I would absolutely love to join but my life is a little too complicated to do that right now. I hope there is another one next year which I will definitely join if there's any openings!
I have an exception for No.4, as my main character and his sister (the secondary character) fight a tiger. My Mac leaps and fights to protect the younger sister, and almost dies, but then his sister kills the tiger after. This is in a series sooooo we will have to wait for the next book to see if the mc fully recoveres. I’ll write “book one” on the cover so that they know
Quality videos with insightful information at that. Most TH-camrs say the same stuff everyone else is saying, just with fresh examples. Jed actually presents fresh INSIGHTS. Insanely valuable stuff.
As someone in the middle of finishing their 4th draft, this is a big help. Only problem I'm facing is that I'm writing a historical fiction, so I can't be too loose or creative with the ending as these events are set in time already and have to align my characters with these events. So you can imagine how difficult it is to land a satisfying character arc with a good ending when history dictates that ending to be somewhat unsatisfactory at times
That makes me think of Rouge One. Yes it’s not historical fiction, but it’s a story set in an already structured timeline. Maybe your characters should have a sense of dread, believing the worse will come, with only one of them insisting there be hope. You can: end the character with hope, have a character whose always hated the hope talk save the Hopeful by sacrificing themself, or have the hope character give up all their faith when they see others lost. With the last one, it provokes emotion in the audience while also moving the other characters.
I've rewritten my ending 4 times on the first draft alone, and I'm finally somewhat happy with my "double loop": the thing they really struggled to do on a small scale in the first chapter, is finally achieved on a large scale in the 35th and last chapter. But also, there's this intergenerational aspect where many years ago, "our side" won the battle but lost the war. This time, they lose the battle (three-quarter crisis) but win the war. I like symmetry like that.
I'm impressed with the way Brandon Sanderson creates a finish for each of the individual Stormlight Archive books. The 'reveal that changes *everything*" that he puts in each book is quite a skill as well.
I’m getting back into writing after a long hiatus, I’ve never finished a first draft of anything so that’s my goal. I’m really optimistic now, your videos have been so inspiring and informative! Thank you!! 🙏
Haven't finished the video yet, but thank you for giving us all this wonderful information! It's really helped me, and surely countless others in their own, special writing journeys.
Omg, this video is perfectly timed. I am currently writing the final climax chapter of my novel, the completion of my protagonist's negative character arc (i only have 5,000 words left, with the book 61,000 words in total), ending with her getting her vengeance and becoming the new tyrant queen. I want to reveal a revelation right at the end of the book, that my protagonist is actually pregnant, with an epilogue chapter of the MC giving birth to a son, who would be the protagonist of a potential sequel novel.
Maybe reveal the pregnancy just a bit earlier? If you do it RIGHT at the end it might come of as a bit BS to the readers like you just tacked it on at the end without putting in any work.
@@mighty_spirit8532 I am right at the point in the chapter, right near the beginning of it, where I could put in some clues and foreshadowing (such as morning sickness) that subtly hints at it, but not show it until the epilogue I did have a lovemaking scene with the now - deceased love interest two chapters prior that sets it up, if I decide to include it
@@unicorntomboy9736 Sounds good, though please give your reader some (dosen't need to be a ton of) time to digest the twist while reading and not after they have finished the book.
@@mighty_spirit8532 It's more so intended to set up a potential sequel, which would feature the son or daughter of the protagonist as the main character. It essentially copies the ending of Star Wars Revenge of the Sith Overall though, the ending is meant to be depressing, cynical and bleak, since it is a grimdark novel
I totally agree with the points about outling; I am on the 3rd draft of my current WIP and it is far more cohesive than previous attempts. I'm now at the point where I can just work on adding subtlety and foreshadowing etc, rather than forcing disconnected, weak plot points together. These videos have been so helpful for me.
This strikes to the heart of the tension between plotters and pantsers. While pantsers may not build the perfectly crafted climax and there can even be some meandering to get to it, overly plotted stories can feel hollow because the protagonist always has plot armor to get to the predictable climax. Not all stories need to end with the destruction of the ring and the fall of Sauron. Sometimes there is value in scouring the Shire.
THE WAY YOU CONDENSED THE CLIMAX AS THE CROSSING POINT OF THE EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL !!! ❤❤ JED!!! thank you, it sounded so simple like that but it was the PERFECT summary for all the thoughts on theme, plot and character that I've been trying to make sense of in my own head.
I personally believe that any book should have some sense of closure by the end, even if it's meant to have sequels. The first method to achieve that, as Jed mentioned, is to treat your first book as a stand alone (giving your MC one main conflict to resolve and create a new one in the next book), but you can also write your plot to give your MC several layers of conflicts from the get go and resolve each one in a different book. I think the most common example of the first method is to tell your MC's struggle to become a leader and then, show his/her struggle as a leader in the next book. An example of the second is Athlea in Robin Hobb's Ship series (and of course spoiler alert. If you haven't read the first book of the trilogy and plan to do so, stop reading here). By the end of Book 1, Athlea manages to become a worthy sailor (something she quickly realize isn't so clear as she first thought) but she still has to recover her family ship and she's still a woman in a world dominated by men. Life is still not going to be easy for her, but Robin Hobb does resolve some of her conflicts by the end of book 1, and I don't think I'm the only one to think that it's important. Honestly, there's nothing more frustrating than reading the last few lines of a book and be thrown a massive "to be continued" at your face. It's good to keep things pending (I mean, it's essential if you're writing a series) but not everything.
I'm probably gonna do my first book with the mc slowly opening up to people and caring about them when before all he cared about was killing demons and getting his revenge. When he finally has the opportunity to do so he has to choose between doing it or saving the person which is the only one dear to him. This person is someone he saved while they were still a kid and he begrudgingly became their guardian/friend. He saves them, but is really frustrated that he couldn't get his revenge and the next opportunity to do so will take decades so while this person is sleeping, he abandons them at some home and becomes the lone hunter once again.
Even tho I am only managing to write fanfictions for mysel, watching your videos allows me to have a bigger scope in regards of writing techniques and ways to tell a story outside of the main path. Thank you very much, Jed Herne!
I've watched alot of your videos now, they feel like a breath of fresh air ! I've seen plenty of videos about how to write/avoid mistakes etc , not alot of them cover some topics I've seen in your videos
This is perfect for my story. I’ll admit that it’s ambitious, as there are quite a few plot threads spread across two, technically three, chronological periods, but I’ve already thought through my climax and am currently typing it. Because of the different win conditions for all the parties involved, neither of the two antagonists are actually killed, but the protag has a (hopefully) emotional moment of development and does defeat both antags, so hopefully it works out well.
So I definitely did a deus ex machina, but that's kind of the point of the first book. He got lucky. My main character's mom tells him that if he thinks he's helpless, he will be, and he interprets that to mean that he'll never be helpless so long as he believes in himself, but ultimately his attempts to walk away from his experiences in the book with confidence in his own agency will fall apart, and he'll need to reorient himself in the sequels. It's paving the way for the "Empire Strikes Back" installment in the story. He's an immature twelve year old who only "won" because the ultimate villain of the series deliberately orchestrated his advantages as a prank on the minor villain of the first book. I see so many stories where the hero beats the villain by pulling a last ditch burst of strength and willpower at the last possible second, and I don't find that satisfying. So many heroes are characterized by this indominable will that seems to just be innate. They got to where they got because they were just more driven than anyone else. I want to tell a story about a character with no natural confidence who feels forced to make himself better because he knows how lucky he was, and he knows he wont get lucky a second time. I want to explore the conflict between him and family members and friends who seem to believe he's stronger than he is. The climax in the first book does at least benefit from the illusion of satisfying character growth. The bad guy IS defeated directly due to the actions of the protagonist, but its kind of like someone pissing off the hulk and dropping him on top of the problem. I THINK I've done everything I need to do to foreshadow the remaining flaws of my protagonist and the tragedies in store for him, but I feel like I'm gonna be in trouble if people miss the fact that the structure of the story is intentional.
I always feel so much better after watching a how-to video here when my imposter syndrome is kicking in. Though I worry a little about cliffhangers, the comment about standalone with series potential hit home. My characters' main goal is complete but there's lots more to do and a new goal on the horizon.
Each video you have created has made me feel more and more like I can create a story worth reading. The first video of yours I watched helped me redirect my approach and shift parts of the narrative to better suit the main conflict. It is hard having a particular idea in mind that does not fit with the rest of the setting especially when it is a part you put a lot of effort into, but after making those changes I feel like my story is in a much better place. Keep doing what you’re doing and thank you.
If you really think about it, a novel that starts with a dark lord destroying a village BECAUSE the main character's family are too good of chefs and ends with a cooking contest between the two can be a decent premise.
Fantastic stuff, Jed! My novel is a worldview change for the protagonist, so I need to think hard about aligning his inner journey with the outer one. Thanks!
In my novel, I basically am making my character "the chosen one" (without prophecies) and him making all this journey to safety with different characters, but with this same old man, as in most epic fantasy novels which normally dies (or does some Gandalf-type shit). In reality, I pan for my story's climax to be in this volcano, where it is revealed my protagonist might not be the chosen one (another dragon egg is found, before it was thought the protagonist's was the first) right after, the main villain finds the group and a big battle commences. At the end, the volcano starts erupting, and the characters start evacuating it. With only the protagonist remaining to fend off the antagonist. But when the protagonist tries leaving, the gandalf figure actually blocks him in, thinking he is sacrificing him to destroy the villain, instead of risking for the villain's escape. So when the volcano erupts, with the side characters thinking the protagonist is dead, I want to build this mental picture of the volcano erupting while the cast in on a ship, furiously rowing away, with the future new protagonist huddling the egg found in the volcano.
@@Second_Son1990 Thank you! I really love this channel because it really makes it easy for people like me to share their ideas, so ever comment is really appreciated!
Great timing! I just finished act 2/3 in my first rewrite, and now I'm approaching the ending of the zero draft again. It's great to hear your thoughts - the ending is the whole point of the story, absolutely!
Well, I'm one of the first! Just wanted to say thanks for all the videos you're putting out! It's definitely helping me create my fantasy novel ("Light and Shadows"), and help me tackle issues I've had with the worldbuilding. :)
Great video. It's awesome to see so many coming out. Sadly I've not had the time to watch them all even lol. My only real negative here is knots are typically done so poorly. I found the Harry Potter Potter books as "effective fizzle" as opposed to knots. At least on most of them. A thread ending should be used to actually build on what is coming and bring more focus and tension.
I think getting the ending in mind is important, for sure. As a pantser, I can easily fall into a flow where I just keep writing. The story get's longer and longer and it's going somewhere, but it's not an ending.
Next video please: 1st Person vs 3rd Person Close vs 3rd Person Omniscient | Combination of both 1st Person and 3rd Person Close Good? how do you make it work?
12:06 Early on, I had this problem. I wanted a series so stories would end unresolved for a sequel. Nowadays, I plan on the first book in my sci-fi series to be stand-alone, with hints of lore and future characters. The protagonist's arc in this book is still resolved.
I think the idea of beginning with the ending in mind is fantastic advice. But, it really requires equal emphasis on planning the lead up to that chosen ending. Your ending isn't worth jack if you don't carefully plan a path that prevents your characters from having access to hijack the story. Case in point: I tried writing the last three chapters of a story once. It was great. Emotionally cathartic and everything. But, I thought I could just freestyle my way up to that ending. I was totally wrong. It quickly became apparent that I had basically made myself the quintessential frustrated Dungeon Master. I had a campaign that I'd come up with and my players (the characters) ignored it completely to go in the opposite direction. Each chapter I wrote was fun and interesting, but it also took me further and further from where I was trying to go. Eventually, I had two choices before me: give up my planned ending, or scrap what I'd written and start over, this time ruling the plot with an iron fist. For now, I've set it aside to work on other things.
Two books/series I have read that leave plot threads hanging well are The Golden Goblet by Eloise Jarvis McGraw (historical fiction) and The Wingfeather Saga by Andrew Peterson (YA fantasy). The first one ends with a promise that the hell the main character has gone through is over forever and things will only get better. The second one ends with the presumed death of the POV character, with a hint that there may be a way to yet save them. The ending of the book I am currently still working on the first draft of (it has been a few months, because, you know, life...) follows the familiar mold of a character more fiercely defending those he loves than himself. The opening scene devolves into a battle for the life of the main character, which he lacks motivation to solve beyond instinctive self-defense. It is others that really brings out the determination in him. The climax (there was a smaller *bang* that resolved the secondary plot earlier) involves the protagonist finally confronting the character who has been trying to ruin his family for the past 80% of the book and soundly beating him before taking an action which sets off the rest of the narrative like a struck tuning fork.
I think a deus-ex-machina can work if it is used to tidy up loose threads after the protagonist's journey is wrapped up, especially if the threads that were created in the first place has already finished their purpose. An example of this could be a minor villain that left the plot before they could be properly dealt with, suddenly having a really bad day on their unearned vacation from being the bad guy.
Man this reminds me of the His Dark Materials series and how the main character wasn't even involved in the final conflict literally just taking a stroll through the underworld while her father is fist fighting an angel
That's a matter of pacing really. Between Climax and "The End" you need to show what the climax has caused, what the pay off is. But you shouldn't drag it, otherwise it feel boring. A nice example for this is, though not a book, the party at the end of Baldur's Gate 3, where you can talk with all the characters that you have met during your journey and hear what has happened to them since the great battle.
There are a ton of factors that could go into it. If it's a sprawling epic fantasy novel that is concerned with themes, the winding down might even require a secondary climax (like the destruction of the Shire in Lord of the Rings after the hobbits return home). But if it's a fast-paced serial action flick in a novel format, maybe it should only take a chapter of winding down, showing the hero ready for new adventures.
It depends. Sometimes it's good to tie some loose ends together, to show the reader how the protagonist lives after the adventure, what he had learned about live. Sometimes a full chapter is needed, sometimes a short epilogue will do it. And sometimes you can use it to tease the sequel, e.g. the surviving villain plotting his next step.
In one of my projects the hero does win by luck. It's part of her plan. She has to fight a superior swordsman, so her idea is to rush in and end the fight in a single moment, then run away. if she fights with her skill she's sure to lose. And after the fight, she has to get out of range since the wound will be fatal, but not conclusive. He'll have time to kill her ten times over before he collapses, so she has to survive his revenge long enough for him to bleed out. And there isn't a lot of room to run..
I know you mentioned the epilogue of Harry Potter toward the end of the video, but I wanted to ask more specifically your take on using an epilogue, period. If I use a prologue at the start of my novel, is it necessary to then mirror that with an epilogue?
So, the planned ending point to the climax of my second book (which I'll be writing for November) has the MC and his best friend working to get through all the traps on the ship that regenerates to disable its core power source before it can fire its magic cannon into the earth and destroy it. At the end, he fights the Antag, is even with him, but has another ally (who was set up as on her way) call for him to cut off the room's shields. He takes a lot of damage to cut off the shields, and the Antag, when about to finish him, is killed by the character who entered the room. But how she killed the antag is a reveal that she is actually a villain that was seen in book 1, and rather than getting rid of the power source, she steals it and then goes to eliminate anyone who stands in her way (leaving the MC alive for reasons later, especially since he recovered by the time she turned her attention to him), and they run her off (or so they think). The final battle wraps up, with them winning, but with a bad taste in their mouth as they prepare to leave this universe and travel to the next. (It's a multiverse portal fantasy)
Eh, I don't know if Harry Potter is a good example. At the time yes, but once you know that anyone BUT Voldermort can kill him, you start to feel like - so, the main bad guy loses just because he wont let someone else do the killing? Wow.-
Why do I get the sense your issue isn't with the story, but with the writer? Voldemort is narcissistic, he has to be the one because of his oversized ego. It's a very human quality. Lazy criticism. She's a good writer. Get over it.
@@magicbuns4868 She is an amazing writer. But knowing that Harry cannot be killed by the big bad makes the stakes a lot smaller. Characters are interesting because they can be hurt. Luke Skywalker lost a hand, Bilbo lost his mind because of the ring. They can be harmed and potentially killed by the main bad guy. Harry, cannot. That doesn't make the books bad, I enjoyed them. It makes them harder to enjoy a second time around. I wont get personal with you back, but I feel what you said to me was unfair.
Anyway, I don't have core conflict. Life doesn't have core conflicts, so it is counterproductive to put it in fiction when it is not needed. I am not planning backwards, since the ending is the final twist for reader to sit, watch the wall and ask himself "wait, what?" and start reading once again.
you talking about point #6, "Don't write a realistic ending. Readers want unrealistic endings." Things rarely all get resolved at the same time in real life
i mean, what if the magic evil wizard likes cooking? the only way to beat them is to make a better pie? then there is the dramatic inner dialogue of the mc. now THAT is captivating 🤣
Everyone has a different method. For me I just dive into the first half of the story with just a rough idea of what the character interactions are like and then start outlining for the end and editing the first half to make everything make sense
I read a book once where the MC literally walked away from the main conflict at the end of the book. A conflict that they had a major hand in causing. Just "screw it, I'm out". A huge letdown because the only reason I completed the book was because I desperately, DESPERATELY, wanted to see the MC die. Preferably in a horrible and painful manner.
My problem is, the core conflict of the first book (in the series of 6 book )is the illusions of Kuasa ( the world of elemental power people) was to be saved by Oliver (my protagonist) from the illusionner destroying it, however in the end we find out that the illusionner was Oliver’s friend and he betrayed him and his companion. Oliver and his friends fight him as Oliver was losing due to huge amount of optical illusions he was conjuring, but then Oliver remembers the advice of his mentor, and then he gets the courage to fight the illusionner and he snaps out of the illusions and throws a huge solar beam that supposedly kills judo. However we later see that Oliver had mistakenly destroyed the very illusions that the antagonist was intending to destroy, so events backfire on him and now power government is looking after him in book 2 and so does the monsters of illusions , becoming real. Is that good?
Olivar destroying the illusion mistakenly seems too random, have the antagonist deceive Olivar into destroying the thing he wasn't meant to destroy, this makes the Antagonist more trickier, clever and dangerous than having Olivar randomly do his bidding. Fun idea: you can make it more interesting by making Olivar the only one with the power to destroy the illusion and the antagonist knows this and tricks him into doing his bidding. BOOM!!
Harry Potter 'great' Epilogue? You mean where Ron & Hermione are more or less randomly paired (despite seemingly no prior interest)- and Harry gets some never seen rando as a wife (despite at least 3 (I think) other on-screen possibilities)? I'm not even a shipper, and that 'happy resolution' threw me off on confusion alone. I'm not saying it wasn't possible or was 'unreasonable'- just why write unresolved plot complications in at the very last second? I didn't really care a lot- just didn't work for me. More questions than 'answers'...
Not resolving the core conflict reminds me of the ending of the Twilight saga in the books. All these cool vampires (omit Bella and Edward) facing off the Volturi (surprisingly interesting antagonist), and then, no. Aro gets cold feet bc of a vision and thank you everyone, we're leaving. The saga was horrible, but that ending was insulting. The movie this time got it better.
So I never liked Jason Mamoa's Aquaman or Brie Larson in Captain Marvel, I think they are both great actors but those movies were so dull for me because they had zero character arc. Both movies start out with super buff, snarky protagonists and they end as super buff, snarky protagonists in extra sparkly suits. But, as you point out Jed, I can see how it's that lack of contrast that makes it feel like there wasn't even an adventure because nothing about them ever changed.
Prime example of a bad ending. Maximum Ride by James Patterson (supposedly). Every book was basically already a different genre and plot, then everything was just made even more completely pointless because the supposed culmination of their efforts was to "save the world", only for it to end anyways in a way that was beyond their control in the first place! Literally the people that made the hybrid kids knew how and when the world was going to end and instead of just telling the protagonists and treating them like people from the getgo, they wasted sooooo much time and resources by sending them on endless wild goosechases.
Robin Hobb is guilty of so much of this, but her series are hailed as some of the greatest. If it sounds like I'm disagreeing with you, I'm not; I hated the Farseer Trilogy Still, it shows how subjective writing can be.
When it comes to the luck thing, like you said, this can still work if handled well, like with everything else. I mean it's realistic too, sometimes in life people just get lucky and succeed. But it shouldn't be overused for sure.
Want me to help you write a great fantasy novel? Apply for my 7-week Fantasy Outlining Bootcamp: bit.ly/bootcamp-cohort-4
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I would absolutely love to join but my life is a little too complicated to do that right now. I hope there is another one next year which I will definitely join if there's any openings!
I have an exception for No.4, as my main character and his sister (the secondary character) fight a tiger. My Mac leaps and fights to protect the younger sister, and almost dies, but then his sister kills the tiger after. This is in a series sooooo we will have to wait for the next book to see if the mc fully recoveres. I’ll write “book one” on the cover so that they know
Bro is rapid firing videos at us and I’m loving it.
Quality videos with insightful information at that. Most TH-camrs say the same stuff everyone else is saying, just with fresh examples. Jed actually presents fresh INSIGHTS. Insanely valuable stuff.
As someone in the middle of finishing their 4th draft, this is a big help.
Only problem I'm facing is that I'm writing a historical fiction, so I can't be too loose or creative with the ending as these events are set in time already and have to align my characters with these events.
So you can imagine how difficult it is to land a satisfying character arc with a good ending when history dictates that ending to be somewhat unsatisfactory at times
That makes me think of Rouge One. Yes it’s not historical fiction, but it’s a story set in an already structured timeline. Maybe your characters should have a sense of dread, believing the worse will come, with only one of them insisting there be hope. You can: end the character with hope, have a character whose always hated the hope talk save the Hopeful by sacrificing themself, or have the hope character give up all their faith when they see others lost. With the last one, it provokes emotion in the audience while also moving the other characters.
I love the flex of your own published books scattered in the background
I've rewritten my ending 4 times on the first draft alone, and I'm finally somewhat happy with my "double loop": the thing they really struggled to do on a small scale in the first chapter, is finally achieved on a large scale in the 35th and last chapter. But also, there's this intergenerational aspect where many years ago, "our side" won the battle but lost the war. This time, they lose the battle (three-quarter crisis) but win the war. I like symmetry like that.
I'm impressed with the way Brandon Sanderson creates a finish for each of the individual Stormlight Archive books. The 'reveal that changes *everything*" that he puts in each book is quite a skill as well.
It's interesting, because the beginning and the ending are the easiest for me, it's the journey between the two that takes time. :)
I’m getting back into writing after a long hiatus, I’ve never finished a first draft of anything so that’s my goal. I’m really optimistic now, your videos have been so inspiring and informative! Thank you!! 🙏
Same
Cool! Don't get stuck watching writing videos instead of actually writing like I did.
So happy to see this channel grow since finding it when he was at 50k glad to see other writers getting value from this guy. Jed my goat fr fr
Haven't finished the video yet, but thank you for giving us all this wonderful information! It's really helped me, and surely countless others in their own, special writing journeys.
"Promise, Progress, Payoff... the three P's."
dude comes in swinging big PPP energy.
Omg, this video is perfectly timed. I am currently writing the final climax chapter of my novel, the completion of my protagonist's negative character arc (i only have 5,000 words left, with the book 61,000 words in total), ending with her getting her vengeance and becoming the new tyrant queen.
I want to reveal a revelation right at the end of the book, that my protagonist is actually pregnant, with an epilogue chapter of the MC giving birth to a son, who would be the protagonist of a potential sequel novel.
Great stuff! Good luck on finishing the book
Maybe reveal the pregnancy just a bit earlier? If you do it RIGHT at the end it might come of as a bit BS to the readers like you just tacked it on at the end without putting in any work.
@@mighty_spirit8532 I am right at the point in the chapter, right near the beginning of it, where I could put in some clues and foreshadowing (such as morning sickness) that subtly hints at it, but not show it until the epilogue
I did have a lovemaking scene with the now - deceased love interest two chapters prior that sets it up, if I decide to include it
@@unicorntomboy9736 Sounds good, though please give your reader some (dosen't need to be a ton of) time to digest the twist while reading and not after they have finished the book.
@@mighty_spirit8532 It's more so intended to set up a potential sequel, which would feature the son or daughter of the protagonist as the main character. It essentially copies the ending of Star Wars Revenge of the Sith
Overall though, the ending is meant to be depressing, cynical and bleak, since it is a grimdark novel
I totally agree with the points about outling; I am on the 3rd draft of my current WIP and it is far more cohesive than previous attempts. I'm now at the point where I can just work on adding subtlety and foreshadowing etc, rather than forcing disconnected, weak plot points together.
These videos have been so helpful for me.
This strikes to the heart of the tension between plotters and pantsers. While pantsers may not build the perfectly crafted climax and there can even be some meandering to get to it, overly plotted stories can feel hollow because the protagonist always has plot armor to get to the predictable climax. Not all stories need to end with the destruction of the ring and the fall of Sauron. Sometimes there is value in scouring the Shire.
I love these moments when Jed gets closer to his books and picks one out. Nice to see this once again, after a while. Shakes things up a bit!
Thank you for making more videos as of late, they always get my writers brain engaged. Quality is always there.
THE WAY YOU CONDENSED THE CLIMAX AS THE CROSSING POINT OF THE EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL !!! ❤❤ JED!!! thank you, it sounded so simple like that but it was the PERFECT summary for all the thoughts on theme, plot and character that I've been trying to make sense of in my own head.
I personally believe that any book should have some sense of closure by the end, even if it's meant to have sequels.
The first method to achieve that, as Jed mentioned, is to treat your first book as a stand alone (giving your MC one main conflict to resolve and create a new one in the next book), but you can also write your plot to give your MC several layers of conflicts from the get go and resolve each one in a different book.
I think the most common example of the first method is to tell your MC's struggle to become a leader and then, show his/her struggle as a leader in the next book.
An example of the second is Athlea in Robin Hobb's Ship series (and of course spoiler alert. If you haven't read the first book of the trilogy and plan to do so, stop reading here).
By the end of Book 1, Athlea manages to become a worthy sailor (something she quickly realize isn't so clear as she first thought) but she still has to recover her family ship and she's still a woman in a world dominated by men. Life is still not going to be easy for her, but Robin Hobb does resolve some of her conflicts by the end of book 1, and I don't think I'm the only one to think that it's important.
Honestly, there's nothing more frustrating than reading the last few lines of a book and be thrown a massive "to be continued" at your face. It's good to keep things pending (I mean, it's essential if you're writing a series) but not everything.
I'm probably gonna do my first book with the mc slowly opening up to people and caring about them when before all he cared about was killing demons and getting his revenge. When he finally has the opportunity to do so he has to choose between doing it or saving the person which is the only one dear to him. This person is someone he saved while they were still a kid and he begrudgingly became their guardian/friend. He saves them, but is really frustrated that he couldn't get his revenge and the next opportunity to do so will take decades so while this person is sleeping, he abandons them at some home and becomes the lone hunter once again.
Even tho I am only managing to write fanfictions for mysel, watching your videos allows me to have a bigger scope in regards of writing techniques and ways to tell a story outside of the main path. Thank you very much, Jed Herne!
Yooooo Northman recognition! That movie was amazing!
I've watched alot of your videos now, they feel like a breath of fresh air ! I've seen plenty of videos about how to write/avoid mistakes etc , not alot of them cover some topics I've seen in your videos
Reloaded at the right time, 30 seconds ago 🙏
vision = ending = your goal = your target = your path = knowing what you're doing
It’s called “sticking the landing” for a reason.
Flight could be awesome, but if it crashes at the end, nothing else matters.
This is perfect for my story.
I’ll admit that it’s ambitious, as there are quite a few plot threads spread across two, technically three, chronological periods, but I’ve already thought through my climax and am currently typing it. Because of the different win conditions for all the parties involved, neither of the two antagonists are actually killed, but the protag has a (hopefully) emotional moment of development and does defeat both antags, so hopefully it works out well.
So I definitely did a deus ex machina, but that's kind of the point of the first book. He got lucky. My main character's mom tells him that if he thinks he's helpless, he will be, and he interprets that to mean that he'll never be helpless so long as he believes in himself, but ultimately his attempts to walk away from his experiences in the book with confidence in his own agency will fall apart, and he'll need to reorient himself in the sequels. It's paving the way for the "Empire Strikes Back" installment in the story. He's an immature twelve year old who only "won" because the ultimate villain of the series deliberately orchestrated his advantages as a prank on the minor villain of the first book.
I see so many stories where the hero beats the villain by pulling a last ditch burst of strength and willpower at the last possible second, and I don't find that satisfying. So many heroes are characterized by this indominable will that seems to just be innate. They got to where they got because they were just more driven than anyone else. I want to tell a story about a character with no natural confidence who feels forced to make himself better because he knows how lucky he was, and he knows he wont get lucky a second time. I want to explore the conflict between him and family members and friends who seem to believe he's stronger than he is.
The climax in the first book does at least benefit from the illusion of satisfying character growth. The bad guy IS defeated directly due to the actions of the protagonist, but its kind of like someone pissing off the hulk and dropping him on top of the problem. I THINK I've done everything I need to do to foreshadow the remaining flaws of my protagonist and the tragedies in store for him, but I feel like I'm gonna be in trouble if people miss the fact that the structure of the story is intentional.
I always feel so much better after watching a how-to video here when my imposter syndrome is kicking in. Though I worry a little about cliffhangers, the comment about standalone with series potential hit home. My characters' main goal is complete but there's lots more to do and a new goal on the horizon.
Each video you have created has made me feel more and more like I can create a story worth reading.
The first video of yours I watched helped me redirect my approach and shift parts of the narrative to better suit the main conflict. It is hard having a particular idea in mind that does not fit with the rest of the setting especially when it is a part you put a lot of effort into, but after making those changes I feel like my story is in a much better place. Keep doing what you’re doing and thank you.
If you really think about it, a novel that starts with a dark lord destroying a village BECAUSE the main character's family are too good of chefs and ends with a cooking contest between the two can be a decent premise.
Fantastic stuff, Jed! My novel is a worldview change for the protagonist, so I need to think hard about aligning his inner journey with the outer one. Thanks!
This was published at the perfect time! I just outlined my climax(es) to my novel's storylines so I am excited to watch!
In my novel, I basically am making my character "the chosen one" (without prophecies) and him making all this journey to safety with different characters, but with this same old man, as in most epic fantasy novels which normally dies (or does some Gandalf-type shit). In reality, I pan for my story's climax to be in this volcano, where it is revealed my protagonist might not be the chosen one (another dragon egg is found, before it was thought the protagonist's was the first) right after, the main villain finds the group and a big battle commences. At the end, the volcano starts erupting, and the characters start evacuating it. With only the protagonist remaining to fend off the antagonist. But when the protagonist tries leaving, the gandalf figure actually blocks him in, thinking he is sacrificing him to destroy the villain, instead of risking for the villain's escape. So when the volcano erupts, with the side characters thinking the protagonist is dead, I want to build this mental picture of the volcano erupting while the cast in on a ship, furiously rowing away, with the future new protagonist huddling the egg found in the volcano.
Oooooh. I like it!
@@Second_Son1990 Thank you! I really love this channel because it really makes it easy for people like me to share their ideas, so ever comment is really appreciated!
Great timing! I just finished act 2/3 in my first rewrite, and now I'm approaching the ending of the zero draft again. It's great to hear your thoughts - the ending is the whole point of the story, absolutely!
Well, I'm one of the first! Just wanted to say thanks for all the videos you're putting out! It's definitely helping me create my fantasy novel ("Light and Shadows"), and help me tackle issues I've had with the worldbuilding. :)
101k subs. That's huge. Congratulations.
my goat is cranking out videos at light speed
Love the tips! What is the small writing device at 12:52? It looks so cool!
Great video. It's awesome to see so many coming out. Sadly I've not had the time to watch them all even lol.
My only real negative here is knots are typically done so poorly. I found the Harry Potter Potter books as "effective fizzle" as opposed to knots. At least on most of them.
A thread ending should be used to actually build on what is coming and bring more focus and tension.
I think getting the ending in mind is important, for sure. As a pantser, I can easily fall into a flow where I just keep writing. The story get's longer and longer and it's going somewhere, but it's not an ending.
Your explanation of the Deus Ex Machina is hugely helpful.
Next video please: 1st Person vs 3rd Person Close vs 3rd Person Omniscient | Combination of both 1st Person and 3rd Person Close Good? how do you make it work?
Thanks for giving so many writing tips.
Watching this stuff feels like Stealing,
Thank you so much Sensei
12:06 Early on, I had this problem. I wanted a series so stories would end unresolved for a sequel. Nowadays, I plan on the first book in my sci-fi series to be stand-alone, with hints of lore and future characters. The protagonist's arc in this book is still resolved.
I think the idea of beginning with the ending in mind is fantastic advice. But, it really requires equal emphasis on planning the lead up to that chosen ending.
Your ending isn't worth jack if you don't carefully plan a path that prevents your characters from having access to hijack the story. Case in point: I tried writing the last three chapters of a story once. It was great. Emotionally cathartic and everything. But, I thought I could just freestyle my way up to that ending. I was totally wrong. It quickly became apparent that I had basically made myself the quintessential frustrated Dungeon Master. I had a campaign that I'd come up with and my players (the characters) ignored it completely to go in the opposite direction. Each chapter I wrote was fun and interesting, but it also took me further and further from where I was trying to go. Eventually, I had two choices before me: give up my planned ending, or scrap what I'd written and start over, this time ruling the plot with an iron fist. For now, I've set it aside to work on other things.
Thank you for these amazing writing videos ❤
Two books/series I have read that leave plot threads hanging well are The Golden Goblet by Eloise Jarvis McGraw (historical fiction) and The Wingfeather Saga by Andrew Peterson (YA fantasy). The first one ends with a promise that the hell the main character has gone through is over forever and things will only get better. The second one ends with the presumed death of the POV character, with a hint that there may be a way to yet save them.
The ending of the book I am currently still working on the first draft of (it has been a few months, because, you know, life...) follows the familiar mold of a character more fiercely defending those he loves than himself. The opening scene devolves into a battle for the life of the main character, which he lacks motivation to solve beyond instinctive self-defense. It is others that really brings out the determination in him. The climax (there was a smaller *bang* that resolved the secondary plot earlier) involves the protagonist finally confronting the character who has been trying to ruin his family for the past 80% of the book and soundly beating him before taking an action which sets off the rest of the narrative like a struck tuning fork.
I think a deus-ex-machina can work if it is used to tidy up loose threads after the protagonist's journey is wrapped up, especially if the threads that were created in the first place has already finished their purpose. An example of this could be a minor villain that left the plot before they could be properly dealt with, suddenly having a really bad day on their unearned vacation from being the bad guy.
ngl the more I listen to you the more I feel this is straight from Sanderson's lectures on TH-cam. 10/0 would recommend those.
Jed's air quotes are Elaine Benes dancing.
Yay, new video is here 🎉
Happi happi happi
4:15 I’d like to say that Across the Broken Stars has one of the best endings to a novel I’ve ever read.
Thanks!
Man this reminds me of the His Dark Materials series and how the main character wasn't even involved in the final conflict literally just taking a stroll through the underworld while her father is fist fighting an angel
Excellent Gordon Ramsey clip. There should be one per video
The cliffhanger segment with the star wars example was perfect. I feel like not enough people realize that's how cliffhangers are done
How close to the end does the climax need to be. Or how long should I make the falling action and resolution
That's a matter of pacing really. Between Climax and "The End" you need to show what the climax has caused, what the pay off is. But you shouldn't drag it, otherwise it feel boring.
A nice example for this is, though not a book, the party at the end of Baldur's Gate 3, where you can talk with all the characters that you have met during your journey and hear what has happened to them since the great battle.
There are a ton of factors that could go into it. If it's a sprawling epic fantasy novel that is concerned with themes, the winding down might even require a secondary climax (like the destruction of the Shire in Lord of the Rings after the hobbits return home). But if it's a fast-paced serial action flick in a novel format, maybe it should only take a chapter of winding down, showing the hero ready for new adventures.
It depends. Sometimes it's good to tie some loose ends together, to show the reader how the protagonist lives after the adventure, what he had learned about live. Sometimes a full chapter is needed, sometimes a short epilogue will do it. And sometimes you can use it to tease the sequel, e.g. the surviving villain plotting his next step.
Hey Jed do you have a video that touches on third person present tense for fantasy? If not what are your thoughts on its usage?
Yeah if the ending is bad, the novel is bad.
Just like my hero academia!
@@Nova11435 or Solo Leveling
@@Pressato eh solo leveling wasnt *that* bad. It just left things a little messy because of his weird time travel shenanigans.
Good Video
FIRST PROBABLY IDK
I LOVE the Northman!!!
In one of my projects the hero does win by luck. It's part of her plan.
She has to fight a superior swordsman, so her idea is to rush in and end the fight in a single moment, then run away. if she fights with her skill she's sure to lose. And after the fight, she has to get out of range since the wound will be fatal, but not conclusive. He'll have time to kill her ten times over before he collapses, so she has to survive his revenge long enough for him to bleed out. And there isn't a lot of room to run..
How do you plan backward from the ending if you’re a pantser?
While I don’t write with an outline, I do write with a plan in my head. I know where my story needs to be in terms of plot and character arcs.
I know you mentioned the epilogue of Harry Potter toward the end of the video, but I wanted to ask more specifically your take on using an epilogue, period. If I use a prologue at the start of my novel, is it necessary to then mirror that with an epilogue?
does anyone know the name of the device that shows up at 12:51? that looks super neat, id like to get one for myself lol
So, the planned ending point to the climax of my second book (which I'll be writing for November) has the MC and his best friend working to get through all the traps on the ship that regenerates to disable its core power source before it can fire its magic cannon into the earth and destroy it. At the end, he fights the Antag, is even with him, but has another ally (who was set up as on her way) call for him to cut off the room's shields.
He takes a lot of damage to cut off the shields, and the Antag, when about to finish him, is killed by the character who entered the room.
But how she killed the antag is a reveal that she is actually a villain that was seen in book 1, and rather than getting rid of the power source, she steals it and then goes to eliminate anyone who stands in her way (leaving the MC alive for reasons later, especially since he recovered by the time she turned her attention to him), and they run her off (or so they think).
The final battle wraps up, with them winning, but with a bad taste in their mouth as they prepare to leave this universe and travel to the next. (It's a multiverse portal fantasy)
ending mistake:
Start video with Game of Thrones S8.
*Instant Subscribe
I like endings where villains are victorious in a way. That’s what I’ll do with my novels.
What was that portable keyboard-screen thing you were typing on? :O
Eh, I don't know if Harry Potter is a good example. At the time yes, but once you know that anyone BUT Voldermort can kill him, you start to feel like - so, the main bad guy loses just because he wont let someone else do the killing? Wow.-
Why do I get the sense your issue isn't with the story, but with the writer?
Voldemort is narcissistic, he has to be the one because of his oversized ego. It's a very human quality.
Lazy criticism. She's a good writer. Get over it.
@@magicbuns4868 She is an amazing writer. But knowing that Harry cannot be killed by the big bad makes the stakes a lot smaller.
Characters are interesting because they can be hurt. Luke Skywalker lost a hand, Bilbo lost his mind because of the ring. They can be harmed and potentially killed by the main bad guy.
Harry, cannot.
That doesn't make the books bad, I enjoyed them. It makes them harder to enjoy a second time around.
I wont get personal with you back, but I feel what you said to me was unfair.
Aaaah, the "amazing story with the bad ending." We all know one, I tend to refer to this as The Mass Effect Effect...
Anyway, I don't have core conflict. Life doesn't have core conflicts, so it is counterproductive to put it in fiction when it is not needed. I am not planning backwards, since the ending is the final twist for reader to sit, watch the wall and ask himself "wait, what?" and start reading once again.
Hey just a quick question , does these things also apply on other ways of telling stories like comics or manga or something else
you talking about point #6, "Don't write a realistic ending. Readers want unrealistic endings."
Things rarely all get resolved at the same time in real life
i mean, what if the magic evil wizard likes cooking? the only way to beat them is to make a better pie? then there is the dramatic inner dialogue of the mc. now THAT is captivating 🤣
Everyone has a different method. For me I just dive into the first half of the story with just a rough idea of what the character interactions are like and then start outlining for the end and editing the first half to make everything make sense
How so you manage writing multiple climaxes for say an ongoing series?
Strictly speaking, "Deus ex machina" is a Latin phrase, but is a translation of a Greek theatrical phrase (Apò mēkhanês theós).
Book 1 city scope conflict
Book 2 national scope conflict
Book 3 world ending conflict
Book 4 internal hemorrhage conflict
Deus ex machina is latin.
Greek equivalent would be: ἀπὸ μηχανῆς θεός (appo maekannes theos)
do you have a video that presents book you wrote ?
1:30 am I losing my mind or does that look exactly the same as a fight from Troy?
I read a book once where the MC literally walked away from the main conflict at the end of the book. A conflict that they had a major hand in causing. Just "screw it, I'm out".
A huge letdown because the only reason I completed the book was because I desperately, DESPERATELY, wanted to see the MC die. Preferably in a horrible and painful manner.
What is that tiny thing you are typing on called? 😮
Bad ending? We call it, what a twist! A poopy twist! 💩
I wish i could join ur bootcamp but I'm a broke college student 😢
My problem is, the core conflict of the first book (in the series of 6 book )is the illusions of Kuasa ( the world of elemental power people) was to be saved by Oliver (my protagonist) from the illusionner destroying it, however in the end we find out that the illusionner was Oliver’s friend and he betrayed him and his companion. Oliver and his friends fight him as Oliver was losing due to huge amount of optical illusions he was conjuring, but then Oliver remembers the advice of his mentor, and then he gets the courage to fight the illusionner and he snaps out of the illusions and throws a huge solar beam that supposedly kills judo. However we later see that Oliver had mistakenly destroyed the very illusions that the antagonist was intending to destroy, so events backfire on him and now power government is looking after him in book 2 and so does the monsters of illusions , becoming real. Is that good?
Olivar destroying the illusion mistakenly seems too random, have the antagonist deceive Olivar into destroying the thing he wasn't meant to destroy, this makes the Antagonist more trickier, clever and dangerous than having Olivar randomly do his bidding.
Fun idea: you can make it more interesting by making Olivar the only one with the power to destroy the illusion and the antagonist knows this and tricks him into doing his bidding. BOOM!!
Harry Potter 'great' Epilogue? You mean where Ron & Hermione are more or less randomly paired (despite seemingly no prior interest)- and Harry gets some never seen rando as a wife (despite at least 3 (I think) other on-screen possibilities)? I'm not even a shipper, and that 'happy resolution' threw me off on confusion alone.
I'm not saying it wasn't possible or was 'unreasonable'- just why write unresolved plot complications in at the very last second?
I didn't really care a lot- just didn't work for me.
More questions than 'answers'...
Not resolving the core conflict reminds me of the ending of the Twilight saga in the books. All these cool vampires (omit Bella and Edward) facing off the Volturi (surprisingly interesting antagonist), and then, no. Aro gets cold feet bc of a vision and thank you everyone, we're leaving. The saga was horrible, but that ending was insulting.
The movie this time got it better.
So I never liked Jason Mamoa's Aquaman or Brie Larson in Captain Marvel, I think they are both great actors but those movies were so dull for me because they had zero character arc. Both movies start out with super buff, snarky protagonists and they end as super buff, snarky protagonists in extra sparkly suits. But, as you point out Jed, I can see how it's that lack of contrast that makes it feel like there wasn't even an adventure because nothing about them ever changed.
Prime example of a bad ending. Maximum Ride by James Patterson (supposedly). Every book was basically already a different genre and plot, then everything was just made even more completely pointless because the supposed culmination of their efforts was to "save the world", only for it to end anyways in a way that was beyond their control in the first place! Literally the people that made the hybrid kids knew how and when the world was going to end and instead of just telling the protagonists and treating them like people from the getgo, they wasted sooooo much time and resources by sending them on endless wild goosechases.
Tip four makes me think of avenger endgame
The rat clicking the buttons to bring ant man back
Soap Operas have no ending. Modern entertainment embraces the never ending soap opera form of entertainment. We're screwed.
This is why The Never Ending Story takes the top spot 😋
"Not resolving the core conflict."
Ah, yes. Otherwise known as "the main reason why some people say that MHA's ending was horrible".
Robin Hobb is guilty of so much of this, but her series are hailed as some of the greatest. If it sounds like I'm disagreeing with you, I'm not; I hated the Farseer Trilogy
Still, it shows how subjective writing can be.
you lowkey look like roddy from flushed away, no offense whatsoever
I'm pretty sure Deus ex is Latin, not greek
When it comes to the luck thing, like you said, this can still work if handled well, like with everything else. I mean it's realistic too, sometimes in life people just get lucky and succeed. But it shouldn't be overused for sure.