mClassic - How good is it? Compared to Retrotink5x, OSSC, GCVideo. (Switch, XBOX 360, PS2, GC, DC)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- ► Subscribe to my TH-cam Channel bit.ly/3tu8Vwl
► Follow me on Twitter: bit.ly/3k7Cst6
00:00 Intro
00:05 What is the mClassic?
00:48 XBOX 360: mClassic
02:04 Switch: mCLassic
03:35 Dreamcast: mClassic vs OSSC
04:15 PS2: mClassic vs Retrotink5x PRO
05:09 Gamecube: MClassic vs Retrotink5x PRO vs GCvideo
#retroconsoles #hdmiadapter #gaming #retro #consoles #bestsettings #retro #retrotink #antialiasing #comparison #outputquality #optimaltimings #retrotink5x #smoothing #PS2 #best #component #RGB #hdmi #Switch #Nintendo #XBOX360 #Microsoft #Mclassic #Playstation #image #upscaled #Carby #Gamecube #Dreamcast - เกม
My conclusion: The focus of this video is to show the enhancement features of the mclassic in fair way compared to other scalers/linedoublers and HMDI consoles.
Please consider that the mclassics 1440p mode might be not compatible with your 4K TV so the upscaled and enhanced image will look less sharp compared to the other options shown in this video.
The upscale capabilities of the mclassic are minor IMO. The color enhancements might look great for many but they can be misleading to make the image appear sharper than it is and can cause issues in darker and bright areas. The main feature why you might consider to buy the mClassic is the smoothing (anti-aliasing) filter. This is where the mclassic strength lies especially with 480i games and games with interpolation blur (including the PS3)
When it comes to many XBOX 360 and Switch games I don't see any big benefits to use it.
I use it on 360. It's worth using it on there if you have a Mclassic. Games from that generation aren't the sharpest or cleanest of images and the Mclassic in my eyes on 360 helps. Especially since the 360 uses 2xMSAA or 4xMSAA for its games. I've tried many games on 360 and PS3 with it at this point. The only issue I've had is the black crush. But if you have a good enough TV with features like a Local Dimming/Full Array Backlight and a OLED or QLED screen among other features. You can eliminate it or mitigate it quite a bit. Oh! And Mclassic is a must for games like Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition. It improves the image quality quite a bit. So I'd say Mclassic is great on Switch also. And I've tried many games with it on Switch. I pretty much have the Switch Pro with it.
@@WllKiedSnake Nice to hear that you are happy with the mClassic.
The black crush comes in first place from different color range between the console/mclassic and tv. Adjust the color range to RGB limited or full on your TV.
..but there is also a black crush and overexposed image due to higher contrast and saturation. Once you have decreased and adjusted saturation and contrast the image will look less sharp. I think that the "trick" used by the mclassic many gamers don't realize
I could never get it working in 1440p, even on my 1440p monitor.. the monitor is ultrawide tho, so that mite be why
@@wobblingpixels3921 I ended up turning on Auto Contrast Control on my TV. And that mitigated the issue quite a bit. People who have some of these new fancy TV's have a wider colour gambit and backlight to get over the blackcrush issue from what I've seen. You know how these new TV's will turn off individual LED's based on if its in the dark area or the light. This will allow you to overcome blackcrush issues from what I've seen and just better colour depth alone on OLED and QLED TV's. Just many ways to overcome a issue like this that you'd get from the Mclassic.
@@WllKiedSnake Once the mclassic clipped the details with high contrast as you can see here: 4:24min you can't fix it entirely. You can adjust contrast and brightness to some level as I did in this video but you will never get the original image. If you lower the contrast to much the image will look washed out and dimm without bringing the details back.
bro, this is the greatest comparison of the Mclassic I've seen, the difference in contrast and how it pertains to details being clipped is eye-opening.
I have a MClassic dongle and the difference is night and day. Worth it every penny.
The PC version of this Is called Lossless Scaling. It would be nice if someone uploaded a video of this combined with Lossless Scaling. The application is only $5 on steam. It converts 720p games to 4k if you have a 4k TV. 720p would be 1080p if you have 1080p TV.
Very glad you did this. I'm so tired of people saying the mClassic is just snake oil. I do think it over promises a lot in its marketing and that criticism is 100% valid (4k scaling? I think not!), and I do wish all of its features were separate toggles, but overall I've enjoyed the output from it.
If it doesn't do what it promises to do, like you just admitted yourself, then it is snake oil. Blame the marketing department telling lies, not the people truthfully calling them out.
And just to be clear, "Snake oil is a term used to describe deceptive marketing, health care fraud, or a scam."
Undeniably, the mClassic is snake oil. That doesn't change until the company stops lying.
@@mjc0961 difference being though that it DOES do 4K, just not for gaming. Only works at 4K30. 'Snake oil' comes from peddlers trying to sell actual snake oil while simply making up benefits, often with staged showcases and paid actors touting the benefits. What the mClassic does IS real, and MEASURABLE, so by the nature of the expression can't be 'snake oil'. If YOU want to interpret it that way, that's fine, but don't treat it as fact.
@@Mastersaifer It is pretty impressive being on a PS3 and getting a Bluray to upscale to 4k when the PS3 isn't even able to display that resolution. Haha!
@@WllKiedSnake Least talked about feature which gets no love.
You're tired of people telling it's snake oil because it's true.
I have a frammeister and the mclassic. Sometimes I run them together and it does make a big difference when it comes to 4k TVs. I would not use it for 2D unless you like the blurred edges, but the AA features alone make a noticeable difference for older 3D games. It is worth the money considering how little it cost compared to more expensive upscalers. Most everyone is not going to be playing games with their face right up on a 4k TV. When viewed from a distance is where everything really starts to be noticeable.
Very well put together video, good stuff!
Great job on this video. mClassic can be a difficult to explain, but you picked some really good examples and put them side by side with other relevant solutions. It's another tool in the toolbox, and sometimes it works great, but sometimes you just need another tool.
I think it works really good with PS2/gamecube/xbox era gamecube era games and if you combine with another really good scaler like the retrotink 5X they work really well together. It also does wonders for the switch and 720p signals in general like the PS3 and 360.
Great vid!! I did notice allot of people using the mclassic with hdmi converters and not setting the console to output the game at its native game resolution, the problem with that is depending on the component to hdmi converters they tend to output at a higher resolution and consoles like the ps3 or 360 outputting a 1080p picture for a 720-900p game its not allowing the mclassic to do most of its work, i use a DVDO to convert the 480i to 480p or 480p component to 480p hdmi and get good results with that, not tink5 good though, I also set all my ps3 and 360 games to run at 720p, again its no tink5 but it looks good... I really want a retrotink5
There are a few PS3 games that are 1080p. The God of War Collection Volume 2 and Ico HD and Shadow of Colossus HD. Well Shadow of Colossus HD is 960×1080p but the Mclassic will still improve it while the PS3 is set at 1080p.
@@WllKiedSnake It's always surprising to spot the ones that run at native 1080p like Lego Indiana Jones, Transformers, and Kung Fu panda, Okami surprisingly renders at 4k it's just downsampled to 1080p since the PS3 can't output that resolution.
@@JTAI2 Hah! So Okami HD on PS4 Pro is just them unlocking the 4k the game can do? That's interesting. Another 1080p game is Ridge Racer 6 for the PS3. You get a less stable fps though. The games I've mentioned have a secret mode. If you lower the resolution to 720p. The fps is locked. No drops at all. Now Ico HD is very solid in its 1080p mode so no reason to change its resolution there. But God of War Volume 2 and Shadow of The Colossus to have fps drops here and there. But I don't find the fps drops to be bad enough to change down to 720p. A few PS Store games are 1080p also. I think Motorstorm RC is 1080p? Not sure though.
For the best mClassic effect, you want to keep the resolution _as close_ to the source resolution as possible. Which means when using a RetroTINK to deinterlace 480i or scale 240p, you want the scaler to output 480p. (And yes, you may lose fine detail like you show in the Dreamcast example so it is definitely up to the user at the end of the day; this is just how Marseille recommends you use the device.) And that means on PS3 and 360, you want the console to output 720p for most games since that is their rendering resolution.
The most impressive use of mClassic in my opinion is Original Xbox.
I think it smears too much detail on any game below 720p. Some 480p games with simpler shaded graphics like some of the stuff on Dreamcast can look kinda nice, but with many it lost too much texture detail to my liking..
I agree. It does a nice job on the original Xbox. I got it to work really well on the 360 by messing with the image via the OSSC.
imo the best use for mClassic is 240p games natively rendering at 480p. Wii Virtual Console for N64 games for example. I really wanted to like RT5X's smoothing filter for that specific scenario, but while it does an okay job, it looks "chunky" if that makes sense. Like it makes sharp edges rounder, rather than flattening the staircase effect. Now on the other hand, if you set a Wii to 480i, and use smooth bob at 720p, then use mClassic, it looks a lot better despite the slight blurryness caused by deinterlacing and flickering. The 5X doesn't support the smoothing filter at 720p to combine with mClassic, but if it did, I think that would make a really good picture for that specific thing, because the ringing artifacts the mClassic suffers with won't be as pronoucned due to a higher input resolution.
@@tyisafk I just generally don’t like smoothing filters on anything 🤷🏻♂️😅
Give me alllllll the sharp pixels!!
but some low framerate ps3 games that are missing aliasing are a bit unsightly and that’s the only thing I found mClassic useful for.
Aside from Halo, what titles have you seen look exceptional on Xbox? I assume from your name that you would have one of the Jedi games to report on?
That was really interesting. If I did pick any option myself however, I would pick the optimal sampling offered by the RT5X. I minor improvement on 720p and 1080p content is nice though, but the RT5X has the 720p line-doubling anyways. 🤷🏻♂️
Line doubling is going to be a razor sharp jaggy experience, both get you to 1440p but its the polar opposite of mClassic’s edge antialiasing.
When you did the upscaling, did you have the Switch Outpout at 720 or 1080?
You know how to choose the best shots in Dead or Alive
thanks ;D
Songtrack: Eric Matyas - Reaching Altitude. Thank me later
There is a video from Marseille showing that changing the colour range on your TV can force your TV into 1440p. Might be worth a try. Remember also that the mClassic has to have a progressive scan signal to do anything otherwise the signal is just passed through. It also only really works with signals up to 720p. I personally don't experience any black crush .Those console to HDMI adapter/cables are guilty of this in my experience. I'm no expert and I'm just talking from my own experiences tho ☺
no no, this works with 1080p signals as well.
if it's running up to 1080p, it will upscale 480p and 720p to 1080p, with 1080p it'll just add anti aliasing (it's not the greatest but it is better than no anti aliasing)
if it's running on a 1440p screen, it will upscale 480p, 720p and 1080p to 1440p. (unlike with a 1080p screen it won't add anti aliasing if you send 1440p through an mclassic)
@@WednesdayMan yes it works with a 1080p signal too. The benefits are not massive compared to when using 480p/720p. Which is why reviews suggest turning down the output of the console to 720p if it's set to 1080p.
@@djm9937 I just ignore the reviewers' advice with native 1080p games, lowering it to 720p is a garuntee to worsen the image unless it has a horrible anti aliasing setup.
@@WednesdayMan understand that, but most PS3 and Xbox 360 games are 720p or less, so my machines are set to 720p. Works for me, but I'm not saying it's the right thing for every game or indeed any game. All down to preference 😊
Oh you're using it exclusively for your 7th gen consoles.
I'm tempted to use the Mclassic with Crono Cross Radical Dreamers in its Classic mode to clean its edges. I saw Digital Foundrys vid on it, and Classic mode runs the best but has no edge clean up. So using the Mclassic will be worth a try with it for those who have a Mclassic and Crono Cross Radical Dreamers. Switch and PS4/PS5 all have the same resolution and odd fps issues.
Awesome video, thank you!
Do you have any lg monitors/tvs by chance?
Try setting sharpeness to 80~100 depending on source. It has a very similar effect to mclsssic unlike other sharpening on other brands adding white and black artifacts.
Using an extron DSC 301 to scale 720p ps3 games to 1080p, then using an Mclassic to smooth the image out instead of upscaling it on a 1080p plasma produces a great image. Honestly the 301 + Mclassic is an underrated combo, especially if you throw in an OSSC or Retrotink 5x pro before those to line double 480p to 960p. The extron will then process 960p in a 1080p frame, (tink 5x pro might do this as well), then the Mclassic will provide AA, with no other issues to the image quality that I am aware of. The main trick is to feed the Mclassic the highest resolution your source can display so it doesn't do its poor job of upscaling and instead its good job of anti aliasing.
Awesome video! Good job! :)
Mclassic is definitely a must for PS3 and 360 era
Works on 8th gen too @720p & 1080p
@@BOXING_LOUNGE yeah but no hdr
@@gex581990 True, but I'm using 3 in my chain so I get even more of a colour boost
@@BOXING_LOUNGE that’s definitely not the same lol
@@gex581990 I think your missing the point, only the best of 8th gen have 4K and HDR. Everything below, maxes out @1080p. I use the hardware to bridge the gap. PS4 & PS5 are still not backwards compatible with PS3.
I have all my retro consoles/games outputting 480p or 720p running through the mClassic and I feel it does an excellent job. No OSSC or RetroTink required. Look at how much better the Gamecube game at 5.10 looks at 480p with mClassic compared to using nothing or the RetroTink...in my opinion :)
I have mClassic as well and thought about getting RT or OSSC. How do you HDMI output out of your retro consoles?
@@t00thr0t My retro consoles only go back as far as the Dreamcast. The consoles with component out are connected to a PORTTA component to HDMI, then through the mClassic.
@@djm9937 ohh right, for 480p to mClassic you only need a converter, didn’t think of that
Well time to ditch the mclassic I use with my retrotink 5x and update the fw to experimental and just enable smoothing. It would be interesting to see a video of 5x smoothing combined with mclassic to see how they handle anti-aliasing combined. You think there is a color profile you can make to try to balance out what the mclassic does to the dark and bright areas?
Once the mclassic clipped the details with high contrast as you can see here: 4:24min you can't fix it entirely. You can adjust contrast and brightness to some level as I did in this video but you will never get the original image. If you lower the contrast to much the image will look washed out and dimm without bringing the details back.
Hi guys, i have a question, what is the difference between mclassic and mcable gaming edition? do exactly the same job? Or is one of them better than the other?
Hello, a Retrotink 2x-Pro would be enough for the PS2 ?
Does OSSC & retrotink 5x convert 601 to 709 when upscaling 480p to 1080p? This is probably the main reason I'm leaning towards mClassic because it correctly converts 601 to 709, but if OSSC can do it then maybe it's worth the extra $
Excellent video! I do not care for the mClassic's scaling effects for retro games at all. However, I think it does a nice job with the Nintendo Switch.
Just a heads up that the mClassic only enhances a progressive signal
Faz o teste usando o RE Remake de GameCube (e também de Wii).
It adds more stability to the image
I noticed it helps with the flicker from 480i when combined with the OSSC
When I used it my monitor says that its only receiving 1080p 60fps even tho I am sending more that.
Mclassic Works well with Gbs Control?
Mr. wobbling excellent content ... by any chance you know where can I see a troubleshooting guide or something to achieve 1440p with my Nintendo switch I have a Sony X900H 65' and with my retrotink5x I do Achieve 1440p I don't know What I missing here .... Congrats and thank you for an amazing video !! ❤️❤️❤️
It will not work. Thats how the mclassic is configured. You could buy one of these but no guarantees!
www.amazon.com/EVanlak-Passthrough-Generrtion-Eliminated-Thunderbolt/dp/B09KFYZ4PT/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2S3ZSBS48FGC3&keywords=mclassic+2k&qid=1649522356&sprefix=mclassic+2k%2Caps%2C212&sr=8-1
@@wobblingpixels3921 thanks for the recommendation.
@@ventsama1214 You could get a Splitter that outputs 1440p?
Thanks a lot!
Yep. As expected the mClassic produces an overall more appealing image to look at.. regardless of any rare instances of minor detail lost. The proponents of a more “sharp” image are a vocal minority. The rest of us normal gamers want anti-aliasing and the mClassic provides it where it previously could not be found.
My main takeaway from this video is that smoothing filters should just be left off in all but the most niche of cases.
Luigi's Mansion looked god awful being smeared to high hell like that.
Is it just me or mclassic imager is narrower than original?, I am interested in buying mclassic but I plan to play doa xtreme in the original xbox, so if mclassic makes a narrower image the doa girls wont look as thicc as they should...
This can be corrected?, I own an ossc and I would like to pair with mclassic.
Thanks.
mClassic is hands down my least used device. I will at times use it on PS3 if the game is a bit rough around the edges, I don’t mind aliasing when the game runs at 60fps, but 20-30fps games do end up being a bit better with an mClassic.
I just leave it in my Splitter with all my Retro consoles plugged in. It's helped all the PS3 games I've tried out with it. Another layer of AA and some sharpness can't hurt. Especially on PS3 games.
@@WllKiedSnake I couldn’t leave it plugged in because it messed up passing through 960p inputs from OSSC, I guess I could hook it back up now that I’m on RT5x, but it’s still mostly useless to me tbh
@@WllKiedSnake the problem I have is it washes out details in some games while smoothing others. And that’s a big no no
@@mindscan420 You should give it a go with your Retrotink 5x. I've seen some good results when combined. And I have no idea why you'd be having a issue with some games getting washed out? I haven't run into a issue like that so far.
@@mindscan420 I totally recommend you get a fairly cheap HDMI splitter. Bob from RetroRGB has recommended a few, and this way you can route your Retrotink5X into the splitter, with one output going into the mClassic and another going straight to your TV and bypassing it. OR you could do this with your HDMI switch, etc, so you can get the best of both worlds.
I don't know why the Xbox 360 is not showing nothing on the TV
It is a shame the mClassic does not support a 4K upscaling mode, otherwise, I would have already gone out of my way to buy one. That said, the smooth anti-aliased look does not work for me when, in most cases, I want the chunkiest looking pixels on my retro games.
It can upscale to 4K, but not for gaming.
YT doesn't actually give you an full accurate image of what the Mclassics image will actually look like on your TV Screen proper. Its slightly compressed on YT. It will look better in person. But you can see it is doing something for these older games.
There's ways to achieve 4k. You might have a Xbox series s or whatever they call it now. Hook up the console to the Xbox. It will upscale it. Or....you might have a computer. Connect your game console to a PC with a capture device like elgato. Just display the screen on PC and use as TV. You wanna have the screen in a windowed form. Then use a application called Lossless Scaling. Hit upscale and the game will run in 4k if you have 4k TV or monitor. 1080p if it's a 1080p tv or monitor.
is mclassic the best hdmi in the world for ps2? If not, what is the best hdmi in the world for the ps2 that makes the graphics better?
Retrotink5x PRO
@@wobblingpixels3921 Ive seen a few videos where the mclassic actualy crushes the black colors making the games way too dark. Have you experienced this ? Defect ??
Ive my mClassic connected to my LG OLED C1 and I love. But no 1440p output on this TV.
I use:
PS3, WiiU, xbox360 and Switch
This might help
www.amazon.com/EVanlak-Passthrough-Generrtion-Eliminated-Thunderbolt/dp/B09KFYZ4PT/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2S3ZSBS48FGC3&keywords=mclassic+2k&qid=1649522356&sprefix=mclassic+2k%2Caps%2C212&sr=8-1
mClassic? It looks good. But my Switch looks much better on my Plasma TV.
Ahh...
So it's NOT magic...
meh not worth it.
mclassic is terrible for most systems.
Using it alone it's perfect for PS3 and Switch. I have it.
the mclassic is actual trash.
nope, it isn't. I have it and it makes Switch look like a Switch Pro.
will this make a xbox 360 60 fps and 120 fps if supported by display or just 60 fps ?
Songtrack: Eric Matyas - Reaching Altitude. Thank me later