Thank You Mr. Angelo! Im retired & turning every week. I am accumulating pieces as you mentioned & for the Christmas season am hoping to sell my pieces. Your guidance has given me a great starting point! Thank you for being a down to earth Teacher!
Outstanding information. I applied your pricing formula of inches in diameter x inches in height x 2.5 to several of my bowls and it hit my value proposition dead on. Now I have a basic pricing tool to which I will add a surcharge for premium materials or extra finishing time . Best of all, I can use you as my industry expert reference source. Thanks Sam Bill at Turning Mayhem in Ontario Canada
Still new to wood turning. At this point I think I've turned out twenty bowls, six of which have been gifted to friends and relatives. Very satisfying. I had my wife show a few off at her prayer/crafting group and the response was encouraging. Showed a few to a local gift shop who would take 40% off whatever I want to price them at. I was surprised at the prices in her shop, but apparently items move regularly. People are so willing to part with their money it seems, probably inversely related to the effort put in and the need for recompense. I just love turning. But if I want more tools and perhaps a proper lathe someday, then it will have to pay for itself somehow. I get a sense that the pinnacle of sale-ability is something which is unique, beautiful, and functional and that a combination of any two of those will maximize the price:effort:cost formula. Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts.
Pricing is the hardest part! Great video Sam, I enjoyed hearing your thoughts and approach to a difficult subject. Hope you had a wonderful Christmas this year, and have a safe and happy New Year
I just watched this, for the forth time. Very, very helpful video, Sam. We sell a number of lidded boxes and a ton of pens. I think a lot of it has to do with folks not knowing what it took to make a bowl, or vessel. We also have found that bottle stoppers, ice cream scoops, and other kitchen ware sell fairly well. I believe this is do to the uniqueness of the item. Again, thanks for the video.
I am adding this to help explain more about the information I gave in the cutting board segment: Sorry I did not provide that. I looked at the actual excel file and that number is imbedded as a mathematical formula. I did that file 15 years ago and forgot how I did it. BUT it is easy to figure out. Lets say (to keep it simple) your cutting board is 10" by 10" before you create a formula of any kind just estimate the price of a cutting board that big. $50 or $500. I would think it would be closer to $50. so lets just put in that arbitrary number. 10 x 10 x (100) x 2=$200. Ok if 2 is the number then that won't work. To get to $50 the number must be .5. IF you think that is a fair price then apply that arbitrary number to all your boards. Like 15 x 15 x .5 = $112 I also had a separate formula for butcher black cutting boards as they are more time consuming to make. Hope this helps. Sam
Hi Sam, I really like your way of explaining things. I have been turning for a few years and started selling my bowls at markets here in Newcastle, Australia, last year. My formula is the volume of the disc that would contain the bowl times $0.0165c/cc. That is Radius x radius x height (all in cm) x 3.142 x 0.0165 and I round up to the nearest $5. If I buy the wood I add that cost on. That makes my price for your US$100 bowl A$85. I figure that is fair enough given our respective profiles in the wood turning community. Keep up your great work. Cheers, Steve
Like you were saying about the hours. I sometimes get wrapped up in the thought well how many hours did I spend say sanding and my price needs to go up otherwise I find out I paid myself $5 an hour. Also my experiences with people in my part of the country don't have a clue what it took to make a project. But they will go buy MDF furniture from a store and not ask questions.
I appreciate people who sell and can sell. I for one found it exhausting to sell my hobby. In fact, it became a job... and then people don't want to pay you for what you've put into it... so it just stock piles. I have found relief in my life by making things for fun again. And I gift them away... I might sell something if I have it on hand. But I don't take orders anymore. I do have a regular job... maybe if I retire (and most people know preachers never retire)... I might make it on as job.
Jon, Yep, selling is NO fun. I agree totally with where you are coming from. I have been giving more stuff away lately. It is a nice feeling. And you are right about not getting paid for the work we put in.....Sam
Hello sir.....I am from India..plz help me.. I want to start this business...but I can't understand where will I marketing this product.. Plz say something
Hi Sam. I really appreciate your videos. I simplified the pricing problem for my basic salad bowls. Simply take a tape measure ( a cloth one works best ) but can be done with a metal one. Measure from lip around the bottom to the other side lip. Put what ever dollar price your comfortable with and multiply inches by dollars. This system takes in account for the depth and width of the bowl every time. Extra decorations may add a little extra. Of course this does not work for art, or special pieces. I hope this helps some of the viewers out there.
there has to be an added part to the bowl pricing formula. If you sell in Carmel, Calif, then you can multiply the total by 2 or more. If you live where I live, you divide the total by 4 or 5. The best formula is to get what you can for it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and only experience will tell you what those in your area are willing to pay. Etsy and websites add something to sell-ability of an item, but there is nothing like actually seeing something in person, like the burl bowl. Seeing a picture and picking it up and seeing how the light refects off the surface are 2 different experiences. For a year, I tried to sell my art in my city at a co-op and barely was able to pay the rent on my little spot. Put those same items in a coastal art city and I would have made some major cash. So knowing your market is key. I have just started turning bowls, went on ebay and there are a LOT of bowls for sale and the prices are nowhere this formula. So I'm not sure what I will do with the results. I'm not in this to make money at it (I have a cabinet shop). What I will do with the results of my labors is yet to be determined. There are craft fairs here but for the price of the booth, you have to sell a lot of $15 bowls to pay for it, plus the time sitting out in the sun getting skin cancer as to be figured in....
Thanks very much for some great comments. I do agree totally with everything you say. The market you are in is everything. I really consider only my own View of selling items which is mostly on the Internet and occasionally went people coming to my shop. The market in Wyoming is pretty bleak as compared to other parts of the country. Selling is really difficult. And part of that is we are developing more and more wood turners around the country and the world. we're all trying to sell stuff. Thanks again Sam
Thanks Sam for another video. It is a thorny subject I take on board you points about regularly turned items, I do agree the one more elaborate/complicated pieces to make get ting to a price that satisfies the maker and the purchaser is shot in the dark. I spent a lot of my time making it, but I can't hold on to everything dilemma. Have a good Christmas. Archie Scott (Scotland)
Couldn't agree more with your statement that we're woodturners, not salesmen. I have literally boxes of turnings that are completely done, but haven't sold hardly anything. I'd like somebody to buy & appreciate some of what I've made, but I don't like selling, I'm not good at selling, and I don't have a good demeanor for selling. On the other hand, what good is it having half a dozen boxes full of turnings stacked together in my basement?
Thank you Sam I do segmented turning and curious about pricing. I like your calculation that seems perfect after all I am a woodworker not a sales person. You do beautiful work. Cal
Very informative Sam! Love your work! Learned a lot of great educational tips watching your videos! For a multiplier of 2.5 what would you think is a fair multiplier for Acrylic cast bowls since resin is so expensive! I’ve been turning cast Wood burl / resin bowls and think a multiplier of 2.5 is way to low? Any thoughts? Thanks and keep on turning!!!
I agree. I like it for a flat breadboard or a simple bowl shape. For a bowl with spectacular burl grain I just don't think about using it. Or something very special or hard to turn like cast resin. Another point is that turning 20 or 30 bowls, it is important to objectively place a price on the bowls. But if you make hollow forms and they are all different, then you just have to think about what price someone will pay. Sam
Sam, You said you had a formula for pricing cutting boards, what is the amount you multiply after you get the width and length? Enjoy watching your stuff
I am not sure. I checked and it is a math equation I did 15 years ago. I looked and really can't figure it out. Plus I have 5 pricing levels. I can change prices by looking at the next column. But It looks like it would be around .3 or .35. It all comes down to what you think is a good price. Sam
Thanks for the comment, no, I am pretty much using this as a general rule of thumb for basic bowls. If the grain and figure is more stunning than I adjust the price upward Sam.
Really interesting! I don't sell anything as it's just an engaging hobby to me, but I think if I did, My formula factors would be (a) DIMENSIONS (b) Cost of raw material / stock & (c) TIME. I would leave sentiment or beauty out of it, as I know from working in other fields, your best effort to create something beautiful is always expected.
Thanks for your advice, I am at the point where I have a lot of things I have made and I'm running out of room, I don't intend to stop making them as I enjoy the craft, so I have to begin selling some of them, my thoughts are with going to craft fiars to sell them, is this the best place to sell them?? thanks . Ron
Ron, I think selling on several different platforms is a good idea. I sell most stuff on ETSY. I have just stopped doing craft fairs-too much work for this old guy. But I think you can make some good money doing craft fairs. We are just in such a remote location, it is not beneficial for use. Sam
That is a really good question. The short answer is I don’t. I do pay for Wood but how much you can make from a particular piece of wood is the issue. I am a thread chaser. So usually I must pay for this sort of wood. But it is small and I make boxes from that Wood In can use make OK money from it. But again that’s a really good question. Thanks, Sam.
Simple designs are sometimes more desirable to collectors, but that being said, I believe that 'just because' the wood wasn't expensive, doesn't mean the finished piece isn't valuable. You want to be competitive, but also get the art out there. I just wish more craftsmen would use the old wood that's being sent to the landfill in Florida.
hello Sam, thank you for your time and expertise. I am a carpenter who is a beginning woodturner and I find your videos invaluable. with regards to pricing I feel like your pricing seemed extremely fair and maybe even a little low. the way I look at it that urn may have taken 6 hours to make but it took thirty years of woodturning to be able to make it in six hours. how do you put a price on that!
Gary That is a really interesting question. I believe.....the answer is Not much. Anyone outside the turning community really does not know me, I am guessing. But they may follow me on Pinterest or ETSY and buy my stuff there. But all that has taken a lot of work----getting my name out there. Sam
Mostly this depends on--- if the repair or crack or fault in the wood will end up attractive or pleasing. I will fill in the cracks or checks but occasionally I will toss a piece. Or I will try to turn out the crack and eliminate it if i can. Sam
Hi! Love your work. To add an easy formulae to the pricing mix ... Cost of materials + Your hourly labour (times the amount of hours) + 10% for overhead percentage (electrical usage / wear-an-tear and odds) + 30% for intrinsic value. Example (whatever the product): 10$ + 54$ + 6$ + 21$ = 91$ After paying yourself, you should have at least another 30% in your pocket. And, remember, these are 'one-off' unique pieces ... ! They'll never get another one 'exactly' the same anywhere in the world ... !!! To add more to the defence; these are 'not' pieces of cheap crap churned out of a machine by the thousands from China ... !!! There's a very large portion of the population that are very happy to pay good money for quality ... you and many other great woodturners produce it. Simply; protect your work and profession through your price.
I think that the more exact and detailed the formula for determining the price we charge is a good thing. However when I am in my shop working on various projects I seldom complete one in a specific time frame without working on 3 or 4 other projects. Sometimes I put a project away for months waiting for a piece to dry for example. I feel for me this would be a bookkeeping nightmare. I do have some idea how long I work on something and the materials I use. Bottom line, for me if I make a box or bowl or pen I pretty much know how much to charge. I used to make $5000 china cabinets or furniture. This was a different story. Then I did sit down and truly estimate time/materials/profit. Finally-If I make a simple 16" walnut salad bowl and charge $800, it will never sell. If I try to sell it for $5 It will sell but I will lose my shirt. So "what the market will bear" is for me a good way to go. Thanks Sam
From an industrial background quoting is very mechanical. Time, materials, margin. Art's much more subjective and the same $50 material can be $100 or $1000 in the right niche. Also I'd pay $55 for the bowl :)
Pieter Some people calls these small pieces a "token urn" A small amount of ashes are placed in them and the remainder of the ashes are spread out some place. I just sold a lady two smaller urns. Sam
Drew I have a simple calculation for my cutting boards Price based on the volume; simply the length multiplied by the width multiplied by the thickness. I would say it is based on what is reasonable for the price of the cutting board. So if you have a cutting board that is 12" x 12" x 1" thick and determine the price to be $40 for example. Use that as the base Price for the rest of your cutting boards. So a cutting board twice that large would be $80. Keep in mind the price you arrive at must be reasonable and it can't be too low. This is nice when you are selling at a craft fair and someone ask you how you arrive at your prices you can simply refer to a list of prices based on the size of your cutting board. Hope this helps Sam
I have always charged $30 per hour. And just customized the hours for each student. If you want 2 hours or 3 days.... But being in Billings I might get more than one student at a time. So I am rethinking the amount I charge. Sam
I think I missed something... for the cutting board formula I took you to say LENGTH*WIDTH=price. Where is the arbitrary figure in the formula? In your stock example you said "14x16= price of $77. 14 times 16 does not equal 77. What did I miss? I played it back numerous times but still can't find the balance of that formula. I sell primarily cutting boards and am very interested in this.
Sorry I did not provide that. I looked at the actual excel file and that number is imbedded as a mathematical formula. I did that file 15 years ago and forgot how I did it. BUT it is easy to figure out. Lets say (to keep it simple) your cutting board is 10" by 10" before you create a formula of any kind just estimate the price of a cutting board that big. $50 or $500. I would think it would be closer to $50. so lets just put in that arbitrary number. 10 x 10 x (100) x 2=$200. Ok if 2 is the number then that won't work. To get to $50 the number must be .5. IF you think that is a fair price then apply that arbitrary number to all your boards. Like 15 x 15 x .5 = $112 I also had a separate formula for butcher black cutting boards as they are more time consuming to make. Hope this helps. Sam
I like to price my stuff on my time and money invested plus whatever I think it's worth and if someone sells something similar at a price I sometimes match it or beat it
Really all over. It depends mostly on what I need it for. Some I must buy- like my thread chasing wood. But if I can get a free log and turn wet wood, that is the best. Sam
burl bowl is at least worth $350.00 Burl wood is not just every where you could sell the block of wood for 100.00 I have thought about just selling wood prob make more money less work
I assume you are referring to my mathematical equation height x diameter x 2.5. The 2.5 number is arbitrary in that I could have selected any number. First, it makes pricing uniform on all pieces similar to this one that I make. I could have given the "arbitrary" number 8. So a 2" tall x 10" wide bowl multiplied by 8 would be priced at $160. So I figure out objectively what that arbitrary number should be and I apply it to all basic said bowls. Using the number 8 the bowl is priced way too high. At 2.5 the cost is $50. That makes more sense. I can always use a slightly different number if those bowls DON'T sell or sell too easily. And it is so difficult to measure hydrogen content. Sam
To find how much to charge. Shop overhead ( lights, heating & cooling, Taxes, insurance,maintenance on tools and vehicial). What it cost to run the shop each day. Hourly wage or how much do you want to make per year? Cost of materials because you have to buy wood, sandpaper, glue, and finish.Also Profit that can buy new tools, expand the shop, good vehicle , ect. So it comes to X = shop overhead + Y=wages + Z= materials + Profit. This all works out to what you have to charge per hour + hours to make item. This will tell you what the item selling price will be. There are two things that will send a woodworkers soul to hell. Working dull tools and not charging enough.
Thanks for making the video. As for the formula on the cutting boards, what does that look like? In the case of the 14x16 cutting board, what gets it to $77? Is there a straight multiplier on that just like in the bowls? (~$.343 in this case)
Yes, I am not sure what I came up with. But it is that arbitrary number that I decide on. If it seems like too much or too little, I change it then keep it the same for all my boards. Sam
Selling is one thing, accounting for it in your taxes is another. Of course you may not declare the sales, but if you do then you might as well claim your expenses. So then you declare a business and the expenses keep mounting. Not easy to TURN a profit.
Jack, I do agree that making a profit working with wood is not easy. It must be more than just a labor of love. as craftsman or artists we may create beautiful things. But usually we don't have a personality to be very businesslike. That is me in a nutshell. I'm not good at selling and I don't like to sell, But I must. Thanks for watching my video talk to you later Sam
Sorry to bug you again. You were talking about craft shows that you sell at. I enquired about the one in our area and I was told that I have to get on a list. One guy told me it was a year later that they called him. I was so bummed about that I didn't even bother.
Another very informative video Sam, many thanks. Many times I use the formula Material X 2 + 20% = Price. It is quite close to your formula. I think I will consider both depending of the cost of material etc. Happy New Year. Regards Brian
Interesting video, though it is all very subjective depending on your end-goal. For me from a business point of view prior to turning something, I take the cost of the wood, the amount of time it takes me and then pay myself a "wage" based on that. I.E. if the wood is easy to come by, I could do it for the price of the timber, plus the time it took me to make (2 hours at $30 an hour) that'd make the price of the piece $60. (The cost of equipment included within the labour). If the wood was hard to come by, I charge the "finders fee" of $20 per hour + shipping (if applicable) + cost of wood / how many pieces I can make out of it and the charge the "labour" rate. If I'm doing something for fun or something really out there, I'd just charge the cost of the timber, everything else at my expense as it was for "professional development".
How much do you sell? Not to knock your work, it's beautiful but $75 bucks for a cutting board? I know what the wood cost. I know what kind of time goes into making some of these objects. But I can't for the life of me see anyone paying that kind of money unless it's from a world class artist. But hey more power to you if you can get it.
I think the best thing for you to do is to just search the cost of cutting boards. This is something I spend time doing for comparing anything I sell. My boards are always around 2 inches thick. This is important to prevent any warping. I probably made my first boards 25 or 30 years ago. I would make batches of 30 to 50 at a time. I would sell them mostly at craft shows. So over the years I estimate I have sold 400-500 boards. I have about 15 on hand right now. I have also made a few custom cutting boards for hunters etc that are very large with a groove to catch drippings. Thanks very much. Sam
I think you need to explain what your factor of 2.5 represents.To attempt to explain this to someone as you mentioned will not be helpful. At the end of the day it's what the market will bear. Understand that there are unique pieces, time involved and nuances with different woods. I think it depends on where you live and what you are trying to sell as well as what the local competition is doing.
Dan, This approach for me started with breadboards. I have made probably 500..... This was a way I could simply measure the board--- length x width x thickness and multiply that by an arbitrary number that would set the price in a reasonable range. using the "2.5" number as an example, my prices were always consistent. I have a spread sheet with 5 or 6 columns each with a different number. I used different numbers for my chopping block boards which required more labor. This way, if a customer asked why I was charging this price for a particular breadboard, I had a good, objective explanation. Now, this approach applies to bowls only if the wood is pretty basic and perhaps for food servers. As you mentioned if the wood or grain is spectacular or maybe more valuable, this approach does not work. It is indeed what the market will bear. Sam
great video Sam. Can you look at my channel? I'm just starting with video but have been turning a while on 10" lathe now I have a 22" lathe. I will have more to come soon.
You had me interested until you just kept rattling on!!! You touched 3 bowls, two lidded boxes and 2 cutting boards and didn't mention a single thing about price!! Really it was more hey look what I made it's pretty!!! Just get to the point
Very little information and almost almost all of it was arbitrary. Video could have been about one minute long without losing anything. Obviously a very talented turner, but pricing strategies don't seem to be a strong point.
Basic speach and presentation tip quit telling us what your going to tell us and just get to the point keep your videos organized like an essay intro,body,conclusion intro only being like 15 seconds then just get to the point.
Duane, thanks for the feedback. You may be totally correct in your analysis. I wanted to compare my video to one of yours. I went to your channel and could not find one. Please send me a link to your work. I am sure it is excellent. Thanks Again Sam
WYOMINGWOODTURNER Hi I saw you replied unfortunately I do not have a channel of my own I am young and in the process of booting up a small side business doing wood projects. There for I use videos like your to get information and cross examine my own conclusions. My input on your videos comes from watching other videos and speech and presentation class in school. I replied with the tip because you have really helpful info but as I explained in my prior post you could shorten them and accomplish the same message. I do appreciate what you do thanks.
Thank You Mr. Angelo! Im retired & turning every week. I am accumulating pieces as you mentioned & for the Christmas season am hoping to sell my pieces. Your guidance has given me a great starting point! Thank you for being a down to earth Teacher!
Outstanding information. I applied your pricing formula of inches in diameter x inches in height x 2.5 to several of my bowls and it hit my value proposition dead on. Now I have a basic pricing tool to which I will add a surcharge for premium materials or extra finishing time . Best of all, I can use you as my industry expert reference source. Thanks Sam
Bill at Turning Mayhem in Ontario Canada
Sam, thanks for taking the time to share your experience. That was a great video!
Thanks for the tips, advice and all the effort you put into educating woodturners Sam!
Another gem from a generous man thanks Sam we really appreciate your help.
This is another great video Sam, Thank you again for doing this for all of us.
Still new to wood turning. At this point I think I've turned out twenty bowls, six of which have been gifted to friends and relatives. Very satisfying. I had my wife show a few off at her prayer/crafting group and the response was encouraging. Showed a few to a local gift shop who would take 40% off whatever I want to price them at. I was surprised at the prices in her shop, but apparently items move regularly. People are so willing to part with their money it seems, probably inversely related to the effort put in and the need for recompense. I just love turning. But if I want more tools and perhaps a proper lathe someday, then it will have to pay for itself somehow.
I get a sense that the pinnacle of sale-ability is something which is unique, beautiful, and functional and that a combination of any two of those will maximize the price:effort:cost formula.
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts.
Pricing is the hardest part! Great video Sam, I enjoyed hearing your thoughts and approach to a difficult subject. Hope you had a wonderful Christmas this year, and have a safe and happy New Year
I just watched this, for the forth time. Very, very helpful video, Sam. We sell a number of lidded boxes and a ton of pens. I think a lot of it has to do with folks not knowing what it took to make a bowl, or vessel. We also have found that bottle stoppers, ice cream scoops, and other kitchen ware sell fairly well. I believe this is do to the uniqueness of the item. Again, thanks for the video.
I am adding this to help explain more about the information I gave in the cutting board segment:
Sorry I did not provide that. I looked at the actual excel file and that number is imbedded as a mathematical formula. I did that file 15 years ago and forgot how I did it. BUT it is easy to figure out. Lets say (to keep it simple) your cutting board is 10" by 10" before you create a formula of any kind just estimate the price of a cutting board that big. $50 or $500. I would think it would be closer to $50. so lets just put in that arbitrary number. 10 x 10 x (100) x 2=$200. Ok if 2 is the number then that won't work. To get to $50 the number must be .5. IF you think that is a fair price then apply that arbitrary number to all your boards. Like 15 x 15 x .5 = $112
I also had a separate formula for butcher black cutting boards as they are more time consuming to make.
Hope this helps. Sam
Hi Sam, I really like your way of explaining things. I have been turning for a few years and started selling my bowls at markets here in Newcastle, Australia, last year. My formula is the volume of the disc that would contain the bowl times $0.0165c/cc. That is Radius x radius x height (all in cm) x 3.142 x 0.0165 and I round up to the nearest $5. If I buy the wood I add that cost on. That makes my price for your US$100 bowl A$85. I figure that is fair enough given our respective profiles in the wood turning community. Keep up your great work. Cheers, Steve
Nice approach.
Sam
Like you were saying about the hours. I sometimes get wrapped up in the thought well how many hours did I spend say sanding and my price needs to go up otherwise I find out I paid myself $5 an hour. Also my experiences with people in my part of the country don't have a clue what it took to make a project. But they will go buy MDF furniture from a store and not ask questions.
Seems to me that far too many Artisans are actually paying customers to take their work away. th-cam.com/video/WdWzNy0qTgU/w-d-xo.html
THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK SAM....MERRY CHRISTMAS
actually, Sam, that butcher block board gave me an idea for a Christmas present.. it's lovely...
I appreciate people who sell and can sell. I for one found it exhausting to sell my hobby. In fact, it became a job... and then people don't want to pay you for what you've put into it... so it just stock piles. I have found relief in my life by making things for fun again. And I gift them away... I might sell something if I have it on hand. But I don't take orders anymore. I do have a regular job... maybe if I retire (and most people know preachers never retire)... I might make it on as job.
Jon, Yep, selling is NO fun. I agree totally with where you are coming from. I have been giving more stuff away lately. It is a nice feeling. And you are right about not getting paid for the work we put in.....Sam
You are a Great man to be sharing all of your hard earned knowledge ,
I hope karma of great things come back to you sir. thank you
Allway's Injoy your videos. Great teaching skills an awesome wood working skills.
Great video. Retiring soon. I want to pursue my hobby of wood-turning and sell some items. Your advice is very valuable. Thanks -Skip
Hello sir.....I am from India..plz help me..
I want to start this business...but I can't understand where will I marketing this product..
Plz say something
@@mindgame2465 maybe on Facebook - make a page, Instagram. You could make a website
Hi Sam. I really appreciate your videos. I simplified the pricing problem for my basic salad bowls. Simply take a tape measure ( a cloth one works best ) but can be done with a metal one. Measure from lip around the bottom to the other side lip. Put what ever dollar price your comfortable with and multiply inches by dollars. This system takes in account for the depth and width of the bowl every time. Extra decorations may add a little extra. Of course this does not work for art, or special pieces. I hope this helps some of the viewers out there.
Darren Agnew
there has to be an added part to the bowl pricing formula. If you sell in Carmel, Calif, then you can multiply the total by 2 or more. If you live where I live, you divide the total by 4 or 5. The best formula is to get what you can for it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and only experience will tell you what those in your area are willing to pay. Etsy and websites add something to sell-ability of an item, but there is nothing like actually seeing something in person, like the burl bowl. Seeing a picture and picking it up and seeing how the light refects off the surface are 2 different experiences. For a year, I tried to sell my art in my city at a co-op and barely was able to pay the rent on my little spot. Put those same items in a coastal art city and I would have made some major cash.
So knowing your market is key. I have just started turning bowls, went on ebay and there are a LOT of bowls for sale and the prices are nowhere this formula. So I'm not sure what I will do with the results. I'm not in this to make money at it (I have a cabinet shop). What I will do with the results of my labors is yet to be determined. There are craft fairs here but for the price of the booth, you have to sell a lot of $15 bowls to pay for it, plus the time sitting out in the sun getting skin cancer as to be figured in....
Thanks very much for some great comments. I do agree totally with everything you say. The market you are in is everything. I really consider only my own View of selling items which is mostly on the Internet and occasionally went people coming to my shop. The market in Wyoming is pretty bleak as compared to other parts of the country. Selling is really difficult. And part of that is we are developing more and more wood turners around the country and the world. we're all trying to sell stuff. Thanks again Sam
Good usable info Sam. Thanks for sharing. New cabinet is working out nicely.
Merry Christmas, Dave
Great info, Sam! Thanks for making a video on this.
Great tips Sam, and thank you for sharing your experience with us.
Hope you had a great Christmas, and have a wonderful 2017.
Cheers
Mike
Thanks Mike
I hope you are staying warm
Sam
Thanks, you are a great help to us new comer’s.
Merry Christmas Sam and thank you for all the grea Videos
Thanks Sam for another video. It is a thorny subject I take on board you points about regularly turned items, I do agree the one more elaborate/complicated pieces to make get ting to a price that satisfies the maker and the purchaser is shot in the dark. I spent a lot of my time making it, but I can't hold on to everything dilemma. Have a good Christmas. Archie Scott (Scotland)
That burl bowl would be a nice soup bowl. ha ha ha!
Super helpful video for me, thank you. What kind of paint do you keep mentioning? Searching for verde paint just gives me green, ha!
Couldn't agree more with your statement that we're woodturners, not salesmen. I have literally boxes of turnings that are completely done, but haven't sold hardly anything. I'd like somebody to buy & appreciate some of what I've made, but I don't like selling, I'm not good at selling, and I don't have a good demeanor for selling. On the other hand, what good is it having half a dozen boxes full of turnings stacked together in my basement?
Thanks Sam. Very helpful information!... Merry Christmas to you and Coco!
Thanks for another excellent video. Merry Christmas!
As new turners with a lot of items turned,pricing is a major concern. Thanks for the help.
Yes my friend----and it will only be a bigger problem as time goes on. It is difficult to be a maker and a seller. Sam
Thank you Sam I do segmented turning and curious about pricing. I like your calculation that seems perfect after all I am a woodworker not a sales person. You do beautiful work.
Cal
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Have a cracking Christmas.
Very informative Sam! Love your work! Learned a lot of great educational tips watching your videos!
For a multiplier of 2.5 what would you think is a fair multiplier for Acrylic cast bowls since resin is so expensive!
I’ve been turning cast Wood burl / resin bowls and think a multiplier of 2.5 is way to low? Any thoughts?
Thanks and keep on turning!!!
I agree. I like it for a flat breadboard or a simple bowl shape. For a bowl with spectacular burl grain I just don't think about using it. Or something very special or hard to turn like cast resin. Another point is that turning 20 or 30 bowls, it is important to objectively place a price on the bowls. But if you make hollow forms and they are all different, then you just have to think about what price someone will pay. Sam
WYOMINGWOODTURNER thanks! Love the new lathe by the way! Congrats on the new shop! Super exciting!!!! Happy Turning!!!
Enjoyed your demonstration.
Nice video. You're a good man.
Thanks for the info . I’m not alone in this dilemma
Thanks for the video I dread pricing! This is helpful
Good video. I struggle with pricing all the time.
Seems to me that far too many Artisans are actually paying customers to take their work away. th-cam.com/video/WdWzNy0qTgU/w-d-xo.html
Sam,
You said you had a formula for pricing cutting boards, what is the amount you multiply after you get the width and length? Enjoy watching your stuff
I am not sure. I checked and it is a math equation I did 15 years ago. I looked and really can't figure it out. Plus I have 5 pricing levels. I can change prices by looking at the next column. But It looks like it would be around .3 or .35. It all comes down to what you think is a good price. Sam
Thank You--& Have a Safe and Happy Season
I have used ur pricing method on several projects over the years. Have u adjusted ur pricing model or still running with it?
Thanks for the comment, no, I am pretty much using this as a general rule of thumb for basic bowls. If the grain and figure is more stunning than I adjust the price upward Sam.
Hi Sam, Merry Christmas to you and yours. Lee & Bonnie
Really interesting! I don't sell anything as it's just an engaging hobby to me, but I think if I did, My formula factors would be (a) DIMENSIONS (b) Cost of raw material / stock & (c) TIME. I would leave sentiment or beauty out of it, as I know from working in other fields, your best effort to create something beautiful is always expected.
Very informative. Thank you
Thank you Sam-be nice to get some of these bowls out of the house :-)
Thanks for your advice, I am at the point where I have a lot of things I have made and I'm running out of room, I don't intend to stop making them as I enjoy the craft, so I have to begin selling some of them, my thoughts are with going to craft fiars to sell them, is this the best place to sell them?? thanks . Ron
Ron, I think selling on several different platforms is a good idea. I sell most stuff on ETSY. I have just stopped doing craft fairs-too much work for this old guy. But I think you can make some good money doing craft fairs. We are just in such a remote location, it is not beneficial for use. Sam
*Merry Christmas Sam (and Coco the workshop puppy) :) and a Happy New Year for 2017 :)*
Just curious what you do when you pay as much for the wood as your length x width calculation.
That is a really good question. The short answer is I don’t. I do pay for Wood but how much you can make from a particular piece of wood is the issue. I am a thread chaser. So usually I must pay for this sort of wood. But it is small and I make boxes from that Wood In can use make OK money from it. But again that’s a really good question. Thanks, Sam.
Simple designs are sometimes more desirable to collectors, but that being said, I believe that 'just because' the wood wasn't expensive, doesn't mean the finished piece isn't valuable. You want to be competitive, but also get the art out there. I just wish more craftsmen would use the old wood that's being sent to the landfill in Florida.
Very good info. Very useful. Thanks
Thanks for sharing.
hello Sam,
thank you for your time and expertise. I am a carpenter who is a beginning woodturner and I find your videos invaluable. with regards to pricing I feel like your pricing seemed extremely fair and maybe even a little low. the way I look at it that urn may have taken 6 hours to make but it took thirty years of woodturning to be able to make it in six hours. how do you put a price on that!
instablaster
Sam, how much more can YOU charge because of your stature as a recognized artist? Most of us don't have your expertise nor standing.
Gary
That is a really interesting question. I believe.....the answer is Not much. Anyone outside the turning community really does not know me, I am guessing. But they may follow me on Pinterest or ETSY and buy my stuff there. But all that has taken a lot of work----getting my name out there. Sam
I was wondering how you treat work with small checks or cracks. Toss it? Epoxy? Turn it thinner? Would you still sell any of them? Thanks.
Mostly this depends on--- if the repair or crack or fault in the wood will end up attractive or pleasing. I will fill in the cracks or checks but occasionally I will toss a piece. Or I will try to turn out the crack and eliminate it if i can. Sam
Hi! Love your work. To add an easy formulae to the pricing mix ... Cost of materials + Your hourly labour (times the amount of hours) + 10% for overhead percentage (electrical usage / wear-an-tear and odds) + 30% for intrinsic value. Example (whatever the product): 10$ + 54$ + 6$ + 21$ = 91$ After paying yourself, you should have at least another 30% in your pocket. And, remember, these are 'one-off' unique pieces ... ! They'll never get another one 'exactly' the same anywhere in the world ... !!! To add more to the defence; these are 'not' pieces of cheap crap churned out of a machine by the thousands from China ... !!! There's a very large portion of the population that are very happy to pay good money for quality ... you and many other great woodturners produce it. Simply; protect your work and profession through your price.
I think that the more exact and detailed the formula for determining the price we charge is a good thing. However when I am in my shop working on various projects I seldom complete one in a specific time frame without working on 3 or 4 other projects. Sometimes I put a project away for months waiting for a piece to dry for example. I feel for me this would be a bookkeeping nightmare. I do have some idea how long I work on something and the materials I use. Bottom line, for me if I make a box or bowl or pen I pretty much know how much to charge. I used to make $5000 china cabinets or furniture. This was a different story. Then I did sit down and truly estimate time/materials/profit. Finally-If I make a simple 16" walnut salad bowl and charge $800, it will never sell. If I try to sell it for $5 It will sell but I will lose my shirt. So "what the market will bear" is for me a good way to go. Thanks Sam
Hello sir....plz helm me ..
I want to start this business...
Could you tell me that where and how I marketing of this product?
From an industrial background quoting is very mechanical. Time, materials, margin.
Art's much more subjective and the same $50 material can be $100 or $1000 in the right niche.
Also I'd pay $55 for the bowl :)
Yea.....My problem is I don't keep track of time etc on every piece I make. Oh well. Thanks Sam
Hi for what would you use a small urn like that?i cremated my old man two years ago and the urn content comes to 2.3 kg
Pieter
Some people calls these small pieces a "token urn" A small amount of ashes are placed in them and the remainder of the ashes are spread out some place.
I just sold a lady two smaller urns. Sam
$225 - sold! What's the shipping to UK like?
Which piece? Shipping is usually not too bad. Sam
What is your cutingbord formula
Drew
I have a simple calculation for my cutting boards Price based on the volume; simply the length multiplied by the width multiplied by the thickness. I would say it is based on what is reasonable for the price of the cutting board. So if you have a cutting board that is 12" x 12" x 1" thick and determine the price to be $40 for example. Use that as the base Price for the rest of your cutting boards. So a cutting board twice that large would be $80. Keep in mind the price you arrive at must be reasonable and it can't be too low. This is nice when you are selling at a craft fair and someone ask you how you arrive at your prices you can simply refer to a list of prices based on the size of your cutting board. Hope this helps Sam
The economy in the Buyer will determine a sale.
How much do you charge for a class?
I have always charged $30 per hour. And just customized the hours for each student. If you want 2 hours or 3 days.... But being in Billings I might get more than one student at a time. So I am rethinking the amount I charge. Sam
I think I missed something... for the cutting board formula I took you to say LENGTH*WIDTH=price. Where is the arbitrary figure in the formula? In your stock example you said "14x16= price of $77. 14 times 16 does not equal 77. What did I miss? I played it back numerous times but still can't find the balance of that formula. I sell primarily cutting boards and am very interested in this.
Sorry I did not provide that. I looked at the actual excel file and that number is imbedded as a mathematical formula. I did that file 15 years ago and forgot how I did it. BUT it is easy to figure out. Lets say (to keep it simple) your cutting board is 10" by 10" before you create a formula of any kind just estimate the price of a cutting board that big. $50 or $500. I would think it would be closer to $50. so lets just put in that arbitrary number. 10 x 10 x (100) x 2=$200. Ok if 2 is the number then that won't work. To get to $50 the number must be .5. IF you think that is a fair price then apply that arbitrary number to all your boards. Like 15 x 15 x .5 = $112
I also had a separate formula for butcher black cutting boards as they are more time consuming to make.
Hope this helps. Sam
Thanks very much! That did it. I'll use this method for sure.
Ok yea why not cool thanks greets from the Netherlands
I like to price my stuff on my time and money invested plus whatever I think it's worth and if someone sells something similar at a price I sometimes match it or beat it
How and where do you get your wood?
Really all over. It depends mostly on what I need it for. Some I must buy- like my thread chasing wood. But if I can get a free log and turn wet wood, that is the best. Sam
burl bowl is at least worth $350.00 Burl wood is not just every where you could sell the block of wood for 100.00 I have thought about just selling wood prob make more money less work
Seems to me that far too many Artisans are actually paying customers to take their work away. th-cam.com/video/WdWzNy0qTgU/w-d-xo.html
Are these numbers, measuring volume, any less arbitrary than, say, hydrogen content?
I assume you are referring to my mathematical equation height x diameter x 2.5. The 2.5 number is arbitrary in that I could have selected any number. First, it makes pricing uniform on all pieces similar to this one that I make. I could have given the "arbitrary" number 8. So a 2" tall x 10" wide bowl multiplied by 8 would be priced at $160. So I figure out objectively what that arbitrary number should be and I apply it to all basic said bowls. Using the number 8 the bowl is priced way too high. At 2.5 the cost is $50. That makes more sense. I can always use a slightly different number if those bowls DON'T sell or sell too easily.
And it is so difficult to measure hydrogen content. Sam
To find how much to charge. Shop overhead ( lights, heating & cooling, Taxes, insurance,maintenance on tools and vehicial). What it cost to run the shop each day. Hourly wage or how much do you want to make per year? Cost of materials because you have to buy wood, sandpaper, glue, and finish.Also Profit that can buy new tools, expand the shop, good vehicle , ect. So it comes to X = shop overhead + Y=wages + Z= materials + Profit. This all works out to what you have to charge per hour + hours to make item. This will tell you what the item selling price will be.
There are two things that will send a woodworkers soul to hell. Working dull tools and not charging enough.
Thanks for making the video. As for the formula on the cutting boards, what does that look like? In the case of the 14x16 cutting board, what gets it to $77? Is there a straight multiplier on that just like in the bowls? (~$.343 in this case)
Yes, I am not sure what I came up with. But it is that arbitrary number that I decide on. If it seems like too much or too little, I change it then keep it the same for all my boards.
Sam
Selling is one thing, accounting for it in your taxes is another. Of course you may not declare the sales, but if you do then you might as well claim your expenses. So then you declare a business and the expenses keep mounting. Not easy to TURN a profit.
Jack, I do agree that making a profit working with wood is not easy. It must be more than just a labor of love. as craftsman or artists we may create beautiful things. But usually we don't have a personality to be very businesslike. That is me in a nutshell. I'm not good at selling and I don't like to sell, But I must. Thanks for watching my video talk to you later Sam
good video Sam, can I get a copy of your spreadsheet for cutting boards?
I am working on getting that onto one of my websites. Sam
Sorry to bug you again. You were talking about craft shows that you sell at. I enquired about the one in our area and I was told that I have to get on a list. One guy told me it was a year later that they called him. I was so bummed about that I didn't even bother.
Another very informative video Sam, many thanks. Many times I use the formula Material X 2 + 20% = Price. It is quite close to your formula. I think I will consider both depending of the cost of material etc.
Happy New Year.
Regards
Brian
I have always priced with a day right plus 120% of materals +3%
Thanks
Sam
Good Info Sam! Dia. X Height X 2.5
Just a touch of procrastination here Sam.
How so?
Interesting video, though it is all very subjective depending on your end-goal.
For me from a business point of view prior to turning something, I take the cost of the wood, the amount of time it takes me and then pay myself a "wage" based on that. I.E. if the wood is easy to come by, I could do it for the price of the timber, plus the time it took me to make (2 hours at $30 an hour) that'd make the price of the piece $60. (The cost of equipment included within the labour).
If the wood was hard to come by, I charge the "finders fee" of $20 per hour + shipping (if applicable) + cost of wood / how many pieces I can make out of it and the charge the "labour" rate.
If I'm doing something for fun or something really out there, I'd just charge the cost of the timber, everything else at my expense as it was for "professional development".
Thanks for your approach for pricing. Yep, not an easy thing....selling
Sam
thx 4 video
lilwestkid
lilwestkid pm lip 😂 lol lol lol llllllll 😂 lol l
I’m surprised you didnt also factor in the type of wood.
Saludos me gustaria que por favor pusiera subtitulos en español
I sell my turning projects to pay for flight school. 🚁
$100.oo for a white wood bowl. A little high.
Not even two minutes in "How do we price this? I'm going to show you a simple way." Just do the thing
How much do you sell? Not to knock your work, it's beautiful but $75 bucks for a cutting board? I know what the wood cost. I know what kind of time goes into making some of these objects. But I can't for the life of me see anyone paying that kind of money unless it's from a world class artist. But hey more power to you if you can get it.
I think the best thing for you to do is to just search the cost of cutting boards. This is something I spend time doing for comparing anything I sell. My boards are always around 2 inches thick. This is important to prevent any warping. I probably made my first boards 25 or 30 years ago. I would make batches of 30 to 50 at a time. I would sell them mostly at craft shows. So over the years I estimate I have sold 400-500 boards. I have about 15 on hand right now. I have also made a few custom cutting boards for hunters etc that are very large with a groove to catch drippings. Thanks very much. Sam
Please get to the point. “How do you price that?” Simple question. There is no need to embellish your answer.
Not so simple approach😂
I think you need to explain what your factor of 2.5 represents.To attempt to explain this to someone as you mentioned will not be helpful. At the end of the day it's what the market will bear. Understand that there are unique pieces, time involved and nuances with different woods. I think it depends on where you live and what you are trying to sell as well as what the local competition is doing.
Dan, This approach for me started with breadboards. I have made probably 500..... This was a way I could simply measure the board--- length x width x thickness and multiply that by an arbitrary number that would set the price in a reasonable range. using the "2.5" number as an example, my prices were always consistent. I have a spread sheet with 5 or 6 columns each with a different number. I used different numbers for my chopping block boards which required more labor. This way, if a customer asked why I was charging this price for a particular breadboard, I had a good, objective explanation. Now, this approach applies to bowls only if the wood is pretty basic and perhaps for food servers. As you mentioned if the wood or grain is spectacular or maybe more valuable, this approach does not work. It is indeed what the market will bear. Sam
great video Sam. Can you look at my channel? I'm just starting with video but have been turning a while on 10" lathe now I have a 22" lathe. I will have more to come soon.
Chris,
I did look at your channel. Looks like you have a good start on turning. You are doing some nice work. Sam
You had me interested until you just kept rattling on!!! You touched 3 bowls, two lidded boxes and 2 cutting boards and didn't mention a single thing about price!! Really it was more hey look what I made it's pretty!!! Just get to the point
th-cam.com/video/WdWzNy0qTgU/w-d-xo.html
Very little information and almost almost all of it was arbitrary. Video could have been about one minute long without losing anything. Obviously a very talented turner, but pricing strategies don't seem to be a strong point.
What are your pricing strategies?
Seven minutes in no real information. Ready to turn off when you finally give information. Then commercial.
Thanks, Sam
Basic speach and presentation tip quit telling us what your going to tell us and just get to the point keep your videos organized like an essay intro,body,conclusion intro only being like 15 seconds then just get to the point.
Duane, thanks for the feedback. You may be totally correct in your analysis. I wanted to compare my video to one of yours. I went to your channel and could not find one. Please send me a link to your work. I am sure it is excellent. Thanks Again Sam
WYOMINGWOODTURNER
Hi I saw you replied unfortunately I do not have a channel of my own I am young and in the process of booting up a small side business doing wood projects. There for I use videos like your to get information and cross examine my own conclusions.
My input on your videos comes from watching other videos and speech and presentation class in school. I replied with the tip because you have really helpful info but as I explained in my prior post you could shorten them and accomplish the same message. I do appreciate what you do thanks.