just won’t let her sleep was so scary. The relationship felt violent and with Taylor being so visibly pregnant it made me fear for her.
So very accurate. A reason the LDS church put out a statemwnt, I think, is in part because between Dakota and Zac, a lot of terriying abuse is shown. The part of the DV call when she is sobbing and saying "you don't own me" let me know exactly how he had been treating her leading up to her breakdown. I watches the whole video last year, and while she did break the law, it was clear to me that he was harraunging her, pushed, her shamed her until she just completely broke down. 😢I cried during a lot of their scenes😢😢
This is interesting even for a 79-year old widower, but not surprising. My family of three had moved from a branch in Washington in the early 90's to a ward in Idaho, where over two decades, polygamy was an issue and patriotism, and real Mormon fundamentalism. For most of our 55-year marriage my wife only wore her garment when we went to the temple which was often. I was in it to win it, though my wife was never that strong, but I liked the patriarchy, which was not a good trait to follow. Not long in Idaho, I met a very pretty lady of 40, 8 years my junior, who was in a rough second marriage. I had a good marriage but my wife I would later learn was schizophrenic but not an excuse for my behavior. This lady and I became casual friends, or that's what I thought everyone knew, though we shared way to many intimacies. My wife got me to agree to see a Mormon marriage counselor on this friendship issue and the counselor said that I and my friend were having an emotional affair. Of course I denied it. We were just friends. This emotional affair with absolutely no physical touching lasted 19 years until I stopped attending church due to "Mormon Think" and "Mormon Stories". This was hard on my wife and two of my friends' husbands during that time wanted to kill me, and her many teenage and grown children knew of this "affair" to my surprise. Her son is now the first counselor in this ward and he told me recently that he and his married sisters knew what was going on all this time. He had even wanted me to marry his mom when he was younger. She and I were both very spiritual and very active, and we spent a lot of time together with her convincing me to buy a cell phone so we could talk to each other often. My wife and I attended a temple, 4 driving hours away, more than most members in our ward, but still attractions can be strong enough that rationality enters into thinking. It was good that we were both good Mormons or else we would have gone all the way. Even this way we had talked of marriage but thought such a move would be hard on our friendship. So regardless of how members think a temple marriage keeps one pure, human sexuality and attraction can override virtue. My wife was also pretty. I now feel bad that I didn't treat her as my only love rather that being in love with two women who both knew of my feelings.
Patrick you sound really confused. You are human first regardless of what the church teaches. I don't believe you or anyone should feel guilty when you are able to connect with another human. It's beautiful! I'm glad you and this woman had each other. The church is so hypocritical on this matter. Joseph Smith can have over 30 wives and Brigham Young I think had 47. Your experience sounds like a case for consensual polygamy. It seems that the prophets were really into polygamy for sex and domination. I suggest you seek counseling from someone outside the church for a wider perspective.
I just started watching the show. I generally hate reality tv, but I LOVE the show because it’s so incredibly relatable! This is exactly the church that I saw at BYU
That would be interesting to have some firm statistics on. Mormon temple marriage has lower divorce rate, but higher murder, swinging and non monogamy rates... ???
when i was in the church i always thought it was interesting that it was completely normal for a man to wear a button up shirt that might have the garments peeking out of the top like an undershirt but if a woman’s shirt was low enough to do the same it would be a scandal 🤔 i wanted those men in turtlenecks 😂
Same with sheerness. Like it’s so fine that we can see their garments through their eyes white shirt but we need to wear an undershirt over our garments to be able to then wear a white shirt. But of course it’s this way because men (and this church REALLY loves them).
It's so sad that the church controls the sexuality of young people so tightly that it results in such repression. The only saving grace is that people marry and have children so early that they have plenty of time to experiment. I am not sure how healthy this is, but it's completely understandable.
Right...women talking about not knowing about sex, showcasing abusive husbands, women being the acknowledged breadwinners. The Scan-dahl, but family annihlators, silence.
I agree with you John. I do think the enshrined doctrine of plural marriage does play a larger part in the psyche of Mormon men. Providing a large boost in justification for exploration into interactions with other women. I can hear the thought now "since I will have more wives in the eternities, I should at least start looking now."
And in this particular case, it was the husbands intorducing alcohol and then introducing the wives doing things, then introducing the husbands swapping partners. So definitiely male led, as per usual
THIS 1938 Ep was the year I was borned. I joined the LDS church. married a BYU professor's daughter in Temple. 5yrs later left the church and marriage. Studied Various form psychology for 10yrs to learn how to deal with child trauma involving abandonment & abuse issues by PTSD father & mentally ill mother. How I learned to truly forgive them & myself while returning my mind to a atate of innocence, peace, joy & love, without entering another church or any organized religion again.
I heard Taylor Frankie Paul say in a podcast that the last time she went to church (which was recently) she had such anger after that she crushed an energy drink can in her hand and cut herself. What has gone on at church that left her feeling like this?
Some advice to Nemo¹: "If he wants to sue the Mormon church for defamation he should check with his lawyer to see if the law in the UK reduces damages if Nemo himself spreads the defamatory matter, such as by repeating what the church says. I keep my life ethically clean, so if I ever get excommunicated, I may sue the Mormon church for defamation if they broadcast the ex-communication. It seems bizarre to me that Nemo seems to believe the Mormon church is true, but he is trying to reform it. A few people can not reform a corrupt organization (compare RICO). Corrupt organizations, especially the larger or more powerful ones, must be metaphorically destroyed. They can't be saved.
I got a tattoo before I bailed. I had a wonderful little service dog that was trained for me because of my head injury. He was a small dog because it’s my head not my physical and I needed him for his brain so I got an extremely smart breed. Anyways, I had his paw print transferred to over my heart. I got it before he died as a way to honor him for all that he did for me, including saving my life multiple times. I always wear a shirt though so unless I show them, nobody knows I have it It’s more of a personal thing for me. I was very close with him and we spent every day every hour constantly together. I feel like he dedicated his life for me. Is the dog you see in my picture here?
@@sweetdestiny5301 I’ve never wanted a tattoo before, but I thought it was my way of honoring him! Every day, as I take my shirt off and look at it, it brings a smile to my face and memory of my little tank that help me conquer the world each day
I wonder if any Russian propaganda funding is going to the traditional wife stuff (which does include some Mormon women) on TikTok, Twitter, TH-cam, Facebook, Instagram, etc.
The comedic genius of the show are all the pans and arial coverage of temples and chapels! The way the directors juxtapose a dramatic scene for the viewer with the “sure light and knowledge” of a temple next makes me chuckle every time. “The field is white and ready to harvest” kind of missionary work… only in reverse. 😂
That shirt is fantastic, John....also, it would have been smarter of the church (since they see themselves as a version of royalty) to acknowledge nothing and not give any press response whatsoever.
It blows my mind what they said about excommunication. My dad had an affair and divorced my mom. He was excommunicated for that. Back in the 1970's when they read the names in church. My dad didn't live in the same state, so my mother and I had to live through that!
Public shaming! OMG that's soooooo awful!!! If that happened top me I wish I'd be brave enough to make a huge scene. It's examples like this that make me feel Mormonism is a Poison
Man I would LOVE to be on the panel for future discussions because I have been discussing all of this with my husband, a never Mormon, and boy do I have THOUGHTS lol. So thankful for this episode validating so much of what I've been thinking and feeling.
Alyssa Grenfell made a really interesting video back in July on why Mormon mom vloggers are able to be so popular and well funded. Ad money per view is waayyy higher for Mormon content compared to other topics!
"I've never tried alcohol" "We know John. . . 🙄" You don't get POINTs for maintaining your repression and judgemental superiority complex. It's not "better", and is a dumb thing to constantly be pointing out. (Also, you are awesome)
Seriously, they aren’t worried about being ex-communicated because more than likely the church knows how much money this can bring in for them, and for now the church quietly condones the show. Seems odd that the statement the church threw out was less than ingenious, or the girls would already be excommunicated.
Having a mom from Ecuador doesn’t make you a woman of colour. I don’t know why Americans don’t get that there’s white people south of America. My Mom is from Chile & I’m white. Now I don’t know her mom maybe she’s brown but her daughter looks white, so I’m guessing her mom is white.
I am Portuguese and it's similar. I am white but one of my brothers is deep brown. That's pretty common in Portugal but in comparison the Zac's family.... Jen has lots more color. And they definitely don't see her as white.
The Snowflake AZ temple does have a stained glass piece depicting Jesus with little children. but it is inside and back-lit, so there's no way to see it from outside. I think other temples have similar pieces. It seems very intentional that they do not have these beautiful pieces on the outside walls. It boths hides any similarity that the LDS church has to Catholisism, and reserves the ability to enjoy this art to the elite "temple worthy" members.
Hey y’all, just wanted to add that it is a little bit different with Judaism because it is also an ethnicity. So, when someone says they are Jewish, they could simply mean by blood. It’s not necessarily just cultural or religious. I will say some could argue that there are ethnoreligious Mormon groups, such as in Utah, simply because groups of people migrated and settled together and interbred.
I was going to say the same thing. You can tell by a genetics test that you are Jewish but can’t do that with Mormon. Judaism is the Jewish religion and not all Jewish people follow Judaism.
@@SacredDreamertotally understand where you’re coming from and I’m inclined to agree with you. I just wanted to emphasize this point because mischaracterizing Judaism and Jewishness as solely religious/cultural leads to a lot of misunderstanding. Racial “purity” was a heavy component of antisemitism in the Holocaust, so it’s important to be aware of that component of Jewishness. Otherwise, people can be quick to assume that Jewish people are equivalent to white Europeans, which is not true (not to mention the various Jewish ethnic groups throughout Asia and Africa).
There are many older chapels in Utah & Idaho that have stained glass windows. The chapel I attended, growing up, has beautiful stained glass windows. But, ya’ll are correct that it is geometric or nature scenes, not biblical. The “B” role shots that I found interesting were the shots of crosses & some other Christian artifacts that are not “Mormon”.
I know SLC very well. The main "chapel" they show its the Cathedral of the Madeline on about 100 South 200 east or so. They show it over and over and it's NOT mormon
I happen to have known Jen and her family for a good part of her life. I love their family. Jen wanted to be famous throughout those years I knew their family. Her parents always supported her in those dreams.
As a quaker who chooses to wear a bonnet on an almost daily basis, I find it is true what you all said about other things being a symbol of faith, and that forcing folks to wear garments is absolutely ridiculous and harmful. The symbol of my faith is a hat that I get to choose to wear. Other symbols of my quaker faith are quaker t-shirts, pins, buttons, jewelry, traditional clothing, or just being a nice person who does their best to see the good in others. (FYI: it is an optional tradition to wear a hat or bonnet, and most quakers no longer opt to wear them, and opt instead to use other symbols or no symbol at all to show their faith)
John you hit the nail on the head with the church pointing fingers at the ones who fall away and have problems in life as the example of what happens when we leave. I feel I’m often that example in my family cuz of my past problems with alcohol. It’s so hard to build any credibility back with them now that I’m sober. Ugh 😅
I really like Mayci. I had seen that she got pregnant out of wedlock and became a widow. Was a college athlete. I think that's probably why she is so self aware and comes across very mature. I actually liked most of them quite a bit. Whitney was a little tough for me, but I'm sure that comes from her upbringing and I hope she gets some insight and grows. Their group would be a little exhausting to be a part of though. Idk if I could do it. Looks kind of fun, but also a bit toxic at times.
After 2 episodes I stopped watching. I don’t want to support their life style in any way by watching them on TV or social media or buying anything they are offering. They are making up stuff to exploit the public into paying for plastic surgery and hair extensions. I can’t be a part of it. I feel the same way about many other reality tv stars.
I don’t plan to watch it, but I enjoy hearing about it second-hand. Are Mormon women supposed to keep their hair long? Is it about being “appropriately feminine?”
Me neither. Not interested in watching this show. Not a fan of reality tv, in general. And I’ve had enough of seeing Mormon women looking like sexy Stepford Wives and being objectified by the men in their lives. I did enjoy hearing about the garments and what they do to women’s health. I was only in the church for 4 years as a teen. I remember non-Mormon kids from school and even later as a young adult, telling me that Mormons can’t wear red and they have magical underwear. I vehemently denied all this and told them they don’t know what they’re talking about. I had never heard of garments at that point! I know they were wrong about the color red (that’s a FLDS rule), but I guess they were right about the underwear. What’s concerning to me, is all the secrets. Why had I never heard of garments the four years I was in the church? Why were temple activities a secret, also? It’s silly that such important parts of faith are kept hidden under wraps even to their own members. How can there be informed consent when there are so many secrets? It makes the religion feel more like a cult.
The show actually does have depth . The women discuss not knowing about sex, being afraid to have an orga**, 2 deeply abusive relationships are ahiwn, complicated dynamics of a male centered culture when it's the moms making the household money and other things that do have depth and value
It’s just hard when woman have been shamed for not being modest for decades so it is hard to look at their dress and think this is a representation of Mormon when as a non believer in my rural Utah town I was shamed for showing my shoulders
Their whole point is that they refuse to conform to those rules. And they do struggle with being shamed. I personally don't wear clothes like that but the whole point is they can wear what they want. I have a fundamentally Muslim neighbor and he is an as* but I purposefully wear my hair down and don't cover my arms around him because he doesn't have the right to judge or shame me. I am so sorry for your experiences😢if you can, try to mentally frame your bare shoulders as a sign of strength
John, without seeing any other sources, my impression of Connor, too, was that it was not Tinder, but Grindr that he was on. I would not be surprised and do not think that you were wrong for mentioning the idea.
Mormonism is not a denomination of Christianity, just to be clear. They are not the same. The Moroni is not the Bible. And there are CLEAR differences between the two religion. No religion is perfect, some may say Christianity is culty and I could see that from aspects of it, but it is NOT like Mormonism.
51:00 I just want to mention that Taylor has said does not remember the night she broke the boundary because she was so drunk. I think there’s unfortunately a sadder side to this than most people, even Taylor may not yet realize.
To respond to your question about why Mormon women are dominating the algorithms, Alyssa Grendeld did a video about how the Mormon Church is pumping money into the advertising. It’s fascinating!!
Divorce stigma is real. A friend took his life before he would be divorced in front of family. And he was swinging and having feelings for others. So why would it matter? But it did. So sad
10-15 years ago when I was a church leader the statistic we talked about regarding the married couple, with a family, that goes to the temple (what was referred to as the Ensign family) was cited as 5%. I was called to serve single adults at the time, which were a large percentage of Mormon households.
Now that Dallin Oaks has called for more excommunications, these women may find themselves in a pickle they didn’t anticipate. And a COLLEGE PROFESSOR told a young woman how to conduct her married sex life?!? That would be a firing offense at any other university today. Yikes.
Anyone else find it odd that this panel of, all but 1, women spends a lot of time talking about the men in the show? They speak as if they know the men, but very little time is spent showing them or providing background. Yet they discuss them as if the men are just the stereotypical male of the patriarchy. No nuance allowed or even considered. It’s one thing to talk about Mormon culture in general terms, but to then apply those generalities to the individuals, knowing little to nothing about them, seems very inconsiderate and inappropriate. But hey, I’m just a man, what do I know.
I recently found this channel and Cult to Consciousness, my fiancée asking for historical proof of the Book of Mormon, and then decided to leave the church. As a covert living on opposite coast of the Mormon belt, wedding dress shopping to cover garments has a nightmare because the current look is more skin. I would find a front and sleeve that worked but then not a full black.
I am an atheist, I have officially resigned my membership from the SLC based sect of Mormonism, my heritage is several generations of Mormons, and I consider myself culturally Mormon.
The older chapels in downtown SLC had a bit of stained glass and murals, similar to the temple. I grew up in downtown SLC. As some chapels have been torn down, we've lost a lot of that beauty.
As an ex-mormon and a reality tv fan and a regular Mormon Stories consumer, this was stupendous. Was wonderful to see such wise, entertaining, and educated reality tv commentators in Samantha, Brittney, and Alyssa and I must insist that further episodes discussing this show include these brilliant pundits again.
? Could the leaders want it all to shut down yet still have all the riches when it does. Sounds like a safer plan to turn people off to it rather than possibly face lawsuits over the scam of a religion it is. All religions are scams
I think I looked at thos show through totally different eyes after watching morman stories for 18 months.
I know no women were fond of Zack but how else would he be after being raised strictly Morman with a powerful heart surgeon dad?
As a PR specialist, I find it impressive church leadersip can talk out both sides of their mouths and maintain the membership it does. They'll be open-minded and lenient on certain things when addressing the world, but will condemn those very same things to the TBM's at General Conference. It's quite the balancing act.
PR-wise the church is a great case study.
TBM??
Did everyone coordinate the wardrobe today or did you serendipitously show up in the cutest back-to-school outfits because you’re just that aligned with each other? The vest, the stripes, the plaid. I love it all!
Hahah you’re so right!! We do all look very back-to-school. 😂
@@lyslikeswords I’m here for it.
Nobody accuses stake presidents of not really being Mormon because they have niche careers like owning three construction companies or sixty nursing homes.
While in training to become a Certified Sex Coach (which I did not complete due to finances) in 2017 in Poland, I shared a seat on a mini bus with a woman who was raised Mormon & then shared a room with her for the 5 day workshop in Poland with the trainers, I learned a lot of her hurt while practicing her faith! She became a dedicated professional who helps Mormon women unpack the trauma of their younger lives in the church.
It’s wonderful that you John are having this great discussion with your guests! 💖😊
My ex tried using religious manipulation on me when I wanted a divorce. We were married in the temple and he tried telling me that God would frown upon me for destroying a temple marriage and to that I said, I'm pretty sure God doesn't want us to live miserable lives for the sake of keeping a temple marriage together.
That divorce was the best thing I ever did, hardest thing, but best thing.
💕💕💕
@@bodytrainer1crane730 🫶🏻
Learning about child development & psychology would greatly help the Mormon community learn how to raise their children in a way that they not only can teach their children about age appropriate sex ed that could combat these tragedies, but that it would majorly remove the stigma of purity culture being so widespread.
The General authorities and church teachings are not equivalent to mental, physical, emotional, and sexual health and well-being nor should they ever be. They’re not trained and they’re not infallible!
Child development encapsulates all sorts of positive aspects that would greatly help mormon women and children from being victims, and to be properly and appropriately educated. I use these teachings with my kids today and I think it’s a win for both myself and my children.
I couldn’t imagine not knowing anything about sex until my wedding night! Talk about a nightmare 🤦♀️ the garments are wild to me but I grew up Baptist. I enjoyed the show and this video. As a never Mormon, I am fascinated learning more about this religion.
@@heathercschafer I was fairly young when I began to question the church due to personal circumstances. It wasn’t until I hit high school and took both a child development class and a psychology class that I realized what was happening and had been happening to me all along. I secretly forged my parents signature on a consent form to take one sex Ed class because I knew I needed to know more. I would say I regret it but I don’t. I regret my dishonesty but I don’t regret going to the class itself. I wound up learning about SA abuse there and that opened my eyes. I felt my entire body go cold and even that wasn’t enough to pull me out of the LDS church. I was 24 and asked to teach a lesson on the curse of Cain (look it up, YT doesn’t like the keywords being posted,) and that was my shelf-breaking moment. I left with the intention of going back someday. Now I can’t even imagine why I would go back, and I found that God doesn’t exist in religion.
Watching on replay. Britt, I’m with you. There’s no such thing as a “guilty pleasure,” you like what you like and it has no effect whatsoever on anyone else.
Fun fact : Whitney's parents were some of my foster parents when i was 17... Talk about mind blown. 😂 Seeing them and that house on tv was nuts!
Did you have to deal with Whitney? She seems to be really strange.
@@aracely909 haha she was like 12 or 11 so she didn't have as much narcissism yet. She was pretty bossy and very churchy for a 12 year old 😂
How long were you in foster care? Did you make it out ok? 😊
I think that’s it insane that they’re worried about the consequences of this show enough to make a statement when they have ignored instances of abuse like the cases of Jodi Hildebrandt/Ruby Franke and Chad Daybell/Lori Vallow.
100%
That silence ia deafening....also all the current AND ex members coming after these women and ignoring actual criminals😢
Mormon stories has done a lot of episodes concerning Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow, and Jodi Hildebrant. Just Google for those episode numbers so you can watch for yourself the reporting they’ve done. It will also lead you to other podcasters who have done more in depth analysis and coverage as well. I’m thinking of Lauren and John from Hidden True Crime podcast.
Yes!!!!!
I can not take John seriously everytime he says mormon mommys 😂
I can’t take John seriously whenever he talks
@@brycemannn4847 or talks about his MOTHER and SISTER'S sex lives like dude what are you doing? So excited to push a narrative and sound like he's in the know about women's experiences that he ends up sounding like a) a creep and b) bad at sex because he couldn't fathom a vibrator in the marital bedroom 💀
I love this discussion and love how the church put out a statement before the show even came out. Kudos to the Hulu network. Number 1 show on Hulu. 🎉🎉I’m proud of these women for just being loud. It’s time to be loud instead of hide behind closed doors.
I’d like to push back on Sam’s (very understandable) frustration with spirituality being conflated with rule following. I don’t think the obsession is with rule following , it’s an obsession with sacrificing. Sacrificing is what makes these rules “hallowed”. It’s also why reg Mormon’s feel so bitter about these characters; there’s a lot of costs to be Mormon, and these ladies seem to not have to pay the toll.
I really think there is something to this.
Also sacrificing and restricting yourself for someone or something outside of yourself is usually done with the expectation that you will be rewarded for it.
And if other people come along and they don't have to sacrifice and restrict themselves to get the same rewards or if the reward doesn't happen, it makes you bitter.
The earlier people realise that they are the only ones who can and will live their own lives the happier they will be.
This is a very astute observation. I heard the line “Satan wants you to be miserable. God wants you to sacrifice,” on the mission and it really stuck with me. Also what comes to mind is the phrase “sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven” from the hymn Praise to the Man. And then obviously the verbiage in the temple about sacrificing everything you own (and until recent changes, even your life) to the Church… it’s all a huge part of our programming. Sacrifice = blessings, happiness, access to Jesus’s atonement, etc.
Absolutely!
+
Also, the COST of garments when a woman's body is changing....it is exploitative that garments have to be worn "appropriately." I could have amassed the most phenomenal variety of VS lingerie for the amount of money I spent on garments alone. That isn't even getting into clothing that accomodates.garments.
Garments, especially for women, are the worst.
And they're poorly made. Gross
That isn't exploitative at all. It's their religion. What's exploitative is telling women they need to dress sexy when the same way can be said, women's body are changing
I finally got my resignation letter from the Mormon cult only took 8 months. But I was remarried to my best friend and nevermo. She wears lingerie, g strings, lacy panties and loves sex. My ex would only take off the bottoms. I could not see or touch her breasts because she had been sex shamed by the Mormon cult.
What? Garments are really cheap.
Great panel discussion, but I would have liked to have heard from an older woman, too. I feel like there may be a generational shift in what it means to be a mormon, because none of these women on the show come even vaguely close to what I was expected to look and act like as a very devout mormon woman when it comes to dress, WofW, language, demeanor, obedience, no employment allowed, etc. That older perspective could be a reminder that this newer type of mormon would have been exed not so very long ago.
My Mormon story is about a "good" Mormon woman who lied to the police and got me charged with two misdemeanors. I whipped it all in court representing myself, but it was aggravating that the Bishop (initially) believed a liar until she admitted she lied. (Sorry, no sex or violence involved. 🙂) I still like the Bishop,¹ but it taught me Mormons have no more discernment than my pet rock. My wife of 47 years said, "I'm never going to trust a Mormon again."
¹ I see the, now-former, Bishop occasionally, and he has no clue I'm no longer a Mormon.
My sister has been struggling with her feminine health from wearing her garments. It's been so hard to witness. She is so devoted to the faith and it's effectively hurting her self esteem and also interfering with her family planning since she has been wanting to get pregnant for over a year and can't because of this struggle. I know this isn't the main point of this episode but I felt compelled to comment bc I know she is not alone in this. Both my sisters are active endowed members and we all work together coaching gymnastics at our gym that we own and even watching them struggle with wearing their garments to work or not it's rough. They are amazing and I want to support them but sometimes I just want to tell them to stop feeling the shame
Genuine question, how are the garments affecting health? I could see them being uncomfortable but not sure how they could cause health problems. Never Mormon here so I don't have any experience wearing garments.
@ashleymatt6928 it often leads to yeast infections and uti issues and in her case the meds she has taken haven't helped. She also took out her iud in hopes to become pregnant but until these issues can be helped her doctor advised against actively trying to become pregnant. I'm sure there is more to it than I know since I have never worn garments but the mental toll has been the worst to witness. She feels so guilty not wearing them to help heal her body and feels like her body is failing her. I just love her and hate seeing her struggle
***Writing this on my husband's phone, because it's handy****
Although I'm not a Mormon and have never been one, my family descends from the Mayflower Pilgrims, marrying the French Huguenots. They were deeply religious, conservative and intermarried others of their kind. My grandmother never wore shorts or owned a pair of slacks. As a young girl in the 70s, we were not allowed to wear shorts, we had walking skirts ( below the knee).
However, I've never had to see a doctor for a yeast infection...EVER due to one magic word: VINEGAR.
You don't need Vagisil, creams, sprays, wipes to deal with that itch. The Ph of your private areas has to be very basic ( as opposed to acidic, for yeast to grow; and yes, dampness, darkness, lack of air circulation all help. You can Google it to find the exact amounts, but it isn't necessary. White or cider vinegar will help. Pour some into a warm bath, and soak in it. If it has gotten Really bad ( into your actual vaginal canal, and producing discharge, odor or itching) you can douche with water that has white vinegar added to it. If you use vinegar once a week or so, you'll keep yeast at bay, because vinegar is acidic ( C2H3O2). If the skin is slightly acidic, yeast can't grow. Trust me on this. 3 generations of women who've never suffered from this. I started doing this when I went through puberty, because even if you aren't wearing additional underwear, you still have to deal with moisture, chafing, constantly washing, while menstruating. Vinegar is your answer.
Alyssa Grenfell has a whole video on the “Mormon Mommies cleaning up on TikTok” thing. It’s fascinating!
John, I agree regarding Whitney's husband. Using the word confusion, and then apparently being able to exchange photos caused me to stop and think I was confusing Tinder with Grinder. Yes, there was enough smoke in that conversation to believe there may actually be some fire.
Yesssss this is the podcast episode I’ve be waiting for 😂 as a never Mormon it feels so funny to say I’ve been waiting to hear you have to say. My jaw was constantly on the floor. It’s everything I thought Mormonism wasn’t 😮
That's true, technically but then having been raised with Mormon kids all around me, it does reflect how the "bad" kids od tge brood would act when the pressure got to be too much. They went a little more bonkers then the average kid in teen rebellion and the "rebellion" did seem like a decade long Rumapringa
I had a Mormon friend post about the show saying that it doesn’t represent actual Mormon life… but the show looks exactly like the lives of many of my Mormon family members.
It doesn’t look like any of my Mormon friends lives…including mine.
@@dotplogger7304 your experience is not everyones
Not here in AZ!!😂 Unless they told me they (morman wives) were morman I would have NO CLUE .
The ENTIRE time I was watching the show I was thinking & hoping I rlyyyy wish Mormon stories would do an episode about this….&& here it is!!!! Psyched. I had SO many differing thoughts while watching, especially with all the stuff I’ve learned about the religion, doctrine & high control groups in general.
So glad I came across this just started watching this series; I’m not even Mormon but interested in hearing the Mormon community feedback.
You're all 10/10. What an excellent episode! Can't wait for part 2.. 🎉
I know I’m not on Catholic Stories, but I just want to say, I grew up Catholic, converted to Mormonism later in life. I didn’t know what an orgasm was until my eldest son was 3 years old. Very sad how many of us were so ignorant. I assume my mother had the same experience. Thank you for this interesting episode.
Double comment to add that now that I'm 38 and my mom is 58 we are in this great place of honesty and she recently opened up to me about all the infidelity that happened in our LDS small town. It's wild! Being faithful seemed to be more the rare thing than cheated was when my Mom was a young wife
Dakoda's behavior is really scary. He's already trying to seperate Taylor from the female confidant that doesn't like him. He's already trying to get her to doubt her judgment of her own friends. He is trying to convince her that her own perspective about friendship is wrong and his is right. He is showing classic abuser signs. I can't watch the show any more, the whole thing is just too cringy for me. But good luck Taylor.
He is a recently recovering drug addict. She's nuts for ever getting involved with him, especially with young children. It will not end well.
He reminded me of Brian Laundrie, other family annihilators.
Yes bring Sam, Alyssa and Britt back!
Why does the church own so many livestock farms? I believe it’s the simple reason that animals are a big money maker. They even own private hunting reserves, run by missionaries. There’s even one in Utah County also run by missionaries
A lot of greed within this cult.
I tells a lot about a person who are cruel to animals.
They're greedy. They want to control all the wealth, land and food that they can.
I love the British sense of humor. It matches mine pretty perfectly! 😂😂
I loved Sam’s take on the show, she had a lot of insight.
@@sherryg1838 i also really liked it. She wasnt letting john get away with anything re dakota. 😆
@@savyjett True! 😂 My impression could be wrong, but he seemed harsh towards her sometimes. I admired her moxie, she still expressed her POV.
@@sherryg1838 yeah. I was noticing that too. I dont know if he was doing that on purpose or not.
That’s my wife’s TikTok video of the breakdown of the girls. We just saw this video, today.
Reality TV brought us Donald Trump and alot of damage to the mental health of many Americans. No good is done through this nightmare genre.
So now Trump is responsible for damaging the mental health of Americans because of Apprentice? Haha. There is one in every crowd.
@@vw4822you don't see the harm he has caused to the political climate in this country? We used to have civility but it all went out the window when he came on the scene.
I agree. He promotes a level of aggression and verbal attacks, even dog whistles to incite rage, that makes his followers think it’s okay to be the same.
I throughly enjoyed this podcast!! Love it so much! Thanks John for having these sharp women share their perspective! I haven’t watched the Hulu show but will soon.
I’m with Sam. Why do we bring children into disfunction. 😞
John: Taylor's the ringleader
Whitney: screaming into the void, probably
i could listen to the four of you talk for hours. great podcast. thank you 👩🚀🛰️🚀🔭🪐
I was excited for this show but honestly it kinda turned into a horror movie.
Specifically Taylor’s situation of being pregnant and so vulnerable but was still having to fight off “submission”. Dakota even asking her to do that is so out of line.
Taylor’s mother - while not happy with Dakota still supported him in the relationship advancing to the next level. Leanne’s daughter is days away from giving birth and is still not supportive of her.
She was so scared of Dakota that night she soiled her pants and still her family (seemingly) supports him in his wishes of marriage.
The scene where she is laying in bed sobbing because he just won’t let her sleep was so scary.
The relationship felt violent and with Taylor being so visibly pregnant it made me fear for her.
😲😱 my god,, RUN AWAY TAYLOR !!!
So very accurate. A reason the LDS church put out a statemwnt, I think, is in part because between Dakota and Zac, a lot of terriying abuse is shown. The part of the DV call when she is sobbing and saying "you don't own me" let me know exactly how he had been treating her leading up to her breakdown. I watches the whole video last year, and while she did break the law, it was clear to me that he was harraunging her, pushed, her shamed her until she just completely broke down. 😢I cried during a lot of their scenes😢😢
This is interesting even for a 79-year old widower, but not surprising. My family of three had moved from a branch in Washington in the early 90's to a ward in Idaho, where over two decades, polygamy was an issue and patriotism, and real Mormon fundamentalism. For most of our 55-year marriage my wife only wore her garment when we went to the temple which was often. I was in it to win it, though my wife was never that strong, but I liked the patriarchy, which was not a good trait to follow. Not long in Idaho, I met a very pretty lady of 40, 8 years my junior, who was in a rough second marriage. I had a good marriage but my wife I would later learn was schizophrenic but not an excuse for my behavior. This lady and I became casual friends, or that's what I thought everyone knew, though we shared way to many intimacies. My wife got me to agree to see a Mormon marriage counselor on this friendship issue and the counselor said that I and my friend were having an emotional affair. Of course I denied it. We were just friends. This emotional affair with absolutely no physical touching lasted 19 years until I stopped attending church due to "Mormon Think" and "Mormon Stories".
This was hard on my wife and two of my friends' husbands during that time wanted to kill me, and her many teenage and grown children knew of this "affair" to my surprise. Her son is now the first counselor in this ward and he told me recently that he and his married sisters knew what was going on all this time. He had even wanted me to marry his mom when he was younger. She and I were both very spiritual and very active, and we spent a lot of time together with her convincing me to buy a cell phone so we could talk to each other often. My wife and I attended a temple, 4 driving hours away, more than most members in our ward, but still attractions can be strong enough that rationality enters into thinking. It was good that we were both good Mormons or else we would have gone all the way. Even this way we had talked of marriage but thought such a move would be hard on our friendship. So regardless of how members think a temple marriage keeps one pure, human sexuality and attraction can override virtue. My wife was also pretty. I now feel bad that I didn't treat her as my only love rather that being in love with two women who both knew of my feelings.
Patrick you sound really confused. You are human first regardless of what the church teaches. I don't believe you or anyone should feel guilty when you are able to connect with another human. It's beautiful! I'm glad you and this woman had each other. The church is so hypocritical on this matter. Joseph Smith can have over 30 wives and Brigham Young I think had 47. Your experience sounds like a case for consensual polygamy. It seems that the prophets were really into polygamy for sex and domination. I suggest you seek counseling from someone outside the church for a wider perspective.
I just started watching the show. I generally hate reality tv, but I LOVE the show because it’s so incredibly relatable!
This is exactly the church that I saw at BYU
That would be interesting to have some firm statistics on. Mormon temple marriage has lower divorce rate, but higher murder, swinging and non monogamy rates... ???
Replay!! I watched 3 episodes and immediately wanted to hear what MSP had to say about it!!
What a fabulous panel! Thank you!
when i was in the church i always thought it was interesting that it was completely normal for a man to wear a button up shirt that might have the garments peeking out of the top like an undershirt but if a woman’s shirt was low enough to do the same it would be a scandal 🤔 i wanted those men in turtlenecks 😂
Same with sheerness. Like it’s so fine that we can see their garments through their eyes white shirt but we need to wear an undershirt over our garments to be able to then wear a white shirt. But of course it’s this way because men (and this church REALLY loves them).
It's so sad that the church controls the sexuality of young people so tightly that it results in such repression. The only saving grace is that people marry and have children so early that they have plenty of time to experiment. I am not sure how healthy this is, but it's completely understandable.
I call BS.
Great episode. Looking forward to more discussions like this.
No comment about Lori and Chad from the church but this wakes them up!
Right...women talking about not knowing about sex, showcasing abusive husbands, women being the acknowledged breadwinners. The Scan-dahl, but family annihlators, silence.
I agree with you John. I do think the enshrined doctrine of plural marriage does play a larger part in the psyche of Mormon men. Providing a large boost in justification for exploration into interactions with other women. I can hear the thought now "since I will have more wives in the eternities, I should at least start looking now."
And in this particular case, it was the husbands intorducing alcohol and then introducing the wives doing things, then introducing the husbands swapping partners. So definitiely male led, as per usual
THIS 1938 Ep was the year I was borned. I joined the LDS church. married a BYU professor's daughter in Temple. 5yrs later
left the church and marriage. Studied Various form psychology for 10yrs to learn how to deal with child trauma involving abandonment & abuse issues by PTSD father & mentally ill mother. How I learned to truly forgive them & myself while
returning my mind to a atate of innocence, peace, joy & love, without entering another church or any organized religion again.
I heard Taylor Frankie Paul say in a podcast that the last time she went to church (which was recently) she had such anger after that she crushed an energy drink can in her hand and cut herself. What has gone on at church that left her feeling like this?
Some advice to Nemo¹: "If he wants to sue the Mormon church for defamation he should check with his lawyer to see if the law in the UK reduces damages if Nemo himself spreads the defamatory matter, such as by repeating what the church says.
I keep my life ethically clean, so if I ever get excommunicated, I may sue the Mormon church for defamation if they broadcast the ex-communication.
It seems bizarre to me that Nemo seems to believe the Mormon church is true, but he is trying to reform it. A few people can not reform a corrupt organization (compare RICO). Corrupt organizations, especially the larger or more powerful ones, must be metaphorically destroyed. They can't be saved.
If I were him I would tempt the cult to sue me. It will be a PR nightmare for the cult.
Nemo does not believe the church is true hahahahaha
Appreciated this episode! I wasn't going to watch this show but now I'm kind of interested.
I got a tattoo before I bailed. I had a wonderful little service dog that was trained for me because of my head injury. He was a small dog because it’s my head not my physical and I needed him for his brain so I got an extremely smart breed. Anyways, I had his paw print transferred to over my heart. I got it before he died as a way to honor him for all that he did for me, including saving my life multiple times. I always wear a shirt though so unless I show them, nobody knows I have it It’s more of a personal thing for me. I was very close with him and we spent every day every hour constantly together. I feel like he dedicated his life for me. Is the dog you see in my picture here?
Beautiful.
service animals are the true angels that walk among us. i’ve considered getting a tattoo for mine as well
@@sweetdestiny5301 I’ve never wanted a tattoo before, but I thought it was my way of honoring him! Every day, as I take my shirt off and look at it, it brings a smile to my face and memory of my little tank that help me conquer the world each day
I like how he said at the very beginning that he’s sure Pres Nelson is watching 😂
I was kidding.
We know mighty Prophet Nelson is watching Mormon wives.
I wonder if any Russian propaganda funding is going to the traditional wife stuff (which does include some Mormon women) on TikTok, Twitter, TH-cam, Facebook, Instagram, etc.
Good point!
The comedic genius of the show are all the pans and arial coverage of temples and chapels! The way the directors juxtapose a dramatic scene for the viewer with the “sure light and knowledge” of a temple next makes me chuckle every time. “The field is white and ready to harvest” kind of missionary work… only in reverse. 😂
Really fantastic editing.
That shirt is fantastic, John....also, it would have been smarter of the church (since they see themselves as a version of royalty) to acknowledge nothing and not give any press response whatsoever.
It blows my mind what they said about excommunication. My dad had an affair and divorced my mom. He was excommunicated for that. Back in the 1970's when they read the names in church. My dad didn't live in the same state, so my mother and I had to live through that!
Public shaming! OMG that's soooooo awful!!! If that happened top me I wish I'd be brave enough to make a huge scene. It's examples like this that make me feel Mormonism is a Poison
Exactly, Britt! Reality tv is a study in human behavior and that’s why we like it.
10’s across the board! Bring them all back plus Julie please!!!!!
Man I would LOVE to be on the panel for future discussions because I have been discussing all of this with my husband, a never Mormon, and boy do I have THOUGHTS lol. So thankful for this episode validating so much of what I've been thinking and feeling.
The version of the show " Secret Lives of Later Day Saint Housewives" ends up portraying someone like Ruby Frankie
Truly
Alyssa Grenfell made a really interesting video back in July on why Mormon mom vloggers are able to be so popular and well funded. Ad money per view is waayyy higher for Mormon content compared to other topics!
"I've never tried alcohol"
"We know John. . . 🙄"
You don't get POINTs for maintaining your repression and judgemental superiority complex. It's not "better", and is a dumb thing to constantly be pointing out.
(Also, you are awesome)
😂😂😂
Oh this panel is amazing. Brits episode here changed my life!
Seriously, they aren’t worried about being ex-communicated because more than likely the church knows how much money this can bring in for them, and for now the church quietly condones the show. Seems odd that the statement the church threw out was less than ingenious, or the girls would already be excommunicated.
Having a mom from Ecuador doesn’t make you a woman of colour. I don’t know why Americans don’t get that there’s white people south of America. My Mom is from Chile & I’m white. Now I don’t know her mom maybe she’s brown but her daughter looks white, so I’m guessing her mom is white.
It’s not that Americans don’t get it. It’s that those white people south of America often like to pretend that they are not.
I am Portuguese and it's similar. I am white but one of my brothers is deep brown. That's pretty common in Portugal but in comparison the Zac's family.... Jen has lots more color. And they definitely don't see her as white.
The Snowflake AZ temple does have a stained glass piece depicting Jesus with little children. but it is inside and back-lit, so there's no way to see it from outside. I think other temples have similar pieces. It seems very intentional that they do not have these beautiful pieces on the outside walls. It boths hides any similarity that the LDS church has to Catholisism, and reserves the ability to enjoy this art to the elite "temple worthy" members.
Hey y’all, just wanted to add that it is a little bit different with Judaism because it is also an ethnicity. So, when someone says they are Jewish, they could simply mean by blood. It’s not necessarily just cultural or religious.
I will say some could argue that there are ethnoreligious Mormon groups, such as in Utah, simply because groups of people migrated and settled together and interbred.
I was going to say the same thing. You can tell by a genetics test that you are Jewish but can’t do that with Mormon. Judaism is the Jewish religion and not all Jewish people follow Judaism.
Exactly like the Jews.
(Give it another 400 years.
@@SacredDreamertotally understand where you’re coming from and I’m inclined to agree with you. I just wanted to emphasize this point because mischaracterizing Judaism and Jewishness as solely religious/cultural leads to a lot of misunderstanding. Racial “purity” was a heavy component of antisemitism in the Holocaust, so it’s important to be aware of that component of Jewishness. Otherwise, people can be quick to assume that Jewish people are equivalent to white Europeans, which is not true (not to mention the various Jewish ethnic groups throughout Asia and Africa).
@@chloecagle6493 it's in the Mothers Blood , not the skin colour.
Tamar must be the bloodline - with her twin boys Perez and Zerah ...
@@SacredDreamerI agree that it’s not about skin color. I’m saying some people have that misunderstanding.
There are many older chapels in Utah & Idaho that have stained glass windows. The chapel I attended, growing up, has beautiful stained glass windows. But, ya’ll are correct that it is geometric or nature scenes, not biblical. The “B” role shots that I found interesting were the shots of crosses & some other Christian artifacts that are not “Mormon”.
I know SLC very well. The main "chapel" they show its the Cathedral of the Madeline on about 100 South 200 east or so. They show it over and over and it's NOT mormon
I happen to have known Jen and her family for a good part of her life. I love their family. Jen wanted to be famous throughout those years I knew their family. Her parents always supported her in those dreams.
Well…they got their wish!
As a quaker who chooses to wear a bonnet on an almost daily basis, I find it is true what you all said about other things being a symbol of faith, and that forcing folks to wear garments is absolutely ridiculous and harmful. The symbol of my faith is a hat that I get to choose to wear. Other symbols of my quaker faith are quaker t-shirts, pins, buttons, jewelry, traditional clothing, or just being a nice person who does their best to see the good in others. (FYI: it is an optional tradition to wear a hat or bonnet, and most quakers no longer opt to wear them, and opt instead to use other symbols or no symbol at all to show their faith)
A lot of Evangelicals or Protestants will say that if you left then you were never really a Christian.
John you hit the nail on the head with the church pointing fingers at the ones who fall away and have problems in life as the example of what happens when we leave. I feel I’m often that example in my family cuz of my past problems with alcohol. It’s so hard to build any credibility back with them now that I’m sober. Ugh 😅
I really like Mayci. I had seen that she got pregnant out of wedlock and became a widow. Was a college athlete. I think that's probably why she is so self aware and comes across very mature. I actually liked most of them quite a bit. Whitney was a little tough for me, but I'm sure that comes from her upbringing and I hope she gets some insight and grows. Their group would be a little exhausting to be a part of though. Idk if I could do it. Looks kind of fun, but also a bit toxic at times.
After 2 episodes I stopped watching. I don’t want to support their life style in any way by watching them on TV or social media or buying anything they are offering. They are making up stuff to exploit the public into paying for plastic surgery and hair extensions. I can’t be a part of it. I feel the same way about many other reality tv stars.
I've been dying to have a good discussion around this show. Also a Brit 🇬🇧 that killed my sarcasm due to misinterpretation and LOVES reality TV.
Ohhh I've been waiting for this one ❤
I knew a lot about the "mom tok" bs at least a year ago because Jordan and Mckay spent a decent amount of time covering it. It's a whole lot.
I don’t plan to watch it, but I enjoy hearing about it second-hand. Are Mormon women supposed to keep their hair long? Is it about being “appropriately feminine?”
No, they are promoting extensions.
Me neither. Not interested in watching this show. Not a fan of reality tv, in general. And I’ve had enough of seeing Mormon women looking like sexy Stepford Wives and being objectified by the men in their lives. I did enjoy hearing about the garments and what they do to women’s health. I was only in the church for 4 years as a teen. I remember non-Mormon kids from school and even later as a young adult, telling me that Mormons can’t wear red and they have magical underwear. I vehemently denied all this and told them they don’t know what they’re talking about. I had never heard of garments at that point! I know they were wrong about the color red (that’s a FLDS rule), but I guess they were right about the underwear. What’s concerning to me, is all the secrets. Why had I never heard of garments the four years I was in the church? Why were temple activities a secret, also? It’s silly that such important parts of faith are kept hidden under wraps even to their own members. How can there be informed consent when there are so many secrets? It makes the religion feel more like a cult.
The show actually does have depth . The women discuss not knowing about sex, being afraid to have an orga**, 2 deeply abusive relationships are ahiwn, complicated dynamics of a male centered culture when it's the moms making the household money and other things that do have depth and value
Yes, absolutely
It’s just hard when woman have been shamed for not being modest for decades so it is hard to look at their dress and think this is a representation of Mormon when as a non believer in my rural Utah town I was shamed for showing my shoulders
Their whole point is that they refuse to conform to those rules. And they do struggle with being shamed. I personally don't wear clothes like that but the whole point is they can wear what they want. I have a fundamentally Muslim neighbor and he is an as* but I purposefully wear my hair down and don't cover my arms around him because he doesn't have the right to judge or shame me. I am so sorry for your experiences😢if you can, try to mentally frame your bare shoulders as a sign of strength
I know people who believe that self pleasuring is worse than sex outside of marriage. Not joking.
Sex before marriage in any religion goes on.
based Islam knows how to deal with it
John, without seeing any other sources, my impression of Connor, too, was that it was not Tinder, but Grindr that he was on. I would not be surprised and do not think that you were wrong for mentioning the idea.
Yet we must all be careful. No one has the right to out anyone especially on a podcast that talks about suicidality so much.
Mormonism is not a denomination of Christianity, just to be clear. They are not the same. The Moroni is not the Bible. And there are CLEAR differences between the two religion.
No religion is perfect, some may say Christianity is culty and I could see that from aspects of it, but it is NOT like Mormonism.
51:00 I just want to mention that Taylor has said does not remember the night she broke the boundary because she was so drunk. I think there’s unfortunately a sadder side to this than most people, even Taylor may not yet realize.
Ok very glad this gets addressed 🙏🏻
To respond to your question about why Mormon women are dominating the algorithms, Alyssa Grendeld did a video about how the Mormon Church is pumping money into the advertising. It’s fascinating!!
I personally love this show as a counter to the trad wife nonsense.
Divorce stigma is real. A friend took his life before he would be divorced in front of family. And he was swinging and having feelings for others. So why would it matter? But it did. So sad
Wondering if Lori Vallow is wearing her garments!!😇😇😇
Wasn't at her arrest!
10-15 years ago when I was a church leader the statistic we talked about regarding the married couple, with a family, that goes to the temple (what was referred to as the Ensign family) was cited as 5%. I was called to serve single adults at the time, which were a large percentage of Mormon households.
Yeast was a problem. For lots of women with the garments. It was awful.
Now that Dallin Oaks has called for more excommunications, these women may find themselves in a pickle they didn’t anticipate.
And a COLLEGE PROFESSOR told a young woman how to conduct her married sex life?!? That would be a firing offense at any other university today. Yikes.
They have to seek repentance first to get their "helpful" punishment. I think oakes is only seeking more excommunication for the faithful
Britt is very intelligent and a wealth of knowledge.
Enjoyed the episode!
Anyone else find it odd that this panel of, all but 1, women spends a lot of time talking about the men in the show? They speak as if they know the men, but very little time is spent showing them or providing background. Yet they discuss them as if the men are just the stereotypical male of the patriarchy. No nuance allowed or even considered. It’s one thing to talk about Mormon culture in general terms, but to then apply those generalities to the individuals, knowing little to nothing about them, seems very inconsiderate and inappropriate. But hey, I’m just a man, what do I know.
I’ve been so excited to hear your take lol
Brit is very articulate. I enjoy listening to her.
I recently found this channel and Cult to Consciousness, my fiancée asking for historical proof of the Book of Mormon, and then decided to leave the church. As a covert living on opposite coast of the Mormon belt, wedding dress shopping to cover garments has a nightmare because the current look is more skin. I would find a front and sleeve that worked but then not a full black.
I am an atheist, I have officially resigned my membership from the SLC based sect of Mormonism, my heritage is several generations of Mormons, and I consider myself culturally Mormon.
I was so waiting for john to tell us som swinger stories! 😂
John, it's dangerous to speculate about someone's sexual preference. It's not our place to out anyone.
Dude outed himself
The older chapels in downtown SLC had a bit of stained glass and murals, similar to the temple. I grew up in downtown SLC. As some chapels have been torn down, we've lost a lot of that beauty.
Please can you have Jordan and Mckay on the next SLOMW panel? Thanks