700hr Hunt player here. A good starting point, but I think there's a lot of bullet points that could've been brought up to guide the conversation. -What objective(s) are present to initiate conflict in the game? Hunt uses a monster "boss" bounty hidden in the map that are revealed by visiting other points of interest to eventually funnel players to the target(s). It takes time to fight and "banish" the target before you can collect and extract the bounty. The progression of the game is basically Slayer/Hide n' Seek> Juggernaut/Assault (needing to fight the boss then "plant" and defend the banishing)> Territory Control/Capture the Flag (gaining control around the compound's defenses and trying to steal or escort the bounties off map). -How is the map designed? What does player traversal look like and how do the points of interest guide combat? Most of the locations are rural late-1800s industrial and agricultural structures connected by open fields, marsh, and wooded areas. The use of shabbily constructed/maintained wooden buildings at most compounds allows a lot of peek and penetration opportunities. Most structures are very confined, making it easier to flush from the outside or section off parts with area denial tools and traps. Every location has to be reached on foot and the travel times act as a buffer for fights on the map to escalate with more parties (usually 2-4 minutes), stamina system reduces sprinting but can be negated with buffing items and traits. Most compound traversals are covered by foliage, but a few crossings are highly discouraged by lacking any cover and/or being flooded marsh which slows movement. -What is the progression cycle of the game? Are players grinding anything? Hunt uses a prestige system that requires regrinding weapon and profile xp to re-unlock weapons. At certain milestones you gain weapon unlocks or small buffs (increased mission xp, extra hunt dollars for gear) They're added points of interest around compounds in the form of workbenches that have chances to instantly unlock the next progression of your currently equipped item or several randomly locked progressions. -What is the balance between gear, character build, and player experience? I'd say Hunt's balance relies mostly on character and player experience (map knowledge definitely). The character only takes one match survived to really get up to speed with the bread and butter traits, but they've relaxed the economy even further by improving the free hunters you can recruit and adding better traits and gear to the randomly generated paid recruits. I wouldn't say the time to kill in Hunt is necessarily that fast, since only headshots one tap and most guns that nearly one shot you will only finish the job if you're not ready to duck back into cover or get penetrated through soft cover. Which brings on the last point, player experience. Knowing what consumables there are and how they're used to gain leverage is good, but knowing the maps are a lot more important since you'll be able to know flanking routes, line of sights, good penetration spots, and even guaranteed lootables in the form of armories or the stalker beetles which are essentially portable UAVs. There's a lot you can talk about in terms of monetization and meta progression, but I think that has mostly become industry standard at this point and few developers have really pushed new ground in it cause the current hamster wheel still works. What's more important is the restrictions the design team puts on weapons and level design. For Hunt, it's black powder weapons (fanning and levering guns are your full auto options, though, the game isn't that slow) and a mostly grounded post Civil War America with no teleports or transit options, but tons of PvE monsters to complicate movement by potentially giving your general position away to attentive players. Knowing that there will likely be the usual Bungie arsenal of shields, homing weapons, damage-type modifiers, teleports, and if it's being more faithful, "player momentum", the game is going to play vastly different than the likes of Hunt or Tarkov and is going to have to balance the few meta aspects of the genre accordingly. Unfortunately, I never played Destiny and only really did sizable portions of the marathon campaigns. Sounds like Destiny continued to chase Modern Warfare instead of sticking with the quirky console-first party arena shooter that Halo was.
Seeing some of Pt 2: the art style to visibility was a good segment. Definitely think the worst feelings in extraction shooters as they stand now are getting third partied without warning (I.e. getting headshot by a team who doesn't startle any crows on their approach) and the cross map walks. So much downtime. It'd be great if there was a way to interact with fights around objectives remotely (having a picture in picture drone that has some auto pilot feature, allowing you to surveil the fight during the walk over and maybe messing with things like doors and sound traps. It being cyberpunk/sci-fi definitely opens up a lot more creative options.
Thank you so much for such a thoughtful comment. I really love everything you brought up here, and these would absolutely be fantastic topics to elaborate on further. I definitely want to circle back on a video like this with Sadow later on to discuss more of our thoughts. I would love to use this as a reference at that point and credit you. If you're open to it, I would like to pick your mind as well since you articulate this so well. If you'd be interested in that, please consider reaching out to my email on my channel. Either way, thanks for this response and hopefully I can address my thoughts on some of these topics later on. Thanks!
@@jakethealright Thanks for the response and request, too! ? Past 30 minutes in this pt.1 You and Sadow did touch more on what I was expecting in terms of what Bungie would have to improve with respect to Hunt's matchmaking and community experience. There's a lot of related games I haven't played that Bungie is probably pooling ideas from (Fortnite, DMZ, Tarkov), but I could talk about what could be interesting. I had kind of lost interest in the Marathon return with the extraction shooter label, as well, but your coverage and lore vids have returned some confidence. Appreciate it!
haven't watched the video yet, but i think SBMM is what halo 3 and halo 5 had - which is good - but Apex, COD and Halo Infinite all use EOMM (engagement optimised matchmaking) which SUCKS. Destiny 2 doesn't do that atm which I think is a good sign.
Interesting, I'm pretty sure I talk about it in the video but I'm leaning towards doing a whole video about sbmm with more research so I can have a better grasp on it
If you play Destiny to prep for Marathon, please make sure you turn off mouse acceleration bungie called 'aim smoothing' in the .CFG file. It makes PVP playable
Yeah I'm wondering if this is going to just be one of the timelines or something. Honestly they could use that as like server resets/wipes in the future. They'd have to be careful with it, but it would be kinda neat to do the "this has been a failed timeline the whole time and we didn't know" then have an event where you're escaping the timeline to a new one or something. Bungie's storytelling can be nuts so I'm looking forward to what they come up with.
@@TheTruePacmanMG I've literally never been wrong in my life. Shut the fuck back up until called upon, directly, by me next time. Hold your breath while you wait.
I think some people are excited, but I understand that an extraction shooter isn't for everyone. If you liked the story from the original games, you should check out some of the stuff from the ARG. It adds some fun stuff to the original narrative and fills in some gaps in a cool way.
Yeah I wanted Bungie to just remake the Marathon games so we could get the same experience but better looking and a more fleshed out story with actual voice acting and cutscenes. I don’t play extraction shooters at all so I was bummed out that this is the route they are going.
@@jakethealright I loved the old games and enjoyed your coverage of the ARG. I can't stand this coping with the fact that the new game is going to be garbage, though.
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Check out the second part on Sadow's channel!
th-cam.com/video/jAO2UPzPeVU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gg33C_zyI0HUypL2
Thanks for having me on the channel Jake! It was a lot of fun to talk with you, I'm looking forward to convincing you to duo queue!
Ayoo Sadow?? Definitely worth taking him up on an offer to play with, he's a fun guy!
700hr Hunt player here. A good starting point, but I think there's a lot of bullet points that could've been brought up to guide the conversation.
-What objective(s) are present to initiate conflict in the game?
Hunt uses a monster "boss" bounty hidden in the map that are revealed by visiting other points of interest to eventually funnel players to the target(s). It takes time to fight and "banish" the target before you can collect and extract the bounty. The progression of the game is basically Slayer/Hide n' Seek> Juggernaut/Assault (needing to fight the boss then "plant" and defend the banishing)> Territory Control/Capture the Flag (gaining control around the compound's defenses and trying to steal or escort the bounties off map).
-How is the map designed? What does player traversal look like and how do the points of interest guide combat?
Most of the locations are rural late-1800s industrial and agricultural structures connected by open fields, marsh, and wooded areas. The use of shabbily constructed/maintained wooden buildings at most compounds allows a lot of peek and penetration opportunities. Most structures are very confined, making it easier to flush from the outside or section off parts with area denial tools and traps. Every location has to be reached on foot and the travel times act as a buffer for fights on the map to escalate with more parties (usually 2-4 minutes), stamina system reduces sprinting but can be negated with buffing items and traits. Most compound traversals are covered by foliage, but a few crossings are highly discouraged by lacking any cover and/or being flooded marsh which slows movement.
-What is the progression cycle of the game? Are players grinding anything?
Hunt uses a prestige system that requires regrinding weapon and profile xp to re-unlock weapons. At certain milestones you gain weapon unlocks or small buffs (increased mission xp, extra hunt dollars for gear) They're added points of interest around compounds in the form of workbenches that have chances to instantly unlock the next progression of your currently equipped item or several randomly locked progressions.
-What is the balance between gear, character build, and player experience?
I'd say Hunt's balance relies mostly on character and player experience (map knowledge definitely). The character only takes one match survived to really get up to speed with the bread and butter traits, but they've relaxed the economy even further by improving the free hunters you can recruit and adding better traits and gear to the randomly generated paid recruits. I wouldn't say the time to kill in Hunt is necessarily that fast, since only headshots one tap and most guns that nearly one shot you will only finish the job if you're not ready to duck back into cover or get penetrated through soft cover. Which brings on the last point, player experience. Knowing what consumables there are and how they're used to gain leverage is good, but knowing the maps are a lot more important since you'll be able to know flanking routes, line of sights, good penetration spots, and even guaranteed lootables in the form of armories or the stalker beetles which are essentially portable UAVs.
There's a lot you can talk about in terms of monetization and meta progression, but I think that has mostly become industry standard at this point and few developers have really pushed new ground in it cause the current hamster wheel still works. What's more important is the restrictions the design team puts on weapons and level design. For Hunt, it's black powder weapons (fanning and levering guns are your full auto options, though, the game isn't that slow) and a mostly grounded post Civil War America with no teleports or transit options, but tons of PvE monsters to complicate movement by potentially giving your general position away to attentive players.
Knowing that there will likely be the usual Bungie arsenal of shields, homing weapons, damage-type modifiers, teleports, and if it's being more faithful, "player momentum", the game is going to play vastly different than the likes of Hunt or Tarkov and is going to have to balance the few meta aspects of the genre accordingly. Unfortunately, I never played Destiny and only really did sizable portions of the marathon campaigns. Sounds like Destiny continued to chase Modern Warfare instead of sticking with the quirky console-first party arena shooter that Halo was.
Seeing some of Pt 2: the art style to visibility was a good segment. Definitely think the worst feelings in extraction shooters as they stand now are getting third partied without warning (I.e. getting headshot by a team who doesn't startle any crows on their approach) and the cross map walks. So much downtime. It'd be great if there was a way to interact with fights around objectives remotely (having a picture in picture drone that has some auto pilot feature, allowing you to surveil the fight during the walk over and maybe messing with things like doors and sound traps. It being cyberpunk/sci-fi definitely opens up a lot more creative options.
Thank you so much for such a thoughtful comment. I really love everything you brought up here, and these would absolutely be fantastic topics to elaborate on further. I definitely want to circle back on a video like this with Sadow later on to discuss more of our thoughts. I would love to use this as a reference at that point and credit you. If you're open to it, I would like to pick your mind as well since you articulate this so well. If you'd be interested in that, please consider reaching out to my email on my channel. Either way, thanks for this response and hopefully I can address my thoughts on some of these topics later on. Thanks!
@@jakethealright Thanks for the response and request, too! ? Past 30 minutes in this pt.1 You and Sadow did touch more on what I was expecting in terms of what Bungie would have to improve with respect to Hunt's matchmaking and community experience. There's a lot of related games I haven't played that Bungie is probably pooling ideas from (Fortnite, DMZ, Tarkov), but I could talk about what could be interesting. I had kind of lost interest in the Marathon return with the extraction shooter label, as well, but your coverage and lore vids have returned some confidence. Appreciate it!
I have a love/hate relationship with SBMM when I play COD. I dropped 27 kills in SND, and haven't won a game in 3 days.
Makes the win not as sweet knowing you're about to pay for it
haven't watched the video yet, but i think SBMM is what halo 3 and halo 5 had - which is good - but Apex, COD and Halo Infinite all use EOMM (engagement optimised matchmaking) which SUCKS. Destiny 2 doesn't do that atm which I think is a good sign.
Interesting, I'm pretty sure I talk about it in the video but I'm leaning towards doing a whole video about sbmm with more research so I can have a better grasp on it
@@jakethealright I'd definitely be interested in a video like that.
OMG yes please! That'd be really cool. Maybe do a chapter for it inside a broader video about Marathon's PVP?
Loved this interview!! 👏👏
If you play Destiny to prep for Marathon, please make sure you turn off mouse acceleration bungie called 'aim smoothing' in the .CFG file. It makes PVP playable
Love seeing Sadow's PFP is Craig lol
berry good
I'm wondering if Marathon Infinity is cannon because the game sorta ends with the end of time
Yeah I'm wondering if this is going to just be one of the timelines or something. Honestly they could use that as like server resets/wipes in the future. They'd have to be careful with it, but it would be kinda neat to do the "this has been a failed timeline the whole time and we didn't know" then have an event where you're escaping the timeline to a new one or something. Bungie's storytelling can be nuts so I'm looking forward to what they come up with.
Bungie putting some Valorant clown program manager in charge of this game killed it.
Valorant is fun. H8rs gonna hate
@@GeTMiXeDuP770 only fuckboys default to the term "haters" when their little cuntass feelings get hurt over consumerism 🤣
A black and white take with no facts known. How internet cool guy of you.
@@TheTruePacmanMG I've literally never been wrong in my life. Shut the fuck back up until called upon, directly, by me next time. Hold your breath while you wait.
Does anyone actually want an extraction shooter instead of a real Marathon game with a story and characters, besides you shills?
I think some people are excited, but I understand that an extraction shooter isn't for everyone. If you liked the story from the original games, you should check out some of the stuff from the ARG. It adds some fun stuff to the original narrative and fills in some gaps in a cool way.
Yeah I wanted Bungie to just remake the Marathon games so we could get the same experience but better looking and a more fleshed out story with actual voice acting and cutscenes. I don’t play extraction shooters at all so I was bummed out that this is the route they are going.
I do! And I'm kinda excited they are going this route. Something fresh and new
@@GeTMiXeDuP770 Well I hope all two of you really make this game successful lmao
@@jakethealright I loved the old games and enjoyed your coverage of the ARG. I can't stand this coping with the fact that the new game is going to be garbage, though.