MLB Just REWROTE History, Is It The Right Move?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
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There are records from China and Korea that will eventually break threw?
ITalk.....it sounds like your a little R.....?
I'm black and have love and respect for the men that played in the Negro Leagues. I'm also sympathetic of their exclusion from participating in MLB, but this is absolutely stupid. The Negro Leagues and MLB are separate entities like the NFL and CFL or weight classes in combat sports, acting in theater and film, etc. Let's stop this nonsense!
Not like weight classes, more like different fight promotions
THANK YOU! I appreciate your logic and rational! Which that's what stats are about--logic.
It's a damn shame there was a separate league to begin with, however, the fact is they were separate and it simply doesn't make since to place the stats from totally different leagues/entities alongside one another. They never competed against one another except occasional exhibition games. They didn't play the same number of games, they played different styles of baseball--some of it was more akin to Globetrotters basketball compared to NBA, and needless to say, they dont put Globetrotters stats alongside NBA stats.
Anyways. I can't go on about it because it is just so irrational. And again, I hate that blacks and other minorities were kept out of MLB to begin with. But they were. And we can't change that. And putting their stats from another totally different league doesn't change it.
And P.S. Doing this, in my opinion, actually takes away from much of the mystique and glory of the Negro Leagues itself.
Anyways, thanks again for adding logic to this debate, because there has been very little of it.
Amen, my man! You said it perfectly.
It's not MLB records. Its baseball records
What does skin color have to do with your opinion, do you feel less than? Stop looking for validation. The clowns that love your comment would be the same ones hating you if you said the opposite. You are the type they refer to when they say "all skin folk ain't kin folk"
It's also worth noting that Babe Ruth and the players of his time only played 7 teams total PER YEAR. I would bet quite a lot of money that facing only 7 teams instead of 29 makes it a lot easier to learn the strategies of the other pitchers and adjust to them as a star hitter.
And only playing 60 games per year makes it a lot easier to have higher numbers as well… which Gibson only played 50-60 game seasons… works both ways.
Lol without video reviewing capabilities to analytically break down pitchers and pitches this is just not true lol. There were 16 teams, so yes, only 7 per league m. But this was in a time period where the phone was still being ironed out as an invention lol? Making a 16 team countrywide organization an incredible feat. You’re not very good at thinking in relativity lol
@@BabyDoIIx Do you think Gibson would have rather played more games in the MLB? You're making it sound like the NLB was just an option.
@@jameskaihatu6209 his choice is irrelevant. You think people choose to not be able to go to college because they come from a poor family and have to get a job to support them? That was so dumb my mind is actually in pain so thanks for making me need some aspirin you dork
@@jameskaihatu6209that's not what @babydoll is saying. They're talking about the numbers. There's no insinuating going on with their comment. Just numbers.
I respect the stats from those days and why they are significant but WHY MAKE THINGS MORE CONFUSING 🤷♂️🤦♂️ this seems like MLB is just trying to pander and it's disappointing
Thats exactly what they are doing. They are trying to earn brownie points with the woke crowd. "Oh look how inclusive we are." History is there to learn from. Not rewrite.
What's so hard to understand? All they did was put the stats from the top-level black league and top-level white league together on a list
they want 75% of MLB to be black like NBA and NFL and the managers and the owners for that matter. They need to be told "no" for a change
Nah, you're just racist. That's why you think it's pandering 😂
@DdDd-ck1gq That's because there was a racist color barrier. I can't think of a barrier that keeps college players from reaching a higher level
So now do we strip Jackie Robinson of his Rookie of the Year award? Because now his rookie year was 1945, not 1947.
THAT is an excellent point. But the answer to them would be nope. Because they’re doing this for virtue signaling… so anything negative about it they’ll simply ignore.
I know its probably not popular but I am not in agreement with it as the Negro League was not absorbed into the Major Leagues. I do not believe that the Negro League as whole was on par with Major League baseball. Hank Aaron was a .360 hitter in the negro leagues and .280 hitter his rookie season in MLB. Jackie Robinson .375 in negro league, .297 in major league. The list goes on.
The problem is that the Negro League stats are not 100% accurate. They just don’t have box score on record so they recovered about 75%. This is a record book where accurate numbers matter, so you can’t have stats in there that are kind of accurate. MLB Hall of Fame has inducted all the great Negro Leaguers since 1972 so it’s not like MLB has ignored them. I just think with the Negro League stats integration, the record book is more here-say than official.
opinions dont make anything important or relevant.
MLB in 1944: We don't want black players in our organization!
MLB in 2024: Actually black players were part of our organization the entire time!!
Leave it the MLB to come up with the dumbest possible solution, every damn time. No one will ever take these records seriously, for the low number of games per season alone.
Not the organization. The top level among black Americans as opposed to that among white Americans
@@TyrannoJoris_RexOnly played 60 games per year
woke pushing people all got missed by covid and worse. not everyones opinion on earth matters nor could ever matter. doesnt matter what anyone thinks it matters what people do
To atone for heightism and baseball's historic bigotry against short people, Eddie Gaedel is now baseballs all time record holder in OBP.
Him only playing 50-60 games per year is a major issue. Less games allows numbers like AVG/OPS etc to be WAY higher. It’s muncher harder to hold that up over 162 games vs 60…
If you don’t qualify, you don’t qualify. Let’s stop trying to force to “correct” history.
I'd probably have to disagree with that.
From 1936 - 1939, he played exactly 162 games with 62 home runs with a 1.309 OPS.
It's obviously fair to say he wouldn't keep up that production for a full season, but if he consistently would hit like 15 home runs in 40 games every year of his career, he could have easily hit 50 every year in a full season.
If he was allowed to play in MLB he easily would have been one of the best players over 162 game season. But he wasn't, was he?
@@1980sActionCopKaPowChopOfSteel so in 3 years he played one full major league season. Do you also think that if you have a 4.0 GPA your freshman year of college that should be good enough for your diploma? lol. Damn you kids need Jesus.
@@chris42069 you have ZERO way to prove that. Stop it. Injuries could have happened. He could have gotten burnt out playing 3 freaking times the amount of games a year and not been able to sustain that same level of production. We get it. You’re a gays for Palestine supporter and your pronouns are fucking/retarded. Now go away and stop peddling your bogus ass DEI nonsense you clown show wearing bafoon
@@chris42069you literally have no way of knowing that, yet you declare it definitively
That "Ty Cobb" reaction LOL!!
It bullshit, Ty Cobb wasn’t a racist. Al stump lie about that
No because you've raised the bar by lowering the bar. Vargas now owns single season records for 30 games played where as anyone else has to beat his pace for 5 times as long. Keeping them seperate allowed everyone to shine for their body of work
The Cobb thing is unfair. It's been demonstrated that he was not a monster.
Uh... he was pretty miserable. My Grandfather played with him and said he was a horrible person.
@@laartworknot even gonna question the source, that sounds legendary
Love his dropkicking the catcher pic. That's how you play the game.
Absolutely irrelevant. All they count is his GAME. Same with Bonds, he’s a known A HOLE too. As was A ROD, and many more. It makes no difference though
Thank you. It has been debunked many times that he was some kind of horrible monster.
I'm a Cards fan, but I had no idea Bob Gibson forced rule changes. Thanks for sharing that insight.
he's also the only post segregation african american starting pitcher in the hall of fame.
@@John_Smith777I don’t think that’s still true since Ferguson Jenkins was inducted in 1991. I believe they are the only AA pitchers with no NLB experience in the BBHoF…CC Sabathia seems a lock to become the third…
@@tomhershenson2492 my comment is a semantical truth, and makes for a good trivia question. jenkins is canadian, and the also enshrined lee smith was a reliever. i also agree sabathia seems likely to join him.
Denny McClain won 31 games. Luis Tiant had a 1.6 ERA. The AL batting leader hit a hair above .300.
Gibson was not the reason for the change. He’s just its symbol. MLB wanted more offense.
@@Baseball_Therapy-hb1dh Good point. Gibson was a great pitcher, but not some superman that was light years ahead of everyone else.
Baseball going woke again…are they going to move the all-star game?
Exactly. Please keep that fact alive. MLB should never be left off the Hook for that decision.
Define "woke"
@@TyrannoJoris_Rex A busybody. Someone with too much free time on their hands.
@@SugaryCoyote Too much free time on their hands to do what?
@@TyrannoJoris_Rex To worry about other people's business.
The NLB didn’t have a long enough season, and had too many issues with record keeping for stats to justify inclusion into the MLB records. Have the reported numbers in the shrine that is Cooperstown, but they aren’t the same league. You’d have a better chance with NPB, but should really only count for those Japanese players who played in both NPB and MLB.
Agreed, best comment I've seen on it
We must learn from history... not try to "fix" it
Bingo.
What about this is fixing history? You're just putting the black ball players' records and white ball players' records on one list
@DdDd-ck1gq What evidence is there that the black league was worse than the white league in terms of talent?
> why would an amateur league be better than the pros
I bet you think the Harlem Globetrotters are stars as well
This whole virtue signaling bullshit is getting out of control. THE NEGRO LEAGUE IS NOT MLB so why the hell would it count towards major league stats. Of course, nobody is saying how they really feel because they're worried they'll look racist. Ty Cobb is the batting average king, and Bonds is the single season ops king. Idc what the mlb says. They're just trying to make up for their racist past by ruining the legacy of our sports legends
No one likes Barry though
Ty Cobb was a racist jerk… and the Negro Leagues couldn’t be the MLB because of the racist owners
You forgot to mention that Barry Bonds is no longer the all time home run leader in the MLB
Which was he even considered that by MLB?
@@mrswizzlestickz2646yes. He is or was mlbs official leader for hrs, single season hrs, walks, single season walks, IBBs, and single season IBBs. Let me remind you barry bonds never tested positive in an MLB steroids/ PEDs drug test, largely because they never tested for PEDs ever during his entire career.
Negro league players absolutely deserve respect and recognition. Many of them belong in the baseball HOF, given a special status somewhere between being a baseball pioneer and having a HOF career. However you can’t merge the record books. Due to segregation the leagues were separate and they need to be judged as such. Although the root for this reasoning lies in immoral and discriminatory laws, you can’t just act like it didn’t happen. In terms of talent the negro leagues were probably like AAA or NPB, yes they had players that could’ve dominated the MLB but the same can be said for super prospects and foreign players who tear up their respective leagues. Negro league talent should be getting recognition, but not at the expense of MLB history. If MLB really cared they would’ve campaigned and marketed toward the great players and their legacies, not just stain the integrity of the record books by thoughtlessly combining them. As you said the length of the season was way different than MLB. None of the counting stats can possibly add up to be comparable. The only way you can justify this is by judging based on a rate basis, which the records have never really done. If the records were going to be combined it should’ve been done a long time ago, when players and eye witnesses could actually vouch for the level of talent in the negro leagues. Unfortunately all of those people are dead and we can never really know the answers to important questions which I think need to have been answered before doing something like this.
SO if this is the case then they need to count Ichiro Suzuki's hits in Japan as MLB hits too. He would be the greatest hitter of all time.
He is.
Exactly.
@@laartwork Ted Williams
Blacks are the recipients of more charity than any other group in the world and its not ending anytime soon. You can tell they appreciate it by the gracious behavior and many thanks.
Why should they? He wasn't barred from playing in the MLB.
Separate competitions, end of argument. This is 1984 level rewriting of history
feels like a minefield not worth traversing.
You arent a racist for having an opinion if that's what you are getting at if it's not racially charged.
coward
man up. tell the woke vagines to piss off
May as well just include the WNBA stats in the NBA statbook as well
true
That Ty Cobb joke was hilarious 😂
Not really.
@LouieKaboom it was, quit being a crybaby.
Everyone already recognizes that the Negro League did have some of the greatest that played the game. The problem is you are comparing talent using a totally different talent pool as a basis for comparison. This was a move by MLB to atone for its sins from over 50 years ago.
Also to get rid of Cobb and Ruth's Valhalla records and essentially wipe them out of the records books because they are inconveniently problematic for todays Uber progressive baseball data geeks.
*NO*
Almost all his stats are taken from STORIES, due to records not being kept in the league he was in. - such as a paper saying “HE NEVER HIT BELOW .500 in a year” lol yeah OKAY….
Also, they only played 60-70 games per year. That’s like taking what JUDGE has done from the start of the year till now, & count it for the whole season. That’s not how it works. Gibson DIDNT play enough games per season to qualify for these records.
And again… most of his numbers are based on stories…
So no. And most just won’t accept it anyways.
People need to stop making it just about race it a person says no. It’s about the facts.
If you actually bothered to look into it, you'd see MLB only counted games which had an official box score.
The problem is, this isn’t about facts, it is about race. Otherwise you are accurate.
@@chris42069the Harlem Globetrotters also have “official” data. A box score from an exhibition game the team was supposed to win isn’t a legitimate sporting contest
Ty cobb be wildin
What about the Japanese Major League? The Japanese have been playing baseball about as long as we have. I am sure that there were many major league caliber players in Japan before they started playing in the US. Sandaharu Oh ring a bell? Perhaps MLB needs to separate the post 1950 era from the 1901-1949 era they way we differentiate the pre 20th Centurt from the so-called modern era.
Generally I enjoy your content, but I think you are being dismissive of a lot of baseball history in this video. I'm not arguing that Hugh Duffey should be an everyday name, but why are you so concerned with Ruth, Cobb, and everyone else before '47 if you don't care about stats before integration?
This is a rich topic to tap into, it may be worth exploring this in a more extensive way.
Dude, enough with the Ty Cobb bs. We get it. Dude was racist. Fun fact: most of you would’ve been back then too. You can’t take the attitude towards racism today and apply it to a decade ago. Doesn’t work like that. Chances are, a good majority of you would’ve been racist just like him. Hell, you don’t think there were racist for the dodgers that came around after playing with Jackie? Unfortunately, that’s just how it was then. Hell, my family is Japanese. My mother, aunt and uncle all were in school in the 60’s and 79’s, and they faced racism too. Granted, it was dying down towards the 80’s and on, and now, we’re in a much better place. But stop acting sanctimonious. You clearly don’t know what it was completely like back then, so you can’t say you’d have been different. Also, this Gibson nonsense is dumb. He was so damn good, but we can never know what he would’ve been like against MLB pitching, in a 162 game season. It’s just not in the realm of possibility. Ty Cobb is the all time career BA leader in MLB. Gibson is the all time career leader in the NLB. This is virtue signaling at its worst. As a part Japanese American, they better make Ichiro the all time hits leader, surpassing Rose if this is what they’re gonna do.
True… one thing that drives me nuts is all the, ‘I would’ve stood up to Hitler, I would’ve fought for the North, I would’ve opposed the Catholic Church, stood up to Rome’ etc etc. which is easy to say right now. They act as if people in history were less intelligent, or more evil or something.
100 yrs from now… you can guarantee that people will be looking back on us saying the same stuff. What’s normal life to us today will be insane to humans in the future.
People love to judge history and pretend they’d of done better
Doesn't make him any less of a sack o' shit. Just means all those people back then were sacks o' shit
😂😂😂😂
You should really do some research before you drag Ty Cobbs name through the mud.
The record books should be MLB only. Heck as a kid I hit 12 inside the park home runs, why not put that in the record books?
Separate leagues need separate record books.
As a black man, I can say this and get away with it. No person who spent a career in the Negro Leagues should be in the MLB HOF. Why? It wasn't Major League Baseball, that's why. You don't correct an injustice with an injustice. Let's use Josh Gibson as an example. First, only a handful of black reporters covered the NL, and they were known to engage in wild exaggerations, if not outright lies to increase enthusiasm. Therefore, there's no way to ensure that Gibson's numbers are accurate. Next, the parks in which NL games were played were nothing like MLB parks - even then. Third, even Jackie Robinson was critical the lack of sobriety and professionalism within the NL. Truth be told, the NL was really no different than the Harlem Globetrotters.
Josh Gibson batted .466 and didn't even lead the league one year. You can't tell me he did that against major league competition and it was a 30 or 40 game season. It isn't the same as an MLB season. Plus, how does he even qualify for career rate records when he only has 2500 official plate appearances? You can count them as official stats, but its not enough to qualify for things like the career batting average leader
They should just come out with there own separate categories and let people compare them but don’t merge them together
The issue is stats like BA and OPS like Josh played a lot less games a year then Barry so like that doesn’t work. It’s hard cause the amount of games played is so different that it will affect stats. 8! 2020 Juan Soto had a 1185 ops I really don’t think if that was a 162 game season that his ops would be anywhere near that high. And thats ok it’s just 162 games almost in a row will give u different BA, SLG, OPS, OBP stats then like 60 games in a row so that needs to be looked at
I feel like those records should stay separate cuz it shows the places we’ve come from and they should be displayed beside mlb history
The Ty Cobb bit was amazing lol
I’m pretty sure the record for batting average was actually Levi Meyerle in 1871 with a .492
They’re talking about career avg
@@BabyDoIIx At one point in the video he says Hugh Duffy has the single season record for batting average with .440
The National Association isn’t a recognized major league, though.
That Ty Cobb reaction was CRAZY bro
No its not. Is it tragic they didn't get to play? Yes. Were they better players? Also probably yes. Fid they play in MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL? No. You need to play in MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL to hold record for Major league Baseball. Thats like saying if there was a womans pro softball league and someone hit 90 homers in a season in that span that would be the record.
Also, i cannot STAND how many stupid people there are in this issue. The people that just cry "oh youre just racist" without actually making a point are brainless.
Except that's not true.
MLB has already incorporated the stats of leagues they absorbed.
Those stats weren't compiled as part of the MLB
The biggest issue for me is he only played 50-60 games per year. That makes it way easier to have a higher AVG & OPS etc…
It’s like a player hitting .520 after 3 weeks in the year and counting that for the season… ridiculous.
@@BabyDoIIx yup. Another issue. Joey Votto i believe hit .410 in the 2nd half of a season if i recall right. Guys can have extended hot streaks. And its not like every single player in the Negro leagues was better. They were probably beating up on less superior pitching alot of the time.
@@zackaryhaselius2226it’s ridiculous… and if we can all just be honest.. this is only being done because they’re trying to “correct” a dark time in history. But that’s not how we handle history, trying to rewrite it. People had these Gibson stories going back 50 years, and they only just now wanna count them…
@@BabyDoIIx History isnt there to be rewritten. Its there to learn from. This is pandering to the woke crowd. Clear and simple.
They should have an * by their records. Show them but they should be separate. I think before Jackie Robinson the stats should also have an *.
"Only 75% accurate" You can't make a definitive decision with only 75% accuracy. I know. They did. With that, Japanese stats now need to be included.
If you never heard of Josh Gibson you never enriched yourself in baseball history
The cut to the Adam Driver bit was hilarious
They should add the Puerto Rican Winter League stats!!
So every world baseball classic team and their respective leagues need to count too ?
There is definitely racial bias to how some people feel but like he said segregation was real and in full effect. There was no other American baseball league that was recognized as a major league outside of the Negro Leagues. There were players better than Jackie Robinson still playing in the Negro League when he crossed the color barrier. But this whole happening makes me want to research how his integration further empowered other negro league players to play.
Nope,wrong.
I don't like this move because it feels more like righting a wrong by pretending the wrong never existed. We can celebrate the Negro League leaders and Major League leaders before the barrier was broken but if we don't make that clear distinction that baseball was very much separated by race/color, we're just going to be teaching kids that we were always this happy sport where everyone was invited to play. It's like being 40 years old and erasing your bad grades from college and being like "I now know all the material from the classes I failed" and putting 4.0 GPA on your resume because you eventually learned the material much later. You can't just pretend we were all accepted, we can celebrate how the game is unified now while celebrating both NLB and MLB separately when they were separate.
Hank Aaron will always be the home run king, Cy Young will always be the king of the mound, and Rey Ordonez the greatest defensive player of all time (notwithstanding that he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat...)
I dont feel this is the right move at all. While it is important to recognize the past. Going and putting the leauge most people of color used to have to play in where they were mainly playing in smaller parks and not staduims and comparing it to the mlb isnt one to one. Also if we go by the logic that some people in the comments are going with the minor leauge stats should apply to a hall of fame case as well. Before you say its not the same thing , if we are comparing the leagues i think it is only fair to also compare the playing feilds and schedules. If you play 162 you are going to be dead tired if u play 60 thet isnt to bad. For those of you saying the over 162 numbers are great are we just going to ingore the fact that must prouected 162 numbers for a season ever do really happen
Major league records should be for those who played in the major leagues...
If we're gonna do this, are we gonna acknowledge that Fleetwood Walker was the first black player in MLB?
To me it depends on how you look at the mission statement of the organization I guess.
I think I view records comparing various leagues more the charge of an independent 3rd party than MLB. So someone like Baseball Reference or The Hall of Fame is the more appropriate venue to determine categories of records for all of North American Baseball or World Baseball etc. MLB as an entity only really is the custodian of the various leagues that were officially run by or folded into it, and as such I don't really give a shit what they say their records are, I can look up the stats myself.
As for legitimacy, I def think there are issues and nuances comparing rate statistics over sample sizes as low as Lyman Bostock's 84 Plate Appearances in 1941 leading to a batting average of .465 which BR is listing as 3rd best all time. But they do provide the context with the year and plate appearances to let you know the circumstances under which it was accomplished.
But realistically do any us actually believe any of the 58 batting averages above .400 which we never were alive to see is more impressive than Tony Gywnn's .393 in 1994?
I think this change interests me more than anything because it makes me question how much does the difference in PA change things. I would def expect that something as small as 84 PA could produce batting averages over .500 if we went through enough players game logs, but i'm more skeptical that the larger ones like 300-400 PA are that much off a 600-700 PA season. I think there's an opportunity here to get really nerdy about stats that I hadn't considered before which is exicting.
The commenters on this video are ... something. You don't think the NLB players would have welcomed playing the same schedule as MLB? Did you think they had that option? Also - the USA existed prior to the Emancipation Declaration and (despite the actions of various governors) we study that history as well, so it seems odd to say "yeah, I don't really recognize MLB prior to 1948."
College players are now paid professional athletes, and they aren't allowed to play in the majors. Age discrimination? Should college kids stats be combined now too?
If anything, I’d rather MLB say that they were not recognizing pre-integration records
Some of the comments on this are fairly disgusting. I don't think the stats should be absorbed into MLB stats, as I personally think this does whitewash the historical record. I do, however, think the documentaries and broadcast conversations about baseball should specify. For example, the talk about the records held by players in MLB's league shouldn't be touted as the best whatever "in baseball history" if they were only the best record in MLB.
It's such a disservice to NLB and its rich history of players and teams to suddenly pretend all things were equal. Why does baseball find it so difficult to give these stories alongside each other and highlight the achievements of both leagues? Satchel Paige came into MLB at 42 and was nearly 50 when he played his last all-star game. NLB players came into MLB and immediately became MVP's.
Any student of baseball knows these guys were amazing baseball players, why act like they weren't intentionally excluded from MLB because skin? I'm not about giving MLB that pass. Live with your history. Own it. Show how much progress you've made and when you talk about baseball greats, include NLB players. It isn't rocket surgery.
Screw the NLB it wasn’t nothing compared to dem whites.yessum
Are they…? I actually haven’t seen one nasty comment in this video tbh. Idk if you’re just saying that… or if you mean comments in general about this… but everyone made great points
@@BabyDoIIx The people equating NLB to minor leagues or beer leagues, even, were not making great points. Or those who make bizarre arguments about this being like forcing Japan and South Korea to include the stats of each others' players in their own national organizations. So, no, not everyone made great points.
I took my like back when you said you weren't sure about Gibson passing Cobb. But I'M SURE that Gibson would have gone all the way off on Cobb's records if he COULD play MLB that's the difference. Those white boys didn't give them a choice. They were intentionally suppressed and pushed down as inferior when we know that's not true. We'll never know if it's true sadly. Satchel Paige exists as a legend in video games to us but he played at 40 something for MLB. Imagine if he put up up stats until age 47? That's all we can do is imagine. If we can count Ruth and Wagner going off on farmers. We SHOULD absolutely count leagues of full on athletes that genuinely came in to MLB and LITERALLY CHANGED EVERYTHING ABOUT BASEBALL. Jackie Robinson wasn't the best player in the negro leagues but by his third season he was the best player in MLB. we'll never know how good they'd be against the subpar talent discrepancy in the MLB.
Which is a damn shame. This is awesome. It rights a wrong that never should have existed and I'm disappointed in you for thinking anything otherwise. The fact that people justified this for so long shouldn't dismiss the level of play they brought. What they did for the game is obvious. And by the time Gibson came around baseball was fully integrated and the game thrived and grew into something spectacular. To think they could have done that so much earlier and their racist upbringings prevented it just cause people were born a certain color. Fuck that. Anybody that doesn't agree with this really needs to open up a God damn objective baseball history book.
M:B probably wasn't really black-integrated until the 60's or maybe 70's. So the poster of this video should dismiss or diminish the game from a point long after 1947. That means no more Jackie Robinson celebrations.
Ty Cobb advocated for integration. Do your homework.
When the Androids take over:
It’s our records now!
Actually Ty Cobb probably wouldn’t had reacted that way to Gibson taking over his record …while he was a volatile man on the field he actually spoke positively of integration of baseball in an interview which can be easily found on TH-cam…much of the Cobb being racist narrative came from a book written by a Al Stump which has been widely discredited in recent times…not to say Cobb hung out with black people but I don’t think he was some hard care racist as I use to believe after seeing the movie..
Matt Bahr had the most sacrifice bunts as well now.Wow- who da thunk it?
Are you in New England?
I think it was a huge mistake. while the players in that league where impressive, they didnt play in the MLB. some of those games were in parking lots.
They didn't play in MLB because of racism, they were not allowed to - not because they weren't good enough.
All the more reason to do this
Bro... you act like they were allowed to. What about all the great pitchers that Babe Ruth never had to face because he didn't have to pay in the Negro leagues.
I don’t think so, it shouldn’t have been combined. It’s alright to include them, but a lot of these guys did not play long or enough or play at all in the mlb in order to be the all time leaders or considered for those records.
It makes no difference to me. Whenever i go to baseball ref i ignore whoever has a s picture in black and white
cool?
Martin dihigo = 🐐
Member of 5 hall of fames and excelled in everything
This is straight up MLB allowing contemporary politics permeate the game. Negro Leagues Stats are not in the same plane as MLB Stats, it's just that simple. Their seasons were 60sh games, that's uncompatible with MLB. But most importatly, Mr Gibson (Who is a Hall of Famer) had an increidible .372 average IN 2,168 AT BATS...........THAT'S THE EQUIVALENT OF ONLY 4 SEASONS............YOU JUST CAN'T COMPARE THAT TO MR. COBBS BODY OF WORK WHO HAD 11,440 AT BATS.......THAT'S MADNESS. For context, again, between Mr. Cobb betwen 1909 and 1913 in 2,082 at bats averaged .401. This move from MLB is just too selective, and actually suspecious. Same apply for the Lifetime OPS with Babe Ruth..........I mean what's gonna come next? Sadaharu Oh who hit 868HRs in the Japanese league (where stats are much more compatilbe with MLB than the Negro Leagues) is gonna be the all time HR king in the MLB because it's commercially beneficial in these times?...........This is crazy, doesn't make sense, it's plain out wrong!!!
There were multiple leagues in the 1900 hundred that should be incorporated into the currently "Major League" statistics. 99% percent of Major League successors no longer exist but should be considered.
The batting averages, on base percentages and slugging stats of those Negro Leagues stars were attained in a fraction of the plate appearances customarily considered for qualification. One thing is to incorporate those stats into MLB records and another to place them among the leaders in those offensive departments without considering the abysmal difference in the amount of plate appearances. Even if those stats are accurate and reliable they do not amount to the established standards.
Rac is my spirit animal
Mlb needs to stop caving in
MLB needed the attention, so they did this.
This is fucking stupid. But if they're doing this, then Ichiro is absolutely the hit king instead of Pete Rose.
Josh Gibson the true GOAT 🐐
No, you’ll need to put all the Japanese stats in as well
Thank you I told my wife this yesterday also we should the mexican leuque or what ever foreign leuque stats as well
This doesn't make sense tho considering Negro leagues was AMERICAN baseball, and MLB is American baseball
ah yes because the negro league was in japan
That a different country
Same if you are going count another pro league then they all should count it’s only right
DEI overload!
It was unfortunate, but the truth was that they were two separate leagues. Why not keep the stats of two separate leagues separate? Make Josh Gibson the BA leader in the Negro Leagues and Ty Cobb the BA leader in the MLB. We don’t know how Gibson would have played in MLB and vice versa, so it is simply confusing to combine them.
Regardless of what MLB has to say, Barry Bonds is still the homerun king.
I think since both leagues were different leagues that they should be treated as baseball records instead of MLB records. Similar to how the basketball hall of fame celebrates more than just legendary NBA players
That way negro league legends can still be respected and it won't cause confusion mixing stats with leagues that unfortunately didn't crossover due to segregation
Didn’t an Old satchel Paige win Rookie of the year ? … he struck people out and was dominate in both leagues
Satchell Page was a monster he was not a normal player at all
Its sad we’re in the stage of history where politics invades everything.
Glad they count. If they didn’t segregate the league, this wouldn't be a problem now. Ty cobb had more train conductors and plumbers to hit off of back then.
Please, help me to understand, why is this happening, because as far as i understand MLB is the union of the AMERICAN league and the NATIONAL league, so did MLB bought the rights of the Negro league or they already had it and didnt use it? Why os this happening
Well here's the thing, these guys WOULD have been in the mlb. Whether y'all like it or not.
Old stats are ridiculous anyways. The game was completely different. So this is fine.
Stats Pre-WWII should be taken with a grain of salt regardless
It sure as hell is not,were ate run scored and rbis!!!!
I just think it’s pretty dumb, I do think the history of the negro leagues should be recognized and honored, but this is way too far. I mean hell, look at the NBA, even though they absorbed entire teams from the ABA and incorporated new ideas from it they don’t even recognize their stats or accolades even when some very notable NBA players made their start there
Way to miss the mark with the Ty Cobb joke.
Surely the comments won't be insufferable.
To me, it just reinforces the fact that baseball statistics never has been and never will be an apples-to-apples comparison.
oh wow this isn't some diversity initiative.
Love Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, etc...they played in the Negro Leagues against some pretty weak talent. To have them top charts of any stat is a reach.
And Ruth played against plumbers. Without integration both leagues weren’t talented top to down
Terrible point.
I know a lot of the guys who played in the Negro leagues were monsters who (would) have paved solid mlb careers, but there were also many barnstormers and amateurs likely playing in those teams as well.
Feels wrong to usurp Ty cobb’s accomplishment, partially because it’s a story everyone’s grown up with.
Jesus next they will just say we created everything. Wait that’s the month of February. Gotta lie to make us feel better.
Well...maybe curling records won't change anytime soon.
They didnt rewrite history. Josh Gibson has always been there.