Street Epistemology: Katie | A Change of Plans
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
Recorded: 17 October 2016
Released: 20 October 2016
Summary: Katie has been questioning her God belief lately, so we work together to see her reasons for holding the belief can be tested in some way.
Twitter: / magnabosco (follow me)
TH-cam: / magnabosco210 (tons of Playlists)
Facebook: / magnabosco210 (like my page)
Website: anthonymagnabo... (contact me, appearances)
SE Resources: tinyurl.com/ab...
SE Community: tinyurl.com/ab...
SE Discord Server: / discord
Related Talks:
tinyurl.com/PL-...
Audio Only: / ep-063-katie-a-change-...
Video blur provided by Reid Nicewonder @CordialCurious
Note: A great organization for doubting believers (and for those at all stages of belief) that I highly recommend is Recovering from Religion, which offers a text-based chat and phone line where you can talk to a trained agent who will respectfully listen and provide resources: www.recoveringf...
** Add foreign language captions w/TH-cam's community contributions tools **
Mistakes: Please let me know if you spot any.
Recorded w/Go-Pro. Edited w/PowerDirector.
The views addressed here are mine and mine alone, and are not necessarily shared by members of my family and friends.
#StreetEpistemology #Magnabosco #Questioning #DoubtingGod #DoesGodExist #RecoveringFromReligion #ReligiousTraumaSyndrome #AnthonyMagnabosco
I don't feel you were trying to convert her to Atheism. I think you were offering help. She is clearly on the path to becoming more honest to herself. This is a tough path. Wether it be regarding religion or not. To discover that happiness can be found in yourself without the need for false beliefs, is more satisfying and liberating than the path is tough however. We all hang onto what we have at our disposal. Be it to our own detriment or not. It actually doesn't matter to me if she keeps believing in a God or not. There is a more holistic self liberation from false beliefs taking place here that is overall more important.
Yeah, regarding your comments at the end: I saw it as offering information that could be helpful to her, if and when she explored a path towards atheism. She expressed doubts, and you offered resources for doubters. Whether or not she moves/moved towards atheism, I hope she found emotional support in ways that were meaningful for her.
Katie, if you see this, I hope you have support. And to the extent that I can offer it, as some stranger from the Internet, you hereby have some from me.
@@DavidLindes The viewers who think the push towards atheism is a thing don't understand the ENTIRE point of these videos...
Where do you get your trust from, belief from, how do you know its true and what methods do you use to determine the truth.
The people can research atheism and determine using their methods of TRUTH FINDING and come to their own conclusion...but the biggest takeaway is that most religious people don't have the option of free thinking as they are raised...the belief it forced upon them in their cultures.
@@StewsReplay If I'm not mistaken, Anthony learned this method from "A Manual For Creating Atheists". I think atheism is a probable result of free thinking. I would guess Anthony believes atheism is a logical extension of truth seeking. Perhaps he thinks promoting truth is essentially promoting atheism. It's not unreasonable to think promoting atheism is a motivating factor here.
He is not trying to convert anyone to atheism.. NOTE: Atheism is not something you can convert to. He is just pointing out the flaws in peoples (reason for) belief and let them get there on their own. That's way more powerful than telling someone they are wrong.
Anthony Magnabosco, when she started to get despondent about the possibility of life without faith, it may have been a good time to pivot to ways of dealing with that. “Have you ever wished you could _choose your own purpose? Can you imagine what that would be like? If you were to learn that this was the only life you had, would your life really seem less significant, or would it actually become more significant? Do you engage in any activities that _don’t offer Infinite Reward? How is this different from those situations? 🤔”
Believe it or not, I survived flipping my car at 65mph and survived with only a tiny head scratch. For what it's worth, I didn't think it was god. It was the seatbelt that saved my life.
Dan Simpson when she was giving that example I pictured a test dummy in the driver's seat, manufacturers design these vehicles to help the occupant survive what would seem impossible. It's a weak argument for faith.
Yep - I was in a serious car accident about 2 years ago, life-flighted to the hospital. If I didn't have my seat belt on I'd be dead I'm sure, and the doctors and nurses kept me alive because of their very hard earned knowledge - thank you education system! I never once mentioned prayer or god throughout the whole ordeal, someone even got rather offended when I thanked the doctors and not god on Facebook. It was funny.
Dan Simpson probably also where you flipped your car. maybe you flipped your car in an open road but if you had flipped your car in the city or a wooded area of on a cliff, regardless of seat belt orrrrr if you had a bomb in your car and the car flipped, the possibilities are endless!
Dan, you can't know that it is not Loki that caused your car to flip.
kit p ~ I understand you completely, I am not going to drive cars anymore because it could have a bomb! That was an eye opener!
I remembered, I suffered, I cried.
Katie, If you read this I want you to know that you are not alone.
I remembered how painful it was for me too.
It is not an easy process for those who were raised religious and it gets worse as we age.
I hope you soon find the peace that your courageous heart deserves and the wisdom to cherish those facing the same struggle.
Good folks here too!
^ this.
What a wonderful, kind response! I too relate to Katie, but I'm 58 years old and I feel I've been lied to all my life. Katie is an honest person, I have a feeling this was the first step to a more rational life.
Beautifully said.
OK, so this video actually made me mad. Mad that religion has so hijacked people's sensibilities that they are emotionally bound to a false sense of meaning and self-worth. This poor girl is struggling with valid questions and her religious indoctrination is robbing her of her ability to dispassionately assess the reality of the world. That being said, Anthony did about as well as he could, given that she was, at various times, defensive, inquisitive, and just venting her emotions. I also like how Anthony has been doing a 1 or 2 minute quick summary at the end of the videos. I think those help in giving us his thought process and the reason for whatever strategy he utilized during the talk. Keep up the great work, Anthony!
CTPaul 12 Thanks, brother. Well said.
it's totally fear based. you can hear it in her voice as the convo unfolded. I actually think she is on the brink of giving it up, she just has a hard time w/ the 'unknown' aspect of what happens next. as a former believer, it struck me real hard that a LARGE portion of my life was dedicated to this... and after enough time I felt foolish.
a lot of people believe its as easy as giving it up and that's that.... and its not that easy. there's a lot to consider: your family, your friends, your job, your reputation, etc... this is probably something that keeps most people from coming out as agnostic or atheist.
there's also the fear element that once you die the party is over. the likely reality that once you're dead - you're dead. there is no after party. there is no do-over. that is also BIG part of the fear.
You're totally right Jeff, my atheism was arrived at relatively gently by comparison. I was begging god to fix a lot of broken things in my life (I'm really smart, but washed out of school). Figured it couldn't hurt. Later on, I figured if I didn't believe in god it was a safe belief because I didn't think a good god would damn a good person to hell. That was the "safe" bet, because even if I was wrong, god wasn't going to be a dick and send me to hell.
It was a gradual thing, but I had less to lose than you did. I also was connected to a relatively moderate church (they had a lesbian as guest minister for a fixed 2 year term, and many didn't want her to go). I...did eventually give up on believing in an afterlife, but that came around a decade later. But again, relatively easy.
Thanks for the perspective, I think you're dead on. She's really questioning things and it makes her scared (and I'm currently dealing with anxiety issues, so I know what fear sounds like). That also explains the tears. I'd probably be on the verge of crying in her place (I've felt that way more than once in my life).
Beautifully said, I completely agree!
I’m always interested in how often the ‘complexity’ thing Is brought up. It seems to me that one of the key elements that serves to fox people here is their seeming inability to grasp the sheer lifetime of our planet, that’s assuming they even buy the actual figures of course! As a species we are SO bounded by our own personally experienced understandings of time and notions of design that our default position almost has to be one of claiming a designer. However, if people actually tried to get their heads around just what could have happened in those 3.8 BILLION years then I think views might change. In this particular case that’s a whole mess of time for eyes to evolve.
Is it just me or are the conversations in the comments on Anthony's videos like 10x more civil than other videos?
because his videos are so civil, christians can find a lot to attac with other youtubers like, Cult of dust, armored skeptic or even Jaclyn glenn. Anthony is like the Care bear of atheism.
Jack Barman indeed , 'Tis True
@Stevo Devo It tok a sec for me to get what you were saying with the 9.76325, but thumbs up. :)
@Stevo Devo It tok a sec for me to get what you were saying with the 9.76325, but thumbs up. :)
The medium is the message.
Katie....I cried with you. I was also so scared. Thank you for being so honest. I'm most confident I'm not alone in sending hugs. Good folks here. :)
Terry McKown Thanks, Terry. Perhaps one day Katie will read your words.
You're not alone..
I know, Katie, you want to remain anonymous given your wish for you to be blurred, and I'm almost certain you had searched for this channel and even looked for your video.
I wish you all the best, and I'm glad you survived the accident.
Imma say stuff most atheists will disagree with me here.
I don't care if you become agnostic/atheist or remain Christian, amd I know you're reading in silence.
Despite the touchy subject of religion between theists and atheists, you behaved in unbelievably respectful way, and I can totally understand your impulsive reaction towards the writing in negative comments.
I don't understand why humans eho respect each other can't love each other simply because they believe stuff you believe (and suppose you know) are wrong. My life is too short to not love people who respect me.
I don't care if you remain Christian, and can't care less of atheists who think I'm wrong about this.
You will disagree with me if I say (I don't care if science and shesr statistics or god saved your life then). And I don't care if you think who or what is behind that is the same cause I think. I don't care if we disagree about what's or who's behind (1). What I care about is you're here today, and I'm unbelievably glad the lovely person you are is still alive today.
I really didn't care about epistemology here. I came for philosophy, but then as soon as I heard of the accident, I put myself in Anthony's shoes and thought (okay, discussing the god issue and whether it's justified is so personal to you, and I don't want you to get hurt or feel uncomfortable discussing it. If you're emotionally together, it can be uncomfortable and I'm gonna be fine continuing. But if you're getting emotional (in the respectful way, not derogatory sense), I'll stop it. I can't discuss any god or paranormal belief with you at all, let's try something else. Let's say social, political. And trust me, pure abstract problems and situations, like (Imagine you are in a date with someone, and they tell you they're in a hurry and can't stay for long. Can we infer if he's genuine and it's out of their control, or just pretending to finish as soon as possible?)
And after that, I lost all interest in epistemology, and all I was concerned about was just (she looks in pain, and doesn't seem to be manipulative proven by her conversation before. I can't look at this, let's shut the god conversation down).
such a great interview. I think you should have given her more info actually.
katie was very brave and honest. she should be proud of herself.
Frank Douglas Hey, Frank. I tried to find the right balance, and she has a way to contact me. I've also added links to RFR on the video and in the description field for her or others who need a non-judgmental person to just listen. Might be time to update the graphics again to reflect the new location, eh?
Anthony Magnabosco sounds good. shoot me an email with images/info.
She hit the nail on the head: It was fed to her as a child. I whole-heartedly believe that is THE primary reason religion persists. We've got to break this cycle.
I realize Katie will never read this. But if she ever does, I hope she'll consider the following points.
@ 7:18 - Argh. I'm so sick of hearing that. So damn sick of it. There is no "should have died", yet you hear that time and time again. Just because something can possibly kill someone does NOT mean that if they experience it they "should have died". No Katie, you should _not_ have died. That's so ridiculously off the mark. Not every bad car crash is fatal.
@ 12:23 - I was so happy to hear her _not_ go the route of "you can't prove the air exists", which theists so often try to say. But she correctly recognized that you can and that air is "proven" all the time. But then she immediately jumped the shark and when with the "proof of god all around us" argument, which is completely and utterly fallacious.
@ 17:20 Meaning? There is no intrinsic "meaning" of life, Katie. You give your own life meaning by the things you take interest in and the things you do. To all theists: please don't feel that your life has no meaning if you lose you belief in god. Your life does have meaning; to you and to those lives that have been touched by yours. It's a freeing realization that the "meaning" and "purpose" of your life isn't dictated from on high. No one tells you the value you have place on your own life. YOU have the freedom to do that for yourself. Your life means -to you- what you _want_ it to mean! That's a wonderful thing to be embraced, not feared. The value of your life isn't contingent on the opinion of someone or something else.
And "What's the point?" The point is that we get the live! The one and only life you know you'll get is extremely precious. Don't waste it in fear of an unknowable notion of a god. There is no reason to think that we will get to experience anything after we die. Your life is the most valuable thing you will ever have. The point of life is life itself. It's the wonderful experience of being alive. When you live to serve an imaginary deity, the implicit point is to live for your death. But no: LIVE FOR LIFE!
Wood 'n' Stuff w/ Steve French Well said on most of those points. If I wasn't so emotionally paralyzed at the time, I would have addressed some of those other concepts. And you never know--Katie may one day stumble across our video and these comments.
"It's the wonderful experience of being alive."
...Which is rendered invalid when you die. If you cease to exist after death, then you'll have no memory of anything.
At that point, memories are all you are, and once you're forgotten (which will happen eventually), for all intents and purposes, you never happened. At that point anything else certainly won't mean anything to you, because _you_ won't 'be'.
So yes, it is objectively meaningless. Sorry, but that's the way it is; wish it wasn't, but it is.
Maybe we'll learn more about it in the future, and can do something about that, but until then... yeah.
@Bloodwyrm Wildheart
For the universe one individual life is ultimately meaningless. But here on Earth a life can have meaning for the individual and everyone they come in contact with. For the rare few who make life-altering discoveries they can add meaning to all of humanity for as long as it exists.
So, no, the wonderful experience of being alive is not rendered invalid when you die. It simply ceases to be of importance anymore. The fact that it was at one time valid means that it can never be totally invalid.
It doesn't seem to me that "temporary meaning" equates to "no meaning."
Well that was a total roller coaster! What's interesting to me is how she seems to be genuinely interested in questioning but instead of concluding that there's not an answer or that the answer is "nothing" she is looking for whatever fits the gap, like conspiracy and Freemason shenanigans. I guess that's human nature though, something difficult to unlearn. Great talk though, Katie should be proud to be so open like that with a stranger and you should be proud for providing a space where people feel comfortable enough to do so.
TheCraigrobson
"You can't test everything in science either"
Yes, you literally can. That is the single most important thing about science.
How do you know though that science is true? Can you test that? With what, science? A bit circular, right? Meta science perhaps? But how do you test that is right? And the argument that it works? You can still make things work with science that we know now isn't true, like Newtonian mechanics etc. not to mention that it's similar to what religious people say when cornered, I don't know if it's true, but it makes feel better. Is truth what are we interested in really or do we just pretend to be?
@@FaanaMusic The thing about science is that science does not make proclamations of truth.
What science does is work off of probability to come up with the best possible TENTATIVE explanations of natural phenomena, which is then subject to revision when new and better data comes along.
Science is constantly checking and improving itself, and the only thing that has EVER corrected science is MORE science.
A thing being circular is not a necessarily a bad thing. Circular REASONING is, but that's not what science is about.
Contrast this with religion, which has proclamations of truth en masse, and is never EVER wiling to critically examine their claims.
@@GuitarLoverX I agree with you that what you describe is what science should be and I'd be more than happy to see that. Unfortunately, it's being used a philosophy and tends to be connected to materialistic and atheistic world view (not always of course, this is just a problem, I'm seeing). Pure form of science is indeed, what you mentioned, but the problem is, that those metaphysical believes are still largely there, but unconsciously.
You are mentioning 'natural phenomena'. What do you mean by that? Do you draw the line between natural and supernatural? And if so, what is it based on?
@@FaanaMusic Supernatural is simply a label for phenomena which are currently not understood by any scientific framework, i.e. a phenomena with no way of investigation through the scientific method. What is currently classified as supernatural may in time be reclassified as natural, once science further matures and uncovers more and more of the natural world.
What it sounds like you're describing is people using science as their "religion". While I agree that this happens, from what I see it happens extremely rarely.
I also don't understand what you mean my "atheistic" world view - there is no such thing. Atheism isn't a world view. It's an answer to the question of whether you're convinced there is a God or not. That's not a world view.
It may be because I'm educated within the sciences, but all I see when I talk to my peers is the usage of science in the way I described earlier - both in speech and in practice.
@@GuitarLoverX That's great to hear, that at least in your circles it's not a common thing. I see it a lot though.
By 'atheistic world view' I mean a view of the world in which you believe that there is no God. It is a world view in my opinion. Now, I understand where you're coming from when you say it isn't. With the word God it's very tricky it comes with a lot of baggage and assumptions behind it. In scientific paradigm we automatically assume that God has to be something provable and when there's no evidence, great, no God we're done.
But that only goes back to my initial comment, you're already assuming that science is sufficient to understand reality and that's why you're calling atheism not a world view, because of that implicit assumption you're not noticing.
At least that's how I read your words and please correct me if I'm wrong.
Mind boggling..... Almost seems like she is acting..although I know she is not....simply the most comprehensive and compact view of Christianity, thank you Anthony ...this is the golden interview.... Good work man with a cam
The lack of understanding science is the biggest issue. Thinking theory means the same as scientific theory in so terrible.
Our vice president is in that group.
..yep... hear it all the time.. people r phucking idiots...
I really empathise with her.
Yes, me as well. I think that there is so much fear mongering going on in our society nowadays and this dishonest propaganda is purposefully trying to get people worked up and anxious about the world they live in so that they can get people to behave a certain way, ( usually using fear and anger).
The fact is, for the majority of people who live in North America, and other developed, democratic countries, life is generally pretty good, but it's hard to sell "stuff " or malignant ideas and lies to content, happy people, so you have to make them feel unsafe or worried about the world they live in first. As far as how third world countries and countries at war are, that can be pretty depressing, I agree.
Many years ago as a Christian I thought there’d be no meaning in life without God. Now I don’t get how there can be meaning in life on Earth with God... you might as well skip it and go straight to heaven.
No God gives meaning to life on Earth as if we don’t help each other, you won’t get help.
Katie there’s meaning to life! We are here for each other.
This! This, more than any other of your vids, hits an important truth that practically no one wants to acknowledge: our religious/spiritual beliefs, the ones we cling to most tenaciously, are almost completely based on our emotional needs. We may point to external validation, like scripture or tradition or authority, but the real reason we choose to follow any sort of "ultimate" religious, spiritual or ethical belief system is that it's emotionally satisfying or comforting. There are exceptions, but they're the exceptions that prove the rule.
Tony King I think you are spot on.
Dude, Anthony, you've had me completely hooked on your videos and I've watched most of them in a short period of time... it is so goddamn satisfying and fascinating watching these people reexamine their beliefs that it makes me want to go out and try this on my own! Looking at my past self and the irrational beliefs I held for no good reason, I can totally relate to these people and they're a pleasure to watch. Did you feel awkward/uneasy and not sure how to respond when she began getting emotional? It seems like a difficult situation to handle, you seemed to just keep your composure and even laugh it off a little, do you think you handled it well? Not sure what the best approach to that situation would be... I loved this exchange, it's very powerful when someone can open up and be honest like that. It's interesting, I too sensed slight hostility in her tone more than once throughout the conversation, making me even more shocked that it came down to being so open to the point of tears in front of a complete stranger! This video is up there with the Makayla video for me.
Might I suggest that it might be useful to end every encounter by telling your interlocutor that you have a popular youtube channel where you will post their video and where they can witness people of different faiths and beliefs use the same logic and reasoning to come to their own separate beliefs.... it might make them feel like they're not alone and help open the door to further reexamine themselves. Perhaps you already have your youtube channel written on the card you give them, idk. If i knew my discussion with someone was going to be posted on youtube for all to see, I would definitely want to watch it myself and in the process likely check out other videos. Funnily enough for this exchange with Katie its probably an exception and best not to mention it.
Keep up the good work dude, I'm a huge fan!
J Berezin well said, I completely agree...
J Berezin stop it your making me cry!
I agree with much of what you're saying here. The one thing I disagree with: I think if I were Katie, that I'd want to watch this one, too. :)
[edited for accuracy of my intent.]
Katie seems highly intelligent. I hope she emails you so you can help her understand her belief system when she is more prepared and less light-headed.
even if she does not i hope she continues to be honest with herself. I have found that even if you retain your belief in God being self-honest allows you grow as a person.
By the way, I was raised in Christianity and Science. I had no problems with evolution. My loss of faith was due to other things. I live with plenty of Christians who accept evolution.
But are they really christians then?And not just theists/deists with christian influence? I think christianity and many other religions just reject evolution and everyone who compromises like this is on the way of becoming an atheist even if the person doesn't realize it.
@@9696Punk: "are they really christians then?" -- sounds like the "no true scotsman" fallacy, though you're applying it in a different way than it often is, regarding the question you ask. There's no one universally-accepted definition of what it means to be a Christian, so... Yes, they really are, just not by the same definition as, perhaps, you happen to have been thinking when you asked the question.
I had the same emotional experience when I found out that Santa Claus was not real. I cried and felt that Christmas had no more meaning for me. Also I felt betrayed, so many adults confermed it was true, even my own parents who as a child I trusted the most fed me false information. I invested so much in the belief of Santa Claus, the belief that if i'm good all year I would get rewarded at the end. If I slipped up as most children often do, I was reminded that bad children only get a lump of coal and that was enough to get me back to being a good child. With out believing in Santa Clause, how or why would I try to be good all year and what is the point of Christmas. I could see this is how she was feeling about the belief in God. It hurts when your beliefs are shattered, especially when you held them your whole life. I found out at an early age about Santa Claus not being real and it was devastating, so believing in God from childhood to adulthood is even more painful.
I found this poem many years ago that really stuck with me because it's so true. Written over a hundred years ago:
My Father Christmas passed away
When I was barely seven.
At twenty-one, alack-a-day,
I lost my hope of heaven.
Yet not in either lies the curse:
The hell of it's because
I don't know which loss hurt the worse --
My God or Santa Claus.
Robert William Service
@@LazyIRanch man I’m literally the kid in this poem. Losing faith in a god felt like it ought to have a greater impact but Santa Claus was the first “big lie” for me.
Stop the mockery please.
"Without belief is Santa, I won't know why or how I would try to be good all year."
Is that really why you behaved well all year? For a 1 night worth of gifts? Even as a child, I can't take this idea that you believed it then seriously.
If you're mocking theists, are you really any different from them? Denigrating people for believing they're wrong.
If not, you were really the kid believing him, some believed, but your belief was too much compared to them. Keeping him in your mind in case he gets angry is something else.
And if you're mocking theists, how different are you really from them? The arrogance and laughing at someone's reasoning. Disgusting wherever it comes from.
I didn't feel warmly towards this woman for 90% of the conversation but wow, she got me in the end. Possibly the most intellectually honest Christian I've ever watched. It was supremely courageous of her to let her defenses down so vividly. I think she'd just grown weary from having to spout dogma she no longer fully believed - not just in this video but in her day to day life. An EXTRAORDINARY thing to watch. Again, just...wow.
What a great talk. She makes a point to highlight the imperfections of science as a justification for her beliefs, but when pressed on it, she was honest enough to recognize that there are control mechanisms built in. and it would seem to me, realizes that it has nothing to do with the validity of this claim.
When she starts to cry, 💔 that breaks my heart because she’s convinced that she needs the belief to have meaning. I have a lot of meaning in my life, most recently is my daughter. I hope that she continues to unpack these beliefs, and realize that her life has a ton of meaning, without it being bestowed from outside. ❤️
"When you were in the Hospital, you were surrounded by science." Exactly.
How many other people in that Hospital were also praying and didn't make it?
If there were a God who "healed" people, surely people wouldn't get sick in the first place and there'd be no need for science, not God, to attempt to heal them?
Thank you for a very good talk. I admired your self control. I would really have been tempted to say: "In reality, life has no purpose, and it does not matter. There is no reason for it. Enjoy life, and live for the moment." This would have been the wrong thing to do, and I appreciate that. I felt really sorry for her. Good work. Thank you. Regards from South Africa.
at the end I realized that parents teach thier children to hang onto deeply emotional beliefs and place little to no value on rational thinking. this woman is rarely challenged on her belief, and when a "random philosopher" walks along... Anthony hardly challenged her, just asked questions and she was breaking down in tears.
its a disgrace to think this is how we are raising the future generation. It's fine to be emotional, but to hinge your beliefs on emotions is dangerous. Thank you Anthony.
Unbelievable. This was amazing.
I hope she contacts you. I hope she continues to question.
james krause Thanks. Katie is an amazing person.
This video really resonates with me. I know it's over 3 years ago, but I just want to give Katie a hug and let her know that she is not alone. Through my journey I've often felt alone and afraid to come out to those around me, having the fear of be ostracized and rejected. I feel her emotion and understand firsthand where it comes from. I applaud Anthony for giving her some resources, if nothing else to make sure she understands that what she is going through is not unusual and others can be there by her side. I hope she has found support she needs.
Anthony, I have just found your channel recently, and I just want to thank you for what you do. Too many people don’t put a lot of thought process behind their beliefs and I love the way you just get them to focus on the reasons behind their beliefs without being combative. Through my journey I have found great value from others on TH-cam, but I can see how others could be put off by their styles. Keep up the great work!
Wow.
I just felt like hugging Katie after she broke down.
Her transparency and vulnerability here really allow a person to see why people believe in these things. From 15:50 onward, it's very, very touching to witness. I'm sure the early followers of these religions would have expressed things in similar ways. It's moving and it humanizes people a lot. This is people trying to find a stable ground in a world that just fills them with questions and frightens them.
I understand why you reached out to her and did what you usually don't do. When people are brought to such vulnerable states, people need to be careful. i think you did a good job and your thinking went to the right place.
We clearly see a person feeling very unmoored and confused and what you were trying to communicate to her was that she didn't have to be afraid if she felt like there was no ground beneath her feet. Her feelings and fears are genuine, but you tried to tell her that there are other grounds a person can stand on and that she wouldn't be alone there. She has no knowledge of that; the environment she comes from never made her aware of how wide human experience can be.
It saddens me. You can tell she tries to find answers and find order in her thinking, but unfortunately we can see she's gone down very unhelpful paths (freemason conspiracies, etc.) I know what it's like to be lost in these labyrinths.
People try their best and they still come out thinking the most bizarre things, things that are a kind of distracting replacement for proper careful answers. It's a distraction that, from a distance, seems very well fashioned to soothe a person's anxieties and really fit into all the questions that a person may have. But this is stuff that breaks down when one tries to be honest and has an undying innocent curiosity about the world and about themselves and about why they believe what they believe.
I think from our earliest moments, we as a species have been telling ourselves we're involved in something that is more stimulating and in tune with us than what really is the case, and when we see things soberly it really disturbs us. But I think it disturbs us because we haven't focused on what really matters, which is each other. We haven't built a ground between us that stands deeper than these religious stories and perspectives. If there's a big project Humanism could focus on, it would be that.
We feel frightened when we have to deal with each other. No wonder a person like Jesus, and the concept of a loving God, stand out so much and become such reference points for people. People have this deep, deep thirst for feeling safe around their fellow human beings and for being seen and listened to and understood, and yet we're so incoherent and chaotic and unpredictable that we reach out to ideas that are independent of us. But we're still left having done very little deep work on ourselves and done this together among ourselves. We've been distracted with 1000 year old stories and pushing each other to use those stories as guideposts, instead of talking to each other this transparently and with this much vulnerability and openness in the present moment.
I know it's a lot to ask but, man.... if there's anything that can be as sturdy as a religion, it's going to have to be a sincere openness and a thoughtful attitude between people. To experience that is an extraordinarily powerful thing. Ask any psychotherapist that has had breakthrough moments with his clients; ask people who attend support groups. It's actually something that's often associated with the divine and the transcendent. And yet it's just us. A lot of people forget that.
Katie: "Somebody's got to do something about it".
Yes, Katie. It's us!
That we reach out constantly to something else other than each other shows that we don't really believe we've got each other's backs. That's a very sad state of affairs.
As a Humanist, the stable ground that I try to find is in each other, as human beings, and in the fact that most of us are capable of goodness. I find that to be more than enough reassurance, even if we find out the Andromeda Galaxy doesn't give a crap about us and that there are hundreds of millions of planets that are literally just dust and wind. :P Any transcendence we could talk about here, I often find it in the mere fact that our existence is an awesome, cool mystery, and simultaneously in the potentials people have in themselves and in what they could do together with others.
If this isn't a sturdy ground for a person to stand on, I frankly don't know what is...
But do we have cultures that focus on that? Not really. We live in societies that don't cultivate this very well. I'm pretty much including every culture here. Even the West has a lot to learn and come to grips still.
I find that religions often distract people from concentrating on this inescapable, absolutely fundamental humanist core. We try to share wisdom and advice through stories but we often focus on the stories and the characters, when, at the end of the day, it's the advice and the experiences and the reassurances people are trying to share.
That's all we're doing. We're trying to share the world we're experiencing, sharing our experiences and what we've learned and what we doubt. I think the more transparent we are with each other, and the more understanding and patient we are with each other, the better off we'll be.
I never commented on any of the videos I've watched, and I've watched them all.
This was SO touching. You're not alone, Katie.
You are doing great work my friend.
Really got deep with her, and it's great to watch. She got defensive for a bit, but then really broke through.
We realise the preciousness of this life in this world by recognising that it's all we have. This should motivate us to contribute to the greater good of life on earth, which is our true source of meaning, purpose and fulfillment.
It is awful the state that religion can bring people to; she is afraid to question and doubt her beliefs. It's interesting that she mentioned science/scientists knowing 100% because it is the everything she fears of doing that scientist continuously do: doubt and question EVERYTHING. That is how science makes progress and why religion is the same as it was since the beginning of time. Religion not only robs people of their integrity, rationality and intellectual freedom but also the amazing wonder and humbling experience of perhaps knowing something real. I say this not to disrespect anyone but to express what I commonly see. It pains me to see this woman cry.
Amanuel Tadesse Yes. Which is why thoe who never fell for it, and those who made it out, should try to be there for those who are still in it, or are making their way out.
Thank you for responding back, I totally agree with you! Also, thank you for starting to do these videos because they have really helped me as I am sure they do to others. Before coming across Street Epistemology, I was like many atheists: I was some what rude and aggressive when talking to theists. It never came across to me of how ineffective that approach was but I am happy and thankful to see that here is a better approach and I can see the difference in your videos.
I have recently (about 6 months ago) told my family that I don't believe. At first it was just me just asking them questions that an atheist may ask and how they would respond but they quickly caught on. At first, I asked the question because of my own concern of not getting it (like Katie in the interview) but after a while that just went away. With that being said, seeing how my parents have reacted to me being an atheist, I cannot imagine how they would react if they started doubting themselves. For this reason, I think talking to them about religion and asking questions will do more harm than good for them. I don't know how to help. I would love to hear what you think.
This was a phenomenal example of how well SE works. I watched it a second time just to appreciate it. I'm really happy that you decided to share the information about the growing group of non-religious people who still find great meaning in the world. In my experience, knowing that you are not the only one is always a help. Thank you again for the video.
God do I understand where this girl is coming from..... I feel like she’s given the most honest reason so far for believing something that subjectively not realistic
Anthony dude I am so glad I found your channel.
Great job as usual Anthony but, AMAZING job to Katie! Keep questioning and keep striving to be honest with yourself Katie. There are people here to help you all along the way.
The greatest part of becoming awoken is the meaning of life is yours to put upon it. When I finally realized I had no reason to believe in God it was very difficult but believe me Ma'am you'll be far better off for it. All the best to you in all your endeavors. Seek support from the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
Wow. I've be watching these since very early on, and that was absolutely exceptional. They way she transitioned from one frequently cited argument to the next was almost eye roll inducingly clean, like a poorly scripted parody, very Poe's Law. The balance of evidence points to it being genuine, but you might say I'm still 1% doubt. ;)
And just with that, I'm reminded of how jaded I might have become and how much of a real struggle this can be for people. Sometimes they're angry, closed, indifferent, or elated with some sense of enlightenment or the release from a burden. Her open, raw distress and despair, though...I feel for her. Hits you right in the empathy. I hope she finds peace in the search for clarity.
Thanks so much for sharing.
It's been more than 2 years, so you probably won't see this, but Katie - brave girl! - I was in your shoes. I was devastated by the realization that none of it was real. The carpet had been pulled out from under me. I was betrayed and so disappointed. But, eventually I got past the dark times, the clouds cleared, and I've been unburdened ever since.
Humans eyes are so perfect that I wear glasses 😩
Wow, man! What an avalanche you caused there with just a few words! She basically opened her thought-prison, walked around it and then talked herself into getting back in. I hoped she learns what evolution is and that meaning is something we ourselves can give our life! Love your work!
When he told her about the growing community of people with no belief in gods, he paused. Fucking scientific.
I am so glad you mentioned the support structures out there for people who do loose their faith. It was necessary mention this. Very few people realize that there is another world, one without God that also do good, have support structures and operate in a community.
I was really touched by this talk. I think she is very brave and honest. It goes to show how much religion means to people, and that doubting can be painful.
You did a great job at the end, Anthony, explaining that the emotional issue is normal. That way she gets a chance to not feel alone ot awkward.
I really adore Katie's answers and showing her emotion doesn't make her weak, it makes her an incredibly strong person. I can see and feel her heartbreak for the world and how bad it is now and people do struggle with that.
Captcha C Well said.
Thanks Anthony
It's interesting watching you peel back the layers of why they believe.
Did ANYONE get a notification when this talk with Katie was released? I checked the box to Notify Subscribers when I changed this video from Unlisted to Public, but several people have told me that they did not get notified. Thanks for your input.
Anthony Magnabosco I did not. It just showed up in my recommended list yesterday.
Anthony Magnabosco Side note- Do you have any expenses related to your work? I imagine your travel costs are covered when you speak, but are you able to do all that and remain employed? I've never seen a patreon link and you're doing great and very important work. 'You're doing God's work' comes to mind but doesn't seem quite appropriate.
This video did show up in my feed. But the previous one (can't recall his name at the moment; the "chicken and waffles" guy) did not.
Maybe the problem is cause by uploading the video as unlisted and later changing to public, or having "Notify Subscribers" originally unchecked and later checking it. Just guessing.
interlinkknight As far as I can tell, you have one shot to Notify Subscribers--once you do it, regardless if the video is Unlisted or Public, you can't do it again (the option box becomes greyed out). For years I've been able to upload a video as Unlisted, have a few people watch it to get feedback, add to the description field, card links, etc, and then tick the box 'Notify Subscribers?', change the video to Public, and hit Save, which would (presumably) notify all my subs.
Wow! What a great talk. It's like we could see her go through very clear stages of questioning, denial, defensiveness, helplessness and grief. Watching Katie's emotions here was like a microcosm of my own life over the past 4 years. Powerful. Thanks for sharing.
She was amazing and you did so well to get her to a place to share that.
This did a lot to strengthen my lack of belief.
Good talk. Losing your belief is liberating. You are then the one responsible for your actions and beliefs. Life still has meaning but it's yours to find, it's just no longer reliant on a deity.
Katie, thanks for your honesty and thoughtfulness. I wanted to give you a big hug when you got teary (just in a motherly way - I'm a mum to three twenty-somethings).
I hope your dizziness passes and that you'll give more thought to this chat. Best wishes :)
She got so emotional because she convinced herself of the truth, with your help.
I've actually been in 2 rollover accidents in my life and I wasn't hurt at all. It never even occurred to me that it was a miracle.
Good on her for questioning and not blindly believing, but church services are intentionally designed to maximize release of dopamine so people feel 'connected'. There should be more Sunday Assemblies with singing and such as alternatives for people who need that release.
Dropping reason and logic and making them question themselves after so long of indoctrination can make them scared and have them cry. She doesnt want to let go of the indoctrination because its so instilled in her but I hope she wakes up and realize its all indoctrination. Anthony your way of doing epistemology is more powerful then yelling and arguing like the other guys do. Keep up the good work. Im addicted to these videos lol
"Why am I getting so emotional?" Because you're trying to cope with the very foundation of your psychology possibly being based on non-truths. Man, I probably cried and screamed every night for a few weeks. When that base is taken out, everything else falls and gets scattered around for a bit. It takes a LOT of work to sort the "bad" parts from the "good" parts as you work to re-build your psyche anew, the way you want it. It's exausting, and it's almost essential that you reach out and find a supportive community that doesn't try and push beliefs down your throat. There's no shame in losing your cool over this, on the contrary it's remarkably brave that you're willing to talk openly about it.
She needs to take some actual science classes. I remember that I gave up religion when I entered high school. Physics, chemistry, biology, and history classes opened my eyes to the way that the world actually worked. Even in high school I could see how it all fit together. It all fits together. It all fits together.
After several questions with Nancy (other recent video), she said she refused to believe that in the end you just die and you're gone. Greg (another recent video) eventually talked about potentially giving up his faith belief as leaving him morally ungrounded or unhinged. Here, Katie eventually talks about hopelessness in this world without her beliefs.
A key meta question for me here is this: might it be the case for many people that behind faith as an epistemology is an emotional dependency on said beliefs as a core issue continually motivating them to suspend disbelief in the first place? And IF this indeed is the case, what would it suggest to us about how to most strategically help people let go of faith as an epistemology?
In some cases, might it even be possible to address and resolve said emotional dependency on said beliefs before challenging those beliefs so that the person is in a position emotionally to let go of it intellectually when its questioned?
DJ Wilkins Great observations and questions. I think one way to reduce the emotional dependency on God believes is for non-believers to be out if they are able to. Normalizing atheism so that people can observe that we are just like everybody else could be the best way to defang the false trappings of faith.
Katie, if you are reading this - my love goes out to you so much
I love her honesty even if I disagree with her logic. The meaning is, just be and be happy. I think she she look into other communities, even if she chooses to go back to church. There are beautiful things to discover. Some of her questions have been clearly answered by science, and that journey of discovery is fantastic.
Maybe the "greater plan" is NOW...? Why does everything have to be about tomorrow and what's coming and how it could be better? Maybe today is enough. Just a thought, for Katie and for all of us.
Hillary Campbell Beautiful. Thank you.
Man, Anthony. Kudos to you and your composure. I find a lot of your videos challenging to listen to because I want to refute their claims, and this one was probably the hardest. I really hate that "Oh well maybe the doctors kind of had a little to do with my recovery," as if we're still working with dark age medicine. Doctors do too much to be dismissed like that and God does too little to get all the glory for their hard work. It makes me so mad.
One of my best friends had late stage cancer and made a full recovery thanks to cutting-edge cancer research and treatments. Who knows how may years or decades earlier we could have had that, how many more lives it could have saved, if not for science denialism impeding our progress all because people don't fucking understand anything and think that means they know better than people who do. I know indoctrination plays a big role a lot of the time but that doesn't make it any easier to stomach.
Rant aside, SE is so worth doing because telling Katie bluntly how wrong and harmful her beliefs are would only further entrench her instead of make her think. You do great work by sticking by that and not letting your emotions sour the conversion, and you're setting a great example. Really hoping Katie keeps questioning.
She was amazingly honest and willing to consider her beliefs. That is very brave of her. it isn't easy. I totally get the idea of fear and a lack of meaning when you drop the beliefs. Realizing you had the control all along and you gave it up is hard. But realizing you are the captain of your ship and can decide your destiny is freeing. I would love of follow up of how she is doing today!
That's a tough place to be in, as anyone who's de-converted can attest. Hopefully she keeps exploring those doubts and see's it through. Good interview.
I'm impressed at your composure, man. I cringed as soon as she went to the whole "can't prove science". I wouldn't have been able to refrain from correcting her.
It was interesting how she would say, You're not able to test it, instead of, I'm not able to test it. As far as her emotional break down at the end I would tell her that she is not sick or broken and that it's okay to doubt and question your beliefs. That is how we grow and learn.
I´m deeply impressed how easily you start a faithful conversation.
If there is no bigger meaning in life, what is it all about? Katie! Did you not just enjoyed runing down the trail? Did you not enjoy feeling the warm sunshine on your skin and the wind in your hair?
Katie... if there is no plan for your life... that just means that you can give it your own personal meaning, you just have to have the courage to admit that it is in your hands and start accting upon that revelation! Take care and believe in yourself!
Fascinating interaction. Her beliefs are balanced on a knife edge.
I think that there's a lot of cognitive dissonance going on.
Your questions will make her think.
It really makes me sad to think an adult cannot find meaningful no & purpose in her life without believing in some imagined deity and religious narrative.
Life has much more meaning and purpose without religion. I hope some day she'll get chance to awaken to this realisation.
Nice work Anthony👍.
My OpenMind Thanks. I too hope Katie will come to see the beauty and wonder in this one life.
Wowzers!
I think the natural environment (birds singing/plane overhead) brings such a moment to these.
It's almost a step aside from the clutter and to Stop! And think!
With everything else going on....
This is a moment.
This was awesome Anthony! Just what I needed as I'm currently in a SE conversation via facebook that started from the human eye complexity angle. I'm planning to give a short presentation about SE to the "Diversity Club" here on my campus next month. If that goes well, I'll try it in longer form at a conference in January. Your compassion, active listening and empathy with Katie just shines through. I hope you hear from her again.
Emotional Coaster.....
It's just got to be that way..... enough to cry about the thought of not having that thought to make it through the night...
Less than admirable reasoning, in my view
Great talk!!
Katie, it's always difficult to lose a belief... it's scary. But when you start seeing pass that fear... life REALLY feels much more worth living. Don't be afraid... you're not alone 😘
I feel for this girl. It really is a hard pill to swallow to realize that everything you were raised to believe, from your parents, whom you trust, is possible all wrong. It is very difficult.
After you said that there are a lot of atheists, that still see meaning in life - another question that might be interesting to ask her is 'how do you think these people find their meaning?'. To get her thinking in the right direction.
Anyhow, Great Interview, interesting watch.
Two *huge* positives for this girl - 1) she's open to new information and 2) she's already questioning things (awesome, in and of itself!). That said, I really hope she does a little research to get some answers (cuz there are actually a lot of *answers* out there, not just speculation) for a lot of the topics she threw out (e.g., evolution, function of the eye, testing in science, etc). But I can relate, she's *started* on the path, and sometimes that's the hardest part! Go Katie go!
This a good interview and clearly she is trying to reconcile what she observes everyday with the mixed messages of a religion. I think she was probably currently going through something that has brought her to question her faith. I thought it was appropriate to make her aware that religion doesn't dictate ones happiness. It is up to individuals to make their own happiness how ever they choose. I hope she gets the support she needs to get her to better place, where ever that may be for her.
First of all, Katie is amazing for being so honest and brave to say what she does. I really hope she's well and wish her the best on her journey. I have one observation I felt like writing down:
It's interesting that she mentions that as an alternative to the bible being "100% true", she has "looked into conspiracy theories"... it's a bit disheartening to see what methods and sources people are turning to to understand the world. Instead of for example turning to academics who've studied the bible from different angles and fields, or just openly and slowly apply a rational mindset. It's not her fault, it's the system she's grown up in, just as perhaps most people around the world and through history. I'm just hoping that we can move to learning better ways of thinking and not being overly confident in our beliefs that we can't falsify and/or don't have sufficient evidence of.
Wow, what a great conversation. I can sympathize with Katie on what she must be going through. Well done on offering an avenue that she could explore, if she chooses.
On a side note, do you have the hardware to get a second angle of your face so that we can experience the expressions and facial language that you use during these talks? In this video, I feel that it would have helped to see your reactions as the conversation took different turns.
TuberGreg I was thinking of attaching a mirror to my whiteboard to see if that might address that common request.
Normally I think it's a good thing to question peoples believes. But in this case I had some serious doubts. Her belief is like an anchor of her meaning of life. And probably also an explanation what happens to her when she dies. Questioning this will create confusion and anxiety and may bring her into trouble. And that was probably why she got so emotional.
If I were in your place, I would take more time to acknowledge her feelings. It is very natural to be anxious about life being meaningless (or what would happen to you when you die). Even as an atheist I fully recognise these emotions.
I would not offer any help from other atheists because they can be just as pushy as religious people. I would rather advice her to talk to a psychologist to help her handle her anxieties.
Katie, if you are reading this, I hope you are well and that you have found meaning to your life again! In the Netherlands we say: life is a party, but it's your job to hang out the bunting. Another way to give meaning to life is to help other people.
Aw, the sweetheart. I cried with her. I am an atheist, completely, and I felt so sad that questioning her faith made her cry. I think she's been through a lot and it is hard for people to think about giving up what they've always "known" or been taught or surrounded with their entire lives. It wasn't hard for me, it happened the first time i really gave it honest thought. But I wasn't raised to be religious or really, didn't even notice much about religion growing up. I am always surprised still, at how enmeshed people seem to be in their "faith."
Another thing that surprises me is how willing people are to talk to a stranger or to stop and chat with you. I don't think that would happen here in Ontario, Canada, maybe I'm wrong, but I just think most people would say, "No, thank you," and keep going.
I also think people are right when they say that she may be close to ending her belief. She seemed to go, rapidly, through the stages of grief after loss, I noticed. First she was defensive, (denial), then angry, then sad and accepting. What an interesting one to watch but sad for her.
The reason it won't hapoen in Canada is, you Canadians are too polite to disagree with someone, so all the discussion gonna be is for anyone to go by would say (yes, I think you're right).
@@reda29100 Thanks but no, we will disagree. I have disagreed with many people and I will stand my ground and I won't back down. But I do realize that I cannot force people to give up religion or any belief and I would never try. All we can do is try to spread knowledge, ask questions and try to get people to think. Maybe if they think, they'll think their way out of religion. But, no, people don't, at least as far as I can tell, want to talk to random people in the street who are asking questions, at least I don't. I would just say, "No, thanks," and move on. It's more that I don't want to waste my time on a survey or someone who wants to sell me something or preach at me. That's what I wouldn't want. I'm always afraid of an ulterior motive. I just shut the door on Jehovah's Witnesses. They're not going to waste my time. It's not being polite, it's "don't bother me." I'll say it politely with a smile, but I'm firm. I will use FB as a platform to talk about Secular Humanism, but that's it. I leave it out of my conversation elsewhere unless someone asks and it's a pleasant atmosphere. It often isn't. Although, Anthony seems to have a soothing effect on people. I'm not a people person.
I was brought up as an atheist as a child, when I first encounter religion I asked my parents if there's a god, their answer was "if you believe in it then there is, if you don't then there isn't" I always found that answer unsatisfactory. But because I wasn't brought up religious I've approach philosophies differently.
For example, in this video she got very emotional with the meaning of life. But I myself are very content that I'm just a blip in the universe that I'm here today and one day I'll be gone and there will never be another me. I've never been sad about that fact, why is that? Is it because religious people never make peace with death and oblivion?
Isn't one life enough? Can't we give our own meaning to the lives we have whether it's fanatical success or making the world a better place?
Katie was awesome, really honest to both herself and you. These talks must be hard for you sometimes, I don't know if you ever devonverted or not but it brought back a lot of emotions for me.
Thanks for posting these gems!
Even though is still working through her doubts, and she doesn't have all the answers right now, she still made a few relevant points.
She said, "if there is no God, then what's the point? We live, we die, that's it?" (Paraphrase)
As an agnostic myself, I too struggle with questions like this.
If there are other atheists or agnostics reading this, then yeah, what she said is what we believe.
If you are ever talking with a Christian, or any other believer, realize that they may feel this way too.
Atheists have a negative stereotype that we are always angry or bitter.
We should try to change this image by being sympathetic, we can say we understand where they come from and we just want to help them think, or that we can provide emotional support while they doubt.
Doubt is a tricky thing emotionally, so be weary of it if a believer you know is doubting.
is any subscriber of anthony has this video showing on your subscriber feed? I don't see it on my subscription feed
I felt like Katie got her defenses up even with the relaxed line of questioning.
I think Why she believes in God (1)Super natural things in my life/personal experiences (2) Complexities of life trees
3) She was brought up that way/Personal experience !!! Interesting conversation Anthony
I've actually shed a tear..its so sad that we can pass things on to our children knowing
Those things haven't been tested to be true...I hope Katie understands that we aren't here for a purpose, but we can find a purpose while we are here..
Peaking into an abyss, in which there is no loving higher power to affirm your worth and bathe you in love, is a terrifying prospect. Some shrink back to deal with the existential anxiety brought on by this. Ironically it sometimes takes faith, that things will work out, to jump into the abyss. A leap of faith in yourself.
Fantastic work Anthony. You negotiate these conversations with such tact and humanity. Awesome....
Even though I saw the live stream I'm glad I watched it again because there are parts of the talk that I definitely missed, and some where important.
Anthony, the way you handle these sometimes delicate situations is awesome! keep it up :)
Zach Thanks for watching it live and again here. The GoPro captures so much more than a portrait-oriented iPhone over Periscope.
Thanks for keeping me up at night
Thanks for this!
Have a problem with giving her comfort and something to look forward too? No in fact... I don't think you went far enough in letting her know she is not alone and it is a process. If she goes down that road... there is a community to support her. Life is good.
Skavar4000 She does have my card and will hopefully contact me when/if that need for community arrives.
Wow, I watched this one over again.
What a courageous individual. She was incredibly honest and may have come to a new realisation about her god belief.
I this she knows that you were asking genuine unbiased questions. You certainly didn't come over as trying to disavow her of her beliefs.
For adults questioning their god belief there can be a lot of emotions, guilt, anger, shame, fear, isolation etc. Sometimes knowing that you are not alone when you begin to doubt can be a huge solace.
Do you have a website with a list of useful resources on it?
She sounded to me that she feels somewhat lost and vulnerable at the possible realisation that her god may not be real. Support from a local humanist community may help her open her eyes to other ways to view life that perhaps she hasn't previously contemplated.
Anthony, a great video and great conversation as alway.
Beautifully relevent and delicate exchange. Thanks Anthony.
First time I have actually seen you go +1 past neutral. Great interview.
Strand FPV Films Thanks. There is a time and place for SE, and a time and place for post-SE.
Strand FPV Films This guy is a self proclaimed atheist. There isn't a neutral bone in his body.
Drew I know he is but I have seen most of his videos and to this guest he stays neutral and rarely ever tells them his belief. He makes it about them and not him. I understand why he did it, I was just making the observation.
that got my water works going.
please wake up, Katie.
That was excellent! It's good that you made her aware of community outside of religion. She was very confused in doubt and it was clearly painful for her! She seemed to be really searching for something that was clearly not god! Really really good!👍🏻
This was very powerful - thank you!