K2500 Suburban brake upgrade fail + Cost of Dana 70 Swap
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- I just finished up the Dana 70S rear axle swap on my GMT400 Suburban K2500, and I had intended to upgrade one more part of the brakes as well, but on my K2500 Suburban there is one factory part that prevents me from making any more changes at the moment... But the axle swap is complete, the stance is spot on, and it time to see if it will drive straight down the road. Also, we go over the total cost of converting from the 14 bolt full floater to the Dana 70S from a Chevy Express 3500 SRW Van. Any guesses?
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#solidaxleswap #dana70 #chevysuburban
Chapters:
0:00 Dana 70 Swap is DONE
1:23 I messed up the Caliper
4:02 Bleeding the Brakes HOW TO
5:47 Master Cylinder FAIL
8:56 What did it COST?
11:49 TEST DRIVE TIME - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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NM2779 master cylinder autozone..should be the one you need its off of a astro van..UPGRADE...😎👊🏻 for the hydro boost...
Would that part number fit the original hydra boost for a c2500? I tried the newer model for my 99 c2500 and I ran into the same issue with bore bring larger. I’m getting ready to do LUGNUT4X4 rear disc conversion and I believe upgrading the master would help tremendously. Thanks
@@dalehall2993 as long as the bore is the same size as the old style. I’m good. I was told a newer style MASTER is a lot better due to shorter stroke= better braking power. But I’ll definitely look into that.
From my personal experience, on my 1998 c2500, i upgraded to the Astrovan master cylinder, and it is a night and day difference!!!
@@mattcat231 what year Astrovan? Now I’m really interested. I actually Just replaced my master with a new original and my brakes feel a lot better but when I do my rear disc conversion I will probably replace it with the Astro one. Thanks for the tip.
is the NM2779 from a 4 wheel disc brake astro?
Wasn’t gonna track straight or turn. Lmao. It never ceases to amaze me the ideas people come up with.
I'm old enough to be wrenching before and during and after their life span. Most people don't know there were a couple of years that had 4 wheel disc brakes and they are massive. The c3500hd 2wd dually interchange. I have it on all my k2500s, hydroboost, master cylinder, calipers, and rotors. The size is a BIG difference. You are increasing the gvw braking power, and no spindle changes.
GM brake code JF9
Auto zone pt #
Master cylinder NM2754
Hydroboost 52-7338
Front rotors 55028
Front calipers Pass. C541
Driver c540
thanks so much for the info thats super helpful!
Wow that's good info
So just what couple of years had those BIG Brakes in them so I can find these parts for my 99 K2500 big block 7.4L- would love to put them on my truck. Thanks for the info .
A man with knowledge. A lot of the 3500hd are interchangeable. I work in the junkyard business. I'm currently working on my 99 k2500 4x4 diesel Suburban LS
Going to put a dually under it
With 19.5 wheels. Built 6.5 bomb proof. Used everything the marine models up grades.
Great job with gmt400, I did the hydroboost conversion on my 96 4 door 4wd tahoe. I use parts off of C3500HD, hydrobooster and spacer, master cylinder, and proportioning valve. Works great with gmt800 half ton rear brake swap also. Those are the best mods I done to it.
That truck is a beast! No cost is too much when it comes to satisfying OCD.
Fact!
i appreciate the struggle being shared. makes it even more real.
I love how you do factory upgrades, I do the same type of stuff. Keep up the great work
I NEVER keep track of my costs... as if I did, I'd end up in tears! :)
yeah, it hurts sometime
I watched you kick ass on PN but starting over in your own garage by yourself has been impressive - I hope you years of success 👍
I used to keep spreadsheets of everything I did. I realized that knowing the total amount freaked me out more than anything. Now I just say "it's what I want to do" and stopped worrying about the money.
I really enjoy how much of the smaller details you go into, really enjoying your vids since finding your own vids on youtube the otherday. Its nice country side your driving through.
162👍's up LT thanks again for taking us all along with you for the rest of the build
Watched your Dana 70 series. You are knowledgeable, know what you want, and do outstanding work. Thanks for video.
much appreciated!
You just fixed what bothers me about those trucks. It looks awesome now. What a great project and channel. Thankyou
Cost analysis was much appreciated. My not keep one at home but gives us viewers an idea for ball park if it is worth it. Great content as always. Looks like it is riding just right now.
Great job man keep it up!
Good job. I really appreciate your honesty when things go sideways..That is reality. I look forward to your videos ..
Looking good 👍 can't wait to see what's next
Great job on the upgrade! I love the interchangeable nature of stuff like this....gives me waaaay too many ideas that I hafta budget for😄😁😎
Awesome video, I’ll have to check the master cylinder on my 97 Tahoe I was going to do the upgrade on it thanks for the info
Awesome job LT. It looks amazing. I refuse to use wheelspacers under any circunstance.
I used to think that. Then I watched Whistlindiesel abuse some, his 11,000#-rated Dana 80 axle bent but his billet spacers didn't fail. So I got a pair of 2" for my Dana 60 under my '72 F250. I then added 5,000# and went driving. Now it's 8 months later, they're still going strong.
Yup,the dot goes on the outside,at least u found out quick,I always match them side by side with the old ones,I think something like this has happen to all of us,lol.
Good job and turned out good for the look that you want. Just a bug or two as always. Good week to you LT.
It's good to know that even experienced guys make mistakes. Keep sharing the mistakes ... it helps us learn from your experience.
hey will do! nothing to hide here, and thanks for watching!
Great Upgrade! Keep them coming.
Thanks! Will do!
Before you go through the trouble of changing the hydroboost check the dimensions on a GMT800 1/2 ton hydroboost master cylinder. I honestly dont know if they are different but you could measure in the parts store to see. 2004 Suburban 4wd vin Z will work to look up the part.
As someone trying to nail down the sloppy steering in a lifted k2500 Suburban I figured I would make a shameless plug for BlueTop Steering gears in Stanton ND. He was able to custom machine the top plate and fit a needle bearing in above the sector shaft to help hold things true better than the stock bronze bushing up top. Plus I think he is cheaper than a redhead unit.
Another side note, someone else mentioned the length of the u bolts in another post but ORD makes a U-bolt flip kit to help eliminate the water/rust trough on the bottom of the axle and gain some clearance for the nuts hanging down below the tube.
All in all great content, I appreciate seeing someone else addressing the same issues on the same truck. If I ever get out to Utah with mine I'd love to get some side by side shots of them.
Looks like it all turned out good L.T.👍👍
Awesome video you have me really interested in your project i have always liked that vehicle
As always God bless you and stay safe out there 🙋♂️ 🇬🇧
Thanks, you too!
Using the GMT800 spindles allows you to use the GMT T1XX rotors and four piston brake calipers, however you need to use a washer to space out the caliper just a tad for clearance. .
The new axle looks great!! Nice work! Sometimes getting brakes to bleed out with these newer vehicles can be a pain to do but it will be worth it!
i know, next I need to grab a scan tool so I can actuate the ABS module bleed sequence
Let us know some more info on that too thanks LT
Sometimes on that generation of GM truck chassis, you have to hook up a diagnostic tester and do a forced ABS cycle to properly bleed the rear brakes, or to allow bleeding. I was involved in a case of this on a truck that the rear brake line had broken near the fuel tank, 1997 K1500.
I have a good guess for a master cylinder to fit your existing booster. Think 99 C3500HD truck chassis. They would be 4 wheel disc brake.
One tidbit on hydroboost to master cylinder changes is also the length of the bore in the end of the master cylinder piston vs the booster pushrod length to it. There are changes from one model to the next. The military M1008 and M1009 difference on that little part is a prime example not found in parts catalogs. Too short=late to braking, too long=dragging brakes.
Thanks for great video info series.
You bet!
Nice conversion! I just found out that my gmt 800 is 3.73 gears. And I was told it was 4.10's when I bought it. My fault for believing the dealer and not checking the rpo codes... but it has the 11.5 AA, but doesn't have limited slip. I want to convert to 4.10's since I also put 20 x 10 x 33's on it, also the previous owner put on newer Silverado 20 inch rims, but I didn't like them. I was looking at just replacing the diff to a posi traction setup, and that alone is almost 1000 or more from what I have seen. And I'm in MI, and my axles are more rusty than what you started with. Also he removed the whole e brake system, my pedal does nothing. After watching you clean that axle up, it really makes me want to do the same and just pull it down, fix the brakes, do the gears, and paint it..
So I’m not the only one to put the pads in wrong. I caught mine when I went to do the other side
Looks great. I'm currently rebuilding my front end. I did a rear disc conversion on my 14 bolt semi floating axle last winter.
I may swap master cylinder too. I've got new brake hoses, new calipers, new rotors, hub bearings, cv axles, ball joints, control arm bushings, tie rod ends, adjusting sleeves, centerlink, steering stabilizer, idler arm, pitman arm, steering box, upgraded steering shaft with u joints instead of rag joints. Differential drop bracket, g80 locker in the 9.25 front, lockright lunchbox locker in the 9.5 rear. Oh, and new shocks too. She'll be good when I get the time to finish her!
Hey Eric on the 14 bolt Simi float did you go with a disks brake kit like lug nuts or other, or did you get a newer GM factory to fit, I'm having a hard time with the after market kits with a little Cadillac caliper,
I already have 17 inch rims on a 96 2500 HD 8,600 gvw.
@@patrickjohnson7801 Lug Nutz is the exact kit that I used. It was like $340 when I did mine. The worst part was pulling the axles and driving out the wheel studs. The rotor mounts inboard of the wheel studs. Much like the front rotors mount inboard of the front hub bearings. Aside from that, it was a very quick install.
@@EricErnst thanks for the info, that's the one I have been looking at I guess any thang is better than what I have, I'm going through a set of front pads in about 9,000 miles, I was hoping to see someone do a factory HD 3/4 ton conversion to a OBS
Simi float, probably not just because of 8 lugs to 6 lug just My thought, was hoping someone would come up with something?
@@patrickjohnson7801 I'm sure it could be done. I have heard of it, but i didn't want to have to source all of the parts from a junkyard truck.
@@patrickjohnson7801 th-cam.com/video/_ZiI9AfnYv8/w-d-xo.html
here's a quick video that I filmed. I put stealthy over-axle traction bars and new shocks on at the same time as my rear disc conversion.
Great video
I'm ready to see u do the front brake upgrade. I got the parts to do it. Just need the time to drill the ball joint holes. As for the loose steering do the rag joint delete to the u joint style. Cunningham machine has the u joints and shaft
Probably from Borgeson
I'm getting ready to do the Cunningham Machine u-joint myself. I'm excited.
Thats for 88-94 only..i see they do have one for a 95-00 only as well.
Great video. Thank you for your effort in documenting your project. Carpe Diem.
Gonna be a looker when complete.
I sure hope so
I did the same thing with the rear brakes on my ranger, assumed that the two shoes wrapped together were for the same side, nope. Front shoes and rear shoes wrapped together, haha.
Looks much better
I understand the OCD thing...
I swapped to a Nbs 2500 hydroboost and disc brake rear axle. Unscrewed the mounting plate and pulled the pushrod out and switched it and recrimped it. Then it bolts right in. Stops way better.
You can get the bleeder screw out, get a torch, a bottle of water and an easy out. Heat the corner with the bleeder screw real fast then shock it with the water and then use the easy out. I've done this many times and have had no problems with the calipers, as long as you heat it up and cool it off right away.
Here in Utah County, wheel spaces technically aren't legal (without a safety inspection anymore, nobody is getting cited for them). So for legality you went the better route.
That’s not entirely true. The bolt on wheel adapters are legal. The slip on wheel spacers are illegal.
Challenge Personam jurisdiction per Basso vs Utah Power and Light
That's referring to the spacers that don't have a second set of wheel studs pressed in. But they were factory original equipment on every '84-'92 Camaro and Firebird that came with 16" wheels.
LT demands satisfaction!
lol
hey, if you're going to do it, you gotta do it right. thats my motto
lt i did this swap and used a manual brake bias valve for the rear from summit
I agree with going the Dana 70 route, you'll be better much off down the road. The wider axle will be more stable going down the highway, not less.
Technically, that depends on if he leans far enough to move the center of gravity out that far. The real, tangible benefit is ground clearance under the differential housing
Nice job, planning on a 3/4 ton rear axle on a 95 Dakota, lots of planning and suspension work ahead. Front spindles and brakes will be from 03 full size van, axle fro 04 2500. Same thought process, bigger and disc brakes all around. Also looking at hydro boost and master from 04 Ram instead of vacuum booster.
Unless you're trying to do what the 4x4 guys call tons, meaning 1-ton axles, on the cheap, you'd be better off swapping your 8.25" axle for a Durango 9.25" axle.
Fun video series. I was interested to see the gear setup on that D70 was much more like a 14b (with side adjusters) than a typical Dana Spicer axle. For the money and effort I would have gone with an 01-06 14b (AAM 10.5). Per car-part.com you can get one in the Salt Lake area for 400-500 bucks with 4.10 gears and posi with factory disc brakes. Yes, it would be about 1" narrower per side. Probably still acceptable for your project. Either way I appreciate you taking this on and showing the work and cost of the project. Staying tuned for what you have coming up next.
that was my next choice for axle, the GMT800 10.5 14 bolt. Its about 67" in width from my research, so it would've been close, but I just wanted to go all in if I was gonna go through the effort to switch the axle
@@LawrenceTolman I get it 100%. The newer disc brake aam 10.5 should be about 68.25 wms-wms for future reference. I've put them under several Jeeps and they work well when matched with newer wider Ford D60's.
The Dana 70 gives more ground clearance under the differential housing
The 2011 GMT-900 hydrobooster is an upgrade for the GMT-800 setup. GM GENUINE 1781036 supposed to be a better design. It's well talked about in the 2500 Suburban group.
I'd be interested to see what's required to run the GMT900 2500 booster and master in my GMT400
Thanks for the videos! I've got a '99K2500 4x4 and bought a spare 95 or 96 i forget, but it came with an already swapped 2005 HD disc brake axle. I've pulled it from the dosage and I'll be selling it onto my '99. Now I'm curious about the widths and caliper type lol.
Great video thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
14:55 that sound.... Is like a monster taken a deep breath..
The 3500hd from those years had some big disc and rotors front and rear.. Always wondered how the master cylinder and booster from those years would work. Should be a bolt in. Can't remember if the hose connections were the same side?
Did you run into any problems with your emergency brake cables?
Are you going to run an adjustable proportioning valve & delete the ABS? Or do you have any ideas that might work with OTC OEM parts?
Excellent work BTW! 🤘😎👍
It's the plunge in the hydroboost that makes it feel like that
I cant wait to see your front end video I have a 2000 k3500 and I hate doing the front brakes because of the captured rotors I have heard that you can do a 2001 2500 non hd knuckle swap but i would like to see some in depth details about it before i bite the bullet and do it. Im wondering if you can use gmt400 wheel bearings or if you have to use gmt800 ones and if i can use my CV axles and how much out of alignment it will all be at the end of the job. Thanks for the videos LT! You are always very detail oriented and informative!
I'll go over it in detail when I do the conversion for sure. The non HD 2500 knuckle is the one to get from what I've read, and you use GMT800 wheel bearings but should be able to reuse your CV Shafts. I'd plan on getting an alignment when you're done with it
I hate it when someone tails me that close...I guess that is my OCD. Enjoyed the video!
yeah, it happened like 2x that day from different poeple
LT if we replace dic brakes on a 1999 6.5 4x4 to dic do have to weld the caulper breaker on. To make it work right. Thanks rob.
no, not really. they make a lot of bolt on kits
I have been messing with all this and all the gmt800 guys say the 11 Duramax hydro boost and master as an upgrade. Takes one stud being ground off or an extra hole in the firewall to fit
Great job! are you planning getting rid of the IFS or just changing the spindles and front brakes?
a S.A.S.! yea! that'd be neat!
...
be funny to run a REALLY wide front axle, for you know... that BULL DOG STANCE! muahahaha!
Even though no one asked im gonna share my opinion. I really enjoyed the video! U are a great host and are clear and calculated and organized and the video was put together nicely. With that said, i believe overall this was kind of a downgrade. You removed a legendary, strong, commonly available axle that is the dimensions it is for a reason, for an axle that is less so in all those ways. I understand the disc brakes are nice. But they make conversions. If i were you i would have just got a 14BFF rear out of a 01-06 HD truck that already has disc, ur gear, and traction device of choice *from the factory* and then just put wheel spacers if it bothers you that much. Just my 2 cents.
Nothing wrong with an opinion! Sure, the 14 bolt gets a lot of love, and while I could’ve swapped one in from a GMT800 like you suggested, it still wouldn’t be wide enough and I don’t use wheel spacers if I can avoid them. The Express Dana 70 isn’t as common I’ll give you that, but it has an identical size 10.5” ring gear as the Corporate 14 bolt, is still a full floater, and also had a “from the factory” traction device, and it’s the exact width I was after without using spacers. I believe the Dana 70 has LARGER axle shafts with 37 splines, and the only thing the 14 bolt has this Dana 70 doesn’t is a pinion support bearing. While the 14 bolt is as you say legendary, I disagree that the Dana 70 was weaker or a downgrade.
good stuff
Well you do have a tick welder just do a small fill weld on the broken bleeder and well a bolt to it and it will come out
yeah, I could mess with it and get it out probably, just didnt wanna mess with it yet
Any modifications to the hard brake lines? Or did the new banjo bolt flexible brake lines attached directly to them?
Had a 97 GMC Suburban 2500 SLT for years. Always hated those rear drums! After 11 years of ownership the combination valve went bad hanging up the shoes and warping the drums. Not much fun changing them.
Could you just do a proportioning valve and keep the MC you have?
I have been stuck on gmt800 front brake conversion with my 1997 Suburban k1500 and suspension rebuild using AWD Astro knuckles for months now
Why Astro knuckles?
I got my GMT 800 14 bolt Full Floater with disc brakes for $260 from a LKQ pick a part boneyard. My Suburban is the same blue 1999 K2500 w/ 6.5 diesel. Also has the GMT 800 brake conversion up front. Looks like you're near Saratoga Springs on Utah Lake. We are constantly blowing by there between our ranch in SW Montana and our home in Fullerton, CA. Should hook up and compare notes. P.S. Just installed Cunningham bronze bushings on the driver's door and they are the bomb.
Who is saying that track width will effect turning radius or tracking?... If the rear axle is square to the front, it will track straight. Turning radius is a product of the distance between the front axle and the rear plus the steering angle available. Track width does not effect any of this...
Calipers take more volume of fluid than the old wheel cylinders so pedal will feel softer than before, but work just as good nonetheless.
Now do a solid front axle swap. 👍
Genuine question, what would be the advantage of this? Does it depend on the intended application of the vehicle?
C 3500hd trucks of the same year had large disk brakes. I believe the hydra boost and master cylinder would a direct bolt in.
I'm gonna look into this!
Need to get those 4 piston monster calipers from the 2019s ;) I know a guy with a write up.
Really what's the link bro these gmt400 brakes sucks I was going to go little shop brakes or Wildwood but it's a couple grand
Gmt800s only for the 4 piston as far as I know. Also the 4 piston isn’t night an day, we need a bigger master cylinder to make it super worth it.
LT im surprised you even entertained the idea that it would not track straight
I was never really worried about it, that was just a little sarcasm due to all the comments that said it wouldn't...
Can you just pull the residual pressure valve for the rear drum brakes from the master cylinder that you have now?
No, it's 10 psi for drums, rear discs need 3 psi
One thing most folks do NOT understand is that Manufacturers try their best to control production costs and keeping them minimalized, increases their profits. Thus the OPTIONS are pushed as well to increase their margins. The project you performed should , in my opinion, be standard for ALL manufacturers vehicles at minimal cost increases, as additional options.
getting close to 50k!
I know, we're almost halfway there!
Nice Tech
i just put a hydroboost from a 2013 GMT900 2500 siliverado in my 2008 2500 suburban. for mine it was a direct swap. but gmt800 guys swap the gmt900 hydroboost into their trucks too.
As long as you plug in a Range Technology dongle V4 disabler, I prefer the 2011 to 2013 Suburban’s. The 4x4’s have the Gen 4 all aluminum 320 hp V8s. They also came with a boxed frame, 5 link rear suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, front struts and the 6L80s have the much lower 1st gear than the 4l80, not to mention they’re plumbed for E85 Flex Fuel in addition to regular gas with the larger fuel injectors. RCV now makes cv axles for Chevy 1500s too. Lighter trucks are better for wheeling, that’s why Ford built the Raptor on the F150 platform.
I have that 320 HP 5.3 in my 2012 Yukon XL, it NEEDS the 6.2L
Davis Stephens Just as long as it’s not the carbon fowling direct injection LT engine that has AFM on all eight cylinders. Believe they started that in 2014. TH-cam is filled with people complaining about the new LT engines blowing up with low miles on them.
Okay if it's 4:10 in the rear is it 4:10 in the back or is it like 409 or is at 4:11 in the front or if it's 4:10 in the front do you think I could run 4:11s in the rear
My question is, I have a 2000 Chevy k3500 OBS with rear drums, what axle would I have to swap in to have rear disk brakes!?
the GMT800 10.5 14 bolts are plentiful and have rear disc brakes... or you could do the Dana 70 like I did, it also has discs
Nice!!
Why not a Dana 60 front axle swap?
Why was the (source of the rear brakes) Express van's master cylinder not a candidate?
I don't think the vans had hydroboost?
I just didnt do enough research to be honest. everything I saw said the GMT800 master cyl would bolt right on, but thats only with a vacuum booster. I'll have to see if the same rear express master cylinder has the right pattern to bolt onto my hydraboost
How did you get away without adding an adjustable metering block? Or are you relying on the abs to handle that for you? I thought anytime you swapped rear drum for disc this needed to be done.....
The brake will be addressed when I do the different master cylinder, but for now it just kinda works
I put a Wilwood MC on mine and it’s still squishy.
Are you gonna get rid of that 14B?
Abs has a bleeding valve on the side under a black rubber cap.
I did find and bleed the ABS using that little bleeder port with limited success
So are all gmt800 vacuum brakes F/R compatible with gmt400’s?
On the vacuum booster style, i do believe so, as long as you match your truck, as in 1/2 ton for 1/2 ton, 3/4 to 3/4, just need the adapter for the front brake line as the GMT400 is larger, or acquire the proper line nut and flare it in
it appears that most GMT800 master cylinders will fit onto a GMT400 vacuum booster, but there are a few different size bores in the GMT800 family, so you'll want to make sure you pick the right one
Disc brake dana 70 conversion cost more than suburban?
Is that a Schwinn Boundary bike hanging on the wall.
schwinn something, not sure on the model... picked it up from Walmart
Are you getting used to the tailgaters in Utah, like the guy in the white car behind you at 60 mph?
don't know if I'll ever get used to that. for some reason on that road, it seems people always wanna cruise at least 75mph
I thought brake proportioning was done in the abs module not the master.
you are correct, but apparently there are differences in the master as well... or so says the internet
The OBS no longer triggers your OCD...
👍🏻✔👨🔧💯
Get some motion race works valve covers.
Get rid of the steering rag joint and add a 36 spline 3/4 x 1inch DD steering u joint. My steering is as tight as new
yup, definitely will do that
Hope you remembered to tighten that master.
Haha… yes I did
I didn’t even know Dana made 70’s. How long have I been out of touch?
Dana 70 has been in GM trucks since 1973