Why I use D12s in Battletech: Alpha Strike (and you shouldn’t be afraid to either).
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2022
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TLDW version - Play a game in a way that feels good to you. 🙂
Things I forget to mention in the video;
- I'd never use D12's for CBT. The bell curve resolution actually compliments the highly restricted movement and condensed and warped range bands that are intrinsic to this edition of the game. 🙂
- Conversely, the D12 system compliments the absolute freedom of movement and facing supplied in Alpha Strike. There are very few Mechs in the game that can't escape at least to Medium Range from Point Blank in a single move, thus imposing a free penalty of a 2pt shift in Target Number. Put yourself obstructed and now that's a 3 point shift. If you're skill 4 (avg) that shifts you significantly farther away in a 2D6 system vs a linear amount in a D12 system. Freedom of movement gives you access to modifiers in a way CBT tends to do far less.
What do you do on a roll of 1? Reroll? Or Crits/headshot :D
@@HotelCharliHill honestly yeah, how would that be dealt with
@@MKmaki6094 Maybe he explains it in the video... TLDW :P
@@HotelCharliHill ok so I looked it up, it's a house rule called Variable Damage rolls.
Here's the thread I found about it online:
Variable Damage 2.0 (Method 1)
I still feel like the current system for this is pretty weak. I was inspired by DFA's thread and their blog for rolling weapons hits and damage locations. Their method for rolling weapon hits is pretty cool. Essentially, 1d6 (yellow die) is a pilot die, every 1d6 after (different colored/size die) represents a weapon system. The pilot die applies to all weapon die after the roll.
For Alpha Strike, using this method for Variable Damage, it would work like this:
Let's say the to-hit was 7.
- Roll pilot die 1d6 (yellow die) results in a 3.
- Roll 1d6 per damage. Let's say the unit does 3 total damage. Roll 3d6 (white die). Results are 5,2,4.
- The unit combines damage die results with the pilot die. This would be 8,5,7. The unit causes 2 damage.
- For 0*, you would just roll 2d6 for the to hit roll, then roll 1d6 to determine if damage is caused (3+ causes damage). You can probably roll 3 die together. 1 yellow, 1 white, and 1 red as a "minimal damage die").
It sounds complicated, but when you roll some dice, you will see it that it is a lot faster using a dice pool like this when there are a lot of units on the board. It's seemingly better than rolling 2d6 to see if you hit and then rolling #d6 and sorting out the ones that hit. Or better than rolling a pool of d12 or 2d6 per point of damage (other house rules others have used). You no longer need to have the "1 damage minimum" rule as well.
With what I propose hits are more in line with the odds of rolling 2d6/bell curve. The lower the to-hit, the more damage you are likely to do, JUST like in Total Warfare. It also speeds up Variable Damage because hits are more concentrated depending on your pilot die result. If you have a high pilot die you increase your odds of scoring multiple hits. Likewise, if your pilot die is low, you have a lower chance of scoring multiple hits. If you read DFA's blog, it explains how the odds work for Total Warfare... some of that translates here and I feel it works better for Alpha Strike because it retains the focus on speed. The current system for variable damage does this poorly. It requires an extra dice roll and you can score a hit on a low target number and whiff all of your damage by rolling under a 4 on all of your d6 (basically, the odds of flipping a coin). The damage results are independent of the bell curve so you get some strange results.
Also, I would propose that when Variable Damage is in play, it applies to all damage except for Charge and DFA attacks. Currently physical attacks are not lumped in with this. This would also mean you would roll a die for damage bonuses (like for rear and melee attacks).
EDIT: Example, dice are rolled together for each example:
TLDR: you roll a bunch if dice equal to the unit's damage and basically deal damage for how much come up that beat the target number
@@HotelCharliHill I think just play it as is. 1 is a possible to-hit target even with 2d6, but 2d6 has 100% chance on 1 *and* 2. With 1d12 you can miss a 2. This slightly offsets the power of increased crit chances for rolling 12s.
“You’re not here so you can’t stop me” was the best way to end the discussion. Laughed my ass off.
I once played in a World War 1 naval battle game that had excruciating rules for both to-hit rules and damage results. It put BattleTech to shame. It relied on a d20 to hit and it would take minutes to just calculate the to-hit rolls. I noticed after a few rounds in that most of the to-hit rolls always had to be in the 10+ range unless ships got into real close-quarters battle. So I suggested we roll the d20 first, then figure out if we needed to spend the time to calculate the to-hit roll based on the result. An immediate 50% improvement in speed, right? Blank stares. "But how will we know what number we have to roll?". I wasn't invited back.
Played in a d12 Western game at GenCon where a "1" was an auto miss and "12" an auto hit. We spent a minute figuring out every target number for a 1 in 6 chance where it didn't matter.
Back in high school (late 80's) we used 4d6 for Battletech. 2 dice were for the "to-hit" roll, and the other two for hit location. We figured with targeting systems and size of mechs they should hit more often and be easier to pinpoint locations. So you could choose how to apply the 4 dice. Sped the game up and made them very exciting.
I like that you included extra player choice.
I like this a lot.
smart!
I really like this. It might make sense to tweak the location table a bit to reward higher numbers more than lower numbers. This would really be a much more engaging way to play. You could really run with this and design Battletech 2.0!
Great idea. Thanks for sharing.
10:18 is when he starts talking about the actual d12's
Thank you! He took forever to get to the point!
I like that long shots are more improbably with 2D6. Making that shot in spite is part of what makes the experience for me. Color matching pairs makes rolling a bunch at once easy enough. However as you say it's your game. As long as you and everyone you're playing with are happy with your house rules do whatever you want.
I tried a few different things, but once I got color matched pairs of 2D6 I never looked back. It’s honestly just as fast and who doesn’t love fistfuls of dice?
My youngest has played Battletech since he was 3. He now knows the actual rules, but I think coming over to my mother's house and seeing 50 mechs on the table and him spouting rules he was making up on the fly was the best day ever! He actually likes Classic Battletech better than Alpha Strike.
Thanks for making this video Ash. We love watching your videos.
Seeing the concept at first... Hard nope
Hearing a fun factor and more unteresting spread...curiousity peaked high
And you explaining it and why you do it. Golden in this day and age
When I first started teaching other people classic BattleTech, I quickly came to the conclusion that the base pilot and gunnery numbers that the game pushes you towards will ruin the game for the vast majority of people you teach it to. They only need to be slightly lower for the gameplay to become sufficiently dynamic without making everything too easy. The side effect of this being that the length of games shorten drastically, and thus end within reasonable timeframes.
There are plenty of elements of the BattleTech ruleset that are too traditional for their own good and have not been reconciled with reality. I find it incredibly weird that a certain subset of players are so hesitant to change rules that aren't fit for purpose when the multitude of supplementary rulebooks for the game are designed such that you can pick and choose rules to suit the play experience you want.
I agree completely. For me teaching my friends or just for a quick fun game we just make everything 3,4 or 2,3 for all skills to just make it go by faster and seem like things are more fair haha
Well put!
Death From Above Wargaming has some house rules on their website that clean things up considerably.
And you're right, it's wild that Catalyst doesn't adjust things slightly to be less "well, I just shotgunned every weapon *around* your mech from 300m away"
@@colbyboucher6391 that’s because they don’t want to alienate their insane grognard player base.
@@paulbrozyna3006 TBH since I wrote that I realized it's more just that "insane grognard player base"'s insistence on not playing in later eras, only playing in 3025 where every mech was hot garbage.
On a d12 crit/pilot die topic. If you require a 1d3 confirmation roll, so 5-6 on a d6, than it becomes 1/36 chance to crit like 2d6.
House rules are very important for the reasons you stated. One of the issues that comes up in discussions are new players who have never played a system asking for the common house rules. I tend to advise playing at least a few games with things as written, then after they know the core system then start to introduce changes. Know the rules before you bend/break them. There's also the issue that everybody else's house rules will be for different reasons so you are introducing a fair bit of madness to someone who doesn't even know the basics yet.
I love it! One of my friends always says "It is FASA, not NASA". :)
You have a convert for using D12s for Alpha Strike. When playing D&D, I totally respect "Rules as Written", but often I will Rule for Fun. Thanks for taking the time to explain the logic behind using D12s.
Ash I agree I finished the video and my blog on Wordpress they’re your miniatures this has been my mantra for years. 100k subs keep up the excellent work my brother!
You know what, I like your explanation of how modifier stacking weight is over-valued compared to the dice chance of 2d6 vs 1d12.
thank you so much for this video. My wife and I change rules for how we play with each other all the time! it makes the game more enjoyable and easier for us to understand in a lot of cases. after I watched it, I restarted it and made her watch it too. very awesome advice!
I have introduced my kids to playing battletech alpha strike, and we use your dice rolling conventions. It has made it lots easier, faster, and even the 6yr old gets it and is having fun.
I played D&D for 10 years before I rolled to hit and damage dice at the same time. It felt amazing. Now I'm straight up rewriting portions of Alpha Strike to teach the game to my kids.
Great video and really interesting! Honestly I might give the D12 system a shot down the line when I get the chance to buy some more D12s, since I love Variable Damage but having only 5 sets of 2D6 personally it can be a bit hard when you start overheating and stuff.
I'd honestly love to see you on the Play On Tabletop channel some day, I feel like you and them have a really similar mindset when it comes to thematic, romantic, and story-driven wargames! I'd LOVE to see you teach them Alpha Strike!
EDIT: On the note of customization too, It's perfectly fine to not only take stuff out you feel is clunky and difficult, but also put in stuff that is complicated if it makes the enjoyment of the game greater.
Every now and then I'll play a game of AS where I use a progressive TMM system. So the further you move in a turn (up to your maximum) the higher your TMM. It's a bit complicated, but with some printed off tokens to put next to your mechs (tokens just say +1, +2, +3, etc.) it's easy to remember. Makes the close game combat very interesting and speed is still king, but if a lighter mech wants to stay in short range of an opponent they might have to take the hit of a lower TMM as they circle each other to get that kill.
My first thought was about the math, but it was quickly replaced with the thought that it would speed things up and not change things dramatically. I agree with the do what you want to do way of thinking.
except that's not true, it does change things dramatically...
Great speech. Love the energy.
I really enjoyed your discussion of why you modified the rules to use a D12 instead of 2 D6. Thank you.
A large part of the character of your channel stems from your boundless enthusiasm for the hobby. Thanks for letting us watch over your shoulder.
BTW: I've been a wargamer for about 45 years and have rewritten rules in most games at some point.
Good for you for making the games your own.
Great video. Most important point to me was the inference that without the use of the D12 there would have been fewer Battletech videos. Right there you got my vote for the D12. Regardless, the statistical explanation was very accessible. It shows using D12 doesn’t break the game and has some advantages if you want a smoother distribution of outcomes. As a former statistician, I approve!
Well spoken. Excellent video. Thank you!
One word for this wonderful video: PREACH! Also, big congrats on the 100k subs! Happy to have been along for the ride thus far, and here's to many more subs in the future! :D
"play the game you want to play" 👍
Between two gamers who agree on a set of rules, whether modified or not, fun is absolutely the point of gaming. If a change leads to the game being fun or interesting, why wouldn't you do it? As a long-time TT gamer who has changed a lot of rules for the sake of fun (or sanity!) I heartily approve.
Loved the probabilities explanation. Linear vs curve is one of those levers you can use to make a change without rewriting a pile of rules.
Tournament games are obviously a different beast, but even then, if all the players consent to a modified rule, why wouldn't that be valid?
One of your best videos!
What a brilliant video. I would love to see more of the weird and wonderful stuff that is born from Ash’s creativity. I miss Realm Quest!
Thank you for the detailed explanation. My purist mind immediately went to „why in all that is holy doesn’t he use 2d6. It’s blasphemy!“
Now I know better. =)
Tuomas Pirinen had such a cool story how he got hired by GW. Loved reading his articles in WD.
The d12s confused me, but I didn't get mad. BTech videos are ones I never miss on your channel.
love the mech warrior back drop. The concept of this game immediately took me back to all those old 90's mech games i used to play.
Mech warrior 2 was awesome
My son and I change rules all the time to make it fit the scenario we want to play (prior to starting the scenario). He's almost 8 and his enjoyment is far more important than sticking to the black and white of the text.
Great gaming words of wisdom!🍻
Love your approach to the hobby and your videos & dedication! Keep being you!
Well, me and my friend have use the D12 system in about 10+ games, I think..they have made the game enjoyable..so Thankyou ash..love the channel..cheers.
I really love your gaming philosophy man. My hobby is improved by watching your hobby. Keep on rolling sir!
I like this video a great deal. One of the Main things that drew me away form other nerd hobbies is how the play in Miniatures games is the play was much closer to how I played as a young child. I did not understand this going in it took me a while to realize it but once I put it together I started to realize that I was much better at playing when I was young and that Idea really Velcro-ed it self on to my mind.
Hell I thought this game was played with a D12 anyways LOL Good for you Ash for explaining that you don't have to play the game the way it is written. We change things in D&D, Warhammer40K or hell even Monopoly! I even changed some rules for Magic the gathering when I played that waaaayyyy back in the day! Awesome video Ash, Sorry for not seeing this months ago when it came out!
I fully agree with your viewpoint and your explanation of why you changed to your system was spot on! I've yet to have the game developer stop by and tell me to stop using house rules or ask for their game back. :D If a few changes to a game makes the experience more enjoyable, go for it! Oh, and ignore the black Suburbans and Blackhawks circling your home....
Wouldn’t normally comment but this is a great video! I agree with your play what’s fun approach and it’s why I enjoy your channel so much. It’s a shame most people need to be told it’s ok to change a game.
Love what your saying and I am glad someone said it. We have always made our own house rules for games as far back as I can remember. The big one for use is in Titanicus we allow different carapace options for a warlord like the 1st and 2nd edition, just half the points and dice rolled; and we allow carapace weapons on arms and vice versa. I have always played for fun, after all thats what a game is about.
I played GURPS by emulating the effects of a 3d6 roll on d20. That was mostly for aesthetical reasons (like the feel and look of icosahedron), but it also had an unexpected advantages of significantly speeding up the game and making success chance way more transparent for players.
I like the bell curve of the 2d6 for classic. It makes the longshots feel like lucky shots it adds a bit of change a more chaos to the dynamics of the game.
May test the d12 for alpha strike still.
I like the bell curve for too-hit, but I long ago upped the base pilot and gunnery skill by one for faster games.
Just remember to add that extra d12 "crit die" to the rolls to get that floating critical feel.
Oh my god this came at the perfect time for me. Im fairly new and was messing around with force comps and i just spent so much time messing with the probability difference between 2d6 and 1d12. Im just gonna use the 12 from now on.
As a wargamer going back to 1974. I found some people could manipulate D6 rolls. Forcing use of dice cups. trays and towers D12 usage is a good alternative to 2D6.
Some good points about house ruling things here. I think people tend to be sticklers for RaW because, among other things, it’s more convenient/easier to stick with things as written in the rule book than it is to experiment with your own changes, especially if you have limited gaming time each week - if you’ve only got say three-four hours to play a game each week, you probably don’t won’t to spend most of it testing ideas to see if they make the experience better or worse for you and your mates (even though ironically it could improve your weekly games in the long run).
Another factor is I think convenience of reference; it’s more convenient to just refer to the rule book everyone has in common than, refer to said book and then cross reference with notebooks of house rules.
There’re more reasons I can’t think of off the top of my head, but ultimately you raise good points; those are reasons why you’re not doing it, not reasons why you shouldn’t do it. Side note, I wonder if there’s any correlation between people falling out of the mindset of adapting/changing the rules as they would do in the days of say Rogue Trader, and the demise of officially backed creativity ala the deodorant tank; could you chart people becoming more bookbound with creators like GW dropping DIY bodging articles from their books? 🤔. Are modern gamers just so used to having everything provided for them that it just doesn’t occur to them that they have the ability to step outside the lines?
I think there will always be two camps in gaming that are diametrically opposed; the romantics and the academics.
Romantics are preoccupied by the philosophy and feeling of the experience, the academics are preoccupied by the outcomes.
It’s the same division of people that care more about the destination, or the journey. It’s not really reconcilable without some meeting in the middle.
Can anyone explain the pilot die that’s rolled?
How does a better or worse pilot die effect the number on the die and how does the number on the die effect the actual shots?
Yeah right, we all know Ash has invested in a D12 mine and he's just drumming up business to raise his share price.
I'm no mathematician, but bell curves getting flattened or not, all I see when I watch Ash playing Alpha Strike is two blokes enjoying the heck out of a game, so there's that.
As a game designer I use 2d6 to approximate normal distribution, that's why they used it in this game as well.
Sorry, last comment. I think this is one of my fav videos of yours. Love it. I have this feeling that xD6 rolls are an artefact of an earlier age, before polyhedral dice were as available as they are now. I hope you make more videos sharing your house rules and their rationale (the only game I play at present is a version of Cyberpunk 2020 that has been so modified in terms of rules and setting that it is basically it's own game). stay future, Ash.
You had me laughing in the first minute.
Then cheering you on for the rest!
@10:20 When the actual explantion begins.
Thanks for sharing, excellent as always, that's an interesting concept and there's some merit in this method I guess. One immediate problem I can see is. It's a personal choice of course, but for me this simplifies the gameplay just too much. Especially when rolling hit location. What I mean is, it makes sense for the centre torso to be easily hit, far more likely than cockpit or arms, since technically it's a large location in the centre of the target, hence it's usually better armoured so it can absorb a likely more frequent damage. Chance of rolling the centre torso with 2D6 is 16.6%, left and right torso about 14%. Hitting the centre torso with 1D12 has the same 8.3% chance as rolling either the leg or cockpit locations. Just my opinion, but 2d6 just work better with the hit location design. I reckon, were 1D12 more common in the 80's we would possibly use a different location rolling system in BT.
As long as you and your opponent agree who cares what the rule book says
I've started playing with D12s with my kids and friends who are getting into the game, the faster flow and easier dice rolls are very popular with everyone, especially when they're used to two D6. Much smoother gameplay, especially for people new to tabletop.
I definitely agree with you about the handful of D12s being better than the pilot dice for the same reasons you give here. But I don't necessarily agree that switching from 2D6 to handful of D12 is better for Alpha Strike or the BattleTech idiom. I feel like the bell curve is built into the way that most dice rolls happen in the game - a target number of 7 or lower is meant to be significantly easier than one of 8 or above, and flattening that curve reduces the utility of units who's lifeblood is making sure that they can't be hit easily. Hovertanks and light, fast mechs live by that +3 or +4 movement modifier and a wolfpack of Pegasus tanks won't be as fearsome against the D12 system. Similarly in full BattleTech the bell curve is built into the location table, with the facing torso being a 7 making it the most likely location to be hit.
This might be me preferring the bell curve as a way for altering probability though, as much as I enjoy Infinity I find the swingy nature of the face to face rolls frustrating sometimes. And I'm an old BattleTech grognard with decades of experience with the game the way it is so that's absolutely going to be a factor in my attitude. The bucket of dice method is a lot more modern and does have solid maths to back it up, just maybe not the right maths for how I play BattleTech? I'd probably sooner accept this system with a ground-up rebuild of the rules, because in your games you still need to go back to 2D6 to resolve crits as that's harder to rework.
All that said, you're right about crits being not a big deal in Alpha Strike because under the default rules units generally go from full armour, to almost breached, to either 1 turn with their structure exposed or just straight to dead. It's a problem that's exacerbated when you have some of the monster Clan Assaults out on the table that can make anything south of 60 tons disappear by looking at them. My group and I have debated using the variable damage rule but haven't had a chance to try it out yet.
For Classic, the bell curve works. Really well. I wouldn't even think of changing it. For Alpha Strike and its abstractions, I think the even damage spread might be a better way to do things. Using a pool of d12's is honestly better than the other variable damage rules presented in Commander's Edition. DFA's system works well too, but it's a system that is slightly better than doing flat damage to a target.
The trick to using a D12 in CBT would be to restrict it to gunnery and piloting rolls. For other things you would still use the standard dice rolls. There would still need to be a few tweaks to deal with things like whether Ultra AC's jam or not, but that's easily dealt with.
What Battletech really needs a rule set somewhere between CBT and AS, where mechs still retain some of their 'crunchy' details, but the overall game play is faster with less detailed bookkeeping.
@@JMcMillen I suppose you could. Hey, for AC's jamming, that's what the 1 is for on the die result!
@@xDanieL.A.F.x Except that would make it a 1 in 12 instead of 1 in 36, so it would happen a lot more often. My thought would be that if you did roll a 1 there would be a 'saving throw' of sorts to help maintain that 1/36 chance. In short, if you roll a 1, roll an additional d12 and on a 1-4 it jams, otherwise it's fine. If something jammed on a 2 or 3, then a d12 of 1 would be the same odds.
As soon as you buy the rules, you can do whatever you want to. It is amazing how many people ask permission to change something that suits their play style. It is a game, you should at the very least enjoy the experience.
it's your hobby Ash. I can understand people who want to see a game played by the rules if it is that they want to see, but as you say it's your hobby way of playing that you record, not a by-the-book tournement. As you explained very clearly with 1d12 every result has 1/12 probability to happen, an equal chance, 2d6 will change the probability curve in a way were extreme results will have a lower prob than result near the average....i understand why they design that like it. critical are rare but fails in really easy shot almost don't happen. Well it's realistic and seems reasonnable....But as wargamer it's fun to not be always reasonnable.. I like your tweak of the rules and as a RPG DM that sometimes change/tweak rules when i don't like them I really appreciate that you explained why you do this modification. Thank you :)
I like the case for altering game rules - the d12 modification breaks the simmy elements of Battletech (3xCrits, distance being less relevant, weapons not missing or hitting together because they share targeting means) but it's fun hearing about other ways people play
Well said dude. Guidelines more than rules is the way I usually roll with most of my hobbies :)
OK, dumb question, and apologies if you explain it in the video and my brain has just fallen asleep (because math) by that point, but how exactly does the Pilot Die work? Is is just one of the To Hit dice (ie. attack of 4, 1 pilot die and 3 others) and counts as one other than the Crit table coming into play if it hits, or is it one for the pilot and then To Hit (Same example, but 1 pilot die and 4 others) and the Crit roll only comes up if the To Hit succeeds? I'm sure it's more simple than I'm making it, but am confused.
Thanks for the overview. I've been watching your AS videos and am painting up some models to play. Really like the idea of the more even spread via d12 and want to give it a go myself
Explaining your math felt like being short-changed
Totally using D12s when I play.
Tried the d12 after watching you and tried it out. Made the game faster and
More fun for us :)
I am testing a modified version of this where we use variable d12 dice for each potential damage and you just need to meet the final "to-hit" number. So if you have 4 damage at long range and need 8 to hit, you roll 4d12: each that rolls 8 or better hits.
I did the 2 d6 per damage, the pilot d6 plus shots, and now I will try this way.
A gamer after my own heart.
I like the message of the video, gotta admit I almost didn't bother to watch it because the title read like "You should make this change to this game like I did and play the way I like!" to which my brain was like "don't tell me how to play!" lol.
EDIT: I think it was the "(and so should you)" part.
I agree, my group does that all the time.
Modified rule for fun FTW! We play modified rules BT:AS too! We drop the field to 3x3, and half model movement if you want to shoot. Can still sprint full speed and not shoot. Also ranges are 3"/12"/21".
Just gave this a try with a buddy over the weekend. Wow! What a difference, this opens up the game and makes it tactical at all ranges. I thought lights would become useless, nope, my Locusts were just as critical as my Awesome and Thunderbolt. Thank you sir for sharing this.
Note to Grognards, of which I am one, this is the Alphastrike you are looking for. I still love and play classic BT with 2D6, but I will only play Alphastrike with D12s from now on.
Stoked you gave it a try and enjoyed it!
Check out the old compendium, it had free movement rules in it which I used during the 90s. Classic style with no mapsheets.
Moving across the map using a tape measure was a blast. Save the last/first inch of your movement for facing change.
What do you the pilot dice for when you use D12s?
We've taken a stab at using this die rolling system and like the game SO much more this way.
Rules as written are just the publisher's opinion.
When I started Alpha Strike with my kids I watched a bunch of your videos and then decided to try it with the d12 rule, and it has always worked really well for us. So thanks for that!
I don't know how true this is, but I read in an article about the design of DnD that this was the same line of reasoning for why Gygax wanted to use polyhedral dice, specifically the d20, so that there was an equal chance of results for checks and to-hit rolls that you don't get rolling d6s.
Thank you for this idea! A question: do you use D12 instead of 2D6 for critical hits as well?
Do you use this in classic? If so, when you roll for location what do you do when you roll a 1 on a d12 (2 is currently faced torso is a crit)? This isn’t me poking holes, this is me being generally curious… also not sure what you mean by “pilot dice”
Also are d12s good for even doing hit location .?
the thing that i truly hate about this is that i was all excited and ready to try out the D6 skill die system. But this just makes way more sense
Wonderful video. I think you should bring out the soapbox more often!
As far as the dice discussion goes... when I play Alpha Strike, I usually just roll dice as a group of pairs for each damage point. After you broke it down, though, I do feel like giving the d12s a chance. Thanks for the info!
I enjoy house rules too.
I have a nice collection of the Clix game and use house rules to play a version of Alpha Strike with them. Take whatever the printed range value on the dial and multiply it by three and play on a 6'x4' table and you have Alpha Strike scale while the simplicity of the Clix dials.
The Clix game is a 3D6 game, where 2D6 of one color are what determines critical hits, so I might do what you are doing with a D12 as my "pilot" die.
We gave the d12s a try. It really worked out good.
Most excellent video Ash! Great talk on a very cool subject, PLAY THE GAME THE WAY IT IS FUN!
I like it.
Honestly, I wish more games used a non-D6 system.
Totally agree. D6 just doesn't allow for granularity because you are either just 1/6 chance for everything or tied to the bell curve of 2d6.
I would say that as long as everyone involved is rolling with the same dice, be it 2d6 or 1d12, it's fine because then any differences in the odds of how they roll are the same for everyone. But if one player is using a d12 and the other is using 2d6, then no, as is shown in the video the results/odds would be different.
I always learnt that when playing games for fun it doesn't matter if you get the rules wrong, as long as your consistent it's fair. As you say as long as both players use D12's then it works. I think D12's make sense when rolling multiple dice, as rolling multiple pairs of D6's is a massive pain.
I exactly like the the difficulty variation for higher numbers
So agree with all you said here! Heck, I would even use d12 for CBT, because CBT in person takes ages even for the most simple fights (nowadays I only play CBT using digital tools like MegaMek or flechs as the amount of rolling for everything is not that fun anymore for me).
The terrain and Mats kind of abstract all the ranges so the 2D6 roll works well to reward how restrictive movement is in CBT. But yeah; why not try it?
pretty sure the point of the 2D6 vs a D12 was to make it weighted towards the 5-9 results as opposed to even across the board. From game design perspective having the rare shots that much harder makes it more fun generally speaking. Pushed it from a random outcome to one more bound by the tactical use of speed and cover (ie playing the game on the table rather than hoping the dice liked you).
The chance of rolling any particular side on a D12 is the same, and the chance of any particular result on 2d6 is a bell curve centered on 7. But your chance of rolling *above* any given Target Number is surprisingly similar. For example, the chance of rolling a 8 *or better* on 2d6 and D12 is identical. And the chances are pretty close for any other TN too. So, it can easily replace Gunnery and crit checkrolls. But the fact that it isn't a curve would be pretty dramatic for *picking* a value, like hit locations in Classic.
Also Battletech is just old enough that d12s weren’t really an option, but yes the game is built around the pyramid curve.
@@cargo_vroom9729 12 is either 1/12 or 1/36. 11+ is either 1/6 or 1/12. Those aren't close.
Those are your long shots OP is talking about. An 8 isn't a long shot.
@@cargo_vroom9729chooses literally one number away from the middle of bell curve lmao
@@SendarSlayer "Close" is subjective. My point was the "X or better" mechanic means the chance-to-hit-TN graphs have the same shape. even though one method produces an intrinsic bell curve and the other doesn't. It was a lot closer than I intuitively thought.
Fantastic video!
If you can alter rules to make them more pleasing to play for you, you absolutely should!
Narrative scenarios and enjoyable games are what I enjoy playing and its great to see you tinkering with rules to make them more fun and bodging whatever you want to make the game more fun to play and I'd love to see more folks do it rather than slavishly following the rules as written.
I'll have to have a bash using D12's for Alphastrike and see how I get on.
I love CBT for crunchy, AS is too lite for me, so I rewrote a basic set of rules to make a speedier compromise, it squishes everything into d6 rolls, turns armor into a saving throw and structure into a hitpoint pool, with a basic location chart used for critical hits. It plays like a OPR/40k/BT hybrid. All damage is roughly halved, structure points are roughly halved, heat is abstracted a bit-- weapons fire in classes with primary weapons fired one at a time and smaller weapons fired together as "banks" of linked weapons. The goal was to speed up play and allow more mechs per side. I added a morale mechanic and a stability mechanic, and chassis and weapons special traits that make weapons more tactical. Ballistic and indirect weapons can be used to rattle an enemy into being pinned or shaken, PPCs can cause static discharge that hards sensors and gunnery, and so on. So when you build lances there is a benefit to making a theme for their use on the battlefield. It's been pretty fun and quick in playtesting
Does any other Lance Commanders House leaders do this?
Sorry I must have missed it... what do you do when you roll a 1?
As 2d6 is 2-12?
Guess you can’t hit with 1
I 100% agree with your philosophy. At the end of the day, as long as you’re playing, you’re doing it right. That said…
Personally I’ve looked at the math quite a bit and explored several options. The pilot die is an interesting compromise between the all in damage and the roll per damage.
I looked at making modified D12’s that more closely match 2D6 results. I even designed and printed up a 36 card deck that you can quickly draw from. I still use it for critical hits because I put the crit results on the cards.
At the end of the day however, I have a bunch of different color 2D6 pairs and we roll for each point of damage. I came to the conclusion that I was trying to solve a problem that didn’t exist. It’s no faster to roll D12s or flip cards, and all the modifiers and tables are balanced around 2D6
Cool video, I'll give it a try.
Of subject, have you ever tried Battleforce or played the Succession War board game? The old Battleforce was a fun system and it is cool to command an entire company of mechs at once :), never had Succession wars but if you like the background of battletech you may like this one.
I've recently decided to try using a D12 for to-hit rolls and PSRs in both Classic and my modified version of Alpha Strike for the linear probability. We play with Electronics, Tactics, and Leadership skills added to Gunnery and Piloting, so having each point of change in target number equate to the same change in chance of success made it much easier to balance the things yo can do with the extra skills.
Plus, by my estimation, making target numbers above 8 easier and below 8 harder should let me reduce the BV impact of high skill pilots, since they're more likely to have the lower target numbers. That really helps if one of my players is fielding high-skill Clanners.
I skipped the two D6 rule for shooting but I instead converted it like if a Mech attack of three pips I Roll three D6 for the PIP as my attack move i used to skill of the pilot like a regular will be four or higher for hits Modifier still exist like if there blocking terrain or jumping so we just use it as optional so there’s nothing wrong with that.