Saxon Sandstone: Epitome of Traditional Climbing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ย. 2019
- Recently I had the honor to try some Saxon Trad Climbing on their infamous Sandstone. Of course it was very epic. Here's a bit of documentation.
Saxon Sandstone: Epitome of Traditional Climbing by Mani the Monkey
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Funny story: The first time ever climbing outside, I went with friends of mine who had lots of experience in the Austrian Alps, smaller mountains in Bavaria and also the Elbe Sandstone, of course they showed me lots of stuff beforehand, some knots, how the harness fits right and so on.. also belaying from the ground (just for fun of course, they would've never put their lives in my hands) Anyway I digress, just wanted to explain I felt really save with them and we had lots of fun. A couple of weeks later, I stumble over a reddit post about some of the pioneers of climbing in the Elbe Sandstone Mountains, and the general consensus in the thread is that people climbing these mountains were and still are totally crazy with how they are securing themselves with knots in cracks etc. Not gonna lie, I freaked out a little bit, but I was also proud of myself, losing my climbing-in-nature virginity in such a special environment.
Instablaster
This feels more like a documentary than just a climbing video. Enjoyed a lot! Didn't know about this kind of climbing. Thank you for sharing!
In my opinion one of the best Videos about climbing Here in the Elbsandsteingebirge that i have seen so far. Climbing here is very special and truly unique. Love it!
Really interesting video, especially the monolog you started around 15:30, in which you talk about the concept of certain rock forming certain climbing styles, was very inspiring to think about! Thanks for the great content!
Every time I hear how dangerous climbing is in Saxony. I remember the main motto I was taught, "Climb so that I don't fall. "
It was no fun falling in when you didn't have a saddle and were only roped in.
It was and is climbing here all about moral strength.
I honestly don't like magnesium on sandstone. You have to look for that route in the rock and try different holds, not that it's marked with bou paint.
Great respect for all climbers who follow tradition.
Thank you Mani for this wonderful video. Its has really opened my eyes to the different types of climbing available.
The "building sites" are hilarious. You're not allowed to use friends or cams, but if you have a friend named Cam...
You called?
Very nice film! In Saxon Swiss climbing is not climbing like climbing in modern sport style, it's rather climbing like alpinism style where it's not allowed to make a mistake or a fall, because it could be the end of your life. But that's the ultimate experience what it makes so unique to climb there, to feel your are alive and to be in the moment, be part of the nature, and face the nature and especially the rocks with respect. It's a huge treasure to have this little pace of nature right around the corner here in Germany. And of course we the Saxon climber are proud the be the inventors of free rock climbing, that's the reason for all their special rules too.
seems fun and really safe
Nice video! I really like documentary and informative character. Thank you for sharing your experience. This year I was in Adršpach and first time climb in sandstone, but for sure not last! There is something deeper and artistic in that way of climbing.
Your vids are really informative and have some good climbs in them! Glad I subbed
Really beautiful video!
Nice video, just one small objection: I would avoid doing an "Ankerstich" around an hour glass. That will greatly amplify the forces on the rock, since it will tighten and put all the force on the weakest spot. Either put a sling around it and clip both ends or do the other described knot, by rethreading it. Emergencies and "panic" slings are a different story, of course :)
This.
That still adds to erosion since it moves side to side. If you do it use a separate carabineer that can move along the sling or preferably use a knot
Excellent content, glad I'm still subscribed to you!
so cool to see all types of climbing around the world xD
Super hilfreiches Video!
Such a bizzare style of climbing. Interesting for sure...
Schön das du mal ein Video über meine Heimatkletterei machst :) schönes Video übrigens
No Ankerstich for Hourglasses!
Man darf bei Sanduhren auf keinen Fall einen Ankerstich machen. Der zieht sich auf die engste Stelle zusammen und belastet die Sanduhr somit viel mehr!
I have fallen on knoted slings and it is not something I want to do repeatedly and do intentionally., However a knoted sling can hold a fall if it is properly placed. I do not think that climbing in our area is inherently more dangerous than e.g. British trad or alpine climbing. Each of these styles of climbing has its own unique history, rules and dangers. After all that is what makes the sport so interesting: If you go to a new area there is always new stuff you can learn from the locals.
One also has to consider that knots usually aren't meant to catch your fall. They are meant to break your fall. You'd put in multiple in quick succession to slow down your fall to the point where even a very weak know that might only hold 1kN will finally catch you.
That said, a good knot, for example, with a figure eight tied in the way that the load stand is on the outside and the knot gets pulled to be wider, this making it hold even better upon loading, will easily hold 4kN which is more than any climbing fall with a dynamic rope will generate. Falling into such a knot also means leaving that know there as you'll usually not be able to ever remove it again.
Personally, I would not climb that style. I appreciate metal gear's safety too much.
That said, I also would not disrespect the local tradition and ethics because I recognize that chalk and metal gear would damage the rock and ruin it for future generations. I'm not that selfish.
Instead, I'll climb in one of the thousands of trad areas that permit metal gear, or nicely bolted sport crags around the world and simply admire the guts and tenacity that "Saxon Style" climbers have.
that´s where I learned climbing.
I love that the ethics in these sandstone areas value the preservation of the rock and boldness in the climbers...values that are sorely missing in so many other climbing areas around the world!
Spannend.. danke für die infos..
Grüsse aus der schweiz
We have an outcrop of similar rock in the UK around the town of Tunbridge wells, not as high but only top roping and high balls are allowed. Very interesting to climb when compared to the northern gritstone we have also
in theory would you be allowed to climb with "soft protection" like this place where mani is, do you think? i have always wondered if there are more places in the world with this "soft-protection-only situation
@@benja_mint unfortunately not, the guide book specifically mentions that soft protection is not allowed. The routes are not particularly long so highballing on a pad is the best bet
A rare word here: "Take!"
Tried this once, it's very creepy climbing 😁
Top Video
i don't think i took a single breath between 15:27 and 24:13
I'm immediately going to go out and try and do this with no experience at all... except for this video
I hope this is a joke
23:25 cat in the background......too funny
it's a baby !
please. use hi pass filter for audio. my speakers trying to jumpdown from shelves 😀
Mehr davon ! 😎
there is one more reason why people climb like that in Czch and Poland in eighties fancy protection wasn`t simply avilable and these days it is still to expensive for some people, anyway this mainly applies for sandstone.
Voll schönes Video!!!
Aber bei 06:23 sagt Ihr was von Knotenschlingen seien Ringwertig.
"HowNotTo" hat ein Video zu Knotenschlinge wo sie die Testen und deren Ergebnisse sind das die GANZ FERN von Ringwertig sind.
Also ich glaube so bis zu 3-4 kn halten die.
Und so Vostiegstürze gehen ja gerne mal bis 7kn auf die Umlenkung.
Also nicht das ich jetzt voll Bescheid wüsste aber och finde das sollte man schon beachten das so Knoten halt echt oft nicht viel halten.
Geiles Videos. Mit Ang (Micha) hast dir einen guten Führer dort raus gesucht bzw. Jemand der sich mit den Gebieten auskennt. War letzten auch mit Ihm an der Wand. Grüße
Erfrischend musiklos und informativ. Tolles video
You know!
Kevlar hält übrigens nicht besser als Polyamid - Zugbelastung schon, aber der Knoten (Knick) versaut den Vorteil dann wieder.
I always hear stories about how crazy people think we Saxons are for our climbing style. Having grown up with it, it is completely normal for me to have one or two rings in a route of 20m length. Every time I'm doing sports-climbing and am with other sports climbers they ask why I skip every second ring; my answer always is: "Well, I just clipped the one two meters below me. I'd rather not waste my strength on putting in another exe and concentrate on just doing the five moves to the next ring."
This behavior kind of is influenced by me only climbing easy routes though. V and VI with a VIIa being the hardest I've ever ascended (should be 5 and 6 UIAA). The VIIa started with a crack like you showed at 4:25. It was really nice climbing that - though my arms took about two weeks to heal the bruises. But that's what traditional climbing is all about for me. Use everything you've got, and that usually is very little apart from yourself and whatever you brought to the Gipfel.
"knot is almost like a ring" :D no its not, you really dont want to fall to knot. it depends, but chance to tear out of knot is very hight when you get heigher and heigher above your knot protection. I have climbed with couple of knots but never dare to fall to any....
Alex Honnold would love this.
There are some comments about gear/chalk down there. I'd like to explain it a little:
lets maybe just talk about the chalk-issue first:
1st: when you try to brush the chalk away, you will remove the chalk including the stone. After a couple of times brushing, both, the chalk and the hold might be gone.
2nd: Magnesia will close the pores of the surface and stay like forever (exccpt you brush - see point 1). Thus, it will accumulate water on the surface of the stone and the hard/strong mineral/oxide-surface is not going to build up. This accelerates the erosion of the sandstone by a lot! Especially the (in comparison to e.g fontainebleau weak sandstone of the saxony-area)
I am with you, that some part of the traditionalism might be not fitting to the time anymore. But sometimes, there is also a good reason ;-). And if you wanna climb the routes in 10-20 years still: please don't use chalk!
Aye even in the states we have places like Red Rocks which has its own set of rules to prevent erosion of the rock in an effort to preserve the climbs.
As a Saxon I find our rules ridiculous.
It reminds me this video wich came up not so long ago : th-cam.com/video/SqOrqcjBWQk/w-d-xo.html
There are 3 videos actually. Maybe it's the same mountain wich continue in the Czech republic ?
Great video in any case !
Like? You know?
Commentary? You know?
Climbing? You know?
As much I enjoyed the documentary, as much I am shocked by the comments here. Such a ignorance, half of the American/English commentators willing to destroy nature, just because they are not willing to adapt to another climbing style as their own. The Earth is full of Climbing Walls, please just got somewhere else.
On a Side notice: @Mani: Did you visit Festung Königstein? Super interesting place 😊
You don't "destroy nature" by putting magnesium carbonate on your hands or throwing a cam in a crack that grinds off some sandstone once in a while. The sandstone doesn't care if it's got chalk on it, and people shouldn't care either. It's a widely observed phenomenon that Germans are always trying to impose genuinely benevolent sentiments through regulation, but more often than not they do it in strange and even unproductive ways. The more of a headache you make it to come climb and hike, the more you obsess over the 'purity' of the climbing involved, the less interested people will be in going to appreciate the nature you're trying to preserve for them. I'm not saying people should turn a blind eye to littering or other downright abusive behaviors, but certainly banning metal equipment is quite excessive.
@@JohnMaxGriffin John Griffin There are actually studies from our area in the forces created by metal protection vs. soft protection that show to simple facts: The friction of soft protection is way higher and the peak forces on the rock are way lower with soft protection. Since it is well known in the area that on a lot of routes it is common to break the rock if you are not super careful and there are documented cases of damage to the rock even by soft protection, metal protection would just not work as well as many people here try to believe. Just the friction of the rope alone creates visible grooves and popular routes have deep, visible foothold created by people climbing there and slowly grinding down the rock.
Risky climbing...so of course no helmets!
If sandstone breaks loose, no helmet is going to save you. We usually only wear helmets in areas of high risk of small borders coming down - usually with granite or extremely porous sandstone. Would it hurt to wear a helmet? No, absolutely not; tradition simply is too stubborn to die.
A ja deutsche
yew first comment
This looks quite an interesting form of climbing, but boring compared to sport i think. There's no flow, just thinking thinking all the time and hardly moving
I would not whip. I much rather climb without any rope rather than relying on false safety like this. You will hardly get within any form of real safety factor with these knots as the rock will rip them into pieces during a fall abd they will leave plastic everywhere. Just because you are jerking the knots doesen't mean they will hold a fall at all. This is just stupid.
Not allowing chalk or metal gear it’s and absurd policy.
@tryitout - Do you think it is absurd because it would make the climbing too hard and bold for you? If so, there are plenty of other areas around the world where every hold is coated in chalk, and the climbs are thoroughly bolted, even if trad protection is possible...so, go climb there and leave the few traditional areas to those who appreciate them!
John S listen, you idiot. Have you ever heard of rain? I climb at a lot of places that are climbed by tons of people and the chalk marks are washed away by rain. These ethics will be a thing of the past in another generation. Knots for protection and no chalk is the same as flat eartherism.
@@johns3106 it's a really good way to make climbing unnecessarily dangerous.
Cams and nuts are pretty reliable. This is an excellent way of discouraging people from climbing there.
It's a big FU to climbers.
@semmtexx There are lots of overhanging routes in arid areas that never get rained on...that’s why people have to scrub holds when climbing these routes. Besides, who wants to climb a route where all the holds are chalked and route finding is just a matter of “connect-the-dots? And, you are really showing your ignorance when you say these “rules” will be gone in 10 years... these traditions have been in place since at least the 1920’s...I don’t think they’re going to change anytime soon. If you don’t like the challenge this area offers, just stay away!...you don’t have to bring everything down to your narcissistic level!
@tryitout - It’s a big FU to climbers like you who lack the boldness and vision to climb in an area like this. If the sandstone ethics are too much for you, there are plenty of other areas to climb at.
I would climb here with gear, with chalk and two middle fingers for anyone who wants to say anything about it.
or...
now hear me out
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You could not do that
I'm guessing you don't have the nerve to:
1) do these climbs in the accepted local manner, nor to;
2) actually back up your big talk when called out by the locals
It just sounds like you're a loud-mouthed punk of questionable abilities who would be VERY scared to do these climbs as they are traditionally done!
Here’s the thing
This is a national park and those rules are in place to keep it preserved
You may think you can go there and do what you want but that’s not the case
if you want to climb with metal gear that’s fine just go to one of the *many* other places that lets you do that and leave these areas to those who understand why they should be preserved