I was watching rules of carnage, and they were talking about miniatures agnostic as an idea. Basically everything is minis agnostic with few exceptions where the miniatures are integral to the play of the game.
X factor for me is a good campaign system in a skirmish game. I also like when all members of a warband gain experience and level up(mordheim), and not just a part of them(frostgrave,stargrave).
Ya there is a way to play Warhammer 40k like that I hear, I forget its name its like Campains or Narrative or something. If you win a game you get extra stuff next game. So if the winner is on a roll it makes the game even easyer for em. I never tried it but I would. Take care fellow war gammer.
My experience, from 20+ years in a hobby store, is that miniature wargames have a different barrier to entry. This might be obvious, but unlike other board games you need to make a considerable investment in both time and money, but especially time. Which in turn means that people grow wary of miniature games NOT from say Games Workshop. The thinking being: Will this game even be around by the time I get an army built up? And will it still be there in 2-3 years or will my investment in time be wasted on game no longer supported?
If you’re looking to get into an ever-evolving gaming ecosystem, then yes - this would be a consideration. However, once you buy a ruleset, you can play it anytime you want in the future as long as you’re willing to teach people to play. Thanks for watching!
The irony here is that if you do buy into playing a Games Workshop game it may be discontinued also, the way Mordheim and Necromunda were. And if you go with long lived 40K the rules will change, and you will have to buy the new edition, and probably a bunch more models
@@fauxpukka you are not wrong. GW may be shooting itself in the foot in the pursuit of more profits. They change the rules so much and so often that you have to buy new models all the time.
But a (for arguments sake) Roman Legionary army is going to be useful no matter what the rule-set of the day is, right? You buy and paint it once and as long as you dont have a rush of blood to the head and sell it, there are always people playing ancients and you can keep playing that army until the day you die.
Until two years ago I was with you on battletech, but then I started playing mechwarrior 5 on the xbox. Got me into the lore, the look of (some) mechs and the next thing you know i've brought a box of minis "just to paint" then the alpha strike starter box came out, so I picked that up to give the game a go and enjoyed it.
I love Battletech for two main reasons: I played Mechwarrior as a teenager and I really enjoy the lore. Having well fleshed out lore is a big draw for me for any game. The rule books are big but the rules aren't that complicated in my experience. The rule books happen to include a lot of optional rules that large portions of the community have been using for decades and a lot of rules that handle corner case situations that come up. If it's not for you, then that's fine. Different strokes for different folks.
Although I have never played the tabletop game (I have played a couple of the computer/console games), I have been a fan of Battle tech/Mechwarrior for a long time and that was almost entirely down to the lore. It has such a good back history. I must have read most of the novels, starting off with the Grey Death Legion books. I have to admit my interest began to slip when the focus turned largely to the Clans and that was in part because I didn't like the Clan mech designs. But I do have a large number of the old anime kits, particularly from the Macross series, where the designs were....borrowed for Battletech. Many of those are 1/72 or 1/100 scale and I have had a number makeshift games (no idea now where the rules came from) with a mix of mechs, modern looking tanks (Merkava and Leopard II I think) and 1/72 modern troops which were quite fun (not that the troops stood a chance). But at the end of the day it was the lore that pulled me in - ok and realising the mechs were from a favourite anime show.
@@1nONLY_DRockI personly like classic more than alpha strike. What I like the most in battletech is that you can decide on how deep the rules are! If you want weather, gravity etc. you can to have it or just play with the introduction rules.
@@oOComatoseOo You can include environmental conditions in Alpha Strike too. I will concede that from a narrative standpoint the classic game is better. When your game's outcome can be influenced by highly detailed amount of battle damage it adds drama and excitement. But if you're more into larger scale games Alpha Strike is the way to go. It can tell just as much of a compelling story. The emphasis is placed elsewhere. Less worrying about your dodgy gyro and more about your troop placement and tactics.
I love using 15mm FoW minis to play BoltAction as written. The change in scale makes the ranges feel WAY better and allows for larger maps on the same sized table
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, at that scale, I would have to be the one to provide everything, because everyone else playing the game is using 28mm.
As an aspiring skirmish game designer, this is an excellent guideline on what I should be on the lookout for and what shortfalls I will encounter. Thanks, Uncle Atom!
I saw the title, watched the video, well played. Riding that sweet Battletech train for the TH-cam Overlords. I can't blame you. I think my X factors were partially influenced by Battletech since that's what I played when I was young. I can't deal with mini games that go so hard on the WYSIWYG mentality. I don't want to bicker over the table for minutes because the data sheet says I have a plasma rifle but clearly my mini has missile pods. Let's just roll dice and blow up stuff already. This is why I liked Battletech's system, sure you COULD alter miniatures if you want but you don't have to do it. I did find it funny you bring up Steel Rift with their "Authorities, corporations, and free lancers" and all I could think was "So this is just Battletech with a slimmed down lore? Because we have all three if you follow it". I really should look at Steel Rift's rulebook but based on what I see on the site it feels like they made a sci fi-Battletech-like game but added more WYSIWYG into it. More power to those who like that, but I'm not going to judge them either way good or bad until I read the rulebook. That brings me to my second X factor: Some games don't let you look at the engine. They'll give you a stat block, but no reasoning behind it. Why was this unit 3 strength and 4 save on armor? No answer? Oh well okay I guess. I was spoiled for math choices in Battletech. They gave not only the kitchen sink, metaphorically, but the whole kitchen and allow us to make our sandwich if we don't like the current menu. The rules don't feel that the rules are dense compared to something like 40k. Sure there's armor, crits, and some record keeping but 40k does insidious things like making you not only buy a big book for your faction, but now you also need the OTHER guy's book for his faction, and all their special gimmicks. Again I go back to Battletech's ability to just say in maybe two books "Okay this super advanced laser? Yeah you die to it due to X, so partially the fault is yours." Going back to the minis on Steel Rift for a brief tangent, I don't like them. They don't feel "complete". I can see the silhouette, I get the shapes, but overall it still feels like someone's early renders and maybe one day they'll fill it out. Maybe its the empty space on some of them or the simple geometry, I don't know, but it might be fun for all I know. Then again I could never get into 40K because it felt like they took their Warhammer Fantasy into space then took the piss out of someone's Catholic School years and put all that into the lore. So I guess where you are with Battletech, I am with 40k. We both see these titles and go "Come on really?" So you aren't wrong for not liking Battletech. Heck even us fans of it hate something from it. That's the secret to the fandom: We have plenty to grip at about it and still love defending or bashing it and rolling the die. I will stand with you though on the idea that more titles like Steel Rift need some love on the LFGS tables so folks can see these and explore on their own. We all can't be dominated by juggernauts like Games Workshop after all.
Battletechs main charm is its grindyness for many. I'm also funnily enough a huge fan of its sci -fi neo feudalism and the idea that humanity is our own worst enemy
I know I've looked into several "adventure" style tabletop games, because they sound right up my alley, but then I try to read the rulebooks and they seem so complicated and so indulgent in design and I emotionally revolt at the idea of having to play them. Then again I also grabbed a Warcry book to read in case I wanted to try that since I heard good things, and I quickly just got to the point where I was like, 'EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE CAMPAIGN SYSTEM ACTUALLY WORKS IN REAL LIFE LIKE A HUMAN BEING WOULD,' I just get frustrated at weirdly convoluted books as I'm getting older.
For me personally, Space Weirdos ticks all the boxes for what I'm looking at in a game. Strong, simple but effective game mechanics, I'm free to invent my own lore and background to games and it is completely miniature agnostic. I'm running participation games of Space Weirdos at our podcast's gaming event next weekend and I'm hoping that by the end of the day, we'll have a few more converts to this awesome game.
It’s really great, and ticks all the boxes for me. I haven’t built a bespoke Space Weirdos group in a bit, I should do that again soon. Thanks for watching!
Definitely this, in fact if it hadn't been for your video about it, I'd have probably been none the wiser about Space Weirdos. Unique game mechanics and a chance to kitbash my own miniatures really did sell it.
Space weirdos is awesome. It is my go to for the same reasons. I am starting out with Sword Weirdos too, which has a little more noodle but still has the same base x factors.
As an old BattleTech grognard, heck I wrote for FASA back in the day, I get your ambivalence to the rules, setting, and the models. No shade from me if you don't play. I haven't played BattleTech since Covid, and quite frankly probably won't ever play another game. Still got the miniatures. I do love me some mecha. However, I don't like WH40K, even though I was a fan of WFB back in the day. Too many skulls, too grimdark, too nihilistic etc. Though saying that I love the Caphais Cain stories. The fact that one of my best friends wrote them probably plays a big factor in that. He's an entertaining writer. What I'm looking for in my games varies. I enjoy playing X-wing, though I'm not into the competitive side of the game. I just like the ships, everybody knows the setting, and it makes for a relaxed fun session, with nail-biting decisions. I also play some boardgames, but not super into them. Also, can't remember the last RPG session I played. What keeps me in the hobby is my love of SF, especially mecha, and I'm still searching (trying to create) for my perfect game, which would have to scratch my SF needs (plausible tech and setting), and be a proper wargame (command and control). Sadly I've not reached this goal. I'll probably never will. It's sad, but it's my life, and sad though it is, the alternatives are far worse.
I love coop/solo-games and I think my x-factor for them is becoming "resolved" few moves into it, when creators dontt put any extra stuff, just decission trees for enemies and no variants for behavior to surprise. Game that handles it well is Rangers of the shadowdeep - with its random events at the end of every turn which are mission-specific, tailor-made for flavor, important and same for discovieries on clue-tokens and objectives. There are quite few examples of "ok, on average this boss will make this many attacks I will need to make this many and it is done". It gers very boring, very fast and you are going through the motion.
@@DaLEGOmaniac Sure! From first scenario in "base" book - when investigating abandoned village events range from suddenly appearing zombies, to one of the building colapsing. From "boss fight" - random events represents its seplls being casted. For example sudden explosion of fire around closest model, or black tentacles rooting it in place Those events happen 1 per turn so wont overwhelm you, but are impactful enough to alter your current plans.
Steel Rift looks awesome. I'd love to give it a go but without a UK distributor the shipping costs are spicier than ghost pepper. Edit: For the official minis that is.
An important x-factor for me is support. How well does a company grow the game, handle edition changes and generally supports the community. The long term viability of a game isn't always important, but for a big minis game it can be crucial. Big games need healthy stewardship.
This seems to be the case for a lot of people. Personally I’m the opposite. I prefer “dead” games where I can learn the rules and get comfortable with them without having them constantly change or be errataed. I only play older editions of GW games now. I tried keeping up with 40K, but I had to buy new books more often than I got to play the game, and never even got the chance to learn the rules properly before having to do it all over again. I have even found that after getting into some new, cool games, whenever there has been some big rules changes or important erratas, I have just abandoned the game in favor of something else rather than trying to relearn it. You could probably say that an x-factor for me is consistency.
@@XavierMcV The fact that Mordheim is "dead" is partly why I'd like to give it a go one day. Any rules changes are unofficial and implemented by dedicated fans who have been playing it for years. I don't need to feel like part of a growing community or attend massive events. All those things cost money, and the weird niche models that I want to collect will always be phased out to attract that wider audience.
I'm working on a Skirmish/Co-op game, so this video was super informative. Elevator Pitch - Combat Tails a game of Anthropomorphic animals; Mammals vs Reptiles in GI Joe-esque battles. I have a few minis up on MMF right now.
...Interesting. Didn't think I'd meet someone with the same minds. But it appears you have your ducks in a row while mine's still just stats on an excel sheet (lol).
This video is exactly what I needed. I've been struggling with deciding on a starter army for Warhammer and everyone's number on piece of advice is "pick what looks cool to you" which is fine enough, but I would hate so much buying, building, then paining only to find out that the army needs a completely different play-style to what I would enjoy playing.
Old guy like you and have been wargaming for almost 50 years now. Started with plastic army men and just graduated as I got older and more money. BattleTech was a go to until they released the Clans, then I totally got away from it. Have played a bit since then as long as it is the old stuff (will never play Clan Era). I have just recently gotten the Steel Rift rules and rather like them. Going to dig out some BT stuff and have a go to properly play the rules, but just reading them I think I will like them. That is one advantage to having played so many rulesets, from Fantasy/Sci-Fi and a whole range of historical, I can usually just read thru some rules and get a good idea of how they are designed, how game play will be and if it is something I want to invest in. Luckily I know the guys at the local shop and they let me have time to read stuff before buying. They know if I like it I will be all in so worth it to them to make sure it is something i really want.
I tend to write all my own rules and then use the minis I like from all over the place. I use Battle tech models with 15mm sf minis and basicaly anything that look right in 15mm scale no matter where is come from or what scale its ment to be.
I mean for me if it wasn't for Tex Talks Battletech I wouldn't be was into the Battletech lore as much as I am. Now I am not a big fan of the tabletop, but that's fine I can play it on PC and get my big stompy murder machine fix.
I love the latest Battletech sculpts. I wish I had time to paint them. Mine will be Clan Grey for a while. Understand not liking the lore. That's a point where tastes will definitley vary.
In this video Adam talks about a UK TV talent show... One thing that puts me off is hype. If "everyone" is "talking" about a game it gets to the point where you just want to "switch off". Ditto for video games, especially if I don't have the required hardware. Being a public transit user, having to cart tons of terrain around, after having made it, also puts me off, I bought into Warlord's Judge Dredd game, only to realise that my gaming buddy's and mine 40k terrain isn't entirely suitable, and thus we've never played it...
Absolutely, I wanted to love both Infinity (models are amazing) and Crisis Protocol (been a comic nerd for 30 years). In both cases I bought in, built and painted, got it on the table, and hated it.
Same here. The Infinity models are some of the best in the market. The rules however get bogged down with too many special rules and abilities. Im with you on Crisis Protocol as well. The scenarios are basically all the same with subtle variations.
Soo.. I (like you) discovered battletech in my younger years (don't switch off I am not going to tell you, you are crazy for not liking battletech). I moved away to most of the same games that I see you talk about. I went back to battletech recently and I have to say it's not as crunchy as I remember it. I agree though you have to find the games that are right for YOU and people should not tell you what to like or not like... that's just controlling and silly. So more power to you with Steel Rift.. It looks like a great game from another great creator :)
The battletech universe has always appealed to me. The video games were always engaging and a lot of fun. The things that always kept me out was the minis and the stereotype of the people who played(more grognardy than other communities). The kickstarters really solved both issues for me. The new minis looked great compared to the old stuff, and it attracted players like me who kinda kept it at arms length while playing more "polished" games. Once I started playing, the rules felt really intuitive to me as someone who played the video games and had previous wargame experience. And with all the stls and 3d printers out there, it's really accelerated the growth of the community as well
I think your basic dislike of BattleTech might be that it is basically a historical game. It gets played at Historicon a lot. There used to be a huge crossover between the BattleTech players and historical players. There is tons of lore, and the hardcore players talk about the events in the books like the events actually happened. Gets frustrating for someone like me who just wants to destroy things with big stompy robots and has no interest who succeeded who and what battle did what.
This is true but not the norm. Battletech is, for better or worse, incredibly modular - both in terms of rules and "game modes". Looking at the extremes, it can be as simple as possible for a quick skirmish using Alpha Strike or detailed to the point of a believable mech combat and campaign simulator not unlike those seen for WW2 or Cold War gone hot. AND you can dial it to be anything in between to suit your tastes. It's this massive amplitude that can be a deterrent, but also what has made many cherish the game for as long as they have. Some folks have homebrew a sort of "standard" to reduce the amount of planning necessary to get a game going and even extending it to tournaments, but the way Catalyst Game Labs presents it very much leans on scenarios and campaign play. In terms of lore and universe I'd argue there's definitely an introductory setting but also an equal range of events and eras to suit anyone's taste, although yes, it's hard to escape feudalism as it rules the majority of known space. That's a matter of personal taste, really. A place where it definitely shines is the miniatures. Yes, lots of x-factors there (quality, style, material, scale, price, availability, etc...), but the biggest advantage is that no matter what you're playing, your miniatures will always be relevant, compatible and even extendable to other game systems. There are no signs that will change anytime soon.
@@bfenix I think he has a point though. It is a sci-fi historical game. Yeah you can play historical games more casually and lighter but it doesn't change what it is at heart. I like historicals. I'm old now. But always loved Battletech.
I get that, and you do see people if not taking part in BT historic events directly, somehow incorporating their game in a way that connects to the greater narrative. Still, nothing stops you from throwing two lances at each other and just to see who comes out on top and have a great time regardless. @@NewSquallor
As someone who's deep in the BattleTech hole - I've been playing it for decades, I'm on the demo team, I playtest and I write for Shrapnel - I fully get people not liking the game. It's very much a relic of the 80s, at a point when it was a quick and easy alternative to games like Harpoon and Advanced Squad Leader, but because the rules have remained largely static it's stood still while other wargames have shifted and changed. I've not played 40K in many years but it's not difficult to see how much of the often needless complexity of Rogue Trader was pared away over the first few editions, and it was probably for the better of the game overall. BattleTech sticking so closely to the original rules (well, for mech combat, there's been extensive changes to other elements) has its advantages as well, of course. I think it's helped the renaissance for the game that returning players can pull out that 2nd edition rules booklet from 1985 and only have to contend with two or three changes, at least one of them having no actual difference to gameplay. Ultimately though not every game is going to be for every player, there are plenty of wargames my friends love that I bounce off - 40K being the biggest example. There's nothing wrong with that so long as you don't become one of those people that can't accept other people like different things and you act like a dick over it.
I was around for their start as "Cool Mini Or Not" and subsequently the change over to "Sea-Mon". A few years back they announced to everyone that they're actually pronounced "Come-On". I refuse to say that word in the same way you have refused to change to Sea-Mon. 😃
I finally jumped to Warmachine in mk3 after years of admiring from a distance. It didn’t take me long to realize I hated the mechanics of the game. The miniatures are amazing.
I tend to like skirmish level games. GW doesn't really make those (Killteam doesn't scratch that itch), though I really "love" the lore they've built. Recently, I'm starting to prefer mini-agnostic games, and modern or near-modern games specifically. Even more recently, I've gotten into solo miniature games. Though I enjoyed your take on any game can be mini-agnostic if you believe in yourself. 😂 Great video. Thanks!
Skirmish games are love. Relic Blade, MERCS, Bushido, Bot War, Malifaux and so forth are all such solid games. And you can have a ton of options and variety in the same number of models as a small army in a mass battle game.
Excellent insights! I'm with you... I enjoyed Battle Tech 35 years. But the dense rules got old quick. I feel similarly about 40k. I thought the grimdark art and lore was cool in 1988... but dear god... I'm so over it. It's boring to me now. Plus the rules for 40k haven't really improved... Even with 10 editions. I recently heard a young man new to the hobby describe his first 40k experience as, "I roll dice to see how many dice to roll... to see how many dice you roll. Then you do it a lot while I wait. Then I do it a lot while you wait." I'm so glad we live in a world with so many games to choose from.
Good point. I haven't been gaming as long as you, started in 2020, but did D&D back in the mid 80's when I had plenty of time, but no money. It seems 40k has become a prisoner of its success, there's not really much they can do to innovate on the rules, because of the massive following. I like Firefight because it does little things like having the attacking player roll to hit and resolve the enemy armor save. That little tweak saves so much time.
I'm a big fan of BattleTech and have also been exploring Alpha Strike recently. One thing I can already observe on the latter is it isn't a simpler game, just "different complexity" to Classic BT. Interesting video, I'm always interested in your philosophical observations on all things wargaming.
I've been a Battletech fan for over 30 years now, and I agree--the lore is lacking and often stupid, and the rules are quite crunchy and tedious. The introduction of 2015 of Alpha Strike, the quick-play version of Battletech, was total game changer (pun intended); I now can field dozens of models, and the game doesn't take all day to play. It's a lot easier to introduce people to the Battletech universe using Alpha Strike.
I built a mancave in my backyard to set up Battletech campaigns that last weeks. 40 years later and still love it. Just received my Mercenaries kickstarter last week. I plan to pick up a copy of Steel Rift some day.
Battletech is great because you can quit your job and family to play a campaign with a span of control from fleets of warships all the way down to squad level infantry actions with everything in between.
Anyone who actually likes Battletech will totally understand someone not liking the mechanics. It's more of a simulation or historical war game then something made for pure fun. Lore is 80% of Battletech's enduring power. 10% Robots 10% Fun
OMG yes this. I've known folks that gush over the Lore but when you bring up the game they look at you confused, because they never really heard about or cared for the game behind it. Gotten similar results with the video game fans too. They enjoy that merc hustle life. I can't blame them sometimes.
I really like these videos. A step back and assess thought. I think the rules are most important to me. A company that will release "core" or "demo" rules will at least get a look, or if they are very inexpensive (looking at you, space weirdos). Yes we play Alpha Strike and no, you shouldn't have to re-evaluate your decision making paradigm because you don't like a game I do. Quite the contrary, I'm thinking I would like to dive into Steel Rift and see that game. Good video, keep 'em coming!!
This is me with Infinity. Several of my friends are HUGELY into it and tout its virtues all the time as the best most balancedest game ever, and its just like a brick wall to me. I've tried, numerous times, to pick that game up, and there's just something about the gazillion acronyms, the fiddly list building, the extremely jargon heavy and tournament focused community that just makes it like oil and water for me
And I 100% agree with you on the Battletech plastic minis. I hate the material they use, and as a veteran kitbasher, I severely dislike preassembled minis.
Preassembled minis are a huge plus for me. I have zero interest in trying to glue a bunch of pieces together. I just want to slapchop some paint on the model and put 'em on the table
I've bounced off a few game systems that I thought I would love, pretty much every time it's been the rules that have been the issue rather than anything else. Although sometimes really good games can be ruined by having really bad players! I've been very lucky that the group I play with enjoy a variety of games so even if one week it's a game I don't enjoy as much, chances are the next week I might. As for Alpha Strike, the starter rules that come with the boxed games are pretty slimmed down, the hardback rules add a bunch of extras but I played the out of the box rules for a year before I bothered to get the hardback, and have had an absolute blast with collecting, painting and playing. Like you I played the original Battletech in the 80s with the cardboard standees, but then didn't touch it for over 35 years. Anyway, not trying to change your opinion on it, just adding mine!
Very nicely presented and thoughtful. I have two main X factors- rules and the ability to build and expand within factions (or armies). I am fairly fortunate in the openness of my gaming group to different games.
Historically speaking, the rise of 40k is interesting. Back in the 90’s, it had pretty strong competition in Warzone, but then one flamec out and the other dominated the market.
Very interesting video 🤔. I'm going to have to have a deep think about the points you raise. I need to figure out why I am here at all! I am mainly a Sci-fi modeller who tried a bit of mini painting as a break from all the spaceship grey and discovered a whole new world. Through a "local" TH-camr (Magratheabuilderofworlds) I discovered the Judge Dredd game, an IP I have loved since reading 2000AD as a kid, and Burrows and Badgers which is charming. I have enjoyed building and painting minis for both games but as of this moment, I have never actually played a wargame, even solo! I dicovered Battletech through the Mechwarrior video games, which I love, and so have done a few minis (and a couple of larger models) from this IP but am not interested in the actual tabletop game. As an innate rebel I am actively repelled by the herd mentality and so am not interested in GW content and like you am left cold by lots of "lore". This makes options for local games quite limited! Having said all that, I am actually going to a wargaming show in London at the weekend just because I found Salute 50 fun! I hope to catch Every Other Sunday on the way home. Also hope to catch your Twitch stream later 👍
dark age aztecs were extremely rad I'm so glad model agnostic systems are becoming more common. Its a huge pain and big barrier to entry to test out a new system at local shops
I really enjoy you share your thoughts and opinions regardless of what they maybe. It's refreshing know know that it's ok to like/dislike certain things. Many times others, my self included, get ridiculed for our preferences in games. Sometimes I wish I could change my own mind but your are correct regarding the X-Factor, when something really bothers you, it's almost impossible to ignore.
On the topic of rules I am currently branching out from the GW sphere. I played warmachine MK1 for a couple of months before i moved and parted ways with all the models. Getting back into MK4 for two main reasons. I remember always having fun playing it and Free Rules.
I found that my X Factor is alternating activations, I can't stand pure IGOUGO anymore. Started with 40k which birthed my contempt for it (Beyond all the money gouging GW practices both in rules and models) and thankfully I went full tilt into Middle Earth SBG (Alternating phases, simultaneous "Fight" phase for melee action) and Legion (Alternating activations) as my "big army" games. I also really dig how Infinity handles the "Reactive" player though I don't get a chance to play it as often.
40k for me. Just don't find it fun that it's possible to alpha strikes your opponent off the board or cripple them before they have a chance to do anything
I could never get into Warhammer because when I tried to when I was younger the play group at the local game store was really toxic and rude and basically ruined the game. And on the other hand I only have good experiences with the Middle Earth strategy battle game lol
Popularity and if I like the mechanics are probably the biggest for me. I love the minis for WH Underworlds and Warcry but I'm not a fan of the mechanics. I miss the old WH stat line, M, BS, WS, Int, Ld, etc. When I first started branching out from D&D in the late 80's, one of the best things about GW as every game used those stats so you could have a squad of marines go against some knights of Brettonia (mechanics-wise of course). Not saying it was balenced at all, but it was fun in a Talisman kinda way. My group is starting up Mordheim and I'll see if that covers what I think I've been missing in these recent games.
Another X factor to consider is the personalities of the local player base. There are some games I have tried to get into and just not gelled with the local players. Case in point, a TCG I started recently. Turns out the competitive scene is way more hardcore than I would like and the game is just not fun when played against the local players. As I've got older, I've been able to recognise that a bit more quickly than in the past, but I had already invested a fair amount in the game but the local scene has left a sour taste in my mouth.
I bought Mars Attacks; love the minis but hate the game. I also bought Crooked Dice’s 7tv sci-fi game, painted the minis but have yet to play the game; since nobody in my area has even heard of it. And I backed the kickstarter for Zombicide Invader. Then sold the base game without opening the box, but kept the Kickstarter exclusive miniatures for use in other games. Buying games with miniatures is a great way to get miniatures for other games
X factor for me is rules, mostly skirmish, that i can use and if needed adapt or expand on for a modern setting. I create my own settings/lore from zombie apocalypse to a war scenario. Most of the times i use the rules to make campaigns with a bit of an rp/basebuilding aspect in them.
Trying to get people to try 40k or Kill Team had a bit of a speed bump, namely the fact that learning to play the game also means playing against me and I will most likely win if they are new. And some people just don't like that. If a game has a coop mode then you can get a group together to learn about the system and then later expand that to skirmish combat and moving from there. I've had more luck with Blackstone Fortress (which is more of a board game in 40k universe) and the guy himself and Vince's Majestic 13 and Space Station Zero. It started with the coop and then the interest grew from there.
Rules for me. A game could have the best models and most interesting lore and art, but if it isn't fun to play then what is the point? A buddy of mine is a boardgame fan, and ive played multiple types of games with him, liking some, not liking others. Over time I found the games I enjoyed the most were co-operative, tactical, and allowed for customization (be that decks of cards, characters, items, what have you). It takes time to figure out your preferences though, particularly when you just start out in a hobby, which is why I encourage folks to try as many things out as possible before investing heavily into any one product. Watch demos online, ask friends who may have it, or even pop into a local store to check it out first. Better to do a bit of legwork beforehand than to end up stuck with a pile of stuff you end up not enjoying. Great video, thanks for touching on this easily overlooked topic.
Coaching and play testing is the number one answer for me because if I get it the first time then I'll get it all the time so yes I'm glad I'm this is the most important thing
> How dumb am I for disliking BattleTech? Incredibly dumb. BattleTech is objectively the best game. It is mathematically verifiable. In 5-10 years, no one will play anything else. The people of the world will rise as one against other games and the companies that make them. The nations of the world will recognize their inferiority to those described in BattleTech lore and will reform themselves in its image. In 50 years, you and other unbelievers will be rightfully forgotten. None of that is true, but I do really like BattleTech. It has become pretty much all I play as I have gotten more and more frustrated with 40k and less and less interested in playing AoS. I also think that its reputation for being dense is played up. The starter sets all come with simplified rules that are very easy and fun to play in and of itself, which are easy to expand to the full game. The only thing that really complicates the game is infantry and tanks, which a lot of people don't use anyway. Playing with just mechs (especially Intro-tech and mechs produced before ~3070) is easy, especially when using the BattleMech Manual (which was written because Catalyst knew the old crb was poorly written). Alpha Strike is pretty much OnePage40k, but with robots.
Great video. Creating a community for a game you dig or play a popular game you aren't thrilled with is a tough choice. Glad I finally tried Blood Bowl. Straightforward rules but so much variety with all the teams and a player base that kept the game going when GW let the game go fallow once make me confident the game is going to continue
The X-factors for me to get into a game are Rules, Lore, and an extra Cost Rules are a given, I need something either snappy or I need something that has crunch but isnt too understandable. I love the look of infinity but even after several games on TTS I can't get my brain around it despite playing 40k and B-tech for years Lore as well, I love trying to fit my own setting within a setting so having something fleshed out or laid out to understand is nice, so a game like Ronin just saying "uhhh yeah so this is just feudal japan and now you're fighting" isnt enough. I needed to add a spin for friends to play like say... Making it cyberpunk And COST for sure, you can have the best rules and the best lore and the best minis but if no one can afford to play or to invite other people it makes it hard to get into. I used to have something like 5k points of tau when I started 40k with my dad in 6th ed. I sold that all in the start of 8th because he had left and I didn't like much of 8ths rules or even warhammer. If I wanted to get that same amout now I would basically be buying a used car, not to mention just the cost of all that hobby time, snipping, cleaning, glueing, putty, paint just to get it on the table As for the battletech thing it's understandable, i have a group of friends who love the lore, love the games, yet refuse to move on up from Intro-tech (the variation of the rules from the beginner box) so no heat, no internal damage, no piloting checks and such and thats ok. I kinda am the same in that I refuse to go back to 40k and Sigmar when Ome Page Rules has my back
I have fond memories of playing Battletech in college, but I cringe when I think about checking off all those heat sink bubbles (or boxes...I don't remember).
I enjoy that I could teach my son the rules for the beginner's box of Battletech and it is a fun mix between legit battletech and a more streamlined game. Your mech's armor are it's structure points, less finagling with fire archs, etc. But I also think it's completely okay to not like a game. I am surprised you didn't mention Kill Team in this video as there were 2 rulesets for it you loved, and hte new ruleset which you don't like. Seems like an apt connection to your point!
My X Factor is a light, yet cohesive rules system (like Space Weirdos, Zona Alfa, or Reign in Hell), decent warband building without needing 200+ minis (I like skirmish games). I like a fun XP system, but it is not a necessity. It all depends what the game us aiming for, like quick battles for a Saturday evening (Space Weirdos), or a longer style of play where you use the same warband through several missions, etc. (This Is Not A Test or Forbidden Psalm series) But if there is an XP system, I like all the warband members to be able to advance, and not just a few (which is the one thing I dislike about Stargrave). On another note, you should check out The Doomed. Just enough lore to cover the "WTF is going on" without a textbook worth of writing AND kitbashing out the wazoo. Tons of missions as well. Litetally tons.
X factor for me are - 1 agnostic minis or easy acess for minis with good prices since i need to import them to Brazil and 2 - easy to teach my non wargamers friends , since i live in a small city in Brazil, my friends love to play games, but usually they dont paint or collect minis , so i need to paint 2 armys and teach them
oq me esta me salvando e permitindo eu jogar é minha elegoo mars 2 e One page rules, importar GW é locura, e o preço das lojas que trazem, e o valor de um impressora 3d@@wolfrikspack6485
I am also a properly aged fellow who played Battletech as a kid. I kinda agree that it's very rules forward and kinda takes something away. But Battletech and many of the other most popular miniatures games share the one flaw which drives me crazy. D6 representing a 1 to 100 chance. It just irratates me when a d10 has been around forever.
Does it make sense that I really want to like Battletech? I have a happy connection to it from my past, but there are a lot of other great games. Same goes for Shadowrun. However, it is very difficult to get back into it. The rules alone are dense. Your last Every Other Sunday Show got me back into Heavy Gear. That needs to make a comeback. I'm still saving my coins for the Warhammer Fantasy Battle Game too. Those models have me excited. I've never played a game like that though. Hoping the lenses of nostalgia don't cloud my judgement. Great video!
Battletech is my first ever wargame. I officially started playing a couple months ago, and was fortunate enough to find a local group that was wrapping up a campaign. I've always been interested in wargaming, but with Warhammer at the forefront I've always shied away every time because of the price point. It's an insane barrier to entry, and as someone whose interest in the hobby aspect is minimal at best I couldn't justify buying into it. Battletech however is incredibly affordable, with a $60 price point (a video game) for the core box giving you everything you needed to play, and as a bonus the minis are pre built so I didn't have to bother with anything other than painting if I wanted to. The other benefit is CGL gives you the resources to play their 2 main games, Classic and alphastrike, with every box set of miniatures including the core box, so it is extremely flexible in terms of being able to play whatever game however you want. If you like big stompy robots I would argue that alsphastrike, at the very least is a great way to start especially with the current resurgence in popularity for it.
I fell in love with Dark Age back when it first came out in 2005. At the time is was sooo fresh and modern compared to my WH40k 2nd edition! Today... well... I still love the minis and lore, but I would adapt it to OPR ;-)
It's totally fine to not like Battletech. Personally, I love the idea of complicated battle systems like that, but I dont actually enjoy playing them. They make an excellent argument for computer games, where all the math and complicated bit can be done in the background.
My X-factor is really just the overall look, feel, style, etc. of the game and minis. It isn't really one thing but lots of little things that contribute to a yes or no for me.
Nice video, again. BTW: you are not dumb for disliking Battletech. I didn't care for the rules back in the eighties, although I did like the big, stommpy robots. And their marketing was good with the Lance boxes, where you could buy four mechs for a cheaper price. So, my friend and I made up our own rules and played some pretty cool games.
I still love BattleTech even though it kind of burnt me out. I loved that I could have it be a wargame or an RPG with very little conversions needed. Playing it against a competitive player almost killed it for me. As one optional rule (Kicking) became the defining mechanic in the wargame. With my other friends we were more willing to augment the rules or remove rules we didn't enjoy from our RPG heritage. But yeah, having a comp-player refuse to play with house rules due to us making it more like the Lore where flame weapons should be terrifying in a sweatbox mech really was annoying. I also think you might just be too engrossed into using every little rule in BattleTech. If you aren't worried about memorizing every rule for Warhammer, why are you trying to cram it into your mind for BattleTech?
I am not going to say "You are dumb for not liking Battletech." But, Big stompy robots just aren't my thing. But... I do have a bunch of Sisters of battle and Death Korps of Kreig that I enjoyed painting and assembling but will probably never play with... Sad I know. Sometimes for me it is just pulling up a chair coffee in hand and assembling and painting some minis. I painted up a bunch of Blood Red Skies German planes just cuz I thought it would be cooler than using the cardboard chits for Luftwaffe in B-17 Queen of the Skies.
Owing to its unit construction rules, BattleTech always was miniature agnostic. It's not humanly possible for any company to account for all custom 'Mechs and vehicles player could be fielding so proxy models were normal since the day one. Also, it doesn't have huge GW-style model line and it never had one. Ral Partha/Ironwind is not big. Proxying with any model that comes in similar scale and can be fit onto a standard hex base is just how it always worked. 3d printing is a godsend for BattleTech. I understand people not liking how crunchy are BT rules. I love the tiered rules, but at its very core BattleTech is not a miniature game. It's a hex and counters game that just happends to be playable with 3d terrain on the tabletop and its firmly baked into BT DNA. It's a perfectly understandable reaction from anyone who's into more fast play skirmish games.
my biggest factor is if I can get other people in my area to play! If I went off of gameplay and aesthetic I'd only play age of sigmar, but I play more games of warhammer 40k because of its popularity
Not dumb at all on Battle Tech I think everyone starts there it seems. We played in middle school and they High school. We had the paper cut outs lol but then we found Rogue trader and then 2nd edition 40K. Say what u will but it literally hooked us . We had the only league and had over 32 players at our peak. Made tourney brackets had handicaps and loved. We had audiences for our final four. Even made local news. We still play but only 8 now. I think a lot left due to it being mainstreamed and Tourney driven Meta. Our original games no one spammed or min max you couldn’t models just weren’t there yet! Do you think tourney mini games limit themselves in player base? It’s hard to find people who don’t do it like that anymore.
We are spoiled for choice lately in terms of excellent miniature skirmish & wargames. The issue is finding anyone willing to take a chance on a non-GW game. Thankfully, many of the modern game systems are solo-able, which is how I play Frostgrave, Burrows & Badgers, Forbidden Psalm, and The Doomed. Occasionally I’ll find someone to take me up on playing these competitively but it’s rare and even if they enjoy it, they invariably drift back to GW. It’s frustrating.
Yeah. I live in an area so saturated by GW that you will likely be cussed out for suggesting something else, even if it's like Grimdark Future where people can use their GW figures. I actually had that happen many years ago with Kings of War; I suggested to a group of WHFB players to try it out and was swiftly told to go pound sand (in a less nice way) and stop trying to push my "pet game" on people. For mentioning one time on an FLGS group there was a game like WHFB but more streamlined. It's crazy how indoctrinated many Warhammer players are, and game stores just encourage that behavior by decidg what games are "allowed" there or not (read: what games they stock so you can buy it from them) But since no game stores stock these games, and in my area, at least the game store is the center of the universe, trying to get anyone to even TRY something that's not made by GW is a Herculean effort, let alone getting people to not look down on you like you're a leper or something for not just playing 40k like everyone else.
@@Nobleshield I’ve had luck bringing these non-GW games to Library board games night. As you said, non-GW indoctrinated gamers are often intrigued and I’ve gotten a few to play through some Frostgrave scenarios with me.
Listening to this while I am working, and at @9:00 he said "The model they made for it is butt ugly" and under my breath I said "Yeah like the goddamn Obliterators". I look up and imagine my surprise! LOL I'm glad I'm not alone in this.
Just hearing the word, “BATTLETECH”, reminds me of this terrible film I seemed to enjoy as a kid called, ROBOT JOX. It was a total box office flop and even as a ten year old I remember noticing the lack of acting finesse. However I still think giant mechs always carry at least some degree of a stylish high-tech cool factor. 🤘🤖
15:01 Dumb for disliking Battletech? It is your choice, sir. I have to agree with you on the Lore, but despite the Chunky rules, it's one of the few wargames that takes into account speed as a defensive measure...That, and hexes are great
"Any game is miniatures agnostic if you believe in yourself" is a 10/10 t-shirt you're just leaving money on the table
You’re not wrong. Thanks for watching!
I was watching rules of carnage, and they were talking about miniatures agnostic as an idea. Basically everything is minis agnostic with few exceptions where the miniatures are integral to the play of the game.
I’d buy one.
I literally “hell yeah”d out loud when he said that line. 😅
Thanks for the shout out @daLEGOmaniac - appreciated!
*sees battletech thumbnail
Me: Excite!
*reads the title
Me: Son of a...
Me
X factor for me is a good campaign system in a skirmish game. I also like when all members of a warband gain experience and level up(mordheim), and not just a part of them(frostgrave,stargrave).
We're just starting Mordheim and we have 4 signed on so far! Sisters, Undead, Fen and one undecided. I can't wait to get started.
yes, that's exactly why I miss so much old Necromunda - for me probably the best campaign ever...
Thankfully, it’s easy to homebrew some campaign rewards for your entire Frostgrave warband
My X factor seems to be complete opposite. How fun is the game as unconnected scenarios.
Ya there is a way to play Warhammer 40k like that I hear, I forget its name its like Campains or Narrative or something. If you win a game you get extra stuff next game. So if the winner is on a roll it makes the game even easyer for em. I never tried it but I would. Take care fellow war gammer.
My experience, from 20+ years in a hobby store, is that miniature wargames have a different barrier to entry.
This might be obvious, but unlike other board games you need to make a considerable investment in both time and money, but especially time.
Which in turn means that people grow wary of miniature games NOT from say Games Workshop. The thinking being: Will this game even be around by the time I get an army built up? And will it still be there in 2-3 years or will my investment in time be wasted on game no longer supported?
If you’re looking to get into an ever-evolving gaming ecosystem, then yes - this would be a consideration. However, once you buy a ruleset, you can play it anytime you want in the future as long as you’re willing to teach people to play. Thanks for watching!
The irony here is that if you do buy into playing a Games Workshop game it may be discontinued also, the way Mordheim and Necromunda were. And if you go with long lived 40K the rules will change, and you will have to buy the new edition, and probably a bunch more models
@@fauxpukka you are not wrong.
GW may be shooting itself in the foot in the pursuit of more profits.
They change the rules so much and so often that you have to buy new models all the time.
But a (for arguments sake) Roman Legionary army is going to be useful no matter what the rule-set of the day is, right? You buy and paint it once and as long as you dont have a rush of blood to the head and sell it, there are always people playing ancients and you can keep playing that army until the day you die.
Until two years ago I was with you on battletech, but then I started playing mechwarrior 5 on the xbox. Got me into the lore, the look of (some) mechs and the next thing you know i've brought a box of minis "just to paint" then the alpha strike starter box came out, so I picked that up to give the game a go and enjoyed it.
I love Battletech for two main reasons: I played Mechwarrior as a teenager and I really enjoy the lore. Having well fleshed out lore is a big draw for me for any game. The rule books are big but the rules aren't that complicated in my experience. The rule books happen to include a lot of optional rules that large portions of the community have been using for decades and a lot of rules that handle corner case situations that come up.
If it's not for you, then that's fine. Different strokes for different folks.
Same here. Game of Thrones in space plus some more...
Although I have never played the tabletop game (I have played a couple of the computer/console games), I have been a fan of Battle tech/Mechwarrior for a long time and that was almost entirely down to the lore. It has such a good back history. I must have read most of the novels, starting off with the Grey Death Legion books.
I have to admit my interest began to slip when the focus turned largely to the Clans and that was in part because I didn't like the Clan mech designs.
But I do have a large number of the old anime kits, particularly from the Macross series, where the designs were....borrowed for Battletech. Many of those are 1/72 or 1/100 scale and I have had a number makeshift games (no idea now where the rules came from) with a mix of mechs, modern looking tanks (Merkava and Leopard II I think) and 1/72 modern troops which were quite fun (not that the troops stood a chance).
But at the end of the day it was the lore that pulled me in - ok and realising the mechs were from a favourite anime show.
You may like Alpha Strike if Battletech Classic is a bit too crunchy.
@@1nONLY_DRockI personly like classic more than alpha strike. What I like the most in battletech is that you can decide on how deep the rules are! If you want weather, gravity etc. you can to have it or just play with the introduction rules.
@@oOComatoseOo You can include environmental conditions in Alpha Strike too.
I will concede that from a narrative standpoint the classic game is better. When your game's outcome can be influenced by highly detailed amount of battle damage it adds drama and excitement.
But if you're more into larger scale games Alpha Strike is the way to go. It can tell just as much of a compelling story. The emphasis is placed elsewhere. Less worrying about your dodgy gyro and more about your troop placement and tactics.
I love using 15mm FoW minis to play BoltAction as written. The change in scale makes the ranges feel WAY better and allows for larger maps on the same sized table
I do the same. It has become my preferred way of playing BA. Especially Tank War works better at 15mm I find.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, at that scale, I would have to be the one to provide everything, because everyone else playing the game is using 28mm.
As an aspiring skirmish game designer, this is an excellent guideline on what I should be on the lookout for and what shortfalls I will encounter. Thanks, Uncle Atom!
you caught my interest, what're you working on? got a dev page?
@@Yamifira Nothing more than just a spreadsheet right now. It's also just a tabletop skirmish game, so not quite a video game lol.
@@RavenAdventwings still had to ask for a page where you post development updates and i stopped caring about video games a long while ago :D
@@Yamifira I'll set something up... somewhere(?) when I get around to it lol. Thanks for showing interest!
I saw the title, watched the video, well played. Riding that sweet Battletech train for the TH-cam Overlords. I can't blame you.
I think my X factors were partially influenced by Battletech since that's what I played when I was young.
I can't deal with mini games that go so hard on the WYSIWYG mentality. I don't want to bicker over the table for minutes because the data sheet says I have a plasma rifle but clearly my mini has missile pods. Let's just roll dice and blow up stuff already.
This is why I liked Battletech's system, sure you COULD alter miniatures if you want but you don't have to do it.
I did find it funny you bring up Steel Rift with their "Authorities, corporations, and free lancers" and all I could think was "So this is just Battletech with a slimmed down lore? Because we have all three if you follow it". I really should look at Steel Rift's rulebook but based on what I see on the site it feels like they made a sci fi-Battletech-like game but added more WYSIWYG into it. More power to those who like that, but I'm not going to judge them either way good or bad until I read the rulebook.
That brings me to my second X factor: Some games don't let you look at the engine. They'll give you a stat block, but no reasoning behind it. Why was this unit 3 strength and 4 save on armor? No answer? Oh well okay I guess. I was spoiled for math choices in Battletech. They gave not only the kitchen sink, metaphorically, but the whole kitchen and allow us to make our sandwich if we don't like the current menu.
The rules don't feel that the rules are dense compared to something like 40k. Sure there's armor, crits, and some record keeping but 40k does insidious things like making you not only buy a big book for your faction, but now you also need the OTHER guy's book for his faction, and all their special gimmicks. Again I go back to Battletech's ability to just say in maybe two books "Okay this super advanced laser? Yeah you die to it due to X, so partially the fault is yours."
Going back to the minis on Steel Rift for a brief tangent, I don't like them. They don't feel "complete". I can see the silhouette, I get the shapes, but overall it still feels like someone's early renders and maybe one day they'll fill it out. Maybe its the empty space on some of them or the simple geometry, I don't know, but it might be fun for all I know.
Then again I could never get into 40K because it felt like they took their Warhammer Fantasy into space then took the piss out of someone's Catholic School years and put all that into the lore. So I guess where you are with Battletech, I am with 40k. We both see these titles and go "Come on really?"
So you aren't wrong for not liking Battletech. Heck even us fans of it hate something from it. That's the secret to the fandom: We have plenty to grip at about it and still love defending or bashing it and rolling the die. I will stand with you though on the idea that more titles like Steel Rift need some love on the LFGS tables so folks can see these and explore on their own. We all can't be dominated by juggernauts like Games Workshop after all.
Battletechs main charm is its grindyness for many. I'm also funnily enough a huge fan of its sci -fi neo feudalism and the idea that humanity is our own worst enemy
When I compare Battletech to 40k, it's always "No aliens, chaos, or magic. We're the problem. It's us".
I know I've looked into several "adventure" style tabletop games, because they sound right up my alley, but then I try to read the rulebooks and they seem so complicated and so indulgent in design and I emotionally revolt at the idea of having to play them. Then again I also grabbed a Warcry book to read in case I wanted to try that since I heard good things, and I quickly just got to the point where I was like, 'EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE CAMPAIGN SYSTEM ACTUALLY WORKS IN REAL LIFE LIKE A HUMAN BEING WOULD,' I just get frustrated at weirdly convoluted books as I'm getting older.
The campaign ia easy and fun. Try reading it again. It is worth it.
For me personally, Space Weirdos ticks all the boxes for what I'm looking at in a game. Strong, simple but effective game mechanics, I'm free to invent my own lore and background to games and it is completely miniature agnostic. I'm running participation games of Space Weirdos at our podcast's gaming event next weekend and I'm hoping that by the end of the day, we'll have a few more converts to this awesome game.
It’s really great, and ticks all the boxes for me. I haven’t built a bespoke Space Weirdos group in a bit, I should do that again soon. Thanks for watching!
Definitely this, in fact if it hadn't been for your video about it, I'd have probably been none the wiser about Space Weirdos. Unique game mechanics and a chance to kitbash my own miniatures really did sell it.
Space weirdos is awesome. It is my go to for the same reasons. I am starting out with Sword Weirdos too, which has a little more noodle but still has the same base x factors.
As an old BattleTech grognard, heck I wrote for FASA back in the day, I get your ambivalence to the rules, setting, and the models. No shade from me if you don't play. I haven't played BattleTech since Covid, and quite frankly probably won't ever play another game. Still got the miniatures. I do love me some mecha.
However, I don't like WH40K, even though I was a fan of WFB back in the day. Too many skulls, too grimdark, too nihilistic etc. Though saying that I love the Caphais Cain stories. The fact that one of my best friends wrote them probably plays a big factor in that. He's an entertaining writer.
What I'm looking for in my games varies.
I enjoy playing X-wing, though I'm not into the competitive side of the game. I just like the ships, everybody knows the setting, and it makes for a relaxed fun session, with nail-biting decisions. I also play some boardgames, but not super into them. Also, can't remember the last RPG session I played.
What keeps me in the hobby is my love of SF, especially mecha, and I'm still searching (trying to create) for my perfect game, which would have to scratch my SF needs (plausible tech and setting), and be a proper wargame (command and control). Sadly I've not reached this goal. I'll probably never will. It's sad, but it's my life, and sad though it is, the alternatives are far worse.
I love coop/solo-games and I think my x-factor for them is becoming "resolved" few moves into it, when creators dontt put any extra stuff, just decission trees for enemies and no variants for behavior to surprise.
Game that handles it well is Rangers of the shadowdeep - with its random events at the end of every turn which are mission-specific, tailor-made for flavor, important and same for discovieries on clue-tokens and objectives.
There are quite few examples of "ok, on average this boss will make this many attacks I will need to make this many and it is done". It gers very boring, very fast and you are going through the motion.
Can I get an example of random rangers goodness?
@@DaLEGOmaniac Sure!
From first scenario in "base" book - when investigating abandoned village events range from suddenly appearing zombies, to one of the building colapsing.
From "boss fight" - random events represents its seplls being casted. For example sudden explosion of fire around closest model, or black tentacles rooting it in place
Those events happen 1 per turn so wont overwhelm you, but are impactful enough to alter your current plans.
Steel Rift looks awesome. I'd love to give it a go but without a UK distributor the shipping costs are spicier than ghost pepper. Edit: For the official minis that is.
It's an adaptable-enough ruleset to just use Battletech minis. The expansion adds combined arms with infantry and vehicles.
An important x-factor for me is support. How well does a company grow the game, handle edition changes and generally supports the community.
The long term viability of a game isn't always important, but for a big minis game it can be crucial.
Big games need healthy stewardship.
This seems to be the case for a lot of people. Personally I’m the opposite. I prefer “dead” games where I can learn the rules and get comfortable with them without having them constantly change or be errataed. I only play older editions of GW games now. I tried keeping up with 40K, but I had to buy new books more often than I got to play the game, and never even got the chance to learn the rules properly before having to do it all over again.
I have even found that after getting into some new, cool games, whenever there has been some big rules changes or important erratas, I have just abandoned the game in favor of something else rather than trying to relearn it.
You could probably say that an x-factor for me is consistency.
@@XavierMcV The fact that Mordheim is "dead" is partly why I'd like to give it a go one day. Any rules changes are unofficial and implemented by dedicated fans who have been playing it for years. I don't need to feel like part of a growing community or attend massive events. All those things cost money, and the weird niche models that I want to collect will always be phased out to attract that wider audience.
I'm working on a Skirmish/Co-op game, so this video was super informative.
Elevator Pitch - Combat Tails a game of Anthropomorphic animals; Mammals vs Reptiles in GI Joe-esque battles.
I have a few minis up on MMF right now.
...Interesting. Didn't think I'd meet someone with the same minds. But it appears you have your ducks in a row while mine's still just stats on an excel sheet (lol).
This video is exactly what I needed. I've been struggling with deciding on a starter army for Warhammer and everyone's number on piece of advice is "pick what looks cool to you" which is fine enough, but I would hate so much buying, building, then paining only to find out that the army needs a completely different play-style to what I would enjoy playing.
40k is a shooting game.
Old guy like you and have been wargaming for almost 50 years now. Started with plastic army men and just graduated as I got older and more money. BattleTech was a go to until they released the Clans, then I totally got away from it. Have played a bit since then as long as it is the old stuff (will never play Clan Era). I have just recently gotten the Steel Rift rules and rather like them. Going to dig out some BT stuff and have a go to properly play the rules, but just reading them I think I will like them.
That is one advantage to having played so many rulesets, from Fantasy/Sci-Fi and a whole range of historical, I can usually just read thru some rules and get a good idea of how they are designed, how game play will be and if it is something I want to invest in. Luckily I know the guys at the local shop and they let me have time to read stuff before buying. They know if I like it I will be all in so worth it to them to make sure it is something i really want.
I tend to write all my own rules and then use the minis I like from all over the place. I use Battle tech models with 15mm sf minis and basicaly anything that look right in 15mm scale no matter where is come from or what scale its ment to be.
I mean for me if it wasn't for Tex Talks Battletech I wouldn't be was into the Battletech lore as much as I am. Now I am not a big fan of the tabletop, but that's fine I can play it on PC and get my big stompy murder machine fix.
I love the latest Battletech sculpts. I wish I had time to paint them. Mine will be Clan Grey for a while.
Understand not liking the lore. That's a point where tastes will definitley vary.
In this video Adam talks about a UK TV talent show... One thing that puts me off is hype. If "everyone" is "talking" about a game it gets to the point where you just want to "switch off". Ditto for video games, especially if I don't have the required hardware. Being a public transit user, having to cart tons of terrain around, after having made it, also puts me off, I bought into Warlord's Judge Dredd game, only to realise that my gaming buddy's and mine 40k terrain isn't entirely suitable, and thus we've never played it...
Absolutely, I wanted to love both Infinity (models are amazing) and Crisis Protocol (been a comic nerd for 30 years). In both cases I bought in, built and painted, got it on the table, and hated it.
Yup, I agree. Loved the Infinity models but think the game is trash.
Same here. The Infinity models are some of the best in the market. The rules however get bogged down with too many special rules and abilities.
Im with you on Crisis Protocol as well. The scenarios are basically all the same with subtle variations.
Soo.. I (like you) discovered battletech in my younger years (don't switch off I am not going to tell you, you are crazy for not liking battletech). I moved away to most of the same games that I see you talk about. I went back to battletech recently and I have to say it's not as crunchy as I remember it. I agree though you have to find the games that are right for YOU and people should not tell you what to like or not like... that's just controlling and silly. So more power to you with Steel Rift.. It looks like a great game from another great creator :)
The battletech universe has always appealed to me. The video games were always engaging and a lot of fun. The things that always kept me out was the minis and the stereotype of the people who played(more grognardy than other communities).
The kickstarters really solved both issues for me. The new minis looked great compared to the old stuff, and it attracted players like me who kinda kept it at arms length while playing more "polished" games. Once I started playing, the rules felt really intuitive to me as someone who played the video games and had previous wargame experience. And with all the stls and 3d printers out there, it's really accelerated the growth of the community as well
I think your basic dislike of BattleTech might be that it is basically a historical game. It gets played at Historicon a lot. There used to be a huge crossover between the BattleTech players and historical players.
There is tons of lore, and the hardcore players talk about the events in the books like the events actually happened. Gets frustrating for someone like me who just wants to destroy things with big stompy robots and has no interest who succeeded who and what battle did what.
This is true but not the norm. Battletech is, for better or worse, incredibly modular - both in terms of rules and "game modes". Looking at the extremes, it can be as simple as possible for a quick skirmish using Alpha Strike or detailed to the point of a believable mech combat and campaign simulator not unlike those seen for WW2 or Cold War gone hot. AND you can dial it to be anything in between to suit your tastes. It's this massive amplitude that can be a deterrent, but also what has made many cherish the game for as long as they have. Some folks have homebrew a sort of "standard" to reduce the amount of planning necessary to get a game going and even extending it to tournaments, but the way Catalyst Game Labs presents it very much leans on scenarios and campaign play.
In terms of lore and universe I'd argue there's definitely an introductory setting but also an equal range of events and eras to suit anyone's taste, although yes, it's hard to escape feudalism as it rules the majority of known space. That's a matter of personal taste, really.
A place where it definitely shines is the miniatures. Yes, lots of x-factors there (quality, style, material, scale, price, availability, etc...), but the biggest advantage is that no matter what you're playing, your miniatures will always be relevant, compatible and even extendable to other game systems. There are no signs that will change anytime soon.
I think you may be on to something here.
@@bfenix I think he has a point though. It is a sci-fi historical game. Yeah you can play historical games more casually and lighter but it doesn't change what it is at heart. I like historicals. I'm old now. But always loved Battletech.
I had no idea that Battletech would be important to historical guys. I've always read that as you get older ...you get closer to historical. 👴🏾
I get that, and you do see people if not taking part in BT historic events directly, somehow incorporating their game in a way that connects to the greater narrative. Still, nothing stops you from throwing two lances at each other and just to see who comes out on top and have a great time regardless. @@NewSquallor
As someone who's deep in the BattleTech hole - I've been playing it for decades, I'm on the demo team, I playtest and I write for Shrapnel - I fully get people not liking the game. It's very much a relic of the 80s, at a point when it was a quick and easy alternative to games like Harpoon and Advanced Squad Leader, but because the rules have remained largely static it's stood still while other wargames have shifted and changed. I've not played 40K in many years but it's not difficult to see how much of the often needless complexity of Rogue Trader was pared away over the first few editions, and it was probably for the better of the game overall.
BattleTech sticking so closely to the original rules (well, for mech combat, there's been extensive changes to other elements) has its advantages as well, of course. I think it's helped the renaissance for the game that returning players can pull out that 2nd edition rules booklet from 1985 and only have to contend with two or three changes, at least one of them having no actual difference to gameplay.
Ultimately though not every game is going to be for every player, there are plenty of wargames my friends love that I bounce off - 40K being the biggest example. There's nothing wrong with that so long as you don't become one of those people that can't accept other people like different things and you act like a dick over it.
I was around for their start as "Cool Mini Or Not" and subsequently the change over to "Sea-Mon". A few years back they announced to everyone that they're actually pronounced "Come-On". I refuse to say that word in the same way you have refused to change to Sea-Mon. 😃
I finally jumped to Warmachine in mk3 after years of admiring from a distance. It didn’t take me long to realize I hated the mechanics of the game. The miniatures are amazing.
I tend to like skirmish level games. GW doesn't really make those (Killteam doesn't scratch that itch), though I really "love" the lore they've built. Recently, I'm starting to prefer mini-agnostic games, and modern or near-modern games specifically. Even more recently, I've gotten into solo miniature games. Though I enjoyed your take on any game can be mini-agnostic if you believe in yourself. 😂 Great video. Thanks!
Skirmish games are love. Relic Blade, MERCS, Bushido, Bot War, Malifaux and so forth are all such solid games. And you can have a ton of options and variety in the same number of models as a small army in a mass battle game.
Excellent insights!
I'm with you... I enjoyed Battle Tech 35 years. But the dense rules got old quick. I feel similarly about 40k. I thought the grimdark art and lore was cool in 1988... but dear god... I'm so over it. It's boring to me now. Plus the rules for 40k haven't really improved... Even with 10 editions. I recently heard a young man new to the hobby describe his first 40k experience as, "I roll dice to see how many dice to roll... to see how many dice you roll. Then you do it a lot while I wait. Then I do it a lot while you wait."
I'm so glad we live in a world with so many games to choose from.
Good point. I haven't been gaming as long as you, started in 2020, but did D&D back in the mid 80's when I had plenty of time, but no money. It seems 40k has become a prisoner of its success, there's not really much they can do to innovate on the rules, because of the massive following. I like Firefight because it does little things like having the attacking player roll to hit and resolve the enemy armor save. That little tweak saves so much time.
Oh, and try Alpha Strike. Simpler ruleset, you're not bound by the hexgrid, and you can do larger-scale battles without spending an entire weekend.
I'm a big fan of BattleTech and have also been exploring Alpha Strike recently. One thing I can already observe on the latter is it isn't a simpler game, just "different complexity" to Classic BT.
Interesting video, I'm always interested in your philosophical observations on all things wargaming.
I've been a Battletech fan for over 30 years now, and I agree--the lore is lacking and often stupid, and the rules are quite crunchy and tedious. The introduction of 2015 of Alpha Strike, the quick-play version of Battletech, was total game changer (pun intended); I now can field dozens of models, and the game doesn't take all day to play. It's a lot easier to introduce people to the Battletech universe using Alpha Strike.
I built a mancave in my backyard to set up Battletech campaigns that last weeks. 40 years later and still love it. Just received my Mercenaries kickstarter last week. I plan to pick up a copy of Steel Rift some day.
Battletech is great because you can quit your job and family to play a campaign with a span of control from fleets of warships all the way down to squad level infantry actions with everything in between.
Anyone who actually likes Battletech will totally understand someone not liking the mechanics. It's more of a simulation or historical war game then something made for pure fun.
Lore is 80% of Battletech's enduring power.
10% Robots
10% Fun
OMG yes this. I've known folks that gush over the Lore but when you bring up the game they look at you confused, because they never really heard about or cared for the game behind it. Gotten similar results with the video game fans too. They enjoy that merc hustle life. I can't blame them sometimes.
I really like these videos. A step back and assess thought.
I think the rules are most important to me. A company that will release "core" or "demo" rules will at least get a look, or if they are very inexpensive (looking at you, space weirdos). Yes we play Alpha Strike and no, you shouldn't have to re-evaluate your decision making paradigm because you don't like a game I do. Quite the contrary, I'm thinking I would like to dive into Steel Rift and see that game.
Good video, keep 'em coming!!
This is me with Infinity. Several of my friends are HUGELY into it and tout its virtues all the time as the best most balancedest game ever, and its just like a brick wall to me. I've tried, numerous times, to pick that game up, and there's just something about the gazillion acronyms, the fiddly list building, the extremely jargon heavy and tournament focused community that just makes it like oil and water for me
And I 100% agree with you on the Battletech plastic minis. I hate the material they use, and as a veteran kitbasher, I severely dislike preassembled minis.
Preassembled minis are a huge plus for me. I have zero interest in trying to glue a bunch of pieces together. I just want to slapchop some paint on the model and put 'em on the table
I've bounced off a few game systems that I thought I would love, pretty much every time it's been the rules that have been the issue rather than anything else. Although sometimes really good games can be ruined by having really bad players!
I've been very lucky that the group I play with enjoy a variety of games so even if one week it's a game I don't enjoy as much, chances are the next week I might.
As for Alpha Strike, the starter rules that come with the boxed games are pretty slimmed down, the hardback rules add a bunch of extras but I played the out of the box rules for a year before I bothered to get the hardback, and have had an absolute blast with collecting, painting and playing. Like you I played the original Battletech in the 80s with the cardboard standees, but then didn't touch it for over 35 years. Anyway, not trying to change your opinion on it, just adding mine!
Very nicely presented and thoughtful. I have two main X factors- rules and the ability to build and expand within factions (or armies). I am fairly fortunate in the openness of my gaming group to different games.
Historically speaking, the rise of 40k is interesting. Back in the 90’s, it had pretty strong competition in Warzone, but then one flamec out and the other dominated the market.
And it'd such a shame, because Warzone was absolutely the superior game. Better rules, better look and better lore.
Very interesting video 🤔. I'm going to have to have a deep think about the points you raise. I need to figure out why I am here at all! I am mainly a Sci-fi modeller who tried a bit of mini painting as a break from all the spaceship grey and discovered a whole new world. Through a "local" TH-camr (Magratheabuilderofworlds) I discovered the Judge Dredd game, an IP I have loved since reading 2000AD as a kid, and Burrows and Badgers which is charming. I have enjoyed building and painting minis for both games but as of this moment, I have never actually played a wargame, even solo! I dicovered Battletech through the Mechwarrior video games, which I love, and so have done a few minis (and a couple of larger models) from this IP but am not interested in the actual tabletop game. As an innate rebel I am actively repelled by the herd mentality and so am not interested in GW content and like you am left cold by lots of "lore". This makes options for local games quite limited! Having said all that, I am actually going to a wargaming show in London at the weekend just because I found Salute 50 fun! I hope to catch Every Other Sunday on the way home. Also hope to catch your Twitch stream later 👍
I wanna know more about that t-shirt
dark age aztecs were extremely rad
I'm so glad model agnostic systems are becoming more common. Its a huge pain and big barrier to entry to test out a new system at local shops
I really enjoy you share your thoughts and opinions regardless of what they maybe. It's refreshing know know that it's ok to like/dislike certain things. Many times others, my self included, get ridiculed for our preferences in games. Sometimes I wish I could change my own mind but your are correct regarding the X-Factor, when something really bothers you, it's almost impossible to ignore.
On the topic of rules I am currently branching out from the GW sphere. I played warmachine MK1 for a couple of months before i moved and parted ways with all the models. Getting back into MK4 for two main reasons. I remember always having fun playing it and Free Rules.
OnePageRules.... The backstory... non-present. The game... so niiice. Thanks again for pointing that game out to me.
I found that my X Factor is alternating activations, I can't stand pure IGOUGO anymore. Started with 40k which birthed my contempt for it (Beyond all the money gouging GW practices both in rules and models) and thankfully I went full tilt into Middle Earth SBG (Alternating phases, simultaneous "Fight" phase for melee action) and Legion (Alternating activations) as my "big army" games. I also really dig how Infinity handles the "Reactive" player though I don't get a chance to play it as often.
40k for me. Just don't find it fun that it's possible to alpha strikes your opponent off the board or cripple them before they have a chance to do anything
I could never get into Warhammer because when I tried to when I was younger the play group at the local game store was really toxic and rude and basically ruined the game. And on the other hand I only have good experiences with the Middle Earth strategy battle game lol
Popularity and if I like the mechanics are probably the biggest for me. I love the minis for WH Underworlds and Warcry but I'm not a fan of the mechanics. I miss the old WH stat line, M, BS, WS, Int, Ld, etc. When I first started branching out from D&D in the late 80's, one of the best things about GW as every game used those stats so you could have a squad of marines go against some knights of Brettonia (mechanics-wise of course). Not saying it was balenced at all, but it was fun in a Talisman kinda way. My group is starting up Mordheim and I'll see if that covers what I think I've been missing in these recent games.
Hey, this is me with Age of Sigmar and current edition 40k.
Another X factor to consider is the personalities of the local player base. There are some games I have tried to get into and just not gelled with the local players. Case in point, a TCG I started recently. Turns out the competitive scene is way more hardcore than I would like and the game is just not fun when played against the local players. As I've got older, I've been able to recognise that a bit more quickly than in the past, but I had already invested a fair amount in the game but the local scene has left a sour taste in my mouth.
I bought Mars Attacks; love the minis but hate the game. I also bought Crooked Dice’s 7tv sci-fi game, painted the minis but have yet to play the game; since nobody in my area has even heard of it. And I backed the kickstarter for Zombicide Invader. Then sold the base game without opening the box, but kept the Kickstarter exclusive miniatures for use in other games. Buying games with miniatures is a great way to get miniatures for other games
X factor for me is rules, mostly skirmish, that i can use and if needed adapt or expand on for a modern setting. I create my own settings/lore from zombie apocalypse to a war scenario. Most of the times i use the rules to make campaigns with a bit of an rp/basebuilding aspect in them.
Trying to get people to try 40k or Kill Team had a bit of a speed bump, namely the fact that learning to play the game also means playing against me and I will most likely win if they are new. And some people just don't like that.
If a game has a coop mode then you can get a group together to learn about the system and then later expand that to skirmish combat and moving from there. I've had more luck with Blackstone Fortress (which is more of a board game in 40k universe) and the guy himself and Vince's Majestic 13 and Space Station Zero. It started with the coop and then the interest grew from there.
This whole video was just a giant roast session. Heck yeah, get them Atom!
LOL at your comment about Battletech. I'm a BT and AS player but understand that not everyone likes to play the game.
Rules for me. A game could have the best models and most interesting lore and art, but if it isn't fun to play then what is the point? A buddy of mine is a boardgame fan, and ive played multiple types of games with him, liking some, not liking others. Over time I found the games I enjoyed the most were co-operative, tactical, and allowed for customization (be that decks of cards, characters, items, what have you). It takes time to figure out your preferences though, particularly when you just start out in a hobby, which is why I encourage folks to try as many things out as possible before investing heavily into any one product. Watch demos online, ask friends who may have it, or even pop into a local store to check it out first. Better to do a bit of legwork beforehand than to end up stuck with a pile of stuff you end up not enjoying. Great video, thanks for touching on this easily overlooked topic.
Coaching and play testing is the number one answer for me because if I get it the first time then I'll get it all the time so yes I'm glad I'm this is the most important thing
Damn you, Uncle Atom, saying 'maybe you should sell games you don't play' JUST as my partner walks into the room!
> How dumb am I for disliking BattleTech?
Incredibly dumb. BattleTech is objectively the best game. It is mathematically verifiable. In 5-10 years, no one will play anything else. The people of the world will rise as one against other games and the companies that make them. The nations of the world will recognize their inferiority to those described in BattleTech lore and will reform themselves in its image. In 50 years, you and other unbelievers will be rightfully forgotten.
None of that is true, but I do really like BattleTech. It has become pretty much all I play as I have gotten more and more frustrated with 40k and less and less interested in playing AoS. I also think that its reputation for being dense is played up. The starter sets all come with simplified rules that are very easy and fun to play in and of itself, which are easy to expand to the full game. The only thing that really complicates the game is infantry and tanks, which a lot of people don't use anyway. Playing with just mechs (especially Intro-tech and mechs produced before ~3070) is easy, especially when using the BattleMech Manual (which was written because Catalyst knew the old crb was poorly written). Alpha Strike is pretty much OnePage40k, but with robots.
Great video. Creating a community for a game you dig or play a popular game you aren't thrilled with is a tough choice. Glad I finally tried Blood Bowl. Straightforward rules but so much variety with all the teams and a player base that kept the game going when GW let the game go fallow once make me confident the game is going to continue
The X-factors for me to get into a game are Rules, Lore, and an extra Cost
Rules are a given, I need something either snappy or I need something that has crunch but isnt too understandable. I love the look of infinity but even after several games on TTS I can't get my brain around it despite playing 40k and B-tech for years
Lore as well, I love trying to fit my own setting within a setting so having something fleshed out or laid out to understand is nice, so a game like Ronin just saying "uhhh yeah so this is just feudal japan and now you're fighting" isnt enough. I needed to add a spin for friends to play like say... Making it cyberpunk
And COST for sure, you can have the best rules and the best lore and the best minis but if no one can afford to play or to invite other people it makes it hard to get into. I used to have something like 5k points of tau when I started 40k with my dad in 6th ed. I sold that all in the start of 8th because he had left and I didn't like much of 8ths rules or even warhammer. If I wanted to get that same amout now I would basically be buying a used car, not to mention just the cost of all that hobby time, snipping, cleaning, glueing, putty, paint just to get it on the table
As for the battletech thing it's understandable, i have a group of friends who love the lore, love the games, yet refuse to move on up from Intro-tech (the variation of the rules from the beginner box) so no heat, no internal damage, no piloting checks and such and thats ok. I kinda am the same in that I refuse to go back to 40k and Sigmar when Ome Page Rules has my back
I have fond memories of playing Battletech in college, but I cringe when I think about checking off all those heat sink bubbles (or boxes...I don't remember).
I enjoy that I could teach my son the rules for the beginner's box of Battletech and it is a fun mix between legit battletech and a more streamlined game. Your mech's armor are it's structure points, less finagling with fire archs, etc.
But I also think it's completely okay to not like a game. I am surprised you didn't mention Kill Team in this video as there were 2 rulesets for it you loved, and hte new ruleset which you don't like. Seems like an apt connection to your point!
My X Factor is a light, yet cohesive rules system (like Space Weirdos, Zona Alfa, or Reign in Hell), decent warband building without needing 200+ minis (I like skirmish games). I like a fun XP system, but it is not a necessity. It all depends what the game us aiming for, like quick battles for a Saturday evening (Space Weirdos), or a longer style of play where you use the same warband through several missions, etc. (This Is Not A Test or Forbidden Psalm series) But if there is an XP system, I like all the warband members to be able to advance, and not just a few (which is the one thing I dislike about Stargrave). On another note, you should check out The Doomed. Just enough lore to cover the "WTF is going on" without a textbook worth of writing AND kitbashing out the wazoo. Tons of missions as well. Litetally tons.
Thanks for putting me onto Steel Rift... looks exactly like something I can get into with the fam!!
This totally explains war machine for me I should have loved it but I just could never click why it wasn’t fun or going anywhere for me
Another great show thank you
X factor for me are - 1 agnostic minis or easy acess for minis with good prices since i need to import them to Brazil and 2 - easy to teach my non wargamers friends , since i live in a small city in Brazil, my friends love to play games, but usually they dont paint or collect minis , so i need to paint 2 armys and teach them
Conheço o sentimento. 😂
oq me esta me salvando e permitindo eu jogar é minha elegoo mars 2 e One page rules, importar GW é locura, e o preço das lojas que trazem, e o valor de um impressora 3d@@wolfrikspack6485
I am also a properly aged fellow who played Battletech as a kid. I kinda agree that it's very rules forward and kinda takes something away.
But Battletech and many of the other most popular miniatures games share the one flaw which drives me crazy. D6 representing a 1 to 100 chance. It just irratates me when a d10 has been around forever.
Does it make sense that I really want to like Battletech? I have a happy connection to it from my past, but there are a lot of other great games. Same goes for Shadowrun. However, it is very difficult to get back into it. The rules alone are dense. Your last Every Other Sunday Show got me back into Heavy Gear. That needs to make a comeback. I'm still saving my coins for the Warhammer Fantasy Battle Game too. Those models have me excited. I've never played a game like that though. Hoping the lenses of nostalgia don't cloud my judgement. Great video!
Battletech is my first ever wargame. I officially started playing a couple months ago, and was fortunate enough to find a local group that was wrapping up a campaign. I've always been interested in wargaming, but with Warhammer at the forefront I've always shied away every time because of the price point. It's an insane barrier to entry, and as someone whose interest in the hobby aspect is minimal at best I couldn't justify buying into it. Battletech however is incredibly affordable, with a $60 price point (a video game) for the core box giving you everything you needed to play, and as a bonus the minis are pre built so I didn't have to bother with anything other than painting if I wanted to. The other benefit is CGL gives you the resources to play their 2 main games, Classic and alphastrike, with every box set of miniatures including the core box, so it is extremely flexible in terms of being able to play whatever game however you want. If you like big stompy robots I would argue that alsphastrike, at the very least is a great way to start especially with the current resurgence in popularity for it.
I fell in love with Dark Age back when it first came out in 2005. At the time is was sooo fresh and modern compared to my WH40k 2nd edition!
Today... well... I still love the minis and lore, but I would adapt it to OPR ;-)
the character on your t shirt made me think of buff version of Sam Eagle from thr muppet show
"Undead cowpokes or whatever" is classic Tabletop Minions.
this is how i feel about killteam! i’ve played like 10 games and while i love the concept, the game itself just does not click for me
It's totally fine to not like Battletech. Personally, I love the idea of complicated battle systems like that, but I dont actually enjoy playing them. They make an excellent argument for computer games, where all the math and complicated bit can be done in the background.
My X-factor is really just the overall look, feel, style, etc. of the game and minis. It isn't really one thing but lots of little things that contribute to a yes or no for me.
Great video and rundown of the X-factors. Quick question about your Dark Age experience. When did you check out the game?
I think it was 2017 or 2018 or so. Thanks for watching!
Nice video, again.
BTW: you are not dumb for disliking Battletech. I didn't care for the rules back in the eighties, although I did like the big, stommpy robots. And their marketing was good with the Lance boxes, where you could buy four mechs for a cheaper price.
So, my friend and I made up our own rules and played some pretty cool games.
You might want to check out "Full Spectrum Dominance" for a slick small scale combined arms game
I still love BattleTech even though it kind of burnt me out. I loved that I could have it be a wargame or an RPG with very little conversions needed. Playing it against a competitive player almost killed it for me. As one optional rule (Kicking) became the defining mechanic in the wargame. With my other friends we were more willing to augment the rules or remove rules we didn't enjoy from our RPG heritage. But yeah, having a comp-player refuse to play with house rules due to us making it more like the Lore where flame weapons should be terrifying in a sweatbox mech really was annoying.
I also think you might just be too engrossed into using every little rule in BattleTech. If you aren't worried about memorizing every rule for Warhammer, why are you trying to cram it into your mind for BattleTech?
Since getting into this hobby…
I do get fatigue with the set up, and ……. Clean up.
Thanks for the content! Your videos always make me feel better!
I am not going to say "You are dumb for not liking Battletech." But, Big stompy robots just aren't my thing. But... I do have a bunch of Sisters of battle and Death Korps of Kreig that I enjoyed painting and assembling but will probably never play with... Sad I know. Sometimes for me it is just pulling up a chair coffee in hand and assembling and painting some minis. I painted up a bunch of Blood Red Skies German planes just cuz I thought it would be cooler than using the cardboard chits for Luftwaffe in B-17 Queen of the Skies.
Star wars Shatterpoint is the first skirmish game I really got into, and it turns out to be a great game for newcomers like me
Dark looking games like Forbidden Psalm and Morkborg sure scratch an itch
Owing to its unit construction rules, BattleTech always was miniature agnostic. It's not humanly possible for any company to account for all custom 'Mechs and vehicles player could be fielding so proxy models were normal since the day one. Also, it doesn't have huge GW-style model line and it never had one. Ral Partha/Ironwind is not big. Proxying with any model that comes in similar scale and can be fit onto a standard hex base is just how it always worked.
3d printing is a godsend for BattleTech.
I understand people not liking how crunchy are BT rules. I love the tiered rules, but at its very core BattleTech is not a miniature game. It's a hex and counters game that just happends to be playable with 3d terrain on the tabletop and its firmly baked into BT DNA. It's a perfectly understandable reaction from anyone who's into more fast play skirmish games.
Matt Mason does really nice Battletech STL files. Loads of models and variations and all free
my biggest factor is if I can get other people in my area to play! If I went off of gameplay and aesthetic I'd only play age of sigmar, but I play more games of warhammer 40k because of its popularity
Not dumb at all on Battle Tech I think everyone starts there it seems. We played in middle school and they High school. We had the paper cut outs lol but then we found Rogue trader and then 2nd edition 40K. Say what u will but it literally hooked us . We had the only league and had over 32 players at our peak. Made tourney brackets had handicaps and loved. We had audiences for our final four. Even made local news. We still play but only 8 now.
I think a lot left due to it being mainstreamed and Tourney driven Meta. Our original games no one spammed or min max you couldn’t models just weren’t there yet!
Do you think tourney mini games limit themselves in player base? It’s hard to find people who don’t do it like that anymore.
Sometimes, you gotta look at why you dislike stuff. Good vid
We are spoiled for choice lately in terms of excellent miniature skirmish & wargames. The issue is finding anyone willing to take a chance on a non-GW game.
Thankfully, many of the modern game systems are solo-able, which is how I play Frostgrave, Burrows & Badgers, Forbidden Psalm, and The Doomed.
Occasionally I’ll find someone to take me up on playing these competitively but it’s rare and even if they enjoy it, they invariably drift back to GW. It’s frustrating.
Yeah. I live in an area so saturated by GW that you will likely be cussed out for suggesting something else, even if it's like Grimdark Future where people can use their GW figures. I actually had that happen many years ago with Kings of War; I suggested to a group of WHFB players to try it out and was swiftly told to go pound sand (in a less nice way) and stop trying to push my "pet game" on people. For mentioning one time on an FLGS group there was a game like WHFB but more streamlined. It's crazy how indoctrinated many Warhammer players are, and game stores just encourage that behavior by decidg what games are "allowed" there or not (read: what games they stock so you can buy it from them)
But since no game stores stock these games, and in my area, at least the game store is the center of the universe, trying to get anyone to even TRY something that's not made by GW is a Herculean effort, let alone getting people to not look down on you like you're a leper or something for not just playing 40k like everyone else.
@@Nobleshield I’ve had luck bringing these non-GW games to Library board games night. As you said, non-GW indoctrinated gamers are often intrigued and I’ve gotten a few to play through some Frostgrave scenarios with me.
Listening to this while I am working, and at @9:00 he said "The model they made for it is butt ugly" and under my breath I said "Yeah like the goddamn Obliterators". I look up and imagine my surprise! LOL I'm glad I'm not alone in this.
Just hearing the word, “BATTLETECH”, reminds me of this terrible film I seemed to enjoy as a kid called, ROBOT JOX. It was a total box office flop and even as a ten year old I remember noticing the lack of acting finesse. However I still think giant mechs always carry at least some degree of a stylish high-tech cool factor.
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15:01 Dumb for disliking Battletech? It is your choice, sir.
I have to agree with you on the Lore, but despite the Chunky rules, it's one of the few wargames that takes into account speed as a defensive measure...That, and hexes are great