Thanks for having this content out on the internet. As someone who suffered from retroactive orthodontics , I’m looking into reversing some of the shit I shouldn’t have had to if I wouldn’t have gone through braces
1. If Dr Ting has only used a face mask which uses the chin, wouldn't that force the wearer to engage the pterygoid muscles? creating a tug of war and halving the amount of forward force. 2. What is the maximum amount of time his patients have worn the mask, 3 months / 6 months? Intuitively real bone remodelling would take much longer. Many sufferers of PER were in braces for years and would tolerate similar timescales or longer. These interviews are brilliant but it's important to differentiate between 'my techniques have not yet achieved this' and 'it can't be done'. This area needs better research and better conceptualised products with which to do said research. I've done a lot of thinking about these topics and these videos get me out of my one person echo chamber a bit ;) thankyou all for making available such excellent information. Keep it up!!
My view is that the forward growth achieved by bone remodeling is superior to that of MSE. Look at helmutstrebl's results on reddit as an adult. He is 24 now and looks like a male model
@@AL-re5ks for anyone who is older/ very narrow or with very minimal airway an MSE might be the only way to gain enough space to practice good oral posture. Bone remodelling is the goal, not a technique, so cannot be compared. You are comparing mewing with MSE and although maximising your remaining growth potential is obviously ideal, this is just not the situation for most people.
He's not even real, I found a fake page of the guy the other day. Show me his real social media account & then we can talk. Also, mse isn't for inducing forward growth, although it can according to Ronald (who is a dumbass btw) since he wants to interview these oral surgeons like they're nor gonna be biased even after obtaining some of the results that they say aren't possible. Forward protection is what induces forward growth. It is effective according to several people who have received it. Helmuts is questionable until I see the guy who says he's helmuts on reddit is real & that's that
If no one tries to open suture on adults thinking that it is impossible we wouldn't have MSE today.Why is it still the same case today? There are a ot of people with underbites who are willing to try FM+MSE.If no one tries anything new who is going to be able to achieve it? I think orthodontist should try to be a little bit optimistic about the topic and at least give it a go.Maybe it will even change the direction of all the orthodontic surgeries
I still think an Alt-RAMEC protocol could really improve the likelihood of protractive headgear creating a few mm of protraction. This is soooo something Dr. Ting should look into.
I think in your future interviews you should also ask about the angles of a reverse pull headgear and the different appliances and the force used. On Ting's facebook profile I saw a photo of the very basic mandible anchored mask. Would for example the crane appliance you mentioned earlier provide superior results?
There is a study about this using a finete element model. Read the paper the best angle is -30 if you pull +30 the entire maxilla goes upward and forward but i guess it will leave you with a huge openbite. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456601/
@@thechallenge293 simulation F wtf such good new for those with long midface. Openbite can be corrected quite easy . But you will stay with compacter midface and positive Orbital vector
It's interesting hearing them discuss Kieran's Ortho Lab. I'd love a full-on reaction video. What do these professionals really think about it seeing it first-hand?
Ask what about using 1 kg per side in adult cases for mse + fm 24/7? You never asked about the force in adults. Anyway these videos are really good you should do this with Prof. Won Moon if he has time! Thanks
Monkey study had 5N of force or 500grams for 90 days , produced like 4 mm of maxillary advancment. However screws were drilled into monkeys heads so it's not pratical for humans. www.aljabri.com/blog/understanding-the-monkey-experiments-that-inspired-mewing/
Who is you orthodontist that gave you mse can you link me to the orthondontist site. also is 16 to late for a teenager to have a drastic effect for facemask or is this still good
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Thanks for having this content out on the internet. As someone who suffered from retroactive orthodontics , I’m looking into reversing some of the shit I shouldn’t have had to if I wouldn’t have gone through braces
1. If Dr Ting has only used a face mask which uses the chin, wouldn't that force the wearer to engage the pterygoid muscles? creating a tug of war and halving the amount of forward force.
2. What is the maximum amount of time his patients have worn the mask, 3 months / 6 months? Intuitively real bone remodelling would take much longer. Many sufferers of PER were in braces for years and would tolerate similar timescales or longer.
These interviews are brilliant but it's important to differentiate between 'my techniques have not yet achieved this' and 'it can't be done'.
This area needs better research and better conceptualised products with which to do said research. I've done a lot of thinking about these topics and these videos get me out of my one person echo chamber a bit ;) thankyou all for making available such excellent information. Keep it up!!
My view is that the forward growth achieved by bone remodeling is superior to that of MSE. Look at helmutstrebl's results on reddit as an adult. He is 24 now and looks like a male model
@@AL-re5ks for anyone who is older/ very narrow or with very minimal airway an MSE might be the only way to gain enough space to practice good oral posture. Bone remodelling is the goal, not a technique, so cannot be compared. You are comparing mewing with MSE and although maximising your remaining growth potential is obviously ideal, this is just not the situation for most people.
Excellent questions! You should be the one to interview Dr. Ting next!
He's not even real, I found a fake page of the guy the other day. Show me his real social media account & then we can talk. Also, mse isn't for inducing forward growth, although it can according to Ronald (who is a dumbass btw) since he wants to interview these oral surgeons like they're nor gonna be biased even after obtaining some of the results that they say aren't possible. Forward protection is what induces forward growth. It is effective according to several people who have received it. Helmuts is questionable until I see the guy who says he's helmuts on reddit is real & that's that
@@AL-re5ks lol that guy got fillers/implants
If no one tries to open suture on adults thinking that it is impossible we wouldn't have MSE today.Why is it still the same case today? There are a ot of people with underbites who are willing to try FM+MSE.If no one tries anything new who is going to be able to achieve it? I think orthodontist should try to be a little bit optimistic about the topic and at least give it a go.Maybe it will even change the direction of all the orthodontic surgeries
I still think an Alt-RAMEC protocol could really improve the likelihood of protractive headgear creating a few mm of protraction. This is soooo something Dr. Ting should look into.
I think in your future interviews you should also ask about the angles of a reverse pull headgear and the different appliances and the force used. On Ting's facebook profile I saw a photo of the very basic mandible anchored mask. Would for example the crane appliance you mentioned earlier provide superior results?
Very good question
Mike Mew also mentions that the force on the maxilla from the chin cup isn’t good either.
There is a study about this using a finete element model. Read the paper the best angle is -30 if you pull +30 the entire maxilla goes upward and forward but i guess it will leave you with a huge openbite.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456601/
@@thechallenge293 simulation F wtf such good new for those with long midface.
Openbite can be corrected quite easy . But you will stay with compacter midface and positive Orbital vector
@@thechallenge293 Interestingly they achieved some CCW rotation at -15 angle already.
Great information here! Thanks for making these videos!
It's interesting hearing them discuss Kieran's Ortho Lab. I'd love a full-on reaction video. What do these professionals really think about it seeing it first-hand?
Ask what about using 1 kg per side in adult cases for mse + fm 24/7? You never asked about the force in adults. Anyway these videos are really good you should do this with Prof. Won Moon if he has time! Thanks
Monkey study had 5N of force or 500grams for 90 days , produced like 4 mm of maxillary advancment. However screws were drilled into monkeys heads so it's not pratical for humans.
www.aljabri.com/blog/understanding-the-monkey-experiments-that-inspired-mewing/
@@multicrogamer where is the original paper of this study?
@@thechallenge293 I can't find it , there is a short preview.
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0002941678900805
I think it's this one
Who is you orthodontist that gave you mse can you link me to the orthondontist site. also is 16 to late for a teenager to have a drastic effect for facemask or is this still good
When ting says teen does he mean under 20 or under 18 ?
I'm assuming someone who is still growing
What is the Facebook group is he talking about from 17:02-17:14 in which he said there is a video of someone installing an MSE on himself?
Mxlmgr no, MSE user group is what the Facebook group is
its over boyos, lefort 3 it is
Let me cope! 😂😔
Podcast when?
Great video
Are you sure yt is going to be ok with the title like that? :)
Here is a video of the MSE self install mentioned here th-cam.com/video/VGu7wgLDhjE/w-d-xo.html
Original Video: th-cam.com/video/iO8kSZmWjLU/w-d-xo.html