Time to Solid Axle Swap the OBS Suburban!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2021
- It's time to start the solid axle swap in my K2500 Suburban project, but it might not be what you thought! When it comes to choosing an axle to swap into your project, there can be tons to choose from, but the one thing I wanted was something with a little more width than the 14 bolt full floater that came in the truck. I still wanted to use a full floating axle, but it needed to be around 70 inches wide, and the Dana 70 from 2003 to 2005 express 3500 vans was just the ticket! It also has disc brakes, a limited slip diff, and the correct 4.10 ratio to match the front! Can't wait to get this under the OBS Suburban, but first there is a little rust I've got to deal with, and the spring perches are in the wrong spot! Thankfully, we've got the tools to deal with both of those issues!
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I cant wait to get this axle underneath the Suburban! Thanks for watching guys, it's much appreciated!
Love your builds...Think that Blue with the Silver on that Suburban is a great color combination.
Also, Does PowerNation still own that awesome truck, Lo N Slo?
Differential looks fine
It's only ultra rare while you're looking for one. Once you have it, you'll find a ton for super cheap.
I was looking for one of those for something I had brewing. One thing you'll be able to do now is mount some humvee wheels.
the rear is narrower because it does help with strait line stability. only reason on this god forsaken earth,you,,need equal wheel track. IS IF YOUR 4X4ING. IN MUD OR SAND. other than that,dont mean shit..should of gone with the 2" wider lsd disc axle. if it bothers you that much,ring some one,theres help out there,,,maybe..i have a 75 highboy,d44 high pin locker,,rear d60 lsd. which is 2" narrower. but 1" per side is fk all in the big shop..unless its your missus. then that 1" matters..eh..
yehhh,50,000 miles,,it doesnt have ebrake shoes left..well looked after.. i got a disc,lsd,4.10 diff,from a s/duty,5.4 lt.. stirling. dime a dozen..
I watched your video forever ago, since then I've been on the hunt for one of these and I finally found one at my local yard today! $250 and I'm in business.
Totally got me on the title! I thought you were about to get to your front SAS done before me! It kills me how you are on the same build path as me....feels like a competition.
My 2000 K2500 4x4 OBS CCSB needs a new (14 bolt FF) axle. After looking at cost to rebuild and upgrade to disc and watching this i decided to grab one from a totaled 2004 2500HD for $400 (58K miles, looks brand new and i get the disc brakes). I'm going to have to cut off the perches and weld on the new ones. Thanks for the inspiration to finally get this done!!! Old one is out and now measuring 3X before i tack in the new perches...
I agree. Wider rear track is so much better. Glad you are able to work on your own project for a while.
Never realized how much I liked the obs until i bought one. Awesome trucks that just keep going.
Gmt400, gmt800 is the same way.
You have just answered all my questions. What’s even better is I’ve got a 03 3500hd Chevy express with a 6.0 and a Dana 70. It has a 4l80e in pieces in my garage. I’ve got a 95 k2500 and you and I are definitely on the same page. It’s soooo annoying that the k body’s left the factory like that. Next couple weeks I’ve also taken some time away from side work and main work to do this along with the whole front end.
Just had some of my rock auto shit dropped off today. 95 k2500 reg cab long bed with 6.0 gen 3 lq4 and a beefed up Dana 70 when it’s done. I’m excited lol.
Ive been waiting for this series of videos since you first picked up the LKQ axle, you make this stuff look easy and really tempting to throw more money at my OBS. Ill be glued to the notifications 🤙🏻🤙🏻
Great video. Looking out for the installation one. As always AWESOME content!!🤗
So, I'm a gmt400 fanatic as well, I have a few of em, 1995 up, and i have every engine configuration currently except the 4.3 and the 5.0. Love em, I'd rather dump 20k into one of these than buy a new one. LOTS of good information Lawrence!! Subscribed!!
Yay suburban. Finally someone fixing thw weirdness of those trucks.
Good job, often the stuff worth having is difficult to locate.
This is pretty cool. I just completed a similar project on my Blazer: 3.42 to 3.73 upgrade from the stock 7.5 inch open diff. 8.5 inch with G80, drum to disk conversion, and about three inches of additional track width. That three inches makes it look waaaay better. Also, I just "sent it" on stock bearings (changed out axle seals and bearings, though) :-D
Thanks for pointing out one of the biggest and weirdest design quirks of those Suburbans. Glad to see you picking up your projects again!
It's not just the suburbans.
LT, I recently opened up my 12 bolt that had been sitting outside for several years. I got as much water as lube out! Since it was well sealed I believe it was condensation. Fortunately it had not resulted in any damage.
Thanks for doing this particular series. I like the OBS suburban and have been considering trying to find one. The axle swap you are doing gives me insight into some of the things I may want to consider as I decide what my long trip vehicle will be.
Glad you like them!
This is the same problem on the ford Econoline vans. 2” spacer was a cheap temporary correction for now. Great content and keep it up!
I have a 93 Chevy k1500 short bed, I bought a 2004 2500hd for $2500 installed the 6.0 4l80e to my np241c wired it with Terminator X Max. Sold the push button transfer case a passenger door and Fender brush guard, remove the front differential spindles hubs rotors and the rear end, hauled the rest to the scrap yard. Sold the 350 TBI & 4L 60e all said and done I have $700 in a 6.0 4l80e 14 bolt full float G80 locker 410 gear matching front differential spindles rotors hubs, still running my 14-bolt semi float with Detroit truetrac and 488 for now. Anyway" something to think, might can save you a buck. ✌
The axle width is addressed differently on the lighter 9.5 c-clip 14 bolt and the 1/2 ton 10 bolt. The 2wd trucks used a narrower rear ended with shorter 5 lug axles, and the wider 4wd rearend with 6 lug axles. Some heavy 1/2 tons got the 9.5 14 bolt with 6 lug, and I have one. The 454SS short bed got the only 9.5 14 bolt with 5 lug and same width as the 10 bolt.
The reason for the OBS Suburban to have the 10.5 full float 14 bolt is the 454 engine. In a pickup, it would only be in a 3500 spec truck. A typical 2500 would have the 9.5 14 bolt with c-clip 8 lug axles and brakes equal to a HD brake square body 1/2 ton.
I’ve sold enough axle shafts, gearsets, diffs, and related parts and jobs to know.
The 10.5 axle was produced in 2wd track width, dually track width, and cab and chassis width. They didn’t make it in the same width as the 1/2 ton 4wd axle.
I’m sticking with the ‘88 to ‘98 trucks and carryover trucks like this Suburban.
lots of good info there
One last tidbit. The 2wd axle width for the ‘88 to ‘98 rearend is the same for the square body trucks, but the axle seats for the ‘73 to ‘87 housings are on a narrower measurement.
The holdover ‘88 to ‘90 square body K5 Blazers and Suburbans got the stronger 30 spline axles in the 10 bolt 1/2 ton rears with the 7/16 wheel studs like all the older 4wd trucks. A person can upgrade a weaker 28 spline diff to 30 spline with the correct choice of parts or a diff change.
I'm not sure what the kids are saying these days, but this thing's gonna be raaaaaad 😎
Fuckin miiinnntt
Im 34 i just say thats really cool lol
GM guys are using the word Janky a lot .
Wish I would have known you were looking for one! I've got exactly what you bought and I'm only 4 and a half hours away from you! Your channel is great, thanks for the great content!
A loonng time ago..
I was told that "tracking" was the reason for the difference in axle widths. Done on purpose by Chevrolet engineers.
Fyi. For what its worth.
Like the content. Keep it up.
I have heard that by a few people now... I'd love to know their logic behind the decision
@@LawrenceTolman im just guessing because it was 15 plus years ago that im thinking back. It was trying to help issues caused by The "IFS" ..
But on a side note.
Under heavy compression the front IFS would tuck inside the fenders. The rear axle has to be fixed in a narrow width to clear the body or bed. Sound reasonable to you?
Love it, have a 93 k2500 burb as my daily and I can't stand that stance either lol.
Finally the Suburban!!!!!
Nice to see you again LT. Used to watch you on powernation. Glad to see things are going well.
Hey, thanks
Man i thought you had finished on the tv scene, im glad i found your own content on you tube.
thanks for stopping by!
@@LawrenceTolman i couldn't get your powernation content from the website due to being in Australia at least i can get all your stuff on youtube. 👍
Very Nice!! ive put this same axle in my 1500 express minus the LSD but with the 410 over the 373 ....
🎶 I got it one piece at a time 🎶
Buying a 96 4dr Tahoe this coming week. Excited. Long term plans are 60/14b (NBS 14b for the slightly wider width & factory disc) and 37s. Short term? Clean it up, fix some rust... drive it!
I am pretty sure the reason lots of trucks have a narrower track in the rear than in the front comes down to lateral weight transfer and oversteer. If the lateral weight transfer in the rear is limited because the front track is wider, the front outside tire will reach its traction limit first and the tendency of the vehicle will be to understeer, which is generally considered more predictable and tolerable (read: safer) than oversteer for your average driver. This is also very noticeable in some older Ford vans when you are following one.
At least this is the best explanation I have found.
Huh… never heard of that one before
I think it’s just a 4whl thing, I’ve seen it in just about everything with a solid axle. 89 suburban the front axle is actually off center to the drivers side for drive shaft angle reasons if you get behind one driving down the road you will see it immediately
I have been wanting to swap axles on my truck for a while now. I know all about the rare thing. I've been trying to find Hummer H3 Alpha front and rear axles for my Colorado. They have 4.11 gears and e lockers. The front dif is very similar to the one in my Colorado but the H3 Alpha had cast iron due to the locker. The rear is wider and has disc breaks on it. Love your channel keep up the great work.
Man i love LT's videos. he doesnt do the same thing to every truck. and he gets finiky about the right things. this rear end is beeeefff. good going finding gold. no worried about NE rust. i got my LQ4 and 4l80e from a 2500 express van too. took it down and outside the surface the engine looks pretty good. whomever had it took care of it at least as far as the basics. send it brother! then cut the back end off. Suburbalanche rides on!
What year express van?
@@PaulA-ky6bv 2007. 2500 hd
@@ZackNakazora1 thanks
I’m looking at some newer 3/4 ton suburbans with the 6.0L vortec. Great video
Gmt900
LT, loving the new hair do! Way to embrace i brother You wear it well!
I enjoyed your episodes on PowerNation so I subbed.
Awesome, thank you!
Great content as always! Don’t worry the TH-cam algorithm will randomly pick you one day and the channel will take off.
New York miles are like dog years.
I always try to avoid parts and auction cars from New York. I actually have a 99 Suburban that is completely rotted out underneath and it was a NY truck! (Luckily, I bought it for the interior.)
@@gshelton
Probably not as bad as Detoilet. Spent the worst year of my life there. The 'snow trucks' don't plow anything. The plows are just counter balance for them dumping 2-3" thick of rock salt as they drive down the highway..
Then, even after the snow melts in spring, the salt still comes back up from the cracked roads and seeps into anywhere it can. Life expectancy is 3yrs for a new car.! Motor City!! ..because that's all that'll be left. The motor.
96 c 2500 semi floater 14"
shell givn 2 me.... put a eaton detroit loker... new axles n erythn...4:88...
put n a 97 gmc t400... 7" lift
hardest parts to find wer brake hardwer... handmade some stuff
new 14bolt perchz used... BnM cover. looks great... runs great👍🔥
God bless. i know LT isnt a small guy. but that Diff is HUGE. Ive worked on R160s he and I could palm in one hand ... beef
Yah back on the Suburban!!! LT I don't know why people need to tell you how to build your truck? It your you build it the you want to!!!!!!
Lawrence, good video. Anything from New York is taking a chance on buying metal that has been sitting at the bottom of the ocean after 5+ years
It is actually for traction. Ford did the same thing . It gives fresh tread contact on almost half the rear tire as you travel in lose or muddy ground
Only a minimal amount though.
WAIT A DAMN MINUTE, AFTER ALL THESE MONTHS I NEVER REALIZED LT IS FROM POWERNATION???
thats me!
Lmfao
Wow, I got a 14 bolt FF for my 1986 C20 2WD from a same year Suburban. I sandblasted and painted mine and it wasn't nearly that rusty! I hope you wire wheel and slap a coat of implement paint on that thing.
If the vehicle is 4x4 they do that to keep the front and rear tires from going in the same track.
That water inside is from sitting either outside in the rain or in a building that sweats a lot when the weather changes. Over the years, because they drain all fluids before storage, the insides of engines and whatnot can actually collect water right out of the air. And then rust.
Tip
Always check that the crown wheel retaining fasteners are properly torqued.
Nothing destroys a diff faster than a bolt dropping into the planetary gears or the pinion.
BROTHER, you need a tool sponsor. Cold cut saw and a plasma cutter asap haha
I know, right?
Blazer and suburbans were like that in the previous generation as well. And always sat ass end low..
They do it to accommodate dual wheels on other models that they use the diff in.
The other advantage to this swap is you will be able to get an OX locker for the D70 whereas you can't get one for the 14 BFF. I prefer the OX over the other selectables since it has the drive out plug in case the cable gets fubar. Any of the others your straight up SOL if something goes wrong.
It already has one of the best OE posi diffs made, the Dana Power Lock.
@Jimmy Jones & the Kool-Aide Crew
If that's the case a G80 is "sufficient ".
Nice!!!
Everything in upstate NY rots away from the rock Salt. New trucks rot out fenders and cabs with in a few yrs thru the harsh winters up there. I live in northeast Pennsylvania and try to find used parts for my project truck from Southern states below the rust belt area.
Sandblast and paint?
Should mark the sdjusters and measure the backlash before disassmbly when you plan to reuse the original r +p. Put it back as close to as it was as possible. Ideally you want the same contact on the original install.
yeah this is the case for basically every vehicle except the Postal LLV!
I agree. I absolutely hate the way the narrower axle in the back looks. It looks almost as bad as the Carolina squat.
I live in New York about an hour up from the city. Where did you end up getting the rear from?
Never knew a Dana came with threaded side adjusters like a Corp 14 bolt.
yep! makes backlash a lot easier to set
I’m having trouble finding a c&c rear end for the 88-98 3/4 trucks
Had no idea the front and back were off that much. It’s going to look great. 👍 New York ?? Lol
Maybe they launched boats with it and hence the rust inside. It's tough to keep them sealed perfectly
do not,,drive thru water,with a hot axle,,it sucks in water..4x4 guru..
The narrow rear helps it steer better.
Smaller turning radius. Yep. Wide rear end will mess up your u turn.
Correct its for turning radius.
If I knew you were looking for one, I have one from an 05 Express I'm parting out in Nebraska not nearly as rusty...
Good choice on the super 70, but personally I think the dodge 11.5 AAM would’ve been a getter choice and easier to come buy only about 3-500 bux and is 5” wider, better locker “factory true trac style”, bigger axle tubes, and the only modifications needed is new spring perches the shock mounts line up great. You’ll need to shorten the driveshaft and I like that the calipers are on the rear vs the front of axle and the rear brakes are bigger than the GM.
The only two disadvantages of the dodge axle is (which doesn’t bother me any)
1- the lug studs are 9/16-18 and I couldn’t find any studs with the correct knurl size to bring it back to M14.5x1.5 but their is a company that makes 9/16-18 Gm style lugs for factory wheel covers.
And
2- the hun bore is bigger on dodge than GM so factory wheels won’t fit unless you bore the wheel bigger or take the hubs to a machine shop and have them cut down on a lathe
Those two are only a issue if using factory wheels if ur using aftermarket wheels like me it won’t be a issue.
Oh and you can’t run 16’s anymore you’ll need to run 17”s
I think the one reason why I would like the Dodge AAM is for the helical limited slip, those are badass. however, I think the different wheel center bore would be a deal killer for me
I found a Dana super 70 out of a Chevy express 3500 in the wrecking yard, dual piston calipers and emergency brake. I had to re-gear it from 3.73 to 4.10 to match my kingpin D60. Track width is within a quarter of an inch between front and back, much better than the 14 bolt. Cheers! 👍😎
hey thats good to know for the width on the front in case I wanna SAS using a D60 kingpin!
@@LawrenceTolman: most definitely! The Super 70 uses adjustors instead of shims on the carrier... made regearing a little easy compared to a standard Dana axle...
Oh... & the rebuild kit is the same as a Dana70HD so getting parts isn’t much of a problem. The only problem is I don’t think anyone makes a rock crawler diff cover for the super... I made mine with a welded & modified & machine Crane 60 diff cover.
...oh... & the wheel studs are metric in 2006 & the old skool 9/16 wheel studs are a direct fit, no fab required.
...& I subbed
What is the part # for the ring and pinion set you bought for it? I've been looking for a set but everyone I talk to says not available.
@@jonbailon9098: I re-geared my axle a couple years ago so I’m a little rusty here. The part number is going to depend on the gear ratio, as much as anything else. I got mine from Yukon Gear, check out Yukon.
Edit: I ordered a gear set & kit for the Dana 70 HD, nothing was listed for the Dana Super, but the bearings & seals all worked the same.
👍😎
02:00 GM did that for stability... Even the 70's Blazer had it and it was more pronounced
II have an 01 suburban 2500 with an 8.1 and the 14 bolt, I thought about swapping it to a 1 ton axle, but between wanting to keep my air ride without a ton of extra work and finding out how hard it is to get what I already have, I decided not to
I got one of these sitting in my back yard. Not sure what I was gonna use it for.
I got a 1999 2500 suburban with a 6.5 diesel that needs some work. Im up in the air what to do with it. I also have a high pin dana 44 8 lug front axle that I was thinking to put in it. I'm watching what you do to your for ideas. Your right about the rear axle width it looks like crap to say the least.
I run a 2.5 billet wheel spacer on the rear of my rock crawlers 14 bolt . I ran 44 tsl on it and now run Ori struts and 42 sticky treps . I have stood the rig in its nose and come right down on the rear with all the rigs weight ...lol... I'm pretty sure wheel spacers are 100% fine . Using a wheel spacer isn't any different than using a wheel with the same spacing . The only negative us you now have 16 lugs to check but once properly torqued they never really loosen .
I agree, they are way more strong than people give em credit for. I wouldn't actually be worried about em falling off, but when possible I still prefer to not run em...
@@LawrenceTolman Yeah they don't offer anymore than about 4 inch bs on the allied bead locks so spacers were it . I needed some extra cheap stance on my tow rig to get the 35s out looking a bit wider after putting in an aftermarket bumper .So I out on some 2 inch eBay hub centric spacers to push out the stock Ram wheels . I took the wheels off after a few hundred miles to see if the lugs were tight and they hadn't changed since install ...lol...but I always find myself pushing in the tires each drive to make sure . The big issue for me is 16 lugs have to come off every brake job it's like two sets of tires .
The Track width being Wider in the front helps with traction by not being in the same path rear contacts fresh ground
Also turning radius. All rwd trucks had wider from axles.
I've been looking at the "12 bolt" Super70 for awhile now...for a future Jeep project..came across a couple out here in NV ... However it seems that I can't get a straight answer on gearing .. I would need taller gears..but it seems you have to get factory gears because of design with those threaded adjusters instead of shims which are only 373 or 410 which cost is an insane 600 ish ... anyone have insight on taller gear sets? Or will a standard d70 gear set work?
Gmt400s need solid front axles on 3/4 and 1 tons nuff said.
I have a 04 Suburban 2500 8.1 and they still have this problem. Mine has aftermarket wheels that are wider than factory and they really stand out like a sore thumb. The rears are still under the body, and the fronts are hanging out like a low rider lol
That’s rust free in the rust belt lol
I have a 70HD under my 99 TJ ×T A Detroit locker and 4.88 gears
i have a d70 hd in pieces with a welded centre,fkn useless..5.46 gears,std,,tow truck diff..must of been fun..
Hey brother I have an OBS Tahoe 1500 4x4 will that same rear end you used for your Suburban for for my Tahoe?
We need to talk. I have the same truck. It is even the same color. The only differences are that mine is a 6.5L and it has dual rear wheels. I am planning on doing the same swap, but using a dually Dana 70 4.10 locker. I have so many questions for you.
the tires stick out more on k2500 and k3500 because of the stock torsion keys, but SAS is better than the stiff ride of tightening torsion keys anyways.
nice
Love it! Would love to attempt this on my 99 Tahoe Z71 utility. Solid axle 2 door ftw! Say, where did you get that sweet welding bench from?
I believe it was from weldtables.com, their 2x3 foot model
Hey LT I got a question I got a 1994 Chevy K 2500 with the 14 bolt full float in the rear that has 410 gears I'm trying to figure out what the gear ratio is on the front but you know what I could be
Hi LT, I need an advice.
I have 2003 Escalade as a future project. I'm planning to upgrade rear axle. I have 2 donor Silverado: 2500 with G80 full floating 4.10 and 1500HD with G80 same floating 3.73 axles.
This is not a racing truck, just street fun project, maybe daily driver. I have old school turbo kit, LQ9 and LQ4, 4L80. Not sure about TC (probably stock), low RPM cam probably (TN by BTR).
Question: Should I stay with 3.73, or go with 4.10?
So since the unvaling of the squareb frody to just about the present 4x4 chevy's either IFS or solid axle the front axle has always be wider or at least it looked wider , which it is for the sake of arguement . unfortunatley chevy came up with rearend (front mutaulated ) rear steer that was wider than the front . i think that engineer was taken by the MEN IN BLACK 😮. Anyhow my spelling sucks but the whole point to
this comment was that when i was looking out of that same bus i thought the trucks were bent or had an accident but that would suggest that every truck had an accident, then someone said these chevy trucks are just BAD A... look the track is set up so when you go through a mud hole the rear tires dont fallow the front tire ruts which keeps the rear from sinking which in turn keeps the truck going through the rut RIGHT PAST THE FORDS. Oh did i say that out loud ? love your channel bro
Dang i have the gt5 sitting in my shop right now. 4.10 with disk breaks.
I have a 1996 Suburban LT 7.4 liter . Is the Dana 70 better than the 14 bolt or is it just the look? I apologize but I just bought my Suburban and trying to find ways to make it better ???
My take is that they did it because it was the same rear axle for dual rear wheels? IDK.
good channel.much better than Power Nation.Please do a rebuild on a tiny Toyota engine. No one does those..
Is the narrower rear track width the same for the trucks as it is for the 'Burb? My 2000 OBS CCSB C2500 truck doesn't seem to look like that to me. Just wondering...
As far as I know, they are the same if it’s the full floater 14 bolt. Should measure about 65” hub to hub
Got me but still a cool project
If this is as rare as you say, I hope you don’t twist the splines off. Neat idea matching widths to fill the wheel wells. I’d just of gone with spacers.
The Dana 70s are easy to find if I ever need replacement parts, it’s just the combo of 4.10 and limited slip that’s impossible to get.
So is that a gov lock or a real posi?
Dors this sub have any lift/keys turned?
it had stock keys, but they were cranked up a tiny bit
Interesting take on swapping a 14 bolt to a Dana 70. I have a semi float 14 bolt in my K1500, I’m wondering how the 2 axles compare for off road use.
Night and day difference going from a semi floating to a full floating.
The 14 bolt full float is a good bit stronger than the D70. It's being done just to make the front and rear track width nearer the same. To me it wouldn't be worth the time, money, or effort to do it, but that's just me.
LT what yr discbreak rear end swap is best for the obs (GMT400) 96-99 Chevy Dually?
I never researched dually widths so I'm not sure how much wider it would be, but the most common would be the AAM 11.5" from the 2001 to 2010 2500HD. Duramax trucks would have a 3.73 and gas trucks usually had the 4.10 ratio
the old S10 ZR2 pick ups and blazers were horrible for narrow rear track width also.
does anyone know how I would be able to tell if a van has this Dana 70 or the semi float version from looking around at the van?
like RPO codes or anything else that would make finding one in the junkyard easier?
Easiest way I know is to look at the hubs, if they stick out and have 8 bolts holding the axle to the hub, it’s a full floater
@@LawrenceTolman how weak would you say the semi float Dana 60 van axles are? are they also 70 1/2" wms to wms?
The body could be narrower up front. A different track width is good for traction anyways.
I'm getting ready to do this, I'm doing it to my 2500 crew cab short box. What adapters did you have to use to get the brake likes hooked up? I was thinking of cutting the brake line back and using a flex line
Also dod you get a cut away version of the axle or a normal?