Talleyrand’s Princess: Dorothea of Courland
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2022
- Princess Dorothea of Courland witnessed and lived through some of the most momentous events of the 19th century. Her story is about love, betrayal, politics, diplomacy, and meeting powerful personalities, who dominated the European political scene during and after the Napoleonic Wars.
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Sources / Further Reading:
Silhouettes Historiques, Marquis de Segur, Paris, Calmann-Levy, Editeurs
Souvenirs de la duchesse de Dino publiés par sa petite fille, la Comtesse Jean de Castellane, Paris, Calmann-Levy, Editeurs
Memoirs to Serve for the History of Napoleon I, 1802-1815, by Baron Claude-Francois de Meneval, Translated by Robert H. Sherard, London, Hutchinson & Co., 1895 - Vol. II
Memoirs of the Prince de Talleyrand, Edited by The Duc de Broglie, Translated by Raphael Ledos de Beaufort, London, Griffith Farran Okeden and Welsh, 1891 - Vol. II
Memoirs of the Duchesse de Dino, 1836-1840, Edited by The Princess Radziwill, Second Series, London, William Heinemann, 1910
Memoirs of the Duchesse de Dino, 1841-1850, Edited by The Princess Radziwill, Third Series, London, William Heinemann, 1910
Memoirs of Prince Adam Czartoryski and His Correspondence with Alexander I, Edited by Adam Gielgud, London, Remington & Co. Publishers, 1888 - Vol. II
www.google.co.uk/books/editio...
Talleyrand’s Last Duchess by Francoise de Bernardy, Translated from the French by Derek Coltman, New York: Stein and Day, 1966.
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Image Credits:
Portrait de Dorothee de Courlande by Histoirefr - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Grafiene-Doroteja by Robert Lefevre (1755-1830), Rundāle Palace, Latvia - CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
The Friedrichsfelde manor in Berlin by «A.Savin, WikiCommons»
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
The Duchy of Courland and Semigallia in 1740 by No machine-readable author provided. MapMaster assumed - CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Sagan Castle by Kriskros - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0 PL, commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Château de Valençay by Jean-Christophe BENOIST - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
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A lot of your videos have had me thinking, "This story would make a good movie!" But this story could be a TV series over several seasons!
Lovely to hear that, James. Thank you very much for your kind words. Much appreciated!
@@livesandhistories She had some interesting descendants too. Her grandson Boson de Talleyrand-Perigord was a cavalry officer and a leading dandy in French high society in the late 19th century. Her great-grandson Boni de Castellane was another leading social figure in the Belle Epoque who married Anna Gould, daughter of US financier Jay Gould, leading to a divorce after he spent $10 million of her father's money. (Her next husband was Boson's son!) He spent the next 18 years in an unsuccessful quest to get the Vatican to declare an annulment so he could remarry within the Church. Her granddaughter Dorothee de Talleyrand-Perigord hosted a popular salon in Berlin, and later another in Paris where she was an inspiration for Marcel Proust. (A LA RECHERCHE DU TEMPS PERDU has a character called Princesse de Sagan, whose name was the origin of BONJOUR, TRISTESSE author Francoise Sagan's pen name.)
She had a daughter of unknown paternity and fate, and there's a rumour that she grew up to be Czech writer Bozena Nemcova (whose image is on the Czech 500-koruna note), but that seems far-fetched.
@@Blaqjaqshellaq Colourful characters, colourful lives! When researching for Dorothea’s story, I’ve come across some of the names you mentioned. History is fascinating! Thank you for sharing your thoughts here.
Superb as always L&H, she was indeed a very remarkable beautiful lady, Thank you for this lovely lady's remarkable life.
She was, indeed. Thanks for watching, Robert.
@@livesandhistories always a plesure Thank you L&H
What an interesting and beautiful love story between her and Tallyrand.
I have heard of Tallyrand many times while reading of French history, especially around the revolution and the Napoleonic years...but I never heard of his long time with Princess Dorothea.
Thank you for yet another wonderly narrated history lesson, in the form of an captivating story.
I'm delighted you found this interesting. It is my belief that history appeals to more people if it is presented in the form of a story. All the best to you.
Princess Dorothea's life was a real life adventure. It is incredibly admirable how she did not let the tragedies she experienced in her life hinder her. Thank you for this video. I noticed a new style in this video. It's very nice.
You're right, she was incredibly resilient. I'm delighted you liked this video. Thank you for watching.
Superb and exceptionally detailed account!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you very much for watching.
This video about Talleyrand and Dorothea covers one of my favorite historical figures - Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Perigord. It’s a shame that more people aren’t aware of his work, intelligence and dedication to France. I’d like to share titles of three books that other interested persons might find as informative and mesmerizing as I did.
Talleyrand, by Duff Cooper. This is the definitive biography on Talleyrand and it’s exquisitely written. I’ve read it more than once!
By Influence & Desire, The True Story of Three Extraordinary Women - The Grand Duchess of Courland and Her Daughters, by Rosalynd Pflaum
The Congress Dances, Vienna 1814-1815, by Susan Mary Alsop
These three books provide a unique insight into the Old Regime, the aristocracy of Europe before and after Napoleon as well as the brilliant mind of Talleyrand. There is a phenomenal wealth of historical data in these books which is fascinating. Taken as a whole, the story in these books would make for a fabulous TV show.
Thanks for a wonderful video.
I'm delighted you liked this video. To my mind, Talleyrand was a unique figure in history. Thank you for sharing your thoughts here.
I would add two in English, translated from the French: "Talleyrand: the Art of Survival" (Talleyrand: Le sphinx Incomprise) by Jean Orieux, 1974
and "Talleyrand's Last Duchess" (Le Dernier Amour de Talleyrand) by Francoise de Bernardy, 1966
Very informative! I love these videos of hidden gems! Thank you
Glad you like them! Very kind of you to say that. Thank you.
What an interesting woman and story. Talleyrand has always been someone who I found appealing and unique, for better or for worse. Dorothea must have been a highly interesting and committed woman, considering the fact she spent decades with Talleyrand, both as his protégé and -most likely- lover. Thank you for the video!
I'm a fan of Talleyrand, too!
Wow!! What an amazing & fascinating woman, & what an amazing & fascinating life story! Hearing what she wrote herself, not just what others wrote about her, was great. I kinda hate Rousseau tho- the only point of educating women is "to please men"?! And yet, in the face of this, women like Dorothea educated themselves, & impressed the world with their intellegence & knowledge, & it's cool that Talleyrand recognised that, & she got to use it, not just her beauty.
I'm really glad you liked meeting Dorothea. You're right about Rousseau - I agree with you. Thank you for watching, Beth.
@@livesandhistories Yeah, sadly there are still Rousseaus around, but thankfully their misogyny isn’t backed up by law anymore.
If only Jean-Jacques Rousseau had applied his principles to his own 5 children he had abandonned!
Great Video
I'm really glad you think so. Thank you for watching, Savage.
Very good video, very clearly presented. I hadn’t heard of this interesting lady, she certainly was beautiful.
I'm glad you liked meeting this lady. Thank you for watching, Kimberly.
Always interesting stories...Thank you.💐💐
So nice of you to say that. Thank you for watching, Stella.
Your videos are all masterpieces and I especially enjoyed this one!
I am delighted to hear that. Your kind words put a smile to my face. Thank you for watching.
Impeccably researched and delivered, I love your videos so densely informative, I rarely find myself asking questions about the characters you illuminate because you cover them so well. Bravo and thanks so much. Have subscribed to your channel. Best wishes.
I'm am so glad you are here, watching my videos. I feel encouraged when I get such feedback. Thank you very much for your support.
I have said it before and I will do so again: Your pronunciation of the german names is absolutely splendid ^-^
It is very sad to hear that the mother actually needed to be persuaded by someone unrelated to her daughter that Dorothea is an intelligent child deserving of a proper and good education as opposed to the torture she was subjected to before that.
Very weird, aswell. I guess I can not expect everyone to love their children, love is not always going in the direction we would expect. But why does it seem so hard for some people to at least grant their children the respect and positive treatment that every creature on this world deserves by default?
Oh my, according to some of the quotes from her, she sounds like a very honest and outspoken princess, i like it :)
For example what she says to her future husband when first confronted with him is absolutely amazing, in my opinion. I imagine that not many would have had it in them to be so open about their feelings in that situation due to the pressures they were usually subject to.
It is very very interesting to get a more personal angle at Talleyrand through her aswell :)
You obviously often hear about him in the context of the Congress of Vienna on a political level, but rarely you hear about the personal lives of the major players in it.
I very much enjoy that, thank you so much
I think that Dorothea’s lonely childhood shaped her as an individual. Perhaps, she realised that she had to fend for herself. Similarly, Talleyrand had a lonely childhood and was neglected by his parents. It could have been that this was another aspect that made them understand each other really well.
In my opinion, both of them were survivors, so to speak. As you say, it must have been really unpleasant for them to be scrutinised and judged by society.
I’m really glad you liked this video. Thank you very much for your kind words and support. Make sure you look after yourself. With every good wish, L&H.
Thank you, ❤️
The reason Talleyrand was anxious to have descendants by his one remaining nephew (a military man with a pedestrian intellect who had a gambling problem) was that as a laisicised former Bishop he was forbidden by the Church to marry (although Napoleon forced him into an invalid civil marriage to his then-current mistress, Catherine Grand, who he soon separated from and pensioned off). Talleyrand had no legitimate descendants, though he had many by his succession of mistresses.
The man who brought Dorothea (& her rank, intelligence, and fortune) to Talleyrand's attention was in fact, her natural father.
Dorothea was an "ugly duckling" when she arrived age 15 in France with her beautiful mother. The charismatic, witty Talleyrand and Dorothea's elegant and charming mother soon became lovers. It was only after 21-year - old Dorothea's triumph as Talleyrand's hostess, "spy," confidant, and secretary - colleague, helping him compose important and sensitive documents at the French embassy at the Congress of Vienna, that Talleyrand, who had come to trust and depend on her sound judgement, realised to his surprise that he had fallen in love with her.
After the Congress, Dorothea had gone for many months with her devoted lover Clam Martninez to Venice. the normally cynical Talleyrand wasn't jealous that she had other lovers; but dismayed to discover how much he missed her brilliant intellect, strong character, sincere kindness, and sound common-sense. So, a man previously noted for his sphinx -like cool composure wrote to her in an agony of heartsick loneliness, saying that he couldn't manage without her, and please return to him? She did, and was his constant companion for the next 25 years until his death. He treated her as a colleague, although she was quick to point out that she never dominated his powerful and subtle intellect, and knew better than to challenge him once he had made up his mind about an issue. Each was fascinated by the other's mind, and obsession with politics; an unusual but strong basis for mutual respect love.
It seems pretty obvious that Pauline (b. 1820) was their love child -- they both adored her, and she was devoted to them.
At the time of Pauline's conception, there were no other men in Dorothea's life. And Talleyrand, despite his limp and being 38 years older than Dorothea, was notoriously attractive to women even into old age; and he was whispered to be a ravishing and tender lover.
From his youth, this powerful and politically dangerous man, feared and hated by many, liked and valued the company of intelligent as well as beautiful women, probably because as a lonely child he had ( because of the deformity of his foot) been rejected by his beautiful aristocratic mother whom he (futilely) wished to please and be loved by.
Perhaps Talleyrand's greatest diplomatic feat was keeping most of his former lovers as cherished and lifelong friends. A, subtle political manipulator capable of of icy ruthlessness; justifiably called amoral, venal, and "a survivor," who could turn his coat according to his uncanny ability to analyse and be ahead of the zeitgeist, could be a deadly enemy, but he was loyal and loving to his friends.
Charles - Maurice and Dorothea were soul mates, best friends, and partners in manipulating the power politics of international diplomacy.
Eine erstaunliche Vorstellung einer recht entzückenden Geschichte.
Vielen Dank!
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Nice! Your videos should be seen by more watchers. Can I repost your channel without changing anything on the clean platform named Ganjing World? Thank you!
this is my 10th great grandmother
Wonderful!
@@livesandhistories i am in America but one of these days i want to go visit where she lived and buried at
@@danielbolger25 I really liked Dorothea, and her story was very interesting to me. You'll have many places to visit here in Europe, as she travelled a lot.
I'm always for Women's Rights!!❤
Talleyrand was a great seducer. Napoleon used to say about him: "his pockets are full of women..."
That's a fair assessment of Talleyrand, I'd say.
Not entirely fair. Talleyrand was a gentleman of the 18th century. The ancient regime had rules of courtesy lost to us: If a woman did not respond to a man's flirtation (always in good taste) it went no further.
Prince de Talleyrand had women friends with whom he had slept, and woman friends with whom he had an affectionate platonic regard. He respected both (a womaniser does not).
Despite his limp and ugly, misshapen feet, women found him physically as well as intellectually attractive .
He was an educated polymath, charming and witty. Even his enemies found his company (especially at his legendary dinner parties) charismatically fascinating. Astonishingly, he kept most of his old mistresses as cherished friends into old age, writing, sending little gifts, and visiting them for the pleasure of their company when they were old and no longer beautiful. They all knew each other, (and were called his "Seraglio"); maintained a deep affection for him, and used to hold delightful salons to share wit and political gossip with him, even when he was out of favour at court.
One impoverished and homeless Polish countess (with only one eye) he housed at his various chateaux for over 20 years; she was a kindly companion and friend of his last mistress, the Duchess of Dino. When the old Countess died, Talleyrand wept and had her buried in the crypt he build in the chapel of Valençay where he himself would be buried.
An aristocrat statesman of the 18th century, Talleyrand did not mind mixing the business of politics with socialising in Salons; he was quoted as saying "Politics IS women," as he understood the value of enduring relationships with those whose loyalty could be "bought" with affection and respect. He trusted his women friends enough to ask them to gather and share intelligence for him. They appreciated his treating them as intellectual equals.
@@adrianjohnson7920 In fact Taleyrand knew a lot of women... This means that he appreciated female's company. He was a seducer, but it doesn't mean that he slept with all of them. He could seduce them with his mind, his sense of humour, his knowledge, his fame etc...When Napoleon said : "his pockets are full of women" it means that he used to be surrounded by a lot of pretty or charming women. Nothing else. This is not pejorative. Napoleon didn't like Taleyrand. So, this statement could have been the sign of a kind of jalousy toward his minister... On the contrary, Napoleon liked women, but was not a seducer. He was a sort of military macho who didn't understand female's psychology...He was sometimes rude to them, but never when he felt in love ( Josephine de Beauharnais and the polish countess...). That's all.
@@adrianjohnson7920 You can only say that practically if you were there in the 18th century. You weren't there, so you're part of the asylum crowd that thinks they know everything, but doesn't take a bath.