You doing the most.. All you gotta do is Sidechain the kick & 808. Using soothe 2 is the easiest cuz you can dip the frequencies where your kick lives in your low end without dipping the whole low end.
@@Skyraemusic your understanding is very surface level, not that that’s wrong or anything but go ahead and do that if it’s easier for you… When you duck only low end frequencies from a sound without ducking the entire sound itself, you introduce more phase issues to whatever sound's low end frequencies are being ducked because... In order to duck ONLY frequencies in the low end region, the phase has to be shifted at that given crossing point. Which is why frequency focused ducking on a specific region isn’t really the move. And did you not watch the part where I showed how the attack & release time is very limited with soothe? There’s literally a whole section explaining where soothe is not the move, & how THAT’s doing too much and is redundant… Controlling the phase of your low end is VERY crucial which is why the first method is better than any side chain compression because unless you’re using an oscilloscope to dial in your side chain compression settings, You’re not going to accurately be able to control the peaks with simple compression settings via sidechain such as attack & release time, threshold, & ratio of the compression down to the very last cycle of the waveform 99% of the time, Because there's too many variables you have to get right making the first method in this video 1000x better than traditional sidechain compression WHICH is the main question/comment I received for this video "Can't you just use sidechain compression bro? You're literally overcomplicating it when sidechain compression does the same thing" Yes technically is does, but very poorly and limited at that for reasons I already provided. (i.e not being able to control whatever's being sidechain compressed down to the very last cycle to fully maximize the waveforms peak performance) But again, Go ahead and be my guest and do that if you want the two samples to add up or cancel out in some weird unfavorable way which again could affect the overall impact of your low end... Anyways do whatever you think is easiest for you, but the videos right here explaining everything. If it’s too much and you don’t want to do it this way that's fine, But I’m not gonna explain again why soothe or basic/traditional sidechain compression isn't the best when it’s literally right there in the video 😅
You can use the soothe sidechain and the clip gain together but the trick is to take the kick sc and slide it back a few sample 2-10 so that soothe is operating on a psuedo look ahead so that your pump lines up
I see that makes a little more sense I still haven’t tried that out which I’ll have to test but the way Jaycen mentioned it in the mix with the masters video he didn’t mention that at all unless I missed it, Plus he also mentioned that if you want more or less ducking you just adjust the depth but I don’t see much use of that because if it’s not ducking completely it’ll still have the ability to phase out or introduce constructive interference where the peaks start to shoot up again which is counter intuitive to the first clip gain automation technique And the thing is if you use side chains that have a cross over point it’ll still effect the sub in some way shape or form where the kick and sub will be out of phase which you can’t always control if the sub is playing different notes but for the downbeat or most impactful sections of your mix it is much quicker and easier to only use the clip gain automation really and if you get the envelope precise in that way you wouldn’t need the soothe, it’s a bit overkill from what I’ve tested so far I just gotta try out the look ahead you mentioned and report back to what I might discover doing that and if it’s even worth it or not but those are the little caveats I’ve discovered…
@@goobstersroom so on mix with the masters it’s part 3 of advanced mix techniques where he talks about the 2 samples ahead back then he was using c6 though I just personally carried that over into the soothe but I don’t have an oscilloscope plugin to tell visually but his main thing with it is instead of using a send or an aux it’s duplicating the track with all its processing on or I guess just commit it now there’s no time discrepancies between the trigger and the kick you hear then you introduce the sample delay
I rarely watch videos related to mixing cause im a bit lazy sometimes... But I have to admit it, I watched most of yours cause you have the way of saying things, you get to the point and also you show that you know your stuff. nice one
Been doing music stuff basically all my life and somehow this is the first time I’ve ever seen that psyscope thing and it looks awesome haha crazy how there is still software that slips thru the radar.
How is ducking the bass to open the throughput for the kick, not exactly what’s happening when you sidechain? Sidechaining in lieu would consume less ram.
Referring to technique #1, can’t you just use sidechain compression on the bass track ducking the kick instead of doing manual clip gain automation? Awesome video btw, thanks for sharing!
In my mind I don't see why you couldn't, sidechain compression is a standard technique. Although I would assume that by using clip gain instead, you could match the duration of the kick to an exact measurement whereas a compressor might have a little leeway due to attack/release time restrictions; not to mention the cpu load a compressor could contribute to when the lookahead function is engaged. A compressor could also impart some unwanted harmonics to the affected track depending on the type used.
Yes you can! I find using manual clip gain automation gives you more control though. For me personally it's easier to draw the envelope rather than tweaking the sidechain settings.
When you use the clip gain automation it's much easier to see the exact envelope you need to be ducked from the kick vs using a sidechain compressor. There is another plugin that does this really well that's an alternative but I'm going to go more in depth with that on a later video 🤫
Great tips, thanks a lot! For Soothe SC, you don't need to duplicate the tracks. You can send them to the sidechain using sends, which keeps your track list tidier and accounts for all the plugins on the channels without duplicating them, thus reducing CPU load. Glad you pointed out the delay of soothe on the sub-ducker with the kick sc, I've always felt like it's pumping a bit but have never checked on a waveform analyzer. Great stuff, keep doing your thing!
Yeah you could do that but the reason Jaycen does it like that in this way is to supposedly be able to move the waveform left or right to compensate for the pumping & to reset the signal of the clip gain automation on the beginning of the 808 transient to trigger the soothe properly. But still if you even try that then the release isn’t fast enough which is why just the soothe technique is still iffhy to me and is something I would only use for a last resort with multiple bass instruments firing off at the same time. But thank you for watching!
@@andiherzog I gotta thank the comments for that one cuz even myself I wasn’t too aware until they pointed it out haha 🔥 but there’s always something new to learn everyday!
This was why Poise was so intuïtive, like working with an mc, but without the workaround and faster results. Ideal for assembling sampled kicks with 808 etc 👊🏼
This is awesome bro! You broke this down so well. Have you tried the plugin called Duck? It does the same trick but its so much easier to dial in how much 808 you take out volume wise and how long you want your duck to last. You can also select a frequency range to duck. It's so versatile. I highly recommend it, especially to Cubase users, as Soothe cannot be sidechained in Cubase. Peace
Curious what you think the difference is between automating with clip-gain, versus automating a trim tool on bass at the end of the chain. I got these tips second hand, so had been doing it that way and seems to work. Lots of details in your vid I hadn't heard before with his techniques. Adding slope on the attack side is killer. Instant subscribe for me.
thanks for such a great video! just one suggestion as someone watching on my studio setup on my monitors - it would be great if you could set the volume of your speech between the videos a little low or increase the volume of your protools recorded audio and jaycens interviews since to hear the low end i have to crank up the volume and then suddenly when the video swithces to your commentary on the topic its too loud! again thanks for the informative videos!
For the first technique, just use a lfo tool triggered by the kick and adjust it................ it take 20 seconds and it's exactly the same result, you can even be more accurate with a scope
Yes, at 10:13 I alluded to this I just haven't made the video explaining that technique yet. This video was breaking down specifically how Jaycen Joshua does it but obviously there's a better more efficient and accurate way of pulling this off (that I prefer). But that just shows how educated you are on the subject which is a good thing! You're ahead of most people
Great video thanks for sharing it. For my ears, the music/mix examples could come up in the mix compared to your voice which seemed a lot louder in the video.
For my desktop I have CPU: Amd Ryzen 5950x GPU: AMD Radeon 6700xt RAM: 64gb SSD: 12 tb But to edit all of these videos I have a mobile setup I take with me everywhere to do all of my editing for this channel and it’s a laptop from a company called Kreative Devices and it’s more affordable than my desktop and it performs just as great and I have a full video on it right here! Lmk if that helps 🔥 Here’s the link th-cam.com/video/KxrHMgKnLjA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8TSSiOZg-dYe8MN6
so it is pushing me to think about when the musicians and producers are making music will be better avoiding that first bass impact to let the kick be alone right? but as i can see the signal there are no much attack in that bass line so what happen if the bass is really punchy in the first transient and you don't want to loose the bass attack even the kick?
The key here if you want a loud mix is understanding how your sounds sum and work together. I only went into kick and bass for this example but if you really look into it if a hi hat hits the same time as a snare they sum and the peak increases. Same thing goes for every other instrument that plays at the same time and you gotta be able to know how to side chain properly to get everything sounding tight without any pumping but again this is all to taste because it could get very technical but is why it is also a very advanced skill set to have. You mentioned if the bass doesn’t have a heavy transient but the kick does, or the example of the kick and bass both have heavy transients and you want that impact what then? We’ll you either pick one or the other, or if you like how both sound then to maintain the peak I would just clip the signal but with the two instruments summing together the peak is going to be super high so it’ll hit the clipper hard and you’ll most likely hear very audible distortion. That is why before you even mix your sound selection is absolutely crucial, you gotta make sure the sounds you pick work well together but again this is all to taste. It’s just for loudness mainly cuz if somebody wished go ahead and layer 10 kicks with 1 808 or whatever example you want. You just need to understand what that is doing under the hood which is increasing your peak, which will trigger your limiter much easier, which will not let you push it as hard without hearing audible ducking and unintentional clipping giving you flat cheese grated mix, making the overall quality and loudness very very low. So it’s all about intent and truly understanding what each sound is doing to your mix under the hood to get to where you want to be. Not every song has to be loud nor should it be but just all things to consider and is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to mixing. Hope that helps lmk if you have any other questions
@@darneljoseph388 no because of the way that everything is routed, The duplicate tracks are routed out to the sidechain and nothing else so if you were to solo them you would literally hear nothing. They’re just being used to trigger the sidechain only so the plugin knows when to duck the signal. Hope that makes sense
It's best to do it with the clip gain automation because let's say later on in your mix you want to control the volume of the kick or 808 overall. If you have the automation locked in to the fader then it's going to be difficult to raise or lower the volume of everything with just one move of the fader since there will be automation written. Another thing is you want to use the clip gain automation so that way you control the signal properly BEFORE the fader so that way if you throw any plugins on your kick or 808 tracks they're being sent a clean appropriate signal which is just basic gain staging. Hope that made sense
why not use duck budy or lfo tool or side chain gate? u could also duplicate the kick and make a ghost kick track, scoot it back a few ms or less so there wont be the delay of the attack time for the compressor to kick in. you can see jayson has the “attack” down ramp happen slightly before the kick hits. i think that would acheive the same effect. One other thing to consider is, he’s automating the CLIP gain, so this is prior to any other processing. Most people put sidechain compression and other ducking tools at the end of their chain, but here he is adjusting a clip gain, so he’s actually ducking it first before it goes into his mix processing Which is interesting to me and probably an important distinction.
@@jasonwolchuk787 ive explained this countless times in the comments and you could read more about it if you want a deeper elaboration. But yes of course you could use duck i know this, im just explaining what he does. The only thing I missed was moving the ghost kick track back but other people again have noted that soothe still doesnt work good like that. And i did mention that hes doing clip gain in the video
Haha for sure! It gets pretty in depth but if you follow along with your own material and practice that's the best way it's gonna stick and start to make more sense but you'll get it! 🔥
Could be the same thing but the clip gain automation in pro tools is pre fader which is what we want in this case. If the cubase gain automation is pre fader then you should be good!
@@orimizrahi1100 no it’s a good question actually and I get it a lot. But to be very clear, The main difference between the two and the reason why this is MUCH better than a sidechain is that you can manually match the envelope of the kick duration to duck down whenever the 808 hits with a very unique envelope that compression simply can not do. On a compressor you have your attack and release but to get it perfectly on the nail would be much longer and take a lot more fiddling and tweaking than if you were to manually draw the automation in. And if you see when I pull up the oscilloscope, it’s ducking the perfect amount for the duration length of the kick. If you use a compressor for sidechain, the attack might be off, or the release might be too long where you hear pumping, or vice versa where the release is too short and the phase of the kick and 808 are interfering in some nasty way that completely takes away from the effect which could still drive your peak way up or null the two where you’re getting phase cancellation and end up having a weak sounding bass. Does that make sense?
His god particle plugin got me to -6.4 LUFs in my bedroom studio with no distortion….its the best level I ever achieved by a mile….prior to that I think I hit -11.
@@_20nine_ nah because the phase of the two instruments will still sum together or cancel out eventually depending on the sample and how it long it plays out for which is why this is important for kick and bass to get right. But if you’re doing something like a hihat and a clap or snare a nudge there would be perfectly fine since they’re much tighter in wavelength in those higher frequencies
@@_20nine_ No. I'm saying that if you want to be more precise, there's other steps you have to take... cuz I nudge things all the time in my mixes too, but you don't just do only that and call it a day
@@harpoleon6806 yeah it was, to me the tubesessor has more of a tone and character compared to a cl1b which some may or may not like. What I mean by that is that you can hear the compression happening more audibly if you slam it compared to a cl1b where it sounds super transparent and is harder to make sound bad. With that being said I would probably just buy a used one in good condition if you're looking at this if you can't get an actual Cl1b, but I still like it. Another underrated compressor that I think would probably be another good versatile option that's a bit more affordable but sounds just as fire is the WesAudio NG 76. A buddy of mine has that one and it's super fire so I would recommend either that or to cop the Tubesessor used cuz it's still pretty pricey for a TubeTech clone.
Man, I thank you for this video! But, not as a critique, but to make you laugh, you're making me believe that if someone ties your right arm you'll become a mute guy. Talking about ducking the subs, I prefer to use DUCK. A bit more aggressive than using a specific freq range (DUCK can limit the freq range, too) but that solves the phase issues problem for good. Hit the low ends, let the rest pass through, and smile... ...oops, the left arm started to talk at the end part of the video... But talking seriously, great video, great tips. You got it!
@@marceloribeirosimoes8959 I appreciate you for tuning in! And yeah I like expressing myself with the hand gestures I think it helps get the point across subconsciously much more lol. But yeah I’m aware of duck and I use it too I believe it’s better than this method and quicker but I didn’t mention it only because the video was about Jaycen Joshua’s technique not my own which I was alluding to to one point in the video. But again thank you for watching!
@@josiahscottquinn Okay so from others they say that jaycen joshua duplicates the tracks so that way he can move the sample back so that way the release of the soothe is still timed properly so that it doesn't create that pumping effect, but people also mentioned that even the attack of the soothe isnt fast enough when they do that which still lets the transient of the kick or whatever other sample you're using which is why using soothe still has its disadvantages. And if you use Pro MB, even if you set the ratio to the hishest setting, knee to the highest setting and range to duck out the most, it still let's signal through which defeats the purpose of even trying to get anything useable out of the pro MB All in all, that's why when you use frequency based sidechains when trying to process kick and 808s it's not even really practical which is why I introduced the caveat section for technique 2 in this video & is why for best results I recommend to just use only the clip gain automation, There are other plugins that have similar effects but back to the frequency based sidechain, it'll still introduce phase which will go back to increasing the peak volume when the kick and 808 sample hit which AGAIN circles back to just only ducking the 808 when the kick hits using the clip gain automation or using other ducking plugins that are NOT frequency based are the most practical After all this you may be asking then why even include that in the video? Well... because that is what Jaycen Joshua does and that's what the video is about. But I'm going to try other plugins that people are using to do similar processing and I'll make another video to share my discoveries. But moral of the story is that whenever you see mixing tips & tricks online, always test them out yourself to see how you could use the techniques to see if they work best for you and your mixes. This was a LONG answer but it is very intricate and detailed so I hope that answered your questions!! But stick around and if you want to learn more about mixing then consider subscribing so we could both be on the journey to new mixing discoveries. Again super dense answer but I hope it answered your question! Feel free to write back if you have any other mixing questions regarding this topic! And thank you for tapping in! 🙏
@@Sniper_T_2x Use your own plugins and just test every mixing technique out for yourself to see if it's practical for what you're trying to achieve to implement into your workflow. But thank you for tapping in!!
The soothe is too much, the clip gain automation isn’t. Plus with trackspacer you gotta make sure you really time the attack and release right in order to get a proper effect to control your peaks because if you want a loud mix that’s everything. It’s not too much if you want a professional mix and learn how to do it efficiently
Kickstart or Devious Machines Duck. Highly customizable waveform shaping for sidechain transparency. Done. The first part of this video is way too much boring work, unless you like torturing yourself just spend some money for the plugin 😂
It’s not the perfect way for the hardest outcome. Look how there is a chunk of waveform missing where the kick meets the 808. It misses a cycle or two. Zoom in on your osc to see it clearer. Some may say this doesn’t matter. I personally think it does. If it works it works, but it’s not perfect and could be better.
@@MikeDeanOfficials i agree 100% which is something i was just diving into but that last little 1% matters. Just for the sake of the video i just automated it quickly so not every cycle is on point. But theres for sure ways to make sure everything is aligned down to the very last cycle which could be easier achieved by using a plugin like duck by devious machines paired with the oscilloscope just takes a bit more time adjusting. And uhh are you the real Mike Dean by the way 😅? If so appreciate your comment and time watching the video 🔥
Good for him, but there's a lot of producers that handle it. We were doubling kicks and instruments with drum machines when we couldn't own MPC's. Quit blowing yaself up. We did it DR-5's and Gemini 824's and 1224's. Y'all need to stop like Y'all know sumn.
@@goobstersroom It's not I've tried it... have you? Try to sidechain with soothe and compare it to sidechaining with Pro -Q or anything else, it's not better. If it was better I'd be doing it, and I'm not, so have you even EVER tried it?
![[UNCUT]“ฅนตื่นธรรม”ปะทะ“หมอปลา-ปู่มหามุนี-อั๋นโอกิ”สะเทือนกระทรวงเวทมนตร์ Iคนดังนั่งเคลียร์I10 ตค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/peMD_SAkwNc/mqdefault.jpg)
You doing the most.. All you gotta do is Sidechain the kick & 808. Using soothe 2 is the easiest cuz you can dip the frequencies where your kick lives in your low end without dipping the whole low end.
@@Skyraemusic your understanding is very surface level, not that that’s wrong or anything but go ahead and do that if it’s easier for you…
When you duck only low end frequencies from a sound without ducking the entire sound itself, you introduce more phase issues to whatever sound's low end frequencies are being ducked because...
In order to duck ONLY frequencies in the low end region, the phase has to be shifted at that given crossing point.
Which is why frequency focused ducking on a specific region isn’t really the move.
And did you not watch the part where I showed how the attack & release time is very limited with soothe?
There’s literally a whole section explaining where soothe is not the move, & how THAT’s doing too much and is redundant…
Controlling the phase of your low end is VERY crucial which is why the first method is better than any side chain compression because unless you’re using an oscilloscope to dial in your side chain compression settings,
You’re not going to accurately be able to control the peaks with simple compression settings via sidechain such as attack & release time, threshold, & ratio of the compression down to the very last cycle of the waveform 99% of the time,
Because there's too many variables you have to get right making the first method in this video 1000x better than traditional sidechain compression
WHICH is the main question/comment I received for this video
"Can't you just use sidechain compression bro? You're literally overcomplicating it when sidechain compression does the same thing"
Yes technically is does, but very poorly and limited at that for reasons I already provided.
(i.e not being able to control whatever's being sidechain compressed down to the very last cycle to fully maximize the waveforms peak performance)
But again,
Go ahead and be my guest and do that if you want the two samples to add up or cancel out in some weird unfavorable way which again could affect the overall impact of your low end...
Anyways do whatever you think is easiest for you, but the videos right here explaining everything.
If it’s too much and you don’t want to do it this way that's fine,
But I’m not gonna explain again why soothe or basic/traditional sidechain compression isn't the best when it’s literally right there in the video 😅
You can use the soothe sidechain and the clip gain together but the trick is to take the kick sc and slide it back a few sample 2-10 so that soothe is operating on a psuedo look ahead so that your pump lines up
I see that makes a little more sense I still haven’t tried that out which I’ll have to test but the way Jaycen mentioned it in the mix with the masters video he didn’t mention that at all unless I missed it,
Plus he also mentioned that if you want more or less ducking you just adjust the depth but I don’t see much use of that because if it’s not ducking completely it’ll still have the ability to phase out or introduce constructive interference where the peaks start to shoot up again which is counter intuitive to the first clip gain automation technique
And the thing is if you use side chains that have a cross over point it’ll still effect the sub in some way shape or form where the kick and sub will be out of phase which you can’t always control if the sub is playing different notes but for the downbeat or most impactful sections of your mix it is much quicker and easier to only use the clip gain automation really and if you get the envelope precise in that way you wouldn’t need the soothe, it’s a bit overkill from what I’ve tested so far
I just gotta try out the look ahead you mentioned and report back to what I might discover doing that and if it’s even worth it or not but those are the little caveats I’ve discovered…
@@goobstersroom yeah you’re right about overkill he only does the soothe thing if it’s 3 elements like you said
@@goobstersroom so on mix with the masters it’s part 3 of advanced mix techniques where he talks about the 2 samples ahead back then he was using c6 though I just personally carried that over into the soothe but I don’t have an oscilloscope plugin to tell visually but his main thing with it is instead of using a send or an aux it’s duplicating the track with all its processing on or I guess just commit it now there’s no time discrepancies between the trigger and the kick you hear then you introduce the sample delay
thx!
I rarely watch videos related to mixing cause im a bit lazy sometimes... But I have to admit it, I watched most of yours cause you have the way of saying things, you get to the point and also you show that you know your stuff. nice one
That means a lot! Thank you for watching!!
@@peacekeeper3743 yeah they are good videos for sure 💯
Details! Solid video
Appreciate you thank you for tapping in! 🙏
Been doing music stuff basically all my life and somehow this is the first time I’ve ever seen that psyscope thing and it looks awesome haha crazy how there is still software that slips thru the radar.
Great demo of how to deal with these issues - very clear explanation. Thanks!
I’m glad you enjoyed the video and that was clear! That’s what I was going for so thank you for watching 🔥🙏
Love your channel bro!!
@@mispillionrecordings3469 thank you very much for watching! 🙏
Great video, full of gems. I will be adding these techniques to my toolkit. Thanks!
@@jayemakebeats I’m glad you were able to learn from the video!! Thank you for watching 🙏
This is extremely useful information. Thanks a lot for this content.
@@Juanma23b im glad you were able to learn from this video!! 🔥
How is ducking the bass to open the throughput for the kick, not exactly what’s happening when you sidechain? Sidechaining in lieu would consume less ram.
Correct.
Its frequency specific vs broadband
Referring to technique #1, can’t you just use sidechain compression on the bass track ducking the kick instead of doing manual clip gain automation?
Awesome video btw, thanks for sharing!
In my mind I don't see why you couldn't, sidechain compression is a standard technique. Although I would assume that by using clip gain instead, you could match the duration of the kick to an exact measurement whereas a compressor might have a little leeway due to attack/release time restrictions; not to mention the cpu load a compressor could contribute to when the lookahead function is engaged. A compressor could also impart some unwanted harmonics to the affected track depending on the type used.
Yes you can! I find using manual clip gain automation gives you more control though. For me personally it's easier to draw the envelope rather than tweaking the sidechain settings.
@@swerve_madeit Exactly this
When you use the clip gain automation it's much easier to see the exact envelope you need to be ducked from the kick vs using a sidechain compressor. There is another plugin that does this really well that's an alternative but I'm going to go more in depth with that on a later video 🤫
@@goobstersroom thank you! I get it now.
Brother your vudeoo gave me so much understand for this topic.. u made it so good thank u very much for real!!!!
I'm glad you were able to learn from it thank you for watching!!
great Video Mane🔥
@@mafmane thank you for watching!
great video man very well spoken
@@dudedudedude36 thank you for watching! 🙏
Great tips, thanks a lot!
For Soothe SC, you don't need to duplicate the tracks. You can send them to the sidechain using sends, which keeps your track list tidier and accounts for all the plugins on the channels without duplicating them, thus reducing CPU load.
Glad you pointed out the delay of soothe on the sub-ducker with the kick sc, I've always felt like it's pumping a bit but have never checked on a waveform analyzer. Great stuff, keep doing your thing!
Yeah you could do that but the reason Jaycen does it like that in this way is to supposedly be able to move the waveform left or right to compensate for the pumping & to reset the signal of the clip gain automation on the beginning of the 808 transient to trigger the soothe properly.
But still if you even try that then the release isn’t fast enough which is why just the soothe technique is still iffhy to me and is something I would only use for a last resort with multiple bass instruments firing off at the same time.
But thank you for watching!
@@goobstersroom Great insight, I didn't even know he's using it as delay compensation. Thanks!
@@andiherzog I gotta thank the comments for that one cuz even myself I wasn’t too aware until they pointed it out haha 🔥 but there’s always something new to learn everyday!
Great job good explanation, I think learning from those who have more experience is the way to growth.
That's the way to do it!
This was why Poise was so intuïtive, like working with an mc, but without the workaround and faster results. Ideal for assembling sampled kicks with 808 etc 👊🏼
I love that all the juicy knowledge I paid for years back is now coming out for free. So sick
@@Trentcast that’s the internet! But I’m glad you enjoyed the breakdown and hopefully it refreshed your memory!
well you had a time advantage lol, thats something
also helps to put a low shelf on the kick to clean the bleeding before you use soothe. It'll avoid Soothe ducking any frequency below 50hz
U explained it awesome. Keep it up!
Thank you for tuning in! Got a few more videos like this coming real soon!
This is awesome bro! You broke this down so well. Have you tried the plugin called Duck? It does the same trick but its so much easier to dial in how much 808 you take out volume wise and how long you want your duck to last. You can also select a frequency range to duck. It's so versatile. I highly recommend it, especially to Cubase users, as Soothe cannot be sidechained in Cubase. Peace
@@deandouglas839 yup i do duck too! I just didnt show it since jaycen joshua doesnt show it in his video mwtm video
Curious what you think the difference is between automating with clip-gain, versus automating a trim tool on bass at the end of the chain. I got these tips second hand, so had been doing it that way and seems to work.
Lots of details in your vid I hadn't heard before with his techniques. Adding slope on the attack side is killer. Instant subscribe for me.
Really great video bro!!
@@musicbypenn thank you for watching!!
thanks for such a great video! just one suggestion as someone watching on my studio setup on my monitors - it would be great if you could set the volume of your speech between the videos a little low or increase the volume of your protools recorded audio and jaycens interviews since to hear the low end i have to crank up the volume and then suddenly when the video swithces to your commentary on the topic its too loud! again thanks for the informative videos!
I appreciate you for tuning in! And I agree with you I caught that after I uploaded the video but that'll for sure be fixed in the future!
Are you sure that the Trim Tool mentioned in the video "Pensados" is about Gain and not Volume?
@@fabio_coc_2409 yes 100% that’s why I bring up the mix with the masters video as well as a reference because that’s what he’s talking about
Thank you for this video!
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Great vid appreciate you for this.
Thank you for watching!
Thanks for the knowledge on that...
Thank you for watching!
brilliant video!
@@mixedbypricha7327 thank you for watching!
For the first technique, just use a lfo tool triggered by the kick and adjust it................ it take 20 seconds and it's exactly the same result, you can even be more accurate with a scope
Yes, at 10:13 I alluded to this I just haven't made the video explaining that technique yet. This video was breaking down specifically how Jaycen Joshua does it but obviously there's a better more efficient and accurate way of pulling this off (that I prefer). But that just shows how educated you are on the subject which is a good thing! You're ahead of most people
pro tools make things so complicated
you dont gotta do any of this... this is just advanced level engineering, pro tools is not that complicated if you choose not to try any of this
Yo can make this on any daw not only on Protools I make this on studio one
Great video thanks for sharing it. For my ears, the music/mix examples could come up in the mix compared to your voice which seemed a lot louder in the video.
I agree that was something I had caught after I uploaded the video but I got it fixed for sure now tho! Thank you for watching!
great video man. You mind sharing your windows PC specs?
For my desktop I have
CPU: Amd Ryzen 5950x
GPU: AMD Radeon 6700xt
RAM: 64gb
SSD: 12 tb
But to edit all of these videos I have a mobile setup I take with me everywhere to do all of my editing for this channel and it’s a laptop from a company called Kreative Devices and it’s more affordable than my desktop and it performs just as great and I have a full video on it right here! Lmk if that helps 🔥
Here’s the link
th-cam.com/video/KxrHMgKnLjA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8TSSiOZg-dYe8MN6
After watching this vid (good stuff!) I looked into the Psyscope Pro plugin but the website doesnt mention AAX support... am I misssing something?
It's a windows only plugin. I use blue cat to open the plugin as a vst in pro tools
@@goobstersroom Did a little research & figured that what you were doing. Thanks for responding. Subbed!
@@tpn4781 Thank you for tuning in! Gonna keep this ball rolling 🔥
My Question is why use a ghostcopy for the sidechain input and not the maybe processed sound directly?
By processed sound directly are you referring to a send from one of the direct bus tracks?
so it is pushing me to think about when the musicians and producers are making music will be better avoiding that first bass impact to let the kick be alone right? but as i can see the signal there are no much attack in that bass line so what happen if the bass is really punchy in the first transient and you don't want to loose the bass attack even the kick?
The key here if you want a loud mix is understanding how your sounds sum and work together.
I only went into kick and bass for this example but if you really look into it if a hi hat hits the same time as a snare they sum and the peak increases. Same thing goes for every other instrument that plays at the same time and you gotta be able to know how to side chain properly to get everything sounding tight without any pumping but again this is all to taste because it could get very technical but is why it is also a very advanced skill set to have.
You mentioned if the bass doesn’t have a heavy transient but the kick does, or the example of the kick and bass both have heavy transients and you want that impact what then?
We’ll you either pick one or the other, or if you like how both sound then to maintain the peak I would just clip the signal but with the two instruments summing together the peak is going to be super high so it’ll hit the clipper hard and you’ll most likely hear very audible distortion.
That is why before you even mix your sound selection is absolutely crucial, you gotta make sure the sounds you pick work well together but again this is all to taste.
It’s just for loudness mainly cuz if somebody wished go ahead and layer 10 kicks with 1 808 or whatever example you want.
You just need to understand what that is doing under the hood which is increasing your peak, which will trigger your limiter much easier, which will not let you push it as hard without hearing audible ducking and unintentional clipping giving you flat cheese grated mix, making the overall quality and loudness very very low.
So it’s all about intent and truly understanding what each sound is doing to your mix under the hood to get to where you want to be.
Not every song has to be loud nor should it be but just all things to consider and is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to mixing.
Hope that helps lmk if you have any other questions
i see good explanations i subscribe
Thank you for watching!
So, when you duplicate those side chain key inputs, is the volume of the 808 & kick not rising as well?
That’s the only thing that kinda confused me?
@@darneljoseph388 no because of the way that everything is routed,
The duplicate tracks are routed out to the sidechain and nothing else so if you were to solo them you would literally hear nothing.
They’re just being used to trigger the sidechain only so the plugin knows when to duck the signal. Hope that makes sense
for the low end technique clip gain automation, can you do it with volume fader automation or it doesnt work or make sens ?
It's best to do it with the clip gain automation because let's say later on in your mix you want to control the volume of the kick or 808 overall.
If you have the automation locked in to the fader then it's going to be difficult to raise or lower the volume of everything with just one move of the fader since there will be automation written.
Another thing is you want to use the clip gain automation so that way you control the signal properly BEFORE the fader so that way if you throw any plugins on your kick or 808 tracks they're being sent a clean appropriate signal which is just basic gain staging.
Hope that made sense
why not use duck budy or lfo tool or side chain gate? u could also duplicate the kick and make a ghost kick track, scoot it back a few ms or less so there wont be the delay of the attack time for the compressor to kick in. you can see jayson has the “attack” down ramp happen slightly before the kick hits. i think that would acheive the same effect.
One other thing to consider is, he’s automating the CLIP gain, so this is prior to any other processing. Most people put sidechain compression and other ducking tools at the end of their chain, but here he is adjusting a clip gain, so he’s actually ducking it first before it goes into his mix processing Which is interesting to me and probably an important distinction.
@@jasonwolchuk787 ive explained this countless times in the comments and you could read more about it if you want a deeper elaboration. But yes of course you could use duck i know this, im just explaining what he does.
The only thing I missed was moving the ghost kick track back but other people again have noted that soothe still doesnt work good like that.
And i did mention that hes doing clip gain in the video
This is a video I gotta watch a few times 😂
Haha for sure! It gets pretty in depth but if you follow along with your own material and practice that's the best way it's gonna stick and start to make more sense but you'll get it! 🔥
It looks like normal gain automation in cubase or isn’t it … is there a difference in pro tools i don‘t get or just a different wording?
Could be the same thing but the clip gain automation in pro tools is pre fader which is what we want in this case. If the cubase gain automation is pre fader then you should be good!
Why wouldn't you just use a transient shaper and side chaining? Genuinely asking.
See my reply under the pinned comment
I use duck for the first technique I just use the kick to trigger and u can choose how u want the envelope to react
@@cookupcentral that’s exactly the better way to do it that i was alluding too you’re just ahead of the curve 😏🤫
Where's the next video talking about fixing the last part of the phase issues even after clip gain automation
@@IMPSTR-f6r still doesn’t exist yet but I could probably make something soon
is psycope something you use while mixing or do you go by ear?
I use both, ears always first then I load up psyscope to double check things or to help me gain match better
@@goobstersroom thanks so much, learned a lot already. Subbing and hyped for the next video! 🤝
@@breezyoakk Dropping another one real soon thank you for subscribing!
I mean the soothe sidechain is a cool trick but at that point you could accomplish the same thing with a hi pass filter up to 100 hz.
Yeah i'm not a fan of it either i think it's very OD
Srry for my ignorance but Isn't the first part the same as sidechain compression?
@@orimizrahi1100 no it’s a good question actually and I get it a lot.
But to be very clear,
The main difference between the two and the reason why this is MUCH better than a sidechain is that you can manually match the envelope of the kick duration to duck down whenever the 808 hits with a very unique envelope that compression simply can not do.
On a compressor you have your attack and release but to get it perfectly on the nail would be much longer and take a lot more fiddling and tweaking than if you were to manually draw the automation in.
And if you see when I pull up the oscilloscope, it’s ducking the perfect amount for the duration length of the kick.
If you use a compressor for sidechain, the attack might be off, or the release might be too long where you hear pumping, or vice versa where the release is too short and the phase of the kick and 808 are interfering in some nasty way that completely takes away from the effect which could still drive your peak way up or null the two where you’re getting phase cancellation and end up having a weak sounding bass.
Does that make sense?
@@goobstersroom makes a ton of sense, you're a king bro . I appreciate that 🙏🙏🙏
@@orimizrahi1100 Of course anytime!
how do you get psyscope in protools
@@galliondigital4296 it’s windows only but if you download the vst then use bluecat patchwork to open up the vst in pro tools
His god particle plugin got me to -6.4 LUFs in my bedroom studio with no distortion….its the best level I ever achieved by a mile….prior to that I think I hit -11.
If you offset the 808 by a few hairs so it doesn't hit at the same time as the kick, that helps too. You're welcome :)
@@_20nine_ nah because the phase of the two instruments will still sum together or cancel out eventually depending on the sample and how it long it plays out for which is why this is important for kick and bass to get right.
But if you’re doing something like a hihat and a clap or snare a nudge there would be perfectly fine since they’re much tighter in wavelength in those higher frequencies
@@goobstersroom Are you calling Greg Wells a liar?
@@_20nine_ No. I'm saying that if you want to be more precise, there's other steps you have to take... cuz I nudge things all the time in my mixes too, but you don't just do only that and call it a day
@@goobstersroom and if you read my original statement, I said “that helps too”. Not end all be all.
10:18, did you ever get around to doing that video?
Not yet but we'll get there tho!
Is that a Tubesessor back there?
@@harpoleon6806 yeah that’s it
@goobstersroom how do u like it and was it meant to sub for a cl1b?
@@harpoleon6806 yeah it was, to me the tubesessor has more of a tone and character compared to a cl1b which some may or may not like.
What I mean by that is that you can hear the compression happening more audibly if you slam it compared to a cl1b where it sounds super transparent and is harder to make sound bad.
With that being said I would probably just buy a used one in good condition if you're looking at this if you can't get an actual Cl1b, but I still like it.
Another underrated compressor that I think would probably be another good versatile option that's a bit more affordable but sounds just as fire is the WesAudio NG 76.
A buddy of mine has that one and it's super fire so I would recommend either that or to cop the Tubesessor used cuz it's still pretty pricey for a TubeTech clone.
🎉
I think adjusting the attack on the 808 fairly small will work. Hey fl studio users. adsr
nice
Thank you for watching 🔥
Man, I thank you for this video!
But, not as a critique, but to make you laugh, you're making me believe that if someone ties your right arm you'll become a mute guy.
Talking about ducking the subs, I prefer to use DUCK.
A bit more aggressive than using a specific freq range (DUCK can limit the freq range, too) but that solves the phase issues problem for good. Hit the low ends, let the rest pass through, and smile...
...oops, the left arm started to talk at the end part of the video...
But talking seriously, great video, great tips. You got it!
@@marceloribeirosimoes8959 I appreciate you for tuning in! And yeah I like expressing myself with the hand gestures I think it helps get the point across subconsciously much more lol.
But yeah I’m aware of duck and I use it too I believe it’s better than this method and quicker but I didn’t mention it only because the video was about Jaycen Joshua’s technique not my own which I was alluding to to one point in the video. But again thank you for watching!
YUP!
I use hardware compressors like my LA610 and eqs on my Api to side chain kick and bass. much more fun and sounds way more natural in electronic music.
Couldn’t you just mult the output of the original tracks for the soothe sidechain instead of duplicating?
And couldn’t you also use FF Pro MB if you don’t have Soothe?
@@josiahscottquinnI think the point of the video is to take what he did and use your own plugins to do so
@@josiahscottquinn Okay so from others they say that jaycen joshua duplicates the tracks so that way he can move the sample back so that way the release of the soothe is still timed properly so that it doesn't create that pumping effect, but people also mentioned that even the attack of the soothe isnt fast enough when they do that which still lets the transient of the kick or whatever other sample you're using which is why using soothe still has its disadvantages.
And if you use Pro MB, even if you set the ratio to the hishest setting, knee to the highest setting and range to duck out the most, it still let's signal through which defeats the purpose of even trying to get anything useable out of the pro MB
All in all, that's why when you use frequency based sidechains when trying to process kick and 808s it's not even really practical which is why I introduced the caveat section for technique 2 in this video & is why for best results I recommend to just use only the clip gain automation,
There are other plugins that have similar effects but back to the frequency based sidechain, it'll still introduce phase which will go back to increasing the peak volume when the kick and 808 sample hit which AGAIN circles back to just only ducking the 808 when the kick hits using the clip gain automation or using other ducking plugins that are NOT frequency based are the most practical
After all this you may be asking then why even include that in the video?
Well... because that is what Jaycen Joshua does and that's what the video is about.
But I'm going to try other plugins that people are using to do similar processing and I'll make another video to share my discoveries.
But moral of the story is that whenever you see mixing tips & tricks online, always test them out yourself to see how you could use the techniques to see if they work best for you and your mixes.
This was a LONG answer but it is very intricate and detailed so I hope that answered your questions!!
But stick around and if you want to learn more about mixing then consider subscribing so we could both be on the journey to new mixing discoveries.
Again super dense answer but I hope it answered your question! Feel free to write back if you have any other mixing questions regarding this topic!
And thank you for tapping in!
🙏
@@Sniper_T_2x Use your own plugins and just test every mixing technique out for yourself to see if it's practical for what you're trying to achieve to implement into your workflow. But thank you for tapping in!!
@@goobstersroomdevious machines infiltrator is another plugin you can try out for achieving similar results
Doing to much , trackspacer
The soothe is too much, the clip gain automation isn’t. Plus with trackspacer you gotta make sure you really time the attack and release right in order to get a proper effect to control your peaks because if you want a loud mix that’s everything. It’s not too much if you want a professional mix and learn how to do it efficiently
Fuser
Kickstart or Devious Machines Duck. Highly customizable waveform shaping for sidechain transparency. Done. The first part of this video is way too much boring work, unless you like torturing yourself just spend some money for the plugin 😂
DAMN NO PSYSCOPE FOR MAC I KNOW YOURE LAUGHING BRO LMAO
Haha just a little! Nothing against Mac I have one for editing my videos but psyscope on windows is super clutch lol
Oszillos Megascope for mac
❤ I
Never seen a kick and bass more out of phase than yours though
Where
Technique 1 is a very teedius way to sidechain. Theres far more easier ways. Check out kick start.
@@winstonhumphrey1985 yup ive mentioned this 1000 times on the comments but hey I agree again 😅
i thought joshua is showing us how
@@stwrecords go watch the mix with the masters video if you wanna see him talk about it. This is a breakdown analysis
If you find it online, it’s NOT SECRET, isn’t it?
ur so cool bro
Nicky romero Kick start 1 or 2 can solve this.
It’s not the perfect way for the hardest outcome. Look how there is a chunk of waveform missing where the kick meets the 808. It misses a cycle or two. Zoom in on your osc to see it clearer. Some may say this doesn’t matter. I personally think it does. If it works it works, but it’s not perfect and could be better.
@@MikeDeanOfficials i agree 100% which is something i was just diving into but that last little 1% matters.
Just for the sake of the video i just automated it quickly so not every cycle is on point. But theres for sure ways to make sure everything is aligned down to the very last cycle which could be easier achieved by using a plugin like duck by devious machines paired with the oscilloscope just takes a bit more time adjusting.
And uhh are you the real Mike Dean by the way 😅? If so appreciate your comment and time watching the video 🔥
@@goobstersroom yeah, it’s not a bad way or anything. The 1%’s sometimes add up. But it’s a good video
@@MikeDeanOfficialsthank you!
Pro Tools is a joke when it comes to sequencing. Also… garbage company that requires constant online connection.
@@ghfjfghjasdfasdf I can agree with you on that one. Not a big fan of avid as a company but I still do like it for engineering compared to other daws
Yeah, I understand it’s what people use for big sessions. Copy that
Good for him, but there's a lot of producers that handle it. We were doubling kicks and instruments with drum machines when we couldn't own MPC's. Quit blowing yaself up. We did it DR-5's and Gemini 824's and 1224's. Y'all need to stop like Y'all know sumn.
@@jamesking6583 you sound like you’re blowing “yaself up” Like if you “know sumn”
@@goobstersroom I do know plenty young'n. You can love it or leave it. It's just what it is.
22 minutes of; "sidechain" it like no one has ever heard of it before.
you clearly don't get it, this is better than sidechaining
@@goobstersroom It's not I've tried it... have you? Try to sidechain with soothe and compare it to sidechaining with Pro -Q or anything else, it's not better. If it was better I'd be doing it, and I'm not, so have you even EVER tried it?