What if the Soviets had joined the Axis in the WW2? A detailed alternate timeline! (Part 1 of 3)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ต.ค. 2020
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Imagine World War 2 going a different route. Imagine German and Soviet pact of 1939 being just the beginning. There is no Operation Barbarossa. But a true alliance is formed instead, with Soviets joining the Axis forces. Could they change the tide of the war? What would such a conflict look like? due to the complexity, this is just the first part of a 3-part series.
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Please🙏🙏🙏 make video on india and America vs China nad Pakistan
I'm gonna download it
What if japan was on the allies's side in ww1?
Could Modern South Korea Survive and Win the Korean War??? (1950-1953)
Binkov join the game please I want to play against you
Imagine rommel and zhukov working together
Haha, the tanks goes BRRRRR and soldiers go URAAAA
Stalin might not have given Zhukov so much power without Germany threatening Russia’s existence.
Luckily we'd still have Patton
The best generals in history
@Morning Star I see what you mean but Patton beat him at his own game in Tunisia with inexperienced soldiers. He was the spearhead of American forces in the center regions and was able to move a few divisions of soldiers 100 miles in 2 days with no modern equipment in the tough Europe winter. Their are many more cases I could research and bring up but I don't have them in my head 😂 But I see what you mean, Rommel is, probably, THE main figure head of tank warfare but don't underestimate Patton. The Germans did and you can research the results yourself.
İmagine living in turkey and sweden in this scenerio
(chuckles)
I'm in danger
Forgot about Switzerland
I think the Swedes would join the Axis at this point - it would be the smart move.
@@Lorddonen Nope they would join Axis
@@darthvader4899 no
Finally, the perfect ship: the Fatherland and the Motherland.
Countryhumans: I am already four parallel universes ahead of you.
together they created the OH LOOK WE HAD A Baby land!
And Poland the abused child
@@commanderdark3399 Poland and Russia have a long history of invading each other. The only difference this time is HOW BADLY Poland lost.
@@JeanLucCaptain well yes, obviously. i am not saying it would change anything about poland.
"What if the Soviets had joined the Axis in the WW2?"
Well...
*did you saw the video "Meet the Medic"?*
Yes, it was beautiful
I am ze Übermensch!
That's a perfect metaphor for this parallel universe.
I HAVE NO IDEA
Dude they were part of the Axis until Germany decided to attack them.
The very possibility of the USSR joining the Axis was Churchill's literal worst fear.
It would have been more realistic that England would join Germany because Hitler hated the Russians
@@MG.1900 so that's why they invaded Poland together
Churchills worst nightmare, Stalins wet dream
@Kazumaf but Hitler did, he was a Marxist, a racist Marxist but a Marxist none the less
Hitler: "In die russischen Städte gehen wir nicht hinein, sie müssen vollständig ersterben"
Hitler: "We don't go into the Russian cities, they have to die completely"
The USSR would give oil to the Japanese , wich in this case , Pearl Harbour doesn't happen
Japan was expansionist either way, so there would still be an attack on Pearl Harbor.
Japan was expansionist, but their interest laid in China and Asia. Due to US blockade and the lack of oil, Japan decided to invade oil-rich areas like Borneo and Dutch New Guinea. The problem was that their new supply routes would be within striking range from Philippines, which was at that time a colony of United States.
Japan viewed US blockade and ultimatum as an indirect declaration of war, and (incorrectly) assumed that US would declare war on them if they invaded these places (Borneo etc) and thus, the Philippines had to be conquered to secure the supply routes. With apparent war inevitable, Yamamoto decided to gain as much of an advantage as he could by destroying most of US navy in the Pacific at the start of the war to allow Japan to conquer and fortify as much as it could.
Without the lack of oil, there would be no need to invade these places at this time and Japan could focus on finishing their conquest in China and Asia. Whether they would attack later to get more stable oil supply (not depending on buying from Russia) or not is hard to say, but they could for example afford to wait till US is fully focused on war with Germany+Russia before striking now weakened Pacific Fleet. Also, now with free manpower from China and enough resources to continue building new aircrafts and ships (like Unryu, Taiho and Yamato classes), Japan would be able to engange any new US fleet on equal/nearly equal grounds in numbers and superior in training. Perhaps with better relationship with Axis powers, Japan could even get their hands on better radars, enigma machine, advice on submarine warfare or better pilot training program.
No matter what, Japan would be in even more advantageous position at the start of war than it was in real life.
@@burningdesire8597 as I said, they were still expansionist. They would’ve wanted more even if the Soviets provided them with oil.
@@xavierlauzac5922
Maybe, we can't be sure as it is alternate history. With US first going into war with Germany and Japan being able to finish their conquest of China before starting another war, perhaps the Pearl Harbour raid wouldn't happen as US ships would be in battle-ready condition or some of them would be directly sent into Atlantic to help British. If war started traditonal way and US was beaten in battleship battle/multiple smaller engagements, the outrage would be significantly lower and US may be willing to accept ceasefire/peace treaty to fully focus on Europe.
@Imperial Dovahkiin and it would still be the likely scenario.
"... The US would declared war on Japan, Germany, Soviet, and the rest of the Axis"
*Sad italian voice*
"Guys, we are one of the main pact of steel member"
Issa me, Mario. Don't you remember?
Ok. We invade for pizza stop on the way to hopeless battle. At least we get the best pizza and spaghetti. 🤷😉
"Stalin looks like a man i could do business with" - famous last words
You failed to mention the most powerful member nation of this new alliance - *Tannu Tuva*
Tannu what?
@Вук Тодић Glad you likey
"German Reich is justifying on Tannu Tuva"
Stalin: 🥱 It'll be fine... I'm sure this won't have major consequences.
Hoi4 player detected lmao
Tannu what?
Russia and Germany : *Work together*
The rest of Europe: *Chuckles* "i am in danger"
rest of the world*
@Tattle Boad But they could fear Japanesse-Soviet cooperation... Main reason slowing Japanesse war machine production was a Oil embargo by US... But there would be no need to buy oil from US, when they could take Soviet Oil... Soviets would have time even for making more own carriers and fleet stuff, and redirect more presence over Pacific for some little territorial gains, and Soviets would want to, because they could use strategic locations for own Fishing industry, Rubber and Sugarcane production (They would like to take Hawai and Midway probably).
@Tattle Boad hahahah USA couldn't beat Germany 1 vs 1 . Soviet won us ww2 and 7 of 10 nazis were killed by Soviet
USA “....we will sit this one out..good luck gentlemen”
@Tattle Boad yeah but America would be a weak country economically in the future because everything would be controlled by Japan, Soviet union, and Germany
Turkey getting surrounded in all sides by russo-germanic axis powers:
_This is Fine_
Switzerland:
*First Time?*
Und Sverige
@@jeegunugger1871 Ja
@@killian9314 ja
LOL. 😁😁😂😂🤣🤣😋😋
As long as Turkey has a second Ataturk, they'll win for sure
I love how the Soviets don't even attempt to invade Afghanistan in the alternate Universe.
Maybe they learnt their lessons somehow imagining the real one.😂😂
@@salmaaktar2547 No, they imagined that Taliban suicide-bombed Aghanistan back to the Medieval Ages.
Taliban dont have oil
@@mosalah8551 Oil wouldn't make them more civilized anyway, they would still prefer to cut heads
@@alkyd85 Same can be said about Saudi Arabia.
The US would have joined immediately if Russia and Germany united. A massive part of both American and British Grand strategy is to keep Russia and Germany divided
and probably lost on the mark
Yep the US will join right away
That is what the U.S government wanted but the American public still had no interest in fighting a large foreign war.
@@cathalmurphy4584 true but if they'd united it would have been too important to stay out (in my opinion). Central to US strategy even today is to prevent a Eurasian hegemon that can challenge US economically and militarily, especially in regards to controlling the sea. Very similar to the British Empire's interests. UK and USA 90% of the time share the same geopolitical interests. Control the sea. Prevent hegemons
Germany and Russia uniting would surely terrify the US government, but how could they declare war without infuriating the US public?
A war like this would've dwarfed WWII in our timeline.
It could possibly even last for decades, with generations of people living through and only for the war.
It would not dwarf it as it would end without either side capitulating as overocien invasions are hard.
I think eventually, there would've been some sort of cease fire. I can't see any country going 7+ years depleting resources and straining their economy for decades. This isn't a small conflict like Vietnam, Falklands, Korea, or Iraq, this is a conflict with all participants shifting their entire industry and economy to support a war.
At some point someone is getting the A-Bomb and whoever gets it first will probably be able to bring the other side to peace talks.
@@freddyd1783 Bring to peace talks not enforce their terms. There are way to many strategic sights to nuke enough to bring capitulation.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 Ik im late but same was true for japan when they got nuked. Japan surrendered bc they thought the US had more bombs when they didnt. Same could apply anyways, even if just 2 are used if the other side thinks theres more theyll be talkin peace imo.
This is me and my friends playing a game of modded Crusader Kings 3. "You're getting Iran? Okay, then can I have Yugoslavia? Thanks!"
National Bolshevism may actually be a thing in this universe
Dugin?
Isn't that also a thing in our universe
I don’t know if Japan would declare war on the US, since the reason they did it was the US oil embargo and needing resources in lands belonging to European powers. If the USSR can supply them with enough oil to sustain them, they could just not reach that desperation.
they needed other resources too tho...
The Japanese would have whatever they need to develop new war machines. There were extremely ambitious plan, some more ambitious than the German. One very famous, being the submarine carrier, if they managed to build about a complete fleet or two, there will be virtually no safe coast around the world.
I'd have to slightly disagree. I dont know the specific oil output of the USSR at this time but I'm skeptical it can supply it, the Germans, the Italians (gotta keep that big ass Italian navy supplied so it can fight the brits), AND the Japanese army and navy (itself also being very damn big)
I dont know, seems a stretch, for sure the USSR would want to keep the Japanese navy afloat to fight the U.S. but I doubt it'd be enough to meet Japanese demand. The U.S. embargo would still likely be enough to cause desperation
@@ekulzonum USA was by far the biggest producer of oil in 1941. 2nd was USSR and Venezuela - both were joint 2nd. German know how and efficiencies I'm sure would have played a key part in ramping up Soviet production to at least US levels.
@Вук Тодић
Japan could exchange carrier designs and doctrine for oil, steel and other materials. Japan had multiple different classes of carriers and even if they only traded older types it would still massively help German and Soviet carrier program. This way they could get more oil that would otherwise go to Italian Navy.
Was anyone else slightly bugged by the inconsistencies in the maps?
For example, these two islands of Corsica and Sardinia west of Italy should be colored red (Axis)
yes
Yeah the baltic states was wrongly marked a few times that sucks...
Also yugoslavia stopped de facto existing in 41', being split between croatia and serbia, baltic states were occupied by the ussr.
Romania owned Bessarabia and Japan isn't part of the alliance
I would never say that Germany lost air war over Brittain, Hitler just changed objectives.
Because he was losing 🇬🇧
Hitler would have stabbed Stalin in the back again.
I can only imagine the pressure placed on the Manhattan Project in this timeline.
Yeah. The only freaking way out.
Facts
@@jc.1191 nazis built the nuke for allies so....the allies wouldnt have it in this scenario
@@amogus2043 good point!
@@amogus2043 no, they didn’t. The majority of the scientists from Germany were ones that fled to America, do you really think the same country that created internment camps for a few thousand American-Germans trust actual Nazis? Even if for some reason many were nazis, that would just delay the creation a few weeks or months
Point of note:
Rommel was commanding roughly two divisions of _German_ troops. But throughout the entirety of the North African campaign, most Axis troops were Italian. At the Second Battle of El Alamein there were 10 Italian divisions plus independent brigades. The Italian troops in North Africa actually performed very well considering their lack of modern equipment when placed under German command. At the Battle of Gazala, which is considered Rommel's most impressive victory, Italian troops outnumbered their German counterparts 2:1.
"The Italian command was, for the most part, not equal to the task of carrying on war in the desert, where the requirement was lightning decision followed by immediate action. The training of the Italian infantryman fell far short of the standard required by modern warfare. Particularly harmful was the all pervading differentiation between officer and man. While the men had to make shift without field-kitchens, the officers, or many of them, refused adamantly to forgo their several course meals. Many officers, again, considered it unnecessary to put in an appearance during battle and thus set the men an example. All in all, therefore, it was small wonder that the Italian soldier, who incidentally was extraordinarily modest in his needs, developed a feeling of inferiority which accounted for his occasional failure and moments of crisis."
True, but more German troops with better equipment and training (especially in terms of experienced officers and field commanders), is still a plus.
You are correct.--I would also add that the main reason why mostly Italian infantry divisions were deployed in N. Africa had a lot more to do with the logistical constraints of the campaign than it did with a scarcity in tanks, troops, or war-materials on the German side. The German OKW actually offered to send several more armored divisions in support of Rommel during the run up to the battle of El Alamein, but Rommel refused, stating that what he _desperately_ needed was more trucks, fuel and supplies; not tanks. The Italian divisions, being relatively light on their feet compared to their German counterparts, put a lot less strain on logistics, as well as being generally less affected by attritional factors like mal-nutrition, heat-stroke and disease. (Despite all their training and combat experience, the Germans hadn't quite figured out the fine art of digging a proper latrine yet. Which lead to Rommel's famous Afrika Korps becoming completely rife with dysenterie as the campaign dragged on).
[source: "BATTLESTORM: Operation Crusader"]
Huh, so the spagettis aren't that much of a meme after all.
Can't say that for their leadership tho. Lions led by lambs or some shit
@@killian9314 I mean, the battle of Pont Saint Louis still exist, so we can still make fun of it.
TBH this alliance would likely be too unstable. They'd both be completely looking for the right time to take out or annex or coup their ally and bring them under direct control or just win a decisive victory so they can have the upper hand and don't need to worry about the other side doing it.
Yes theres no way they just share resources and operations like this. Why would soviets help Germans attack Britain? It doesnt help USSR at all
The US would still hold Midway even if they lost the naval battle, compared to other islands, Japan could not send such a big force to take it considering the distance and the US garrison alone could hold them of
Exactly. Plus he said that the US would focus on naval and air power. The US force at Midway wasn’t massive at all so there is no reason to believe that it would be smaller or that real life event would have been any different.
If the USSR joined the Axis, the Italian navy would have been more active due to a heavier influx of oil.
The reason the Italian active wasn't that active is due to the lack of oil. Please mention it at least in the second video, because it is extremely important.
With Iran and Iraq conquered, oil would be more than enough. Let's not forget that Romania's oil fields will be pretty much intact, due to no Soviet bombings, and due to Soviet air support. The US and the UK would rather not bomb it as they would believe it wouldn't be worth it due to the distance and the other active oil fields Germany can use as an alternative.
When Egypt is conquered, even more oil is available, and the British are pretty much gone from the Mediterranean, which would allow for more action of the Italian fleet in the Atlantic.
The reason the Italian navy remained in port, was due to the Regia marina naval doctrine. All Italian ships were designed for war in the med, and would require extensive remodeling to serve in the Atlantic and Indian Ocean. The assets that the Italians could bring to the table in an eventual offensive action against Britain would be minuscule in comparison to those necessary.
Don't forget the Caucusus' oil, the axis war machine would be (in theory) very much operational
@@yeetus1398 Most ships in WW2 were steam powered, oil was used to fire the boilers. Even today, the US super carriers are steam powered.
@@MajinOthinus I wouldn't actually call US-Carriers steampowered considering how the heat is being generated but yeah... technically.
@@kestrel16c32 I thrive on technicality. Like how someone who is dying from anything but brain damage technically starves to death, just very quickly.
Spoiler for part 3 - "Nukes, oh god, so many nukes!"
yeah, literally, they will nuke every single capital they know, twice.
I mean germany still would never have built nukes. Hitler even called atomic science "Jewish science"
Let's be honest here. The only way of deploying nuclear weapons at this time is by plane. This makes them very limited in range and much more vulnerable to interception.
On top of that the production of nuclear weapons was very slow at the time.
The main reasons the US for example could easily utilize them are because they already had air superiority by then (meaning lower chances of their bombers being intercepted) and they already had bases close to mainland japan.
In this scenario the axis forces will be able to maintain air superiority for much longer and the US won't have as many bases close enough to the enemy, making it much harder to deploy these weapons. Sure, they can use Britain (if it hasn't been taken already by that time) to deploy nukes in Germany. But the lack of air superiority will make it much harder for bombers to reach their destination. The allies will probably also hesitate using them at first because if the axis manage to shoot down the bomber carrying them they could find fragments of the bomb and start reverse-engineering it. Planes like the Me163 (if developed) might also be extremely useful nuke-interceptors. On the contrary Germany could also put more into their V2 development and gain a huge advantage in potential nuke deployment if they get their hand on it.
Therefore the first country to develope nukes is not going to have as much of an advantage as could be assumed at first.
@@kestrel16c32 someone forgot that the germans, (if they wouldve made it) made a stealth bomber. The horten... hell it literally was called america bomber because it could reach america from axis airbases and that undetected, they didnt need to invest into the V2 programm since they already had the capability to bomb america...
@@prussianboi6381 Wtf. Are you a troll or something? The Horten didn't nearly have enough range, wasn't actually that stealthy (popular misbelief, stealth doesn't make something invisible on the radar. Something with a stealthier design can just get closer to radar sites before being spottet or able to be tracked) and couldn't carry that much payload (To be fair, a V2 can't carry much payload as well but I meant better iterations that could have been made from it.). On top of that a plane is still way inferior for deploying nukes because it's much easier to intercept. The Horten is nothing more than a slightly stealthy, medium range fighter (not bomber).
THIS IS GONNA BE AN AWESOME SERIES!
Best Crossover the world could have seen
I find it implausible for Japan to declare war on the US. In reality, they were pressured towards Indonesian oil, which would here be supplied by the Eurasian block.
Good point. However, a war between the axis-forces and the US would still be very likely due to other reasons. It will probably just not happen due to Pearl Harbour tho.
@@kestrel16c32 Exactly. Because Japan still want to rule China (which is also one of Allies country), either she want to invade SEA or not
The other problem was that they invaded the Philippines which was a direct territory of the U.S. Obviously they could bypass those islands to swamp the rest of the island chains surrounding it, but I can hardly imagine the U.S. or Japanese being fine with having battlefleets having a standing cold war like that.
At the time, Japan wanted to be self sufficient from the west and other powers. Historically the West mistreated the East colonially and economically and due to the lack of resources (oil being a big one) to ever say "no" to them. Japan would not rely on trade from the Eurasian block for long, but as a means to an end because if the Eurasian block ever wanted to effectively "black mail" (for lack of a better term) Japan, all they have to do is stop providing oil and Japan is dead meat and will probably become their puppet similar to China after they made contact with the Dutch and British. As a result, they still need to get resources from somewhere and if anything in this scenario, being provided oil even temporarily just allows Japan to more competently do what it did in real life.
Japan had to secure its own oil and other resource sites if it ever wanted to be a dominant power. If anyone could just cut off so much as 30% of it's access to oil Japan militarily is just finished which is what happened irl except this time it'd be their over reliance on 'allies' followed by complacency instead of the US forcibly depriving them.
The problem is the logistics. There was no practical way of moving Soviet oil in any meaningful amounts from Soviet oil fields to Japan. Most of the Soviet oil production was located in the Caucasus.
Everyone: “the war will be over by Christmas”
Nazi-Soviet military pact: “are you sure about that?”
That was a WW1 expectation, not world war 2
I mean, yeah, but...
Brilliant episode, am looking forward to part 2. Perhaps a sequel to a war in 1956 over Suez with an alternative outcome with the USSR actually declaring war on the UK?
Well they actually did at the beginning of the war, and this caused the fall of France and Poland.
"Poland was conquered"
US: That's sad, anyway...
Ussr was neutral state at this time and trade with germany. His attempt to join axis failed in november 1940.
The map is SO wrong. In 1941 Russia had annexed the Baltic states as well as parts of Romania and Finland.
No. This map changes every time you see
Yeah he is right
Ahhhh.... this is a make believe scenario. Why are you trying to use actual history .
He is creating his own history. Look at for what it is, and stop being a history professor.
@@billsmith8605 yeah man your correct
You're sort of wrong, in June 1941 Germans have already started Operation Barbarossa, and has reached Estonia, some parts are wrong but still
I think this time Spain would join the war, the axis is winning on every front and the axis has the control of the Mediterranean sea. With Spain's help, they could kick out che Americans from Morocco
The main reasons for Spain staying neutral were that it was recently crippled by civil war and naturally didn't want any more, and, more crucially, it relied on foreign trade to keep its economy functioning, meaning that Germany and the USSR would have to effectively float the Spanish economy themselves, and with both being poorly run, this may not be seen as worth the effort. The Spanish wouldn't join in without extreme coaxing from outside powers, and given Franco's previous economic demands, Spain would probably be left alone as it was not worth invading or bankrolling.
@@greg_mca In order to make some sense here, i can tell you that UK gov gifted franco's generals with huge ammounts of bribes to stay neutral. And for sure, making money for nothing is almost the final objective about iberian fascism.
Spain irl already supported the Axis with almost everything they could have wanted, like supplies, volunteer detachments, refueling and anchorages for U-Boats etc. Besides maybe attacking Gibraltar from Spanish territory, there really isn't much the Axis would gain from Spain entering the war.
if spain joined on the axis' side they would likely have been the first nation who had a Nuke dropped on them given their geographical position tbh
dont think it would go well given there was 4 years before the soviets had that sort of tech... in 4 years almost every axis city in the world could of been nuked..
@Samuel Brown By freeing up the German Luftwaffe and supplying the Italian fleet with oil.
Yeah this is a stretch even for alt-history though, considering even Stalin sought help from the allies before the Germans
I never thought of this “what if”. Great episode Binkov.
Uk: Germany will attack the Soviet Union they will die in the fighting
The Soviet Union has joined the Axis
*UK sweating*
1940 Soviet union sweating.
Uk sovjet union is our last hope.
this timeline.
Quess you have to surrender churchil......
UK: "I didn't expect that reaction, but okay."
@@dennisvisser3910 Nope. Neither the Germans or the Soviets had an answer to the Royal Navy.
Germany would not be fighting on two fronts and would have the oil supplies in the Soviet Union secured for its use.
Even if the Soviets didn’t fight and stayed neutral, it would have been a very different and darker war for the western allies.
Yes the allies will most likely win if the USSR is neutral but it would take many more years, many more millions of lives, and many more nukes
@@aluminiumknight4038 no. Actually allies would never win. Us and Britian will also be nuked
@@danishkfd Okay here you are again posing this same, wrong, idea that someone in this hypothetical axis had nukes before 1949. So which is it? Wehraboo or slavaboo?
@@danishkfd laughs in 50k sherman tanks
@Ani061me15 why are you angry, don't tell me you're taking thus seriously
Just play HOI4, play as germany, get the Unholy Alliance focus and boom, Berlin-Moscow Axis
Italy: Guys! Hey, fellas, listen! Germany just made an agreement with Soviets!
Germany: It's more than agreement. We'll share our technologies with each other, get their resources and army. Here, watch this! They even invaded Iran and made Britain defend in Near East!
Italy: So, we are fine, as long nobody attack American bases.
Japan: Question.
Italy: What is your question, Japan?
Japan: I attacked American base.
Italy: W h a t .
Japan: You told me to.
Italy: How much?
Japan: I did nothing but bombed American bases for three days.
Germany: WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN SENDING YOUR BOMBERS?!!
If the axis/soviet union wins I expect a lot of salt in the comments
Allies nukes go bang
@John Higgins not really, not as many nazi or soviet union supporters on TH-cam
@@satnav9699 very possible that Germany and the soviet union working together are able to develope nukes before the allies
ANTIMATTER THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS there are plenty of Wehraboos and Red Army Fan boys on TH-cam.
@@kurousagi8155 not as many as there are muricans thats for sure
Ah, the classic "Unholy Alliance", always a fun topic!
you have to remember, the Soviets were starving, with dwindling supplies, the US sent extreme amounts of goods, I could recommend a documentary that talks all about how US manufacturing kind of saved the war effort
The Berlin-Moscow Axis 👀😳
“We all know our history”
- Finland’s borders are off; no connection to arctic sea.
If you wanna appear smart and use the semi-colon you should also know 'off' is with two fs
@@ThePussukka yes
I mean, there is so many things wrong in this video that I don't even know where to start.
@@rebalipupu true
it's still crazy to think of how big the british empire is on its own, like one nation holding so many fronts would be unheard of nowadays.
Tech overmatch can do that, if you maintain surprise. We might see it again in our lifetime if one power gets AI before everyone else.
Yup, the british are a dying old man just as they infamously gave this title to the ottoman empire in ww1.
Pretty sure the US could handle that.
Yeah I also think the us could do it and soon China too
@jason200912 how are they a dying old man. What a stupid dumb comment.
I like very much the idea of using your war knowledge to explore alternative history, thanks
it was an unholy alliance, it just wasn't enough space for 2 mad men
Interesting video! Some thoughts of mine: so of course this is a pretty wild what-if and I know it could go either way, but I don't think the Japanese can conquer all of those islands in the Pacific, even less for Midway. During the historical battle, the Japanese already had almost no chance of capturing Midway, with their invasion force being OUTNUMBERED by the American defenders, when an amphibious landing essentially requires a large numerical superiority by several times. Even more considering the Americans knew the Japanese were coming. For an extra handicap, there were a lot of reef around the island, which would mean the Japanese troops would leave their barges a couple of hundred metres away from the coast, and would have to wade for several minutes until they reach land, during the which they'd be sitting ducks to the defenders.
And all of this is assuming they can even win the battle. The Americans had a complete intelligence advantage which they would maintain here, so they would know how many enemies would come, and they wouldn't fight a battle they can't win (and yes, the Americans had advantage in the real battle and they knew it).
Added to this, I don't see a reason the US would send their aircraft carriers into the Atlantic. Unless there's a huge Axis naval victory that tips the scales, the British will still have naval superiority regardless of what the Soviets bring. At best they'll have extra submarines, sure, but you don't use fleet aircraft carriers to hunt submarines (as the British learned the hard way). So they might send more surface combatants to the Atlantic, but the CVs won't be needed at least for several years (until the Axis starts having more capital ships), and by that time the US would already be 3D-printing Essex-class carriers and other warships.
Damn right, couldn't agree more for most of that. As for the British and hunting subs with carriers lol the IDEA was that their aircraft and all the assorted escorting destroyers, frigates and corvettes (along with our OWN submarines of course) would do the hunting part haha, the carriers themselves were meant to just hang back, well-protected and out of harm's way while providing air-cover for the rest of the fleet, much like with a modern carrier strike-group in fact; just very sadly didn't really go according to plan in some cases
The funny thing about aircraft carriers in WW2 is that they were used by Great Britain in a role similar to cargo ships, specialized for aircraft. British aircraft carriers delivered hurricanes from the British Isles, around South Africa to Egypt, Greece and Malta, to fix the chronic aircraft shortage in those theaters.
Midway was actually very closely fought, though I don’t think the Japanese could permanently occupy the islands
@@mint8648 the pacific wouldn't have changed due to the soviets
@@josh-kg1rb soviet on japanese side
Finally. A proper way to do this alternate timeline of WW2.
Me: "I like the concept"
Hitler: "Nein"
This was a very interesting video Binkov! Can’t wait for second part!
Binkov, please do more Alternate History content like this. Detailed world-building based on Alternate History scenarios is something sorely lacking on TH-cam. It's a great area of content for you to expand into.
Realy good vid
This video is awesome!
You need to do more of these. Amazing.
this is the most blessed timeline
The Soviets did in fact join the axis in world war two, they only joined the allies after Germany invaded them.
very nice video
greetings from Chile bro
:D
What a crazy Timeline! I can't even imagine what it would be living in it
Extremely interesting! Regards!
Moral of the story, England exists because of its allies in war, not because of it's ability to wage war.
Blinkov forgot one very important fact… ussr at the year of 1941 was have BIGGest submarine fleet in world… it was one of biggest mistakes of soviet commandment - in real history it was blocked in baltic and black sea but imagine it unleashed)
what if the nazis got their hands on the Great Bob Semple Tank
September 1st 1939, 8 AM. Reports of German armoured formations triumphally parading in Warsaw, Paris, London, Moscow and Washington D.C., and they even got Mussolini to stop speaking for a while.
JagdSemple
it shall be called the "bob elephante"
They would conquer the Milky Way
Interesting video
Funnily enough, at the signing of the pact of steel Stalin wanted to go, but wasn’t invited
What a beautiful team we should have been friends from the start 🇩🇪 🤝 🇷🇺
Just so you know, that flag on the right was used by russian collaborators, including SS. They fought for reich against soviets.
Actually, for this to happened just like that the Germans shouldn't be Nazis to begin with, if they stood as they were in the real life and decided to accept the diplomatic approach with the USSR (highly improbable), the USSR would just let them be against the British and would probably just stuck with imports and exports, and probably with both sides just like other neutral countries. But if the Germans were more sympathetic to the USSR, well, would be something like that but, without the Japanese, the Germans weren't so keen about the alliance with the Japanese, even with Italy, is even possible that the Italians would join the allies or even be neutral, the Mediterranean campaign could never happen in this time line, hell, even the Spanish civil war could have taken another turn, even the French government itself could react differently to the German expansion, same with Poland. They were ok with the Nazis because they thought they would just fight the Soviets, most of them didn't expected an invasion, some of them even welcomed one, imagine if the Germans weren't as they were and somehow were sympathetic to the Soviets? Would be a whole lot of a different war.
Nazbol gang rise up
this is so cool, Alexa, play Fuera Sionista
GANG!
What's Nazbol?
@@PhilipCunningham1788 google help u
That's a freaking weird friendship, or abusive relationship if i might say
I think you completely underestimate the US in the Pacific at that time Midway would still be a u.s. victory because they sent three carriers compared to the Japanese 6
I think soviet will help Japan.
@@gamepify2362 Did the Soviets have any carriers? Their Navy was pretty limited.
Soviet Union natural resources was more than the USA and had 240 million people compare 160 million USA population ..
German technology and Soviet Union natural resources would be unstoppable.
There wasn't enough food and oil for both Europe and the USSR, this scenario requires magic to happen.
Oh! I know! The US sells them oil and food! I mean even despite desperately trying to make it not political and possibly literal suicide to join the war on Britain's side.
I gotta say the US losing the battle of Midway seems unlikely. They had intel on the Japanese invasion so they probably would have been as prepared as they needed to be
I don’t think Pearl Harbor would not happend
@@thesovietonion7399 lmao thanks but who asked about Pearl harbour
@@mustang5132 me
Ya let me down on this one, Binkov. I listen every day. I've read a ton of books on this war, from all sides.
You know it’s interesting to look at a possible alliance between Germany and Russia because even Hitler hated the communists and the Soviet Union, many in the high command still saw the practicalities in aligning with the Soviets because for one the soviets after the invasion of Poland still traded with Germany (until Barbarossa) which gave the Germans critical supplies and many many of their foreign policy advisors thought that they could join together and gut the British empire.
This timeline is looking supsiciously like Orwell's three superstate world of 1984...
In 1984, the “three superpowers” don’t exist, INGSOC only controls England and just lies about the rest of the world.
@@rangarolls6018 it isn't confirmed, only hinted
wat
@@lucasterrasemnomezuado3785 It is never actually hinted that ingsoc only controls the UK though.
German/Soviet allied? gg
AxiSoviet:ha! Ur ground force are no match!
Allies:yea... Ur Navy sucks
AxiSoviet:we know... So...
Allies:yea........
Well its a stalemate, Allies don't have an army to conquer the axis, and Axis doesn't have navy to invade Allies
I also heard that Hitler offered the Soviets India when Britain was defeated in exchange for the Soviets dropping their demands in Eastern Europe and the Middle East (I knew of Eastern Europe but not the Middle East). I also didn't know that Japan would have to give South Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, Sakhalin I understand but why the Kuril Islands?
Also I think Japan wouldn't attack Pearl Harbor because wouldn't Japan get the supplies that they need from the Soviets making the war in the Pacific unnecessary?
I think it would be amazing for both sides to have joined the axis, the Russian could provide the man power and resources and they both could combine technology, and Italy could also do better with more resources from the ussr
Major problem with this video:
The Japanese never would have struck Pearl Harbor because the decision to do so was reached after the Japanese were crushed at Khalkin Gol by the Soviets. Since I’m out scenario, the Soviets and the Empire of Japan are allies, there would be no need for Japan to redirect its attention to naval supremacy and attack Pearl Harbor. US involvement would likely be a nonfactor in this scenario unless the territorial integrity of the Americas faced imminent threat.
agreed, additionally, the main reason the Japanese chose to strike the US was due to the US oil embargo strangling the Japanese economy. If they are able to import oil from the soviets they would see no reason to strike the US. Plus, with extra gains in China and the French ports in Vietnam, they would easily be able to go around the Philippines to take the Dutch East Indies and the Various British holdings in the region.
Not necessarily. Japan was still looking to expand in South-East-Asia and still saw the US as the biggest threat against them and still would've thought best way to go about with them is to try to paralyze them at their home base so to say before the war even started. Yeah Pearl Harbor might've not happaned at the exact same time but Japan's geopolitic realities were still otherwise the same despite Khalkin Gol not happening.
I thought the main reason the Japanese attacked the states was to do with controlling resources in south east asia ( particularly oil fields in the then Dutch east indies ) , and american fuel sanctions as a result ...?
So even if they redirected their troops away from russian border ,they still needed naval dominance to ensure fuel supplies to Japanese home islands ..
would japan invade philippines without in need of oil? if not they might have remain neutral until usa decide to back up chinese
If the British were left alone to face the entire Axis plus the Soviets, the Americans would simply have to intervene. Isolationism aside, a German-Soviet alliance after the fall of France was simply far too dangerous for the US. The Axis couldn’t have hoped to invade Britain in the short term, but given 5-10 years with enough resources and gradual attrition of the Royal Navy, a Channel invasion became more and more feasible. That would’ve left the United States very, very alone against two fledgling superpowers. More than that, they depended on the British to help counterbalance the Japanese in the Pacific to defend their own interests. The Americans simply couldn’t afford to ignore the rest of the world.
After germanys defeat in the Battle of Britain in 1940 one wonders how smart the naziz was to open another front to fight on when they couldn't ever secure the first one...
In early 1940 the British and French governments requested right of passage through Norway and Sweden to send an army to fight the Soviets during their invasion of Finland. Their requests were refused. If not, Britain and France would have been at war with both Germany and the Soviet Union.
Alternative history like this can be a lot of fun to consider. I would like to see more of these, Commissar.
And when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer.
Great video, but i spotted one mistake, you talked about how germany would conquer malta with ariborne troops. But after the airborne invasion of greek with heavy casulties, hitler didnt want to do air invasions anymore. So they likely would have used marine troops.
still great video
The short answer: the world would’ve been screwed
Lol NO!!!
@@ForAmerica4747 lol yes soviet could give oil to Japan so no pearl harbor
Ok some of y'all are way too enthused about a theoretical axis victory.
It depends on what you call a victory. Britain wouldn't fall but goodluck invading continental Europe while facing the entire Wehrmacht.
@@maarten9272 don't forget. The USA And UK had far superior artillery an airforces an Navies compared to nazi germany,s. And also America had a Huge population which would also mean a Very Large Army. And the British Military, yes not as big as America,s but still pretty big an well trained an they had their global empire. And also the nation's the nazi scum controlled like France Italy an Poland had all their resistance groups which harassed germany an slowed em down a bit. So even if we did face the whole germany army, we still had the Edges against em. I mean, even the portions of the German army they did send against us were still pretty big but we managed to win cause we had the edge in Navy. Artillery an Airforce. Also germany didn't have the long range Airpower to hit us an weaken our power. But we had the long range Airpower to do that to them.
@@seanmager1168 80% of the Wehrmacht was stuck in the USSR. Good luck with D-day when 100+ German divisions await your arrival. Not to mention all the heavy industry that would switch from tanks and guns to anti air and fighter planes.
Again the allies were stronger by 1942, but without the soviets D-day would have turned into just another Dieppe raid.
@@seanmager1168 I suppose a few nuclear bombs would force a (perhaps conditional) surrender though.
@@maarten9272 Dont take this the wrong way Please. But D-Day still Couldve happened. Also remember the UK an the USA Had far Superior Planes an Pilots an Could make Planes Faster then Nazi Germany. As Germany didn't Really fully recover from its WW1 Loss an also, mosta the Nazi's didn't really have the Proper skills an Power they always believed they did to Do all they wanted. Also, If the Americans Needed, they could've Just doubled or tripled the amount of Soldiers they woulvde needed had the soviets not been involved. As America did have the HUGE Population Needed to Have More Troopers/Troops/Soldiers. An also, Italy was still Europe's soft under belly an also we still Couldve Taken that Out which would've weakened Germany a bit. But ultimately Don't forget, America and England had the Edge in Artillery an Airforce an Navy an all these Wouldve Majorly Contributed To D-Day still succeeding. Yes it may have taken longer to pull Off an Win but it still could be done. An also, We Couldve USed our Airforces to also weaken an soften up a Bit the germans at D-Day an if there were More germans there, They would've been Probably Easier targets. So No offense But it don't really matter of the percentage of Germans on Western Or Eastern Front. As we had All we needed To Really Hurt em Hard an also With the resistance Helping us, they could've Done some things to Slow down the germans. As in actual history, There would've been More german defenders on the D-Day beaches but the resistance an Our Airforces hitting em made it harder for them to bring more forces to D-Day an if the war lasted Longer an We managed to get our M46's to fight the germans an if the British Made More Comets an Got their Centurions to fight the germans, that would've also helped. Im not saying the soviets didn't do their part, Im jus saying even Without them, The USA an UK An the resistance groups an the British Empire all combined would've have eventually Defeated the german army. an also, If more time passed, I imagine we also would've Used Some A-Bombs on the Nazi scum. And last, Remember we had the Long range Power to hit Germany an Germany couldn't reach the USA an The British's air defenses Were Too Strong to Beat.
I doubt Midway would have been taken, even if the battle at sea is lost it likely would be a pyrrhic victory meaning the navy would not be able to help the army attack, Also those islands were rammed with troops they are not falling any time soon.
Naval bombardment
@Вук Тодић Tell that to the Phillipines.
This was actually more likely than people realize, the allies were planning on bombing the azeri oil fields in '40 so Germany wouldn't continue getting access to the oil by buying it from Soviets. Obviously, this would have been interpreted by Stalin as a DOW and the allies would now be in an offensive war against the USSR. Fortunately, this didn't happen, for the same reason why the allies didn't declare war on the USSR after Stalin invaded Poland, because the allies didn't want to fight both Hitler and Stalin at once.
Toss in Neville Chamberlain and you’ve got the Orwell 1984 scenario. Well done 👍🏾
The wet dream of every HOI IV player.
Next up: What if German & the Allies teamed up and fought the Soviets?
Or how about: What if the whole world teamed up against the USA during World War 2?
Or what if Japan attacked the Soviets with Germany instead of Pearl Harbor in 1941?
The third option was possible but since Japan focus on China and other southeast Asia countries. the USSR soldiers near Japan fighted the germans bc they know that japan won't attack USSR
And for me Japan has no Use of being an Axis Power because it didn't help Germany to fight soviet union instead invading other countries
The second one is USA would be defeated really easily. With the support of USSR Germany Britain France and many more USA wouldn't stand a chance. In fact Germany alone could defeat USA.
Amazes me that gibraltar is still open.
Closing it in would make the whole mediterranean a peaceful lake for the Axis
Russia and Germany were actually together at the beginning of the war, look it up.
With Italy having oil in 1942 from the Soviets the Med would have been completely different, the majority of Italy's ships and planes sat around doing nothing because they were dependant on Germany for oil who was having shortages themselves. Also the Italians deployed light infantry (even paratroopers) due to a lack of oil to NA instead of the motorized divisions they left in Yugoslavia doing nothing, again because no oil.
No way the Japanese could take all of those additional islands. Especially Midway. The Japanese likely would not have even attempted to take Midway in the first place if it wasn't for the Doolittle Raid; which I assume did not happen in this timeline. Even if they had attempted to take Midway, there's no way they would've been successful. Irl the US defenders outnumbered the prospective landing forces. Not to mention the fact that the Japanese landing force would've had to wade in since Midway is surrounded by shallow reefs just like Tarawa. Even assuming the greater emphasis on Europe in this scenario, there is no way that they US would leave the only American held island between Hawaii and the Japanese Navy vulnerable.
Japanese capabilities were really limited by the lack of natural resources.Now imagine with Soviet resources and possible Soviet technology and maybe air support depending on the location,how it could change the power balance in pacific
In the Japanese's original plan, the US aircraft carriers wouldn't have been around during the invasion, giving the Japanese air supremacy. Also, the Yamato's guns would have probably been the deciding factor in an invasion of Midway.
But in this timeline, I don't know why the US wouldn't have still predicted the Japanese plans and won the battle.
The main reason for the US winning Midway is not the one Hollywood loves to promote. In reality, the US had managed to break the encryption of the Japanese communication system. The US had all the tactical and strategic information it needed to be victorious.
@@ukkev7056 Yet... the US still outproduced Japan massively and their "smaller" Pacific fleet would still outnumber the Japanese. Yamato's guns are just large artillery, I don't see that being decisive compared to an aircraft carrier dropping many more tons of ordinance over a greater range.
Midway would happen, it's too vital of a point in the Pacific, but Japan would probably not rush the operation without the Doolittle Raid and have a much greater chance of victory than they already did. Coral Sea and Port Moresby going in Japan's favor makes sense with US resources more spread out, but there is still room for the US to get lucky at Coral Sea if wartime production runs are increased enough. The Essex-class carriers could still make a massive difference in the Pacific.
I wish this was the real history. A much better world.
Wait you supposed to hate the nazis? What happened?
I sort of feel like if the Soviets were supplying other Axis forces, then Japan might not really go for attacking the United States. To my understanding they largely did this because of the United States stopping the export of oil from the US to Japan. So if they can get that oil from Russia then they'd be able to not risk going to war with Japan and just focus on their invasions throughout the Pacific minus the Philippines. They might even go so far as to start putting some more focus into invading Australia to get access to their resources.
Except they were supplying nazis, including oil, up until and including the day of nazi invasion of the soviet union