This is a great explanation, someone even theorized that insomniac Spider-Man joined because after aunt may died he understood that sacrifices must be made
Tbh I think it was more of a cameo of insomnac in the movie and not actually him in the spider society because it does not really fit in with the story much
I don’t think insomniac was even fully part of the society because he was only in one scene and it was a completely different alternate cartoony model that was part of the chase
It's basically been confirmed by his actor Josh Keaton exactly this and that he would join Miles' side if given the reason and chance. Also in the poster with miles upside down and everyone else in the background there's two sides that represents Miles' or Miguel's, spectaculars is on the side of Miles.
I think it's also important to note here that all of these Spider-People primarily joined not to "protect the canon" by allowing Canon events but rather to put genuine anomalies, often super villains, back home. There's a level of compromise that has to be made to operate under Miguel but the core reason why a lot of these people probably still stick around despite the knowledge of allowing canon events is because they still feel the need to help. There is a problem that only working with Miguel can fix and they can't turn their back on that even if Miguel makes them turn their back on others, they don't have much of a choice when it's shown Miguel can monitor them and such (also seeing how he is willing to resort to violence as shown with Miles). It's a really tricky situation which i think is handled really well and goes back to "You can save everyone if you look the other way." I don't think they want to but as Spectacular himself says: "I know it's hard, but it's the truth Miles." To stop anomalies you have to play by the book... unless you do your own thing. Which I think Miles is going to show everyone, you can do.
At first, i was very upset at the idea that insomniac spidey would side with miguel. I was like "but he's been through a similar situation before when he had to sacrifice aunt may for the whole of new york city! Why would he want miles to also go through it?" I had someone explain to me that its exactly because hes been through this situation before that he knows at some point, some things are unavoidable and its probably better to accept that
If you think about it, insomniac Peters situation at the end of the first game has the same philosophy as Miguel, let one person die to save many many others. Itd make sense why he’d join Miguel
8:08 "miles being the first to know about his cannon event before it happens"I don't think this is right , Gwen is in a similar position to miles, her dad is captain but not dead yet and yet she's still in the spider society, same goes for pavitr he joined spider society and when he saw that inspector Singh was in trouble he still wanted to rescue him.
But like Toby Maguire doesn't even have a close relationship with the Staceys and nor does Holland, and at least with the vibes for Spectacular, I don't think Gwen was going to die in that show. So, the cannon events get called into question pretty heavily. Maybe Cp. Stacey would still die but the whole cannon part really seems like it's on shaky ground as it is. It's not like Batman, where the one inciting incident causes a vigilante to be born, who otherwise wouldn't exist. The only part of cannon for Spiderman that should really matter is the bite, as an evil Spiderman could theoretically exist too, or none at all as is the case with Earth 42 which still exists.
About Pavitr, i think that Miguel don't tell him about his captain. And about Gwen, it's because she is wanted in her universe, even for your own father, so Spider-Society is all that she has.
This was a very Nice and realistic Point of view to the Plot and I like the idea of Peter come back to his mind and will help Miles because its the right thing to do
Additional thoughts: I’m realistically on Miguel’s side here, don’t risk the entire MULTIVERSE just to save a single person. I guess I was just more curious on how ZERO people were on Miles’ side. It felt like there should’ve been more of a split. It’s probably because every other Spider-Man GENUINELY has tried every other way than just letting the canon events happen… and eventually decided that some deaths were necessary. Insomniac / PS4 Spider-Man is a good example. He had to pick between Aunt May and the entire city, in which case, he made the right choice and saved the city instead. Main point of this video was to give additional thoughts on why all the Spider-Men follow Miguel’s philosophy while clearly being conflicted… as opposed to Miles.
Also you should realize that Miles is a different character than peter, he never got "with great power comes great responsivility" uncle aaron told him "just keep going" so he might not have the same guilt as peter
Nice video @@SoFizzee and if x men 97s gets revived then we can get 5 seasons that were planned for spectacular spiderman back?? bcuz 5 seasons of spectacular spider-man were planned but got cancelled Plz reply
Also insomniac Peter will probably end up on miles side because there is no way Peter and or Miguel could convince insomniac miles to actually side with them that's why he's not there
Pretty sure ps5 spiderman was just a cameo but your right insomnac miles would never watch his father die again so maybe insomnac peter was just a cameo but idk
@@jamesclark6244 I just said that so there could be the miles trio because they're all in their Prime prowler miles astv miles and insomniac miles and also we could see insomniac Peter fight alongside with spectacular Peter
You know I would want insomniac miles to not side with any of them. First of all he wouldn't side with Miguel because he doesn't want to see his dad die again on the other hand he won't side with miles given that he understands what miles is putting at risk(billions of people) in savings there dad. He wouldknow that there dad wouldn't want to be the reason the whole world would collapse and may even tell miles to think about the possible consequence. Because thats the only problem I have with spider verse miles he doesn't truly understand how much his risking
I think a core reason as to why Spectator Spider-Man sided with Miguel is because of his explanation that police captains have to die in a Spider-Man story. As a young Spider-Man this would give him comfort as the responsibility wasn’t completely on his part. Josh Keaton said in an interview that he would easily be swayed by this philosophy cause of how new and event it was for him (or something like that it’s a great interview).
I always kinda had this idea. The events of the movie probably take place after the cancelled season 3 of Spectacular Spider Man so Peter's been through a lot and is able to understand Miguel's point of view better than Miles who's only been at it for a year and a half.
There’s also an added layer to Spectacular that I don’t really see get talked about all that much. And that’s Tombstone. After learning about the Big Man’s existence from Rhino, Peter goes to confront him. But does Tombstone antagonize him? No. Instead he immediately offers him a deal. He could still be a hero and fight crime, but the catch comes in the fact that occasionally he would have to look the other way for any crime that his criminal empire commits. This is especially hard for Peter as his entire origin revolves around him looking the other way and suffering such a huge loss because of it. And of course, Peter responds saying he will never look the other way again and in short, declares war on Tombstone and his empire. This theme appears practically every time Tombstone and Peter have an interaction. Heck the episode that follows directly afterwards with the Green Goblin fight has Tombstone calling out the irony of Spider-Man doing exactly what he wanted to hire him for and yet did it for free. With all of this coming to a head in the Valentine’s Day special. It’s just so powerful that a line we’ve been feed a hundred times over suddenly feels so fresh in this series. Because it’s not just the “with great power comes great responsibility”, but rather a narrowed down aspect of this theme. In most Spider-Man media it’s usually about being selfless and using your powers/gifts for the benefit of others. But here, they focus solely on how inaction to someone else’s dilema is just as bad as being self centered.
I feel like you just wrote a better video than me just now HAHAHA I loved that scene so much too, the dynamic between Tombstone and Spectacular is one I don’t see too many people talking about. How Tombstone offers the temptation of the EASY and PROFITABLE way, only for Spectacular to choose the RIGHT way instead was a great way to represent Peter’s philosophy in it’s entirety I appreciate the time u took to type all that out btw HAHAHA
@@SoFizzee Lol! I’m a bit obsessed with Spectacular compared to the other iterations. I grew up on that show only for it to get replaced mid-childhood by Ultimate. Felt like a colossal slap to my face by Disney. I love watching a lot of discussion videos on Spectacular and how amazing it does on creating the best adaptation for all its concepts, characters and writing. But somewhere along the way I picked up on how the writers not only understood what Spider-Man was, but broke down every aspect of him and his story to its core elements and put them under a microscope. Which is why everything feels so different yet the same. Anyway, yeah. I write a lot myself so I’m a bit thesis-ish when it comes to posts. Bad habit of mine really. And your video was great. Happy as I was to see my fav Spider-Man in the movie it was depressing to learn he was a part of Miguel’s side. So seeing you explore the why was interesting. And also 100% confirmed. If you look closely at the movie there are hints about how Miguel doesn’t recruit until after their canon event. He protests Gwen joining until her conflict with her dad changes his mind and then she goes to see Miles before his event despite being explicitly warned not to. So you’re right on the money.
Yep, even though the movie kinda makes Miguel the villain for chasing down Miles, and now everyone's bandwagoning on it with memes, I still understood what Miguel was trying to do.
@@insanenero2922 I actually got confused when people started calling him a villain online because I don't see him as one. He's an antagonist but he's for sure not a villain.
I personally think that change wasn't what the director had in mind, as in, it was clear in the first movie that the director and writers wanted Peter B. Parker to be *our* Spider-Man, AKA the comic Spider-Man we've all come to love, or at least the movie's adaptation of him. But then the fans wanted the movies to take place in the same multiverse as the comics, as opposed to its own multiverse, which the first movie was clearly trying to do, having Miles be from Earth 1610, not 1610B. But after people complained about the MCU trying to be an adaptation of Earth 616, Sony probably saw that and asked that Peter B. Parker's universe be changed, which is why his is the only one actually differentiated from the comics.
@@ridgenyan-botxv367 in across the spiderverse miguel o’hara refers to the mcu universe as 199999, and in an official marvel handbook released years ago it established the mcu universe as 199999, ik it’s called 616 in doctor strange 2 but it literally just isn’t lmao. 616 is and always has been the main comics continuity
Ive never understood how it would bring someone peace to know that something bad that happened HAD to happen. To me, that wpuld just make me not want to do anything or meet anyone new because they too might have to die so whats even the point of trying
I think Miguel is very good at making those who are already going through it to understand his stance on the "rules" of the multiverse Just look at the way Gwen was brought into the spider society A seemingly regular day fighting some different version of the vulture that then became one of the worst things that could've come from telling your loved ones that you're the masked vigilante and they keep their gun aimed at you. I could see why Gwen would join Miguel in this situation
Another thing i want to say is that every Spider man that has a watch, have ended stories, as in they have no more canon events cuz the shows/movies/comic they're in has stopped being made, so Miguel literally stalks every story till the algorithm says there cancelled or finished series and are free to rome between each others universes, its kinda like Rick n Morty showing that even tho we dont see these characters, dosent mean they've ceased to exist, there just no longer restricted to the authors writing.
Honestly I still think it shows how flawed Miguel is about Spider-man and how he took advantage of the Spider-men being on a unstable after that canon event
There one small thing that ensure from letting this canon event that future vision see glimpses of the spot over thousands of bodies of the spider society. Also in the original comics the second closed person to go wasn’t miles dad, it was his mother If they somehow in someway or fashioned bring The 90’s Spider-Man, aka the most influential Spider-Man, in the sequel along with Toei Spider-Man, I will scream until I get a heart attack
He's definitely standing with miles in the end shown on the across the spider verse picture with the people on the right side with him and the people on the left against him
people haven't really thought about the spot vision where there are several spider-men dead, which means all those spider-men try to fight and prevent him from doing whatever he was doing, probably killing Mile's dad, and I say probably because maybe he also tried destroying Mile's universe and well it doesn't make that much sense since his problem is with spider-man and it could be a easy way to deny the whole idea but anyway I like to think it was foreshadowing for a big team up in the 3rd movie
Im pretty sure why spectacular will join miles or gwen side is because in the poster, it shows each side of the spider people one with miguel and the other with gwen, on gwens side we see all the spider people shown siding with her at the end of the movie, and many many more including spectacular spider man, and on miguels side are the people who are on his side not gwens not including spectacular
That doesn't explain ANYTHING. We want to know WHY? WHY would Peter Parjer EVER take Miguel's "Sacrifice one for the many" side? And the answer is simple. He wouldn't. He would NEVER. The film as great as it is gets this VERY wrong. And is only done for the sake of pushing Miles as the "Hero".
The entire society is led to believe that if they stopped canon events by saving the person that the whole universe could potentially collapse. A bunch of them witnessed it happen too. I don't think that letting a universe die is the hard choice that Spider-Man would make, from the society's perspective it makes sense and is justified because they truly believe that there is no other way. Miles is different because he knows that what Miguel attributed to the canon event break in Pav's world was actually caused by The Spot, which is why he doesn't believe Miguel.
That’s true. Miguel said that he and all the other Spider-Men tried to save everyone, but it was ultimately too dangerous. Realistically, I would follow Miguel
I think another issue that arises from this conclusion - in terms of how a character feels about it is that it should fundamentally question the core philosophy of "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility". This assumes that you have the power to make choices, but if canon events are *fated* to happen then do you really have influence (or power)? Therefore, do you really bare the responsibility? This should be something that the characters within Spider-Verse question heavily and its something that I think alot of incarnations of Peter would disagree with. Spider-Man's foundation, as stated, was "a random bug bite". To say it was was fate, sorta makes him the chosen one. It looses a lot of what made his core appealing. Honestly, I would much rather the Canon Events not be a thing or turn out to be greatly misunderstood by 2099. I think that will be the most effective way to clean this up for Spider-Man fans. Those of a normal audience- tbh I don't think they would care lol
So all the Spidey’s who side with Miguel joined him after their canon events happen while Miles on the other hand learned of it before it would happen. So therefore, it would be only natural that Miles would fight back to ensure it didn’t happen.
Miguel might be more like a utilitarian in accomplishing his objective. Does not matter about "small mistakes" as long as the main objective is complete.
It’s funny that you make a video like this, I believe Josh said that Spectacular Spider-Man joined Miguel because he was young and naive and believed in Miguel’s reasoning that these events had to happen as well.
Pavitr joined the Spider Society before his canon event. Miles presented it so Pavitr leaves the Spider Society to help him. Your theory seems really accurate.
Well remember Gwen is putting together the opposing side to Miguel at the end of the movie anyway, so spectacular will probably just join them in the next one
After watching the second spider verse film i don't even know if miguel is trying to stop miles from saving his father. Maybe he really didn't know how to send miles to the right world since miles's an anomaly. They did a really good job at conceiling information on the spider society and since miguel is not good with words i can imagine him being bossy but saying what he doesn't mean (like saying that he's not letting miles go instead of not letting him go yet)
Josh keaton pretty much confirm this is right, but does give me more hate towards miguel, because if he came in to give a sense of "peace" to everyone after their canon events might been in the wrong moment Spider-man is usually not in the best emotionally after someones dead and does feel like a twisted way of him to look for relieve knowing he took down an entire universe which I believe Might had been because he was supposed to save that other hin instead of watching him die
You know, originally the Main Character of ITSV was gonna be Peter Parker but they changed it to Miles because of the ideas they had or some other reason. They still nailed at making Peter and Peter B. Parker seem great and heroic as usual especially for the 2 being Teachers (though Peter Parker died in the Opening of ITSV) they still succeeded at making the 2 Great. Though I didn’t like much of Peter B’s Character In ATSV it still managed to execute well.
I liked his character, I just thought he should've been in it more, so that a majority of his scenes weren't him exclusively being comic relief, but he was fun, and it's only part 1, so it's fine
Its not a character assassination when Peter tends to to try to find an easy out whenever push comes to shove sometimed. He usually moves past that after a while tho. Right now they are problably like this because we are still at the "fate determines my path not me" stage of the conversation because it is easier than taking active action to break and challange cemented multiversal ideals that for better or worse tell them "your trauma needed to happen its part of your being everything is alright actually".
I think he chose Miguel because he’s still in high school or early college and he may still be naive. Let’s be fr if thousands of spider-men who were still good people agreed on something wouldn’t you agree too? Miles is the stand out for a reason and already was shown to want to prove people wrong in the last movie when the others said he wasn’t good enough. It’s a character trait for miles.
i think in beyon one of two things will happen 1. tobey maguires spiderman will find out about this, (Miguel knows what happens in sm2 and knows that peter would not go for that. and would do anything to save others.) he will talk to the spider socioty and give life lessions like aunt may "we have to do the right thing, no matter what the cost, it is not up to us to decide who lives or who dies, its up to us to us to do the right thing, and save those in need, and not let one person die, i belive in you peters, you will do the right thing.." kinda thing (shleepy so its not perfect) 2. the EOT spidey does a simmilar thing. but his speech is more alinged like in game and be like "just like the other Miguel... look..if you can make an excuse to sit around and let someone die than you have no right to call yourself spiderman" convincing the spideys we love will change sides doing the right thing, some losing their lives for it. i think its more likely for tobey to be in ther script wise, he is the one to always try and talk sense into the enemy. he will use things he learned to talk sense into the other parkers. that "dream" in sm2 where he tells ben no hes peter parker fits this well. its very in character for tobey to do this. IMO
Wait wait. The drive to save other people caused by the guilt of a canon event hasn't happened for Miles Yet he is more of a true Spiderman without it... WHAT Ergh Whatever
Just had a thought. Miles himself is an anomaly right? Because he messes with the canon? What about MCU Spider-Man and the other live actions? We know that No-Way-Home was a big issue for Spider-society, but what necessarily hapoened to them? I know they arent apart of the Society, because they broke the canon in three different universes at the same time. Thats like, so much worse than Miles.
I think Miguels Spider Society feels kinda like a cult on purpose. Hes taking advantage of these Spider-Men by taking them at their most vulnerable and when they can most easily be manupulated. Just look at Gwen! Miguel shows up right when her whole life has fallen apart. Meanwhile look at the Spider's who rebel against him like Hobbie. With a Multiverse its very easy to explaun why these Peter's may take this action.
Peter Parker and Spider-Man were all about standing up for the “little guy” and making sure that nobody dies no matter what. But lately there’s been this really weird push that Miles is actually MORE about the “little guy” and that he ACTUALLY makes sure nobody dies. Feels weird how they sacrifice Peter just to push Miles. Noticed how Insomniac did this by making Miles specifically Harlem’s Spider-Man even though Spider-Man is legit ALL ABOUT being a hero for the people and being tied with community, but they push Miles as being an exaggerated version of that
I honestly thought this was the natural assumption you were supposed to make watching the film. The only Spider-Man we see be recruited who did not already have (at least one) of their canon events happen was Pavitr-Gwen was initially not being considered for recruitment and was only a part of the society because of extenuating circumstances and Miles was straight up never going to be considered.
Honestly, I didn’t really find it to be that much of a stretch when I first saw the film. On their own, yes Spider-Man will try to save the most amount of people ‘no matter what the cost’. But when you look at it from all these members of the Spider-Society. Learning that you’re story, your morals & your personal investment in being a spider themed hero has been done a thousand times over. You probably would gain a serious case of nihilism. Suddenly knowing that the people in your life who’ve died have died the exact same way for other heroes. Being told that it was an inevitability no matter what you did. As well as the fact that what you thought made you unique is now suddenly what makes you the same. I wasn’t really surprised that all the spider people just listened to Miguel afterwards. Because, what else are they really supposed to do when you realise your identity has been lost to a bunch of others.
Guilt is secondary but his main motivation on why HE alwasy goes being spidey is because of the motivation to do better and letting go of his narcissist and flawed attitude
Even though Across The Spider-Verse is one of the best films about Spider-Man, its also one of the worst when it comes to accurately portraying what it means to be Spider-Man.
what would happen if Miguel O’Hara told other heroes their Canon event like Captain America,Superman,Batman,Ironman,Ben 10,Freakazoid,Captain Planet,Invincible,Generator Rex,Power Puff Girls,Danny Phantom,Sora(Kingdom Hearts ),Pit(Kid Icarus) and Link(Legend of the Zelda)! The heroes would never let people die. They would stand up for what they believe is right.
The simplest answer is often the right one in this case they obviously did this to make miles look better. The idea of any Peter joining a multiversal police force already detracts from his character it’s no longer about one man taking on the weight of the world it suddenly makes him a dime a dozen . Spider society is stupid anyways because spider powers are not equipped to handle multiversal threats, supermen, green lanterns and sorcerers are more believable in this context. It worked better in comics because there’s a unique threat to the spider characters. They’re stripping Peters essence so miles can come in and fix it and they’re probably gonna do it again in Spider-Man PS5 , he didn’t need miles before and he doesn’t need him now if miles want to actually do his own thing he should go to a world without peter get his own name, villains and original stories. Everything interesting about him is stolen from Peter.
Saying "his canon event" is misleading. There are multiple canon events and they are shared across the Spider-People. Your point does make sense though, specially with this movie showing Spectacular's Gwen's death. I think being told his love's death was part of this bigger picture is a large part of what would lead him to join the Spider-Society.
Nah you saw that edge of time clip and the guy who voices Peter is the guy who voices spectacular Spider-Man bro he would def side with miles and no one can really stop him
Miguel was always right bc if miles saves his dad he could put his own universe at risk we even saw that when they were trying to save a universe from eating itself up and they failed to do that
Who's YOUR Favorite Spider-Man of all time? All answers are valid !!!
(Don't you even dare bring up Lotus)
Japanese spiderman
1. Ultimate spiderman
2. 1994 spiderman
3. Spectacular spiderman
4. Andrew garfield spiderman
5. Tobey maguire spiderman
6. TASM games spiderman
7. 1967 spiderman
8. Marvel's spider man cartoon
8. Marvel's spider man game
Probably 90s Spider-Man TAS, but I'm not gonna lie Spectacular is reeeaaal close Insomniac is great too
the nigga spider
In the real world I will always feel connected with Andrew Garfield's Peter Parker
Spectacular spider man's canon event was his show getting cancelled, so when miguel told him it was disney's fault, he decided to join
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@@SoFizzeestop laughing this is his canon canon event :(
Real.
Damn the truth hurts
thats not what canon events areee
Man, I'm glad everyone is going back to Spider-Man edge of Time and realizing how important that clip was!
Edge of time in general is so underrated
@@SoFizzee Definitely!
Exactly
Edge of time is amazing
This is a great explanation, someone even theorized that insomniac Spider-Man joined because after aunt may died he understood that sacrifices must be made
PS4 peter looked so heartbroken when may died sad man.
@@just8or494 ik, but he had no other option, they needed the full sample to cure all of new york
Tbh I think it was more of a cameo of insomnac in the movie and not actually him in the spider society because it does not really fit in with the story much
@@jamesclark6244it actually is him
I don’t think insomniac was even fully part of the society because he was only in one scene and it was a completely different alternate cartoony model that was part of the chase
This is probably the most unique take ive seen on this whole debate and I couldnt agree with it more
So real so real
@@SoFizzeeyeah this is so real that i’m subbing to you
It's basically been confirmed by his actor Josh Keaton exactly this and that he would join Miles' side if given the reason and chance. Also in the poster with miles upside down and everyone else in the background there's two sides that represents Miles' or Miguel's, spectaculars is on the side of Miles.
He also explained why spectacular joined miguel so...
I think it's also important to note here that all of these Spider-People primarily joined not to "protect the canon" by allowing Canon events but rather to put genuine anomalies, often super villains, back home. There's a level of compromise that has to be made to operate under Miguel but the core reason why a lot of these people probably still stick around despite the knowledge of allowing canon events is because they still feel the need to help. There is a problem that only working with Miguel can fix and they can't turn their back on that even if Miguel makes them turn their back on others, they don't have much of a choice when it's shown Miguel can monitor them and such (also seeing how he is willing to resort to violence as shown with Miles). It's a really tricky situation which i think is handled really well and goes back to "You can save everyone if you look the other way." I don't think they want to but as Spectacular himself says: "I know it's hard, but it's the truth Miles." To stop anomalies you have to play by the book... unless you do your own thing. Which I think Miles is going to show everyone, you can do.
At first, i was very upset at the idea that insomniac spidey would side with miguel. I was like "but he's been through a similar situation before when he had to sacrifice aunt may for the whole of new york city! Why would he want miles to also go through it?" I had someone explain to me that its exactly because hes been through this situation before that he knows at some point, some things are unavoidable and its probably better to accept that
That’s true, I kinda regret not making a script to this vid cause I should’ve tackled insmoniac’s situation
It's Just a cameo
Idk I feel like insomniac was just a cameo and yeah he had to make that sacrifice but I wonder how insomnac miles would feel about it
@andrealveshjr there's a spiderverse reference in spiderman 2
If you think about it, insomniac Peters situation at the end of the first game has the same philosophy as Miguel, let one person die to save many many others. Itd make sense why he’d join Miguel
8:08 "miles being the first to know about his cannon event before it happens"I don't think this is right , Gwen is in a similar position to miles, her dad is captain but not dead yet and yet she's still in the spider society, same goes for pavitr he joined spider society and when he saw that inspector Singh was in trouble he still wanted to rescue him.
Right. She lost Peter. He lost uncle aaron... i kinda thought gwen was going to lose her dad.
Ok wait ur right, I didn’t think about that HAHAH
But like Toby Maguire doesn't even have a close relationship with the Staceys and nor does Holland, and at least with the vibes for Spectacular, I don't think Gwen was going to die in that show. So, the cannon events get called into question pretty heavily. Maybe Cp. Stacey would still die but the whole cannon part really seems like it's on shaky ground as it is.
It's not like Batman, where the one inciting incident causes a vigilante to be born, who otherwise wouldn't exist. The only part of cannon for Spiderman that should really matter is the bite, as an evil Spiderman could theoretically exist too, or none at all as is the case with Earth 42 which still exists.
About Pavitr, i think that Miguel don't tell him about his captain. And about Gwen, it's because she is wanted in her universe, even for your own father, so Spider-Society is all that she has.
This was a very Nice and realistic Point of view to the Plot and I like the idea of Peter come back to his mind and will help Miles because its the right thing to do
Additional thoughts:
I’m realistically on Miguel’s side here, don’t risk the entire MULTIVERSE just to save a single person.
I guess I was just more curious on how ZERO people were on Miles’ side. It felt like there should’ve been more of a split.
It’s probably because every other Spider-Man GENUINELY has tried every other way than just letting the canon events happen… and eventually decided that some deaths were necessary.
Insomniac / PS4 Spider-Man is a good example. He had to pick between Aunt May and the entire city, in which case, he made the right choice and saved the city instead.
Main point of this video was to give additional thoughts on why all the Spider-Men follow Miguel’s philosophy while clearly being conflicted…
as opposed to Miles.
I honestly think Miguel picked spectacular up after captain Stacy’s death he would have been at his lowest
Really good theory
especially considering we literally see that event in the movie with voice acting @@SoFizzee
Also you should realize that Miles is a different character than peter, he never got "with great power comes great responsivility" uncle aaron told him "just keep going" so he might not have the same guilt as peter
True, that SPECIFIC line is a Peter Parker exclusive (mostly)
Other versions of Spider-Man just KIND OF follow it, but not as much as Pete
Nice video @@SoFizzee and if x men 97s gets revived then we can get 5 seasons that were planned for spectacular spiderman back?? bcuz 5 seasons of spectacular spider-man were planned but got cancelled
Plz reply
Also insomniac Peter will probably end up on miles side because there is no way Peter and or Miguel could convince insomniac miles to actually side with them that's why he's not there
Pretty sure ps5 spiderman was just a cameo but your right insomnac miles would never watch his father die again so maybe insomnac peter was just a cameo but idk
@@jamesclark6244 I just said that so there could be the miles trio because they're all in their Prime prowler miles astv miles and insomniac miles and also we could see insomniac Peter fight alongside with spectacular Peter
You know I would want insomniac miles to not side with any of them. First of all he wouldn't side with Miguel because he doesn't want to see his dad die again on the other hand he won't side with miles given that he understands what miles is putting at risk(billions of people) in savings there dad. He wouldknow that there dad wouldn't want to be the reason the whole world would collapse and may even tell miles to think about the possible consequence.
Because thats the only problem I have with spider verse miles he doesn't truly understand how much his risking
To be fair the insom peter we saw talk and was listed never chased miles (he was in the 2.0 suit while any other insom peter was in the 1.0 suit)
I think a core reason as to why Spectator Spider-Man sided with Miguel is because of his explanation that police captains have to die in a Spider-Man story. As a young Spider-Man this would give him comfort as the responsibility wasn’t completely on his part. Josh Keaton said in an interview that he would easily be swayed by this philosophy cause of how new and event it was for him (or something like that it’s a great interview).
I always kinda had this idea. The events of the movie probably take place after the cancelled season 3 of Spectacular Spider Man so Peter's been through a lot and is able to understand Miguel's point of view better than Miles who's only been at it for a year and a half.
There’s also an added layer to Spectacular that I don’t really see get talked about all that much. And that’s Tombstone. After learning about the Big Man’s existence from Rhino, Peter goes to confront him. But does Tombstone antagonize him? No. Instead he immediately offers him a deal. He could still be a hero and fight crime, but the catch comes in the fact that occasionally he would have to look the other way for any crime that his criminal empire commits. This is especially hard for Peter as his entire origin revolves around him looking the other way and suffering such a huge loss because of it. And of course, Peter responds saying he will never look the other way again and in short, declares war on Tombstone and his empire. This theme appears practically every time Tombstone and Peter have an interaction. Heck the episode that follows directly afterwards with the Green Goblin fight has Tombstone calling out the irony of Spider-Man doing exactly what he wanted to hire him for and yet did it for free. With all of this coming to a head in the Valentine’s Day special.
It’s just so powerful that a line we’ve been feed a hundred times over suddenly feels so fresh in this series. Because it’s not just the “with great power comes great responsibility”, but rather a narrowed down aspect of this theme. In most Spider-Man media it’s usually about being selfless and using your powers/gifts for the benefit of others. But here, they focus solely on how inaction to someone else’s dilema is just as bad as being self centered.
I feel like you just wrote a better video than me just now HAHAHA
I loved that scene so much too, the dynamic between Tombstone and Spectacular is one I don’t see too many people talking about. How Tombstone offers the temptation of the EASY and PROFITABLE way, only for Spectacular to choose the RIGHT way instead was a great way to represent Peter’s philosophy in it’s entirety
I appreciate the time u took to type all that out btw HAHAHA
@@SoFizzee Lol! I’m a bit obsessed with Spectacular compared to the other iterations. I grew up on that show only for it to get replaced mid-childhood by Ultimate. Felt like a colossal slap to my face by Disney.
I love watching a lot of discussion videos on Spectacular and how amazing it does on creating the best adaptation for all its concepts, characters and writing. But somewhere along the way I picked up on how the writers not only understood what Spider-Man was, but broke down every aspect of him and his story to its core elements and put them under a microscope. Which is why everything feels so different yet the same.
Anyway, yeah. I write a lot myself so I’m a bit thesis-ish when it comes to posts. Bad habit of mine really. And your video was great. Happy as I was to see my fav Spider-Man in the movie it was depressing to learn he was a part of Miguel’s side. So seeing you explore the why was interesting. And also 100% confirmed. If you look closely at the movie there are hints about how Miguel doesn’t recruit until after their canon event. He protests Gwen joining until her conflict with her dad changes his mind and then she goes to see Miles before his event despite being explicitly warned not to. So you’re right on the money.
Its nice to see that someone else's favourite spiderman is spectacular spiderman
I do wonder how Spectacular Spider-Man would've interacted with Miles if he was in the first Spider-Verse movie.
Even tho I'm on Miguel's side here I'm so fucking glad this video got recommended to me. You deserve WAY MORE subs this shit is awesome.
Yep, even though the movie kinda makes Miguel the villain for chasing down Miles, and now everyone's bandwagoning on it with memes, I still understood what Miguel was trying to do.
@@insanenero2922 I actually got confused when people started calling him a villain online because I don't see him as one. He's an antagonist but he's for sure not a villain.
Personally, I’m on Miguel’s side. He’s not a villain or anything, he’s just the guy making the hard choice.
Also THANK YOUUU
@@SoFizzee I honestly felt bad for Miguel because I thought nobody sided with him
@@jaroslavpohoral1897 just curious what makes you say Miguel how would you counter the points presented by people on team miles?
Plus, Peter B is from Earth 616B. So that would mean that the main Spider-Man must be from 616A, I hope we see him in Beyond the Spider-Verse!! 🙏🏾🕷🕸
I personally think that change wasn't what the director had in mind, as in, it was clear in the first movie that the director and writers wanted Peter B. Parker to be *our* Spider-Man, AKA the comic Spider-Man we've all come to love, or at least the movie's adaptation of him. But then the fans wanted the movies to take place in the same multiverse as the comics, as opposed to its own multiverse, which the first movie was clearly trying to do, having Miles be from Earth 1610, not 1610B. But after people complained about the MCU trying to be an adaptation of Earth 616, Sony probably saw that and asked that Peter B. Parker's universe be changed, which is why his is the only one actually differentiated from the comics.
@@TheAMVDorfthe mcu is earth 199999, not 616, 616 is the main marvel comics continuity
@@chikinonfrydainot according to Dr strange 2
@@ridgenyan-botxv367 in across the spiderverse miguel o’hara refers to the mcu universe as 199999, and in an official marvel handbook released years ago it established the mcu universe as 199999, ik it’s called 616 in doctor strange 2 but it literally just isn’t lmao. 616 is and always has been the main comics continuity
Ive never understood how it would bring someone peace to know that something bad that happened HAD to happen. To me, that wpuld just make me not want to do anything or meet anyone new because they too might have to die so whats even the point of trying
I think Miguel is very good at making those who are already going through it to understand his stance on the "rules" of the multiverse
Just look at the way Gwen was brought into the spider society
A seemingly regular day fighting some different version of the vulture that then became one of the worst things that could've come from telling your loved ones that you're the masked vigilante and they keep their gun aimed at you.
I could see why Gwen would join Miguel in this situation
In the grand calculus of the multiverse, their sacrifice means infinitely… SQUAT!
Another thing i want to say is that every Spider man that has a watch, have ended stories, as in they have no more canon events cuz the shows/movies/comic they're in has stopped being made, so Miguel literally stalks every story till the algorithm says there cancelled or finished series and are free to rome between each others universes, its kinda like Rick n Morty showing that even tho we dont see these characters, dosent mean they've ceased to exist, there just no longer restricted to the authors writing.
Everyone talks about how all spidermen who joined the society already had their canon events but no one mentions indian spiderman
I don't think he knows about cannon events at all
Josh Keaton explained why he thinks Spectacular was on Miguel’s side too.
Honestly I still think it shows how flawed Miguel is about Spider-man and how he took advantage of the Spider-men being on a unstable after that canon event
There one small thing that ensure from letting this canon event that future vision see glimpses of the spot over thousands of bodies of the spider society. Also in the original comics the second closed person to go wasn’t miles dad, it was his mother
If they somehow in someway or fashioned bring The 90’s Spider-Man, aka the most influential Spider-Man, in the sequel along with Toei Spider-Man, I will scream until I get a heart attack
2:58 well technically Miguel O’Hara only doing it out of obligation while following his goal
FINALLY someone mentioned. Seeing insomniac and spectacular turn into multiverse cops was so disappointing.
He's definitely standing with miles in the end shown on the across the spider verse picture with the people on the right side with him and the people on the left against him
Uhh- Peter B isn't the same Peter as the one from Edge of Time. That Peter was from his own continuity.
people haven't really thought about the spot vision where there are several spider-men dead, which means all those spider-men try to fight and prevent him from doing whatever he was doing, probably killing Mile's dad, and I say probably because maybe he also tried destroying Mile's universe and well it doesn't make that much sense since his problem is with spider-man and it could be a easy way to deny the whole idea but anyway I like to think it was foreshadowing for a big team up in the 3rd movie
Im pretty sure why spectacular will join miles or gwen side is because in the poster, it shows each side of the spider people one with miguel and the other with gwen, on gwens side we see all the spider people shown siding with her at the end of the movie, and many many more including spectacular spider man, and on miguels side are the people who are on his side not gwens not including spectacular
That doesn't explain ANYTHING.
We want to know WHY? WHY would Peter Parjer EVER take Miguel's "Sacrifice one for the many" side?
And the answer is simple. He wouldn't. He would NEVER.
The film as great as it is gets this VERY wrong. And is only done for the sake of pushing Miles as the "Hero".
This video is what we all needed.
This is the best take I've seen on this debate by far, I 100% agree with your points. Excellent video dude, keep it up!
as soon as i heard the debate i thought of the edge of time cutscene and how mirrored it was
love you homie spectacular was my childhood too great video
The entire society is led to believe that if they stopped canon events by saving the person that the whole universe could potentially collapse. A bunch of them witnessed it happen too. I don't think that letting a universe die is the hard choice that Spider-Man would make, from the society's perspective it makes sense and is justified because they truly believe that there is no other way. Miles is different because he knows that what Miguel attributed to the canon event break in Pav's world was actually caused by The Spot, which is why he doesn't believe Miguel.
That’s true. Miguel said that he and all the other Spider-Men tried to save everyone, but it was ultimately too dangerous.
Realistically, I would follow Miguel
This is the best explanation video. No bs just truth, im subbing and liking
I think another issue that arises from this conclusion - in terms of how a character feels about it is that it should fundamentally question the core philosophy of "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility". This assumes that you have the power to make choices, but if canon events are *fated* to happen then do you really have influence (or power)? Therefore, do you really bare the responsibility?
This should be something that the characters within Spider-Verse question heavily and its something that I think alot of incarnations of Peter would disagree with. Spider-Man's foundation, as stated, was "a random bug bite". To say it was was fate, sorta makes him the chosen one. It looses a lot of what made his core appealing.
Honestly, I would much rather the Canon Events not be a thing or turn out to be greatly misunderstood by 2099. I think that will be the most effective way to clean this up for Spider-Man fans. Those of a normal audience- tbh I don't think they would care lol
Earth 42 didn't even fall apart without Miles getting bit, there's no Spiderman but the world still exists. It simply adapted.
@@scottjs5207 I don’t see how that’s related and even then it fell apart in a different sense
I completely agree with you
All of these spidermen are post these “canon” events if any of them had another event come up they’d fight too
i'm hoping 90"s spiderman will appear in the next film
So all the Spidey’s who side with Miguel joined him after their canon events happen while Miles on the other hand learned of it before it would happen. So therefore, it would be only natural that Miles would fight back to ensure it didn’t happen.
Miguel might be more like a utilitarian in accomplishing his objective. Does not matter about "small mistakes" as long as the main objective is complete.
It’s funny that you make a video like this, I believe Josh said that Spectacular Spider-Man joined Miguel because he was young and naive and believed in Miguel’s reasoning that these events had to happen as well.
No matter how many spiders there are out there in the multiverse, peter will always be everyone's favorite besides the other spider people
This video is stellar, the editing, the style, this is great
Pavitr joined the Spider Society before his canon event. Miles presented it so Pavitr leaves the Spider Society to help him. Your theory seems really accurate.
I hope Spectacular joins the main bunch and becomes more of a main character in the next movie
He won't because the writers need to prop up their Black, Trans, woke activist Spider thems
What?
@@mochii813whoa buddy, that's twitter jumping to conclusions, not the writers' fault
@@mochii813My brother in Christ it's not that deep
Who's the trans Spider-Man anyways?
I really like this explanation. Very good video.
Well remember Gwen is putting together the opposing side to Miguel at the end of the movie anyway, so spectacular will probably just join them in the next one
What about Tobey Maguires Spider-Man what do you think the sam raimi version would of done if he was there in Miguel's lair ?
After watching the second spider verse film i don't even know if miguel is trying to stop miles from saving his father. Maybe he really didn't know how to send miles to the right world since miles's an anomaly. They did a really good job at conceiling information on the spider society and since miguel is not good with words i can imagine him being bossy but saying what he doesn't mean (like saying that he's not letting miles go instead of not letting him go yet)
After watching this, I really wanna binge watch Spectacular Spider-Man
Josh keaton pretty much confirm this is right, but does give me more hate towards miguel, because if he came in to give a sense of "peace" to everyone after their canon events might been in the wrong moment Spider-man is usually not in the best emotionally after someones dead and does feel like a twisted way of him to look for relieve knowing he took down an entire universe which I believe Might had been because he was supposed to save that other hin instead of watching him die
You know, originally the Main Character of ITSV was gonna be Peter Parker but they changed it to Miles because of the ideas they had or some other reason. They still nailed at making Peter and Peter B. Parker seem great and heroic as usual especially for the 2 being Teachers (though Peter Parker died in the Opening of ITSV) they still succeeded at making the 2 Great. Though I didn’t like much of Peter B’s Character In ATSV it still managed to execute well.
I liked his character, I just thought he should've been in it more, so that a majority of his scenes weren't him exclusively being comic relief, but he was fun, and it's only part 1, so it's fine
Its not a character assassination when Peter tends to to try to find an easy out whenever push comes to shove sometimed. He usually moves past that after a while tho.
Right now they are problably like this because we are still at the "fate determines my path not me" stage of the conversation because it is easier than taking active action to break and challange cemented multiversal ideals that for better or worse tell them "your trauma needed to happen its part of your being everything is alright actually".
I think he chose Miguel because he’s still in high school or early college and he may still be naive. Let’s be fr if thousands of spider-men who were still good people agreed on something wouldn’t you agree too? Miles is the stand out for a reason and already was shown to want to prove people wrong in the last movie when the others said he wasn’t good enough. It’s a character trait for miles.
I agree, I don’t think Spectacular would’ve been on Miguel’s side
this was a great video dude
i think in beyon one of two things will happen
1. tobey maguires spiderman will find out about this, (Miguel knows what happens in sm2 and knows that peter would not go for that. and would do anything to save others.) he will talk to the spider socioty and give life lessions like aunt may "we have to do the right thing, no matter what the cost, it is not up to us to decide who lives or who dies, its up to us to us to do the right thing, and save those in need, and not let one person die, i belive in you peters, you will do the right thing.." kinda thing (shleepy so its not perfect)
2. the EOT spidey does a simmilar thing. but his speech is more alinged like in game and be like "just like the other Miguel... look..if you can make an excuse to sit around and let someone die than you have no right to call yourself spiderman" convincing the spideys we love will change sides doing the right thing, some losing their lives for it.
i think its more likely for tobey to be in ther script wise, he is the one to always try and talk sense into the enemy. he will use things he learned to talk sense into the other parkers. that "dream" in sm2 where he tells ben no hes peter parker fits this well. its very in character for tobey to do this.
IMO
This is also backed up by the short clip on screen of Spectacular's gwen being dead
I think we need in another episode of movie a orginal 616 spider-man from comic. I know theres is spiderman 616 but is from alternateve earth 616.
I was born with the ultimate spiderman.
Such an amazing video!
I’m definitely subbing man. You’re dope ❤🙌🏾
Wait wait. The drive to save other people caused by the guilt of a canon event hasn't happened for Miles
Yet he is more of a true Spiderman without it... WHAT
Ergh Whatever
This is what happens when you focus on agenda pushing instead of actually trying to get characters right.
Just had a thought.
Miles himself is an anomaly right? Because he messes with the canon?
What about MCU Spider-Man and the other live actions? We know that No-Way-Home was a big issue for Spider-society, but what necessarily hapoened to them? I know they arent apart of the Society, because they broke the canon in three different universes at the same time. Thats like, so much worse than Miles.
Edge of time was peak
Would it help if this Spectacular Spider-Man isn’t the same one from the original series?
But didnt Spiderman India joined the spider society before his canon event?
I think Miguels Spider Society feels kinda like a cult on purpose. Hes taking advantage of these Spider-Men by taking them at their most vulnerable and when they can most easily be manupulated. Just look at Gwen! Miguel shows up right when her whole life has fallen apart. Meanwhile look at the Spider's who rebel against him like Hobbie. With a Multiverse its very easy to explaun why these Peter's may take this action.
I feel that's a massive misrepresentation.
Miguel didn't even want to take Gwen into the society.
Was PS4 Spiderman even in the chase?
Peter Parker and Spider-Man were all about standing up for the “little guy” and making sure that nobody dies no matter what. But lately there’s been this really weird push that Miles is actually MORE about the “little guy” and that he ACTUALLY makes sure nobody dies. Feels weird how they sacrifice Peter just to push Miles. Noticed how Insomniac did this by making Miles specifically Harlem’s Spider-Man even though Spider-Man is legit ALL ABOUT being a hero for the people and being tied with community, but they push Miles as being an exaggerated version of that
This was/is a really well done video.
Beyond better have all the peters join miles side. Like PS4 literally has a Miles you would think he would switch sides.
I honestly thought this was the natural assumption you were supposed to make watching the film. The only Spider-Man we see be recruited who did not already have (at least one) of their canon events happen was Pavitr-Gwen was initially not being considered for recruitment and was only a part of the society because of extenuating circumstances and Miles was straight up never going to be considered.
Honestly, I didn’t really find it to be that much of a stretch when I first saw the film. On their own, yes Spider-Man will try to save the most amount of people ‘no matter what the cost’. But when you look at it from all these members of the Spider-Society. Learning that you’re story, your morals & your personal investment in being a spider themed hero has been done a thousand times over. You probably would gain a serious case of nihilism. Suddenly knowing that the people in your life who’ve died have died the exact same way for other heroes. Being told that it was an inevitability no matter what you did. As well as the fact that what you thought made you unique is now suddenly what makes you the same. I wasn’t really surprised that all the spider people just listened to Miguel afterwards. Because, what else are they really supposed to do when you realise your identity has been lost to a bunch of others.
This is honestly a really great take
Guilt is secondary but his main motivation on why HE alwasy goes being spidey is because of the motivation to do better and letting go of his narcissist and flawed attitude
In my opinoin, I think all the spider people will turn on Miguel, Instead of all eof us just wanting one of thousands to make the right choice
Even though Across The Spider-Verse is one of the best films about Spider-Man, its also one of the worst when it comes to accurately portraying what it means to be Spider-Man.
Mind elaborating on that if you don't mind me asking?
what would happen if Miguel O’Hara told other heroes their Canon event like Captain America,Superman,Batman,Ironman,Ben 10,Freakazoid,Captain Planet,Invincible,Generator Rex,Power Puff Girls,Danny Phantom,Sora(Kingdom Hearts ),Pit(Kid Icarus) and Link(Legend of the Zelda)! The heroes would never let people die. They would stand up for what they believe is right.
They changed from "I didn't save him" to "I won't save him"
i miss spectacular spider-man so much
I just wish he has enough screen time to show he believe's in miles cause more now something like that
Great video bro
The simplest answer is often the right one in this case they obviously did this to make miles look better. The idea of any Peter joining a multiversal police force already detracts from his character it’s no longer about one man taking on the weight of the world it suddenly makes him a dime a dozen . Spider society is stupid anyways because spider powers are not equipped to handle multiversal threats, supermen, green lanterns and sorcerers are more believable in this context. It worked better in comics because there’s a unique threat to the spider characters. They’re stripping Peters essence so miles can come in and fix it and they’re probably gonna do it again in Spider-Man PS5 , he didn’t need miles before and he doesn’t need him now if miles want to actually do his own thing he should go to a world without peter get his own name, villains and original stories. Everything interesting about him is stolen from Peter.
He literally has Earth 1610B, but he caused his Spider man to die so I can't enjoy these movies
Nope just remembered he’s actually on Miguel’s team.
i love the web sound s tssm
Saying "his canon event" is misleading. There are multiple canon events and they are shared across the Spider-People.
Your point does make sense though, specially with this movie showing Spectacular's Gwen's death. I think being told his love's death was part of this bigger picture is a large part of what would lead him to join the Spider-Society.
Maybe Miguel O'hara is right and Spectacular understands that.
The goat
Not to mention his Gwen died already too.
Edge of time Peter Parker would’ve been in miles side
What about insomniac's Spiderman letting Aunt May die?
Nah you saw that edge of time clip and the guy who voices Peter is the guy who voices spectacular Spider-Man bro he would def side with miles and no one can really stop him
Miguel was always right bc if miles saves his dad he could put his own universe at risk we even saw that when they were trying to save a universe from eating itself up and they failed to do that
I was so sad about spectacular Spider-Man but thank god this explains why he sided with racist spiderman