I've always been of the belief that Shin was meant to be the bad guy for like 5 minutes before Toriyama was told he was too puny or no convincingly strong enough. Thus his evil smile.
It's less of an "evil" smile and more of a "smug" smile. It's often used for villain characters before their reveal, but it's not exclusive to them. Shin just thinks highly of himself, that's all there really is to it. If you think about it, the reason he's here at all is to prevent an ancient evil from being unleashed, and it's obvious from his dialogue that this is already the case in the authors (Toriyama) mind. He's not a bad guy, he's just a bit of a smug elitist at this point in the story.
I never really thought he looked creepy when he was intimidating piccolo. I always thought he looked like a smug prick. Made him constantly being surprised later funny.
Supreme Kai is such a cool character. I wish we got to see him fight more. The fact he took so much damage from Buu and still managed to keep fighting says a lot.
The whole point of Supreme kais character was for him to underestimate the z fighters so it makes sence that the Fandom doesn't hold him up as a very powerful character
Kabito was a servant not a god. But supreme Kai is between full power super Saiyan Goku from cell saga and low grade super Saiyan 2. He's by no means weak. Besides he fought better against fat buu than Gohan did..
The Supreme Kai slander is so unwarranted and unnecessary. Let’s see how well you do your job when all your coworkers literally die and leave you with nothing. Anyone who’s ever worked a shift ALONE knows the struggle 😭
@@BLUEBOYISLEDGE Even if that's the case I was just defending supreme Kai being called weak not running the universe. At his maximum he's low end super Saiyan 2 level . People act like superme Kai couldn't beat yakon or pui pui or even spopavich for that matter his character is stronger than people think.
I would comfortably put Shin at maybe Perfect Cell level. While Majin Dabura at Super Perfect Cell level. Meaning that Dabura (pre-Majin) could very well have been Shin's equal at Perfect Cell level - and polar opposite twin (Good vs Evil).
It amuses me that despite being made fun of by the characters and fans, if Shin had shown up in the Cell saga he would've been one of the strongest guys there. Still not the sharpest power escalation
This is honestly pretty interesting. In the past I would have said being about relative to the Goku who fought Cell at the start of the Cell Games was the most generous one could reasonably by about Shin's power. After watching this and seeing some arguments I hadn't considered, like Shin actually lasting a fair amount of time against Fat Buu who easily dusted Dabura who is roughly on par with Super Perfect Cell (granted, Buu didn't use the candy beam on Shin like he did with Dabura), I think either on par with regular Perfect Cell or in the vague area between Perfect Cell and Super Perfect Cell is about where Shin lands, power-scaling wise.
My impression was that Majin Buu, once released, faced characters of progressive strength. First Gohan, then Shin, then Dabura, then Vegeta, each somewhat stronger than the previous challenger.
Supreme Kai power was probably just above Piccolo. Add all the magic abilities and different techniques and you see why he was able to last a little bit with Buu.
I think Supreme Kai also knows how to use barrier. In Dragonball Super, Kaioshin and Gowasu used barrier to protect themselves and Bulma and Mai when Zamasu attack them with energy beam from sky.
Man I love these “How Strong is” videos, especially focusing on Z characters that people have been debating about for decades. While you’re on this roll, I’ve always wonder how strong Kibito & Suppopovich are compared to other members of the Dragon team, especially the Earthlings. Suppopovich wouldn’t stand a chance against any of the upper tier fighters or probably wasn’t even stronger than Krillin, but I wonder how he’d do against the late Dragon Ball characters & how would do against the fighters from the 22nd & 23rd World Tournament. Kibito is a bit of a mystery but one I’ve always really wanted to figure out.
Based on feats and context I put Spopovich probably below the level of mercenary Tao in OG Dragon Ball. I think he’d be a tough fight for 21st budokai Goku. And as for Kibito, I think it’s safe to assume he’s somewhere around Android 16 level. Above Frieza and the untrained super saiyans, but not as powerful as cell or supreme Kai. I think a fight between Kibito and piccolo would be closer than a fight between Piccolo and supreme Kai.
@@zaklopopolo4366 actually Kibito being around Android 16’s level sounds like damn good estimate & I’ve always thought Suppovich might actually be around that range of Tien from the 22nd Budokai but that may be a high ball.
What people never realize is that Shin is just traumatized by Buu and is just afraid of the "M" on all the bad guys foreheads, not their actual power level. It just reminds him of Buu and he takes it seriously.
I always thought this guy was weak after seeing how scared he was of Buu coming out. At first I thought this character would be a big deal when he shock Piccolo hand. 😂😂
Likely Toriyama couldn't decide how strong he should be and probably realized he couldn't be too strong otherwise the Z fighters wouldn't have to do anything against Buu. It's frustrating how because of the way he was hyped up during the tournament, Piccolo didn't even want to fight him, so not only did we not get to see Piccolo's current level of strength, but the hype was all for nothing in the end. It was super disappointing. The Buu saga in general felt like it was just full of moments where Toriyama was doing asspulls and/or second guessing his decisions and retconning stuff that didn't need to be, instead of being more creative with the plot.
I think he's somewhere between Piccolo and SSJ2 Gohan... Shin's presence was certainly overshadowed by the threats of Dabura and Buu, as well as his bad information gathering and terrible decisions. It made him look like less of a knowledgeable and imposing deity figure, and more like a kid who didn't do his homework (which is kinda what he actually is). But I think his power shouldn't be underestimated. It's just too bad we never actually got to see him have a *proper* fight. Oh well, he's still one of my mains in Budokai 3...
I will agree when compared to Kami, King Kai, Grand Elder Supreme Kai and Wheez yes Supreme Kai really seemed put of his depth at times. I don't know if I'd put at Piccolo's level of power because I think the moment he realize he was face to face with the God of Gods that respect for the position kicked in. But I'd say it's fair to put Supreme Kai at at least a Super Sayian in terms of power.
@@donovanbradford8231 Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't think Piccolo's forfeiture was due to him being weaker than Shin, I have other reasons for rating Shin higher. I say this as someone who doesn't by any means underestimate Piccolo, and I'm also not concrete on the matter. It's just a bit of an educated guess. In terms of Shins charactersization, yes he certainly was out of his depth. He can almost be compared to Future Trunks in a way; being the last and youngest of his group, lacking in confidence or experience, and facing bad odds. My main gripe is just that Toriyama sort of knocked him on his ass after such a cool build-up with him, and he really didn get to show off the way someone like Trunks did...
@@donovanbradford8231 Kaio was even more lost about everything. Shin by comparison is trying to help, and actually did his HW. He knew Goku was a Saiyan.
The fact Piccolo realizes Shin was the god of gods is why I think he forfeited because of the rank, rather than power level. It was the Kami in him giving respect.
OK, I watched the part about his performance against Fat Buu and you convinced me. My new opinion is Shin is stronger than Piccolo but Piccolo still forfeited out of respect anyway (because Piccolo always fights against everyone, even Freeza).
toriyama did the supreme kai so dirty, I remember when he first appeared I thought he was the villian of the buu saga or strong enough to match up with goku because he looked so menacing with that stare whole time it was a troll lol
Supreme Kai fought better against fat buu than Gohan did. He's around full power Super Saiyan Goku from cell saga and low grade super Saiyan 2 in my honest opinion he's really not that weak when he tries. But he's got a coward mentality.
Buu toyed with Shin, Gohan had just blasted Buu’s ball with all he had and wasn’t 100%, and Buu obviously used way more power against Gohan and Dabura. He did survive Buu’s explosion but he was much further away from it than Vegeta was and may have just caught the outer explosion or wind impact from it
Hey, nice vid. You made a statement around 10:40 that Kaioshin was the only living being in the universe that had fought Buu. However, later during Kid Buu saga, when Buu makes it to Otherworld and fights Pikon, North Kai reminds West Kai of who Kid Buu is and reminds him that West Kai fought Buu himself. And he responded " Him, that's Bibbidi's mad man? He's been revived again?". This proves that there are other beings that are alive now that know Buu. Also Beerus was probably sleeping but Wheis was not.
5:05 I think piccolo was training by meditation after the cell games ended. I know mental training is a part for helping to get stronger, but wouldn't be the most effective method.
Faulconer. I think he had two themes. The mysterious sounding one when first introduced but there is another one. I remember it playing when he was looking for Gohan after Buu beat them. That's the one@@AndrewAce.
@@TophDaGreat If you're referring to this, then it's definitely one of my favorites. th-cam.com/video/F8QAj0wxSW4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IYNkIvN7XgqZKDre Though I can kinda see your Super Mario 64 angle.
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD Well, it's up to you to decide... For the record, I'm not basing this off of Piccolo's forfeiture. This is more like my intuition. But I will admit, it's hard to scale Piccolo due to a lack of showings.
We can't assume Piccolo got ridiculously strong unless there is evidence of so. The writer did not make anything that shows Piccolo surpassed mSsj Goku.
I thought mystic/ultimate Gohan was like a Super Saiyan God where he just absorbed his full power into his base form. Its also a sort of Arthurian thing like you're saying probably. It's cool to think that transformations and techniques like Super Saiyan or Kaioken could be used with it and stacked upon it just like Super Saiyan God that would definitely give Gohan a nice power boost. Could be the way Beast form works. It's like some sort of Kaioshin Ultimate/Mystic Super Saiyan saiyan form.
I imagine around Dabura strength like maybe a tad weaker but not by much. So in the grand scheme of things he is very powerful its just that Super really broke the power scaling.
I personally think the supreme kais introduction was phenomenal. He was so mysterious and creepy. Hate the route that was taken that made him a bumbling moron.
Great video! Personal request (I’d love to see from you and Geekdom): How strong was Sopopovich and Yamu? 🤔 this would be a tough interesting topic! As for Supreme Kai: dude was scaaaary when he first came on the scene . But still ended up being kind of disappointing.. I always felt like he was able to take more damage in the battle just because his God body was more durable. I still to this day do not feel like he would’ve defeated piccolo if they fight, I’m sorry. 🤷🏾♂️
Shins power is his ability to create , he’s the opposite of the god of destruction so his power isn’t focused to his combat it’s focused into creating worlds and galaxies with life
Without shins magic. Piccolo would have him for roast beef kai. I wish Kaioshin was op. If he was, he could say, he's not allowed to fight because of rules. Similar to whis.
Physically he is implied weaker than Base Saiyans but stated much stronger than Namek Frieza as he said he could oneshot him,meaning he is far above 120,000,000 In the manga i have Base Gohan at 390,000,000 and Vegeta at 510,000,000 and Goku at 600,000,000 With his powers he is Cell Games Goku level as stated in guides Lets say 375,000,000 physically and 15,000,000,000 via powers and hax(can immobilise Gohan) While this may be controversial its not unsual. Piccolo could charge up the special beam cannon at over 3 times his power level. Tiens Neo Tri Beam could push down Semi-Perfect Cell and more. Master Roshi could charge up the Max Kamehameha to destroy the moon even though they had no prior feats above Mountain level As for him taking blows from Buu it doesnt mean much. Roshi took a kick from Tagoma Krillin survived a kick from Perfect Cell Base excausted Vegeta took many hits from Kid Buu Base Kid Trunks took a hit from SUPER BUU Tien survived Android 17 MrSatan took a light punch from Kid Buu And so on After fusing with Kibito he is implied to be high SSJ2 level Kibito is stated to not be far below Gohan so lets put him at 300,000,000 In power scaling terms Shin would be Star level physically and High Large Star level with powers. After fusing with kibito he would be Solar System level 6:18 Also personally Mike i would love to throw hands with God(The Father),not Jesus(God The Son) however. I am cool with him but dear ol dad has a lot to answer for lmao.
@@GrubKiller436Its repeatedly heavily implied in the manga version of the Buu Saga. I dont care for what BoG said because Toriyama only wrote the overall plot,not what the characters said,i search that up heavily.Toriyama did NOT write the line about Base Goku being weaker than Frieza. In the original manga Toriyama portrays the base saiyans as very powerful
He himself makes this claim and by that point in the series, it really isn't questionable. Base Goku, Vegeta, or Gohan from this arc could annihilate Super Saiyan Goku from the Namek Saga easily.
All things considered he did better against Buu than Gohan did, now I imagine Gohan might've been tired after fighting Dabura, so I'd put him around the level of Cell when he fought Goku, so supressed perfect Cell.
I’m really hoping they give him a buff in DB Magic. He doesn’t have to be a top fighter but he should at least be as useful as ToP Krillen or maybe have a varied skill set that doesn’t do direct damage like Roshi
@@bestaround3323 yeah he’s a lot more powerful than Roshi but I was saying he could be versatile like Roshi. Roshi can deal damage, paralyze, shoot lightning, put people to sleep and who knows what else
Shin was stated to be stronger than Piccolo during the Majin Buu saga, and shown to be weaker than Dabura, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta early in the Majin Buu saga. Official sources have even stated that Shin was on the same level as Goku during the Cell games.
@@lordalpharius5928 odds are that Beerus was napping during the whole incident where Kid Buu was attacking the Supreme Kais. Otherwise, Beerus could have handled Buu himself.
What people misunderstand about this character ( which we don't know his real name btw, KaioShin is his rank, his position ), is that strenght is not his goal. Gods are strong compared to random mortals ( even our good ol' Master Kaio was stronger than Goku when they first met ) , but they are not fighters who train all day long. They have a universe or regions of the universe to handle lol. Their best feats are things having a higher level of consciouness, having a pure spirit, creating stuff to maintain the balance in the universe , and keeping the whole thing working lol ... And being the weakest of the kaioshins, he still had a SSJ level of power, he could one shot Frieza, which makes him above like 99% of all the mortals ( Frieza at his prime was the tyrant dominating the universe )... But you know, the typical DBZ fan will say '' is he powerful ? no ? then he's lame '' lol
In gonna say shin was only able to do what he did thru sheer will because in his mind if he didn't get it done the universe is finished. alot of his powers I'd assume are just from being godly and training certain skills. There's been other characters that can freeze much stronger opponents. Guido froze Gohan krillin and Vegeta, Frieza has amazing telepathy which I'm shocked we didn't see him use more he was able to control krillin and pop him like a balloon. Move mountain sized chunks of namek with his mind.
I don't see how you would think any Kai regardless of universe is on par with super saiyan 3. Buu kicked all the Kai's asses quick. Super Saiyan 3 Goku and super saiyan 3 Gotinx gave Buu hell. Gotinx gave Buu hell intill he absorbed others. Goku super saiyan 3 dominated Buu until he absorbed Gohan and piccilo and Gotinx. Once Gotinx fusion wore off super Buu lost some power. But to say any Kai back then was on a super saiyan 3 level is ridiculous.
Low balling him He's as powerful as a Cell Games Goku since he said that he could one shot Frieza and Piccolo did say upon meeting him that Shin was stronger than him. In my opinion I would Piccolo was roughly as powerful as Full powered Ssj Goku or Gohan with Shin being as powerful as Perfect Cell before he got his zenkai boost from blowing himself up. However I think its only because of the God Ki that he is more powerful than base Goku, Vegeta, & Gohan as without god ki, they should be physical stronger.
He was like the android saga playing around with the ideas of different types of Ki and units of measuring it. Such as God Ki and Killi. Just like how they couldn't sense the Androids because they're mechanical or cybernetic. They can't sense the divine Ki from Kibito or the Kaoishin either. And Babidi and his Henchmen measure Ki in units of Killi instead of numerical power levels. Also all the Majin dudes were different.
I honestly thought that Shin and Kabito were going to be the villains of that arc! I, too wonder if there was a switch-up for how convoluted the revelation was, how the tournament became largely a non-event and so on. Albeit, even with the non-supersaiyan stricture they put on themselves; everyone knew that the likely winners was very short. Until gods and god level beings showed up. But then even the gods really made no difference against supersaiyan power--until Majin Buu got unlocked. I personally thought that Gohan never truly reached super saiyan 2 until he was trying to destroy the 'magic ball of Buu'. Although, if that's true, then I'm not sure if he'd have been able to do as well against Dabora as he did? Then again, I recall Vegeta clearly saying that it was absurd because Gohan was nearly a grown man, but he was stronger as a little boy. So I have my doubts that Dabora was really stronger than super Perfect Cell. He might have just been regular Perfect Cell level in strength, with Gohan clearly weakened despite being older? One thing to consider is that fighting skill may often be overwhelmed by sheer power, but is still VERY important. For example, while Frieza in the Namek adventure knows how to fight; he's an arrogant and poor fighter compared to the Z-fighters. He simply appeared far more competent and skilled than he is due to his overwhelming power making Frieza stronger, tougher and faster than his opponents. Likewise, the Supreme Kai DOES have great power as you suggest. He was at least able to make effects against Buu who had made Gohan and Dabora look like nothing, and Buu ultimately gave Majin-Vegeta a severe beatdown. The problem wasn't that the Supreme Kai was WEAK in power, the Supreme Kai would seem to be absent any high level fighting skills. As he only 'fought' by raising his arms and flinging divine force against Buu, that would seem to be borne out. Kibito is almost certainly a much weaker god, so the fusion into Kibito Kai isn't going to be to the same degree as say Goku and Vegeta making a fusion. Super-Buu being ramped up considerably from original Buu made that fusion not that great of an increase. Remember, it was VERY important to Goku to fuse with another fighter--he was willing to fuse with Hercule/Mr. Satan rather than the far more powerful Dende. Mr. Satan has no true superpowers, but he IS a fighter. Plus, Dende is important for the Dragonballs and his role as Kami. Anyway, while Kibito-Kai might have been able to pitch in, his fighting skills just weren't going to enough to make him a player. If someone can't get in to hit, if that someone can't dodge to protect himself, than he's probably a liability even if he's undeniably strong. A strong furniture mover has little business in a martial arts contest except as a living practice dummy. Kibito-Kai would have just been able to serve as cannon-fodder had he tried to help; and if he died, Beerus would have died as well and likely other serious problems would come to pass in the universe. Which is why the Supreme Kai isn't supposed to fight in serious contests at all. That's why old Kai told Kibito-Kai to hold back. He's much more helpful looking from above as a utility character.
Again Pink Supreme Kai who is usually purple in the Dragon ball anime adaptations in the these manga pages I see here and Gohan's orange bandana which is usually white in the Dragonball anime adaptations. Glad this Shin isn't perverted like old supreme kai 15th generation. Though Shin had a lot of Naivety when it came to Earth's strong heroes and Babidi's weak minions.
The Supreme Kai was a big disappointment. Piccolo was too scared to fight him at the world martial arts tournament yet Supreme Kai could do anything against Majin Buu
it's very tricky to make ideas on his power. we know he's alive ssj namek Goku but I feel comfortable enough to say he isn't above end of cell saga characters like perfect cell and ssj2 Gohan.
Speaking of Inner monologues here Mike the other book series I read I don't want to anger you but let's just say the adaptations of Sword Art Online don't have inner monologues like the light novel books do that I have in my head at home in my spare time. Though I don't know why the adaptations don't have the inner monologues. Code Geass and The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzimiya had a few moments where you could actually hear what the characters were thinking though the sao books outnumber the adaptations these days
one moment Piccolo from the Buu Saga, who by then easily compares to Cell Games Vegeta, cowers in fear and drops the match, then later Kaioshin shits himself when seeing the likes of PuiPui and in DBS he gets damaged by Android 18 ...
About how Goku would fare against Yakon, he was doing fine in his base form and just turned into a Super Saiyan to make a point. If you take the guides into account to make the argument that he's weaker in base, you should also take the guides placing the reading of 3000 kili at 150 million Power Level, meaning he was suppressing himself when it was taken. I think placing Shin around the level of Goku in the Cell Games is accurate. Gohan's power is roughly half of Goku's and Vegeta's in equal forms, and despite him knowing his paralysis ability outscaled his own fighting capabilities he doubted he could freeze the Saiyan because he reached Super Saiyan 2. I'd say Super Saiyan Gohan at this point in this saga is around Perfect Cell, so since he's below that level Cell Games Goku is the next strongest benchmark.
Well first allow me to commend you on the brilliant video. As ChatGPT was based on I, perhaps I can verbally illustrate an oxymoron I know. What makes Kai's substantial isn't their power level, rather it is the rank of their being. In other words it is how Kais are important to the story. We can begin this the greatest of them all, the most heinous, criminal that took a great devil king as servant. King Kai, now as though the anime only fans they won't think much of this character. Yet King Kai is what set Dragon Ball Z Kai in motion. If you remember Kai's have two merits that sets them apart from all other characters. The first is their divine ki, in the English dubbed mystic ki. This ki isn't like any others in the entirety of dragon ball. Their ki is leagues purer than any other. It is this purity of their ki that sets them apart. Kais is able to live indefinitely by self-sustenance or a version of immortality. In the philosophy Toriyama uses martial arts and ki as the root of his power system. As such he explained it as never needing to eat food, get sick or age. Combine this with that their ki canfully restore an individual. I don't mean just healing like fixing some muscles or cuts. I mean they can fully materialize a body from seemingly nothing and multiples at that. Again in our world that means you can bring back the dead at will at will. This was the power of Kabuto, Supreme Kai's assistant who had to prove himself worthy could do. Yet even that didn't make him a Kai until he develops his signature. In Dragon Ball Z, not Kai expresses that each Kai held a signature power that set them apart. One Kai was said to be the swiftest in all the universe when she developed her Kai no suteppu or quick step of the kai. Another Kai stated they could control the elements with their Kai no chikara or Power of the Kai. Each and every Kai held a unique technique that set them apart. Most famously known is Kaioken or King Kai's fist. It's stated to be the universes strongest technique. It's how he earned the status King. Now anime only watchers wouldn't get the signifance of this move. Due to games, dubbing issues and the egoistical, people lost revernece of what the technique. In our world the Kaioken would allow one to momentarily multiply all bodily parameters. Again key words were all bodily parameters. This means you are able to see, move, think, act and strength is multipled. Let's say your max dead lift was 300lbs, with Kaiokenx2 that's 600lbs. Let's say your fastest mile is ten minutes. With Kaiokenx2 your moving twice as fast, so that's 1 mile every five minutes. Back in the anime we saw Goku's base power level was over 8,000. So a x4 that made his 32,000 for a moment. Vegeta stated proudly that his power level is exactly 30,000 and that's why he's elite. Vegeta never understood how Goku was always able to out power him. And the answer wasn't in super saiyan it was in technique. It wasn't until they fused did Vegeta learn why Goku was stronger than him. It was the Kaioken, sure if Vegeta has the higher base power level of 30,000. Goku can always surpass it in a crucial moment with this technique. The only cavaet is that without mystic ki, this technique destroys the body. Repeatedly using drastically sudden leaps in strength will break bones, tear muscles and inflame organs. The amount of pain to undergo means you also feel pain that much sharply as well. This creates what many martial artists call a zone, nirvana or enlightenment. Even though theirs a lot of pain, it isn't bad rather it's helping you hone your martial artists. With proper ki control Goku said he could use x20 kaioken on Namek. King Kai does the Kaioken passively. King Kai for his crimes of the Kaioken, as its a flawless technique with no limits. Meaning depending on your own pain tolerance, and factoring a crisis. The human body can exert 3~5 point of exertion though this last at first for briefest of a second. By honing your body you don't try to multiply power, but by refining it. So when you use power it flows easier. The easier the flow the longer teh duration an individual can maintain that state. Goku learned out of sheer desperation he reached a kaioken x20 and still couldn't defeat Frieza. I know super saiyan had become the iconic thing cause of art weebs or anime only fans. But in the manga the Kaioken was an important tool in his arsenal. Remeber each of the Z fighters shares the same master of King Kai. Each of them made it to the end of snake way and impressed King Kai. Meaning every fighter was able to raise and lower their power with this technique. Except Krillin and Gohan who had their inner potential tapped, which was limit breaker moment. For any who don't know what Limit Breaking is when a character suffers an extensive trauma, then in a moment of clarity develops beyond what they believed they could do. All Guru did was remove Krillin and Gohan's fear and pain. Without fear and pain, then they were able to perform leagues higher, but their not immortal. Cause when were referring to the Supreme Kai, who has the power to create anything he holds an understanding of. Such a power is why many seek to learn under him. Piccolo's clothes beam is an extent of this power. Piccolo inherited this power, because the Nameless Namekian was stated to be Kabuto rival in the mystic arts and study under the supreme Kai. The original japanese subbed dialogue was leagues better than western permissions at the time due to maturity. The East believe you treat a child with the respect of an adult. The west believes age determines maturity, so all cartoons were labeled PG-14. They really delved into the lore of dragon ball and how characters sync up. It's a feature that their showing in Dragon Ball Fighters. Which is actually a plot Toriyama approved so the game is canon to Kai. Just a few years after Buu rejoined society as Hercules disciple. Then it go overdown to character skins.
Idea for a video, "How SMART is Supreme Kai?" Because even King Kai seemed to have more common sense than Shin. And Old Kai ridiculed Shin quite a bit for being naive as well.
I'm guessing around but slightly below SSJ Goku and Vegeta. The fact he backed down after Goku threatened him (and I know its because he didn't want to risk giving Buu energy) show's he know's he can't easily defeat Goku and he was getting knocked around about the same as Gohan who we all know is below Goku and Vegeta at that point.
I thought Shin caught Bibidi off guard? Flash back in Buu Saga showed Bibidi use super speed to dodge a kid buu blast, but we never see Babidi move like that
22:37 I don’t think that’s the case, the thing with buu is he knows he can regenerate from seemingly nothing so he usually just plays around, or lets himself get hit until he gets mad or bored. Vegeta in the manga and anime pummels him to start the fight off but then buu gets mad and starts actually fighting. And starts kicking his ass. We know he’s stronger then vegeta, so logically he’s faster but he just lets himself get hit. And he didn’t deflect the attack or anything he just blew it up before it could cause more damage. I don’t think shin was tanking the hits buu was just toying with him. Especially after just being awoken for thousands of years he’d want to play. He’s in his character really to
One thing too, in the anime it was stated that Majin Buu`s power was increasing as time went by. When he was first released from his shell, he was not as strong as the first time he fought SSJ3 Goku.
I've always been of the belief that Shin was meant to be the bad guy for like 5 minutes before Toriyama was told he was too puny or no convincingly strong enough. Thus his evil smile.
He does look suspiciously similar to kid buu. You may be on to something lol
Conceited kais. They’re capable of emotional outbursts abs corruption just like Zamasu. They only hide it well.
No I think it was clear babidi and Buu were going to be the villains, at least to me.
It's pretty obvious he wasn't. Unless you mean a discarded design or something.
It's less of an "evil" smile and more of a "smug" smile. It's often used for villain characters before their reveal, but it's not exclusive to them. Shin just thinks highly of himself, that's all there really is to it. If you think about it, the reason he's here at all is to prevent an ancient evil from being unleashed, and it's obvious from his dialogue that this is already the case in the authors (Toriyama) mind. He's not a bad guy, he's just a bit of a smug elitist at this point in the story.
I never really thought he looked creepy when he was intimidating piccolo. I always thought he looked like a smug prick. Made him constantly being surprised later funny.
It's funny how confident he was at first then when Majin Vegeta and Buu show he's immediately cowarding or getting beat up.
Supreme Kai is such a cool character. I wish we got to see him fight more. The fact he took so much damage from Buu and still managed to keep fighting says a lot.
Can we get numbers like back in the earlier seasons of DBZ? Lol 😂
Except he and Beerus let Frieza run rampant across the galaxy for some reason.
At least he didn't keep his smug face the whole series.
@@justinarzola4584 the real question is: is Yamcha stronger than the supreme Kai? Lol
Well, your wish got granted lol you'll see an entire anime with him as one of the main characters starting next year
The whole point of Supreme kais character was for him to underestimate the z fighters so it makes sence that the Fandom doesn't hold him up as a very powerful character
Thank you,Someone with common sense! People be looking way to deep in these things 😂
He is very weak though. Nothing suggests he can fight at all against the Base Saiyans.
Not strong enough to even help after fusing with another god lmao
Kabito was a servant not a god. But supreme Kai is between full power super Saiyan Goku from cell saga and low grade super Saiyan 2. He's by no means weak. Besides he fought better against fat buu than Gohan did..
The Supreme Kai slander is so unwarranted and unnecessary. Let’s see how well you do your job when all your coworkers literally die and leave you with nothing. Anyone who’s ever worked a shift ALONE knows the struggle 😭
@@BLUEBOYISLEDGE Even if that's the case I was just defending supreme Kai being called weak not running the universe. At his maximum he's low end super Saiyan 2 level . People act like superme Kai couldn't beat yakon or pui pui or even spopavich for that matter his character is stronger than people think.
They really should’ve at least let Kibitoshin throw hands with Buu.
Stole the words right out my mouth 😂
I would comfortably put Shin at maybe Perfect Cell level.
While Majin Dabura at Super Perfect Cell level.
Meaning that Dabura (pre-Majin) could very well have been Shin's equal at Perfect Cell level - and polar opposite twin (Good vs Evil).
Dabura is only a Super Saiyan level opponent.
It amuses me that despite being made fun of by the characters and fans, if Shin had shown up in the Cell saga he would've been one of the strongest guys there. Still not the sharpest power escalation
I think he's about as strong as Perfect Cell pre-Zenkai boost.
negative. @@quesocoatl21
@@quesocoatl21no
Shin couldn't defeat Pui Pui, he's got no chance against Cell.
This is honestly pretty interesting. In the past I would have said being about relative to the Goku who fought Cell at the start of the Cell Games was the most generous one could reasonably by about Shin's power. After watching this and seeing some arguments I hadn't considered, like Shin actually lasting a fair amount of time against Fat Buu who easily dusted Dabura who is roughly on par with Super Perfect Cell (granted, Buu didn't use the candy beam on Shin like he did with Dabura), I think either on par with regular Perfect Cell or in the vague area between Perfect Cell and Super Perfect Cell is about where Shin lands, power-scaling wise.
My impression was that Majin Buu, once released, faced characters of progressive strength. First Gohan, then Shin, then Dabura, then Vegeta, each somewhat stronger than the previous challenger.
He's weaker than the Base Saiyans. Dabura is only Super Saiyan level and he terrifies Kaioshin. Kaioshin can't even beat Pui Pui.
@@powerlevelguy8054 DAbura is on the level of perfect cell, who is far above a super sayian
Supreme Kai power was probably just above Piccolo. Add all the magic abilities and different techniques and you see why he was able to last a little bit with Buu.
except he was afraid of Pui Pui...
@MFjaYWiLL no he wasn't.
@@MFjaYWiLL Early morning troll
@@MFjaYWiLLummm no why would he be scared of someone he mulitple times stronger
@@Luke973T dude was afraid of every minion. and kept talking about jumping people. Supreme Kai was ass
I think Supreme Kai also knows how to use barrier. In Dragonball Super, Kaioshin and Gowasu used barrier to protect themselves and Bulma and Mai when Zamasu attack them with energy beam from sky.
Maybe but we didn't see him use it when he gets hit.
Man I love these “How Strong is” videos, especially focusing on Z characters that people have been debating about for decades. While you’re on this roll, I’ve always wonder how strong Kibito & Suppopovich are compared to other members of the Dragon team, especially the Earthlings. Suppopovich wouldn’t stand a chance against any of the upper tier fighters or probably wasn’t even stronger than Krillin, but I wonder how he’d do against the late Dragon Ball characters & how would do against the fighters from the 22nd & 23rd World Tournament. Kibito is a bit of a mystery but one I’ve always really wanted to figure out.
Side note: Speaking of Kibito, he’s already ugly af but WOW that blue color from the manga looks so bad that the anime staff did him a favor lmao 😂
Based on feats and context I put Spopovich probably below the level of mercenary Tao in OG Dragon Ball. I think he’d be a tough fight for 21st budokai Goku.
And as for Kibito, I think it’s safe to assume he’s somewhere around Android 16 level. Above Frieza and the untrained super saiyans, but not as powerful as cell or supreme Kai. I think a fight between Kibito and piccolo would be closer than a fight between Piccolo and supreme Kai.
A guide book stated Kibito would have given base Gohan a good fight.
Spoc and Yam vs older characters is more of a mystery though.
@@RealTalkOrWalk looks like the colors are reversed for shin and kibito compared to the show
@@zaklopopolo4366 actually Kibito being around Android 16’s level sounds like damn good estimate & I’ve always thought Suppovich might actually be around that range of Tien from the 22nd Budokai but that may be a high ball.
What people never realize is that Shin is just traumatized by Buu and is just afraid of the "M" on all the bad guys foreheads, not their actual power level. It just reminds him of Buu and he takes it seriously.
@@teeboz6237 based on his performance vs fat buu he did better than dabura, i think he couldve actually beat dabura
He had a million years since Buu to get his stuff together. He's supposed to be the highest ranking Kai.
He's not just traumatized, he's weak. He's weaker than all of Badibi's men, including Pui Pui and Yakon. He's piss weak.
I always thought this guy was weak after seeing how scared he was of Buu coming out. At first I thought this character would be a big deal when he shock Piccolo hand. 😂😂
Likely Toriyama couldn't decide how strong he should be and probably realized he couldn't be too strong otherwise the Z fighters wouldn't have to do anything against Buu. It's frustrating how because of the way he was hyped up during the tournament, Piccolo didn't even want to fight him, so not only did we not get to see Piccolo's current level of strength, but the hype was all for nothing in the end. It was super disappointing. The Buu saga in general felt like it was just full of moments where Toriyama was doing asspulls and/or second guessing his decisions and retconning stuff that didn't need to be, instead of being more creative with the plot.
@@wisdumcube he retreads the concept with how powerful whis and beerus are etc. in super so im happy there, we got our gods who are GOD power
Buu was just that strong.
He had a right to be afraid of buu. If kid buu comes out of that ball he would have killed all of them.
Yep. He's trash
FACT: Hercule survived direct attacks from Perfect Cell and Kid Buu. The Earth's true Hero can never die!
Neither can yo momma
Hercule vs Manaka would be the battle of the century
Hercule pulled 4 buses, tore multiple phone books apart, and punched through a bus...he is a bad mofo
Mike is on a roll, you been my podcast like entertainment ever since you got back 💯
I think he's somewhere between Piccolo and SSJ2 Gohan... Shin's presence was certainly overshadowed by the threats of Dabura and Buu, as well as his bad information gathering and terrible decisions.
It made him look like less of a knowledgeable and imposing deity figure, and more like a kid who didn't do his homework (which is kinda what he actually is). But I think his power shouldn't be underestimated.
It's just too bad we never actually got to see him have a *proper* fight.
Oh well, he's still one of my mains in Budokai 3...
I will agree when compared to Kami, King Kai, Grand Elder Supreme Kai and Wheez yes Supreme Kai really seemed put of his depth at times. I don't know if I'd put at Piccolo's level of power because I think the moment he realize he was face to face with the God of Gods that respect for the position kicked in. But I'd say it's fair to put Supreme Kai at at least a Super Sayian in terms of power.
@@donovanbradford8231 Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't think Piccolo's forfeiture was due to him being weaker than Shin, I have other reasons for rating Shin higher. I say this as someone who doesn't by any means underestimate Piccolo, and I'm also not concrete on the matter. It's just a bit of an educated guess.
In terms of Shins charactersization, yes he certainly was out of his depth. He can almost be compared to Future Trunks in a way; being the last and youngest of his group, lacking in confidence or experience, and facing bad odds. My main gripe is just that Toriyama sort of knocked him on his ass after such a cool build-up with him, and he really didn get to show off the way someone like Trunks did...
@@donovanbradford8231 Kaio was even more lost about everything. Shin by comparison is trying to help, and actually did his HW. He knew Goku was a Saiyan.
"I think he's somewhere between Piccolo and SSJ2 Gohan..."
That's a pretty large gap.
@@malchir4036 Well there really isn't anyone else in between those two characters, sooooo....
Great video Mike! And yeah regular perfect cell would be the most appropiate comparasion!
At least before Cell powered up to 100% and was WAY stronger than SSJ Grade 4 Goku.
The fact Piccolo realizes Shin was the god of gods is why I think he forfeited because of the rank, rather than power level. It was the Kami in him giving respect.
OK, I watched the part about his performance against Fat Buu and you convinced me. My new opinion is Shin is stronger than Piccolo but Piccolo still forfeited out of respect anyway (because Piccolo always fights against everyone, even Freeza).
Well said.
Shin is not a god of God's that wood be zeno as he made all life making him god of God's not shin
i know i mean during the buu saga piccolo thought there was nobody higher than shin@@leosnyder5264
Agreed, Piccolo cannot sense a god's ki, so he never actually sensed Kaioshin's power.
toriyama did the supreme kai so dirty, I remember when he first appeared I thought he was the villian of the buu saga or strong enough to match up with goku because he looked so menacing with that stare whole time it was a troll lol
19:00 a quick correction. Buu caught up to Gohan. Not Goku.
What makes them think they know how strong Dabura was? Didn’t goku just say he can’t sense the power of those under the influence of the majin?
Great video. I had always assumed supreme kai was stronger than people made him out to be
strong, yes, but oh so ridiculously stupid. I actually hate how they did him like that.
Why didn’t Kai just freeze Pui Pui, the greeen monster and Debura and move them somewhere else so there wouldn’t be any fights that would go to MB?
So the story can happen!
@@evanhayes5891Which means he got hit by a case of the stupid
He is too inexperienced to do things like that. Considering how badly Buu scarred him, it's likely Shin just overthought things.
Supreme Kai fought better against fat buu than Gohan did. He's around full power Super Saiyan Goku from cell saga and low grade super Saiyan 2 in my honest opinion he's really not that weak when he tries. But he's got a coward mentality.
“Fight” is an overstatement, nothing Shin for fazed Buu in the slightest
Gohan was not only caught off guard but focused on running away
Buu toyed with Shin, Gohan had just blasted Buu’s ball with all he had and wasn’t 100%, and Buu obviously used way more power against Gohan and Dabura.
He did survive Buu’s explosion but he was much further away from it than Vegeta was and may have just caught the outer explosion or wind impact from it
Hey, nice vid. You made a statement around 10:40 that Kaioshin was the only living being in the universe that had fought Buu. However, later during Kid Buu saga, when Buu makes it to Otherworld and fights Pikon, North Kai reminds West Kai of who Kid Buu is and reminds him that West Kai fought Buu himself. And he responded " Him, that's Bibbidi's mad man? He's been revived again?". This proves that there are other beings that are alive now that know Buu. Also Beerus was probably sleeping but Wheis was not.
Supreme Kai gives me final form Frieza vibes. Small and weak looking at first, but will give anyone a very difficult time except for Majin Buu
5:05 I think piccolo was training by meditation after the cell games ended. I know mental training is a part for helping to get stronger, but wouldn't be the most effective method.
Shin's creepy smile introduction reminds me of the Happy Mas salesman from LOZ: Majoras Mask
Finally! I had a feeling this video was coming up.
He’s stated to be equal to cell saga ssj goku by el manga legendario.
I could see that...
If it's not outright stated in the manga or by the writers, it's no more than speculation.
@@shane7051you supreme kai dickriders came out of nowhere literaly who tf thinks this guy is strong
@@shane7051There is no arguments against the statements.
Stfu man, he is semi perfect Cell level at best
The one good thing Super did was unfuse Kibito and Shin. Them fusing by accident always seemed way too dumb to me, even as a kid.
In this Saga beerus's life flashes before his eyes lol
His theme always sounded like something off mario 64 to me 😂
Faulconer or Kikuchi?
Faulconer. I think he had two themes. The mysterious sounding one when first introduced but there is another one. I remember it playing when he was looking for Gohan after Buu beat them. That's the one@@AndrewAce.
@@TophDaGreat If you're referring to this, then it's definitely one of my favorites.
th-cam.com/video/F8QAj0wxSW4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IYNkIvN7XgqZKDre
Though I can kinda see your Super Mario 64 angle.
As strong as Ssj Grade 4 Goku at least and maybe slightly weaker than piccolo in the Buu Saga
I think he's actually a fair bit higher than Piccolo. And I say this not underestimating Piccolo...
@@AndrewAce. No Piccolo was definitely stronger but shin could have so magic to beat piccolo
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD Well, it's up to you to decide...
For the record, I'm not basing this off of Piccolo's forfeiture. This is more like my intuition. But I will admit, it's hard to scale Piccolo due to a lack of showings.
We can't assume Piccolo got ridiculously strong unless there is evidence of so. The writer did not make anything that shows Piccolo surpassed mSsj Goku.
Buu saga Piccolo is stronger than Cell saga FPSJJ Goku?!
I thought mystic/ultimate Gohan was like a Super Saiyan God where he just absorbed his full power into his base form. Its also a sort of Arthurian thing like you're saying probably. It's cool to think that transformations and techniques like Super Saiyan or Kaioken could be used with it and stacked upon it just like Super Saiyan God that would definitely give Gohan a nice power boost. Could be the way Beast form works. It's like some sort of Kaioshin Ultimate/Mystic Super Saiyan saiyan form.
I imagine around Dabura strength like maybe a tad weaker but not by much. So in the grand scheme of things he is very powerful its just that Super really broke the power scaling.
He not dabura level dude dabura wood smock him
He's nowhere close to Dabura.
Dabura was toying with him in the future trunks timeline
he's around mssj Goku level during the cell saga at full power and about SSJ 2 Gohan during cell saga when fused.
I wish we could have seen more of him fighting he was cool and Gohan needs to rain with the kais again he could follow in their footsteps.
I personally think the supreme kais introduction was phenomenal. He was so mysterious and creepy. Hate the route that was taken that made him a bumbling moron.
Always enjoy your videos Mike! You always make my day!😊😊😊😊
Another great video, thanks!
I'd say he falls somewhere between Perfect Cell and SSJ2 pre teen Gohan based off his feats.
Great video!
Personal request (I’d love to see from you and Geekdom): How strong was Sopopovich and Yamu? 🤔 this would be a tough interesting topic!
As for Supreme Kai: dude was scaaaary when he first came on the scene . But still ended up being kind of disappointing.. I always felt like he was able to take more damage in the battle just because his God body was more durable. I still to this day do not feel like he would’ve defeated piccolo if they fight, I’m sorry. 🤷🏾♂️
Shins power is his ability to create , he’s the opposite of the god of destruction so his power isn’t focused to his combat it’s focused into creating worlds and galaxies with life
He can't create mu much or he wood fix rgee home planet and make sad strong fighters for top Arc he can't make shit
@@leosnyder5264 that’s not their job. Their job is to create and let those species dictate their own fate
Fantastic content as always mike
His creepy smile was stronger and than anything else he’s done up to this point
Answer: i mean he could stop some thugs 😂😂💀
This was a solid Video
I knew Bulma's hair was purple in the manga, but I never realized Supreme Kai and Kibito switched skin colors LMAO
1000x stronger than namek frieza so his power level was probably 120,000,000,000
Shin Power:
Raw Power Cell Games SS1 Goku.
With Magic: Somewhat on par With SS2 Saiyans in Buu Saga
Without shins magic. Piccolo would have him for roast beef kai.
I wish Kaioshin was op. If he was, he could say, he's not allowed to fight because of rules. Similar to whis.
Shin's introduction was so badass then he became as irrelevant as yamcha besides being beerus' counterpart
Physically he is implied weaker than Base Saiyans but stated much stronger than Namek Frieza as he said he could oneshot him,meaning he is far above 120,000,000
In the manga i have Base Gohan at 390,000,000 and Vegeta at 510,000,000 and Goku at 600,000,000
With his powers he is Cell Games Goku level as stated in guides
Lets say 375,000,000 physically and 15,000,000,000 via powers and hax(can immobilise Gohan)
While this may be controversial its not unsual.
Piccolo could charge up the special beam cannon at over 3 times his power level.
Tiens Neo Tri Beam could push down Semi-Perfect Cell and more.
Master Roshi could charge up the Max Kamehameha to destroy the moon even though they had no prior feats above Mountain level
As for him taking blows from Buu it doesnt mean much.
Roshi took a kick from Tagoma
Krillin survived a kick from Perfect Cell
Base excausted Vegeta took many hits from Kid Buu
Base Kid Trunks took a hit from SUPER BUU
Tien survived Android 17
MrSatan took a light punch from Kid Buu
And so on
After fusing with Kibito he is implied to be high SSJ2 level
Kibito is stated to not be far below Gohan so lets put him at 300,000,000
In power scaling terms Shin would be Star level physically and High Large Star level with powers.
After fusing with kibito he would be Solar System level
6:18 Also personally Mike i would love to throw hands with God(The Father),not Jesus(God The Son) however.
I am cool with him but dear ol dad has a lot to answer for lmao.
There is no evidence that their bases surpassed Namek Ssj Goku.
@@GrubKiller436Its repeatedly heavily implied in the manga version of the Buu Saga.
I dont care for what BoG said because Toriyama only wrote the overall plot,not what the characters said,i search that up heavily.Toriyama did NOT write the line about Base Goku being weaker than Frieza.
In the original manga Toriyama portrays the base saiyans as very powerful
Negative base saiyans are below final form frieza In buu saga it doesn’t matter if you cared or not 😂😂
Those power levels are complete bullshit.
I always thought it would be a God to release Old Kai from the Z sword
🤔 i thought it was stated that supreme Kai could one shot frieza but then is shocked of the power of goku, vegeta and Gohan
I would put him king cold level 😂
He himself makes this claim and by that point in the series, it really isn't questionable. Base Goku, Vegeta, or Gohan from this arc could annihilate Super Saiyan Goku from the Namek Saga easily.
@@ZeroDividedByZeronegative base saiyans are below 100% final form frieza in buu saga
Mike does not miss
thank you ls mike
All things considered he did better against Buu than Gohan did, now I imagine Gohan might've been tired after fighting Dabura, so I'd put him around the level of Cell when he fought Goku, so supressed perfect Cell.
Gohan took a sensu bean before he and Shin went into Babadi`s ship, so Gohan would not have been tired from the Dabura fight.
I’m really hoping they give him a buff in DB Magic. He doesn’t have to be a top fighter but he should at least be as useful as ToP Krillen or maybe have a varied skill set that doesn’t do direct damage like Roshi
He should be a lot better then Roshi.
@@bestaround3323 yeah he’s a lot more powerful than Roshi but I was saying he could be versatile like Roshi. Roshi can deal damage, paralyze, shoot lightning, put people to sleep and who knows what else
Shin was stated to be stronger than Piccolo during the Majin Buu saga, and shown to be weaker than Dabura, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta early in the Majin Buu saga. Official sources have even stated that Shin was on the same level as Goku during the Cell games.
Never heard of these “official” sources that state that
And in super he’s far weaker than Android 18
25:33 where was Beerus when the supreme Kaios where being attacked?
@@lordalpharius5928 I don't agree that 18 in super was stronger than Shin just because she scratched him and intimidated him.
@@lordalpharius5928 odds are that Beerus was napping during the whole incident where Kid Buu was attacking the Supreme Kais. Otherwise, Beerus could have handled Buu himself.
Yeah, around Perfect Cell. No idea about the fusion, though. It did absolutely nothing.
What people misunderstand about this character ( which we don't know his real name btw, KaioShin is his rank, his position ), is that strenght is not his goal. Gods are strong compared to random mortals ( even our good ol' Master Kaio was stronger than Goku when they first met ) , but they are not fighters who train all day long. They have a universe or regions of the universe to handle lol.
Their best feats are things having a higher level of consciouness, having a pure spirit, creating stuff to maintain the balance in the universe , and keeping the whole thing working lol ...
And being the weakest of the kaioshins, he still had a SSJ level of power, he could one shot Frieza, which makes him above like 99% of all the mortals ( Frieza at his prime was the tyrant dominating the universe )...
But you know, the typical DBZ fan will say '' is he powerful ? no ? then he's lame '' lol
In gonna say shin was only able to do what he did thru sheer will because in his mind if he didn't get it done the universe is finished. alot of his powers I'd assume are just from being godly and training certain skills. There's been other characters that can freeze much stronger opponents. Guido froze Gohan krillin and Vegeta, Frieza has amazing telepathy which I'm shocked we didn't see him use more he was able to control krillin and pop him like a balloon. Move mountain sized chunks of namek with his mind.
Some people think18 could have killed Supreme Court in DBS because she threatened him at the T. O.P
So strong but can't lift up the z sword haha
The thing about DBZ is the lowest henchmen from the end would whip up on the bosses in the beginning it makes it hard to put in perspective.
I don't see how you would think any Kai regardless of universe is on par with super saiyan 3. Buu kicked all the Kai's asses quick. Super Saiyan 3 Goku and super saiyan 3 Gotinx gave Buu hell. Gotinx gave Buu hell intill he absorbed others. Goku super saiyan 3 dominated Buu until he absorbed Gohan and piccilo and Gotinx. Once Gotinx fusion wore off super Buu lost some power. But to say any Kai back then was on a super saiyan 3 level is ridiculous.
Almost a dozen paragraphs on a year old video is bananas my guy
Low balling him He's as powerful as a Cell Games Goku since he said that he could one shot Frieza and Piccolo did say upon meeting him that Shin was stronger than him. In my opinion I would Piccolo was roughly as powerful as Full powered Ssj Goku or Gohan with Shin being as powerful as Perfect Cell before he got his zenkai boost from blowing himself up. However I think its only because of the God Ki that he is more powerful than base Goku, Vegeta, & Gohan as without god ki, they should be physical stronger.
I wonder if the Big Gette Star can capture and fuse with a weakened Zamasu?
I don't doubt it. The Big Ghetto Star ain't no one's fool
It should fuse with a Namekian elder and become New Namek's moon.
@@evanhayes5891 The Big Namekian Star
@@black2785 It has all the Unobtainium they could ever want!
@@black2785 The Big Green Star
(Complete with bad dubbing 😂)
Can you do a video on how strong are the Dragon Ball Z movie villains?
He was like the android saga playing around with the ideas of different types of Ki and units of measuring it. Such as God Ki and Killi. Just like how they couldn't sense the Androids because they're mechanical or cybernetic. They can't sense the divine Ki from Kibito or the Kaoishin either. And Babidi and his Henchmen measure Ki in units of Killi instead of numerical power levels. Also all the Majin dudes were different.
Him being around Perfect Cell does make sense. With Dabura being slightly stronger thsn Super Perfect cell.
Dabura is nowhere near SPC level. He's only as strong as Super Saiyan Gohan.
incredible amounts of insight
Indeed...
I honestly thought that Shin and Kabito were going to be the villains of that arc! I, too wonder if there was a switch-up for how convoluted the revelation was, how the tournament became largely a non-event and so on. Albeit, even with the non-supersaiyan stricture they put on themselves; everyone knew that the likely winners was very short.
Until gods and god level beings showed up. But then even the gods really made no difference against supersaiyan power--until Majin Buu got unlocked.
I personally thought that Gohan never truly reached super saiyan 2 until he was trying to destroy the 'magic ball of Buu'. Although, if that's true, then I'm not sure if he'd have been able to do as well against Dabora as he did? Then again, I recall Vegeta clearly saying that it was absurd because Gohan was nearly a grown man, but he was stronger as a little boy. So I have my doubts that Dabora was really stronger than super Perfect Cell. He might have just been regular Perfect Cell level in strength, with Gohan clearly weakened despite being older?
One thing to consider is that fighting skill may often be overwhelmed by sheer power, but is still VERY important. For example, while Frieza in the Namek adventure knows how to fight; he's an arrogant and poor fighter compared to the Z-fighters. He simply appeared far more competent and skilled than he is due to his overwhelming power making Frieza stronger, tougher and faster than his opponents.
Likewise, the Supreme Kai DOES have great power as you suggest. He was at least able to make effects against Buu who had made Gohan and Dabora look like nothing, and Buu ultimately gave Majin-Vegeta a severe beatdown. The problem wasn't that the Supreme Kai was WEAK in power, the Supreme Kai would seem to be absent any high level fighting skills. As he only 'fought' by raising his arms and flinging divine force against Buu, that would seem to be borne out. Kibito is almost certainly a much weaker god, so the fusion into Kibito Kai isn't going to be to the same degree as say Goku and Vegeta making a fusion. Super-Buu being ramped up considerably from original Buu made that fusion not that great of an increase. Remember, it was VERY important to Goku to fuse with another fighter--he was willing to fuse with Hercule/Mr. Satan rather than the far more powerful Dende. Mr. Satan has no true superpowers, but he IS a fighter. Plus, Dende is important for the Dragonballs and his role as Kami.
Anyway, while Kibito-Kai might have been able to pitch in, his fighting skills just weren't going to enough to make him a player. If someone can't get in to hit, if that someone can't dodge to protect himself, than he's probably a liability even if he's undeniably strong. A strong furniture mover has little business in a martial arts contest except as a living practice dummy. Kibito-Kai would have just been able to serve as cannon-fodder had he tried to help; and if he died, Beerus would have died as well and likely other serious problems would come to pass in the universe. Which is why the Supreme Kai isn't supposed to fight in serious contests at all. That's why old Kai told Kibito-Kai to hold back. He's much more helpful looking from above as a utility character.
Again Pink Supreme Kai who is usually purple in the Dragon ball anime adaptations in the these manga pages I see here and Gohan's orange bandana which is usually white in the Dragonball anime adaptations. Glad this Shin isn't perverted like old supreme kai 15th generation. Though Shin had a lot of Naivety when it came to Earth's strong heroes and Babidi's weak minions.
I feel these videos need a music to go in the background. Prefferably some soundtrack from DBZ
Man. I gotta give the Buu saga a proper rewatch
Maybe badidi Magic is hiding his men power levels
The Supreme Kai was a big disappointment. Piccolo was too scared to fight him at the world martial arts tournament yet Supreme Kai could do anything against Majin Buu
it's very tricky to make ideas on his power. we know he's alive ssj namek Goku but I feel comfortable enough to say he isn't above end of cell saga characters like perfect cell and ssj2 Gohan.
I've got it. He's called pickleo because he's green like a pickle.
Speaking of Inner monologues here Mike the other book series I read I don't want to anger you but let's just say the adaptations of Sword Art Online don't have inner monologues like the light novel books do that I have in my head at home in my spare time. Though I don't know why the adaptations don't have the inner monologues. Code Geass and The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzimiya had a few moments where you could actually hear what the characters were thinking though the sao books outnumber the adaptations these days
Because of this video a stupid question emerged in my mind, is Yakon (Majin) stronger than Frieza?
one moment Piccolo from the Buu Saga, who by then easily compares to Cell Games Vegeta, cowers in fear and drops the match, then later Kaioshin shits himself when seeing the likes of PuiPui and in DBS he gets damaged by Android 18 ...
About how Goku would fare against Yakon, he was doing fine in his base form and just turned into a Super Saiyan to make a point. If you take the guides into account to make the argument that he's weaker in base, you should also take the guides placing the reading of 3000 kili at 150 million Power Level, meaning he was suppressing himself when it was taken.
I think placing Shin around the level of Goku in the Cell Games is accurate. Gohan's power is roughly half of Goku's and Vegeta's in equal forms, and despite him knowing his paralysis ability outscaled his own fighting capabilities he doubted he could freeze the Saiyan because he reached Super Saiyan 2. I'd say Super Saiyan Gohan at this point in this saga is around Perfect Cell, so since he's below that level Cell Games Goku is the next strongest benchmark.
Well first allow me to commend you on the brilliant video. As ChatGPT was based on I, perhaps I can verbally illustrate an oxymoron I know.
What makes Kai's substantial isn't their power level, rather it is the rank of their being. In other words it is how Kais are important to the story. We can begin this the greatest of them all, the most heinous, criminal that took a great devil king as servant. King Kai, now as though the anime only fans they won't think much of this character. Yet King Kai is what set Dragon Ball Z Kai in motion. If you remember Kai's have two merits that sets them apart from all other characters. The first is their divine ki, in the English dubbed mystic ki. This ki isn't like any others in the entirety of dragon ball. Their ki is leagues purer than any other. It is this purity of their ki that sets them apart. Kais is able to live indefinitely by self-sustenance or a version of immortality. In the philosophy Toriyama uses martial arts and ki as the root of his power system. As such he explained it as never needing to eat food, get sick or age. Combine this with that their ki canfully restore an individual. I don't mean just healing like fixing some muscles or cuts. I mean they can fully materialize a body from seemingly nothing and multiples at that. Again in our world that means you can bring back the dead at will at will. This was the power of Kabuto, Supreme Kai's assistant who had to prove himself worthy could do. Yet even that didn't make him a Kai until he develops his signature. In Dragon Ball Z, not Kai expresses that each Kai held a signature power that set them apart. One Kai was said to be the swiftest in all the universe when she developed her Kai no suteppu or quick step of the kai. Another Kai stated they could control the elements with their Kai no chikara or Power of the Kai. Each and every Kai held a unique technique that set them apart. Most famously known is Kaioken or King Kai's fist. It's stated to be the universes strongest technique. It's how he earned the status King. Now anime only watchers wouldn't get the signifance of this move. Due to games, dubbing issues and the egoistical, people lost revernece of what the technique. In our world the Kaioken would allow one to momentarily multiply all bodily parameters. Again key words were all bodily parameters. This means you are able to see, move, think, act and strength is multipled. Let's say your max dead lift was 300lbs, with Kaiokenx2 that's 600lbs. Let's say your fastest mile is ten minutes. With Kaiokenx2 your moving twice as fast, so that's 1 mile every five minutes. Back in the anime we saw Goku's base power level was over 8,000. So a x4 that made his 32,000 for a moment. Vegeta stated proudly that his power level is exactly 30,000 and that's why he's elite. Vegeta never understood how Goku was always able to out power him. And the answer wasn't in super saiyan it was in technique. It wasn't until they fused did Vegeta learn why Goku was stronger than him. It was the Kaioken, sure if Vegeta has the higher base power level of 30,000. Goku can always surpass it in a crucial moment with this technique. The only cavaet is that without mystic ki, this technique destroys the body. Repeatedly using drastically sudden leaps in strength will break bones, tear muscles and inflame organs. The amount of pain to undergo means you also feel pain that much sharply as well. This creates what many martial artists call a zone, nirvana or enlightenment. Even though theirs a lot of pain, it isn't bad rather it's helping you hone your martial artists. With proper ki control Goku said he could use x20 kaioken on Namek. King Kai does the Kaioken passively. King Kai for his crimes of the Kaioken, as its a flawless technique with no limits. Meaning depending on your own pain tolerance, and factoring a crisis. The human body can exert 3~5 point of exertion though this last at first for briefest of a second. By honing your body you don't try to multiply power, but by refining it. So when you use power it flows easier. The easier the flow the longer teh duration an individual can maintain that state. Goku learned out of sheer desperation he reached a kaioken x20 and still couldn't defeat Frieza. I know super saiyan had become the iconic thing cause of art weebs or anime only fans. But in the manga the Kaioken was an important tool in his arsenal. Remeber each of the Z fighters shares the same master of King Kai. Each of them made it to the end of snake way and impressed King Kai. Meaning every fighter was able to raise and lower their power with this technique. Except Krillin and Gohan who had their inner potential tapped, which was limit breaker moment. For any who don't know what Limit Breaking is when a character suffers an extensive trauma, then in a moment of clarity develops beyond what they believed they could do. All Guru did was remove Krillin and Gohan's fear and pain. Without fear and pain, then they were able to perform leagues higher, but their not immortal. Cause when were referring to the Supreme Kai, who has the power to create anything he holds an understanding of. Such a power is why many seek to learn under him. Piccolo's clothes beam is an extent of this power. Piccolo inherited this power, because the Nameless Namekian was stated to be Kabuto rival in the mystic arts and study under the supreme Kai. The original japanese subbed dialogue was leagues better than western permissions at the time due to maturity. The East believe you treat a child with the respect of an adult. The west believes age determines maturity, so all cartoons were labeled PG-14. They really delved into the lore of dragon ball and how characters sync up. It's a feature that their showing in Dragon Ball Fighters. Which is actually a plot Toriyama approved so the game is canon to Kai. Just a few years after Buu rejoined society as Hercules disciple. Then it go overdown to character skins.
That is a good beard.
Before watching the video, I’d place him right around vegeta after coming out of the hyperbolic time changer
It's actually the hypersonic ryhme chamber
Idea for a video, "How SMART is Supreme Kai?"
Because even King Kai seemed to have more common sense than Shin. And Old Kai ridiculed Shin quite a bit for being naive as well.
Or maybe he is Not a fighter but he has Incredible Powerful Techniques because of his abilities against ssj2 Gohan and Fat Buu.
why did he smile like that at the start
I'd say he's at Buu Saga Super Vegeta, 1st stage. Majin Vegeta was already busted up, so that's why he got hurt by the blast. Imho
I miss when it was a group of yall doing videos like this you geekdom quaman ryhmestyle etc 🙁
Popo's pecking order, that's how strong Supreme Kai is
I'm guessing around but slightly below SSJ Goku and Vegeta. The fact he backed down after Goku threatened him (and I know its because he didn't want to risk giving Buu energy) show's he know's he can't easily defeat Goku and he was getting knocked around about the same as Gohan who we all know is below Goku and Vegeta at that point.
I thought Shin caught Bibidi off guard? Flash back in Buu Saga showed Bibidi use super speed to dodge a kid buu blast, but we never see Babidi move like that
22:37 I don’t think that’s the case, the thing with buu is he knows he can regenerate from seemingly nothing so he usually just plays around, or lets himself get hit until he gets mad or bored. Vegeta in the manga and anime pummels him to start the fight off but then buu gets mad and starts actually fighting. And starts kicking his ass. We know he’s stronger then vegeta, so logically he’s faster but he just lets himself get hit. And he didn’t deflect the attack or anything he just blew it up before it could cause more damage.
I don’t think shin was tanking the hits buu was just toying with him. Especially after just being awoken for thousands of years he’d want to play. He’s in his character really to
One thing too, in the anime it was stated that Majin Buu`s power was increasing as time went by. When he was first released from his shell, he was not as strong as the first time he fought SSJ3 Goku.
Pink shin is terrifying 😳
So supreme Kai and kibito’s colors in the manga are reversed in the anime? Lol