Maurice Lacroix? Are they even a real watchmaker?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มิ.ย. 2022
- Today we have a beautiful Maurice Lacroix Pontos Grand Guichet on the bench, with a heavily modified ETA 2892 movement inside it. Join us for a full service of this watch as we try to decide whether Maurice Lacroix is a legit manufacture or more of a fashion watch company!
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Nice one. For the record, I don’t care whether you’re working on an old or new watch. I’m watching for history, variety, technique, problem solving, the dog barks, the kid interruptions (always welcome, seriously), the ultrasound noise, and your personality … in that order. Have a good one!
🤔 Not sure if that's really a compliment? :)
I'm always amazed with, and enjoy hearing, your knowledge of the movements and the history of the manufacturers. It helps give the watches character. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks, Andy, that's very nice to hear! I love watches so I do try to add a little about the brands and the history behind them :)
That additional module with the date and sub seconds complication is a work of genius.
I really appreciate just how clever this is. Definitely a watch that I would like to add to my
collection.
Thanks for showing this to us.👍
A very informative, educational, and enjoyable video. Please don't hesitate to continue to feature more modern watches whenever you come across one that you think is interesting. I really appreciate all the history and background information you provided about the watch brand and the modifications they made to the movement. Also, you are getting really, really good at macro photography!
Thanks so much, Michael! I think I'm getting better at photography, but I now film most of my footage in 4k, which allows for nice macro shots :)
Love watching videos on watches they are pieces of art and wish I knew how to service a watch .... please keep up the great work
Excellent! I really appreciate your pointing out the pitfalls in assembly and disassembly - if I ever come across this movement I’d rather know about these before I have to deal with them. And your understated humor is perfect!
Ha ha. Wife likes long nose hair. I just pressure washed mine with coffee when you said that.
😂
😂😂😂
I have a Maurice Lacroix, it was a gift in 1987-88 I always wondered whether it was a chinese clone of something more expensive...But never found the original so to say..... and its still running. Great to see this one in detail
Thank you Stian for another fascinating video. I'm always amazed at the precision and harmony of movement involving such small parts (I'm even more in awe at how you can manipulate those!). I'm fairly new to the channel, so I don't know whether you've mentioned or explained prior... but how are all those parts actually fabricated - would be interesting to see a "How it's Made" on that ! Until next week...
Ciao!
Tony
Hello Tony, thanks for that! Nowadays parts are mostly manufactured by CNC milling/turning and EDM, and some parts are stamped out of sheet metal, such as the thin plates on the dial side. I think there are some videos out there that show this nicely :)
A great watch service Stian great to see that you haven't been spending too much time on your knees lately and still no trouble in paradise. Keep well from NZ
Another enjoyable video from one who makes the whole process so interesting. Humorous comments lighten the intensity of this kind of work and skill. A lovely watch this one is. I'd be happy to own one. Thanks for the journey.. Kudos
Such a good day to slowly enjoy and learn to one of your excellent videos!
Love this one ! Big date are another kind of complication, and this is a very nice movement, final accuracy is perfect !! At the end this watch is nice and shinny !! Thank for sharing Stian !!
The highlight of my Saturday - another VWS video. Very entertaining and informational as always.Thanks so much!!
Thanks so much, Milan, happy to oblige 😊
Super clear and amazing video!
Doesn’t matter how many of these I watch - still intriguing, and I’ll never figure out how he can re-assemble all those parts.
Nice to see a great professional at work.
I cant say if Maurice LaCroix are a real watchmaker or not being a watch wearer & not a watch builder.. But i have a ML 6188 Pontos Valgranges black dial chronogragh with a 7750 Valjoux movement, I think it's beautifull & very well made if like all chrono's a little thick. Great content as ever stian.
ML is legit indeed and I think they offer some very fine watches for a very competitive price compared to some of their competitors. This watch looks fabulous to me!
Stian, I get so much enjoyment and knowledge from your videos, and your humor and editing makes the videos adds some laughter as well. Question: How often do older and finer watches need to be serviced if they seem to be running? I really like this watch because of the clear back. However, I'd be worried if the crystal should break. I've been catching up on your older episodes and your channel for me is a much watch. Thank you Stian for sharing your knowledge to your subscribers.
Hello Bob, there's really no danger of the crystal breaking, it is in fact much better protected against your skin than the top crystal. It is made of sapphire and is thus also very strong.
Mechanical watches should generally be serviced every five years, and that is mostly preventative maintenance. Which is why most watch owners do not do so... But waiting until the watch stops or starts running erratically will allow minor issues which would never develop with more frequent service to turn into major issues that will require replacing parts, and that's when it really becomes expensive.
@@VintageWatchServices Thank you for the info Stian. That is interesting about the back crystal. It is so cool to see the inside of the watch.
Thank you for another awesome video! Always happy to see that little blue dot on my phone when you post new content!!
Very cool to hear, Walther :)
Great watch, great presentation.
Thanks.
Hi Stian, loved that video. A lot of parts to that watch!, you have a great understanding of movements. Nose hair is the most common hair found in watches!, 😩. Well done and thank you. Adrian
Apparently no watchmakers groom their nose hair properly! 😂
Most instructive and enjoyable video, thank you. I have a Maurice Lacroix automatic with manual alarm from the 80’s that I absolutely love but I’ve always felt slightly ashamed that I couldn’t afford one of the big names - you’ve made me feel better about it. Social insecurity is so flaming old-fashioned.
Thanks Albert :) Maurice Lacroix is indeed a nice brand, having built up from a relatively modest beginning. They offer very nice watches at affordable price points and also some more expensive watches with some pretty unique complications.
@@VintageWatchServices Certainly one of the underrated brands, of which there are several. Favre-Leuba being another in my opinion.
I did have some social insecurities like this; I then at the airport while people watching I noticed that everybody has a quirk like that. The man with the best watch, I noticed had a whole in his socks; the best dressed man was wearing a cheap watch. The best dressed woman had an awful smell to her and the most good looking lady had ear wax noticeably sticking out of her ear. Never felt social anxiety afterwards.
@@bubarowe I must investigate that watchmaker, thank you.
Great video and awesome work ! Wow 👍
Nice. I have the Maurice LaCroix Cinq Aquilles (5 hands). Would be interesting to see one of those apart. Good vid. Keep at it!
Worked today (Saturday). Now I can relax with my weekly Stian treat! 😃😃😃
Excellent. You do make me laugh Stian. Nice watch as well.
You never hear much about Maurice Lacroix, but I got a Masterpiece double retrograde with the ML191 movement nearly a decade ago. It’s still running strong to this day.
That's a very nice watch!
14:45 Oh my gosh I died! Haha, first video I've seen of yours, and it certainly won't be the last! Subbed!
😁👍
I admire your precision.
Thanks Stian, once again you provide the perfect accompaniment to my Saturday morning French toast. That’s really a pretty nice watch for what, I’m sure is a reasonable price. Looks sort of like an ALS, pardon the blasphemy, but I don’t have much use for a dress watch.
See you next week.
Another fascinating addictive video. Boy do I wish I could do that. I even put the float upside down in the bowl of the carburettor on the mower and wondered why it wouldn’t work. All the best Stian. Mick🇬🇧
😁👍
You can buy those for under 1000$ second hand...
Quite good price thinking it housing a modified ETA2892 with nice decorations inside.
I've found an intermediate wheel from a ML movement in my soup. Nice vid as always. Thanks
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I'd like to say that this is not a Pontos, but a Masterpiece Grand Guichet. I own one of these, the same exact watch, which is on my wrist right now as it has been for the last 18 years of my life. It's a wonderful timepiece, great moments lived with it. Thank you very much for your review, really appreciated.
Thanks for watching and for the info!
I have just bought this watch after having seen this video, great job by the way. I found it NOS for less than the pvp of three plastic MoonSwatches, so I guess I did pretty well 😊. The dial is made out of 925 silver, apparently. Congratulations for your great channel, I'm a subscriber now.
Wow, that indeed sounds like a great deal, Francisco! And welcome to the channel :)
Good sense of humor.
Cup of tea, feet up, relax and be informed and entertained. Can't go wrong. 👍🏻🙂
Excellent as ever
Thank you
What an interesting piece. I might try to add one to my collection just to get the big date feature for a fraction of an A. Lange & Sohne piece. Thanks for sharing.
This is a very cool watch in my view and certainly a very good option for a dress watch!
great work us allways✌️👌
I have to say this was a pleasant surprise... the main plate is partly snailed and perlage is applied.... even the dial side is decorated. I thought you need to buy a Rolex to get that ;)
Yep, this is a legit manufacture watch 💪
Interesting, Stian. I will say no more, Angelino summed it up nicely - perfectly, in fact. #thanksAngelino.
Good job
The watch is very handsome. Beautiful dial. Very simple but very attractive.
Superb Sir!
I love the design of indicies.
Every time I hear the ultrasonic cleaner, it takes me back to resting with my push-bike at a certain acute road junction on the narrow back roads near St Remy de Provence in France when cicadas were making a heightened throbbing sound in unison. We have cicadas here in Qld, but I have yet to hear them reach a crescendo.
I think you must be one of the very few human beings having positive associations with that sound, Pablo 😁
What camera are you using for your videos? Thank you for another wonderful service video!
Thanks a lot, Ian! I use the Fujifilm XT-4, as it offers a great slow motion function relative to its price.
Nice one Stian. Yes an interesting modernish watch, interesting to see the big date. Surprise the dial side had nice finishing at all, done for the watchmaker only. Till next time.
Yes, it was a very nice surprise for me to see that. It really underlines the argument that Maurice Lacroix is legit :)
Another outstanding job 👏 curious about the red case back gasket,is there a difference between them and the black gaskets?
Thanks Joshua! The red gaskets are much stiffer and create a tighter seal. They're generally only used for snap on case backs like this one. They however also require a much better fit than the black ones, as a size too small will reduce the water seal.
Forgot to ask Stian - a couple of questions: What is the reason for demagnetizing the chronograph during the restoration/repair? Also, when winding a manual watch does it matter whether you only wind in 1 continual rotation - i.e. continual clockwise rotation versus clockwise and then, counterclockwise before resuming the clockwise winding.. (I've seen both, but is one the right way and if so, why?). Thanks! Tony
Hello Tony, thanks for watching! There are a lot of sources of magnetization in our modern society, and if watch parts get magnetized that will impact the timekeeping negatively. So we always demagnetize the movement to ensure it is running as it should.
There's no real difference between winding the crown with a back and forth motion versus only in one direction, it's just a matter of preference :)
Hello, Manufacture means that they can do the hair spring too? I'm using that fix o drop in a normal jar, so what's the difference?Some very nice watch and video!
Thanks Tiberiu! The Manufacture term is a bit loosely defined, but it generally means they have the ability both in terms of skills and machinery to build watches in-house. There are extremely few brands who actually build the entire watch in-house, most take ebauches and modify them.
Fixodrop evaporates extremely fast, which is why the special jars have a very narrow opening. This makes for a smaller surface for the liquid to evaporate from. Which in turn means you have to buy new liquid less frequently.
Pearl and silver colors always look stylish.
very nice watch indeed
Does anyone have info on the "ML 137" movement? I can't find anything on the web at all about it. Thank you for!
Is there any channel - apart from most watch restorers - where there is a focus on keeping the patina on objects? Please let me know.
The separate cross date dial threw me a little until I could wrap my head around the fact that there are four distinct modes, i.e., days 1-9, 10-19, 20-29 and 30-31. I would be interested in finding out more about how the dials flip to accommodate days 30-31 or if there is manual intervention. I very much like this watch, very classy. 😀
Hello Richard, the tens cross is directly triggered by the date disc, so it flips over as it should when quick-set :)
There's an animation of the mechanism on the A. Lange & Söhne channel, the video is called "The outsize date mechanism". It's so simple, but I think it'd take me a few billion years to invent it.
@@griffn14 Thx, 👍 I actually found a better animation, th-cam.com/video/ksuOIc-Qnjg/w-d-xo.html
also on the A. Lange & Söhne channel. It is titled "Perpetual Calendar".
@@c4t4l4n4 Yes, that's a good one. Plenty of interesting animations on their channel.
I have two ML’s and they are great watches for the money. They are also a great alternative to have in the collection when don’t want to wear a higher valued piece out. Still very elegant.
Absolutely! It's a brand that has really grown into a very good option compared to more expensive watches.
Nice slo mo! :) :)
Very nice. I've seen a few of these in my travels and have sort of discounted them. No longer! A very handsome watch made even better by a master service. A great way to start off my week with a video from "Fairly Recent Watch Services".
I like this watch. I would definitely prefer it to Rolex.
Strange departure for you Stian but really interesting to see a standard ETA movement modified in this way. Looks like nasal hair could have been the problem with poor running all along. Cheers, Howard
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Hhmmm... what could the "ML" stand for in the movements new designation "ML-58" by Maurice Lacroix?
Exactly! I guess it will forever remain one of the unsolved mysteries of mankind 😁
Enjoyed this video very much: thank you Stian. Roger Federer used to be the company's ambassador (before he switched to Rolex), so they got quite some exposure in the 2000s.
I am so old that I wish all my watches had these big dates, but there is something that I never liked about them: the different hight of the two disks makes the window look cheap or at least awkward in my opinion, even on very expensive Lange & Söhne Watches. I wonder if any watch manufacturer has ever solved this problem? And I am not a fan of the Cyclops, either.
"ML"? "My Love" or the 1050st they ever sold? Cannot help you there ...
I thought about this problem and came up with this solution: Have the date window in 3 o'clock position, put the ones digits on a normal date ring but have this ring's teeth hidden below the ring so its inner edge is clean. Then put the tens digits on a small disk that rotates inside the ones ring. When the disks don't overlap, their faces can be on the same depth.
Another more cheaty solution would be to put a lens on the ones window that makes the number look like it is closer than it really is.
@@vsikifi Thank you for your most convincing solutions. Has any watchmaker overthought about this?
That's a very good idea, Ville 👍
ML on the movement probably stands for 'Maurice Lacroix. Why couldn't the 58 identy the movement modification ID?
If my children called me 'old and fat', they'd find themselves spending a night on the tiles. 😉 As for that adorable Maurice Lacroix, I'd love to wear one. Thank you for sharing your love for this watch brand. Wendi 🌻
Watching this video on the 39th of May!
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nice movement
Stian, it will be interesting to learn what you think of the movement as the brand was widely available on a UK TV shopping channel some years ago.
I think it's a nice brand which is inching upwards :)
I told my woman that the humor in these videos was fantastic. She watched one with me and apparently it was lost on her.
Oh yes, it's manly humor if at all 😁
Do you have any videos of a 2894 (2892 with a chrono module)?
Nope, I haven't worked on that one and honestly do not want to. You need a special movement holder for it, as there are some springs that need to be pre-loaded, and I don't have it. And I don't want to have it either :)
Oh that wry specialised sense of humour… gold (plated) 18K!!
Great video. You say this watch has a high beat movement. What does this mean?
Hello Nick, high beat movements tick 28800 times per hour. That means that the seconds hand moves 8 times per second and thus moves smoothly, and it also creates a bit stronger gyro effect on the balance, thus reducing the variance.
Hei Stian. Jeg har ikke hvert noe særlig inne på vintage klokker, men du anbefaler klokker med Landeron 48 urverk?
Hei Jarle, jeg synes Landeron urverk er god verdi for pengene. Ur med dem inni er ofte ganske billige og urverkene er solide og ganske lette å jobbe med.
if I had to guess I'd say there was a multi-level gear, one with 31 spokes, one with 4 stacked on top of each other so that every 10 days the top gear moves the 1,2,3,_ disc. I dunno I know JLC gave their big date to Lange and made a new one.
Do you have any recommendations for demagnetizing machines? Are you happy with the one that you use in your videos?
I'm happy with the one I use, yes. The best demagnetizing machines are very expensive, but the price of the Horotec one I have is not too bad.
I have a vintage seiko automatic cal 6139 reference number 6139- 6005 chronograph with sunburst orange dial from 1973. It was passed down from my father but quit working and can not find anyone near me to fix it and jelwery stores tell me they don’t fix watches. From what I found on my watch it is quite rare. Hope I find someone eventually to service my automatic
Sounds like you have the Pogue! It's a very nice watch, you can send me a mail at stian@vintagewatchservices.eu, then we can see what can be done about it
Stian, usually the small seconds hand would be attached to the pivot of the fourth wheel. Is there an advantage to using the third wheel instead? Btw, I think the movement was dedicated to Meat Loaf.
Meat Loaf, of course! (facepalm)
There isn't really another wheel in this movement that would be a fit for transferring the power given that they had to move the position of the seconds hand.
👍@@VintageWatchServices
Kari Voutilainen recommends ML brand for quality for money and finishing, so it must be good.😎 ML makes their own cases, and well. Other watchmakers appreciate ML Masterpiece Retrogrades.
I must be getting old. I thought and thought and wracked my brains trying to figure out how the date changer worked. And failed. When you lifted the dial and I saw the cross, then it was obvious how the tens changed. The wife will put me out to pasture soon if I'm not careful...
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Hola Stian, la estrapada que has utilizado no es la correcta puedes romper el muelle al sacar la manivela el eje es demasiado grueso, en su tiempo compre las estrapadas no 9 para el ETA 7750 no 7 para el ETA 2892 y el no 5 para el ETA 2824-2 son muy prácticas y te puden servir para algunas máquinas de ROLEX y OMEGA.
Sobre el reloj de este video ya he tenido que reparar alguno, te lías un poco con el calendario pero con paciencia se puede reparar, un saludo desde España.
Hola José, gracias por mirar! No estoy seguro de entender lo que quieres decir con la estrapada? Y la fecha se ensambla correctamente si miras el video completo :)
@@VintageWatchServices
Quiero decir que la estrapada que has utilizado son la caja antigua con el eje más grueso yo tambien la tengo, ahora hay estrapadas más modernas con el eje más fino para los calibres ETA
@@jtalensa2957 Alright, I was confused by what you meant by estrapada, but I understand now that you mean the mainspring winder? Yes, there is a special set for common ETA calibres, but using a combination as I did is fine if you don't have that set.
Why do some of the balances have nodule weights around them and others do not?
On older watches you can see this, these are timing screws for finely adjusting the center of gravity of the balance. Most balances nowadays do not have such screws as the production process and modern alloys allow for very uniform weight distribution.
Watch The master at work 👍
Please review seiko elnix movement sir 🙏
Oh, those are very rare to find! And I also don't have equipment for electronic watches...
I think this is a splendid watch - there is far too much snobbery about brands. I do like big date watches as I can actually read it. In days gone by, I did have a Skagen watch - quartz and cheap - but I did not realise it had a date for some time because it was so small - I have a JLC Reverso now with a big date though my eyesight is getting so bad that I can only just read it! Luckily as I am about to retire, the date is of limited importance.
Yep, there is indeed far too much snobbery, that's what I tried to convey with this service. I think this is a really cool and beautiful watch, and it can be had for a lot less than much less attractive watches in my view.
I'm thinking the big date is a done with a decade counter, so after 31 it will go 32, 33 etc. The user may have to reset the date at the end of every month. I'm expecting it to take the form of a cam that pushes a spring loaded pin when changing from a 9 to a 0, and the pin then finishes the 90 degree rotation. Of course, I could be wrong 😀
If so, I'd expect it to take a lot of power to push the pin, so the fact that that movement has so little power getting through might be a worry. Hopefully just in need of a service.
Well I was wrong, but the action was about what I would have expected ;-)
Good thinking :) But they indeed carried over the already near-instantaneous motion of the date disc to the tens cross, which is an elegant way of doing it!
Perhaps they could use your comment as an advertising slogan:
'Maurice Lacroix - Legit Watches'
😂👍
THANKS for the Great video and I am FIRST !!!!
Which is better, the 2824 or the 2892?
They're different 😉
97th
Stupid question from someone who just loves to watch you work. Are mechanical watches assembled by hand or is there some sort of assembly line process?
Hello Mark, that's not a stupid question :) I do not know the answer to your question in a lot of depth, but from what I know the high end brands (LeCoultre, Vacheron, Greubel Forsey etc) assemble everything by hand by one watchmaker, while the more affordable brands use robots to assemble at least parts of the watch. Swatch's Sistem51 watches are apparently completely assembled by robots.
what that 1 to 9 in the jar means? That is 9 steps to clean the watch in the ultrasonic??
It is simply the name of the solution, which is mixed 1 part solution to 9 parts water :)
So it's well made, has a fully decorated movement (even on the dial side - most volume brands aside from Rolex can't manage that) with additional instantaneous (or very near-instantaneous) big-date module, a proper steel retaining ring, blued second hand, a screwed-in dial...
Slightly clickbait title? But you've convinced me to go take a closer look at ML.
Thanks for watching! I don't really think the title is clickbait, it's a sentiment I sometimes hear from the more snobbish collectors :)
Lovely job …AGAIN👍🏻😂
Thanks Alan, Again! :)
@@VintageWatchServices 😂😂😂
Ok... You mentioned something that made me think of this question. Why hasn't the watch industry gone to Philips Head or Star screws?
Good point.
Philips head are high-torque screws; you don’t want that kind of force in a watch movement screw, either clamping it down, or trying to take it off.
There are a few reasons as others have noted, but the most important is that it's just very difficult to make those patterns in a small screw head. Watch screw heads are mostly some 0.5mm wide, thus there isn't much space for anything more intricate than a simple slot.
Отличный выбор... Браво
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Looks pretty much like my $250 Shinola from Detroit
It is annoying that the modern versions of this watch and also many other big date watches use undersized movements, so the date window is much closer to the center and the "big" digits are no bigger than on the normal single disk date in watches with proper size movement.
This one indeed has a great balance in its dial design!