Passler Model 1887 Ring Trigger Pistol - Now With Mannlicher Clips!
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Franz Passler and Ferdinand Seidl formed a partnership to make manually-operated pistols in Austria in the late 1880s, but the arrangement did not last. Their design was initially patented by Passler in Austria, and then jointly by both men in Germany. It is a rotating barrel design similar in function to the 1887 pattern Schulhof, but with a simplified internal design that makes it more durable and easier to manufacture. They also used a different magazine system, choosing a 5-round Mannlicher type clip to feed the pistol. Only about 100 pistols were made under both Passler and Passler & Seidl, and they all show minor variations - there was no commercial success achieved with the model.
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*Late 19th Century handgun owners* :"But does it accept Mannlicher clips?"
"The safety doesn't work, but it's supposed to!" is easily the funniest thing I've heard all day.
Why can't we have modern guns look this aesthetically pleasing? If that thing looked any more dapper it would steal all our girls and guys.
I really do want more functional replicas of archaic firearms.
Same with single action revolvers
Well, for starters, having the magazine in the grip is a very nice feature in terms of ergonomics and production costs, so that eliminates the nice round grips these old guns have. And the rest is simply cost, a brick is easier to machine and therefore costs less, and both companies and consumers like paying less money.
@@DAKOTA56777 so if I wanted to go into Gun reproduction business, it is for the best I make it a compliment to my main gun manufacturing?
@@drivanradosivic1357 There are companies that are dedicated to reproductions, Uberti for example, it's doable, but just a _much_ smaller market. If you only ever intend to have a small business and not a massive commerical empire, then it's fine to just do reproductions only.
Star Wars props department: Write that down! Write that down!!
I was thinking the EXACT same thing!
Mandalorian traded it in. He said Moff Gideon gave it to him as birthday gift. I have my doubts though.
1:38 - Friendship ended with Seidl, now Wesson is my best friend.
The mechanism here is very clearly a miniature bolt action rifle.
I was thinking "huh, a bolt action pistol"
It’s kind of a cross between a lever action and a straight pull
He basically said then when he said it was like the “Volcanic” because the volcanic was the basis for lever action rifles.
@@adammanning8882 Which is amazing, since the first straight pull had only come out a couple of years before. This was a very cutting edge pistol.
@@thetruthexperiment He meant that it was also a manual repeater, that's about as much as they have in common. Even their "levers" have mechanical differences.
"Gussstahl" is more accurately translated as "cast steel." During the period when this piece was produced, the term "Gusststahl" referred to a specific type of production and forming method of steel which was introduced around 1740. As of 1950, all steel is essentially cast which has the term in German somewhat superfluous. There is also the term "Stahlguss" which originally referred to steel items which were cast into their final shape. Today, the meaning of "Stahlguss" has been expanded to refer to steel types that lend themselves towards being cast into their final shapes.
Greetings from Germany
Nope. Gusstahl, cast steel, made Alfred Krupp's fortune, and it was the first method for mass production of steel, and, incidentally, to an artillery revolution that saw the Second French Empire trounced at Sedan.
@@TheSrSunday well, I incorrectly translated the term cast steel. However, my main point still applies. Your statement is also true. As language evolves, so does technical terminology. After all, nothing exists in a vacuum
"Guss-Stahl" translates to "cast steel".
I woke up today and didn’t see a new Forgotten Weapons video and life was bad.
All better now.
This is tremendously ingenious, and better than a DA revolver: much faster to reload and no cylinder gap to leak hot gas. Too bad it came a little too late to the market when self-loading pistols were already underway.
Indeed! Who knows what it would have been like if they made these pistols even two decades prior
@@sparky6855
Like a slap in Rollin White's face.
@@lucianene7741 Hah! I guess it is, isn’t it?
@@lucianene7741 he got his face slapped quite badly by Smith and wesson
@@quentintin1 Very well put and I agree completely
I want a modern version of these types of guns, but with a threaded barrel.
One dislike is from Seidl.
Ghost in the machine
Can’t get over how his name was ground off the one pistol like a tree after a childhood break-up
9 more from his butthurt decedents.
fun fact: A Seidl is 0,3l glas of Bier.
@@sparky6855 chad move
I just realized it is like a Berretta only the other way around.
You have a single action trigger pull on your first shot and a double action trigger an all subsequent rounds.
Although not successful, this gun looks like it had significant use judging by the repair to the crack seen at 6:38. However, I suppose this could be where all of them cracked!
It looks fairly sturdy, so I suspect it was just used for a long time. I doubt it was cheap, so the owner probably kept it for years.
Slight pedanticism… "Guss-Stahl" means *cast* steel. According to Wikipedia, this can also refer to a multi-stage process where steel is first cast into an intermediate shape and then forged and milled to receive its final shape and internal structure.
(EDIT: Guss is a noun related to the verb "gießen" meaning to cast or to pour.)
I wanted to post exactly the same thing. Ian isn't wrong just simplifying. Also, your name makes that comment brilliant.^^
Was going to say the same. Many English guns were similarly marked "cast steel", in the context of the time it's marketing speak for "better steel than the crap your grandpa's gun was made of". Cast steel was far more homogeneous and dependable than the blister steel that was common earlier.
@Modern Zombie as opposed to earlier blister steel, which was not cast as one homogeneous block. Making good steel was not an easy thing before Bessemer.
Although Mark Felton should be voice over for the History Channel, Ian should do the firearms edition.
Drachinifel. He only does naval history, but he has the most soothing voice on youtube
Don’t forget French history
I alternate with the History Guy.
I like his enthusiam.
Does this history channel do actual history anymore? Last I checked it was all jesus, bigfoot and aliens.
The rotating bolt function of the lever deserved a mention.
He covered this more in-depth in a previous video.
No mention of the " lock and stitch " repair, I think that would have been a cool point to show.
It manages to be both crude and elegant. Thinner than a revolver as well. I kinda like it.
Before anyone asks:
No, Passler doesn't actually mean anything, especially nothing school yard related in German.
yeah, that was kind of unfortunate coincidence
Passler is the Hitler to Pasolini’s Mussolini
A note, the clip was Mannlicher in function but covered the entire side of the cartridge, leaving only the front, top, and bottom open. It's a bit more secure than you'd think
fact that these things work like revolvers is probably partially why they didn't catch on that much, revolvers were cheap (by this point) and offered basically the same performance
this ones way thinner
and loads more capacity faster
but those have only been especially
appealing in recent decades
@@bumpercoach Not a great haiku, but then I'm not a great judge so
LOL@@Sun-ut9gr
My way was long ago
called Chiu-ku by
great (Crossfit and
Broken Skull) champ
Tommy Hackenbruck
Ian: “This gun is around 140 years old.”
Also Ian: “Spoiler but non of these worked particularly well.”
Not something you would personally want to test.
@@bigblue6917 Speak for yourself, limp wrist! 💥
Sold particularly well.
He actully says “none of the manually operated pistols were particularly successful” not that they didn’t work, just that no one really bought them over the current revolvers, and they became completely outclassed when self loaders like the 1900 and 1911 rocked up.
I imagine that that gun is actually quite pleasant to shoot in 32, but that’s pure conjecture
He said they didn't do well commercially, not that they didn't work well. They worked fine, but didn't offer anything over a revolver and costed a lot more at the same time.
THANK YOU for doing this series on manually operated repeating pistols. This sort of content is why I support you on patreon. Keep up the good work, you are the champion of the collector and enthusiast.
There’s something just aesthetically pleasing about seeing these amazingly complicated almost clockwork old guns functioning.
Бро, где ты находишь такие шикарные вещи? Это же мой любимый тип пистолетов. Обожаю твои видео, ты всегда умеешь порадовать, а показываешь настолько информативно, что можно смотреть без звука. Всё равно я не знаю английский. Ты отличный оружейник! Успехов тебе и вдохновения.
Ian your earlier comments re museums apply so well with this type of item. In a display case while it can be seen, inspecting how it works really isn't something the public can do. Museums can't afford the space to have even an exploded diagram of the internals. I'm a museum nut I love the places. Forgotten Weapons the living museum of (mostly) small arms.
Really cool pistol too, never heard of anything quite like it before, exactly why your vids are so good.
Now with Mannlicher clips !
"Unfortunately I don't have a clip fort it."
I feel betrayed.
Just love these guns ... so pretty!! (Really hope there'll be more of these videos in the near future)
Thanks Ian!!
keep the manually operated repeating pistols coming this shit is my favorite
I love this mechanism. I wish there was a reproduction in a modern caliber.
Yup. In .380
Yes. In .32 H&R. ; )
I did not know I needed an open bolt manually operated lever action pistol firing from Männlicher clips until now
I just noticed Passler had a pissed oppitunity to allow the enblock clip of the pistol to automatically eject, quite fascinating
I love the external follower lever.
Very impressed by the craftsmanship of the older guns.Im impressed by the inventiveness of those who created a new type of pistol that wasn't invented yet.
Van Helsing called, he wants his stuff back
After watching all these videos I really want one of these guns, they're so innovative
These are very neat pistols
yes
this could be a starwars gun with minimal tweaks
I don't see the need to add anything except second gun.
@@TheArklyte And about 4 scopes
Just add one of those muzzle brake boosters and you're done
Honestly, i think it feels more like something from Firefly.
@@thehighwayman8776 Jubal Early's pistol
God dang, a grand thumb and a gun Jesus video in one morning before work. My kinda morning. Making a second pot of coffee!
Thank you , Ian .
Okay, I need to see one of these things fired and reloaded. They're like alien gun design.
Man that is one slick looking gun.
In modern usage, i.e. late 19th century onwards, when a gunsmith or armourer refers to cast steel, he/she is referring to crucible steel, as used for items like firing pins.
So I mean... Every other country is making guns saying "Hey! Look at my pretty gun!" Meanwhile, in Austria, a bunch of gun designers unanimously say "Halten Sie mein Bier." and get to work making amazing little gadgets I didn't even know existed. I want all of these ring trigger art pieces.
Interesting nice pistol. It looks elegant and seems very simple to use.
WOW. Really nice 19th century sidearm.
I love seeing designs that didn't make it to major production; they're so mechanically interesting.
Great video. Sure beats muzzle loading I'm sure. Thank you
For someone who is in to DieselPunk it would be a classic and very stylish gun to rebuild using .380.
@Modern Zombie Pocked Henry! But it must have some very fancy style, looking classy. A tool for a distinguish Austrian 007 gentleman agent, in about 1869. If he chose to use it, without and silencer it would work, with a click, as a blowback pistol. But when convenient, it will be very quit and stealthy. Mind; The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, meet Kingsman, but even earlier. Snobby and decay.
Seems like someone repaired/welded the left side of the gun where the clip goes. You can clearly observe a crack at the base where the clip goes then right up from it three very small circles. (6:37) Its a rather good repair job mostly matched to the rest of the metal. (And probably the reason its polished rather than covered in a patina more apropos for the gun's age.)
Ah yes, gun.
You said it, man. What a gun this one is
and if that don't work, use more gun.
Ah yes, comment.
But do you do gun everyday?
@@fetidcreeper Ah yes, reply.
I find the bolt interesting. The rotating bolt looks like a very early precursor to a modern assault rifle bolt. Many differences of course but the beginnings of something.
Honestly these ancient designs are way cooler to see,
Always fascinating to note how the various parts of the pistol have been polished up to such a sheen. We take it all for granted today with the parts honed to a very tight clearance,but in those days the finishing must have been quite a considerable addition of construction time. Those chaps must have lain awake at night thinking about their designs,trying to improve every part. We owe them a great debt.
I love it, beautiful and functionally amazing
These really are funky little pistols
Ian y up so early? Couldn't wait to show us this gun.
The ring trigger pistols are awesome. Very steampunk.
I've seen that clip spring somewhere before
*hears distant german laughing
That a pretty piece of history!
That has got to be one of the coolest looking guns ever
Damn...I love this old designs...people back then had so much imagination🤩
An interesting concept!
There probably isn't a real market for repro of this era of funky guns, but it sure would be cool if they do.
You got to admire the craftmanship, for a 140 year old gun its in a good condition
Glorious.
Holy crap! I though I'd only ever see these in that one Motz & Schuy book
That's a slick looking gun
That is pretty cool looking
I want to film an action-packed western where all the characters use weird crap like this instead of everybody just having SAAs
I would love to see that
Forgotten Cowboys
so alternate history things? Very good idea. Alternate history video games with this sort of guns in them would be good. Hunt Showdown is one of them.
@@drivanradosivic1357 Not necessarily, since these are all obviously existing pieces of history - just a desire to show atypical examples!
@@DreamwalkerFilms ah, as in it doesn't have to go Steampunk or Dieselpunk Weird West, but more of a choice B sort of way?
I do agree that interesting guns like these would be quite intriguing to have in media and real life.
You can tell Ian is pleased with a video when exclamation point is in title lol
1800s made the most clever guns. the machining is incredible for it time.
Loading under the follower is an interesting idea, probably the first time I've seen something like that. I get the feeling that it would be fun to try shooting something like this, but it would also become abundantly clear why it was a developmental dead end. If it ever returns it'll be as a legal work around, in which case the action and magazine could both be necessary, but most people would still probably choose a revolver instead, just like 140 years ago.
something something open bolt too easy to convert to full auto /s
So cool! I want one in .22lr for plinking!
Clearly a precursor to the modern mag-fed automatic pistol. Brilliant design that is radically different than anything before its time... and it worked!
I am so incredibly amazed there are 18 people who have disliked this video.
I mean, it's a channel about forgotten weapons, and this is for all intents and purposes exactly just that - a forgotten weapon. What did you expect when you clicked on the video that you didn't get from it?
So maybe it's bots downvoting anything gun-related? Well, the laughs on them as a negative interaction counts the same as a positive one from an algorithm perspective. It of course helps YT not recommend more similar videos, but that's not really an issue for a hate bot, is it?
A very neat design
If only it had a magazine instead of a clip, this would be a really cool gun. As it stands, this external spring and widely exposed clip is just asking for trouble.
I'm sad we probably wont see Iain shooting a backup gun match with one of these. I wonder how that funky DA trigger pull would work.
This is so cool!
Please cover the mataba auto revolver! It's such a cool design I wish I knew more about.
Great Vid !
This gun would look cool if re-interpreted to a Star Wars blaster
I wonder if Ian ever heard about the Karl Pfund revolvers from 1900s Germany. I saw several Ads for the in Imperial age german magazines both for "self defense" and target shooting revolvers which looked quite weird. But google only returned scans of the same ads but nothing on the weapons themselves.
Gussstahl, actually means cast steel, the Guss part is from Giessen, to pour, so, poured steel.
Guss Stahl = cast steel as opposed to forged steel.
Looking forward to seeing how the prop designers for the Mandalorian use this one in the new season. After they used the 1894 Bergmann as Mando's sidearm, you know they have to be subscribers here!
If you could get a clip or if some nice smith could make one for you, I would love to see a film were you bring this gun to the range and try it out!
Wicked neat gun!
I been watching this channel for a few years now. When you look at firearms from the early to late 19 Century
there are so many interesting mechanical designs (a lot of precursor's for what we have today) it almost makes modern firearms look cold and boring😁
Now that's a blaster.
It looks like this sort of weapon could easily have been converted to a straight blow-back semi-automatic pistol.
This would be a great system for an integrally suppressed pistol like the Welrod.
No way to mention it without seeming at least a little dickish, but Ian's pronunciation of niche and en bloc really rustles my jimmies.
Is that an annoying type of rustle, or an erotic type of rustle?
@Modern Zombie Lmao I don’t know where you pulled that out of.
@@AkiSan0 Anglo-Saxon (or anglo-saxonian?) is a bit of a weird way to refer to modern British pronunciation, since this has nothing to do with either the Anglo-Saxon language (anymore than US English does) nor the Anglo-Saxon identity (which exists in the US at least as much as in Britain).
I'm happy for Ian to use whichever pronunciations he prefers; though I have to admit I find hearing it pronounced 'nitch' somewhat amusing (though I did check and see it is not that unusual). There's another video where he uses both pronunciations.
It's like all these Austrian gun designers were searching for something beyond a revolver, just as a new challenge. With black powder, these handguns were obviously more delicate than a revolver, while offering no real advantage, aside from higher cost. When designers saw what smokeless powder could do, hundreds of lightbulbs lit up over their heads at the same time. Once designs were tried out, these "lever action" handguns could tap some of the energy of the fired round to reduce manual work, they had a path that would lead, fairly rapidly, to flat-sided, compact automatics that would eventually provide an alternative to military revolvers.
Seeing as how even to this day a pretty large group of people continue to prefer revolvers over even the modern semiautomatic pistols, it kind of makes sense how this style of gun never caught on, which is a damn shame cause these things look awesome.
those austrian self loading handguns are very interesting and beautyful !
honestly would love to see ian design his own firearm (pre 1930 if i had to guess), whether on paper or functioning im sure he would have a pretty cool concept nonetheless. even as a gimmick it would still be entertaining/interesting.
"Hello, it is I, the great Elbonian designer Mc'Ian T'Collum!"
Doesn't the What Would Stoner Do count?
2:07
>The barrel is marked "Guss-stahl", or "steel"
Doesn't "guss-stahl" mean specifically "cast steel" in German?