I played around a bit with TENS and microcurrent a few years ago with a unit that cost $50. The waveform was not adjustable (I think it was square). I had sciatica; I could directly block pain using the electrodes on the lower back; the device was battery powered and had a belt clip. I also tried auricular TENS for other health issues. In addition, I have a wrist TENS device for nausea called EmeTerm. When my daughter and I both became ill we both had nausea. She thought the EmeTerm helped a bit but she was unable to use it even at the lowest setting since it caused her skin to disintegrate. I was able to use it on max for long periods w/o this effect. At one point I remember doing auricular vagal nerve stimulation while also wearing the EmeTerm on my right wrist and getting so relaxed I started drooling. I should probably mention that I got rid of my sciatica problem by doing static stretching; it was gone within 2 weeks of daily stretching. Same thing for plantar fasciitis. The key was to hold the positions for 2 min. each. Stretching increases resolvin production.
Interesting one. I haven't seen the TENS/VNS combo, though I know some have tried using TENS devices as VNS. I definitely like that the stretching was so effective. - Jarred Younger
@@ClaireCaoimheRaeMoonshadow I have been experimenting with all the vagus nervous stuff for a couple years now. I do humming, tapping, singing through the day. I have two different devices they both seem to provide some relief. The touch points have I use daily. And anytime I have to go out and get all the toxic exposures. They have not been cure but my reactions is noticeable less sever when wearing them.
It's great he's talking about Cns back related issues, as someone with Arachnoiditis I am starting to see how many individuals suffer with issues that step from chronic inflammation stemmimg from the cns system, it is said many issue's related to Fibro are cns issues
I was having heart palpitations along with little muscle spasms in the chest wall that were mild, intermittent, and moved around (e.g., left armpit then right). I suspected a nerve issue, so when Dr. TH-cam showed me a vagus nerve video which also explained my acid reflux and neck and shoulder tension, I watched what it does. I got some relief from my (real doctor) chiropractor. Stress and bad ergonomics I know are recurring issues for me. Then Dr. TH-cam showed me some vagus nerve “reset” videos. The first one I tried ended these issues except for occasional acid reflux. It consisted of looking all the way to the right (neck and head neutral, eyes to the right only) and holding it for 30 seconds. And that was it: the original issues have not come back (palpitations, muscle twitches still gone). Other “reset” videos showed up and were as simple as taking 30 inhale/exhale breaths in a row. That seemed to help as well, sometimes, as I’ve tried these for any tension or stress symptoms I might detect. I know many energy practices (massage, acupuncture, acupressure, and others) use the ear to communicate with the nervous systems. But it was that vagus nerve that helped tie things together which is why I worry about seeing specialists instead of generalists. Everything may be connected!
Interesting! I agree that using the reductionist approach too quickly, especially with poorly understood chronic conditions, can cause us to miss the big picture. - Jarred Younger
Hello Jarred, Is it possible that tVNS like this would help drive down neuroinflammation in the brain by affecting activated microglia? As vagal tone seems to be low in CFS patients
Short answer is yes, they are. All of those can increase parasympathetic activity. But someone would have to do a properly designed and conducted clinical trial to get my attention. - Jarred Younger
@@lucidoneironaut4555 yes I do all of these they help a ton. The humming seems to improving immune or I am at least not getting every bug that gets anywhere near me.
@@youngerlab thanks yeah the only humming trials ive seen are about increasing nitric oxide to help with sinusitis. I think theres a phd at macquarie uni who has been studying the impact of chanting on wellbeing/moods but not specifically looking at pain.
Glad to see non-invasive alternatives being addressed for low back pain. Allergies to many antibiotics keeps me away from invasive routes so I hope this is an accepted treatment soon. 😊
Palpating for myofascial trigger points in the erector muscles, quadratus lumborum, the psoas attachment at L5 and L4 and even myofascial trigger points in the rectus abdominis can refer pain to the lower back. Dry needling is the most effective treatment for myofascial pain syndrome. Myofascial pain syndrome is the most common manifestation of chronic pain there is. Combine the dry needling with electrical stimulation of the muscles, stretching and heat and you can reverse chronic pain conditions.
@@johnathanabrams8434 I've done the palpation stuff...it seems there are sympathetic nerves there that release stuff in the torso and back. I get a lot of relief from that but it's a stop and the benefit stops. Great rescue remedy. Perhaps if I was less ill, it would be transformative. Moving that fascia and trigger points seems very helpful. Thank you for verbalizing this
On the other hand, the classic approach has a significant risk of serious injury to the patient. If this device can provide a fraction of the best-case benefit of the invasive method, without the worst-case risk, it is worth further investigation. Which is more or less the gist of the video.
Yeah, I guess if I were going that route, I would try noninvasive first. If that was working, but just not enough, I might consider invasive VNS. But I would have to try many other things before I had implanted leads. - Jarred Younger
I wonder if the pain relief benefits are more from the muscle relaxation from the vagus stimulation, vs a lack of pain relief for skeletal related pain from disk disease, arthritis, etc?
Thanks for mentioning it. I haven't followed that treatment approach, but needles in the right area of the ear would affect the vagus nerve, so I can see the therapeutic benefit. There are many papers on that approach. - Jarred Younger
VNS has been shown to help gastroparesis and fibromyalgia, but I'm not sure if taVNS (noninvasive) specifically has been tested in those conditions. But yes both conditions can involve abnormal autonomic balance that VNS can help. - Jarred Younger
I had the PYLOROPLASTY surgery done in Louisville. I now can eat pretty much what I want but I still have symptoms occasionally ( nausea, vomiting bloating) The biggest trouble is the slow transit constipation. I have tried various various nerve stimulation techniques and sleep in the cold . Not much here as far as therapeutics . I try to find things online. My friend who is an EN said that red light therapy is supposed to be beneficial but it's to expensive for me. Alast .. 🤷
Thanks for mentioning them. I haven't tried out any of those devices because they generally aren't tested scientifically for efficacy and safety. - Jarred Younger
If you haven’t research L rueteri dairy ferment. Microbiom repair please look into it. I am extreme chemical sensitivity. Back in 2016 when I started my natural journey I was mostly bed ridden, 280 pounds of massive inflammation, off the pain chart. I Could be on feet 90 minutes total in a day with walker. Now I am down 140 pounds and able to walk 10,000 steps a day. I make everything that goes in or on my body. 8 years of experiments have helped me regain much function. This recently found treasure stopped 2 mo tha of diarrhea, triggered from a visit to a medical facility and perfumes. 3 days my gut cleared. Gut feels better than anytime o can recall in 67 years. I was put on antibiotics as a tiny baby and have never had a well functioning gut. I am blown away what 2 weeks has done. And to be fair this may be the last piece of my puzzle where it may be an early piece for many. Dr William Davis MD author of Super Gut is where I found this experiment. Because like you when you have no answers experiments are only way to figure it out . Thanks again for what you do.
Hi Jarred. I’m interested in immune modulating drugs like hydroxychloroquine and immunoglobulin but also even more in glatimer acetate and interferon. Please if you could on day speak on your thoughts of these treatments. Also maybe try and guess what subtypes it could suit. I personally don’t have a clear infection trigger or problems with herpes. Also I guess immune function can be affected by other traumas such as psychological, physical, and intoxication. Not only infectious viral attack. 🌻
Dr a while back you talked about a paper a journal a scientific study that looked at where the in the brain in the central nervous system is fibromyalgia where is it What part of the brain does it affect. Can you please send me the paper the name of the paper? Thank you so much
I can see the positive electrode is placed on cymba concha of the left ear, but where would the negative electrode be placed? Ive see s similar study for migraine patients using 1hz very effectively.
An ear clip is used for the electrodes. There's a demonstration video that accompanies the article "Laboratory Administration of Transcutaneous Auricular Vagus Nerve Stimulation (taVNS): Technique, Targeting, and Considerations" on the JoVE website.
Appreciate the work. Jarred. I think this may be a non starter tho...this sortve stuff has been tried loads. Tens machines etc. Central sensitization. That's too much of an easy catch all phrase. IF it exists, it needs to be studied. I believe pain is a massive mcas issue
My main interest in VNS is that it seems to decrease inflammation in the central nervous system. It is hard to get pharmaceutical anti-inflammatories through the blood-brain barrier, so I want to know if VNS might be an alternative approach for some people. - Jarred Younger
@youngerlab sure jarred, I'm not trying to be negative. Leave no stone unturned etc but this to me is a very " du jour" therapy that won't stand the test of time. Perhaps hyperbaric oxygen therapy is a more realistic way of bringing inflammation in the brain down
@youngerlab there's some quite interesting work on the tongue being done and the lymphatics. You can invoke the parasympathetic response by realigning your tongue ( and therefore the structures the vagus nerve ebbervates)
Where is the reference to the paper on this please? (By the way have you ever thought of moving your position or the picture behind you so it doesn't look like a light bulb coming out of your head!)
You can find the link in the description right below the video. The picture is signifying all the glowing good ideas, but I've been thinking of changing things up a bit. - Jarred Younger
The actual tests they ran are two-sample t-tests contrasting the baseline condition with each timepoint. The main figure using a box-and-whisker plot with interquartile ranges doesn't really represent those tests very well. The 1 month and 3 month timepoints had lower reported back pain than baseline, with p-values below 0.001. - Jarred Younger
@@shawnshawn7477 mold is a definite driver...but it's not the causal issue in my opinion. It's a downstream reaction to a phenotype. Some people are completely resilient to mold. Others just have to look at a damp wall and they're in bed! People have success with hyperbaric therapy and red light sauna. But why is it happening in the first place? Faults in the connective tissue. Asprey has autism I believe. Not uncommon amongst mold sufferers. I think mold is creating MCAS storms and provoking a huge immune response. Inflammatory Cascades. But why are those damn mast cells so eager to degranulate?
NMN Nicotinamide Mononucleotide i was wondering if it might help M.E.CFS. insomnia?. also, did you get the Garmin app screenshots I emailed you a while back?
I'll go back and check for the email. For the NMN, I'll need to read up on the literature. I am interested in it for diabetes, insulin sensitivity, glucose control, etc., but I haven't considered it for ME/CFS. - Jarred Younger
@@youngerlab blood sugar regulation, In My opinion is implicitly linked to CFS. I think that dumysregulation from the sad diet starts early in phenotypically weak individuals. Lots of people with CFS have comorbities like diabetes or PCOS etc don't they
Its the best time of the week once again!
I played around a bit with TENS and microcurrent a few years ago with a unit that cost $50. The waveform was not adjustable (I think it was square). I had sciatica; I could directly block pain using the electrodes on the lower back; the device was battery powered and had a belt clip. I also tried auricular TENS for other health issues. In addition, I have a wrist TENS device for nausea called EmeTerm. When my daughter and I both became ill we both had nausea. She thought the EmeTerm helped a bit but she was unable to use it even at the lowest setting since it caused her skin to disintegrate. I was able to use it on max for long periods w/o this effect. At one point I remember doing auricular vagal nerve stimulation while also wearing the EmeTerm on my right wrist and getting so relaxed I started drooling. I should probably mention that I got rid of my sciatica problem by doing static stretching; it was gone within 2 weeks of daily stretching. Same thing for plantar fasciitis. The key was to hold the positions for 2 min. each. Stretching increases resolvin production.
Interesting one. I haven't seen the TENS/VNS combo, though I know some have tried using TENS devices as VNS. I definitely like that the stretching was so effective. - Jarred Younger
There is a group on Facebook where a woman used this type of nerve stimulation for her chronic illness. It’s something I’ve been interested in.
May I ask what the group is called?
@@SunshineGrove04 AVA A Vagus Adventure
@@ClaireCaoimheRaeMoonshadow I have been experimenting with all the vagus nervous stuff for a couple years now. I do humming, tapping, singing through the day. I have two different devices they both seem to provide some relief. The touch points have I use daily. And anytime I have to go out and get all the toxic exposures. They have not been cure but my reactions is noticeable less sever when wearing them.
It's great he's talking about Cns back related issues, as someone with Arachnoiditis I am starting to see how many individuals suffer with issues that step from chronic inflammation stemmimg from the cns system, it is said many issue's related to Fibro are cns issues
Thanks. I want to see if taVNS can reduce the brain inflammation I am seeing in the PET and MRI scans. - Jarred Younger
I was having heart palpitations along with little muscle spasms in the chest wall that were mild, intermittent, and moved around (e.g., left armpit then right). I suspected a nerve issue, so when Dr. TH-cam showed me a vagus nerve video which also explained my acid reflux and neck and shoulder tension, I watched what it does. I got some relief from my (real doctor) chiropractor. Stress and bad ergonomics I know are recurring issues for me.
Then Dr. TH-cam showed me some vagus nerve “reset” videos. The first one I tried ended these issues except for occasional acid reflux. It consisted of looking all the way to the right (neck and head neutral, eyes to the right only) and holding it for 30 seconds. And that was it: the original issues have not come back (palpitations, muscle twitches still gone).
Other “reset” videos showed up and were as simple as taking 30 inhale/exhale breaths in a row. That seemed to help as well, sometimes, as I’ve tried these for any tension or stress symptoms I might detect. I know many energy practices (massage, acupuncture, acupressure, and others) use the ear to communicate with the nervous systems.
But it was that vagus nerve that helped tie things together which is why I worry about seeing specialists instead of generalists. Everything may be connected!
Interesting! I agree that using the reductionist approach too quickly, especially with poorly understood chronic conditions, can cause us to miss the big picture. - Jarred Younger
Hello Jarred,
Is it possible that tVNS like this would help drive down neuroinflammation in the brain by affecting activated microglia? As vagal tone seems to be low in CFS patients
Are singing, chanting and humming also non invasive alternatives for vagus nerve stimulation?
Humming certainly helps me with my (probable)EBV-induced gastroparesis/motility symptoms.
Short answer is yes, they are. All of those can increase parasympathetic activity. But someone would have to do a properly designed and conducted clinical trial to get my attention. - Jarred Younger
@@lucidoneironaut4555 yes I do all of these they help a ton. The humming seems to improving immune or I am at least not getting every bug that gets anywhere near me.
@@youngerlab thanks yeah the only humming trials ive seen are about increasing nitric oxide to help with sinusitis. I think theres a phd at macquarie uni who has been studying the impact of chanting on wellbeing/moods but not specifically looking at pain.
Thanks Dr. Younger!
Very interesting, thank you Jarred.
Glad to see non-invasive alternatives being addressed for low back pain. Allergies to many antibiotics keeps me away from invasive routes so I hope this is an accepted treatment soon. 😊
Hi Dr. Younger, I'm curious to know if you have any updates on the zirconium-89 brain scans for ME/CFS? Thanks
Still working on it! No analyses to present yet. Just scheduling the participants now. - Jarred Younger
Thanks Jared.
Palpating for myofascial trigger points in the erector muscles, quadratus lumborum, the psoas attachment at L5 and L4 and even myofascial trigger points in the rectus abdominis can refer pain to the lower back.
Dry needling is the most effective treatment for myofascial pain syndrome. Myofascial pain syndrome is the most common manifestation of chronic pain there is.
Combine the dry needling with electrical stimulation of the muscles, stretching and heat and you can reverse chronic pain conditions.
@@johnathanabrams8434 I've done the palpation stuff...it seems there are sympathetic nerves there that release stuff in the torso and back. I get a lot of relief from that but it's a stop and the benefit stops.
Great rescue remedy. Perhaps if I was less ill, it would be transformative.
Moving that fascia and trigger points seems very helpful.
Thank you for verbalizing this
Thanks!
Ive just been visiting for the first time for a lasertheraphy L4/L5 ... radiating pain at the foot.
On the other hand, the classic approach has a significant risk of serious injury to the patient. If this device can provide a fraction of the best-case benefit of the invasive method, without the worst-case risk, it is worth further investigation. Which is more or less the gist of the video.
Yeah, I guess if I were going that route, I would try noninvasive first. If that was working, but just not enough, I might consider invasive VNS. But I would have to try many other things before I had implanted leads. - Jarred Younger
I wonder if the pain relief benefits are more from the muscle relaxation from the vagus stimulation, vs a lack of pain relief for skeletal related pain from disk disease, arthritis, etc?
Yes it could be that the decreased sympathetic drive would reduce muscle tone and relieve some types of low back pain. - Jarred Younger
Dr Nogier the pioneer in Auricularherapy. It worked for me to stimulate the low back area
Thanks for mentioning it. I haven't followed that treatment approach, but needles in the right area of the ear would affect the vagus nerve, so I can see the therapeutic benefit. There are many papers on that approach. - Jarred Younger
Could this account for those of us with " idiopathic" gastoparsis who have been diagnosed with " fibromyalgia"
I think MCAS is at least part of the picture there
VNS has been shown to help gastroparesis and fibromyalgia, but I'm not sure if taVNS (noninvasive) specifically has been tested in those conditions. But yes both conditions can involve abnormal autonomic balance that VNS can help. - Jarred Younger
I had the PYLOROPLASTY surgery done in Louisville. I now can eat pretty much what I want but I still have symptoms occasionally ( nausea, vomiting bloating) The biggest trouble is the slow transit constipation. I have tried various various nerve stimulation techniques and sleep in the cold . Not much here as far as therapeutics . I try to find things online. My friend who is an EN said that red light therapy is supposed to be beneficial but it's to expensive for me. Alast .. 🤷
@@youngerlab thank you for your teams and your hard work. Maybe one day soon . There will be a break through
I use a couple different
devices I have touch point and pulseto both do have some benefits. They aren’t a cure but a good help.
Thanks for mentioning them. I haven't tried out any of those devices because they generally aren't tested scientifically for efficacy and safety. - Jarred Younger
@ they were affordable and I could return. Desperation experiments that helped.
If you haven’t research L rueteri dairy ferment. Microbiom repair please look into it. I am extreme chemical sensitivity. Back in 2016 when I started my natural journey I was mostly bed ridden, 280 pounds of massive inflammation, off the pain chart. I Could be on feet 90 minutes total in a day with walker. Now I am down 140 pounds and able to walk 10,000 steps a day. I make everything that goes in or on my body. 8 years of experiments have helped me regain much function. This recently found treasure stopped 2 mo tha of diarrhea, triggered from a visit to a medical facility and perfumes. 3 days my gut cleared. Gut feels better than anytime o can recall in 67 years. I was put on antibiotics as a tiny baby and have never had a well functioning gut. I am blown away what 2 weeks has done. And to be fair this may be the last piece of my puzzle where it may be an early piece for many.
Dr William Davis MD author of Super Gut is where I found this experiment. Because like you when you have no answers experiments are only way to figure it out . Thanks again for what you do.
Hi Jarred. I’m interested in immune modulating drugs like hydroxychloroquine and immunoglobulin but also even more in glatimer acetate and interferon. Please if you could on day speak on your thoughts of these treatments. Also maybe try and guess what subtypes it could suit.
I personally don’t have a clear infection trigger or problems with herpes.
Also I guess immune function can be affected by other traumas such as psychological, physical, and intoxication. Not only infectious viral attack. 🌻
Dr a while back you talked about a paper a journal a scientific study that looked at where the in the brain in the central nervous system is fibromyalgia where is it What part of the brain does it affect. Can you please send me the paper the name of the paper? Thank you so much
I can see the positive electrode is placed on cymba concha of the left ear, but where would the negative electrode be placed? Ive see s similar study for migraine patients using 1hz very effectively.
An ear clip is used for the electrodes. There's a demonstration video that accompanies the article "Laboratory Administration of Transcutaneous Auricular Vagus Nerve Stimulation (taVNS): Technique, Targeting, and Considerations" on the JoVE website.
I think the negative lead is also contained in the same ear unit. - Jarred Younger
Appreciate the work. Jarred. I think this may be a non starter tho...this sortve stuff has been tried loads. Tens machines etc.
Central sensitization. That's too much of an easy catch all phrase. IF it exists, it needs to be studied.
I believe pain is a massive mcas issue
My main interest in VNS is that it seems to decrease inflammation in the central nervous system. It is hard to get pharmaceutical anti-inflammatories through the blood-brain barrier, so I want to know if VNS might be an alternative approach for some people. - Jarred Younger
@youngerlab sure jarred, I'm not trying to be negative. Leave no stone unturned etc but this to me is a very " du jour" therapy that won't stand the test of time.
Perhaps hyperbaric oxygen therapy is a more realistic way of bringing inflammation in the brain down
@youngerlab there's some quite interesting work on the tongue being done and the lymphatics. You can invoke the parasympathetic response by realigning your tongue ( and therefore the structures the vagus nerve ebbervates)
@youngerlab I really suggest looking at thynoqinone too. That's instant albeit temporary relief
Where is the reference to the paper on this please?
(By the way have you ever thought of moving your position or the picture behind you so it doesn't look like a light bulb coming out of your head!)
That's his halo!
You can find the link in the description right below the video. The picture is signifying all the glowing good ideas, but I've been thinking of changing things up a bit. - Jarred Younger
Aren't all the measurements the same within statistical error?
The actual tests they ran are two-sample t-tests contrasting the baseline condition with each timepoint. The main figure using a box-and-whisker plot with interquartile ranges doesn't really represent those tests very well. The 1 month and 3 month timepoints had lower reported back pain than baseline, with p-values below 0.001. - Jarred Younger
Dave Asprey talks cfs and mold th-cam.com/video/muAC7WXba4w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mqAfHGs-DmKdug6n
@@shawnshawn7477 mold is a definite driver...but it's not the causal issue in my opinion. It's a downstream reaction to a phenotype.
Some people are completely resilient to mold. Others just have to look at a damp wall and they're in bed!
People have success with hyperbaric therapy and red light sauna.
But why is it happening in the first place?
Faults in the connective tissue.
Asprey has autism I believe. Not uncommon amongst mold sufferers.
I think mold is creating MCAS storms and provoking a huge immune response. Inflammatory Cascades. But why are those damn mast cells so eager to degranulate?
NMN Nicotinamide Mononucleotide i was wondering if it might help M.E.CFS. insomnia?. also, did you get the Garmin app screenshots I emailed you a while back?
I'll go back and check for the email. For the NMN, I'll need to read up on the literature. I am interested in it for diabetes, insulin sensitivity, glucose control, etc., but I haven't considered it for ME/CFS. - Jarred Younger
@youngerlab I've just taken some this morning, I'll let you know if it helps
@@youngerlab blood sugar regulation, In My opinion is implicitly linked to CFS. I think that dumysregulation from the sad diet starts early in phenotypically weak individuals. Lots of people with CFS have comorbities like diabetes or PCOS etc don't they