To be fair, I think part of the early game fugue is that the devs expect you, the viewer, to have the context of the culture that shaped nine sols. Fangshi, Kunlun, and Penglai are all terms lifted from real world Chinese folk mythology and Taoism, and even things that don't really need explaining like the major characters' names are also taken from real world mythology. A player with the same cultural insight as RCG would have more foresight as to what these words mean than a player that doesn't have that. Anyways, hugely underrated video
This sounds true as well, but I still think it's really impressive how the game slowly unravels its setting in a way that is completely comprehensible to someone unfamiliar with the material it's being based on (like myself). I also think it's good storytelling that the game doesn't need to rely on supplemental material to be understood.
@@AurumAlex64 brother, this video is wonderfully written and incredibly underrated. I'm really glad to have found it! God bless ya and Jesus loves ya!
I mean, the nine Sol’s in the original lore was literally nine fricking glowing sun so dunno the cultural context will give you a lotta help there. I think the characters here, though borrowing some names and concept from folklores, are very much largely standalone characters.
I mean, the tianhuo virus immediately jumps out as extremely dangerous because how else did it earn the name of “heavenly fire.” It isn’t just some common cold that’s for sure. That said, tianhuo is mentioned in detail only when meeting yanlao (who’s name is a homophone for extend age lmao) and it’s in a way that implies that yanlao is one of the few people infected by it, or that tianhuo only majorly affects old people, and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing.
I remember devs talking in the interview "players can miss every other messages in the game, but they need to understand the relationship between yi and heng", and I think that is really a fantastic choice
One of the themes throughout the game that resonates with me personally is Yi coming to terms with the wrongs he's committed. This entire project was his idea, and he has to go through each area to see these atrocities firsthand, juxtaposed by the welcoming nature of his home in the Pavillion. I believe the moments in which he finally figures it all out and forgives himself are near the final hour of the game, when he decides to save the race he originally insisted on harvesting. I believe that's the reason his theme plays in the last phase of the final boss, personally, because he had finally understood, and forgiven himself. It's absolutely brilliant. One day I hope to forgive myself for the wrongs I've committed too.
This is a really great video essay. I found it quite frustrating seeing other youtubers completely brush over the story of NS. I started playing NS for the combat mechanics but ended up adoring the game for its storytelling, so thank you for appreciating what a masterpiece of a story this is.
nine sols has become one of my favourite games just because of the story alone i absolutely love the gameplay as well (even with certain flaws it has) but the story is just perfect i genuinly cried at the ending sequence and listening to the credits song still gives me the shivers i find it really sad how the devs were harassed so much over this game just for expressing taiwanese culture and i think the game is way too underrated but i do hope the devs can make more masterpieces like this in the future
Oh, I didn't know about the harassment. I know they got into some hot water with Devotion, but it's sad to see the hostility continue on. RCG makes really wonderful games.
I just got the true ending 2 days ago, and the little cutscene of Yi giving Shuanshuan his mystic nymph made me cry. The rest of the true ending did honestly. My personal game of the year unless silksong or a bloodborne sequel release.
Me when renowned youtuber AurumAlex makes a video on a game I am currently playing through and as such am barred from watching to avoid any potential spoilers
Yeah, I figured that was going to be a lot of people who saw this video. Especially since the console version is coming out at the end of the month. But it'll be here to watch later, at least.
Back to back videos on my favorite games ever i'm popping off rn Nine Sols is such an incredibly meaningful game to me, I see a lot of my younger self in the younger Yi. It's very relatable as someone who intended to go into computer science from a very young age, move to california work at big tech, all that jazz. until as i got older i got to see tech companies actively destroy the fabric of society for the sake of profit, i think at that point the parallels are pretty clear. It's rare for a character of Yi's archetype to be handled with the amount of care and nuance that he is. Honestly it's very rare to see a game with something to say, plenty of confidence in its delivery, and the competency to back it up in general. For example, i have no doubt making it so you can only teleport to and from the pavillion was an unpopular decision in testing, and even less that it was more annoying to program than just letting you teleport between any 2 nodes. But they believed the events that take place there were compelling enough to justify leading the player back there so often, and I think they were right. The choice to make a metroidvania that is so dialogue heavy itself has been met with hesitation from a lot of people, judging by a lot of steam reviews, as the Super Metroid doctrine of Show Don't Tell is baked into much of the genre's identity. Nine Sols meets this with the understanding that if you have something so nuanced and complex to say, showing sometimes involves a lotta words, and it seems most people come around to it. I guess I dont really have a specific point to make in this comment, I just felt compelled to gush on a great video essay on one of my favorite games (i will second other commenter asking for a discord btw. I think that sounds like a great time)
I've been excited for this video all week!!! This is great! I definitely agree with your assessment of the characters. I think one of the strongest things a story can do to make a character feel real is to have them be just a bit inconsistent. As in, doing things that exist outside the purview of whatever trope or theme they are meant to convey. With Yi, I'd say it's very much so in how he's genuinely a really friendly and compassionate person. It starts with him letting Shuanshuan and Shennong live in the pavillion, which one could dismiss as there not being much reason for him to object. But it isn't! When we play the game, we find those items and want to bring them back and see what the characters have to say about them. Which mirror's Yi's own thought. Hey, a VR headset. I bet Shuanshuan will like this. Oh, Kuafu's tool. Maybe Shuanshuan will want to make something with this. There's no logical justification he tries to make up for doing this, he just does it, because he just wants to do it. Whereas another story might have this logic character come up with some logic reason for why this is a logic thing, he just does nice and thoughtful things for the other characters! It's fitting that it's through that understated compassion that the true ending is unlocked. And this is true in how he treats the other characters, too. He makes sure that Kuafu isn't against him, but then forgives him pretty quickly. He even teases him, and encourages Shuanshuan to befriend him. The player will often buy things like jades from Chiyou that they're not necessarily interested in using. Chiyou points this out himself, that Yi is buying things he doesn't need, and that he appreciates the help. The game is directly rewarding player curiosity and investment with more characterization, but also is contextualized as something that Yi is choosing to do as well! To help Chiyou! When talking to Lady Ethereal, he makes it very clear that he does not want to fight, and is sympathetic to her plight. Of course, that's likely partially out of a sense of shared guilt, but also, he didn't have to take the time to talk to her after winning, but he did. (The Lady Ethereal part of the game is immaculate, as far as I'm concerned). One line that really sticks with me is his line while drinking with Shennong, near the end of the game. "Maybe there's a reason faith can't be replaced." It's interesting to see just how openly he's willing to consider that, even if drunk. It's like he's taking the value of emotions, and turning it into its own kind of logic he can deconstruct and understand. In general, he's a lot more mellow than when he was a kid. In the flashbacks, that's when he'll talk about how only function matters, only logic matters, that's when he's that trope of an undeveloped logic character. But by the time we play as him, he's matured! He's nice to characters without real ulterior motive. He tells stories to Shuanshuan. He still decries lies and superstition, but also, he actively fosters Shuanshuan's exploration of the small joys of Solarian culture. In fact, the times he goes all "reason and logic" on people is as a form of pushback. I think he's as drastic as he is as a kid because he's constantly having to push back against his parents. He admits that Shennong's recipe is good. It's only when Shennong won't tell him the recipe that he brings up that it's just chemistry. Reason is a tool against ignorance, but if a character isn't fostering an ignorant perspective, he's a lot more Normal in how he talks about things. I don't know how much sense this all made. But i really do like Yi, and I really really like this game, and it was really awesome to see this analysis! I enjoyed it a lot, and will definitely be rewatching this! Your videos are a treasure! (Side bar, but do you have a Discord server or anything like that? I love hearing how you talk about this stuff and if you have a community, would want to join :) )
Thank you! Agree with your perspective on Yi. I came into Nine Sols expecting a fun metroidvania, but I got a lot more than that, and he is a big reason why. As for a Discord, I don't have anything like that yet, but it's something I'm considering. Can't say anything definite right now, though!
Thanks for covering this aspect of hte game, the story of this game feels a bit underappreciated since in metroidvanias people really expect only ininterrupted gameplay, but for someone like me that started their adult life as a very rationalistic person and changed over time it was very cathartic seeing the character of Yi, especially because it was handheld very well, and I think it works very well in context of eastern philosphy/
Very good video. I loved this game and you espoused upon themes that were on the edges of my mind but I couldn't bring to words while playing through it. Your comments about what makes a game "mature" resonated with me the most. I honestly didn't know what I was getting in to with this game when I picked it up, I was expecting a lighthearted game mainly from my impressions of the artstyle alone. The first confrontation with Jiquan into the torture scene almost made me stop playing because of how dismayed I got, and the boss fight afterwards in the prison was even worse. In spite of this, I kept playing because I was so invested, and I'm glad I did. I felt that the imagery was serving the story in a meaningful way that I appreciated as much as I feared.
This video is immaculately put, you explain all of these themes in a way that I really haven't been able to articulate. Although I'm very much focused on the gameplay aspects of the game, the story and just the way the characters are written kept me playing past some of the (very few) BS sections of the game (I'm looking at you, hallway arena). This video has just helped me appreciate it even more, I can't stop saying how fantastic your work is here.
Yeeeeesss! Nine Sols content!!! And the one that is about it's story and themes!!! Such a shame that a lot of players have found the dialogue to be distracting and consider it "a flaw". To me this game is one of the best out there, and, quite ironically, I've played it during the time of being extremely anxious about my mortality.
And just when you upload this video, the game gets updated and now supports RTX HDR. Great timing! Love it, will definitely play this at some point. So many games, so little time :D
I hadn't tried this game yet. Despite metroidvanias being a favorite genre of mine, something about the setting or presentation seemed off-putting to me in the trailers. But your analysis of the game's story and themes has made me much more interested in giving it a shot.
this is awesome!! thank you so much!! i am reminded a lot of hit indie videogame Rain World (2017), which is very similar in aesthetics but explains way less of its lore and, honestly i am really tempted to try this game when i'm doing better, this Actually Has Meaning, unlike my current favorite
Glad to see someone exploring philosophical themes of nine sols. Good job ✨ Also that lady ethereal fight just sucked me dry to a point when I finally defeated her, I didn't feel anything. I was just so happy it was over. There was no frustration, no relief, no empathy, absolutely nothing. From my experience that's what pure intellectualism feels like -- a sterile scalpel. I was so glad watching main protagonist grow and change his viewpoints and open up, rarely you see such alive characters in games or any media. Have you played Grime? 😁
Thank you! Yeah, I struggled a lot with the Lady Ethereal fight as well (though not nearly as much as Eigong, haha). As for Grime, I have not played it, or even heard about it until this comment, but it would be interesting to check out at some point! Always in the mood for new metroidvanias.
Damn I thought they were going crazy with six black heavens guns but arcsys has genuinely gone mad, I thought we were just going to max out at order sol and sol badguy
One thing about philosophy and forms of spirituality is that it makes the simple complicated and may even contradict that. Relativism it can be summed up as given right and wrong, but can never hold up to the realities of life. I believe it was Nietzsche that agreed with this thinking until WWII occurred. He had to say evil did indeed exist. There is right and wrong and even the most adherent will contradict themselves. I like that it did examine spiritualism and science as belief systems in their extremes, yet comes to say one's truth is sufficient even though Yi only traded an ignorant outlook for which I'm not sure if was selfish or selfless. His choice was to save others, but it was more made for himself and that was the result of it. I think it was said in the video living for one self is pointless, but I wonder why it was such a hard conclusion to come to as selflessness has no downside. Well, other than personal sacrifice without reward. If no answer was come to in the end, I think the apemen will make the same mistake in the future if they can't say what was right and wrong about the Solarians.
To be fair, I think part of the early game fugue is that the devs expect you, the viewer, to have the context of the culture that shaped nine sols. Fangshi, Kunlun, and Penglai are all terms lifted from real world Chinese folk mythology and Taoism, and even things that don't really need explaining like the major characters' names are also taken from real world mythology. A player with the same cultural insight as RCG would have more foresight as to what these words mean than a player that doesn't have that. Anyways, hugely underrated video
This sounds true as well, but I still think it's really impressive how the game slowly unravels its setting in a way that is completely comprehensible to someone unfamiliar with the material it's being based on (like myself). I also think it's good storytelling that the game doesn't need to rely on supplemental material to be understood.
@AurumAlex64 Yeah! It's a testament to RCGs storytelling ability
@@AurumAlex64 brother, this video is wonderfully written and incredibly underrated. I'm really glad to have found it! God bless ya and Jesus loves ya!
I mean, the nine Sol’s in the original lore was literally nine fricking glowing sun so dunno the cultural context will give you a lotta help there. I think the characters here, though borrowing some names and concept from folklores, are very much largely standalone characters.
I mean, the tianhuo virus immediately jumps out as extremely dangerous because how else did it earn the name of “heavenly fire.” It isn’t just some common cold that’s for sure. That said, tianhuo is mentioned in detail only when meeting yanlao (who’s name is a homophone for extend age lmao) and it’s in a way that implies that yanlao is one of the few people infected by it, or that tianhuo only majorly affects old people, and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing.
I remember devs talking in the interview "players can miss every other messages in the game, but they need to understand the relationship between yi and heng", and I think that is really a fantastic choice
One of the themes throughout the game that resonates with me personally is Yi coming to terms with the wrongs he's committed. This entire project was his idea, and he has to go through each area to see these atrocities firsthand, juxtaposed by the welcoming nature of his home in the Pavillion. I believe the moments in which he finally figures it all out and forgives himself are near the final hour of the game, when he decides to save the race he originally insisted on harvesting. I believe that's the reason his theme plays in the last phase of the final boss, personally, because he had finally understood, and forgiven himself. It's absolutely brilliant. One day I hope to forgive myself for the wrongs I've committed too.
This is a really great video essay. I found it quite frustrating seeing other youtubers completely brush over the story of NS. I started playing NS for the combat mechanics but ended up adoring the game for its storytelling, so thank you for appreciating what a masterpiece of a story this is.
I love this game so much, incredibly ambitious for the studio, and unabashedly candid about storytelling and cultural influence
nine sols has become one of my favourite games just because of the story alone
i absolutely love the gameplay as well (even with certain flaws it has) but the story is just perfect
i genuinly cried at the ending sequence and listening to the credits song still gives me the shivers
i find it really sad how the devs were harassed so much over this game just for expressing taiwanese culture and i think the game is way too underrated
but i do hope the devs can make more masterpieces like this in the future
Oh, I didn't know about the harassment. I know they got into some hot water with Devotion, but it's sad to see the hostility continue on. RCG makes really wonderful games.
@AurumAlex64 yeah i think it was mostly only directly after the release but a lot of reviews after release were very negative sadly
I just got the true ending 2 days ago, and the little cutscene of Yi giving Shuanshuan his mystic nymph made me cry. The rest of the true ending did honestly. My personal game of the year unless silksong or a bloodborne sequel release.
Agreed, my GOTY as well. I'm pretending Silksong doesn't exist until it comes out at this point haha
@ same here. I’m giving them as long as they need to release what they believe is their best work
Me when renowned youtuber AurumAlex makes a video on a game I am currently playing through and as such am barred from watching to avoid any potential spoilers
Yeah, I figured that was going to be a lot of people who saw this video. Especially since the console version is coming out at the end of the month. But it'll be here to watch later, at least.
Back to back videos on my favorite games ever i'm popping off rn
Nine Sols is such an incredibly meaningful game to me, I see a lot of my younger self in the younger Yi. It's very relatable as someone who intended to go into computer science from a very young age, move to california work at big tech, all that jazz. until as i got older i got to see tech companies actively destroy the fabric of society for the sake of profit, i think at that point the parallels are pretty clear. It's rare for a character of Yi's archetype to be handled with the amount of care and nuance that he is. Honestly it's very rare to see a game with something to say, plenty of confidence in its delivery, and the competency to back it up in general. For example, i have no doubt making it so you can only teleport to and from the pavillion was an unpopular decision in testing, and even less that it was more annoying to program than just letting you teleport between any 2 nodes. But they believed the events that take place there were compelling enough to justify leading the player back there so often, and I think they were right. The choice to make a metroidvania that is so dialogue heavy itself has been met with hesitation from a lot of people, judging by a lot of steam reviews, as the Super Metroid doctrine of Show Don't Tell is baked into much of the genre's identity. Nine Sols meets this with the understanding that if you have something so nuanced and complex to say, showing sometimes involves a lotta words, and it seems most people come around to it. I guess I dont really have a specific point to make in this comment, I just felt compelled to gush on a great video essay on one of my favorite games
(i will second other commenter asking for a discord btw. I think that sounds like a great time)
100% agree. I'm glad Red Candle Games took a chance with the story; it paid off massively.
I've been excited for this video all week!!! This is great!
I definitely agree with your assessment of the characters. I think one of the strongest things a story can do to make a character feel real is to have them be just a bit inconsistent. As in, doing things that exist outside the purview of whatever trope or theme they are meant to convey. With Yi, I'd say it's very much so in how he's genuinely a really friendly and compassionate person. It starts with him letting Shuanshuan and Shennong live in the pavillion, which one could dismiss as there not being much reason for him to object.
But it isn't! When we play the game, we find those items and want to bring them back and see what the characters have to say about them. Which mirror's Yi's own thought. Hey, a VR headset. I bet Shuanshuan will like this. Oh, Kuafu's tool. Maybe Shuanshuan will want to make something with this. There's no logical justification he tries to make up for doing this, he just does it, because he just wants to do it. Whereas another story might have this logic character come up with some logic reason for why this is a logic thing, he just does nice and thoughtful things for the other characters! It's fitting that it's through that understated compassion that the true ending is unlocked.
And this is true in how he treats the other characters, too. He makes sure that Kuafu isn't against him, but then forgives him pretty quickly. He even teases him, and encourages Shuanshuan to befriend him. The player will often buy things like jades from Chiyou that they're not necessarily interested in using. Chiyou points this out himself, that Yi is buying things he doesn't need, and that he appreciates the help. The game is directly rewarding player curiosity and investment with more characterization, but also is contextualized as something that Yi is choosing to do as well! To help Chiyou! When talking to Lady Ethereal, he makes it very clear that he does not want to fight, and is sympathetic to her plight. Of course, that's likely partially out of a sense of shared guilt, but also, he didn't have to take the time to talk to her after winning, but he did. (The Lady Ethereal part of the game is immaculate, as far as I'm concerned).
One line that really sticks with me is his line while drinking with Shennong, near the end of the game. "Maybe there's a reason faith can't be replaced." It's interesting to see just how openly he's willing to consider that, even if drunk. It's like he's taking the value of emotions, and turning it into its own kind of logic he can deconstruct and understand.
In general, he's a lot more mellow than when he was a kid. In the flashbacks, that's when he'll talk about how only function matters, only logic matters, that's when he's that trope of an undeveloped logic character. But by the time we play as him, he's matured! He's nice to characters without real ulterior motive. He tells stories to Shuanshuan. He still decries lies and superstition, but also, he actively fosters Shuanshuan's exploration of the small joys of Solarian culture.
In fact, the times he goes all "reason and logic" on people is as a form of pushback. I think he's as drastic as he is as a kid because he's constantly having to push back against his parents. He admits that Shennong's recipe is good. It's only when Shennong won't tell him the recipe that he brings up that it's just chemistry. Reason is a tool against ignorance, but if a character isn't fostering an ignorant perspective, he's a lot more Normal in how he talks about things.
I don't know how much sense this all made. But i really do like Yi, and I really really like this game, and it was really awesome to see this analysis! I enjoyed it a lot, and will definitely be rewatching this! Your videos are a treasure!
(Side bar, but do you have a Discord server or anything like that? I love hearing how you talk about this stuff and if you have a community, would want to join :) )
Thank you! Agree with your perspective on Yi. I came into Nine Sols expecting a fun metroidvania, but I got a lot more than that, and he is a big reason why.
As for a Discord, I don't have anything like that yet, but it's something I'm considering. Can't say anything definite right now, though!
Thanks for covering this aspect of hte game, the story of this game feels a bit underappreciated since in metroidvanias people really expect only ininterrupted gameplay, but for someone like me that started their adult life as a very rationalistic person and changed over time it was very cathartic seeing the character of Yi, especially because it was handheld very well, and I think it works very well in context of eastern philosphy/
Very good video. I loved this game and you espoused upon themes that were on the edges of my mind but I couldn't bring to words while playing through it. Your comments about what makes a game "mature" resonated with me the most. I honestly didn't know what I was getting in to with this game when I picked it up, I was expecting a lighthearted game mainly from my impressions of the artstyle alone. The first confrontation with Jiquan into the torture scene almost made me stop playing because of how dismayed I got, and the boss fight afterwards in the prison was even worse. In spite of this, I kept playing because I was so invested, and I'm glad I did. I felt that the imagery was serving the story in a meaningful way that I appreciated as much as I feared.
This video is immaculately put, you explain all of these themes in a way that I really haven't been able to articulate.
Although I'm very much focused on the gameplay aspects of the game, the story and just the way the characters are written kept me playing past some of the (very few) BS sections of the game (I'm looking at you, hallway arena). This video has just helped me appreciate it even more, I can't stop saying how fantastic your work is here.
omg it's sherplung
Great Video! I love hearing more about this game from different perspectives, and you did a very good job
Yeeeeesss! Nine Sols content!!! And the one that is about it's story and themes!!!
Such a shame that a lot of players have found the dialogue to be distracting and consider it "a flaw".
To me this game is one of the best out there, and, quite ironically, I've played it during the time of being extremely anxious about my mortality.
And just when you upload this video, the game gets updated and now supports RTX HDR. Great timing!
Love it, will definitely play this at some point. So many games, so little time :D
Yeah, I've noticed this game gets QoL updates pretty frequently. It's nice to see.
@@AurumAlex64 They added new effects to Lady Ethereal's Soulscape, too, which was surprising to me considering that's like, actual content.
Great analysis of the themes. I cant praise this game enough.
Goddammit I’m gonna play the game eventually just gimme a bit. I’ll get back here eventually.
just like the true ending, this video made me cry. no shit.
anyways, all in all amazing video, I'm glad you enjoyed my favorite game of all time! :3
I hadn't tried this game yet. Despite metroidvanias being a favorite genre of mine, something about the setting or presentation seemed off-putting to me in the trailers. But your analysis of the game's story and themes has made me much more interested in giving it a shot.
Alright, I'm sold. Buying the game
After 100hrs, 100% achivement on Steam, its worth it
excellent video, superbly underrated video and game !!!
this is awesome!! thank you so much!!
i am reminded a lot of hit indie videogame Rain World (2017), which is very similar in aesthetics but explains way less of its lore
and, honestly i am really tempted to try this game when i'm doing better, this Actually Has Meaning, unlike my current favorite
Glad to see someone exploring philosophical themes of nine sols. Good job ✨
Also that lady ethereal fight just sucked me dry to a point when I finally defeated her, I didn't feel anything. I was just so happy it was over. There was no frustration, no relief, no empathy, absolutely nothing. From my experience that's what pure intellectualism feels like -- a sterile scalpel. I was so glad watching main protagonist grow and change his viewpoints and open up, rarely you see such alive characters in games or any media.
Have you played Grime? 😁
Thank you! Yeah, I struggled a lot with the Lady Ethereal fight as well (though not nearly as much as Eigong, haha). As for Grime, I have not played it, or even heard about it until this comment, but it would be interesting to check out at some point! Always in the mood for new metroidvanias.
@ can't recommend it enough! It's gorgeous, parry based difficult combat, and the story is incredibly powerful
Damn I thought they were going crazy with six black heavens guns but arcsys has genuinely gone mad, I thought we were just going to max out at order sol and sol badguy
17:20 And... OH IT'S PISS!!!
Cool video
Nine Sols? What happened to the 10th one? (That was an awful joke, I’ll see myself out)
Well, actually, Yi *is* the tenth Sol, but he was kinda... 'kicked out', we'll say.
One thing about philosophy and forms of spirituality is that it makes the simple complicated and may even contradict that. Relativism it can be summed up as given right and wrong, but can never hold up to the realities of life. I believe it was Nietzsche that agreed with this thinking until WWII occurred. He had to say evil did indeed exist. There is right and wrong and even the most adherent will contradict themselves. I like that it did examine spiritualism and science as belief systems in their extremes, yet comes to say one's truth is sufficient even though Yi only traded an ignorant outlook for which I'm not sure if was selfish or selfless. His choice was to save others, but it was more made for himself and that was the result of it. I think it was said in the video living for one self is pointless, but I wonder why it was such a hard conclusion to come to as selflessness has no downside. Well, other than personal sacrifice without reward. If no answer was come to in the end, I think the apemen will make the same mistake in the future if they can't say what was right and wrong about the Solarians.