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This is some of the most legitimately interesting and enjoyable content you've made lately. Your other content, more on the entertainment spectrum and enjoyable in it's own respect. It's nice to have a variety.
Wow, I completely disagree that "straight edge got rid of the toxic aspects of the punk movement." I actually thought "straight edge" was by far the most toxic faction of punks. Maybe it was different where you lived, but all the straight edge people I knew were preachy, self-righteous, gatekeeping, elitist, obnoxious pricks. Literally every single one. Gatekeeping and elitism are common in punk, but straight edge kids found a new way to wallow in that filth by telling everyone how morally superior they were for not using substances, and always trying to outdo each other in terms of purity. A lot of them started to consider "loveless sex" to be evil as well, and started lording their chastity over others, including other straight edge people. That's one way the gatekeeping came in; there were constant battles over who was or wasn't "truly straight edge." It was sickening. The straight edge punks I knew were the seriously the puritanical moral crusaders of my youth. I was very happy when the straight edge fad ended.
One thing I really admire about Finn - He doesn't tell anyone what they need to think, but to think critically about the things in which they believe. I can always get behind that idea.
Absolutely. He also doesn't shove his politics down your throat. He may comment on his position briefly but doesn't crap on the opposing position. And he doesn't do it in a way that feels like he's just trying to be "safe", it feels like that's just who he is.
I think a great testament to this is the number of essay-length posts I have had to abandon mid-draft in his comments sections. I have to remind myself that, unlike 90% of creators on the internet, he is an individual who presents his (seeming) sincerely held, well considered, and nuanced beliefs; adequately parsing any disagreements we may have would require discussion far beyond the scope and depth provided by a TH-cam comments section.
We played a show in D.C. Wilson Center in 81. When we were about to go back to NYC, one guy asked if he could hitch a ride with us. That was John Joseph, who later sang for the CroMags. He came back and landed in a squat on Ave D. He found out that there was free food at the Krishna temple in Brooklyn and started going there, and brought along other street people from the NYHC scene. The temple turned him into a devotee, and he was tasked into bringing more people from the scene, which included Harley. Thats when they decided that Krisha should be spread among the scene through their band. Thats where all this started in hardcore, including the veganism
Damn, you played at the Wilson Center in '81, that's fucking awesome! What band did you play in? Who did you play with? I love reading, or watching videos/documentaries about the first wave of hardcore punk. I didn't get into it until '88/'89, as I was 11 or 12 years old. The first hardcore punk I got into was FAITH, MINOR THREAT, BAD BRAINS, S.O.A, NEGATIVE APPROACH, SEPTIC DEATH, etc., basically anything I could find in the record stores/mail-order, which was mostly from DISCHORD. I fell in love with it immediately. I'm 47 now, and still love it!
Actually the show got shut down by the cops. The line up was my band, The Attack, the Undead, I think SOA and the Bad Brains. It was my intro to the D.C. scene
CRASS were already vegan in the late 70's-if it began anywhere, it began there. All the Krishnas we'd be talking to in the late 80's / early 90's explicitly argued AGAINST veganism, because to them, by us eating the milk from the cows, the cows would gain spiritual advancement (this is why from time to time, krishnas would "forget" to tell you about milk ingredients in the food they were giving you if you asked ... they felt that everyone gained spiritually by tricking us into eating the burfi lol). I can't give Krishnas/Cro-Mags credit for veganism in hardcore/punk, they neither introduced it nor did they popularize it.
@@Guav Yes, that's true, but Finn is American and mostly talks about his experience in the American hardcore scene. These are two different scenes separated by an entire ocean. The Crass/Amebix/anarcho/crust thing was a uniquely British tendency back in the early 80s. NY/DC/Cali hardcore was American. They were both expressions of a working class/street culture punk rock, but one was distinctly American, and one was distinctly British.
@@HammarHeart With all due respect, I don't require a history or geography lesson-I'm 52, I was there. I was in the epicenter of veganism spreading throughout hardcore and played a not insignificant role in it. I wasn't replying to anything that Finn said, I was replying to a comment that was giving Cro-Mags credit for veganism in hardcore. Yes, Cro-Mags were vegetarian, but it was Youth Of Today and Gorilla Biscuits that were really what spread vegetarianism in hardcore, and it was Earth Crisis that popularized and spread veganism. Karl from ExC wasn't vegan because of the Cro-Mags, he was vegan because he was super into Crass and other British punk bands-he used to have huge liberty spikes lol. Again, the Krishnas were always anti-vegan. They do not get credit for veganism in hardcore or punk. That's just not how it happened.
Usually not one to comment on videos, but as a long time viewer I just wanted to express how much I'm enjoying seeing your videos pivot away from "Wikipedia summaries about bands people used to love in high school" and back towards subjects more authentic to your experiences and interests. Lots of interesting food for thought in this one, and getting to hear your first hand experiences of such an interesting moment in time made it all the more compelling. Time will tell if this is a tenable direction for the channel, and no one can fault you for doing what you have to do to support your family. Nevertheless, it's good to have *you* back, Finn.
@@ThePunkRockMBAI just want to say that I'm someone that would catch your videos periodically. I grew up and listened to music in the late 90s and early 2000s and mostly listened to Nu-metal and had very little exposure to punk/hardcore. With that said, I very much enjoy your punk/hardcore content way more than your Nu-metal content. My only exposure to punk was around 98 and it was NoFX and Guttermouth. That was it.
Early punk had something to say. Music in the mid seventies was starting to get overproduced, shallow and corporate and punk tore that down beautifully. Sometime in the eighties Punk started to become a sport with each band trying to one-up their competitors to be more sonically aggressive. Full throttle gets really tedious and in the end all you have is a wall of white noise with nothing to say but anger.
This is the reason I subscribed years ago. I knew a guy in middle school with all the hxc flyers for local shows he’d been to. Your background makes me feel like I’m learning about cool underground shit all over again
I really liked this video one thing I really wanted to say was that I grew up listening to Traditional Native American music and Classical music to do my homework. Was excited to find bands like Antischism that showed and talked about war, and the complexities of Indigenous people being displaced. This concept was never new to me, but in the last few years, I want to highlight that more Indigenous people are coming to the forefront to express themselves and share their experiences as they please and I think that's something that deserves to be respected. It's one thing to talk about an issue, it's something completely else to hear someone talk about their experiences through those troubles...even sharing a vision of unity for the future. It's nice that we have a new generation of artists from all over who are trying to share their culture and knowledge and medicine with the very people who have oppressed them. It's powerful stuff. 🙏
man i just wanted to say i've been watching you for a while now, and i genuinly think this is one of your best videos. you did such a great job with this, it was super educational and im checking out a ton of the bands you mentioned. I know recently you mentioned feeling like the material on this channel was getting stale and difficult to make, but i think this video proves that you are still an insanely talented, knowledgeable creator that definitely serves as a huge positive to the music community at large.
Holy shit! That earth crisis footage was from ct skatepark in Bristol, CT. Just saw myself in the clip sitting on top of the vert ramp in the background and it brought back a ton of memories from this era. Great video!
Don't forget the social impact of 9/11 on the kids from the 90s scene, especially in the northeast. A lot of stuff seemed trivial after that. Myself and a lot of others in the scene who would have never joined the military did, leaving a generational hole in the scene. We then came home from multiple deployments and found we no longer related to the scene.
It was a funny time in the scene for sure. I was born in 1993, first show was in 05. But it was still during the time where certain bands supported soldiers in Iraq. And i can only imagine how much you differ from the scene and how its changed now in 2024, on top of the life changing tours you went through that changed your perspective already.
I used to have a pretty nihilistic mindset. Like, everything sucks, nothing matters, we're all going to end up in the dirt anyway, so fuck shit up. As I got older, that changed to everything sucks and we're all going to end up in the dirt, so right now is the only thing that matters. Do the most good you can in the moment because it's the only moment you have. I have made that journey through hardcore.
I have to say, this is one of the most thought provoking videos on music I think I've ever seen and I think it may be my favorite video from you. As someone who is probably much younger than your main audience, it's super cool to hear and learn about these past stories, bands, events, and movements that I otherwise wouldn't have known about. Love the content!
@@MichaeMichaelMichael check out Speed, Drain, Kublai Khan TX, Knocked Loose, Sunami, Dying Wish, Outta Pocket, Kind Eyes, Erase Them, God's Hate, Big Boy, Xibalba, Jesus Piece, Magnitude, Weapon X There's a ton of modern hardcore bands that are good, some of these are close to metalcore or deathcore but still great bands Also recommend subscribing to hate5six on here for tons of live hardcore shows
@@MichaeMichaelMichaellots of rly good bands and a lot are really popular too. knocked loose, gel, scowl, drain, gangcalledspeed, turnstile are all very popular
@@MichaeMichaelMichael some amazing things are going on in the scene. Check out Judiciary, Momentum, Power Trip, Pain of Truth, Speed, Sunami, End It, Never Ending Game, Gridiron, God's Hate, Harms Way, Twitching Tongues, Xibalba, Dying Wish, and Trapped Under Ice
Ya, the channel has really gone downhill. The Nu Metal and Butt Rock coverage was by far the best. Now it's like he's trying to be like that other bald nerd talking about punk and hardcore. That Danny framptonio guy
@@slashismyhommie8182 are you being sarcastic? This is the content Finn did when he first started growing. I don’t mind the nu metal and buttrock, but it’s not why I stick around. It’s for this stuff.
Here's what's ironic: In the 90s ideological hardcore was big business. Hardcore labels were making good money off several of these bands. Those bands were doing well attended tours selling merchandise. It was all very lofty, but there wasn't a whole lot of actual activism in that scene. Sure. There were pockets here and there, but for the most part it was slogans without alot of real substance. It isn't hard to take a closer look at alot of the hardcore bands and find hypocrisy at its most ironically insane level. The higher the horse, the harder the fall as it were. Sure. There were alot of really good ideas and it helped spread those ideas around...but what then? It just sold shirts and tapes or cds and hoodies and patches and stickers. Behind those ideas there were business men and women making a buck, and they were competitive and self serving like any good capitalist. Today may seem like entertainment with no substance, but look at the actual activism that's been going on over the past 5 years. 99% of the bands with good ideas aren't making money off those ideas because there's little to no money to be made. I think it's alot more genuine today than it was back then to be sure. However. End of the day band guys are gonna be band guys and looking too hard at the ones with the lofty principles is just gonna garner disappointment most of the time.
This is my favorite video you've made. I know next to nothing about Hardcore. Always been just adjacent to it. So getting a crash course on this section of it was great. Hearing your passion for the lyrics and what they meant was great. I would love to see you dive more into hardcore. I think its becoming more relevant than ever before and is about to be on everyones radar soon.
Mate this was really fucking good, great to hear about stuff I didn't have a clue about. Love that you've started mixing in more of the content you actually like and want to talk about. This is going to bring up some great conversations with my mates. Keep up the good work dude
I appreciate this conversation. A number of my old friends and bands are repped in the video and I love seeing it and hearing discussions about it after all these years.
Imho this was the best video you’ve ever done. It reminded me of so many things…I’m Italian but there was a super strong hardcore scene in my hometown…we’ve seen all the bands, sick of it all, Madball, Snapcase, Integrity, H20 and CIV…you name it. Including Shelter, 108, Downset and Earth Crisis (I still have all the tshirts!)…I had my “straight edge” period (I grew out of it in a few years) that certainly saved me from drugs that unfortunately dragged many of my friends in trouble. The hardcore scene gave us purpose and gave us friends…thanks for this video! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I really love just learning about different subgenres or scenes that I'm not familiar with. Even if I might not find myself becoming a fan, due to differing tastes, it's so interesting learning about how something came to be and why it's loved. Very interesting. This is why I subbed to this channel. I just truly enjoy hearing someone, who's obviously knowledgeable on the subjects, tell the story. That's all I need from a creator. Nothing more nothing less
It's this sort of content that brought me to Punk Rock MBA a long time ago and hopefully the content that Finn will find a way to keep making in the future! It made me think and it introduced me to bands I wasn't aware of.
This is great stuff to think about, and you've definitely got me going to listen to shelter and 108 and other bands you mentioned. It's challenging my view of what punk really is. Though the lyrics you described first are definitely nihilistic, and that fits right in with my definition of punk.
Finn, I agree with just about everything you said in this video, I came up in bands and participating in the scene all throughout that time. I do agree that it was a magic moment that will never be replicated. I do also feel that it was such a special time one in which we were all asking the deeper questions passing out lyric sheets at shows, trying to bring awareness to things that were going on in the world around us. I also think you make a great point about it being about riffs now, and there doesn’t seem to be as much substance to the music as before. Now I just sound like an old guy. This era of the 90s was hands-down the best and I’m so grateful to be a part of it. I also love that you always mention Downset I was very close with those guys and even did back up vocals on their first two albums. Seeing that seed grow from nothing into what it became was so amazing and a time that I look back on quite fondly.
@@bennymountain1 no, it's more like that meme where it's the images of the stages of clown makeup where it starts off only punk music from before '86 is good and progresses to conservative is the new punk at the bottom of it.
I feel like you’re starting to make videos you want … and I’m here for it!! That’s want got me into this channel The deep dives into music genres But honestly I’m here for the Finn and all the endeavors Much love from you favorite city CINCINNATI 😅😅
GWAR is a band that on the surface seems over the top and low brow id music, but they actually tackle how fucked up humanity is through their goofy insane songs and concept albums.
I feel like the pool transforming into a 7Eleven is a great line because spaces dedicated to community life being transformed into spaces for profit/materialism plays strongly into the rise of individualism. Loved the video!
I thought the same thing plus it can be viewed on a personal level of having great memories there and now it's a stark reminder that you won't be able to make more memories there in that poolhall.
Would love to hear from these bands / members and what their views are today. After they grew up and had to maybe conform to society. I too am a musician and grew up in the 80s Metal / NYHC scene (Gothic Slam).....Great times..... Awesome video btw!
This reminds me of when I first watched your "Powerviolence" video, Finn! I don't know much about this stuff, but I feel like i do now! I can tell this stuff is important to you, and I appreciate your work in sharing these life experiences you had as a kid! Best music content channel on TH-cam!
Amazing by video Finn! I came up in that same 90’s scene. I credit a lot of my current views on the world to that time and what I was exposed to which ultimately lead to some unbelievable conversations about topics far beyond my teenage brain’s ability to consider. Amazing days back then. You’re right on the money too, the likelihood we might see this again (at least in our lifetime) is minimal. 🤘🏼
@@hellasalvy @saranoelle3927 I had a similar path. I loved the message of the Hare Krishna spirituality especially through 108, but I never took it too seriously as I was more educated by anarcho punk and religion was not good news. Years later I discovered the book "A Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life" by Santiveda and it blew my mind. Never looked back.
Awesome video Finn! I love this content. I was there in the 90’s hardcore scene. This video was like a trip down memory lane. “Don’t let your outrage for injustice end where your selfishness begins” - Earth Crisis One of my personal favorite quotes
I loved this video Finn!! Stuff like this and the meaningful and deeper conversations that you have sometimes in your live streams is why I keep coming back. 💓
I think it's unfortunate that TH-cam has forced creators to feel the weight of needing to get views as this may be my favorite video you have done. You spoke from the heart and experience in a way that was enlightening and reminded me why I love the hardcore scene and culture. This evoked the idea from Bane's song "Can We Start Again?" Regardless of how you feel in the end about this video from what it does or yield for view counts, thank you so much for making it and for what you shared. This was fantastic.
Straight up: GREAT video. This is something I wasn't aware of despite being a lifetime Hardcore fan / listener / participant. I have always looked for an outlet about sub-topics of the music I love, and this is amazing to find. Keep it up man!
As someone a few years younger than you Fin, I love when you do these types of videos littered with your experiences about the topic during the time it was happening.
You say that this video will get low viewing figures, but the topics that are connected to this period of hardcore tends to be forgotten. Glad you brought it up, Finn.
This video is awesome I love the more personal touch. You have so many good ideas and I’m glad you’re breaking out of the style of videos that you weren’t passionate about!
Here in Argentina there was a link between the hardcore scene and the hare krishna devotees too. And not only the hardcore scene, during the 90s this religion served as a way out of drug addiction and other dense stuff for many young people. Even when I was a little self destructive at the moment, I wasn´t really into religion, but I confess that I was a fan of the food they served in the indian and vegetarian fast food store they had attached to their temple. Now they moved to a more gentrified neighborhood and sometimes I go to feel a connection with the old days.
To my eternal shame, I was an edgy atheist when that scene got underway. I was a selfish, arrogant "anarcho-punk." I did not start to drift away from that cult until I traveled to the Far East in the early part of this century. It was too late and I received cosmic chastisement in 2019 when I woke up in ICU with a permanent disability. Had I only listened with an open mind. I have since been studying on my own and have learned nt to desire things that I do not need.
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If you think that a higher power (cosmic) disables people to get them to go in a particular direction with their lives or with spirituality, then you have a very long way to go indeed...
I think all of our music consumption being primarily online has consolidated 'mainstream' and 'underground' to the same place, which kinda prevents new ideas, new movements in music from having the space to develop like it did in the past. It's a double-edged sword. On one hand it's great that more people have access to music than ever before, but on the other hand, it seems that music not being able to grow 'off-line' has been detrimental to some degree.
Have to check out Shelter! What a great video, I loved the whole angle on ideas 🤘🏻 I’m of the “had to get clean after trauma and punk rock” variety myself, shout out to your Mom for getting through and raising one cool dude
Love that Finn is branching out and talking about this kind of stuff, this is the good shiiiii- Never heard of Shelter because I was never part of that scene, so I'm learning a lot here :)
Easily the best you have ever done. Excellent work. My first punk show was in 1979. The best thing about punk has always been about challenging authority and my/your way of thinking. You did that for me with this and it has been a long time. Thank you.
Bro this is exactly the content I've missed. Music is art. Art should cause you to think. I love the way these kinds of videos where people get to see how things used to be and see how art reflects those times. Not just a on a surface level and what was popular but also in counter culture. Question everything and open yourself to the answers. You never know what may find you. 10/10 brotha. This was great
thanks for this video! What got me into punk in the late 90s as I was a teenager was the freedom many bands had to ask complex questions. Don't get me wrong I do get the "lets have fun" part of punk and hardcore but there's that other part that makes you think about stuff youve never wondered before and that has progressively become more and more absent in the American punk/hardcore scene. That being said, it is a little sad that you mostly talk about American bands, there's a whole world of punk in Spanish from Mexico to Chile, and From Argentina to Spain, Italy and France. I'm glad I wasnt born in the US so I still get to appreciate what's being done in other parts of the world other than the US which isn't the norm for punk everywhere else. Keep up the good work!
I grew up in the mid/late 90s NYHC scene. Biggest thing I miss is rolling up to the venue and seeing the crew. You knew you where gonna have a great night , even if the band wasn't so great... Lol
i too grew up in the nyhc scene. i was young and really got into it at around 94 myself. i grew up in queens and was surrounded by a great scene. even if i wanted no part in the scene, i couldnt escape it. it was all around me. literally every weekend, there were great show after great show all at different venues and you couldnt decide which one to go to and were afraid to miss out on the show you didnt go to. i really do miss it.
I was right in the middle of all of this and you summed it up... it got weird. and I had a fukkin blast with it. people underestimate the lyrical content and forward thinking\action hardcore bands had. yeah some of it was all unity and brotherhood (nothing wrong with that), but some like the bands mentioned here were exposing kids to all kinds of new ideas and social issues they never heard about at home, school, news. The work put into the DIY fanzines were incredible. as teen I was shocked that people my age built such a massive scene all by themselves. I've been in many scenes in my day, but this era holds a very special place in my heart. I'm glad I was there for it and glad I lived somewhere that had tons of shows.
The jedi religion took a lot of inspiration from eastern philosophy. Mostly Buddhism if I'm remembering correctly, but there's alot of similarities between Buddhism and Hari Krishna
I've been watching Finn's videos for probably 5 years now and this video was super interesting, there could be more videos about hardcore, punk rock history, especially from Finn's youth. Thanks! Keep it coming!
Krishnacore and vegan straight edge were pivotal in helping me get sober. Having an ideology, soundtrack, and community was crucial when dealing with something that feels isolating.
I had no idea about Krishnacore before this. I love the energy, sound, and passion of hardcore, and have been more drawn to Hindu ideas the last couple years so the fact this has culminated is mind-blowing to me and I'm excited to get down on this path.
@@magicmike1234I used to be a Hare Krishna. There’s a lot of good that really transformed my life. But also some cultish dogma that needs to be understood and preferably rejected. One main problem is the idea that their messiah was an incarnation of God who rejected the Vedic path. Problematic seeing as though their whole cult is meant to be based upon the Vedic religion.
I love everything about this video. I'm pretty much your exact age, Now I grew up listening to metal because I had two older brothers who were into that so that's what my very young impressionable ears heard most. I still love metal, but in middle school in '92 I heard my first Dead Kennedys song and I've been punk rock ever since. Why this video resonates with me is growing up in West Jordan Utah as a punk rocker who didn't do drugs and didn't like to hang out with them, the hardcore and straightedge kids were really the only kids I could connect with. I didn't love hardcore music and I never went straightedge, even though I never did drugs, but it was always around me so I always appreciated the message. Keep up doing your thing Finn, the people who care, will always care❤
I'm just a few years younger than you are, and it's such a delight to hear these sorts of videos based on your own experiences. I wasn't super into the hardcore scene at that time, but I had some friends who were. The number of interesting conversations generated from these types of lyrics inside of my friend group were amazing, and I am deeply grateful for them bringing some of these ideas to kids growing up in the middle of nowhere Ohio. I'm not sure that I would have been exposed to them in any other way at the time, and they made me a much more critical thinker.
@@michaeldolch9126 probably a direct descendent of the commie punks in SF. MRR had a long history of trying to cancel bands for lyrics and then youd see the band have to write in and explain what satire is bc the guy who wrote the lyrics was actually gay or whatever
We've had vegan punk in the UK since very early days, subhumans, culture shock, crass, napalm death etc. Mostly started from the squat party and free festivals scene from early 80's
The bassist of early eighties Ohio hardcore band 0DFx, Brad Warner, became a pretty well known Zen master. In his book Hardcore Zen he writes a.o. about the overlap between the straight edge movement and buddhism.
Commenting for the algo so that Finn makes more content like this. Love it when your passion and thought-provoking personality come through. And I get a hardcore history lesson? Sick.
This is probably my favorite video of yours. I didn't realize how luck I was to come up during that time period until I got much older. My interest in environmentalism, vegetarianism, spirituality, leftist politics, all that came from the 90s HXC scene. Fantastic video
Great video! I learned so much from 90s hardcore as well. We were lucky to be exposed to so many new ideas that didn’t exist in the main stream. One particular band I’m reminded of after watching this is Outspoken. One of my favorites!
On a positive discussion vibe, I would disagree with the final statement though.. It's great to think about all the metaphysical stuff but if the end conclusion is "there's nothing we can do about it" no real point in questioning... I still think the strength in punk lies in giving power to act, to send messages, and build communities.. sure, we have to play the game to some extent, we need saliries, quality of life, personal goal, but there is a possible collective achievement that we should strive or die trying
Yes but also sometimes you need to evaluate whether those aims are realistic, according to your own particular life circumstances and personal goals, and whether the real possibility of enacting that change in your area is worth giving up your personal goals (such as starting a family and supporting that family while trying to avoid raising them in poverty because we know how growing up in poverty makes us all more susceptible to experiencing trauma and negative life outcomes). I fought for two decades to further the cause of socialism. Had some successful reforms passed, but nothing that actually built real socialism. The movement also has been coopted by radical liberals and so there’s no point, as someone in my position and with my particular talents/skills (and the ones I lack that would be necessary to achieve the movement’s aims), to throw away my life and my children’s lives on a movement that is essentially a vampire.
For what it's worth, this is my favorite video of the last 5 years I've been watching this channel. It's super insightful and it's clear that you chose your words very carefully throughout. I've always appreciated your "personal experience" content as well as your "history of" videos and this was the perfect blend of the two. I hope to see much more content of the sort going forward.
I'll be honest but through all these years, even though I have disagreed with Finn on multiple occasions, I still enjoy his content. In an alternative universe, he, me and Dan Frampton are having a beer and goofing around about various topics.
Welcome back Finn. Nice to see you doing stuff you care about again. Shelter was so different at the time but in our local scene they were respected in the same way as Fucazi was by following their own ethical path.
May I add to all this, with the band CRASS!? Their albums talk about how religion is an opiate for the masses, etc... but my favorite album will always be P*nis Envy.. where they talk about the wonderful world us women live in.. and they did this in the early 80s in Britian, during Thatcher's government.. they tried to encourage people to think of why thing were the way they were and maybe let's change it!! They were into the whole DIY, ideal, making their own record company to be able to get their own records out... They've been a favorite band of mine, ever since I heard and bought a double record set of 'the feeding of 5000' and Jesus christ - the album.. Also, I want to add that CRASS was singing about veganism back in the early 80s..
Not just Crass. The entire anarcho-punk scene and hardcore punk scene influenced and meshed with anarcho-punk, aka crust scene. It's a mesh of early abrasive, politically aware, darker punk with fast hardcore punk and little bit of metal, but mostly punk. And all of that happened even before crossover scene during mid 80s. So, thinking man's punk isn't just something reserved to one scene or time. To omit this fact shows Finn's biased against this major part of punk culture.
@@iachtulhu1420yes he totally is. Not only is he biased to his regional form of punk but he seems to think that basically “the kids these days will never be as deep or authentic as we were”. I hate that mentality. Pessimistic and dumb. If anyone wants to listen to some politically motivated punk check out the British stuff like Rudimentary Peni, Crass, Subhumans, Amebix and many more. These bands asked the same questions but also made unique and expressive art that’s a lot more interesting to listen to.
Amazing video @Finn! Thank you for sharing this super important history. As a former Straight Edge Vegan that spent a year in jail for taking direct action, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain what motivated us in the 90s. Now as a pastor and dad of three teenagers, it’s hard to explain to my kids and young people what it was like in the scene growing up. Please continue to make this amazing content. We really appreciate you and all of the hard work!
This was so interesting to watch. Having gotten into punk and hardcore a little later in life, I love seeing these videos about the history and more niche subgenres and especially of your own experiences in the scene. Great vid!
So Punk ‘having an ideology’ goes against what punk is supposed to be about? So Punk is about something? Man I wonder if there’s a term for ‘being about something’…. What a ridiculous thing to say.
Just because Punk is a fluid, anti-status quo idea about not fitting into the norm doesn’t mean that it’s devoid of anything linguistically and ideologically. You gonna say Punk isn’t a genre of music because THAT goes against what punk is? You’re a fool.
I'm about 10 years older than Finn. The big issue in hardcore before this was racists vs everyone else. Groups like Confederate Hammerskins and American Front trying to take over in the mid 80s. Bands like SOD, Agnostic Front, and Cro Mags horrified to see Nazis loved them until the bands had to explicitly tell them off. By the late 80s the Nazi skins had been driven out by the first Antifa, SHARP, ARA, JBAKC, and gangs like the Suicidals, Baldies, FSU Crew. These same issues were around earlier with bands like DOA, Crass, 7 Seconds. I remember the Vancouver Five being celebrated, an early set of bombers who attacked logging companies and porn stores. But it really took the defeat of Nazi skins for there to be any kind of space for political organizing or even anybody allowed in who wasn't white and right wing. At its worse both Jello Biafa and Jimmy Ramone were attacked, nonracists of all kind intimidated, and even entire scenes like San Diego terrorized. Finn would have come into hardcore having missed all of that, so he can't be blamed for not discussing or knowing about it.
Finn doesn't discuss or know about the various ideology or issues of the previous Hardcore/Punk scene(s) because he doesn't care about it, not because he wasn't there. I'm about the same age as he is and, give or take a couple of years, got into listening to Punk around then but know the stuff he is talking about is very limited. Yet he presents himself as an authoritative on Hardcore Punk when he really is just a guy wanting to make money doing TH-cam videos. In regards to the stuff he is claiming in this video, even back then I knew it wasn't entirely correct. The Krishna stuff wasn't introduced by Ray Cappo from Shelter in the 90's. Even before Cro-Mags recorded their debut LP in the mid 80's, vocalist John Joseph was into that Krishna stuff in the early 80's. It may have been influenced by HR from Bad Brains and his Rastafarian beliefs with that PMA, I guess. The same thing with the veganism/vegetarian Bloodclot and others in NY were into through Krishna, Dave MDC was writing songs about it in SF after moving from TX. Before that Crass was talking about that stuff in the late 70's in the UK starting a whole movement with real Anarchism. Shelter weren't really making that big a wave as he claims, outside of some fans and that issue of MRR where they interviewed Cappo. Youth of Today were the bigger band Cappo fronted previously and they had been talking about some of those conscience issues already because they were straight edge. Prior to those mid to late 80's sXe bands, Minor Threat and 7 Seconds and Youth Brigade through their whole BYO and Positive Force thing were discussing it like you said. In addition of mentioning Vancouver 5 of Subhumans like you said, the early Canadian Punk scene were heavily into environmentalism doing benefit shows. Finn saying that nobody was focused on it until those mid 90's hardcore bands is just plain wrong. Biafra and MDC and the other Subhumans in the UK, etc. were talking about it. I could go on and on but his take is just myopic. I say that because he repeatedly claims the earlier Punk/Hardcore scenes and bands were just negative and simple-minded when that couldn't be further from the truth. I once read a comment where someone asked him to do a video on some early UK Punk band (I forget which one, probably UK Subs) and he simply said it was before his time and he is really not interested in those bands (He is definitely is interested in Nu-Metal and all that corporate rock, though). The guy thinks Dead Kennedys were a negative band because they criticized cops.
@@biggoathorns we meaning all of humanity except the ignorant know they and you are wrong. We know it science knows it and every ethical and moral belief and believer knows it.
This is one of my favorite video’s you’ve done and I had the same experience with Shelter as a senior in high school. Thank you for reminding me of how much that band meant to me ❤
Thanks for making this video, Finn! I was really interested in hearing more from you on the 90s hardcore scene so I'm really glad that you made this video. I really liked the vibe of it. Definitely thought-provoking.
It isn't that people are scared to change anything. The machine won't let the changes happen. The changes needed to fix a lot of the terrible consequences we are dealing with socially, economically, spiritually, and environmentally are being forcibly stifled. The "right" and "left" everyone argues about are two arms of the exact same machine. Anyone who says, does, or invents anything that can actually help humanity as a whole is deplatformed, bought out and absorbed, or murdered. Greed is the soul of the machine and it will be the death of us all. I used to be a hardcore alcoholic materialist that measured my worth by the amount of shit I owned, and how hard I could party. Until I started falling apart physically and my life crumbled around me. Then a lot of the messages from these type of bands actually made sense. Now I make a livable wage doing something that keeps me outdoors doing physically demanding work. So that at the end of the day I feel a sense of accomplishment and then have a good meal I cook myself. I've been sober for about four years now. I try to support the people in my life I love anyway I can. Keep myself healthy and strong. Take care of my kids. And most importantly is I reject as much shit from the machine as I possibly can. If I didn't have kids I'd probably be in a cave in the woods somewhere.
This is it Fin! Yes your entertaining videos are awesome, but these more informative ones that teach me something new about music and scenes I know little to nothing about are so authentic and refreshing! Hope life is treating you well!
Bro, this was such a fucking excellent video! I had forgotten about Day of Suffering, and I'm glad I'm not the only one that loves Shelter. Glad to see a video about music and bands you actually like.
A video about The Smiths could be interesting, their first album from the early-mid 80s was called Meat is Murder, they have some interesting perspectives in their lyrics about love/attachment, and Morrissey has had a whole weird problematic trajectory with his social/political comments
I'm torn, because that album played such an important role in my teen years, but Morrissey is such a piece of shit. It's crazy to have such a humble guy (Johnny Marr) next to a complete egotist.
Finn, I adore your videos. I look forward to them. They may not always be a new topic, but they're always intelligently done, and very well put together. This video is gold though. I have found new music that I thoroughly enjoy from watching your videos. I have gone down rabbit holes because of them. I've learned even more on my own because of you. Thank you for that ...for all of your content. Also, I love when your opinion is different from mine because that just gives me another way to look at something.
If you want to check out more of Roderick's music follow: linktr.ee/roderickvandenbrink and if you want to support ChildFund follow: www.childfund.org/
I like his style!
No Rise Against or Bad Religion?
Fire from the Gods or Slipknot?
@ch-yq5yn
You're saying Trump is smart?
@ch-yq5yn Oh my ...🤦
Great job dude i didn't know a lot of this stuff.
This is some of the most legitimately interesting and enjoyable content you've made lately. Your other content, more on the entertainment spectrum and enjoyable in it's own respect. It's nice to have a variety.
Wow, I completely disagree that "straight edge got rid of the toxic aspects of the punk movement." I actually thought "straight edge" was by far the most toxic faction of punks. Maybe it was different where you lived, but all the straight edge people I knew were preachy, self-righteous, gatekeeping, elitist, obnoxious pricks. Literally every single one. Gatekeeping and elitism are common in punk, but straight edge kids found a new way to wallow in that filth by telling everyone how morally superior they were for not using substances, and always trying to outdo each other in terms of purity. A lot of them started to consider "loveless sex" to be evil as well, and started lording their chastity over others, including other straight edge people. That's one way the gatekeeping came in; there were constant battles over who was or wasn't "truly straight edge." It was sickening. The straight edge punks I knew were the seriously the puritanical moral crusaders of my youth. I was very happy when the straight edge fad ended.
I just thought straight edge was funny until I got jumped for smoking a cigarette on a public sidewalk outside a sold out show
I had the same experience with them got to the point I preferred to hang with the christian hardcore crews cause they were less preachy
What about raybeez,warzone,.. what you think?
If it wasn't for their album free at last. I honestly don't know what I'd be today... definitely not as strong minded
One thing I really admire about Finn - He doesn't tell anyone what they need to think, but to think critically about the things in which they believe. I can always get behind that idea.
Well said! I couldn't agree more.
Absolutely. He also doesn't shove his politics down your throat. He may comment on his position briefly but doesn't crap on the opposing position. And he doesn't do it in a way that feels like he's just trying to be "safe", it feels like that's just who he is.
@@specialsause949 100% spot on.
I think a great testament to this is the number of essay-length posts I have had to abandon mid-draft in his comments sections. I have to remind myself that, unlike 90% of creators on the internet, he is an individual who presents his (seeming) sincerely held, well considered, and nuanced beliefs; adequately parsing any disagreements we may have would require discussion far beyond the scope and depth provided by a TH-cam comments section.
Unless it deals with communism...
We played a show in D.C. Wilson Center in 81. When we were about to go back to NYC, one guy asked if he could hitch a ride with us. That was John Joseph, who later sang for the CroMags. He came back and landed in a squat on Ave D. He found out that there was free food at the Krishna temple in Brooklyn and started going there, and brought along other street people from the NYHC scene. The temple turned him into a devotee, and he was tasked into bringing more people from the scene, which included Harley. Thats when they decided that Krisha should be spread among the scene through their band. Thats where all this started in hardcore, including the veganism
Damn, you played at the Wilson Center in '81, that's fucking awesome! What band did you play in? Who did you play with? I love reading, or watching videos/documentaries about the first wave of hardcore punk. I didn't get into it until '88/'89, as I was 11 or 12 years old. The first hardcore punk I got into was FAITH, MINOR THREAT, BAD BRAINS, S.O.A, NEGATIVE APPROACH, SEPTIC DEATH, etc., basically anything I could find in the record stores/mail-order, which was mostly from DISCHORD. I fell in love with it immediately. I'm 47 now, and still love it!
Actually the show got shut down by the cops. The line up was my band, The Attack, the Undead, I think SOA and the Bad Brains. It was my intro to the D.C. scene
CRASS were already vegan in the late 70's-if it began anywhere, it began there. All the Krishnas we'd be talking to in the late 80's / early 90's explicitly argued AGAINST veganism, because to them, by us eating the milk from the cows, the cows would gain spiritual advancement (this is why from time to time, krishnas would "forget" to tell you about milk ingredients in the food they were giving you if you asked ... they felt that everyone gained spiritually by tricking us into eating the burfi lol). I can't give Krishnas/Cro-Mags credit for veganism in hardcore/punk, they neither introduced it nor did they popularize it.
@@Guav Yes, that's true, but Finn is American and mostly talks about his experience in the American hardcore scene. These are two different scenes separated by an entire ocean. The Crass/Amebix/anarcho/crust thing was a uniquely British tendency back in the early 80s. NY/DC/Cali hardcore was American. They were both expressions of a working class/street culture punk rock, but one was distinctly American, and one was distinctly British.
@@HammarHeart With all due respect, I don't require a history or geography lesson-I'm 52, I was there. I was in the epicenter of veganism spreading throughout hardcore and played a not insignificant role in it. I wasn't replying to anything that Finn said, I was replying to a comment that was giving Cro-Mags credit for veganism in hardcore. Yes, Cro-Mags were vegetarian, but it was Youth Of Today and Gorilla Biscuits that were really what spread vegetarianism in hardcore, and it was Earth Crisis that popularized and spread veganism. Karl from ExC wasn't vegan because of the Cro-Mags, he was vegan because he was super into Crass and other British punk bands-he used to have huge liberty spikes lol. Again, the Krishnas were always anti-vegan. They do not get credit for veganism in hardcore or punk. That's just not how it happened.
Usually not one to comment on videos, but as a long time viewer I just wanted to express how much I'm enjoying seeing your videos pivot away from "Wikipedia summaries about bands people used to love in high school" and back towards subjects more authentic to your experiences and interests. Lots of interesting food for thought in this one, and getting to hear your first hand experiences of such an interesting moment in time made it all the more compelling. Time will tell if this is a tenable direction for the channel, and no one can fault you for doing what you have to do to support your family. Nevertheless, it's good to have *you* back, Finn.
It's not a tenable direction but I'll sneak in a few like this sometimes
@@ThePunkRockMBAI just want to say that I'm someone that would catch your videos periodically. I grew up and listened to music in the late 90s and early 2000s and mostly listened to Nu-metal and had very little exposure to punk/hardcore. With that said, I very much enjoy your punk/hardcore content way more than your Nu-metal content.
My only exposure to punk was around 98 and it was NoFX and Guttermouth. That was it.
@@ThePunkRockMBA I wonder what you think about Pentti Linkola's ideas
@@ThePunkRockMBA Please do!
@@ThePunkRockMBA Understandable… thanks all the same 💯
Early punk had something to say. Music in the mid seventies was starting to get overproduced, shallow and corporate and punk tore that down beautifully. Sometime in the eighties Punk started to become a sport with each band trying to one-up their competitors to be more sonically aggressive. Full throttle gets really tedious and in the end all you have is a wall of white noise with nothing to say but anger.
I hope you enjoyed putting this together, because I enjoyed watching it.
Wow. What a solid video. I really enjoy these deep dives in to niche punk and metal sub genres I was too young to experience myself
Not to rag on your other stuff, but this is the type of content that made me love your channel to begin with.
Same. The normie stuff sucks.
This is the reason I subscribed years ago. I knew a guy in middle school with all the hxc flyers for local shows he’d been to. Your background makes me feel like I’m learning about cool underground shit all over again
You are wrong! People will like this video. Thank you for making this!!!
Ba da ba ba baaa. I'm lovin' it.
I personally thumbs downed the video after reading this comment. Good job. Don't tell me how to TH-cam
@@loganpeters7543 If you translate this to english it says "Not at all. I'm lovin' it".
McDonald's is sending mixed messaging
I really liked this video one thing I really wanted to say was that I grew up listening to Traditional Native American music and Classical music to do my homework. Was excited to find bands like Antischism that showed and talked about war, and the complexities of Indigenous people being displaced. This concept was never new to me, but in the last few years, I want to highlight that more Indigenous people are coming to the forefront to express themselves and share their experiences as they please and I think that's something that deserves to be respected. It's one thing to talk about an issue, it's something completely else to hear someone talk about their experiences through those troubles...even sharing a vision of unity for the future. It's nice that we have a new generation of artists from all over who are trying to share their culture and knowledge and medicine with the very people who have oppressed them. It's powerful stuff. 🙏
The subject combined with having a sponsor being a musician just feels so right.
agreed! Hopefully we're back, baby!
Sure I guess?
a musician who’s donating to helping children at that.. love it.
man i just wanted to say i've been watching you for a while now, and i genuinly think this is one of your best videos. you did such a great job with this, it was super educational and im checking out a ton of the bands you mentioned. I know recently you mentioned feeling like the material on this channel was getting stale and difficult to make, but i think this video proves that you are still an insanely talented, knowledgeable creator that definitely serves as a huge positive to the music community at large.
Holy shit! That earth crisis footage was from ct skatepark in Bristol, CT. Just saw myself in the clip sitting on top of the vert ramp in the background and it brought back a ton of memories from this era. Great video!
I'm sitting on the mini ramp 😂😂😂💯💯✌️
I said the same thing when I saw that clip! So many great shows at the CT Bike & Skate shop in Bristol.
Don't forget the social impact of 9/11 on the kids from the 90s scene, especially in the northeast. A lot of stuff seemed trivial after that. Myself and a lot of others in the scene who would have never joined the military did, leaving a generational hole in the scene. We then came home from multiple deployments and found we no longer related to the scene.
It was a funny time in the scene for sure. I was born in 1993, first show was in 05. But it was still during the time where certain bands supported soldiers in Iraq.
And i can only imagine how much you differ from the scene and how its changed now in 2024, on top of the life changing tours you went through that changed your perspective already.
I used to have a pretty nihilistic mindset. Like, everything sucks, nothing matters, we're all going to end up in the dirt anyway, so fuck shit up. As I got older, that changed to everything sucks and we're all going to end up in the dirt, so right now is the only thing that matters. Do the most good you can in the moment because it's the only moment you have. I have made that journey through hardcore.
Ya, and conservatism is the new punk rock bro.
@ch-yq5ynit's a lot more fun than you think.
@SatanSquad Yeah, if you have the mentality of a teenager going through teen angst.
And then you become a parent, and suddenly the future matters WAY more than the present.
@@slashismyhommie8182 ur trolling right??
Im glad i was a teenager in de 80s and grew up with 80s hardcore.
Really loving all of your recent hardcore coverage please do more in the future
I have to say, this is one of the most thought provoking videos on music I think I've ever seen and I think it may be my favorite video from you. As someone who is probably much younger than your main audience, it's super cool to hear and learn about these past stories, bands, events, and movements that I otherwise wouldn't have known about. Love the content!
Please keep making more stuff on hardcore, and talk about the new wave of hardcore and OSDM bands!
What’s going on in hardcore today? Genuinely asking as someone who’s out of the loop these days. Recommendations? ❤
@@MichaeMichaelMichael check out Speed, Drain, Kublai Khan TX, Knocked Loose, Sunami, Dying Wish, Outta Pocket, Kind Eyes, Erase Them, God's Hate, Big Boy, Xibalba, Jesus Piece, Magnitude, Weapon X
There's a ton of modern hardcore bands that are good, some of these are close to metalcore or deathcore but still great bands
Also recommend subscribing to hate5six on here for tons of live hardcore shows
Mew Wave.......like hardcore cat band? Jkjk
@@MichaeMichaelMichaellots of rly good bands and a lot are really popular too. knocked loose, gel, scowl, drain, gangcalledspeed, turnstile are all very popular
@@MichaeMichaelMichael some amazing things are going on in the scene. Check out Judiciary, Momentum, Power Trip, Pain of Truth, Speed, Sunami, End It, Never Ending Game, Gridiron, God's Hate, Harms Way, Twitching Tongues, Xibalba, Dying Wish, and Trapped Under Ice
Being a seeker is what got me into hardcore punk, and music at large. This one hit home over here!
4 VIDEOS IN A ROW THAT AREN'T ABOUT NU METAL??? IS THIS EVEN REAL???
I love this! This is the content that drew me to Finn.
@@HappinessDIY same
Ya, the channel has really gone downhill. The Nu Metal and Butt Rock coverage was by far the best. Now it's like he's trying to be like that other bald nerd talking about punk and hardcore. That Danny framptonio guy
@@slashismyhommie8182 are you being sarcastic? This is the content Finn did when he first started growing. I don’t mind the nu metal and buttrock, but it’s not why I stick around. It’s for this stuff.
Obligatory upvote and comment reply to drive engagement. Down with butt rock and nu metal videos, up with literally anything else
Here's what's ironic:
In the 90s ideological hardcore was big business. Hardcore labels were making good money off several of these bands. Those bands were doing well attended tours selling merchandise. It was all very lofty, but there wasn't a whole lot of actual activism in that scene.
Sure. There were pockets here and there, but for the most part it was slogans without alot of real substance. It isn't hard to take a closer look at alot of the hardcore bands and find hypocrisy at its most ironically insane level. The higher the horse, the harder the fall as it were.
Sure. There were alot of really good ideas and it helped spread those ideas around...but what then? It just sold shirts and tapes or cds and hoodies and patches and stickers. Behind those ideas there were business men and women making a buck, and they were competitive and self serving like any good capitalist.
Today may seem like entertainment with no substance, but look at the actual activism that's been going on over the past 5 years. 99% of the bands with good ideas aren't making money off those ideas because there's little to no money to be made. I think it's alot more genuine today than it was back then to be sure.
However. End of the day band guys are gonna be band guys and looking too hard at the ones with the lofty principles is just gonna garner disappointment most of the time.
This is my favorite video you've made. I know next to nothing about Hardcore. Always been just adjacent to it. So getting a crash course on this section of it was great. Hearing your passion for the lyrics and what they meant was great. I would love to see you dive more into hardcore. I think its becoming more relevant than ever before and is about to be on everyones radar soon.
This is so cool I'm going to dig into all the bands. Thanks Finn!
Mate this was really fucking good, great to hear about stuff I didn't have a clue about. Love that you've started mixing in more of the content you actually like and want to talk about.
This is going to bring up some great conversations with my mates.
Keep up the good work dude
I appreciate this conversation. A number of my old friends and bands are repped in the video and I love seeing it and hearing discussions about it after all these years.
Imho this was the best video you’ve ever done. It reminded me of so many things…I’m Italian but there was a super strong hardcore scene in my hometown…we’ve seen all the bands, sick of it all, Madball, Snapcase, Integrity, H20 and CIV…you name it. Including Shelter, 108, Downset and Earth Crisis (I still have all the tshirts!)…I had my “straight edge” period (I grew out of it in a few years) that certainly saved me from drugs that unfortunately dragged many of my friends in trouble. The hardcore scene gave us purpose and gave us friends…thanks for this video! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Translation: I looked up the bands you named here on Apple Music and just followed the trail of similar artists.
I really love just learning about different subgenres or scenes that I'm not familiar with. Even if I might not find myself becoming a fan, due to differing tastes, it's so interesting learning about how something came to be and why it's loved. Very interesting. This is why I subbed to this channel. I just truly enjoy hearing someone, who's obviously knowledgeable on the subjects, tell the story. That's all I need from a creator. Nothing more nothing less
It's this sort of content that brought me to Punk Rock MBA a long time ago and hopefully the content that Finn will find a way to keep making in the future! It made me think and it introduced me to bands I wasn't aware of.
This is great stuff to think about, and you've definitely got me going to listen to shelter and 108 and other bands you mentioned. It's challenging my view of what punk really is. Though the lyrics you described first are definitely nihilistic, and that fits right in with my definition of punk.
Finn, I agree with just about everything you said in this video, I came up in bands and participating in the scene all throughout that time. I do agree that it was a magic moment that will never be replicated. I do also feel that it was such a special time one in which we were all asking the deeper questions passing out lyric sheets at shows, trying to bring awareness to things that were going on in the world around us. I also think you make a great point about it being about riffs now, and there doesn’t seem to be as much substance to the music as before. Now I just sound like an old guy. This era of the 90s was hands-down the best and I’m so grateful to be a part of it. I also love that you always mention Downset I was very close with those guys and even did back up vocals on their first two albums. Seeing that seed grow from nothing into what it became was so amazing and a time that I look back on quite fondly.
And conservatism and supporting cops is the new punk rock!!!
@@slashismyhommie8182 No, it's not.
@@bennymountain1 yes, it is
@@slashismyhommie8182 It is in a Steve Buscemi with a skateboard saying "Hello, fellow kids" kind of sense.
@@bennymountain1 no, it's more like that meme where it's the images of the stages of clown makeup where it starts off only punk music from before '86 is good and progresses to conservative is the new punk at the bottom of it.
I’m only halfway through this video, but I’m digging it. Reminds me of your older videos, the reason I subbed in the first place. Love to see it.
I feel like you’re starting to make videos you want … and I’m here for it!!
That’s want got me into this channel
The deep dives into music genres
But honestly I’m here for the Finn and all the endeavors
Much love from you favorite city CINCINNATI 😅😅
Exactly!
Yup
GWAR is a band that on the surface seems over the top and low brow id music, but they actually tackle how fucked up humanity is through their goofy insane songs and concept albums.
I feel like the pool transforming into a 7Eleven is a great line because spaces dedicated to community life being transformed into spaces for profit/materialism plays strongly into the rise of individualism. Loved the video!
It's a pool HALL As in a place to go and play the game of pool. Not a pool as in a place to go swiming.
I thought the same thing plus it can be viewed on a personal level of having great memories there and now it's a stark reminder that you won't be able to make more memories there in that poolhall.
Um, a pool hall is a bar with pool tables that you have to pay for? It a business based on vices...
Individualism is a good thing. Collective ideas are bullshit.
@@GermanEscobedo Yeah- convenience stores are a dime a dozen, but a local dive is something not easily replaced.
Would love to hear from these bands / members and what their views are today. After they grew up and had to maybe conform to society. I too am a musician and grew up in the 80s Metal / NYHC scene (Gothic Slam).....Great times..... Awesome video btw!
This reminds me of when I first watched your "Powerviolence" video, Finn! I don't know much about this stuff, but I feel like i do now! I can tell this stuff is important to you, and I appreciate your work in sharing these life experiences you had as a kid! Best music content channel on TH-cam!
Amazing by video Finn! I came up in that same 90’s scene. I credit a lot of my current views on the world to that time and what I was exposed to which ultimately lead to some unbelievable conversations about topics far beyond my teenage brain’s ability to consider. Amazing days back then. You’re right on the money too, the likelihood we might see this again (at least in our lifetime) is minimal. 🤘🏼
This video is great! Thank you. Shelter and Earth Crisis, in a round about way, brought me to Buddhism in HS (and the rest of my life).
You ever read the book Dharma Punx?
@@hellasalvy @saranoelle3927 I had a similar path. I loved the message of the Hare Krishna spirituality especially through 108, but I never took it too seriously as I was more educated by anarcho punk and religion was not good news. Years later I discovered the book "A Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life" by Santiveda and it blew my mind. Never looked back.
@@hellasalvy no, I will try to remember and look at it.
Awesome video Finn! I love this content. I was there in the 90’s hardcore scene. This video was like a trip down memory lane.
“Don’t let your outrage for injustice end where your selfishness begins”
- Earth Crisis
One of my personal favorite quotes
I loved this video Finn!! Stuff like this and the meaningful and deeper conversations that you have sometimes in your live streams is why I keep coming back. 💓
I think it's unfortunate that TH-cam has forced creators to feel the weight of needing to get views as this may be my favorite video you have done. You spoke from the heart and experience in a way that was enlightening and reminded me why I love the hardcore scene and culture. This evoked the idea from Bane's song "Can We Start Again?"
Regardless of how you feel in the end about this video from what it does or yield for view counts, thank you so much for making it and for what you shared. This was fantastic.
Shelter and earth crisis were some of the most important bands of my last couple years of high school, downset are straight up rad.
Straight up: GREAT video. This is something I wasn't aware of despite being a lifetime Hardcore fan / listener / participant. I have always looked for an outlet about sub-topics of the music I love, and this is amazing to find. Keep it up man!
As someone a few years younger than you Fin, I love when you do these types of videos littered with your experiences about the topic during the time it was happening.
You say that this video will get low viewing figures, but the topics that are connected to this period of hardcore tends to be forgotten. Glad you brought it up, Finn.
This video is awesome I love the more personal touch. You have so many good ideas and I’m glad you’re breaking out of the style of videos that you weren’t passionate about!
Here in Argentina there was a link between the hardcore scene and the hare krishna devotees too. And not only the hardcore scene, during the 90s this religion served as a way out of drug addiction and other dense stuff for many young people. Even when I was a little self destructive at the moment, I wasn´t really into religion, but I confess that I was a fan of the food they served in the indian and vegetarian fast food store they had attached to their temple. Now they moved to a more gentrified neighborhood and sometimes I go to feel a connection with the old days.
To my eternal shame, I was an edgy atheist when that scene got underway. I was a selfish, arrogant "anarcho-punk." I did not start to drift away from that cult until I traveled to the Far East in the early part of this century. It was too late and I received cosmic chastisement in 2019 when I woke up in ICU with a permanent disability. Had I only listened with an open mind. I have since been studying on my own and have learned nt to desire things that I do not need.
If you think that a higher power (cosmic) disables people to get them to go in a particular direction with their lives or with spirituality, then you have a very long way to go indeed...
I think all of our music consumption being primarily online has consolidated 'mainstream' and 'underground' to the same place, which kinda prevents new ideas, new movements in music from having the space to develop like it did in the past. It's a double-edged sword. On one hand it's great that more people have access to music than ever before, but on the other hand, it seems that music not being able to grow 'off-line' has been detrimental to some degree.
Have to check out Shelter! What a great video, I loved the whole angle on ideas 🤘🏻 I’m of the “had to get clean after trauma and punk rock” variety myself, shout out to your Mom for getting through and raising one cool dude
Love that Finn is branching out and talking about this kind of stuff, this is the good shiiiii-
Never heard of Shelter because I was never part of that scene, so I'm learning a lot here :)
Easily the best you have ever done. Excellent work. My first punk show was in 1979. The best thing about punk has always been about challenging authority and my/your way of thinking. You did that for me with this and it has been a long time. Thank you.
Bro this is exactly the content I've missed. Music is art. Art should cause you to think. I love the way these kinds of videos where people get to see how things used to be and see how art reflects those times. Not just a on a surface level and what was popular but also in counter culture. Question everything and open yourself to the answers. You never know what may find you. 10/10 brotha. This was great
Loving these new videos. Glad you’re doing what you want. Keep it up.
thank you finn for making a video you wanted to make, happy to see it.
thanks for this video! What got me into punk in the late 90s as I was a teenager was the freedom many bands had to ask complex questions. Don't get me wrong I do get the "lets have fun" part of punk and hardcore but there's that other part that makes you think about stuff youve never wondered before and that has progressively become more and more absent in the American punk/hardcore scene. That being said, it is a little sad that you mostly talk about American bands, there's a whole world of punk in Spanish from Mexico to Chile, and From Argentina to Spain, Italy and France. I'm glad I wasnt born in the US so I still get to appreciate what's being done in other parts of the world other than the US which isn't the norm for punk everywhere else.
Keep up the good work!
I grew up in the mid/late 90s NYHC scene. Biggest thing I miss is rolling up to the venue and seeing the crew. You knew you where gonna have a great night , even if the band wasn't so great... Lol
i too grew up in the nyhc scene. i was young and really got into it at around 94 myself. i grew up in queens and was surrounded by a great scene. even if i wanted no part in the scene, i couldnt escape it. it was all around me. literally every weekend, there were great show after great show all at different venues and you couldnt decide which one to go to and were afraid to miss out on the show you didnt go to. i really do miss it.
I was right in the middle of all of this and you summed it up... it got weird. and I had a fukkin blast with it. people underestimate the lyrical content and forward thinking\action hardcore bands had. yeah some of it was all unity and brotherhood (nothing wrong with that), but some like the bands mentioned here were exposing kids to all kinds of new ideas and social issues they never heard about at home, school, news. The work put into the DIY fanzines were incredible. as teen I was shocked that people my age built such a massive scene all by themselves. I've been in many scenes in my day, but this era holds a very special place in my heart. I'm glad I was there for it and glad I lived somewhere that had tons of shows.
Downset lyrics make me think they were basically Jedi
angerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Jedi lyrics while there friends jump the shit out of people 😂
@@noneofyourbusiness1114 😂😂😂💀
This is the way. Hahajaau
The jedi religion took a lot of inspiration from eastern philosophy. Mostly Buddhism if I'm remembering correctly, but there's alot of similarities between Buddhism and Hari Krishna
I've been watching Finn's videos for probably 5 years now and this video was super interesting, there could be more videos about hardcore, punk rock history, especially from Finn's youth. Thanks! Keep it coming!
Great seeing Finn make more stuff like this.
Great vid! Propagandhi has been asking these reflective questions since the early 90’s as well, and continue to do so.
I know it’s niche, but I’d love for you to do a Shelter video!
You just watched a Shelter video.
Me too!
@@ThePunkRockMBAha! You know what he meant. I would love it too.
@@ThePunkRockMBA 😂 I was referring to the part where you said you could make a whole video on Shelter and their lyrics, if I remembering it right
@@CamBoone He definitely did mention that. I'd 100% watch it
I came up a few years later- 94 and 95
I've often thought about making a video like this- and you made it already, thanks brother!
Krishnacore and vegan straight edge were pivotal in helping me get sober. Having an ideology, soundtrack, and community was crucial when dealing with something that feels isolating.
I had no idea about Krishnacore before this. I love the energy, sound, and passion of hardcore, and have been more drawn to Hindu ideas the last couple years so the fact this has culminated is mind-blowing to me and I'm excited to get down on this path.
@@magicmike1234I used to be a Hare Krishna. There’s a lot of good that really transformed my life. But also some cultish dogma that needs to be understood and preferably rejected. One main problem is the idea that their messiah was an incarnation of God who rejected the Vedic path. Problematic seeing as though their whole cult is meant to be based upon the Vedic religion.
I love everything about this video. I'm pretty much your exact age, Now I grew up listening to metal because I had two older brothers who were into that so that's what my very young impressionable ears heard most. I still love metal, but in middle school in '92 I heard my first Dead Kennedys song and I've been punk rock ever since. Why this video resonates with me is growing up in West Jordan Utah as a punk rocker who didn't do drugs and didn't like to hang out with them, the hardcore and straightedge kids were really the only kids I could connect with. I didn't love hardcore music and I never went straightedge, even though I never did drugs, but it was always around me so I always appreciated the message. Keep up doing your thing Finn, the people who care, will always care❤
Shelter will play in Brazil in December!
COME TO BRASIL
YESSSSSSS AGAIN AFTER 20YEARS!
I'm just a few years younger than you are, and it's such a delight to hear these sorts of videos based on your own experiences. I wasn't super into the hardcore scene at that time, but I had some friends who were. The number of interesting conversations generated from these types of lyrics inside of my friend group were amazing, and I am deeply grateful for them bringing some of these ideas to kids growing up in the middle of nowhere Ohio. I'm not sure that I would have been exposed to them in any other way at the time, and they made me a much more critical thinker.
The problem with punk is that we were a bunch of dumb-smart mfs
Yes
You mean we might have been intelligent but lacked wisdom. It’s like the woke movement today.
@@michaeldolch9126 well said
@@michaeldolch9126 probably a direct descendent of the commie punks in SF. MRR had a long history of trying to cancel bands for lyrics and then youd see the band have to write in and explain what satire is bc the guy who wrote the lyrics was actually gay or whatever
Intelligence without wisdom is like driving a very fast car without a steering wheel. You need to know where you’re going.
We've had vegan punk in the UK since very early days, subhumans, culture shock, crass, napalm death etc. Mostly started from the squat party and free festivals scene from early 80's
The bassist of early eighties Ohio hardcore band 0DFx, Brad Warner, became a pretty well known Zen master. In his book Hardcore Zen he writes a.o. about the overlap between the straight edge movement and buddhism.
Yeah. It took me a while to find out that they pronounced their band name as Zero Defects.
Commenting for the algo so that Finn makes more content like this. Love it when your passion and thought-provoking personality come through. And I get a hardcore history lesson? Sick.
This is probably my favorite video of yours. I didn't realize how luck I was to come up during that time period until I got much older. My interest in environmentalism, vegetarianism, spirituality, leftist politics, all that came from the 90s HXC scene. Fantastic video
Great video! I learned so much from 90s hardcore as well. We were lucky to be exposed to so many new ideas that didn’t exist in the main stream. One particular band I’m reminded of after watching this is Outspoken. One of my favorites!
On a positive discussion vibe, I would disagree with the final statement though.. It's great to think about all the metaphysical stuff but if the end conclusion is "there's nothing we can do about it" no real point in questioning... I still think the strength in punk lies in giving power to act, to send messages, and build communities.. sure, we have to play the game to some extent, we need saliries, quality of life, personal goal, but there is a possible collective achievement that we should strive or die trying
Yes but also sometimes you need to evaluate whether those aims are realistic, according to your own particular life circumstances and personal goals, and whether the real possibility of enacting that change in your area is worth giving up your personal goals (such as starting a family and supporting that family while trying to avoid raising them in poverty because we know how growing up in poverty makes us all more susceptible to experiencing trauma and negative life outcomes).
I fought for two decades to further the cause of socialism. Had some successful reforms passed, but nothing that actually built real socialism. The movement also has been coopted by radical liberals and so there’s no point, as someone in my position and with my particular talents/skills (and the ones I lack that would be necessary to achieve the movement’s aims), to throw away my life and my children’s lives on a movement that is essentially a vampire.
For what it's worth, this is my favorite video of the last 5 years I've been watching this channel. It's super insightful and it's clear that you chose your words very carefully throughout. I've always appreciated your "personal experience" content as well as your "history of" videos and this was the perfect blend of the two. I hope to see much more content of the sort going forward.
I'll be honest but through all these years, even though I have disagreed with Finn on multiple occasions, I still enjoy his content. In an alternative universe, he, me and Dan Frampton are having a beer and goofing around about various topics.
Finn is the friendly uncle who disagrees with you on most topics, but you have the best discussions with and receive respect.
Welcome back Finn. Nice to see you doing stuff you care about again. Shelter was so different at the time but in our local scene they were respected in the same way as Fucazi was by following their own ethical path.
May I add to all this, with the band CRASS!? Their albums talk about how religion is an opiate for the masses, etc... but my favorite album will always be P*nis Envy.. where they talk about the wonderful world us women live in.. and they did this in the early 80s in Britian, during Thatcher's government.. they tried to encourage people to think of why thing were the way they were and maybe let's change it!! They were into the whole DIY, ideal, making their own record company to be able to get their own records out... They've been a favorite band of mine, ever since I heard and bought a double record set of 'the feeding of 5000' and Jesus christ - the album..
Also, I want to add that CRASS was singing about veganism back in the early 80s..
Not just Crass. The entire anarcho-punk scene and hardcore punk scene influenced and meshed with anarcho-punk, aka crust scene. It's a mesh of early abrasive, politically aware, darker punk with fast hardcore punk and little bit of metal, but mostly punk. And all of that happened even before crossover scene during mid 80s. So, thinking man's punk isn't just something reserved to one scene or time. To omit this fact shows Finn's biased against this major part of punk culture.
@@iachtulhu1420yes he totally is. Not only is he biased to his regional form of punk but he seems to think that basically “the kids these days will never be as deep or authentic as we were”. I hate that mentality. Pessimistic and dumb. If anyone wants to listen to some politically motivated punk check out the British stuff like Rudimentary Peni, Crass, Subhumans, Amebix and many more. These bands asked the same questions but also made unique and expressive art that’s a lot more interesting to listen to.
i really like these types of vids from u, the rockism n punk vid still got me rewatchin
Amazing video @Finn! Thank you for sharing this super important history. As a former Straight Edge Vegan that spent a year in jail for taking direct action, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain what motivated us in the 90s.
Now as a pastor and dad of three teenagers, it’s hard to explain to my kids and young people what it was like in the scene growing up.
Please continue to make this amazing content. We really appreciate you and all of the hard work!
This was so interesting to watch. Having gotten into punk and hardcore a little later in life, I love seeing these videos about the history and more niche subgenres and especially of your own experiences in the scene. Great vid!
The fact that there’s an “established punk rock ideology” is immediately going against what punk is supposed to be.
So Punk ‘having an ideology’ goes against what punk is supposed to be about? So Punk is about something? Man I wonder if there’s a term for ‘being about something’….
What a ridiculous thing to say.
Just because Punk is a fluid, anti-status quo idea about not fitting into the norm doesn’t mean that it’s devoid of anything linguistically and ideologically.
You gonna say Punk isn’t a genre of music because THAT goes against what punk is? You’re a fool.
Great one. Maybe hitting me in the feels because I’m from the same time and scene. Thanks loving this deeper dive on the culture
I'm about 10 years older than Finn. The big issue in hardcore before this was racists vs everyone else. Groups like Confederate Hammerskins and American Front trying to take over in the mid 80s. Bands like SOD, Agnostic Front, and Cro Mags horrified to see Nazis loved them until the bands had to explicitly tell them off. By the late 80s the Nazi skins had been driven out by the first Antifa, SHARP, ARA, JBAKC, and gangs like the Suicidals, Baldies, FSU Crew.
These same issues were around earlier with bands like DOA, Crass, 7 Seconds. I remember the Vancouver Five being celebrated, an early set of bombers who attacked logging companies and porn stores. But it really took the defeat of Nazi skins for there to be any kind of space for political organizing or even anybody allowed in who wasn't white and right wing. At its worse both Jello Biafa and Jimmy Ramone were attacked, nonracists of all kind intimidated, and even entire scenes like San Diego terrorized. Finn would have come into hardcore having missed all of that, so he can't be blamed for not discussing or knowing about it.
Finn doesn't discuss or know about the various ideology or issues of the previous Hardcore/Punk scene(s) because he doesn't care about it, not because he wasn't there. I'm about the same age as he is and, give or take a couple of years, got into listening to Punk around then but know the stuff he is talking about is very limited. Yet he presents himself as an authoritative on Hardcore Punk when he really is just a guy wanting to make money doing TH-cam videos. In regards to the stuff he is claiming in this video, even back then I knew it wasn't entirely correct.
The Krishna stuff wasn't introduced by Ray Cappo from Shelter in the 90's. Even before Cro-Mags recorded their debut LP in the mid 80's, vocalist John Joseph was into that Krishna stuff in the early 80's. It may have been influenced by HR from Bad Brains and his Rastafarian beliefs with that PMA, I guess. The same thing with the veganism/vegetarian Bloodclot and others in NY were into through Krishna, Dave MDC was writing songs about it in SF after moving from TX. Before that Crass was talking about that stuff in the late 70's in the UK starting a whole movement with real Anarchism. Shelter weren't really making that big a wave as he claims, outside of some fans and that issue of MRR where they interviewed Cappo. Youth of Today were the bigger band Cappo fronted previously and they had been talking about some of those conscience issues already because they were straight edge. Prior to those mid to late 80's sXe bands, Minor Threat and 7 Seconds and Youth Brigade through their whole BYO and Positive Force thing were discussing it like you said.
In addition of mentioning Vancouver 5 of Subhumans like you said, the early Canadian Punk scene were heavily into environmentalism doing benefit shows. Finn saying that nobody was focused on it until those mid 90's hardcore bands is just plain wrong. Biafra and MDC and the other Subhumans in the UK, etc. were talking about it. I could go on and on but his take is just myopic. I say that because he repeatedly claims the earlier Punk/Hardcore scenes and bands were just negative and simple-minded when that couldn't be further from the truth. I once read a comment where someone asked him to do a video on some early UK Punk band (I forget which one, probably UK Subs) and he simply said it was before his time and he is really not interested in those bands (He is definitely is interested in Nu-Metal and all that corporate rock, though). The guy thinks Dead Kennedys were a negative band because they criticized cops.
What if the racists were right
@@biggoathorns:D Like here in good old Germany? I dont think so 🕳️🚮
@@biggoathorns we meaning all of humanity except the ignorant know they and you are wrong. We know it science knows it and every ethical and moral belief and believer knows it.
This is one of my favorite video’s you’ve done and I had the same experience with Shelter as a senior in high school. Thank you for reminding me of how much that band meant to me ❤
Fifteen was ahead of their time. All the stuff they used to sing about it is now mainstream and even taught in College.
Thanks for making this video, Finn! I was really interested in hearing more from you on the 90s hardcore scene so I'm really glad that you made this video. I really liked the vibe of it. Definitely thought-provoking.
It isn't that people are scared to change anything. The machine won't let the changes happen. The changes needed to fix a lot of the terrible consequences we are dealing with socially, economically, spiritually, and environmentally are being forcibly stifled. The "right" and "left" everyone argues about are two arms of the exact same machine. Anyone who says, does, or invents anything that can actually help humanity as a whole is deplatformed, bought out and absorbed, or murdered. Greed is the soul of the machine and it will be the death of us all. I used to be a hardcore alcoholic materialist that measured my worth by the amount of shit I owned, and how hard I could party. Until I started falling apart physically and my life crumbled around me. Then a lot of the messages from these type of bands actually made sense. Now I make a livable wage doing something that keeps me outdoors doing physically demanding work. So that at the end of the day I feel a sense of accomplishment and then have a good meal I cook myself. I've been sober for about four years now. I try to support the people in my life I love anyway I can. Keep myself healthy and strong. Take care of my kids. And most importantly is I reject as much shit from the machine as I possibly can. If I didn't have kids I'd probably be in a cave in the woods somewhere.
This guy gets it 👍🏼
I hate the political tribalism from both sides. They’re all full of it.
so close, but no.
Yeah maaaaaan 😂
This is it Fin! Yes your entertaining videos are awesome, but these more informative ones that teach me something new about music and scenes I know little to nothing about are so authentic and refreshing! Hope life is treating you well!
This is now my favorite video of yours. I was there at the same time, listening to the same bands, questioning the same issues. Thank you for this.
Bro, this was such a fucking excellent video!
I had forgotten about Day of Suffering, and I'm glad I'm not the only one that loves Shelter.
Glad to see a video about music and bands you actually like.
A video about The Smiths could be interesting, their first album from the early-mid 80s was called Meat is Murder, they have some interesting perspectives in their lyrics about love/attachment, and Morrissey has had a whole weird problematic trajectory with his social/political comments
I'm torn, because that album played such an important role in my teen years, but Morrissey is such a piece of shit. It's crazy to have such a humble guy (Johnny Marr) next to a complete egotist.
Finn, I adore your videos. I look forward to them. They may not always be a new topic, but they're always intelligently done, and very well put together. This video is gold though. I have found new music that I thoroughly enjoy from watching your videos. I have gone down rabbit holes because of them. I've learned even more on my own because of you. Thank you for that ...for all of your content. Also, I love when your opinion is different from mine because that just gives me another way to look at something.
"Punk is dumb" (checks notes: Crass, Flux of Pink Indians, Conflict, etc)
Dead Kennedy's, minor threat, 7 seconds, Bad Brains... the List goes on, punk has always had deep thoughts and positive mental attitudes
@@gooseabusethey're not that deep, bud
Neither are any of these bands Finn's talking about. I'm just saying punk wasn't exclusively "oi oi oi, don't give a fuck, lets get drunk"
@@gooseabuse The oi oi oi let's get drunk (because nothing really matters) was quite fun in its own right.
Rudimentary Peni, D.I., The Dicks, MDC the list goes on
What a banger video. I loved the message here even though I'm not really into punk as a music genre