Will Lightweight Pulleys Destroy My Engine?!?!?!?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- Yes, No and Maybe.... depending on your particular situation lightweight pulleys can range anywhere from instant disaster to not making any difference at all for your engine. Check out this video and I'll explain.
The Racer Dave channel was created to help share information, get people involved in auto racing, and share some exciting race videos. Most auto racers like to be secretive about what they're doing but I want to share everything I can to help people get started and be successful. Although I have a long history of racing bikes and motorcycles, I didn't start really getting involved in auto racing until 2014 when I started just riding along as a passenger in rallycrosses. In 2015 I started co-driving in rallys and dual entering a buddies car in rallycrosses. By 2016 I was hooked and decided to dive in head first and build my own full on rally car! I found the advice of pros was interesting but usually not the perspective I was looking for as a newby. Subscribe and follow me as I share all the tips and tricks that I learn along the way!
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1) flat 4 or flat 6 or inline 4 DO NOT have harmonic balancer, harmonic balancer only exist on cross plane v8
2) the reason boxer engine was developed is because it doe not inherit vibrations like other type of engine
3) harmonic balancer was a “band aid” vibration fix for cross plane v8 in the early days because the crank’s too long and the engine balance Tolerance is just not there compare to Japanese cars..
4) don’t install light weight pulley on v6, in-line 6, flat plane v8, cross plane. V8.
5) you can run pulley on inline 4, flat 4, flat 6
Thanks for the input! No engine is perfectly balanced and all have harmonics. If they were perfectly balanced you wouldn’t feel any vibration. Obviously as you pointed out some engines are inherently a lot worse than others which is why it’s important to research your engine before doing this mod. Maybe it’s a matter of semantics on what an actual “harmonic damper” is but the Subaru pulley is a two piece pulley with a rubber isolator in the center to reduce vibrations. Regardless of what you call it the considerations are still the same.
@@RacerDave harmonic balancer is similar to a dampener, but has a counterweight to balance the crank. Subaru’s don’t need this. The crank is well balanced and somewhat lightweight in comparison. Like my VW tdi or VR6 cranks are tanks in comparison to my EJ205 or EZ30 cranks.
My dohc 4cyl came with a harmonic balancee
Great little breakdown on the harmonics man - cheers and keep killing it out there on the dirt!!!
Subaru engines will destroy themselves without the aid of deleting the harmonic balancer
Hahaha, an argument can definitely be made that this is true especially when you modify them more than just a little.
@@RacerDave yeah, my 1st Rexy dropped compression on one pot for no reason we could figure out. My second one I’m kinda scared to even put my foot down anymore 😞 Think it’s time to sell and get something that will be slower but I can beat on a bit . . .
That made me laugh but now I’m very very concerned being this is my first subi engine
SO. Fluid Dampers for modified cars. Got it!
I don’t believe in the premature wear myth with a little piece of rubber in a dampened pulley it doesn’t stop any vibrations. The heavy pulley is used because a lot of cars are balanced externally with a heavy pulley - my Honda Accord has a lightweight pulley because those engines are internally balanced. I’ve also had a 3000gt with over 100k miles with a lightweight aluminum pulley and solid motor mounts so it has unbelievable amount of vibrations also lots of myths that solid mounts will destroy your engine as well. No issues on the 3000gt with solid motor mounts and the pulley.
Thank you for your comment. Harmonic vibrations are a very real problem and like I said the video some engines are affected much more drastically than others. And like placing your finger on a tuning fork to stop it’s harmonic, a tuned damper using weights and rubber is very effective. As for the solid mounts, they aren’t associated with internal harmonics. They are associated with larger amplitude lower frequency whole engine vibrations which may potentially rattle things loose or crack metallic parts that aren’t designed to handle those kinds of loads but again it’s super dependent on which engine and which chassis you have. Obviously your particular setup and driving style is a great example of a car that has little to no side effects from removing the harmonic damper. (I’m assuming it had one originally) Oh and in reference to internal vs. external balancing that is just different methods to solve the overall issue of weight distribution of the rotating assembly to make sure the CG is in line with the spinning axis. If it’s out of balance it will vibrate at all speeds but will get worse as RPMs go up because the energy gets higher.
It’s been 2 years I own a 3000 gt and also have solid motor mount is your 3000 gt still good dit you feel more power dit it damage the engine or no thanks
What year you got?
I have a LWCP for my '09 Impreza 2.5i and have driven 11-12k kilometers spiritly with it on and it hasn't given me issues!
Yep, I have 0ver 200 000 KM with a LWCP on my 08 Impreza including about 60 track days, Even have a lightweight flywheel too.
@@skiptastic1000 Yes same! Got a LWFW as well
@@l.zhang_ I did have the idle raised, was a little rough at a stop with the Air conditioning running. Fine now.
@@skiptastic1000 Should people be talking about how a light flywheel can destroy the transmission also? Since the factory weight and rubbers are there to turn out NVH. lol Just saying it's kind of a pointless debate when I hear things about low HP vehicles exploding due to a lightweight pulley.
Just installed a fluidampner and damn it's smooth. I instantly noticed the difference. 02 Bugeye WRX daily driver. 🤘🏻
180,000 miles, o4 VW R32 with lw pullies. Guys will say its no good, but i havent experienced a down side
Thanks for the input for the VW drivers out there!
A harmonic balancer is not a pulley. A pulley is used to drive a belt and not balance anything and the drive pulley is mounted to the crankshaft's harmonic balancer. A harmonic balancer is used to reduce torsional twist. A better name for it is harmonic damper. This is the purpose of the outer ring attached to the hub via a type of rubber so it can move back and forth offsetting the effects of torsional twist. By removing a stock harmonic balancer it can cause engine main bearings to spall (spots where the babbit overlay have come off) or even a crankshaft to break. A lightweight pulley will do no harm to an engine, its harmonic balancer, air conditioning compressor, vacuum pump, smog pump or power steering pump but keep in mind that aluminum will wear faster than steel.
I believe most people are confusing balancers with dampeners, which is what is most pulleys. Balancers were really only used on American big V8s back post 90's because they were never internally balanced. Very rare do you find cars today that are not balanced internally.
Dope video! Post more nevada rally footage ! See ya in 2021 😎
I will. I'm currently working on my Rally Colorado video but Rally Nevada is right after that.
All i had to hear was the first part, subaru 😂 those are ticking time bombs
The accessories and drive belt/s actually help dampen vibration, so running a lightweight pulley with no belts is a bad idea. Most stock pulleys only dampen vibration at a specific rpm due to cost so removing them is negligible, over a certain amount of power say 100 HP/liter a fluid damper should be used.
FA20 doesn't have a Harmonic balancer if it did I think they need a certain tool to remove an actual Harmonic balancer as intended. That being said I think it would have been different on the EJ platform.
I have a friend with an 86-track car running a lightweight pulley setup that has seen countless track days and still going strong after 1yr
Read my comments also
I am lead to believe early EJ maybe have been but pretty sure on the FA
Light Crank Pulley on my 4cyl diesel toyota engine...no problem at all...
Hondas are internally balanced and only need a dampener when you get in the high horsepower so next to never 😆
I would go with ATI or FluiDamper for crank pulley. I am thinking of adding GFB p/s and alt pullies.
Would you recommend them (minus crank pulley)?
Definitely. Those smaller pulleys are fairly light from the factory so you’re not going to save a ton of weight but you’re going to save some and every little bit counts. Plus if you care about looks they sure look better.
Definitely helpful!
Yes there are plenty of cars that don't even come stock with H.B.er's
i say change every pulley to lightweight aluminium and lightweight flywheel to minimize rotating mass; but keep harmonic balancer heavy stock, or update it to Super Damper. vibrating comes mostly to crankshaft; when example cylinder 1 making high torque and littlebit bending crankshaft all the way to flywheel and next Stroke isn't powerstroke anymore, and it bending another way etc and that back and forth vibrating that harmonic balancer try to minimize... so high torque low rev heavy piston turbodiesels are more sensitive to snap crankshaft, than lightweight rotating high rev petrol engines without mass eliminating that vibration othen end of crankshaft
I agree. I think that’s the best mix of performance and reliability. My Subaru sure ran good with that configuration.
For the H6s that are more naturally balanced (supposedly), is the harmonic balancing even necessary?
I don’t have any experience with H6s but if what you say is true I’d still put it in the same category as other Subarus where you can probably get away without one and it may still be fairly reliable but if you want the most reliability and longevity out of your motor definitely run a balancer.
We have an EZ30 in one of our Foresters, we have run a lightweight flywheel, but not a crank pulley. Don’t buy a cheap flywheel. We made that mistake. The only mod we made to the EZ30 swap besides a standalone ecu, is we now run LS coils. They are more reliable and cheaper. Ours is rev happy in stock form. I plan on building my other one for boast in the future.
Subaru technicians claim that it’s not actually a harmonic balancer it’s nothing more than just a pulley not sure if this is true
Were they able to describe why the pulleys are extremely heavy two piece steel pulleys with an intermediate layer of rubber bonded in between them? Car manufacturers don’t make expensive, heavy, less reliable parts just for fun plus you can google Subaru harmonic balancer and see the OE style pulley for sale at parts stores listed as a harmonic balancer. You may want to be careful what you let those technicians work on on your car.
Subaru of America has confirmed they function only as a pulley not a harmonic balancer. The rubber ring is there to reduce noise from the belt tracking on the pulley
You mean people who spin bearings and blame it on the pully that it is the pully and it has nothing to do with the cars that don't have baffles in the oil pan when they run on the track?
Wonder what a 2004 tl 6mt v6 would do with one
Good question. Definitely do some research before making the swap though.
Sup bro i got a Tl too, from whT ive read we are solid for a lightweight, we have a very well internally balanced engine compared to most that have issues
hi, can you make a video about how much money you spend for racing? like How much did you spend for your car ? How much cost per rally race.we get information about average costs
. Thanks already
That's hard to narrow down because your costs can vary wildly depending on your car and your level of seriousness. Event costs can be all over the place too depending on the event.
@@RacerDave yes i understand. bu i thought
if you give information about your own costs. people have an idea about average costs
..would be helpful. thanks for your answer
@@espa9284 A basic budget racer can plan to spend $3-5k per two day national event. I'm currently trying to sell my car, trailer, tools, spares,.... everything as a package and I have it listed for $30k. The cheapest you could get into a basically stock rally car setup would be about $10k. Of course if you really skimp you might be able to get a little cheaper but you could also easily spend 10 to 20 times this amount like many of my competitors do.
@@RacerDave thank you very much. Your explanation helped me.it was more costly than i thougt. Do you think track races cheaper to begin with? For beginner race car and track costs
@@espa9284 I assume you mean road course racing and you can definitely find a way to race for less money on a road course. For one there will be less maintenance and repairs between races.
Interesting you need a turbo tho 👍🏼
I wish but that's not in the cards for me unfortunately.
@@RacerDave are you running a 2.0 or 2.5
2.5L
@@RacerDave 👌🏼
confuse.. buy or not buy perrin crack pulley for my ej20? lol
Haha, that’s up to you. If the changes give you enough benefit to out weigh the potential drawbacks in your mind then get it. If not then don’t. I personally went with a fluid damper but I know several racers that went full light weight.
I have a camry and people say it's internally balanced. So there should be no problem. Is that bs?
I know nothing about Camrys but there is a difference between balancing a rotating assembly and having harmonic damping. Balancing is like balancing a wheel where you add or remove weight so the rotating assembly spins smoothly. Harmonic dampers are trying to remove vibrations induced by ignition and piston reciprocation at certain rpms. How Toyota deals with these two issues is a mystery to me but I recommend making sure you figure that out for sure before making a decision. Good luck and let me know what you learn!
I know nothing about Camrys but there is a difference between balancing a rotating assembly and having harmonic damping. Balancing is like balancing a wheel where you add or remove weight so the rotating assembly spins smoothly. Harmonic dampers are trying to remove vibrations induced by ignition and piston reciprocation at certain rpms. How Toyota deals with these two issues is a mystery to me but I recommend making sure you figure that out for sure before making a decision. Good luck and let me know what you learn!
@@RacerDave I will likely never get to meet the engineers of this brand new engine, so I think I'll play it safe and keep it off my car, unfortunately.
So I know with 2.2l 3rd gen camry they have balance shafts inside
What year is your Camry and what engine do you have ?
Will lwflywheels harm a subaru stock power?
I talk all about this in the video but bottom line: if you want the most reliable engine my recommendation is to stick with the stock harmonic balancer.
Not tue crank pulley, just an aftermarket lwflywheel what bad will a flywheel do?
@@coltonobriant6307 Oh I'm sorry, I misread that. Flywheels don't have any effects on harmonic damping so it won't hurt your engine. When you get too light it can cause the engine to stall out or chatter, especially when the A/C is on, which probably isn't good for it. The good thing about flywheels is the performance gain per pound lost is a lot more significant than the pulley.
Nothing like a green pixelated screen for entertainment
??? I’m not sure what you’re saying here but it sounds like maybe you’re having some connectivity issues on your end? There is nothing that’s all green or pixelated in this video. Maybe try a location with better internet connection or just restarting your browser? Sorry you’re having troubles. Good luck!
Hey! Do lightweight flywheels cause engine damage?
Good question. Most flywheels I'm aware of aren't used to balance out an engine or damp out any harmonics. If this is the case for your engine then they won't damage your engine in the way a light weight pulley can and are generally considered safe. Usually a lightweight flywheel mostly affects drivability. With that being said the lighter the flywheel the less inertia it has which is great for performance but the more prone it can be to engine and driveline chatter, especially at lower rpms. This happens when the engine power is transitioning between driving the wheels and being driven by the wheels. I'm no expert on this particular subject but I've never heard of this damaging an engine but I also have to imagine that at some level, even if it's really tiny, it has to be worse for the engine than almost no chatter with a heavy flywheel.
@@RacerDave what an awesome response thank you so much!