The argument that 95 % of backstory integration is the players' responsibility is really good. The GM keeps track of: ... 500+ pages of rules. ... a dozen or so potential opponents. ... what has happened. ... what is happening. ... what happens later as a result. ... traps in the area and the ways to circumvent them. Player: "I can't believe he forgot about my sick sister..." Yea, he's only human, supposedly.
I played with a guy who had a super-experienced level 1 character. His story was he used to be a hero while younger, but then got caught up in his own fame, got used to decadence and simply grew older, fatter, and drunker until he was back to being an out-of-shape, out-of-training nothing working his way back up.
I once played a character who pretended to be a hero. He lasted surprisingly long before a random barkeep rolled a natural 20 and recognized I was a fraud.
That’s a great way to get around that problem he mentioned, I had a player who was a war hero and champion pit fighter but he was blown up in an assassination attempt so it injured him back down a level 1 character, then as I leveled up I steadily healed and got less injured restoring him to his former glory
In one current game I'm playing using the Savage Worlds system, I'm playing an Army Ranger from WW2. And yet, he started the campaign at only 30xp (Seasoned w/ 2 advances, not exactly a rookie but still far from being a badass veteran). Basically, he had been KIA and mysteriously resurrected on some strange new world, and dying and coming back weakened him greatly and reduced his skills, so he needed to work to regain them.
I'm getting a lot of interesting ideas! I've got this 300+ year old tiger guy who has eternal youth. He started at level 1 in the campaign because he would go out and level up for a while, then he would come back home where he didn't use those higher skills and leveled back down. The campaign started while he was at a low time.
@Itsuki Takeuchi Wouldn't even call it semi-superhero TBH. If he only ever practisied with servants and guards, you can always pull the classical "They led him win so they won't get fired" thing....
in my group we never start at leval one, always level five, but i always put all my points into strength and Endurance anyway cuz their always combat veterans and/or giant skeletons with big fuck all axes
The only issue is games like traveller where if you roll well your “level 1” self could have served 4 or even 5 tours at war and have the rank of master chief which is kind of insane to think of
@@joshpexk1215 I think this may be a question of scaling... Like "You've been through all this shit. But you're still nowhere near ready for *this shit*". With the rigjt hooks, you can make a war hero feel like Joe Schmoe pretty easy. Chuck 'em off the deep end.
you know i’ve been DMing for 26 years and have never started a group out that way. I will admit, from what I have seen on Facebook and here on TH-cam it dose seem to be a common trope though.
@@ChrisMoneymakerDHRG I have never started that way either, but I have seen it done. That said, a DM should introduce new players to all the cliches, and put a twist on them for experienced players. I once started with a "kill the rats in my basement" cliche when they met up in a tavern after exploring the town to buy gear. The rats escaped and led to an unknown tunnel system under the city, to a room with locked jail cells. In one of them was a hole in the wall where more rats came out every round. It took them a while to figure out that they needed to plug the hole to stop them (because these players were conditioned that killing was the only way to solve problems). Furthermore, in the tunnels they found a note in a desk with a message that appeared to be related to an old form of thieves' cant. It led them to a hermit translator in the woods who became another quest giver, and while they did his missions he would translate it for them. Two weeks later, they found out there was a whole network of tunnels and an old (now gone) thieves' guild used them (before they split and became the two existing rival gangs that I had initially placed in the city). So the little cliches can unfurl into a real world with a history.
BTsMusicChannel It’s been years now sense this happened, but we thought our GM was going to start us out in a tavern because none of the characters knew any other from their backstories. After much planning and plotting with character creation, buying all the great gear, weapons and armor appropriate for a third lvl character, the GM started our story with variations of the following for each PC. You wake up in a cell with a thread bare shirt, tattered breeches and no shoes. The last thing you remember is being in a tavern when the town you were in was attacked. During the fight someone knocked you out from behind. As everyone was in separate cells, each PC was introduced this way in a private meeting with the GM at the beginning of the first session, so no one knew what was going on until it was their turn. No one spilled the beans after their turn. They just came back in with a smile, a frown or just shaking their heads. Good times.
WILL DWEEBLES FIND OUT HIS REAL NAME? WILL SETH BE ABLE TO EDUCATE THE IGNORANT MASSES ON PROPER PLAYER ETIQUETTE? WILL MIKE FINALLY PUNCH AN OMACRON? TUNE IN NEXT TIME TO FIND OUT!
"how did your character get here" Well it all started about 50 years ago when 2 Jedi Knights headed to a planet called Naboo for trade negotiations over a blockade...
Currently working on a "water world" campaign and a player wants to make a desert nomad character. I had to go back and listen to you give that example three times before I believed what I heard.
If the desert is a sprawling area of ocean...Nerdarchy talked about this with backstory and poor character choices for the world but it was turned about with a land that is all desert and no water. That sort of character could be worked in with a sandsea like in FF12. A sea of liquid sand. Remember that the definition of a desert doesn't have to include sand. The Mariana trench is considered a desert.
@@HoundofOdin Kick them out now and save yourself the grief. If their first instinct is to be contrarian then they're likely a shit roleplayer with no imagination who will likely be disruptive in other ways.
@@HoundofOdin Maybe he was ported there from a desert realm? Plane shifting could have caused a fluke and now he's stuck in a world completely opposite to what he was raised in. If roleplayed well it could be interesting for the character to discover things like oceans and lakes. xD You could also use that plane shifting as a catastrophe down the road when they think they've beaten the bad guy, only to find their bbeg was but a pawn in a demon's scheme to shift the plane of hell and fire and desert to this water world.
I'm a novelist who recently got into D&D. I think the fact that you're a writer is the reason I find your roleplaying advice really relatable. Thanks for this!
When it comes to writing characters for a tabletop game, I think a really important part of backstories is to not fret over the specific details and that it's actually better if you don't write any more backstory than the DM asks of you.. Alot of times when people think about "writing a backstory", they think about diligently laying out every detail of a character's life complete with a cast of characters and setting to go with it. However, I have personally always felt that those specific details are better to fill in later. When you are making your character, the most important is to figure out "What *kind* of life did they have?" and "How does this lifestyle show in their personality". When writing a noble, who has escaped his troubled home life, instead of writing a thousand pages worth of political intrigue of every noble in the area, their vendettas with one another and the copious methods by which that character has been attempted to be murdered, kidnapped or compromised, brushing past that with a simple "Being a noble, there were many families among both the low-lives and the highborn that wanted me dead and the attempted poisoning of my food at parties or the need to look out for political assassins very quickly became the norm for me". From my experiences, the latter tends to work out better. It sets a simple baseline to figure out how my character acts and given the player's blessings, the DM can have an easier time weaving their that backstory or elements of it into his story and world. What's even better? It's never too late to go back and add some layers and details to the backstory after the fact. Some of the most pivotal and important moments of the backstory of one of the best characters I ever played weren't established until 3 to 4 sessions into the campaign. It worked, because instead of pulling my hair out trying to have the full picture complete by the first session and letting all the baggage of a backstory I threw together pretty much in a panic get in the way of writing his personality, I first had the character's most important part, how he acts, down, letting any developments and details come to me more naturally. That's not to say there shouldn't be any details about the backstory. After all, it's moments that make a person. Just that when writing a piece of backstory to a character, it is always good to evaluate how important that detail is to how the person acts. If it's just kinda there and it doesn't actually mean much to the character, it's better not in there, because that piece of fluff is now taking the space of a moment of detail that could be adding something substantial to his identity, just that you haven't quite figured it out.
If all else fails, your characters back story can easily be, "I woke up in a field somewhere--and cannot really remember much. What I know I've gotten from the clothing I was wearing at the time. Luckily I appear to not have tendencies towards nudity." Expand from there.
@@NimhLabs That can most certainly work. Usually, I'd say the "minimum" amount of backstory that is healthy is an amount that will inform the character's behavior. Stuff like "X has caused me to be like Y" or "I don't like X, because of Y". These can be really simple. A fear of rats, because you once got stuck in a dark basement with rats or a hatred for orcs, because you lived during times of war between orcs. Going completely blank can sometimes end up with a problem of having just nothing to work off of.
@@AlluMan96 true... the "woke up in a field" is an "otherwise" guard case, for if you do not know the world well enough to realise a fear of rats in a RedWall RPG is not the same as a fear of rats in an Exalt campaign... and other areas where your backstory might interfere with the setting.
@@NimhLabs True that. It's why for the big campaign I am preparing for my players, I have alot of documents going into deep lore as well as a light "Getting started" document that will act as a compliment to character creation, explaining where the characters will begin, what kind of setting they are in, what societal influence choosing one race over another will have on the players and sets them with the parameters of "By the end of character creation, your backstory must answer these" type of deals.
I never *expect* GMs to incorperate backstorys, (unless the said they would,) but I do enjoy placing tidbit in my backstory, that the GM *can* use, if they so chouse to. If left unspecified by the GM I try to give an 1 - 3 page backstory story, with a TLDR bulletpoint version at the end.
The best character I ever played had a backstory like this "I was a farmer but lost the farm due to a random kobold attack" (I joined a game I didn't expect to join so pretty much everything about my character was just thrown together) I played that guy for 8 years and had a blast. What I'm saying is that backstories are great and can really widen your experience as a player, But at the end of the day it really is how you play him/her that matters.
here's a little pro tip I have for those who want to up their writing choose a theme song for the character- not as in theme to play when character has a moment, but one to play as you write e.g "How To Save a Life" upgraded a character I once had from "Monster hunter from Yarnham-inspired town" to a tale about losing someone, overcoming that loss, and a search of purpose
Well i did go on the adventure to fight the dragon and save the princess of Soanso where we fought goblins, evil wizards and navigated the labyinth maze of alter doom but i left out the detail where i was just the bag boy for the knight and his party of badasses...so technically i did. - Level 1 adventurer with cool backstory.
i misheard "goblins in the paths that are attacking merchant caravans" as "goblins from the past" that's an interesting campaign idea. time travelling goblin villains.
I LOVE that advice on players bring up their background themselves. And you hit the nail on the head regarding working in character backgrounds. Sometimes a challenge in background is clearly level inappropriate or distracting/inappropriate from your introductory plot. I don't know about other GMs, but I am definitely an enthusiasm whore. What ever makes you enthusiastic about my game is likely what I am going write story for. If you turn in a background and then never mention it again except to chastise me for not bringing it up, that doesn't exactly inspire me.
Taliesin Jaffe commented that a backstory should be written from the point of view of the character. There will be things the character didn't know, didn't see, or was simply mistaken. When writing the backstory for Percy, the character saw his sister take an arrow but didn't see the results. He left it to Matt to decide whether the sister died or captured and recovered or escaped badly injured.
Reading background material for a Norse campaign I noticed that Norse sagas generally begin several generations before the protagonist, so I started the backstory with the tale of why my grandfather left the dwarfen realm for Midgard. Dwarfs in the sagas are usually smiths so it occurred to me that I might be able to narrate a masterwork dwarfen waraxe into my equipment, so I included a scene where my father handed me my great-grandfather's axe: "my father replaced the head, I replaced the handle: it is the very axe your great-grandfather made."
Thank you for another intelligent and well presented video on an issue that too often attracts shrieks and clickbait, you stand as a pillar of calm in this sea of chaos. The illustrative example is excellent - too often folk seem to forget that they are active participants in the game, and are responsible for bringing their characters to life.
I love being able to pick out the AD&D-2E Monster Manual, Player's Handbook, and Dungeon Master's Guide instantly on the shelf behind you, and also seeing how feathered and frayed the cover is on the Player's Handbook.... a familiar sight, and evidence of how much time you've spent helping other players make characters, as a GM. Good on you, sir.
Seth, I've watched many of your excellent videos. I've been GM'ing RPGs for 43 years. This is one of my favorite topics. I try to choose players who share three things above all else. (1) Let's have fun. (2) Honor the contract. (3) Be invested in the process. I believe you have tackled all of these in your videos. Great job.
I see you touching up on the players knowing each others' backstories, and boy, did I cheer when you mentioned it. There was a time in my gaming community when backstories were kept secret, because knowing them was *gasp* metagaming. Yeah, I suppose it is, but so what? One very important thing about RPGs is that players absolutely do love talking about it - about the campaign, about the adventure, about the characters. Not everything comes up during play, but discussing motivations and stories OOC is one of the joys for me.
Awesome video Seth!!! AND I especially like that you brought up "Being PRO-active" as a Player about your PC's backstory! I mean, honestly, if a Player only writes the thing and then forgets all about it... how important is it supposed to be to anyone else? ...right? ;o)
for many players thats a huge step from being passive about their story to actually being active about it and I would really like to see more advice on how to motivate people to be more active about it (beside showing em this video:))
@@techorix, I wanted to take at least a day to think seriously on the question about motivating Players at the Tableside... and then get back to you... While I agree that there should be more videos on the subject, specifically more about pushing the "Pro-active Play" approach to backstory without over doing it... I also think (in the meantime) it IS worth suggesting this as a worthwhile subject for Session-0's... added into the category "game expectations". I advise Players at my own table to bring up some of their perspectives when Role Playing, and specifically to drop occasional reminders as we go along, just so I can keep their backstories in mind as I spice up the adventures along the way. AND it fits well with a "GM's memory disclaimer" that I can't possibly memorize EVERY backstory plothook and point for EVERY Player and PC... ever. It (my memory) just don't work that way... so while not being obnoxious about it EVERY single time you do anything, I (as the GM) can appreciate occasionally reminding us that your PC is "scanning the room for bounty hunters" or whatever from your background... and even once in a while actively share the story with the Party or NPC's... so we're all "in on the deal". Finally, as my New Players grow with the group, they usually figure out the "dirty secret that's not so secret"... that if they don't mention they're worried about bounty hunters (say when the Party already has a lot on the figurative plate)...I can "forget" whether intentional or otherwise to include those kinds of "flavor" where it might overload the hazards of the game... or put the Party in unnecessary trouble. AND everyone can enjoy the "background baddies" when they're fun to play with, and avoid them (usually) when we've just got too much else to deal with... ...might not always work as a "win-win" but I'll take it. Most of the Players seem to enjoy it. BUT most importantly... Once you (as GM) encourage or request something from the Players, the key is to consistently (as consistently as possible) REWARD that kind of behavior to encourage it throughout the game... When they start picking up the bonuses and extra fun stuff from it, they'll take it as motivation enough on their own. AND it's one of the things I like to include in my "Tableside assesments" as I dole out XP, which I still do "that old fashioned way" rather than "leveling up" or "milestoning". ;o)
A backstory really only needs to be one sentence, plus maybe another sentence, phrase, or single word that describes character motivation. Either or both lines can be written by the player at the top of his or her stats sheet as a constant reminder.
What a perfectly timed video. I find that the more open ended or freeform an adventure is the more important it is that a player knows their character's motivations and personality.
In the latest DnD campaign I am part of, my character idea was last-minute, spur of the moment stuff. Like... day before we played. So I used Xanathar's Guide to Everything's roll-chart for background, just to help myself out, and made choices depending on what I thought made sense when there was a roll I thought was too... narrow-scope. Character ended up with the motivation of adventure because he was in search of a mysteriously-missing lover. My DM liked it, as well as the random roll that somewhere out in the world, my character has a Paladin buddy that for some reason is a wanted man. Of course, I'm not saying "just use that book for DnD backstories". Just that in that case, for a relatively last minute choice, it worked. To think, I was originally going to try out a Kenku Bard whom used the jeers thrown at his performances for Vicious Mockery. But I went with a classic Elven Ranger and he's already a beloved character for me.
13:25 thank you so much for this. This completely shifted the way i do backstories. My characters now feel a lot more "alive" and i'm having a lot more fun
Stars or multiple star systems in the observable sky that belong to classic stellar constellations are designated belonging to the constellation in latin and ranked by Greek letters, I think according to brightness. Alpha Centauri is the brightest object (trinary star) in the Centaur constellation, Epsilon Eridani is the fifth brightest star in the Eridanus constellation. Stars that carry actual names also carry a designation. Altair, the brightest star in the Eagle constellation is also Alpha Aquilae, Vega in the Lyre is Alpha Lyrae and Deneb in the Swan is Alpha Cygni. Omicron is the 15th letter in the greek alphabet. So the "Omicron system" is probably the epitome of an uninviting backwater planet that no one cares for...
Personally one of the funnest things I've done was for a campaign I took each character and did a one on one session of there backstory in order to explain why theyed come to the main town . it made the characters feel more personal as they went back years one was a childhood memory another a festival and the last one was right before they set off for adventure leaving home (she was from the main city so she was coming home in campaign)
Two things here. 1st i want to thank you Seth, you always do excelent job and i believe that you are one of the few people on internet that even though i might dissagree some times i find that you know what you are talking about and you make excelent points, honestly i believe you helped me become a better GM and player. 2nd about this video, i completly agree. Once i made a campaign that the main villlain did horible things to the PC's backstory, he killed a PC'S a wife and children making him turn into a fanatic inquisitor searching for who did this to his family and take revenge or he stole an ''artifact'' that was entrasted to a PC by an angel and because the PC was an evil man searching redemption now lost his chance to redeem himself, and it was a total sandbox campaign where 4 complete strangers ''happened'' to meet and figured out that the person they all look for is the same man. And it went bad, because i tried to give to my players what they wanted and not what the campaign needed, and soon i run out of "revelations" and it simply became boring and that was the my fault not the players. So to conclude i believe you are 100% right when you say how the responsibility should be handled, i tried the opposite and it failed. Thank you again for the great work
Oh don't worry about disagreeing. Every single GM out there has 1 or 2 methods/philosophies that I don't see eye-to-eye on. It'd be kind of boring if all of us were 100% in line with one another (as long as the Have Fun part is among what's agreed on).
I just tend to lean heavily on Noodle Incidents greatly. Makes things much easier to weave in... if we never have to speak of that day... that horrible horrible day.
The usual ironic character backstory that crops up now and then is where the backstory is so deep, so rich, and so full of adventure and experience, that it fly's in the face of a level one whatever belonging to it. "So, Dandakr the Daring, that sounds great for your older, long retired uncle. Now, wanna explain how you fought in three wars; mastered six different martial arts; became the hero of three villages and a kingdom; all the while maintaining that 01 experience rating?"
My players were very backstory happy, and that was at my encouragement. I usually got a page or two per player, and some of the best subplots came from player backstory. When we did Only war, I pointed out that we were expecting a high character turnover, so encouraged them to pool their efforts on making a regiment. I got a full regimental history, customs, command structure, and the commander's rivalry with an inquisitor
My gnome wizard is a prince, he refuses to loot corpses and graves. Also, he treats prisoners well because, he feels obligated to treat prisoners with respect due to his upbringing. Yes, this also makes him a bit baffeld by certain things, for example he is not used to having to think about money so its quiet easy to swindle him by saying "Oh, this is the standard price."
I was in a long term campaign back in the 90's and I created a background for my character. Basic premise was he a fighter who was exiled from his original country. Then I went to college and only could play in the holidays. The DM then created a mini side adventure with my character and one other character to go and resolve the exile. It was supposed to only last about a year. But ended up being a major ongoing campaign which lasted about 4/5 years and really expanded the campaign world.
I just use Backstory to justify any mechanical choices I made crafting my PCs. Especially when I join late in the campaign or they start higher than LV1.
thanks a lot for the video. one can certainly feel your years of training as a DM, switching POV so easily, navigating through what you want to express
As a DM, I can tell with certainty that the part about it being 95% the players responsibility is spot on, as a DM we are juggling so much to keep the game interesting, with NPC's, plot hooks, location descriptions, plans for possible fights and intrigues that it's extremely easy to forget little details about a player's backstory. We aren't perfect, and it's easy for players to forget that they aren't the only ones at the table, and while their backstory might be "epic" or "crucial to their character", which could possibly be true! Hell I've had plenty of amazing player backstories presented to me over the years that I was 100% on board with, even offering advice or additional details to really flesh it out... But when it comes to playing the game proper, all those little details get washed away by all the other stuff that's going on, we're not slighting your character on purpose, so it's up to you as the player to remind us of them when appropriate! That being said, when planning a session as a DM, see if you can incorporate a players backstory into the details, like a bounty hunter showing up at the end of a harrowing chase scene as a surprise, or one of the henchmen of the villain being the mind controllled sister of the player who he's been looking for the entire time since the campaign started. Not only is it a great moment, it also shows your players that you actually care about their characters, and that you pay attention to the little details. That's where the remaining 5% comes in!
This is the second video I've watched on your channel. (The first was 10 tips for better combat) Making this one more video than I needed to convince me to subscribe. I've been gaming since 1980 (Mostly 2e AD&D) and your knowledge, experience and presentation are stellar. Excellent videos. Thank you sir, well done. Looking forward to watching more.
What I do before I start a campaign, I have the players give me a hometown, a kingdom name and so forth. Then I just add it to my campaign. I love this method because the players are giving me information to add to the campaign that I can use. This also allows them some influence in the design of the campaign.
With a previous group, I had my character keep a journal. I would summarize the nights adventuring from my point of view, and it gave me a chance to insert my views and motives and drop hints on my backstory. I would post it to our groups FB page after our session. I think my DM and the rest of the group enjoyed reading it, and the DM would often incorporate bits into the upcoming story. It was really cool.
The timing of this one couldn't be better, I've got a few friends in to D&D with the starter set adventure to bolster my party's ranks and this video will help a bunch with their characters.
I asked my players in a recnet game to keep their back stories as a few dot points. We have 3 players. When one cant make it, we do flash back one shots with home brewed super low level characters and fill in the blanks of one of the pc's. It helps me set up the law of our own world by visiting places the main story hasn't gone and allows me to bring in interesting npc's too. The players love it because we take turns developing one characters back story at a time, while the other player gets to try something different. I recomend it!
I go Babylon 5.(with addition) ‘Who are you?’ ‘What do you want?’, ‘Why are you here?’, ‘Where are you going?’, “What is worth dying for?”, ‘Whom do you serve? , Whom do you trust?’
1. Always be a chosen one, with a prophesy. Have the character make a big deal out of it, to the point if it being something they almost exclusively talk about. 2. BE EDGY! Always take annoyance with your allies, such as by going “Tch” or “feh” when they say something, even if it’s smart and/or correct. Be arrogant, and always be dark and brooding. 3. Stab first, ask questions later. 4. Always be ready to take the least popular option. You need to make sure that every group decision is not unanimous. This is important if your team agrees to only act if everyone agrees. Never budge and be stubborn until you get your way.
One of the things I like to do when creating a backstory for my characters is leave some unanswered questions about the character that s/he has about him/herself and let the GM's imagination fill in the blanks. For example, my current character has amnesia. Her memory starts about a year ago and the first thing she remembered was waking up in an old basement lab. A man in a labcoat was there and told her that she needs to get away as fast as possible. He knows someone in Boston who can give her work. Was the man legitimately trying to help her? If so why? Does he know about her past? Is he responsible for her loss of memory? Is he playing her and she's a pawn in his or someone else's game? Is someone looking for her? She has no idea. Let the GM go to town to decide HOW she lost her memory (intentional? voluntary? accident/injury?). She had just enough info to explain why she was in Boston and why she was at that place at that time and The GM is free to use the open ended backstory--or not--as he pleases.
I think that last line was great. I need to start focusing on the good things about my character rather than trying to keep up with the min/maxxing going on at the table. I feel like I have a great character story going, and the GM is keen to play into it. I may die at the next turn or be ineffective in battles because I’m so weak (just a basic ranger class), but that can actually be a fun RP opportunity.
I generally make backstories about one page in word, generally devoting two paragraphs to a life story in brief, one to a defining event, one to personality, and one to important relationships. Of course, you could boil it down to one paragraph, but it's enough room to give some details with a lot of possibility space, and I'd say the format can work well for basically any character regardless of grandeur.
Just wanna say thanks, as I was working on a character backstory and this video helped me rework it. I'd like to also add that if you get the time, maybe also have a summarized version of your backstory for your DM and yourself. Especially for people who can write pages of backstory, a quick paragraph or two for you and your DM can help you both remember characters, motivations, and other character essentials that don't require skimming over several pages.
Regarding having a decorated or experienced low level adventurer, me and my groups are fans of saying that the war vet/old assassin is typically retired for several years and is out of practice. Great content as always Seth.
at 10:50 I agree that it should be case by case cause I had a Kobold ranger with a weird skull mask on don't want to tell their backstory and about everyone ignored his stuff. mainly because the dm was so subtle about it that it flew over everyone's heads because we were really not geared our brains to look out for anything related to a weird creature. (we all reasoned that because kobolds are not common so we don't really know what a kobold was) For me I stopped caring because the player was one of those. "My backstory is the best!" kind of person.
Am currently running a warforged fighter. And my background was that he and his unit were constructed to fight in a war. And on the way there the war ended, and his unit was shut down leaving them standing as statues. And over time the other members of the unit got reactivated some how and walked off or were taken away. But my character was still there being used as a scarecrow. And as far as weaving it in I basically have been on my own searching for the other members of my unit or learning what happened at the end of the war. But also learning how I fit in this current world. Since the world O was made into happened long before the other characters and the world has changed
When I wrote my Kobold Warlock's backstory, I mainly wrote an origin story. I didn't specify a particular place of origin or any specific events at specific locations, I just mainly wrote about the character's upbringing, why she entered a pact with an Archfey, and that she willingly decided to become an adventurer. That way it's easy to work her into pretty much any campaign setting that doesn't explicitly ban monstrous adventurers.
In response to the desert nomad in an ocean world @2:57 "The ocean is a desert with its life underground And a perfect disguise above" America - A Horse With No Name
As for the making secrets in character but public out of character: Played with someone whose character, Lefty, had two peg legs, two hook hands, and an eye patch. At some point, they wanted to roll a perception check, so when no characters were looking they lifted their eye patch to reveal they had two eyes We all found it hilarious though our characters didn't find out
Dude you are awesome! I like how your addressing both GM and players here! You're doing a great job. Please continue to do fantastic thing like you have been.
Your videos are the perfect blend of information and entertainment, and as someone who is interested in DnD but hasn’t played a game all of your videos still find a way to engage me and help understand the game/view it from angles I haven’t considered.
When I play, I tend to use the backstory to shape who the character comes in as. My focus beyond that is incorporating the things my character experiences into shaping who they become.
I played a first level fighter with the gladiator background. She was an arena favorite and a champion of the arena. When I found out we were starting out at level 1 I was a little upset because I had crafted the tale of a level 5 or 6 character at least and I wanted to keep it. So she became a retired gladiator after taking a brutal injury in the arena that essentially wrecked her ankle. So she was at level 1 because she had to re-train herself to fight. So honestly, if you want a smidgen of an epic backstory but need to start at a low level, come up with why the juxtaposing concepts were true. The guy that led a charge? Maybe he stole the credit from another dead commander and now he has to keep up this elaborate lie or lose everything.
This is one of the reasons the Traveller character generation system is good. It gives both the GM and the player a scaffold to start with. My ex-scout with a high pilot skill, a handgun skill that could win many planet wide target shooting competition, a scattering of criminal skills and a distrust of dogs was a courier for the Geological survey on the fringes of Aslan space... Nah nobody else fell for it either but they also kind of knew they weren’t going to get an honest answer...
I think back story’s are a collaborative effort, mostly between GM and PC, but sometimes even between GM and PC and other PC. I ran a great mech warrior game playing the fall of the star league and all the characters had great and awesome back stories, two characters were connected by ones family being politically connected and supported Armis, and the other family being Business connected and being star league supporters creating a great background for the two to interact . Had another great back story in a firefly game that two of the characters were brothers one the pilot and one the engineer and their father had kicked them out to get some experience and bring back Business to the family business, the ship was a co-op owner ship, with each character bringing there back story to this new ship.
Excellent video Seth. What I appreciate most about your videos are the examples. They are easy to follow and easy to understand and make the point you are trying to convey. Please keep up the good work.
BAck during 2e a dm we had would always ask us to write one full page about our characters before the campaign started. Not only for us but for his own planning as well.
Sirius Mann, Monk 4 (Way of the Drunken Master) Backstory: An unserious man walked out of his home and stubbed his toe. An unserious man fell into a deep melancholy, and became, A Depressed Man. A Depressed Man found an ancient monastery, and trained relentlessly to forget, the shame and embarrassment of, stubbing his toe. A disciplined man told a Depressed Man that he needed discipline, and focus, if he ever hoped to become, a serious man. In that moment, a depressed man, chose to become, a serious man. A Serious Man, has since, always been a, serious man. A serious man has wandered the world, seeking to become, a heroic man. When a serious man, has become, a heroic man, a heroic man will return to his village, where a heroic man, will have the will and strength to endure, the shame and embarrassment of, stubbing his toe.
Barakas Ambitious Tiefling Rouge 3, Bard 1 (Archane Trickster) Barakas ran away from home or maybe he was left...he doesn't really remember,but he knows he grew up on the streets of Neverwinter until he befriended a half-elf in their young teens and was semi-adopted by the family. The two were trained as militia scouts when they were old enough to join to earn money, but shortly left to be adventures with their dragonborn militia trainer when there ceased to be a reason to stay.
My group did six Drunken Masters in the Japan/ Rakugan campaign setting. Each had a very different reasons why they became a social dishonorable "Drunk ."
You reminded me of one of my brother's characters. He is a gnome bard in a constant state of drunkenness. That's basically his backstory. A gnome so drunk that he can't remember his past. =/
@@kingbyrd.1512 The " Drunken Masters " campaign was around 12 years ago but here is some of the basic ideals of their personal reasons. 1.) One just really like to drink. 2.) Stander " PTSD " caused by hearing hundreds of men screaming to death around you. 3.) After 15 years of political warfare, life just became a boring grime joke. 4.) A common laborer that is hard working, hard drinking, and loved a rowdy tavern fist fight or a mud wrestle. 5.) food cart vendor is a ninja spy. My former game shops started campaigns or single shot game stories with multi-class characters at 10th-level.
@6:50 This. Too much backstory can be just as bad as no backstory at all. A good rule of thumb is to condense it down to three punchy paragraphs: where you're from, how you learned to do what you can do and why you are in the party. That's not to say that you can't write more for your own benefit, but you want to give the GM a _really clear_ idea of who your PC is and what you want to do with them. Being unable to condense your backstory in this way is usually a pretty good indication that your character concept is vague and undefined, so it's a good exercise for a player anyway.
The 3 paragraphs are a good exercise for the player, but that can then be condensed down to two sentences - or two words - or those two lines can be where the paragraphs come from. Share one sentence with the GM; keep the rest for your own roleplaying notes.
I one time ran a game with friends and told them they will be 5th level because they have served their time in the army. This was a way to avoid the "One day at the Red Dragon inn" kind of a start and I told my players to talk about their military service. One of them brought up an orc chief named Iron Gut and his tribe of orcs. The whole table began fueling this little flame to a point I decided to use it. After a couple game sessions in we were down a few players because life got in the way so I decided to bring in Iron Gut and attacked a near by village. Iron Gut got away and my players had so much fun to take on an enemy they created.
Backstory is a funny one. I find it quite useful even if it's not particularly used. You didn't step out of nothing after all. Except for the old amnesia trope. I find that backstories are like edge. Done properly they make an excellent spice for a character. Done poorly it becomes overwhelming.
On the super hero backstory trope it's entirely relative. My Paladin for instance was a champion gladiator despite being level 1, trained knights would have kicked his sorry ass up and down the arena but he wasn't really fighting trained knights. He was just an ubermensch monster (Tiefling Gnoll with no stat under 16 thanks to an amazing roll) in a situation where it matters less that he's an unbeatable badass and more that he can keep the crowd entertained. The matches weren't fatal outside of specific circumstances so he generally knew his opponents and they'd play around a lot to make it more entertaining. Have to say I agree about the player responsibility to involve their backstory though.
This is such a solid backstory explanation video, thank you Seth! I have a game where the players want more backstory involvement but they wait for me as the GM to force their backstories to come to life. Also, I tried to explain to them that fallible characters are cooler and more realistic than their backstory being “oh I was a king and then I got exiled. At level 1. Lol.”
Just started playing again after not playing for years with young kids. I created theirs for them as their background story is that their father had an exterminator business of taking care of stirges, giant bats, rats, other large size pests so them fighting creatures is all they know. They saved enough money to buy their kit for adventuring. With newbies, I like them to be fighter style so as to learn the combat mechanics instead of soellcasting. I run the NPC spellcasters and am using Basic Fantasy rules as I needed a simple ruleset for them as they are 3, 6, and 10. The 3 year doesn't want to be left out and enjoys rolling the dice, moving miniatures, and doodling on the battlemat.
Great work, as always! The best advice I ever got on backstories is that they should be jumping off points for your character's adventurous nature, so you shouldn't have already beat your nemesis on your backstory, nor should you have already saved freaking cities from evil. Leave that to the upcoming adventure, that's what it's there for!
I had a game running that took a note from Traveller. The player characters were all kids in a town where the adults were becoming zombies. All the kids started off pretty weak, like kids are compared to adults. They didn't roll for stats. Instead they rolled for a backstory. What part of town are they from? How many parents did they have? Were they divorced or still married? Gaym Professionals in their field? Blue collar? Their basic skills would reflect what their parents would have actually taught them, so a parent who was a cop would have instilled some situational awareness and knowledge of what part of town and whom to stay away from. And outdoorsy family wwould teach the kids how to camp. What school did they attend and what rivalries did that automatically put in place? Were they from the trailer park on the end of town? How old are they? Do they have a dog? It worked well and set up a bunch of managable conflicts and alliances for me to work with.
yes I know this is a 4 year old video but I watched it to get me past writers block for a pulp Cthulhu character I'm working on (it helped thanks btw) 2 backstorys from the same player (different campaigns) 1 - it was like 20 pages (at least) and was in her words the "short version" her bestie read it for me and gave me the short short version which was about 2 paragraphs, which I wasn't able to work in much because of her being from "way-off-over-there-land" 2 - complete and total amnesia (she had based the character off one from a manga I had never even heard of but didn't even tell me that again her friend was more useful in helping me than she was.) but I was left to fill in all the friggin' blanks
A DM should always ask a player before they decide to use a character's backstory into the campaign itself. Of course, if a player has a backstory that implies a desired invitation for use by the DM, that is different. But some players have backstories that are just that, a concluded story that explains who the character is without need for any development, nor might the player want such a development. A characters current motivations for going on an adventure need not be related to open question from their back story, but a desire to adventure, explore, desire for wealth and/or fame. Not every character is going to have a rich backstory that is a whole plot story just waiting to unfold. It is rather unbelievable when every character in an adventuring group has different yet significant plots needing conclusion. Also, some may never conclude their back story successfully in that their back story is either never resolved or their character dies before being able to resolve it.
Want more Character Backstory Tips? Check out my Backstories 201 video. th-cam.com/video/fDuDDz8pKgk/w-d-xo.html
The argument that 95 % of backstory integration is the players' responsibility is really good.
The GM keeps track of:
... 500+ pages of rules.
... a dozen or so potential opponents.
... what has happened.
... what is happening.
... what happens later as a result.
... traps in the area and the ways to circumvent them.
Player: "I can't believe he forgot about my sick sister..."
Yea, he's only human, supposedly.
And 3000 pages of rules.
I don't care about your backstory. You don't care about anyone else's backstory. Let's attack those goblins or bandits.
Supposedly
I played with a guy who had a super-experienced level 1 character. His story was he used to be a hero while younger, but then got caught up in his own fame, got used to decadence and simply grew older, fatter, and drunker until he was back to being an out-of-shape, out-of-training nothing working his way back up.
I once played a character who pretended to be a hero.
He lasted surprisingly long before a random barkeep rolled a natural 20 and recognized I was a fraud.
That’s a great way to get around that problem he mentioned, I had a player who was a war hero and champion pit fighter but he was blown up in an assassination attempt so it injured him back down a level 1 character, then as I leveled up I steadily healed and got less injured restoring him to his former glory
These are REALLY COOL ideas! I've been playing forever and have never heard of anything like these!
In one current game I'm playing using the Savage Worlds system, I'm playing an Army Ranger from WW2. And yet, he started the campaign at only 30xp (Seasoned w/ 2 advances, not exactly a rookie but still far from being a badass veteran). Basically, he had been KIA and mysteriously resurrected on some strange new world, and dying and coming back weakened him greatly and reduced his skills, so he needed to work to regain them.
I'm getting a lot of interesting ideas! I've got this 300+ year old tiger guy who has eternal youth. He started at level 1 in the campaign because he would go out and level up for a while, then he would come back home where he didn't use those higher skills and leveled back down. The campaign started while he was at a low time.
Thank you for taking about the level one "super hero" background
@Itsuki Takeuchi Wouldn't even call it semi-superhero TBH. If he only ever practisied with servants and guards, you can always pull the classical "They led him win so they won't get fired" thing....
@Itsuki Takeuchi Throne, Semi-renowned.
in my group we never start at leval one, always level five, but i always put all my points into strength and Endurance anyway cuz their always combat veterans and/or giant skeletons with big fuck all axes
The only issue is games like traveller where if you roll well your “level 1” self could have served 4 or even 5 tours at war and have the rank of master chief which is kind of insane to think of
@@joshpexk1215 I think this may be a question of scaling... Like "You've been through all this shit. But you're still nowhere near ready for *this shit*". With the rigjt hooks, you can make a war hero feel like Joe Schmoe pretty easy. Chuck 'em off the deep end.
Space Whiskey is carefully aged in Space Casks in space.
In Space Ireland. Its different from space scotch, as that is made in space Scotland.
Unfortunately, we also had to have a space Kentucky so we could have space bourbon.
Space brand whiskey is best.
* taking my space flask from my space desk * Cheers!
We get it!
YOU'RE FROM SPACE!!!
The Star Bar did a great job of driving your point home
It works in D&D where the cliche "you are in a tavern" starts many games.
you know i’ve been DMing for 26 years and have never started a group out that way. I will admit, from what I have seen on Facebook and here on TH-cam it dose seem to be a common trope though.
@@ChrisMoneymakerDHRG I have never started that way either, but I have seen it done. That said, a DM should introduce new players to all the cliches, and put a twist on them for experienced players. I once started with a "kill the rats in my basement" cliche when they met up in a tavern after exploring the town to buy gear. The rats escaped and led to an unknown tunnel system under the city, to a room with locked jail cells. In one of them was a hole in the wall where more rats came out every round. It took them a while to figure out that they needed to plug the hole to stop them (because these players were conditioned that killing was the only way to solve problems). Furthermore, in the tunnels they found a note in a desk with a message that appeared to be related to an old form of thieves' cant. It led them to a hermit translator in the woods who became another quest giver, and while they did his missions he would translate it for them. Two weeks later, they found out there was a whole network of tunnels and an old (now gone) thieves' guild used them (before they split and became the two existing rival gangs that I had initially placed in the city). So the little cliches can unfurl into a real world with a history.
We did it exactly once, but it was a pretty roleplay-light AD&D style dungeon crawl.
BTsMusicChannel
It’s been years now sense this happened, but we thought our GM was going to start us out in a tavern because none of the characters knew any other from their backstories. After much planning and plotting with character creation, buying all the great gear, weapons and armor appropriate for a third lvl character, the GM started our story with variations of the following for each PC.
You wake up in a cell with a thread bare shirt, tattered breeches and no shoes. The last thing you remember is being in a tavern when the town you were in was attacked. During the fight someone knocked you out from behind.
As everyone was in separate cells, each PC was introduced this way in a private meeting with the GM at the beginning of the first session, so no one knew what was going on until it was their turn. No one spilled the beans after their turn. They just came back in with a smile, a frown or just shaking their heads. Good times.
WILL DWEEBLES FIND OUT HIS REAL NAME?
WILL SETH BE ABLE TO EDUCATE THE IGNORANT MASSES ON PROPER PLAYER ETIQUETTE?
WILL MIKE FINALLY PUNCH AN OMACRON?
TUNE IN NEXT TIME TO FIND OUT!
Same Seth time, same Seth Channel! *BG spins with logo zooms*
Don't touch that dial!
Find out next time on *Dragon Ball Z*
Seth: Dweebles, I'm your father...
Dweebles: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo.
@@brianjacob8728 Doof-Doof-Doof-Doof-Dodododoof...
"how did your character get here"
Well it all started about 50 years ago when 2 Jedi Knights headed to a planet called Naboo for trade negotiations over a blockade...
"No Luke, I mean, 'how did he get to this planet in particular'..." :p
@@shadiafifi54 "I will leave that explanation for the sequel in the safe hands of Rian Johnson"
@@Treblaine oh no
@@Treblaine Misa do a great sequel.
Boooo... That's a terrible back story.
Backstory should be an open door, not a hallway.
That's... beautiful, CactusSok.
@@edatthegovernance Cucus Socks
There nothing like being give multiple pages and a genealogy to make you ignore it.
Currently working on a "water world" campaign and a player wants to make a desert nomad character. I had to go back and listen to you give that example three times before I believed what I heard.
Wow, what are the odds? 😆
If the desert is a sprawling area of ocean...Nerdarchy talked about this with backstory and poor character choices for the world but it was turned about with a land that is all desert and no water. That sort of character could be worked in with a sandsea like in FF12. A sea of liquid sand.
Remember that the definition of a desert doesn't have to include sand. The Mariana trench is considered a desert.
@@adakahless Fair enough, but my player wants to have a character from the sandy dunes in a world with no dry land left.
@@HoundofOdin Kick them out now and save yourself the grief. If their first instinct is to be contrarian then they're likely a shit roleplayer with no imagination who will likely be disruptive in other ways.
@@HoundofOdin Maybe he was ported there from a desert realm? Plane shifting could have caused a fluke and now he's stuck in a world completely opposite to what he was raised in. If roleplayed well it could be interesting for the character to discover things like oceans and lakes. xD
You could also use that plane shifting as a catastrophe down the road when they think they've beaten the bad guy, only to find their bbeg was but a pawn in a demon's scheme to shift the plane of hell and fire and desert to this water world.
I'm a novelist who recently got into D&D. I think the fact that you're a writer is the reason I find your roleplaying advice really relatable. Thanks for this!
When it comes to writing characters for a tabletop game, I think a really important part of backstories is to not fret over the specific details and that it's actually better if you don't write any more backstory than the DM asks of you.. Alot of times when people think about "writing a backstory", they think about diligently laying out every detail of a character's life complete with a cast of characters and setting to go with it. However, I have personally always felt that those specific details are better to fill in later. When you are making your character, the most important is to figure out "What *kind* of life did they have?" and "How does this lifestyle show in their personality".
When writing a noble, who has escaped his troubled home life, instead of writing a thousand pages worth of political intrigue of every noble in the area, their vendettas with one another and the copious methods by which that character has been attempted to be murdered, kidnapped or compromised, brushing past that with a simple "Being a noble, there were many families among both the low-lives and the highborn that wanted me dead and the attempted poisoning of my food at parties or the need to look out for political assassins very quickly became the norm for me".
From my experiences, the latter tends to work out better. It sets a simple baseline to figure out how my character acts and given the player's blessings, the DM can have an easier time weaving their that backstory or elements of it into his story and world. What's even better? It's never too late to go back and add some layers and details to the backstory after the fact. Some of the most pivotal and important moments of the backstory of one of the best characters I ever played weren't established until 3 to 4 sessions into the campaign. It worked, because instead of pulling my hair out trying to have the full picture complete by the first session and letting all the baggage of a backstory I threw together pretty much in a panic get in the way of writing his personality, I first had the character's most important part, how he acts, down, letting any developments and details come to me more naturally.
That's not to say there shouldn't be any details about the backstory. After all, it's moments that make a person. Just that when writing a piece of backstory to a character, it is always good to evaluate how important that detail is to how the person acts. If it's just kinda there and it doesn't actually mean much to the character, it's better not in there, because that piece of fluff is now taking the space of a moment of detail that could be adding something substantial to his identity, just that you haven't quite figured it out.
If all else fails, your characters back story can easily be, "I woke up in a field somewhere--and cannot really remember much. What I know I've gotten from the clothing I was wearing at the time. Luckily I appear to not have tendencies towards nudity."
Expand from there.
@@NimhLabs
That can most certainly work. Usually, I'd say the "minimum" amount of backstory that is healthy is an amount that will inform the character's behavior. Stuff like "X has caused me to be like Y" or "I don't like X, because of Y". These can be really simple. A fear of rats, because you once got stuck in a dark basement with rats or a hatred for orcs, because you lived during times of war between orcs. Going completely blank can sometimes end up with a problem of having just nothing to work off of.
@@AlluMan96 true... the "woke up in a field" is an "otherwise" guard case, for if you do not know the world well enough to realise a fear of rats in a RedWall RPG is not the same as a fear of rats in an Exalt campaign... and other areas where your backstory might interfere with the setting.
@@NimhLabs
True that. It's why for the big campaign I am preparing for my players, I have alot of documents going into deep lore as well as a light "Getting started" document that will act as a compliment to character creation, explaining where the characters will begin, what kind of setting they are in, what societal influence choosing one race over another will have on the players and sets them with the parameters of "By the end of character creation, your backstory must answer these" type of deals.
@@AlluMan96 Ah, give them choice paralysis and sensory overload!
At the end of the day--there are no right answers.
I never *expect* GMs to incorperate backstorys, (unless the said they would,) but I do enjoy placing tidbit in my backstory, that the GM *can* use, if they so chouse to.
If left unspecified by the GM I try to give an 1 - 3 page backstory story, with a TLDR bulletpoint version at the end.
The best character I ever played had a backstory like this "I was a farmer but lost the farm due to a random kobold attack" (I joined a game I didn't expect to join so pretty much everything about my character was just thrown together) I played that guy for 8 years and had a blast.
What I'm saying is that backstories are great and can really widen your experience as a player, But at the end of the day it really is how you play him/her that matters.
here's a little pro tip I have for those who want to up their writing
choose a theme song for the character- not as in theme to play when character has a moment, but one to play as you write
e.g "How To Save a Life" upgraded a character I once had from "Monster hunter from Yarnham-inspired town" to a tale about losing someone, overcoming that loss, and a search of purpose
Link?
I kind of wish Seth was as prolific as some of the DM TH-camrs because he’s the best in the game.
Well i did go on the adventure to fight the dragon and save the princess of Soanso where we fought goblins, evil wizards and navigated the labyinth maze of alter doom but i left out the detail where i was just the bag boy for the knight and his party of badasses...so technically i did. - Level 1 adventurer with cool backstory.
Lol makes sense 😆
@S billings
What if he means like a grocer's assistant who bags and delivers food?
I then recommend playing a bard: picked up a mix of skills from the badasses and spends all day singing songs about how badass they all were.
Thanks Seth! I appreciate you giving my hometown of Sum’ware’er’anuther a shout out!
i misheard "goblins in the paths that are attacking merchant caravans" as "goblins from the past" that's an interesting campaign idea. time travelling goblin villains.
Watch Terry Gilliam's Time Bandits !
Quality as usual. Thanks again for the great content. Can't wait to incorporate what i learned
A good backstory is so important! It makes the character interesting and new even months after he/she was introduced.
I LOVE that advice on players bring up their background themselves. And you hit the nail on the head regarding working in character backgrounds. Sometimes a challenge in background is clearly level inappropriate or distracting/inappropriate from your introductory plot.
I don't know about other GMs, but I am definitely an enthusiasm whore. What ever makes you enthusiastic about my game is likely what I am going write story for. If you turn in a background and then never mention it again except to chastise me for not bringing it up, that doesn't exactly inspire me.
Party member: “Hey dude where are you from?”
Me, the distrustful rogue: “Oh me? I’m from the land of Somewhereoranother.”
Taliesin Jaffe commented that a backstory should be written from the point of view of the character. There will be things the character didn't know, didn't see, or was simply mistaken. When writing the backstory for Percy, the character saw his sister take an arrow but didn't see the results. He left it to Matt to decide whether the sister died or captured and recovered or escaped badly injured.
Reading background material for a Norse campaign I noticed that Norse sagas generally begin several generations before the protagonist, so I started the backstory with the tale of why my grandfather left the dwarfen realm for Midgard. Dwarfs in the sagas are usually smiths so it occurred to me that I might be able to narrate a masterwork dwarfen waraxe into my equipment, so I included a scene where my father handed me my great-grandfather's axe: "my father replaced the head, I replaced the handle: it is the very axe your great-grandfather made."
Dope
Thank you for another intelligent and well presented video on an issue that too often attracts shrieks and clickbait, you stand as a pillar of calm in this sea of chaos. The illustrative example is excellent - too often folk seem to forget that they are active participants in the game, and are responsible for bringing their characters to life.
I love being able to pick out the AD&D-2E Monster Manual, Player's Handbook, and Dungeon Master's Guide instantly on the shelf behind you, and also seeing how feathered and frayed the cover is on the Player's Handbook.... a familiar sight, and evidence of how much time you've spent helping other players make characters, as a GM.
Good on you, sir.
Seth, I've watched many of your excellent videos. I've been GM'ing RPGs for 43 years. This is one of my favorite topics. I try to choose players who share three things above all else. (1) Let's have fun. (2) Honor the contract. (3) Be invested in the process. I believe you have tackled all of these in your videos. Great job.
I see you touching up on the players knowing each others' backstories, and boy, did I cheer when you mentioned it. There was a time in my gaming community when backstories were kept secret, because knowing them was *gasp* metagaming. Yeah, I suppose it is, but so what?
One very important thing about RPGs is that players absolutely do love talking about it - about the campaign, about the adventure, about the characters. Not everything comes up during play, but discussing motivations and stories OOC is one of the joys for me.
Awesome video Seth!!!
AND I especially like that you brought up "Being PRO-active" as a Player about your PC's backstory! I mean, honestly, if a Player only writes the thing and then forgets all about it... how important is it supposed to be to anyone else?
...right? ;o)
for many players thats a huge step from being passive about their story to actually being active about it and I would really like to see more advice on how to motivate people to be more active about it (beside showing em this video:))
@@techorix, I wanted to take at least a day to think seriously on the question about motivating Players at the Tableside... and then get back to you...
While I agree that there should be more videos on the subject, specifically more about pushing the "Pro-active Play" approach to backstory without over doing it... I also think (in the meantime) it IS worth suggesting this as a worthwhile subject for Session-0's... added into the category "game expectations".
I advise Players at my own table to bring up some of their perspectives when Role Playing, and specifically to drop occasional reminders as we go along, just so I can keep their backstories in mind as I spice up the adventures along the way.
AND it fits well with a "GM's memory disclaimer" that I can't possibly memorize EVERY backstory plothook and point for EVERY Player and PC... ever. It (my memory) just don't work that way... so while not being obnoxious about it EVERY single time you do anything, I (as the GM) can appreciate occasionally reminding us that your PC is "scanning the room for bounty hunters" or whatever from your background... and even once in a while actively share the story with the Party or NPC's... so we're all "in on the deal".
Finally, as my New Players grow with the group, they usually figure out the "dirty secret that's not so secret"... that if they don't mention they're worried about bounty hunters (say when the Party already has a lot on the figurative plate)...I can "forget" whether intentional or otherwise to include those kinds of "flavor" where it might overload the hazards of the game... or put the Party in unnecessary trouble.
AND everyone can enjoy the "background baddies" when they're fun to play with, and avoid them (usually) when we've just got too much else to deal with...
...might not always work as a "win-win" but I'll take it. Most of the Players seem to enjoy it.
BUT most importantly... Once you (as GM) encourage or request something from the Players, the key is to consistently (as consistently as possible) REWARD that kind of behavior to encourage it throughout the game... When they start picking up the bonuses and extra fun stuff from it, they'll take it as motivation enough on their own.
AND it's one of the things I like to include in my "Tableside assesments" as I dole out XP, which I still do "that old fashioned way" rather than "leveling up" or "milestoning". ;o)
I've seen players that played a Cleric and - I shit you not - forgot the name of their god.
The. name. of. their. god!
A backstory really only needs to be one sentence, plus maybe another sentence, phrase, or single word that describes character motivation.
Either or both lines can be written by the player at the top of his or her stats sheet as a constant reminder.
I love the running Omacron joke so much.
I don’t. I hate Omacrons.
@@Lobsterwithinternet What's a -Paladin- Omacron?
What a perfectly timed video.
I find that the more open ended or freeform an adventure is the more important it is that a player knows their character's motivations and personality.
In the latest DnD campaign I am part of, my character idea was last-minute, spur of the moment stuff. Like... day before we played. So I used Xanathar's Guide to Everything's roll-chart for background, just to help myself out, and made choices depending on what I thought made sense when there was a roll I thought was too... narrow-scope. Character ended up with the motivation of adventure because he was in search of a mysteriously-missing lover. My DM liked it, as well as the random roll that somewhere out in the world, my character has a Paladin buddy that for some reason is a wanted man.
Of course, I'm not saying "just use that book for DnD backstories". Just that in that case, for a relatively last minute choice, it worked.
To think, I was originally going to try out a Kenku Bard whom used the jeers thrown at his performances for Vicious Mockery. But I went with a classic Elven Ranger and he's already a beloved character for me.
Just 350 more subscribers to 36K! Let's get Seth to 100K so we can have a full-length movie starring Seth and only Seth!
Just subbed! As a creator myself, his channel has been one of a handful of inspiring DM youtubers. Don’t know why I didn’t subscribe sooner!
I used to write pretty rich backstories for my characters, and then i took an arrow to the knee...
What did the Omacrons do to that guy? That is the real question.
OptimusOmega stiffed him on a plumbing job?
In my imagination, they're clueless space hillbillies.
_They know what they did_
13:25 thank you so much for this. This completely shifted the way i do backstories. My characters now feel a lot more "alive" and i'm having a lot more fun
What is this ongoing beef with the Omichron system? I feel like there's a "war story" we're missing there. :)
I never noticed that before, but you are right.
Possibly Futurama?
in pop culture, omichron is also a super well known system. Probably due to Futurama, but none-the-less, still super popular.
Stars or multiple star systems in the observable sky that belong to classic stellar constellations are designated belonging to the constellation in latin and ranked by Greek letters, I think according to brightness.
Alpha Centauri is the brightest object (trinary star) in the Centaur constellation, Epsilon Eridani is the fifth brightest star in the Eridanus constellation.
Stars that carry actual names also carry a designation. Altair, the brightest star in the Eagle constellation is also Alpha Aquilae, Vega in the Lyre is Alpha Lyrae and Deneb in the Swan is Alpha Cygni.
Omicron is the 15th letter in the greek alphabet. So the "Omicron system" is probably the epitome of an uninviting backwater planet that no one cares for...
Personally one of the funnest things I've done was for a campaign I took each character and did a one on one session of there backstory in order to explain why theyed come to the main town . it made the characters feel more personal as they went back years one was a childhood memory another a festival and the last one was right before they set off for adventure leaving home (she was from the main city so she was coming home in campaign)
Two things here. 1st i want to thank you Seth, you always do excelent job and i believe that you are one of the few people on internet that even though i might dissagree some times i find that you know what you are talking about and you make excelent points, honestly i believe you helped me become a better GM and player.
2nd about this video, i completly agree. Once i made a campaign that the main villlain did horible things to the PC's backstory, he killed a PC'S a wife and children making him turn into a fanatic inquisitor searching for who did this to his family and take revenge or he stole an ''artifact'' that was entrasted to a PC by an angel and because the PC was an evil man searching redemption now lost his chance to redeem himself, and it was a total sandbox campaign where 4 complete strangers ''happened'' to meet and figured out that the person they all look for is the same man. And it went bad, because i tried to give to my players what they wanted and not what the campaign needed, and soon i run out of "revelations" and it simply became boring and that was the my fault not the players. So to conclude i believe you are 100% right when you say how the responsibility should be handled, i tried the opposite and it failed.
Thank you again for the great work
Oh don't worry about disagreeing. Every single GM out there has 1 or 2 methods/philosophies that I don't see eye-to-eye on. It'd be kind of boring if all of us were 100% in line with one another (as long as the Have Fun part is among what's agreed on).
I just tend to lean heavily on Noodle Incidents greatly. Makes things much easier to weave in... if we never have to speak of that day... that horrible horrible day.
The usual ironic character backstory that crops up now and then is where the backstory is so deep, so rich, and so full of adventure and experience, that it fly's in the face of a level one whatever belonging to it.
"So, Dandakr the Daring, that sounds great for your older, long retired uncle. Now, wanna explain how you fought in three wars; mastered six different martial arts; became the hero of three villages and a kingdom; all the while maintaining that 01 experience rating?"
This is going to be useful in crafting a Cyberpunk Red character. I never played tabletop RPGs so your channel is really helpful and interesting.
My players were very backstory happy, and that was at my encouragement. I usually got a page or two per player, and some of the best subplots came from player backstory. When we did Only war, I pointed out that we were expecting a high character turnover, so encouraged them to pool their efforts on making a regiment. I got a full regimental history, customs, command structure, and the commander's rivalry with an inquisitor
"I have a hard time remembering what I ate yesterday..." I felt that deeply.
I’m an Australian and I approve this analogy
My gnome wizard is a prince, he refuses to loot corpses and graves. Also, he treats prisoners well because, he feels obligated to treat prisoners with respect due to his upbringing. Yes, this also makes him a bit baffeld by certain things, for example he is not used to having to think about money so its quiet easy to swindle him by saying "Oh, this is the standard price."
I was in a long term campaign back in the 90's and I created a background for my character. Basic premise was he a fighter who was exiled from his original country. Then I went to college and only could play in the holidays. The DM then created a mini side adventure with my character and one other character to go and resolve the exile. It was supposed to only last about a year. But ended up being a major ongoing campaign which lasted about 4/5 years and really expanded the campaign world.
I just use Backstory to justify any mechanical choices I made crafting my PCs. Especially when I join late in the campaign or they start higher than LV1.
Thanks for another nugget to request my players to view. This will definitely help them understand player mechanics.
thanks a lot for the video. one can certainly feel your years of training as a DM, switching POV so easily, navigating through what you want to express
As a DM, I can tell with certainty that the part about it being 95% the players responsibility is spot on, as a DM we are juggling so much to keep the game interesting, with NPC's, plot hooks, location descriptions, plans for possible fights and intrigues that it's extremely easy to forget little details about a player's backstory. We aren't perfect, and it's easy for players to forget that they aren't the only ones at the table, and while their backstory might be "epic" or "crucial to their character", which could possibly be true! Hell I've had plenty of amazing player backstories presented to me over the years that I was 100% on board with, even offering advice or additional details to really flesh it out... But when it comes to playing the game proper, all those little details get washed away by all the other stuff that's going on, we're not slighting your character on purpose, so it's up to you as the player to remind us of them when appropriate!
That being said, when planning a session as a DM, see if you can incorporate a players backstory into the details, like a bounty hunter showing up at the end of a harrowing chase scene as a surprise, or one of the henchmen of the villain being the mind controllled sister of the player who he's been looking for the entire time since the campaign started. Not only is it a great moment, it also shows your players that you actually care about their characters, and that you pay attention to the little details. That's where the remaining 5% comes in!
This is the second video I've watched on your channel. (The first was 10 tips for better combat) Making this one more video than I needed to convince me to subscribe. I've been gaming since 1980 (Mostly 2e AD&D) and your knowledge, experience and presentation are stellar. Excellent videos. Thank you sir, well done. Looking forward to watching more.
Best video yet. The contrasting example skits were amazing and so illuminating.
What I do before I start a campaign, I have the players give me a hometown, a kingdom name and so forth. Then I just add it to my campaign. I love this method because the players are giving me information to add to the campaign that I can use. This also allows them some influence in the design of the campaign.
With a previous group, I had my character keep a journal. I would summarize the nights adventuring from my point of view, and it gave me a chance to insert my views and motives and drop hints on my backstory. I would post it to our groups FB page after our session. I think my DM and the rest of the group enjoyed reading it, and the DM would often incorporate bits into the upcoming story. It was really cool.
The timing of this one couldn't be better, I've got a few friends in to D&D with the starter set adventure to bolster my party's ranks and this video will help a bunch with their characters.
Way more useful to me than the “just don’t do x” videos. Thanks!
I asked my players in a recnet game to keep their back stories as a few dot points. We have 3 players. When one cant make it, we do flash back one shots with home brewed super low level characters and fill in the blanks of one of the pc's. It helps me set up the law of our own world by visiting places the main story hasn't gone and allows me to bring in interesting npc's too. The players love it because we take turns developing one characters back story at a time, while the other player gets to try something different. I recomend it!
I go Babylon 5.(with addition) ‘Who are you?’ ‘What do you want?’, ‘Why are you here?’, ‘Where are you going?’, “What is worth dying for?”, ‘Whom do you serve? , Whom do you trust?’
Great work man. My favorite RPG channel on TH-cam.
1. Always be a chosen one, with a prophesy. Have the character make a big deal out of it, to the point if it being something they almost exclusively talk about.
2. BE EDGY! Always take annoyance with your allies, such as by going “Tch” or “feh” when they say something, even if it’s smart and/or correct. Be arrogant, and always be dark and brooding.
3. Stab first, ask questions later.
4. Always be ready to take the least popular option. You need to make sure that every group decision is not unanimous. This is important if your team agrees to only act if everyone agrees. Never budge and be stubborn until you get your way.
JoeRingo118 your ruining my groove
@@MegaDeathRay10 HAH!
No no no, Amnesias all the way, everytime,
One of the things I like to do when creating a backstory for my characters is leave some unanswered questions about the character that s/he has about him/herself and let the GM's imagination fill in the blanks.
For example, my current character has amnesia. Her memory starts about a year ago and the first thing she remembered was waking up in an old basement lab. A man in a labcoat was there and told her that she needs to get away as fast as possible. He knows someone in Boston who can give her work.
Was the man legitimately trying to help her? If so why?
Does he know about her past? Is he responsible for her loss of memory? Is he playing her and she's a pawn in his or someone else's game? Is someone looking for her? She has no idea. Let the GM go to town to decide HOW she lost her memory (intentional? voluntary? accident/injury?). She had just enough info to explain why she was in Boston and why she was at that place at that time and The GM is free to use the open ended backstory--or not--as he pleases.
I think that last line was great. I need to start focusing on the good things about my character rather than trying to keep up with the min/maxxing going on at the table. I feel like I have a great character story going, and the GM is keen to play into it. I may die at the next turn or be ineffective in battles because I’m so weak (just a basic ranger class), but that can actually be a fun RP opportunity.
Thanks for the Aussie touch. Love your videos and sending some Australian high-fives, mate.
*cough* NZ is still better *cough*
I generally make backstories about one page in word, generally devoting two paragraphs to a life story in brief, one to a defining event, one to personality, and one to important relationships.
Of course, you could boil it down to one paragraph, but it's enough room to give some details with a lot of possibility space, and I'd say the format can work well for basically any character regardless of grandeur.
Just wanna say thanks, as I was working on a character backstory and this video helped me rework it. I'd like to also add that if you get the time, maybe also have a summarized version of your backstory for your DM and yourself. Especially for people who can write pages of backstory, a quick paragraph or two for you and your DM can help you both remember characters, motivations, and other character essentials that don't require skimming over several pages.
Regarding having a decorated or experienced low level adventurer, me and my groups are fans of saying that the war vet/old assassin is typically retired for several years and is out of practice. Great content as always Seth.
at 10:50 I agree that it should be case by case cause I had a Kobold ranger with a weird skull mask on don't want to tell their backstory and about everyone ignored his stuff. mainly because the dm was so subtle about it that it flew over everyone's heads because we were really not geared our brains to look out for anything related to a weird creature. (we all reasoned that because kobolds are not common so we don't really know what a kobold was) For me I stopped caring because the player was one of those. "My backstory is the best!" kind of person.
Thank you for your video on how to arrange backstory, and who uses backstory the most. It's good to remember that kinda thing.
Am currently running a warforged fighter. And my background was that he and his unit were constructed to fight in a war. And on the way there the war ended, and his unit was shut down leaving them standing as statues. And over time the other members of the unit got reactivated some how and walked off or were taken away. But my character was still there being used as a scarecrow. And as far as weaving it in I basically have been on my own searching for the other members of my unit or learning what happened at the end of the war. But also learning how I fit in this current world. Since the world O was made into happened long before the other characters and the world has changed
This video came at a perfect time, and I am excited to take in all the advice when we get the ball rolling on this.
When I wrote my Kobold Warlock's backstory, I mainly wrote an origin story. I didn't specify a particular place of origin or any specific events at specific locations, I just mainly wrote about the character's upbringing, why she entered a pact with an Archfey, and that she willingly decided to become an adventurer. That way it's easy to work her into pretty much any campaign setting that doesn't explicitly ban monstrous adventurers.
In response to the desert nomad in an ocean world @2:57
"The ocean is a desert with its life underground
And a perfect disguise above"
America - A Horse With No Name
As for the making secrets in character but public out of character:
Played with someone whose character, Lefty, had two peg legs, two hook hands, and an eye patch.
At some point, they wanted to roll a perception check, so when no characters were looking they lifted their eye patch to reveal they had two eyes
We all found it hilarious though our characters didn't find out
Amazing
Dude you are awesome! I like how your addressing both GM and players here! You're doing a great job. Please continue to do fantastic thing like you have been.
Your videos are the perfect blend of information and entertainment, and as someone who is interested in DnD but hasn’t played a game all of your videos still find a way to engage me and help understand the game/view it from angles I haven’t considered.
When I play, I tend to use the backstory to shape who the character comes in as. My focus beyond that is incorporating the things my character experiences into shaping who they become.
I played a first level fighter with the gladiator background. She was an arena favorite and a champion of the arena. When I found out we were starting out at level 1 I was a little upset because I had crafted the tale of a level 5 or 6 character at least and I wanted to keep it. So she became a retired gladiator after taking a brutal injury in the arena that essentially wrecked her ankle. So she was at level 1 because she had to re-train herself to fight. So honestly, if you want a smidgen of an epic backstory but need to start at a low level, come up with why the juxtaposing concepts were true. The guy that led a charge? Maybe he stole the credit from another dead commander and now he has to keep up this elaborate lie or lose everything.
Nice omicron call back to Five GM Secrets.
6:07 I resonate with that picture on a spiritual level
This is one of the reasons the Traveller character generation system is good. It gives both the GM and the player a scaffold to start with. My ex-scout with a high pilot skill, a handgun skill that could win many planet wide target shooting competition, a scattering of criminal skills and a distrust of dogs was a courier for the Geological survey on the fringes of Aslan space...
Nah nobody else fell for it either but they also kind of knew they weren’t going to get an honest answer...
I think back story’s are a collaborative effort, mostly between GM and PC, but sometimes even between GM and PC and other PC.
I ran a great mech warrior game playing the fall of the star league and all the characters had great and awesome back stories, two characters were connected by ones family being politically connected and supported Armis, and the other family being Business connected and being star league supporters creating a great background for the two to interact .
Had another great back story in a firefly game that two of the characters were brothers one the pilot and one the engineer and their father had kicked them out to get some experience and bring back Business to the family business, the ship was a co-op owner ship, with each character bringing there back story to this new ship.
Excellent video Seth.
What I appreciate most about your videos are the examples.
They are easy to follow and easy to understand and make the point you are trying to convey.
Please keep up the good work.
Always enjoy seeing and hearing your insight and own experiences~
Great vid, thanks for uploading my dude!
THANK YOU for this one especially Seth. Well said.
BAck during 2e a dm we had would always ask us to write one full page about our characters before the campaign started. Not only for us but for his own planning as well.
Sirius Mann,
Monk 4 (Way of the Drunken Master)
Backstory:
An unserious man walked out of his home and stubbed his toe. An unserious man fell into a deep melancholy, and became, A Depressed Man. A Depressed Man found an ancient monastery, and trained relentlessly to forget, the shame and embarrassment of, stubbing his toe. A disciplined man told a Depressed Man that he needed discipline, and focus, if he ever hoped to become, a serious man. In that moment, a depressed man, chose to become, a serious man. A Serious Man, has since, always been a, serious man. A serious man has wandered the world, seeking to become, a heroic man. When a serious man, has become, a heroic man, a heroic man will return to his village, where a heroic man, will have the will and strength to endure, the shame and embarrassment of, stubbing his toe.
Barakas Ambitious
Tiefling Rouge 3, Bard 1 (Archane Trickster)
Barakas ran away from home or maybe he was left...he doesn't really remember,but he knows he grew up on the streets of Neverwinter until he befriended a half-elf in their young teens and was semi-adopted by the family. The two were trained as militia scouts when they were old enough to join to earn money, but shortly left to be adventures with their dragonborn militia trainer when there ceased to be a reason to stay.
My group did six Drunken Masters in the Japan/ Rakugan campaign setting.
Each had a very different reasons why they became a social dishonorable
"Drunk ."
You reminded me of one of my brother's characters. He is a gnome bard in a constant state of drunkenness. That's basically his backstory. A gnome so drunk that he can't remember his past. =/
@@krispalermo8133 what were those reasons?
@@kingbyrd.1512 The " Drunken Masters " campaign was around 12 years ago but here is some of the basic ideals of their personal reasons.
1.) One just really like to drink.
2.) Stander " PTSD " caused by hearing hundreds of men screaming to death around you.
3.) After 15 years of political warfare, life just became a boring grime joke.
4.) A common laborer that is hard working, hard drinking, and loved a rowdy tavern fist fight or a mud wrestle.
5.) food cart vendor is a ninja spy.
My former game shops started campaigns or single shot game stories with multi-class characters at 10th-level.
@6:50
This. Too much backstory can be just as bad as no backstory at all.
A good rule of thumb is to condense it down to three punchy paragraphs: where you're from, how you learned to do what you can do and why you are in the party. That's not to say that you can't write more for your own benefit, but you want to give the GM a _really clear_ idea of who your PC is and what you want to do with them.
Being unable to condense your backstory in this way is usually a pretty good indication that your character concept is vague and undefined, so it's a good exercise for a player anyway.
The 3 paragraphs are a good exercise for the player, but that can then be condensed down to two sentences - or two words - or those two lines can be where the paragraphs come from.
Share one sentence with the GM; keep the rest for your own roleplaying notes.
I one time ran a game with friends and told them they will be 5th level because they have served their time in the army. This was a way to avoid the "One day at the Red Dragon inn" kind of a start and I told my players to talk about their military service. One of them brought up an orc chief named Iron Gut and his tribe of orcs. The whole table began fueling this little flame to a point I decided to use it. After a couple game sessions in we were down a few players because life got in the way so I decided to bring in Iron Gut and attacked a near by village. Iron Gut got away and my players had so much fun to take on an enemy they created.
Backstory is a funny one. I find it quite useful even if it's not particularly used. You didn't step out of nothing after all. Except for the old amnesia trope.
I find that backstories are like edge. Done properly they make an excellent spice for a character. Done poorly it becomes overwhelming.
On the super hero backstory trope it's entirely relative. My Paladin for instance was a champion gladiator despite being level 1, trained knights would have kicked his sorry ass up and down the arena but he wasn't really fighting trained knights. He was just an ubermensch monster (Tiefling Gnoll with no stat under 16 thanks to an amazing roll) in a situation where it matters less that he's an unbeatable badass and more that he can keep the crowd entertained. The matches weren't fatal outside of specific circumstances so he generally knew his opponents and they'd play around a lot to make it more entertaining.
Have to say I agree about the player responsibility to involve their backstory though.
Seth, thank you so much for this in-depth look at how players are responsible for providing the game master and assist!
This is such a solid backstory explanation video, thank you Seth! I have a game where the players want more backstory involvement but they wait for me as the GM to force their backstories to come to life. Also, I tried to explain to them that fallible characters are cooler and more realistic than their backstory being “oh I was a king and then I got exiled. At level 1. Lol.”
Just started playing again after not playing for years with young kids. I created theirs for them as their background story is that their father had an exterminator business of taking care of stirges, giant bats, rats, other large size pests so them fighting creatures is all they know. They saved enough money to buy their kit for adventuring. With newbies, I like them to be fighter style so as to learn the combat mechanics instead of soellcasting. I run the NPC spellcasters and am using Basic Fantasy rules as I needed a simple ruleset for them as they are 3, 6, and 10. The 3 year doesn't want to be left out and enjoys rolling the dice, moving miniatures, and doodling on the battlemat.
Great Video and Tips, Thanks
Great work, as always!
The best advice I ever got on backstories is that they should be jumping off points for your character's adventurous nature, so you shouldn't have already beat your nemesis on your backstory, nor should you have already saved freaking cities from evil. Leave that to the upcoming adventure, that's what it's there for!
I had a game running that took a note from Traveller. The player characters were all kids in a town where the adults were becoming zombies. All the kids started off pretty weak, like kids are compared to adults. They didn't roll for stats. Instead they rolled for a backstory. What part of town are they from? How many parents did they have? Were they divorced or still married? Gaym Professionals in their field? Blue collar? Their basic skills would reflect what their parents would have actually taught them, so a parent who was a cop would have instilled some situational awareness and knowledge of what part of town and whom to stay away from. And outdoorsy family wwould teach the kids how to camp. What school did they attend and what rivalries did that automatically put in place? Were they from the trailer park on the end of town? How old are they? Do they have a dog? It worked well and set up a bunch of managable conflicts and alliances for me to work with.
yes I know this is a 4 year old video but I watched it to get me past writers block for a pulp Cthulhu character I'm working on (it helped thanks btw) 2 backstorys from the same player (different campaigns) 1 - it was like 20 pages (at least) and was in her words the "short version" her bestie read it for me and gave me the short short version which was about 2 paragraphs, which I wasn't able to work in much because of her being from "way-off-over-there-land" 2 - complete and total amnesia (she had based the character off one from a manga I had never even heard of but didn't even tell me that again her friend was more useful in helping me than she was.) but I was left to fill in all the friggin' blanks
A DM should always ask a player before they decide to use a character's backstory into the campaign itself. Of course, if a player has a backstory that implies a desired invitation for use by the DM, that is different. But some players have backstories that are just that, a concluded story that explains who the character is without need for any development, nor might the player want such a development.
A characters current motivations for going on an adventure need not be related to open question from their back story, but a desire to adventure, explore, desire for wealth and/or fame. Not every character is going to have a rich backstory that is a whole plot story just waiting to unfold. It is rather unbelievable when every character in an adventuring group has different yet significant plots needing conclusion. Also, some may never conclude their back story successfully in that their back story is either never resolved or their character dies before being able to resolve it.
Beautifully explained. I’m hyped up on playing and incorporating these and hours of other information you’ve shared. Big thank you