This is so joyous because they are actually EXPLAINING how it works! I have an Bach example of the new Precise Temperament Tuning in my video, “Frank explains his Acoustification recording process.” _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole_ loves your music!
I really, really like the monosyllabic semi/sesqui accidentals idea. Seems like something students will use if they ever need to learn their diatonic scales in microtonal keys too...
That's exactly the idea, we want to be able to communicate without having to twist our tongues. If our goal is wide-spread adoption, we Xen-heads need to make every part of microtonality at *least* as approachable as 12-TET.
I propose for the French "translation" these equivalents : Shat = "Mièse" ("demi-dièse") / Flarp = "Nomol" ("demi-bémol") / Fries = "Trièse" ("trois-quart de dièse") / Heart = Trémol ("trois-quart de bémol")
Hey Anna, thanks for your comment! We may not be native English speakers, but we are aware of the linguistic overlap between our nomenclature and the verb in question ;) We think the juxtaposition of the academic seriousness and rigor with which we try to communicate microtonality on the one hand and the colloquial expressions (also referenced in this video's title) on the other is funny :) If that humor's not down your alley, that's fine, we certainly don't want to put you off microtonality, just ignore it and say half-sharp ;)
@@HearBetweenTheLines i feel like "shlat" might be a better alternative because some native english speakers might feel a rather visceral response to "shat"
personally i would do (from flattest to sharpest): dent, flat, faint, natural, hat, sharp, clust flat is a straight line, sharp is a spike, natural is in between, and fill in the rest of the blanks pretty much. Clust is because the sound vibrations are "clustered" towards each other (not literally but by clustered i mean the wave has more frequency than sharp) Edit: the main goal is to make it so that the word actually sounds like it does. if you would base it on taste (flat taste is kinda underwhelming, sharp taste is overwhelming, natural is alright) then you could come up with words as well. Vowels also help in identifying, a spectrum with i, e, a, u, and o. flint, flat, soot, natural, sush, sharp, spick (inspired by taste as well as vowel usage)
I feel like the issue of different key signatures when using only the harmonic series (1:26) could've been further elaborated on. You jumped directly into x-tet/x-edo but I think a more natural approach to the conversation would be to talk about why the inconsistencies arise when switching keys. I'm not sure if you're familiar with 'fluid' just intonation but that's a potential solution to switching key signatures . It involves modulating the base pitch of the composition relative to the last chord played, so that a movement from a C Maj chord to G Maj chord for example, as a perfect fourth, 3/2 ratio following the harmonic series, the base note would start at middle C (approx 261.630 Hz) and move to G (approx 392.445 Hz) or 498.0449991 Cents up from middle C. The modulation would follow the overtone series and then the G major chord would be in G major's just intonation. It wouldn't be the same G major that equal tempered gives you because the base pitch is off by about 2 cents, so it gives it a different, and unique sound. th-cam.com/video/IKjNIBEGtVc/w-d-xo.html here's an example of such a composition as it modulates across multiple chords. Some also call this Free Just Intonation. THEN you should go into x-tet/x-edo
great video again guys, meme at 2:17 got me haha Does the pythagorean comma stem from pythagoras? cant afford another patreon endorsment right now but I really like the style of your videos!
No fret! That's what we're here for. Or a lot of frets might also do the job, depending on your limit. Did that help? Otherwise you could just wait a bit and watch the video... ;)
If you want to play in tune, you will find it only in Extended Pythagorean tuning. That is why I believe they said once you take the blue pill and listen to a 5/4 interval it is all over. The blue pill is the one that puts you back to sleep. The red pill in the analogy of the movie is the one that awakens. The 5/4 "third" is flat (blue pill) of the just major third of 81/64 (red pill). If you want real music, that is rightly in tune, even for chords, it is Pythagorean tuning. Pythagoras also did not invent the tuning, so I just call it True Intonation, because that is what it is and the term "just intonation" is already a word loaded with too much baggage. 12 tet does not mimic the overtone series, it mimics True Intonation if you were limited to only 12 notes per octave. True Intonation gets it's tuning by the series of powers of 2 in relation to powers of 3's . This pattern is set up in the foundation of the overtone series. The blue pill truly is the 5/4 major third. It surely puts people in ignorance and in a wrong path of thinking and it inevitably ends up in playing out of tune, no matter what tuning system you end up in. The 5/4 is NOT a major third, it is the fifth harmonic. A major third is 4 perfect fifths down two octaves. And if your foundational fifths are pure and just at a 3:2 ratio, than the major third is 81/64. This is IN TUNE. EVEN IN CHORDS. The people telling otherwise are lying, conditioned to "not prefer it" or are hypnotized by the often repeated lie. Examples on my channel, with more to come, Lord willing.
"die-E-sis". Nice. Lol at that big facebook discussion regarding pronunciation, and you guys end up agreeing with a handful of us. Hope Mike sees this.
Hahaha, we had already recorded it by then. We would've probably preferred the greek pronunciation, but we just didn't think about it at the time... ^^ Oh well.
I love how you called the different alterations. In Italy, since the 1970s, we have called it: monesis (a quarter-tone higher), triesis (three quarter-tone higher), mobemol (a quarter tone lower), tribemol (three quarter-tone lower). Btw, good journey, guys!
Thanks! Interesting italian naming conventions, never heard of them before, I especially like mobemol haha, is it supposed to be a conglomerate of mono and bemol?
I loved the wolf tone, made me lol :D The one part that I thought could be a little clearer/more detailed is TET vs EDO, and also just ET, since none of them are quite exactly the same thing. All TETs are ETs, and all EDOs are TETs, but some ETs are neither of the other two, like Wendy Carlos's tunings. I personally think it's an important distinction that Western music is based in 12EDO rather than 12TET, in consideration of pure octaves. But I understand this might be a little controversial or outside the scope of this video.
@@HearBetweenTheLines I personally prefer the name 12edo or even better 12ed2 because it is more explicit, like how 13tet could mean 13ed2 or 13ed3 Love this series by the way, thank you for making the microtonal world a more welcoming place :D
@@phlimy Hmm, makes sense in writing, but it's still janky to say, right? And that's kind of our problem with a lot of the microtonal nomenclature at the moment...
@@HearBetweenTheLines I just like "12-equal", it's easy, catchy, non-technical, and seems to make sense colloquially. I never say the words "ee-doh" or "tett" unless I'm talking to someone who is already far down the microtonal wormhole. When actually saying those words, I still spell them out, E-D-O, because it feels much less alien.
James' music as always fits brilliantly at the end. Packed full of memes. And I do like the new half-sharp and half-flat names, a bit of humour is always great. I like the simplicity and single-syllable-ness of those names, though unsure how much I would use them myself. Wonder if they'll catch on... On a more serious note, of course these accidentals are directly applicable wherever the sharp/apotome is divided into two equal parts, so 10, 17, 20, 24, 27, 30, 31, 34, 37 (a bit strangely), 38, 41, 44, 45, 48EDOs, however I wonder if you also use "shat", "flarp". "fries" and "heart" anywhere else, e.g. as 2/5- or 3/5-sharp in 53EDO, for example, or would you use other comma accidentals there?
That's actually a song of mine (Rami). :) But thanks! They seem to be slowly catching on, some institutions are already using them now, much to our amusement :D It would probably make sense to go sagittal for 53, right? We don't pretend to be experts on this matter however, people like Mike, Stephen and you are so much more advanced concerning all EDOs that aren't 24 or 31 (but probably also there...) :D
@@HearBetweenTheLines Oh, oops!!! It reminded me so much of this, and I'd heard you insert James' music here I just assumed. Cool crossover style though! th-cam.com/video/S0WmAy8Z_H4/w-d-xo.html
@@HearBetweenTheLines For 53 I just use the comma, usually just like this \ (down) and / (up), alongside regular sharps and flats. It's just a shame "up-up E-flat" is not quite as catchy as "E-flarp"
As an early music guy who loves 1/4 comma meantone, I'm finding that meantone is a gateway to microtonal music. Here's some microtonal baroque music. th-cam.com/video/6GC-AdqiuoU/w-d-xo.html
This is so joyous because they are actually EXPLAINING how it works!
I have an Bach example of the new Precise Temperament Tuning in my video, “Frank explains his Acoustification recording process.”
_The Acoustic Rabbit Hole_ loves your music!
I really, really like the monosyllabic semi/sesqui accidentals idea. Seems like something students will use if they ever need to learn their diatonic scales in microtonal keys too...
That's exactly the idea, we want to be able to communicate without having to twist our tongues. If our goal is wide-spread adoption, we Xen-heads need to make every part of microtonality at *least* as approachable as 12-TET.
@@HearBetweenTheLines story of my life... C fries E fries B fries
I propose for the French "translation" these equivalents : Shat = "Mièse" ("demi-dièse") / Flarp = "Nomol" ("demi-bémol") / Fries = "Trièse" ("trois-quart de dièse") / Heart = Trémol ("trois-quart de bémol")
@@sonobildo7415Italian/Russian here :)
diesaccio/диезаччо - shat
bemaccio/бемаччо - flarp
diesone/диезоне - fries
bemone/бемоне - heart
"shat" has an unfortunate alternate meaning as the past tense of a common curse meaning 'to defecate'.
Hey Anna, thanks for your comment!
We may not be native English speakers, but we are aware of the linguistic overlap between our nomenclature and the verb in question ;) We think the juxtaposition of the academic seriousness and rigor with which we try to communicate microtonality on the one hand and the colloquial expressions (also referenced in this video's title) on the other is funny :)
If that humor's not down your alley, that's fine, we certainly don't want to put you off microtonality, just ignore it and say half-sharp ;)
@@HearBetweenTheLines i feel like "shlat" might be a better alternative because some native english speakers might feel a rather visceral response to "shat"
WAFFLES NOT FRIES
WAFFLES NOT FRIES
WAFFLES NOT FRIES
Not monosyllabic, #sorrynotsorry :D
@@HearBetweenTheLines in the right American accent I can get it down to one syllable
personally i would do (from flattest to sharpest): dent, flat, faint, natural, hat, sharp, clust
flat is a straight line, sharp is a spike, natural is in between, and fill in the rest of the blanks pretty much. Clust is because the sound vibrations are "clustered" towards each other (not literally but by clustered i mean the wave has more frequency than sharp)
Edit: the main goal is to make it so that the word actually sounds like it does. if you would base it on taste (flat taste is kinda underwhelming, sharp taste is overwhelming, natural is alright) then you could come up with words as well. Vowels also help in identifying, a spectrum with i, e, a, u, and o. flint, flat, soot, natural, sush, sharp, spick (inspired by taste as well as vowel usage)
This is super interesting, we'll definitely consider your thoughts on this matter. Thanks for sharing!
@@HearBetweenTheLines no problem. Next step: make microtonal music mainstream :))))))
This is so much better. It feels like “shat” and “fries” are just jokes
@@eboone , yes "shat" sounds like something someone did to their pants
I feel like the issue of different key signatures when using only the harmonic series (1:26) could've been further elaborated on. You jumped directly into x-tet/x-edo but I think a more natural approach to the conversation would be to talk about why the inconsistencies arise when switching keys. I'm not sure if you're familiar with 'fluid' just intonation but that's a potential solution to switching key signatures . It involves modulating the base pitch of the composition relative to the last chord played, so that a movement from a C Maj chord to G Maj chord for example, as a perfect fourth, 3/2 ratio following the harmonic series, the base note would start at middle C (approx 261.630 Hz) and move to G (approx 392.445 Hz) or 498.0449991 Cents up from middle C. The modulation would follow the overtone series and then the G major chord would be in G major's just intonation. It wouldn't be the same G major that equal tempered gives you because the base pitch is off by about 2 cents, so it gives it a different, and unique sound.
th-cam.com/video/IKjNIBEGtVc/w-d-xo.html
here's an example of such a composition as it modulates across multiple chords. Some also call this Free Just Intonation.
THEN you should go into x-tet/x-edo
great video again guys, meme at 2:17 got me haha
Does the pythagorean comma stem from pythagoras?
cant afford another patreon endorsment right now but I really like the style of your videos!
Hi... Um, I'm wondering how to use microtones to, you know, "spice up" my Jazz harmonies. Can you help?
No fret! That's what we're here for.
Or a lot of frets might also do the job, depending on your limit.
Did that help? Otherwise you could just wait a bit and watch the video... ;)
@@HearBetweenTheLines totally!
Thank you for this. It really inspires me, especially in combination with Alois Hábas microtonal string quartets.
Glad you enjoy it, thanks a lot!
This is a DEEP rabbit hole indeed!!!
0:34 i think i spent a good 3 minutes laughing at this piano
This video explained to me such an important thing - where the golden ratio is (or rather was) in music and how it got out of there
Totally... Spiral of fifths! (and all the other spirals you can make with the other prime-overtones!)
If you want to play in tune, you will find it only in Extended Pythagorean tuning. That is why I believe they said once you take the blue pill and listen to a 5/4 interval it is all over. The blue pill is the one that puts you back to sleep. The red pill in the analogy of the movie is the one that awakens. The 5/4 "third" is flat (blue pill) of the just major third of 81/64 (red pill).
If you want real music, that is rightly in tune, even for chords, it is Pythagorean tuning. Pythagoras also did not invent the tuning, so I just call it True Intonation, because that is what it is and the term "just intonation" is already a word loaded with too much baggage.
12 tet does not mimic the overtone series, it mimics True Intonation if you were limited to only 12 notes per octave. True Intonation gets it's tuning by the series of powers of 2 in relation to powers of 3's . This pattern is set up in the foundation of the overtone series.
The blue pill truly is the 5/4 major third. It surely puts people in ignorance and in a wrong path of thinking and it inevitably ends up in playing out of tune, no matter what tuning system you end up in. The 5/4 is NOT a major third, it is the fifth harmonic. A major third is 4 perfect fifths down two octaves. And if your foundational fifths are pure and just at a 3:2 ratio, than the major third is 81/64. This is IN TUNE. EVEN IN CHORDS. The people telling otherwise are lying, conditioned to "not prefer it" or are hypnotized by the often repeated lie.
Examples on my channel, with more to come, Lord willing.
"die-E-sis". Nice. Lol at that big facebook discussion regarding pronunciation, and you guys end up agreeing with a handful of us. Hope Mike sees this.
Hahaha, we had already recorded it by then. We would've probably preferred the greek pronunciation, but we just didn't think about it at the time... ^^ Oh well.
I love how you called the different alterations. In Italy, since the 1970s, we have called it: monesis (a quarter-tone higher), triesis (three quarter-tone higher), mobemol (a quarter tone lower), tribemol (three quarter-tone lower). Btw, good journey, guys!
Thanks! Interesting italian naming conventions, never heard of them before, I especially like mobemol haha, is it supposed to be a conglomerate of mono and bemol?
@@HearBetweenTheLines yes, it’s really funny. Mono-bemol!
0:33A piano for playing Mary Had A Little Lamb😂😂😂😂
Hahahaha
7.5 minutes of awesome. You guys rock
I loved the wolf tone, made me lol :D
The one part that I thought could be a little clearer/more detailed is TET vs EDO, and also just ET, since none of them are quite exactly the same thing. All TETs are ETs, and all EDOs are TETs, but some ETs are neither of the other two, like Wendy Carlos's tunings. I personally think it's an important distinction that Western music is based in 12EDO rather than 12TET, in consideration of pure octaves. But I understand this might be a little controversial or outside the scope of this video.
Totally. We kind of hinted at it by saying 'mostly the octave'.
But what's the difference between 12EDO and 12TET? We're all ears!
@@HearBetweenTheLines I personally prefer the name 12edo or even better 12ed2 because it is more explicit, like how 13tet could mean 13ed2 or 13ed3
Love this series by the way, thank you for making the microtonal world a more welcoming place :D
@@phlimy Hmm, makes sense in writing, but it's still janky to say, right? And that's kind of our problem with a lot of the microtonal nomenclature at the moment...
@@phlimy But thanks a lot! We really appreciate the discourse and the nice comments!
@@HearBetweenTheLines I just like "12-equal", it's easy, catchy, non-technical, and seems to make sense colloquially. I never say the words "ee-doh" or "tett" unless I'm talking to someone who is already far down the microtonal wormhole. When actually saying those words, I still spell them out, E-D-O, because it feels much less alien.
episode 3 shat
Hahaha, totally
6:35 isn't it half sharp, not quarter? i think you combined "quarter tone" and "half sharp" together
Whoopsie, you're absolutely right, wrong labels!
@@HearBetweenTheLines don't worry, just a micronitpick (bad joke)
6:46 ಠ_ಠ
...I'm not gonna call it that
Hey, no one's forcing you ;)
James' music as always fits brilliantly at the end. Packed full of memes. And I do like the new half-sharp and half-flat names, a bit of humour is always great. I like the simplicity and single-syllable-ness of those names, though unsure how much I would use them myself. Wonder if they'll catch on...
On a more serious note, of course these accidentals are directly applicable wherever the sharp/apotome is divided into two equal parts, so 10, 17, 20, 24, 27, 30, 31, 34, 37 (a bit strangely), 38, 41, 44, 45, 48EDOs, however I wonder if you also use "shat", "flarp". "fries" and "heart" anywhere else, e.g. as 2/5- or 3/5-sharp in 53EDO, for example, or would you use other comma accidentals there?
That's actually a song of mine (Rami). :) But thanks!
They seem to be slowly catching on, some institutions are already using them now, much to our amusement :D
It would probably make sense to go sagittal for 53, right? We don't pretend to be experts on this matter however, people like Mike, Stephen and you are so much more advanced concerning all EDOs that aren't 24 or 31 (but probably also there...) :D
@@HearBetweenTheLines Oh, oops!!! It reminded me so much of this, and I'd heard you insert James' music here I just assumed. Cool crossover style though! th-cam.com/video/S0WmAy8Z_H4/w-d-xo.html
@@HearBetweenTheLines For 53 I just use the comma, usually just like this \ (down) and / (up), alongside regular sharps and flats. It's just a shame "up-up E-flat" is not quite as catchy as "E-flarp"
@@camtaylormusic Sounds like you're looking for E flup xD
James is amazing, so no problem :)
Loving your lumatone stuff, btw!
@@HearBetweenTheLines Rami and Freddi got that secret sauce! The guitars sound so lush
I want the background music.
❤ for this, the language isn't yet ready for 53-edo, so it's fine...
Absolutely, but I think we need to do something about that soon, it's such a beautiful tuning system, I wanna play in it!
As an early music guy who loves 1/4 comma meantone, I'm finding that meantone is a gateway to microtonal music. Here's some microtonal baroque music. th-cam.com/video/6GC-AdqiuoU/w-d-xo.html
Great stuff. Meantone is the meanest! ;)
🤯🍟♥️
"Flarp" was a little friendly monster in an episode of "The Smurfs"!
I nearly shat myself when I heard the mention lol
You 'shat' yourself hahahaha
Great story :D