Fully agree. NO chinese crap for me, thanks. Now a new hybrid Freelander III made in England, and as rugged as can be, THAT is interesting. And please keep it under 1700 kilo, as the road tax on the big ones are crazy. Nearly 3000 gbp per year for a Defender or a Discovery 3-4. The idea of a working mans working car is long gone. Hence the new Freelander. But if it going to be chinese (and we all know what that means), and just another smartened up baby defender for shopping moms, then forget it. We want the real deal. Example: jsut yesterday, I installed a new bonnet sensor on my Freelaner, and unfortunately, I had an aftermarket version (which somewhat resembled the original one), advertised as an original Land Rover one, but sadly far from that, and I spent some 4 hours modifying it to make it work... Out of shape, leaf spring all wrong shaped, mounting holes all wrong positioned, so it couldn't catch properly and also not able to free the switch, so all sorted now. And price was actually 6 gbp more than an original one. Just so, that JLR have this major repositioning of all of their ware houses, and since it's been going on for over a year now, and still not finished, that was the part that could be delivered via an alternative Land Rover parts dealer. Utterly and bad made chinese crap. I will, and I mean that, order an original one, and throw the chinese crap on the fire in the garden asap. - Badly made parts. - Unstable long term. - Sure to catch fire based on chinese batteries. - Shutting down the Eutopean working force. - no resell value in 6 months. - infamous chinese factories supplying spares for the next 3 or 4 decades? Highly unlikely. - shinese spyware all over the car. - low grade batteries and no proper fuel for when you are out and about, away from public roads and chargers. - ultra low security in crash test/crashes. - securing chinese economy, when they are expanding their terror regime and public surveilance and even having illegal chinese "police stations" all over towns in the UK? - helping to shut down European economy and society? And helping china to support terror regimes and invading countries? I think not. NO thanks. NO way. So a chinese made all electric Freelander III? No thanks! Cheers.
Really hope that there is a Discovery 6. The D3/4 were the best cars LR made in my opinion. The D5 never cut it and Defender, as good as it is, isn't a replacement. Hopefully it'll have a proper split tailgate.
There already is a D6 - it's the 'Defender' with a silly design literally bolted ontop of it.. :) My opinion ofc.. I used to own a D4 - so sad and dissapointed with the D6 ('Defender')..
@@bluenapalm123 I have a L663 Defender and having owned four D3/4 I can categorically state that it is definitely not a Discovery replacement in any shape or form. Such is the fact that I’m looking at buying a Euro 6 D4 to replace my Defender.
As someone who lived and breathed Laandrovers for 30 odd years, I am now ambivalent towards this brand, but it is nice to see their Q1 revenue is healthy.
I have a 2019 Disco 5, the 3 litre diesel and I love it! Luxurious but also a capable off roader. And I don’t want to tempt fate but in 2 years of ownership I’ve never had a problem with it!Hopefully they do release a new Discovery!!
Thanks for the update Simon, not too sure about the shirt though 😮 Land Rover should put some money into car security to stop all the bad press they are getting.
Interesting video Simon, thanks. I'm still spemding too much money with PowerfulUK as I personalise my D4-Landmark, though I did get the Clover wind deflectors as they go the full length of both doors and look like a single unit (very smart). I did spot the most expensive D4 on the road on Saturday. It had a green-striped number plate, so the owner had obviously done the conversion to fully electric - and that costs over £100k as far as I am aware - looked great! Though, personally, I don't like the low milage of electric vehicles and the problems and costs of recharging when you are away from home. No good for me when I am doing a 1,200 mile cross Europe journey.
Apologies for asking a question not relating to your video, maybe you have had this problem, I have 2017 Disco Sport L550 in which the motor for the power steering failed due to water ingress, I replaced it with a used motor (which has not been coded as yet) and it is making a horrendous screeching noise when the steering wheel is turned. Have you ever heard of this?
And very sorry to hear that Recaro, by far the Worlds best car seats, are under threat. So, I really hope they will remain. I've had Recaro in all my cars, and I've always been supported in a superb way. Not like so many other car seats, which are either too hard, too sloppy and no support, really. Chinese new Freelander? Yuck! I'd prefer a UK based and made one. My Freelander is made in England. And I would prefer a hybrid anyway. Kind regards.
Hello Simon. A new EV Freelander from China?….not sure how well that will sell to old LR customers but if it looks good and works well then it might work. I agree you would need one of those on the fleet! I’m pleased you decided the Octa was too much of a risk..I could not see you selling a great deal of products to owners who will only buy to resell or just store….but you could use the faithful Stig as a base for OCTA design features! Well done on getting that number plate…JLR must have been fast asleep not to have spotted that one. I think you might sell it on for £30/35,000+ to a well heeled new owner! INEOS is in a strange place…I’m amazed they have sold 35,000 of them so far as those I have seen have been of very low quality build standards…a lot of money for a car with too much old technology and outdated engines. As for JLR…the plan to go Premium only and even “ sale by invitation “ was utterly stupid…as you say, they need to sell to old, normal income LR enthusiasts in a approachable way…a Freelander for £35/40,000 would work…but a Chinese EV version might struggle for a while yet. Enough! Take car, Richard😃😃😃😃
Not sure where to get accurate sales figures for the Ineos from...I think the Range Rover going up market makes sense but i think they need to consider Defender customers as a different breed....
@@L663 According to Wikipedia, this seems to be the case In July 2024, news reports surfaced that Recaro Automotive had filed for bankruptcy and was subsequently approved for self-administration by a German court.[17] The bankruptcy doesn't affect the aircraft, train and gaming chair divisions.
I think Ienos read the tea leaves on the EV market and pulled before spending wads of money. I suspect they will revamp and come out with a hybrid compact at some point. 95% of the taxis here in Vancouver are hybrids, they just make sense and work. As for the Discovery, just chatting to a lady with her kids in a Disco 5, she loves it, but hates the huge repair bills from the dealer. I put her in touch with a couple of good local shops that won't use the parts cannon on her. So if they want the family to buy them, reliability and driving affordability should be high on the list.
It would be better if manufacturers built vehicles customers actually want. Not the rubbish that is made today. EVs / hybrids/ self charging rubbish. Most customers want proper straight diesel or petrol engines, less toys, just normal vehicles that will last 20+ yrs with regular servicing. With modern vehicles scrapped at 3 yrs, not very environmentally friendly . 😢
Hi Simon……. The electric car bubble has imploded!!!!! Elon is discounting heavily…. In Australia you don’t have to preorder the Tesla Model….. they’re sitting on the wharves around the country…. As you stated Fischer has gone!!! I recently saw a photograph of an electric car charger in rural Queensland that was connected to a diesel generator!!! And so many Chinese electric car manufacturers flooding the market and driving prices down….. But JLR has got me stuffed……. Jaguar is going all electric!!!! I think that they have missed the boat!!! Land Rover have just launched the OCTA Defender…..massive V8 and the fastest defender yet!!!! Strange??? And now aluminium is in sort supply, hence JLR can’t manufacture their vehicles!!!! And the Japanese sharemarket has just tanked and Bitcoin has fallen through the floor!!! Interesting times….. Regards Ian 👨🎤🇳🇿👍🍸🍸
I think it will be replaced.... it is afterall a key part of their "house of Brands" Jaguar / Defender / Range Rover and Discovery. More interesting is that Evoque and Velar and Discovery Sport did not get a mention in the presentation.
I have a theory that the L663 Defender was originally intended to be the Discovery 5. However, due to the backlash from the Defender being discontinued in 2016, they pivoted and named it the Defender instead. The vehicle we got as the Discovery 5 seemed like it could have easily been a part of the Range Rover lineup. Personally I love the D3 and D4 shape which is what led me to buy an L663, its like a bigger version.
My hopes were raised and dashed within the first 90 seconds of this vlog Simon. Guts me that car companies re-use the old names for cars that bear no resemblance to their forefathers. Viva, Mustang, Defender, Capri and now Freelander to name just a few. #gutted P.S. Bin the Octa order and get a Grenadier instead.
@L663 Ish. Not as much as the Grenadier does 😉 For me and many others the new Defender was really the heir to the Disco 4. Still, not like LR listen to their old customers anyway...😥
The discovery 5 looks like an updated freelander anyway. LR need to get back to basics, with the Discovery and defender. Cut out all the computers used to run them.
From the presentation they seem to be pushing max sales $ per unit... and going for hyper luxury ! I think they will intentionally leave a lot of Land Rover owners behind - although they could be buyers of used Defenders as prices fall to sensible levels.
@@L663 but prices of old defenders are going up not down. Even series land rovers are now rising. Plus many people are not going anywhere close to high end land rovers as they cannot get insurance. Especially in places like London for example. So the only thing keeping sales up are overseas sales. If Land Rover tapped into the low end market with basic models they would sell twice as many, as it would hit the small van and half trucks markets. This is another reason why the old defender was also a hit. But I also don’t think Land Rover would make a low end model or basic model like the old defender because they were found to be lying when they stopped making it. An the grenadier highlighted that lie.
Simon, some color around the Fussiller cancelation would be beneficial to your non ineos followers. The reason for cancelation is the Fuss was going to be built with a gas range extender so basically a hybrid. The UK government is banning gas engines and the range extender would be included putting the Fuss useless come 2030 which would be a year into launching the Fuss. Then the EU would have it ban by 2035. Add to fact that the EV market is collapsing. A recent report shows that 70% of Tesla drivers will purchase a combustible engine when they get rid of Tesla. Why should Ineos spend millions of dollars to build an obsolete car. Keep in mind they originally had a possible agreement with Hyundai to do a Hydrogen version. Chances are they go back to that deal and build one. It's really the EU market that needs a non combustible engine. Everywhere else in world is okay with a mix of electric, and combustible engines. Actually, I saw a interesting take vehicles moving forward that the world will function best if the engines are diversified versus one style controlling the marker. Less strain on the infrastructure.
The other reason for the cancellation is to do with ineos remaining a small volume manufacturer to keep under the limit before requiring further regulation.
That 70% Tesla owner thing is a lie, I've been looking for the evidence and its not there, 70% actually buy another Tesla, only 4% would possibly go back to gas, the rest would get another EV or Hybrid.
Simon Why don’t you buy a “cheap” v8 90 or 110 and tune the engine, three D print a body kit, upgrade the suspension, put it on 35s and wrap it in Orca colours. You could call it a Mocka. You can then compare it against a real one. Would make more interesting videos of the build and you can sell the parts. Love the videos.
Too bad i never had the money to buy the land rover vehicles i wanted to own while they were still adventure vehicles. I would have had a nice collection
I envisage that Ineos, as a car brand, will not be around in 10 years time. That, I am certain of. Not unless they get a grip and change their ways. The Fusilier would have been their mainstream vehicle and to survive in the marketplace, they desperately need a mainstream model. As good as the Grenadier is, Ineos have made some very strange design decisions that has compromised the comfort and enjoyability of the vehicle. Especially in right hand drive countries and I'm particularly thinking of South Africa and Australia where these vehicles were destined to shine. The North American market is important, but competition there is fierce and the Grenadier was never going to be a serious contender to the large American pickup market. Like the UK itself, Radcliffe is suffering from a serious bout of 'Americanitis' and created a vehicle that was LHD orientated whereas he should really have focused on the right hand drive markets where the Ineos would have been better welcomed. The evidence for that is the ludicrous lump in the footwell of the front right hand seat which is of course the driving position in RHD countries.
@L663 they don't but you can easily find the data from national data groups. I believe close to 35000 have been sold. I also remember hearing from Sir Jim, the breakeven point for the vehicle is 35k production a year. There has been zero advertisement and just now has an advertisement campaign has started with a 12 million dollar budget. The two largest markets for Ineos is America and Australia. The lump everyone complains about disappears when you raise the seat, even Rohny Dahl says the setting is comfortable as long as you are not wearing work boots.
@L663 they don't but you can easily find the data from national data groups. I believe close to 35000 have been sold. I also remember hearing from Sir Jim, the breakeven point for the vehicle is 35k production a year. There has been zero advertisement and just now has an advertisement campaign has started with a 12 million dollar budget. The two largest markets for Ineos is America and Australia. The lump everyone complains about disappears when you raise the seat, even Rohny Dahl says the setting is comfortable as long as you are not wearing work boots.
What's the point of a work vehicle if you can't wear work boots? And what if you can't drive it with the seat raised? Total waste of money and "Sir Jim" the con man will be having to offload a failed vanity project via bankruptcy before the end of 2026.
JLR posts the Investor Day stuff almost annually on their Investor Relations site. There's a full TH-cam of the presentation as well, not just the PDF slides: th-cam.com/video/gh4PIV_S7G4/w-d-xo.html
I am not sure how I had never seen that before ... interesting what the presentation does not mention.... no mention of Evoque / Velar or Discovery Sport....
@@L663 Yeah they're just going where the money is it seems. In the full video presentation, they only mention/show them occasionally. And I think only a slide or two showed some small info. I'm looking forward to what this One App is going to be.
NO chinese crap for me, thanks. Now a new hybrid Freelander III made in England, and as rugged as can be, THAT is interesting. And please keep it under 1700 kilo, as the road tax on the big ones are crazy. Nearly 3000 gbp per year for a Defender or a Discovery 3-4. The idea of a working man's working car is long gone. Hence the new Freelander. But if it is going to be chinese (and we all know what that means), and just another smartened up baby Defender for shopping moms, then forget it. We want the real deal. Example: just yesterday, I installed a new bonnet sensor on my Freelander, and unfortunately, I had an aftermarket version (which somewhat resembled the original one), advertised as an original Land Rover one, but sadly far from that, and I spent some 4 hours modifying it to make it work... Out of shape, leaf spring all wrong shaped, mounting holes all wrong positioned, so it couldn't catch properly and also not able to free the switch, but all sorted now. By me, not the chinese crap company who made it... And price was actually 6 gbp more than an original one. Just so, that JLR have this major repositioning of all of their ware houses, and since it's been going on for over a year now, and still not finished, that was the part that could be delivered via an alternative Land Rover parts dealer. Utterly and bad made chinese crap. I will, and I mean that, order an original one, and throw the chinese crap on the fire in the garden asap. So a new Freelander all ev from china?: - Badly made parts. - Unstable long term. - Sure to catch fire based on chinese batteries. - Shutting down the European working force. - no resell value in 6 months. - infamous chinese factories supplying spares for the next 3 or 4 decades? Highly unlikely. - chinese spyware all over the car. - low grade batteries and no proper fuel for when you are out and about, away from public roads and chargers. - ultra low security in crash test/crashes. - securing chinese economy, when they are expanding their terror regime and public surveilance and even having illegal chinese "police stations" all over towns in the UK and other European countries? - helping to shut down European economy and society? And helping china to support terror regimes and invading countries? I think not. NO thanks. NO way. So a chinese made all electric Freelander III? No thanks! Cheers.
wanted to buy the Fisker myself, was following them from the early days.. massive disappointment, such a beautiful car, riddled with terrible parts and even worse software :(
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That ruined it, EV only Freelander and from China. Nope.
Fully agree. NO chinese crap for me, thanks. Now a new hybrid Freelander III made in England, and as rugged as can be, THAT is interesting. And please keep it under 1700 kilo, as the road tax on the big ones are crazy. Nearly 3000 gbp per year for a Defender or a Discovery 3-4. The idea of a working mans working car is long gone. Hence the new Freelander. But if it going to be chinese (and we all know what that means), and just another smartened up baby defender for shopping moms, then forget it. We want the real deal.
Example: jsut yesterday, I installed a new bonnet sensor on my Freelaner, and unfortunately, I had an aftermarket version (which somewhat resembled the original one), advertised as an original Land Rover one, but sadly far from that, and I spent some 4 hours modifying it to make it work... Out of shape, leaf spring all wrong shaped, mounting holes all wrong positioned, so it couldn't catch properly and also not able to free the switch, so all sorted now. And price was actually 6 gbp more than an original one. Just so, that JLR have this major repositioning of all of their ware houses, and since it's been going on for over a year now, and still not finished, that was the part that could be delivered via an alternative Land Rover parts dealer. Utterly and bad made chinese crap. I will, and I mean that, order an original one, and throw the chinese crap on the fire in the garden asap.
- Badly made parts.
- Unstable long term.
- Sure to catch fire based on chinese batteries.
- Shutting down the Eutopean working force.
- no resell value in 6 months.
- infamous chinese factories supplying spares for the next 3 or 4 decades? Highly unlikely.
- shinese spyware all over the car.
- low grade batteries and no proper fuel for when you are out and about, away from public roads and chargers.
- ultra low security in crash test/crashes.
- securing chinese economy, when they are expanding their terror regime and public surveilance and even having illegal chinese "police stations" all over towns in the UK?
- helping to shut down European economy and society? And helping china to support terror regimes and invading countries? I think not.
NO thanks.
NO way.
So a chinese made all electric Freelander III? No thanks!
Cheers.
Yep.. Not for me.
Really hope that there is a Discovery 6. The D3/4 were the best cars LR made in my opinion. The D5 never cut it and Defender, as good as it is, isn't a replacement. Hopefully it'll have a proper split tailgate.
There already is a D6 - it's the 'Defender' with a silly design literally bolted ontop of it.. :)
My opinion ofc..
I used to own a D4 - so sad and dissapointed with the D6 ('Defender')..
@@bluenapalm123 I have a L663 Defender and having owned four D3/4 I can categorically state that it is definitely not a Discovery replacement in any shape or form. Such is the fact that I’m looking at buying a Euro 6 D4 to replace my Defender.
@@bluenapalm123 you would be as the Defender was never intended to be a Disco replacement.
As someone who lived and breathed Laandrovers for 30 odd years, I am now ambivalent towards this brand, but it is nice to see their Q1 revenue is healthy.
Most of us have a love hate relationship with our Land Rover cars and the brand... but none of us really want to see the brand close.
Great video Simon - All interesting updates! Thanks.
Thanks Kevin - there just seemed to be a lot i needed to get off my chest.... even put my smart shirt on !
I have a 2019 Disco 5, the 3 litre diesel and I love it! Luxurious but also a capable off roader. And I don’t want to tempt fate but in 2 years of ownership I’ve never had a problem with it!Hopefully they do release a new Discovery!!
The D5 in many ways is a good car - its the same as the Range Rover L405 but better value and not as desirable to steal !
Thanks for the update Simon, not too sure about the shirt though 😮 Land Rover should put some money into car security to stop all the bad press they are getting.
Interesting video Simon, thanks. I'm still spemding too much money with PowerfulUK as I personalise my D4-Landmark, though I did get the Clover wind deflectors as they go the full length of both doors and look like a single unit (very smart).
I did spot the most expensive D4 on the road on Saturday. It had a green-striped number plate, so the owner had obviously done the conversion to fully electric - and that costs over £100k as far as I am aware - looked great! Though, personally, I don't like the low milage of electric vehicles and the problems and costs of recharging when you are away from home. No good for me when I am doing a 1,200 mile cross Europe journey.
Apologies for asking a question not relating to your video, maybe you have had this problem, I have 2017 Disco Sport L550 in which the motor for the power steering failed due to water ingress, I replaced it with a used motor (which has not been coded as yet) and it is making a horrendous screeching noise when the steering wheel is turned. Have you ever heard of this?
We have done a video on the discovery sport steering belt failure
th-cam.com/video/QHBRwSL2wJQ/w-d-xo.html
And very sorry to hear that Recaro, by far the Worlds best car seats, are under threat. So, I really hope they will remain. I've had Recaro in all my cars, and I've always been supported in a superb way. Not like so many other car seats, which are either too hard, too sloppy and no support, really.
Chinese new Freelander? Yuck!
I'd prefer a UK based and made one. My Freelander is made in England. And I would prefer a hybrid anyway.
Kind regards.
Hello Simon. A new EV Freelander from China?….not sure how well that will sell to old LR customers but if it looks good and works well then it might work. I agree you would need one of those on the fleet! I’m pleased you decided the Octa was too much of a risk..I could not see you selling a great deal of products to owners who will only buy to resell or just store….but you could use the faithful Stig as a base for OCTA design features! Well done on getting that number plate…JLR must have been fast asleep not to have spotted that one. I think you might sell it on for £30/35,000+ to a well heeled new owner! INEOS is in a strange place…I’m amazed they have sold 35,000 of them so far as those I have seen have been of very low quality build standards…a lot of money for a car with too much old technology and outdated engines. As for JLR…the plan to go Premium only and even “ sale by invitation “ was utterly stupid…as you say, they need to sell to old, normal income LR enthusiasts in a approachable way…a Freelander for £35/40,000 would work…but a Chinese EV version might struggle for a while yet. Enough! Take car, Richard😃😃😃😃
Not sure where to get accurate sales figures for the Ineos from...I think the Range Rover going up market makes sense but i think they need to consider Defender customers as a different breed....
@@L663 Yes…don’t forget the Freelander customers as there are more of them than multimillionaires ordering £250,000+ RR SVO’s! 😬😃😃😃
The demise of Recaro isn’t just bad news for the automotive industry, they are also one of the big manufacturers of seats for passenger aircraft.
I think the aviation devision is separate and OK.
@@L663 According to Wikipedia, this seems to be the case
In July 2024, news reports surfaced that Recaro Automotive had filed for bankruptcy and was subsequently approved for self-administration by a German court.[17] The bankruptcy doesn't affect the aircraft, train and gaming chair divisions.
Oh dear, I have no words.
I think Ienos read the tea leaves on the EV market and pulled before spending wads of money. I suspect they will revamp and come out with a hybrid compact at some point. 95% of the taxis here in Vancouver are hybrids, they just make sense and work. As for the Discovery, just chatting to a lady with her kids in a Disco 5, she loves it, but hates the huge repair bills from the dealer. I put her in touch with a couple of good local shops that won't use the parts cannon on her. So if they want the family to buy them, reliability and driving affordability should be high on the list.
That green looks Great!
Yeah, that looks excellent! Did I miss a video with that getting done??
We got the stig wrapped !
I did show it in the Gaydon Video... but i could put a video together on the wrap if you want to see behind the scenes
@@L663 yes, please! Thanks.
@@L663 that would be cool to see. Looks fantastic!
It would be better if manufacturers built vehicles customers actually want. Not the rubbish that is made today. EVs / hybrids/ self charging rubbish. Most customers want proper straight diesel or petrol engines, less toys, just normal vehicles that will last 20+ yrs with regular servicing. With modern vehicles scrapped at 3 yrs, not very environmentally friendly . 😢
Knowing Jimbo, he'll just buy Recaro. Problem solved.
To add to his collection of Belstaff .. Man unitied etc.
@@L663it’s only the management/licensing arm of Recaro the manufacturing side is ok
Always better with sound...
Before they start dreaming about New Rovers ,they need to sort out the Reliability problems with the vehicles made
Hi Simon……. The electric car bubble has imploded!!!!!
Elon is discounting heavily….
In Australia you don’t have to preorder the Tesla Model….. they’re sitting on the wharves around the country….
As you stated Fischer has gone!!!
I recently saw a photograph of an electric car charger in rural Queensland that was connected to a diesel generator!!!
And so many Chinese electric car manufacturers flooding the market and driving prices down…..
But JLR has got me stuffed…….
Jaguar is going all electric!!!!
I think that they have missed the boat!!!
Land Rover have just launched the OCTA Defender…..massive V8 and the fastest defender yet!!!! Strange???
And now aluminium is in sort supply, hence JLR can’t manufacture their vehicles!!!!
And the Japanese sharemarket has just tanked and Bitcoin has fallen through the floor!!!
Interesting times…..
Regards Ian 👨🎤🇳🇿👍🍸🍸
I take the question mark to mean they are dropping the Disco not replacing it
I think it will be replaced.... it is afterall a key part of their "house of Brands" Jaguar / Defender / Range Rover and Discovery.
More interesting is that Evoque and Velar and Discovery Sport did not get a mention in the presentation.
I have a theory that the L663 Defender was originally intended to be the Discovery 5. However, due to the backlash from the Defender being discontinued in 2016, they pivoted and named it the Defender instead. The vehicle we got as the Discovery 5 seemed like it could have easily been a part of the Range Rover lineup. Personally I love the D3 and D4 shape which is what led me to buy an L663, its like a bigger version.
The L663 is for sure very much styled on the D3...
My hopes were raised and dashed within the first 90 seconds of this vlog Simon.
Guts me that car companies re-use the old names for cars that bear no resemblance to their forefathers. Viva, Mustang, Defender, Capri and now Freelander to name just a few.
#gutted
P.S. Bin the Octa order and get a Grenadier instead.
Yes I see why the Mustang and and the Capri offend... but the Defender at least looks like a Defender !
@L663 Ish. Not as much as the Grenadier does 😉
For me and many others the new Defender was really the heir to the Disco 4.
Still, not like LR listen to their old customers anyway...😥
The discovery 5 looks like an updated freelander anyway.
LR need to get back to basics, with the Discovery and defender. Cut out all the computers used to run them.
From the presentation they seem to be pushing max sales $ per unit... and going for hyper luxury ! I think they will intentionally leave a lot of Land Rover owners behind - although they could be buyers of used Defenders as prices fall to sensible levels.
@@L663 but prices of old defenders are going up not down. Even series land rovers are now rising.
Plus many people are not going anywhere close to high end land rovers as they cannot get insurance. Especially in places like London for example. So the only thing keeping sales up are overseas sales.
If Land Rover tapped into the low end market with basic models they would sell twice as many, as it would hit the small van and half trucks markets. This is another reason why the old defender was also a hit.
But I also don’t think Land Rover would make a low end model or basic model like the old defender because they were found to be lying when they stopped making it. An the grenadier highlighted that lie.
Wish i had enough money to sit on a new defenders bonnet lol great video 👍🏻
Its tough enough - and it has a wrap so no paintwork damage !
What about disco sport? It’s been out 10 years now. Thanks for your videos
There was no mention of the Discovery Sport or Velar or Evoque in the presentation from Land Rover !
Is it me or is this video crispier than all your previous footage!
Not sure - i think its just my shirt !
Very interesting
Glad you think so!
Thought the Discovery Sport took the place of the Freelander
Yes it did... I think it is just a case of using a name that was left on the shelf for a new project !
Simon, some color around the Fussiller cancelation would be beneficial to your non ineos followers. The reason for cancelation is the Fuss was going to be built with a gas range extender so basically a hybrid. The UK government is banning gas engines and the range extender would be included putting the Fuss useless come 2030 which would be a year into launching the Fuss. Then the EU would have it ban by 2035. Add to fact that the EV market is collapsing. A recent report shows that 70% of Tesla drivers will purchase a combustible engine when they get rid of Tesla. Why should Ineos spend millions of dollars to build an obsolete car. Keep in mind they originally had a possible agreement with Hyundai to do a Hydrogen version. Chances are they go back to that deal and build one. It's really the EU market that needs a non combustible engine. Everywhere else in world is okay with a mix of electric, and combustible engines. Actually, I saw a interesting take vehicles moving forward that the world will function best if the engines are diversified versus one style controlling the marker. Less strain on the infrastructure.
The range extender was only an option - not on the base vehicle :-
ineosgrenadier.com/en/gb/news/introducing-the-ineos-fusilier
@L663 yes but the base model got 100 miles on a battery. You basically need the range extender. The economy of scale was not there.
The other reason for the cancellation is to do with ineos remaining a small volume manufacturer to keep under the limit before requiring further regulation.
If Milliband gets his way, the UK will ban ICE cars yesterday.
That 70% Tesla owner thing is a lie, I've been looking for the evidence and its not there, 70% actually buy another Tesla, only 4% would possibly go back to gas, the rest would get another EV or Hybrid.
Simon
Why don’t you buy a “cheap” v8 90 or 110 and tune the engine, three D print a body kit, upgrade the suspension, put it on 35s and wrap it in Orca colours.
You could call it a Mocka.
You can then compare it against a real one.
Would make more interesting videos of the build and you can sell the parts.
Love the videos.
I need to be careful what parts i copy from the Octa - Land Rover has design rights for its designs.
@@L663I’m sure their will be Chinese versions available
Looking smart!
Weekend Shirt !
3:07 And yet the Disco 3 was still a better more reliable 4x4 over the 4 & 5 models.
Would love to see a more boxy old school Discovery introduced with split tailgate !
@@L663 Bring back the Discovery 4, but with a reliable engine!
Too bad i never had the money to buy the land rover vehicles i wanted to own while they were still adventure vehicles. I would have had a nice collection
Good video Simon 👏👏👏👍👍👍👍
Thanks Jimmy
Great video
Thanks!
shirt looks great
Weekend shirt !
That was nice…
No wonder Ineos paused the Fusilier no one wants to buy electric cars because of the depreciation.
I envisage that Ineos, as a car brand, will not be around in 10 years time. That, I am certain of. Not unless they get a grip and change their ways. The Fusilier would have been their mainstream vehicle and to survive in the marketplace, they desperately need a mainstream model. As good as the Grenadier is, Ineos have made some very strange design decisions that has compromised the comfort and enjoyability of the vehicle. Especially in right hand drive countries and I'm particularly thinking of South Africa and Australia where these vehicles were destined to shine. The North American market is important, but competition there is fierce and the Grenadier was never going to be a serious contender to the large American pickup market. Like the UK itself, Radcliffe is suffering from a serious bout of 'Americanitis' and created a vehicle that was LHD orientated whereas he should really have focused on the right hand drive markets where the Ineos would have been better welcomed. The evidence for that is the ludicrous lump in the footwell of the front right hand seat which is of course the driving position in RHD countries.
I wonder if Ineos publish their sales data ?
@L663 they don't but you can easily find the data from national data groups. I believe close to 35000 have been sold. I also remember hearing from Sir Jim, the breakeven point for the vehicle is 35k production a year. There has been zero advertisement and just now has an advertisement campaign has started with a 12 million dollar budget. The two largest markets for Ineos is America and Australia. The lump everyone complains about disappears when you raise the seat, even Rohny Dahl says the setting is comfortable as long as you are not wearing work boots.
@L663 they don't but you can easily find the data from national data groups. I believe close to 35000 have been sold. I also remember hearing from Sir Jim, the breakeven point for the vehicle is 35k production a year. There has been zero advertisement and just now has an advertisement campaign has started with a 12 million dollar budget. The two largest markets for Ineos is America and Australia. The lump everyone complains about disappears when you raise the seat, even Rohny Dahl says the setting is comfortable as long as you are not wearing work boots.
What's the point of a work vehicle if you can't wear work boots? And what if you can't drive it with the seat raised? Total waste of money and "Sir Jim" the con man will be having to offload a failed vanity project via bankruptcy before the end of 2026.
@Phuc_Yhou it's not meant to be a work truck. It's meant to be a replacement for the 76 series. It's a tourer. If you want a work truck by a ford
The prices of cars just cant carry on in this fashion
We will have to reply on market prices and capitalism to control the prices... the stock market crash today may help prices come down
Not from china
There is nothing that landrover is going doing is going to be cheap to buy only thing is it will break down
In one word disastrous, when are you going to learn JLR, the consumer do not want EV’s gave us hydrogen.
JLR posts the Investor Day stuff almost annually on their Investor Relations site. There's a full TH-cam of the presentation as well, not just the PDF slides: th-cam.com/video/gh4PIV_S7G4/w-d-xo.html
I am not sure how I had never seen that before ... interesting what the presentation does not mention.... no mention of Evoque / Velar or Discovery Sport....
@@L663 Yeah they're just going where the money is it seems. In the full video presentation, they only mention/show them occasionally. And I think only a slide or two showed some small info. I'm looking forward to what this One App is going to be.
NO chinese crap for me, thanks. Now a new hybrid Freelander III made in England, and as rugged as can be, THAT is interesting. And please keep it under 1700 kilo, as the road tax on the big ones are crazy. Nearly 3000 gbp per year for a Defender or a Discovery 3-4. The idea of a working man's working car is long gone. Hence the new Freelander. But if it is going to be chinese (and we all know what that means), and just another smartened up baby Defender for shopping moms, then forget it. We want the real deal.
Example: just yesterday, I installed a new bonnet sensor on my Freelander, and unfortunately, I had an aftermarket version (which somewhat resembled the original one), advertised as an original Land Rover one, but sadly far from that, and I spent some 4 hours modifying it to make it work... Out of shape, leaf spring all wrong shaped, mounting holes all wrong positioned, so it couldn't catch properly and also not able to free the switch, but all sorted now. By me, not the chinese crap company who made it... And price was actually 6 gbp more than an original one. Just so, that JLR have this major repositioning of all of their ware houses, and since it's been going on for over a year now, and still not finished, that was the part that could be delivered via an alternative Land Rover parts dealer. Utterly and bad made chinese crap. I will, and I mean that, order an original one, and throw the chinese crap on the fire in the garden asap.
So a new Freelander all ev from china?:
- Badly made parts.
- Unstable long term.
- Sure to catch fire based on chinese batteries.
- Shutting down the European working force.
- no resell value in 6 months.
- infamous chinese factories supplying spares for the next 3 or 4 decades? Highly unlikely.
- chinese spyware all over the car.
- low grade batteries and no proper fuel for when you are out and about, away from public roads and chargers.
- ultra low security in crash test/crashes.
- securing chinese economy, when they are expanding their terror regime and public surveilance and even having illegal chinese "police stations" all over towns in the UK and other European countries?
- helping to shut down European economy and society? And helping china to support terror regimes and invading countries? I think not.
NO thanks.
NO way.
So a chinese made all electric Freelander III? No thanks!
Cheers.
You raise some valid points. As a company we too have some concerns about the geopolitical landscape.
Fusilier cancelled so Ineos can use the money to build a new stadium for Manchester United 😉
For the men or the women's team ?
wanted to buy the Fisker myself, was following them from the early days.. massive disappointment, such a beautiful car, riddled with terrible parts and even worse software :(
They have got so much work to redeem the name Freelander 🤣
The Freelander 2 is a good car.
The Freelancer 2/LR2 was and still is one of the best JLR vehicles to buy with the 2.2 diesel engine.
Howdy@
Howdy indeed - no boom today ?
@@L663 Slow morning. It's the horse's summer week holiday!
👍👍❤️❤️🙏🙏🇬🇧
You lost me when you said Electric EV
Looks like a suzuki jimny