4K Gamer Pro & mClassic HDMI Upscalers - Useful or Useless? :: RGB325 / MY LIFE IN GAMING
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- Try finally looks at the 4K Gamer Pro and the Marseille mClassic HDMI upscalers. Both, especially the mClassic, have developed a significant following over the years. Are they nothing but marketing hype, or do they provide a worthwhile boost to picture quality?
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My Life in Gaming makes documentaries, deep dives into retro console hardware, and more.
► Episode Chapters
00:00 - Intro
3:41 - 4K Gamer Pro
12:28 - 4K Gamer Pro VS. TV Sharpening
18:49 - mClassic
28:05 - 4K Gamer Pro + mClassic
30:30 - Conclusion - เกม
I'm actually impressed with the mClassic and wouldn't mind having one for my PS3 and Switch but I'm not $80 impressed. I'd probably get one if it was like $40.
I think the Sagemcom UP200 cord might be a better choice as it is cheaper than the mclassic and is similar to it (I've seen comparison videos, and its smoothing functionality is similar to an mclassic)
this comment nails it. the cost to upscale or present image sharpening in a '1 button' quick fix isn't worth $100. I really appreciated the commentary on the video where he went into comps for built-in image sharpening on his TV versus the sharpening from these devices. Truthfully, a lot of what we're trying to achieve as gamers is already BUILT IN to the output display. While it might take several more minutes to achieve than just a plug and play adapter, I'd rather keep my hard earned bux :)
Nice to see someone that actually knows what they’re talking about finally talking about these things.
Yeah. It’s interesting that people I trust on TH-cam (like MJR) acted like these were “GAME CHANGERS”.
@@leeartlee915 the m-cable is pretty nice if you wanna run your switch off of a 1440p monitor.
@@maegnificant Hmmm, seems kind of a limited application. Especially given the products claims.
I use it for 480p devices (e.g. Gamecube). Does make those games look better… slightly (imo).
@@leeartlee915 i am just saying that's what I use it for and it works pretty well. Looks better than native for sure. Wish they would not touch the colors and stuff though.
@@leeartlee915 many claims they make in their marketing are either questionable or plain wrong. They also claim setting the switch to 720p and then upscale via mcable would look better for 1440p but that's not the case at all.
I'm so happy there is an in-depth video on these devices, especially the mClassic. I like my mClassic a lot because what Try speaks on here, but I'm obviously I'm a lot more positive about it lol. No embellishments or exaggerations from me, but I'm a fan of how the mClassic processes the image. To my eyes, it sharpens the image to a pleasant, if slight, degree. 1080p native games look best, but games running lower than that also benefit to my liking. (It's good to get confirmation that we should just leave the Switch on 1080p)
I do agree it shouldn't be $80-$100. For half the price, it think it would be of great value.
Such a underrated channel you guys make such great content keep it up
I loved this video, like a lot of other people here I have been debating on whether or not I should get this accessory. I guess in the end what a lot of us just want is a nearest neighbor scaler for really any resolution content. It seems to me like a simpler concept that I hope get's implemented more readily in TVs and other accessories (other than the RT5X, OSSC, etc.) in the future.
Nice job on the sharpness tests you did. Overall nice job with the review.
I have a streaming device that only accepts 720p and 1080p, so the mClassic is actually pretty useful for 480p systems.
There may be other ways, I have a box that alters output resolution for capture cards but not to the TV. (Usually I use it to keep 4k60HDR working on the TV, without touching a 1080p capture card that's plugged in at the same time.)
But whatever works of course, and this might be seen as a value-add for what it does as well.
Lol just buy a new streaming device
@@RetroBacon1 some streaming devices still won't capture things like HDR or the top framerate, so a splitter with a downgrading conversion and a bypass could be best (since an HDMI signal normally conforms to the lowest specifications detected for compatibility, so normal HDMI splitters will just use the worse quality on both).
Besides, he was talking about how his streaming device doesn't accept older, lower quality inputs anymore. Not higher.
@@rockstopsthetraffic oooohh that makes more sense.
I happen to have a LG C1 55 oled myself, and also the 4K Gamer Pro as it sounded like an interesting product to try out so funded their indigogo. Wasn't expecting any miracles, but interesting to try. Also happens to have a mClassic, or well 3 for some reason, impulse bought during a local store sale. Got it because I've heard alot of good about it together with eon/carby on GCN and planning on buying one next year to mod. My console collection is very modest, but I like tinkering with settings, both on consoles, TV, AVR (for sound mostly), and see what can be done. Your videos have been both great help and an inspiration to watch. After this episodes I played around some with settings and the mClassic and 4k Gamer Pro and I actually kind of like what it's doing on the games/consoles I've tried it so far. My signal change is HDMI switcher with mClassic (green mode) in the output into my AVR into 4K Gamer Pro (low setting) into my C1 OLED, tv sharpness set to 30. Currently playing through Twilight Princess HD on Wii U and it looks amazing. Tested some PS3 (set to720p) games and liked the results, on the Switch its really really minimal difference, and really different results from game to game. Since I had more than one mClassic I put one on my HDMI modded Dreamcast in the blue mode and HDMI output to 480p, and did the same with my HDMI modded Nintendo 64. And I somewhat like the results of both the DC and N64 with dual mClassic and 4K Gamer Pro on my C1, was never really satisfied with how the looked on the C1 compared to my old Sony 1080P tv. Gonna have it like this for a while and see how I like it after bit more playing. Once again, your chanel is really a great inspiration and source of facts and interesting ideas. So far I really like it on the Wii U and on the PS3, and most noticeable there in a good way.
Fantastic coverage for both devices. I have the mClassic paired with my EON GCHD for the GameCube, and noticed a fairly nice difference in my captured footage. All the game footage appears to come out a tad cleaner and sharper. You now have me curious to play around with the sharpness settings on my LG OLED! Excellent episode as always!
Your humour is spot on in this episode, Try, really enjoyed that. Keep em coming MLIG 👍
Fantastic cover!! And about time!! Missed the channel
Watching this on my lunch break. Love it when we get a new in depth mlig video!
That RetroTink CRT effect is so cool. (26:50)
The RetroTink 5X-Pro seems such a great device. I'm eager to see PixelFX's scaler.
I was never a fan of CRT effects, but the retrotink 5x is starting to convert me: I especially like it with PS2 480i content.
It does, one of the better ones i seen definitely
Great new video! Still hoping for a 2022 wrap up too 😀
Very informative! Thank you for sharing your experience with us!
I enjoy that your reviews are honest and factual. I get sic of the sell sell sell nature you normally see. Thank you
Glad yall are back. Ive missed the RGB master class videos. Would love another console one
I busted out laughing at that intro. Keep up the good work guys. I love the RGB series!
Great video! I've seen so much hype for both devices (especially the mClassic) floating around that can be very misleading so its great to have an in depth look showing what each device ACTUALLY does, rather than what both companies claim they do.
In my personal experience, I actually have found a good use purpose for the mClassic. My TCL 4K TV does not have a setting to force a 4:3 aspect ratio (despite being able to accept composite via an adapter), which is a sad trend to see on newer displays. Before I upgraded to the Retrotink 5x Pro, I was using the mClassic as a way to force 4:3 for any content I was running through it (NES, SNES, N64, Wii). While the downside of that meant I had to use it for anything to get 4:3, i can see that being useful for a setup where forcing 4:3 isn't possible. The mClassic really doesn't look very good with 240p content, but with 480p content it does a good job with smoothing out the image ever so slightly.
Nowadays, I only use it with my HDMI consoles (Wii U, Xbox One) and my GameCube with the Carby HDMI adapter. I'd say I see the most benefit from native 1080p content like the video says, with native 720p and 480p content also possibly benefitting depending on the use case. Honestly, I'd say overall I'm happy to have it for the cases where it does provide a slight benefit, but if I were to do it over again, I don't think I would go out of my way to buy/use one since the difference is not enough to justify its $80-$100 price tag.
As a side note, I have actually found a way to use the mClassic's 1440p upscaling with my 4KTV: I bought a cheap edid spoofer adapter on Amazon for about $20 and it works great. Getting that 1080p to 1440p upscaling has also been a nice, if inessential, use case for the mClassic as well. The one side effect is that, with the way I have my audio and video setup, I can't get my 4K Blu Ray player to play audio without unplugging it which is a little annoying but it's easy enough to unplug it and plug it back in when needed.
Great Video as Usual. Actually owned a Mclassic when they had a kickstarter discount, had niche uses but eventually sold it for more than what I paid.
I love that my favorite youtube channel covered this. Fantastic video as always. I personally do really like the results with the mClassic + 4K Gamer Pro paired together but for me its only a temporary solution until Mikes new 4k scaler comes to market. I think with Switch games and some PS3 games the results are quiet dramatic but to each their own. Loved the video though, you guys are a huge inspiration for me and my channel so thank you for all you do.
What's "Mike's 4K Scaler"?
I am unaware of this product. Can you suggest or link to info on it?
Less upscaling does have better results, 240p and some 480 to 4k is just too much.
I just got a 4k TV and I've been eyeing the mclassic despite hearing bad things in the past. This video came at a perfect time for me.
My TV accepts the 1440p signal and used it with my Switch until recently when I got a new Switch and discovered the mClassic is what was messing up the auto-switching features. So i ended up taking it off of that Switch since my kids mostly use that now and I am tired of them misplacing the HDMI switch remote. I can't put it on the output of the HDMI switch since it shares it with my Series X and don't want to have to manually switch it on/off and don't want to lose VRR, etc. from the Xbox, and both need to be on that hdmi switch going to my soundbar for Atmos (xbox) and Nitendo's stupidity in not just using Dolby for surround (my tv just passes through stereo PCM). Some HDMI switches don't place nice with it, either between console and switch, or on output of switch going to the tv. I still use one on the Switch dock on my 1440p monitor and on the PS3 connected to my 4k tv.
tl;dr: YMMV definitely applies to the mClassic based on your setup, your TV, console being used, etc.
I appreciate you diving into these. I would've liked to see how they handle 480i content though
[Try4ce] Yeah you'd need to deinterlace 480i content to 480p first. Since I was trying to not spend overly long on this, I used GameCube, Wii, and Dreamcast since it was easiest for me to get 480p HDMI out of them. I'd have maybe done PS2 480i I'd I had a bit more time but since you can't do it directly, I glossed over it. It would be very similar to 480p though.
Love that little ending teaser video! 😂
Great video! Having owned a Switch for ages and never really used it (I used my Switch Lite to beat pokemon shield) I plugged it into a tv for the first time the other day and immediately started looking at mclassic or emulation. I won't worry about plug-in stuff now, thanks to this video. I'll just enjoy the games as they are 😊
I think it was totally worth it on Wii U because virtually every game was rendering at 720p with barely any AA. The mClassic made the Wii U look like a Switch at 1080p. Now that I'm using the mClassic on my Switch, the difference is neglectable at best.
Thanks Try! This has really helped assuage my concerns about not buying an Mcable or similar offering. The benefits are so subtle I honestly can't tell when they're turned on or not, and the detriments of that sharpening are so glaring that... yeah, it's just not worth the risk. So often I watch these videos finding something new to buy, thanks for _saving_ me some cash for once! ;)
I primarily use the mclassic for 480p and it's amazing. I see the biggest changes in quality going from 480i to 480p to 480p+mclassic on the Pikman 2 titlescreen.
Also, I guess mclassic people are hardcore online cause MLiG really straddle the line between being in hostage situation and kind of patronizing when talking about it lol
I also recently got an mClassic and the best use so far has been with Dreamcast and GameCube… but the Retrotink 5X 480 signal won’t work with the mClassic for me, only at 540p. Also, God of War Collection at 720p gave me good results. But the mClassic worsens colors, especially bright and shadowy areas.
You can see it here in the comparisons. It dulls colors.
@@seanmcbay these comparisons don't do it justice, the output can be 1440p a large number of 4k tvs support 1440p via turning on deep color input. It's on mclassics TH-cam channel. Kinda bummed that this wasn't taken as seriously as it should.
Does the mclassic crushes the blacks on gamecube ?
@@thesteammachine1282Yes it changes the gamma setting one tone down, so you should compensate that by going up a notch on your tv or monitor.
tu aqui edu kkkkkkkkk doidera que ngm ainda descobriu, msm 5 meses dps kkkkkkkkk
Interesting... very interesting.
Cheers again for the great content, I use the sharpness at 25% on my 2012 1080p 42" Panny Plasma... It usually looks sweet 🤠👍
the best channel of retro gaming. i love it. thanks guys.
Thanks! I'd say I have been waiting for this exact episode for months because the 4K Gamer Pro was available in China way earlier, pretty much the beginning of 2022. And the conclusion of this video kinda didn't surprised me... For early adopters that posted reviews that also shows there's a pretty strong sharpening effect going on, that looks rather similar to nearest neighbour interpolation except even more extreme.
And... I've concluded that I don't need any external image processor. Because I seems to have almost the perfect solution for playing Switch games -- a 4K DLP projector. My XGIMI projector forced some image sharpening in its game mode, which, while I'm definitely not a fan of, turns out not being a huge issue on 4K models at least, because 4K models has larger pixels than a 4K TV due to the way 4K is displayed on a DLP projector (that is, the 1080p module shifted 4 times per frame to form a 4K image), which supposedly blurs the forced sharpened image a bit, and ended up making what's just a touch sharper than 1080p with no visible ringing effect. And it kinda works rather well at making 1080p stuffs look 4K, especially UI texts, and the only thing that breaks this illusion is really when the sharp corners of texts were rounded a bit.
I still don't quite like the way sharpening was forced in the game mode, though, it makes some of the overly saturated colors inaccurate (I calibrated the back light of my projector to D65, so it's obvious when colors were off), but otherwise I guess this is the ultimate way to play Switch by far.
And about external image processors, I'll agree with some of the reviews I've seen, saying that they are most useful for those that play games on a monitor rather than a TV, as monitors usually has way worse image processing quality than TVs.
honestly I use the mclassic a lot, I see benefit in its SMAA like approach to smoothing edges and I like its upscaling fuctionality, it is a massive improvement to my emulation setup and I use magpie FSR for games that run below 480p. honestly for 1080p without anti aliasing it is a meaningful improvement. I just dislike seeing jagged edges.
This could be a budget saver if I saw it like 4 months ago.... incredible video man! and as you said it.... many of us won't tell the difference by using this adapters
I use the Mclassic on a 1440p monitor with 720p and 480p signals, and I like the results. I also use the Mclassic with my PS4 to bring the 1080p signal up to 1440p, but I don't necessarily notice any benefits other than matching the display resolution.
Thanks for the video! Happy to have an honest breakdown of these devices
This is also why I originally purchased an mClassic and using it with Switch games on a 1440P monitor produced a fantastic image. I've since switched to a 4K OLED TV and while it's not as sharp as it was at 1440P, I still find the mClassic makes a number of Switch games look better. YMMV.
That is one of the main use cases for these. I also use them with my Xbox 360 and PS3 for that.
As soon as i saw the classic announced i was looking forward to seeing this video, great job folks as always
The MClassic is a great product if used in the right way. At the moment the best usage is with content in 720p60fps (best) or 480p. Marseille need to update its processor to handle upscale to higher resolutions (4k) and newer tech (hdr). They say the product is for 1440p, to me that is misleading.
It goes up to 1440p if your display supports the resolution and will do 4K only for Blue-Ray 1080p/24fps.
I use the mClassic regularly with my retrotink 5x for a bit of a cleaner image on my 4K monitor. It is especially useful with my Nintendo Switch. My Switch had a pixely look on my new 4K monitor but the mClassic takes it up to 1440p which allows it to accept the signal much better giving me a much cleaner image.
I have the same problem when using my Switch with my LG Ultragear monitor, it looks blurry, the monitor sharpness setting doesnt add an upscalling, however, when i plug the Switch on my LG Nanocell, it looks beautiful, the sharpness setting there is magic
thanks for making this video Try, i own a M classic and have had it for about a year and it basically lives behind my GameCube plugged into my EON GCHD MK 2 adapter.. it works pretty well and is noticeable but its defiantly not as good as something like a framemiester so its important that a video like this exists to cut through the bs that companies put out there. people should be informed about what they are buying especially when its over 100 bucks.
Now I am playing the ps4 games like diablo3, tekken7, mgs5 etc in PS5 or all metal gear series game in ps3 with mclassic+4k gamer pro for 4K. I know they are not cheap. But It always makes me so happy.
Thanks to the review (and the channel) I now know (why) this is not the way to go! Great work!
I've used the mClassic in conjunction with my Frameister and the marketing on Marseille's end definitely over sells it's usefulness. I think it works best with Gamecube, Playstation 2, Original Xbox, Dreamcast, and N64 3D titles when the smoothing effect is the most noticeable and welcome. I can notice an upgrade when used with my Nintendo Switch but it's so marginal I can't recommend it for that alone. It has it's uses, but those uses are only for the most enthusiastic gamers with extra money to spend.
I love the mClassic specifically because of how much I play GameCube games. It does magic with games of that era!
Thanks, Try. Like every upload you guys make, I just end up buying half a dozen of the games in the comparisons. Excited to try Zack and Wiki. Shredder's Revenge looks great!
I think I'll be giving this hardware a pass and sticking with Retrotink for the time being. The customisability of a RT4K (or that other upcoming scaler I've forgotten the name of) will outweigh these devices for those of us that like to tinker. Even the RT2x MultiFormat is still looking great on an LGC2 from 6ft, even if it is sub-1080p. It's always great to have more thoroughly tested options in the space though
Thanks for the video. As always you guys have good content. I did see some games; it did look better than the base Switch. I guess the NEED for this if you got a cheaper 4K tv (normally bad processing), this might help. If you got a higher end 4K tv, this might not help much.
Awesome work as always
4:41 Nice to see Kaze and The Wild Masks in the video footage, I love that game.
Awesome video, and I learnt something new about my C1!
There's one song on the video that I liked a lot, but you don't put on video what's the song playing and I couldn't find the songs you used on the video's info. I finally found it was from yoku's island express (you talked about that game in that section, so I guessed it could be from there), anyways, would be nice to have that info more accessible, but at the same time, it's extra work for something that not too many pay attention to.
Thanks for the great video, I hope you and Coury can make these kind of videos for many years!
Also Happy holidays :D!
[Try4ce] We do put the music the games come from in the end slate at the end of each episode, in order of use.
@@mylifeingaming OMG! you're right! Thanks! 😃
So for playing newer releases on the Switch OLED (4k tv when docked) should I go for the 4k gamer pro or mClassic? I don’t really play older titles on my switch. I want to enhance titles like Mario Odyssey or Zelda as much as possible
I always use my mclassic on the switch its nice aliasing and colors really make the image pop!
Ive been seeing so many people over the years claim the mclassic is the best way to play switch and older consoles and I'm glad you guys made a video actually looking at the differences. I completely understand why some people like it for 480p but the smudging and color differences kinda ruins it for me and honestly even then the difference is mostly negligible across the board to my eyes at least. I don't knock anyone for liking it but its definitely more of a personal preference kinda like PS1 smoothing on PS3. I'm just glad theres at least one channel not hyping this thing up like its a mini framemeister or something.
Great video once again! I bought an mClassic because it felt like the best/simple/cost effective way to upscale older HDMI consoles. Correct me if I’m wrong, I feel most game focused scalers didn’t accept an HDMI input, I would have to use component/analogue to use a retrotink 5 or OSSC (non-pro). The mClassic has been great for upscaling Wii U, PS3 and Xbox 360 games. Plus with their backwards compatibly, Wii, PS2 and OG Xbox; 480p and 720p games look much better with the mClassic vs my Vizio TV’s scaler.
What would you recommend as a digital to digital scaler?
[Try4ce] Luckily the upcoming RetroTINK 4K, PixelFX Morph, and if I recall correctly, also the OSSC Pro will all have HDMI inputs.
100$ vs $1000 though. It's hard to recommend an RT4k to someone who might use it on 1-2 consoles, surely?
Great video as always. Ive definitely been curious about these devices. You convinced me NOT to buy them so thanks for saving me some cash 😁. Also, for what it's worth, I have an LG CX and I keep the sharpness at 25.
Appreciate the review. With the release of the new Poke games, I was seriously considering one of these in the hopes it could fix the insanely horrid aliasing.
Very usefull video !!
I use mclassic since its launch on switch/wiiU/gc titles and I really love it. (I use it on my pc monitor)
Great presentation 💯🤙
The cool thing about the mClassic is that I just put it somewhere in my tool chain after my HDMI switch. So every consoles that I run it through can benefit of it, or not, as I decide to activate it.
It becomes handy on PS3 at 720p but also, I really think the mClassic does a phenomenal job at 480p for games on Wii, Gamecube and PS2 era consoles. I said it numerous times, but MK8 on Wii U with the mClassic straight up looks like MK8 Deluxe on Switch at 1080p.
He doesn't stress it enough but 480i is passthrough only, without any benefit. So you really must use a "progressive" resolution on those old consoles. The mClassic shines for games and consoles native to 480p and 720p resolutions.
At 1080p it is a complete waste of time and money and since 240p is usually for old consoles with pristine pixel art, you definitely don't want to butcher your pixel perfect with a 4 and a half upscaled image at 1080p. Nope.
240p isnt even compatible with the mClassic... and 1080p DOES get an increase with antialising and texture shaprening with it still.
@@Phantron you are right. I use a line doubler retrotink device for 240p. So I'm talking about a 480p upscaled to 1080p from a source 240p.
You are also right about 1080p except that, as shown multiple times in this video, the difference is negligible at best.
I was actually wondering myself about how to get a bit of a sharper image out of my TV from content like the VitaTV. So hearing my 2020 TV might actually have good sharpening settings is something I've been dying to hear.
Thanks for the video Try, saved me about 250$ since I'm from Canada and people like to guy Canadians for tech items like this.
Glad to see some love for Live A Live
Thanks babe! I hated the way my switch looks on my new LG G3 and was considering these but after watching this video I've just turned the sharpening up from 0 to 30 and it's gravy. I definitely thought TV sharpening was still an auto-zero too 😂
I bought the M-Classic out of curiosity mostly, but also hoping it would smooth out the jaggies on the Switch and just thought it blurred the image and washed out the colors. I was much happier with the image as is. Waste of 100 bucks- but i knew that was a possibility going in.
I wish you tested the mClassic much more on the Vita TV. I’m especially curious to see how it will perform on the PSP games being run on Vita TV. Can you please make a video on that??
[Try4ce] I don't think it would work quite like you'd hope since the output resolution won't match. But I like the Sharpscale soft mod for PSTV, especially for PSP games. We have a video on that too.
@@mylifeingaming fair point. Ok here’s an idea for a future episode. “What’s the best way to play handheld games on your TV/monitor”. Nowadays we have several options to play them. For instance GB, GBA, GG, Lynx etc on MiSTer, Analogue pocket deck, Vita TV, consolized versions of various handhelds.
Also you should address the input lag on PSP games being emulated on Vita TV. This has been an issue and there is a thread on this matter on Shmups.
Probably the best thing you can do for the Vita TV is to use Sharpscaling and then plug it into the RetroTink 5X to custom zoom and crop the video signal using the interpolation of the 5X.
So question. How would the MClassic fare if one wanted to pair it with the RetroTINK 2X per chance? Would it's handling of 480p upscaling to 1080p be better than what most flat panels can do? Does it actually properly upscale 480p to 1080p? I know that a lot of flat panels don't handle 480p that great, thus if the MClassic does then I could see this being a decent use case for it while simply turning the Anti Ailising off & simply using it as an upscaler & nothing more.
I have a tink2x and used my mclassic with it until I found a cheap dvdo edge green at the flea market years ago, and liked the up scaling i got with the dvdo more that I put the tink2x and mclassic until recently because my dvdo just broke, but for a 480p to 1080p device its not bad but yeah i agree look into getting a better device like a tink5x instead, right now I'm contemplating on getting a tink5x or just waiting for the tink4k to come out
Gaming was unbearable. It was impossible to enjoy games just because of how bad they looked. The greatest video games of all time made me feel sick, and watching The Game Awards nearly put me in the hospital. But then I got a magical new device: the mClassic! The mClassic is like a spiritual experience! It turns even the worst games into rays of sunshine. The mClassic saved my life, and it can save yours too!
Mclassic works pretty good, got it on sale for $60.
Bill Clinton?
Read this with the voice of Joe Redifer in my mind
Tbf the game awards will put you in the hospital no matter what you have
@@kozaihod I thought Joe was killed by the mClassic's "better graphic (sic)." 😉 UPDATE: No, I misremembered. It was Galaxy Force's graphics that killed him.
I upgraded my C7 to a C1 based off your old video, looks like I will ditch the 4k gamer pro hooked up to my 5x and just use the tv sharpness setting. I will have to find a good sharpness to settle on, might try in the middle of off and to the max. Let me know what you settle on, thanks.
I have 3 mClassics for different setups. I think the improvements vary between games and I can see why a lot of people would not want to spend the money for a mild-moderate benefit. Of course, what I really want is a RetroTINK 5x Pro or 4K when that one releases. I would trade my 3 mClassics for one RetroTINK 5x Pro now that I've looked into it more.
mind clarifying why and if you would use the 5x Pro over both the mclassic and photofast combined
@Astral you can daisy chain all 3 for extra goodness. You should try it and report back.
I have the mClassic, I got it mostly to upscale Gamecube, PS2 and other 480p and I think it looks good. I'll definately have to try it with PS3. I don't have much else except a Retrotink 2x. I noticed on Switch it was good on some Pixel games like Eastward but I turned it off while playing Super Mario Odyssey. Glad I wasn't crazy when I thought more high def 3D games weren't the Switch Pro like they advertised. Also got mine for about $60
Good video as always. Still can’t get over you seemingly using Cool settings on your TV though. Woof
[Try4ce] I use neutral on the C1, actually. But it looks similarish to me as cool on other screens. To me, white feels more like white when using cooler white balance. I can't stand white to look slightly yellowish.
Hmmmm. I have a 2021 LG Nano 90, it’s not an oled but I should definitely revisit the sharpening settings so see if this good news extends to my TV.
I have an MClassic and honestly with 480p and 720p content, it really does improve the picture. Aliasing is much less obvious. My favorite consoles to use it with are the Gamecube and PS3.
It works the best with the 360 imo👍
One thing I have been asking myself for a while is how would a standard pc with a video capture device fare as a post processing dedicated machine if something like that is possible. I have an old ivy bridge core I7 with a mobo lying around and it would be a perfect use for it.
The M-Cable, especially on 480p content, reminds me of the look of early Universal blu-rays (not in a good way). They were using dated film masters, so filtered the absolute crap out of them (heavy DNR, sharpening etc), leaving grain & detail behind, resulting in a smearly sharpened look. Thankfully after a few years, catalogue titles were regularly getting new 2K or 4K masters, so many of those early discs got re-released by Universal themselves (films like 'Apollo 13' & 'Spartacus') or licenced out to third parties like Arrow Video (stuff like 'The Thing', 'An American Werwolf in London', 'Videodrome', 'Weird Science' etc).
I'm in the "mClassic for 480p" camp. WiiDual/GCVideo into mClassic has proven a good combination for me. At least until we finally get scalers with HDMI inputs, Mike Chi's filters will make it obsolete for sure.
Mike Chi's filters? whats that
@@Phantron retrotink's post processing effects and scaline filters.
@@joseph011296 that's fine and I've tried a similar approach with good results, but something about introducing an anlogue conversion into an all digital video chain doesn't sit well with me.
This
@@joseph011296 I hear that's a good solution, for sure, but isn't there still a bit of an issue with games that have any (or frequent) resolution switching? I think the RE Remake on Ganecube was one example. It was a while ago, now, but there was a reason I held off of the carby + PORTTA route when I was looking.
After doing some online research for LG oleds sharpness should be at 10 where it applies anti-aliasing without a sharpening filter. Past 10 a sharpening filter is applied. Most people recommend set sharpening to 10 to get anti-aliasing full effect without the sharpening filter. The more you know!
According to Reddit's LG OLED recommended settings guide, they recommend setting Sharpness to 0 except for Switch (and possibly PS3, Xbox 360, Wii U, and PS Vita TV as well), where it can optionally be set to 10 for the appearance of a slightly sharper image with not too much artifacts.
Excellent video
Is there a video that covers the differences in newer sharpening methods in greater detail? Would love to dig more into that.
So I have a C1 too with a Switch. I’ve been using Sharpness 20 + Super Resolution High. Try that out. It’s even better.
On TV sharpening, while the traditional sharpening scale is solid and doesn't cause any super bad ringing on modern TVs, I think Sony's additional sharpening filter called "Reality Creation" is quite impressive.
The sharpness scale on Sony TVs is already pretty wide, 0 - 100, and 50 is considered neutral, but Reality Creation is an additional layer of intelligent sharpening applied based on different patterns and shapes on the screen.
I use and tweak it quite often on my TV, although with 1080p games and such usually I have it set to auto, which plays things safe and only applies a touch of Reality Creation.
But when I play a game that's pretty soft or even kind of blurry, Reality Creation can do some magic. Like even though Snake Pass on Switch is mostly running at a HD resolution, the additional anti aliasing it uses makes the game look extremely soft, but not exactly blurry. I keep my regular sharpness at 50, but I can easily crank Reality Creation to 90-100 on Snake Pass and I get a noticeable boost in picture clarity with zero ringing on gameplay graphics. Only 2D HUD and menu elements have an ultra fine ringing layer around them.
In some cases Reality Creation can help bring the pixels more forth if the image has gone through some soft scaling. It's not quite integer scaling sharp, but it's good enough with very minimal ringing.
I use an mCLassic with an LG Oled because it doesn't handle 480p well at all. When i check the signal it does say it's getting 1440p.
Honestly, I feel like the world really just needs to know about the actual GOOD scalers like the OSSC & RetroTINK devices, but so far it seems FAR too many ppl still don't even know they exist!
I would REALLY love to see Mike Chi release a cheaper, stripped down, budget friendly version of his RetroTINK 5x once he releases upcoming 4K version. Gamers CLEARLY are clamoring for cheaper options that give real results, since they are clearly flocking to devices such as the ones reviewed here. His Tink 2x aka 480p based devices are nice & all, but being limited to a max output of 480p isn't ideal considering it's still a bit of a problem resolution for most flat panels. We need to get that resolution up to at least 720p to really see the results we want on a modern flat panel.
Having something affordable within the $100-150 dollar range that can easily and properly upscale up to 720p-1080p along with a small handful of the most basic features of the 5X would be a GODSEND for gaming!! Hell if it was in a small form factor then I'd buy one just to carry around with me when I go on travel or to friends houses!
If anyone can figure out a way to make a device like that happen, it's Mike Chi! Gaming NEEDS such a device, even more than it needs a proper 4K upscaler imo! Still can't wait for his 4K upscaler tho, it's going to be great!
The 4k Gamer Pro works a lot more nicely than my TV's own upscaling. I gotta say though, I'm a little bit jealous of how well your C1 enhances sub-native sources.
I found that the 4k Gamer Pro worked horribly with Xenoblade 3 - I think it's the FSR that is to blame.
It really depends on the game and display you're playing. I have the MClassic and I've been using it for a few years now. The only classic gaming I used it with was my SNES mini and PS Classic. While it helped it didn't really seem to do make a perception for me on the SNES. PS1 games I kind of saw a difference but the early 3D games would look a little better with sharpening anyway. I mostly got it for my Switch which it does help a noticeable amount for me personally though mostly in sub 1080p games. The last few Pokemon Switch games benefit a lot to me due to adding Anti Aliasing and DoF. Its pretty noticeable in Legends Arceus, Scarlet, and FEWarriors in performance mode (720p targeting 60fps).
Its a nice addition if you play a lot of docked Switch but if you have a decent modern TV within the last 10 years, its mostly splitting hairs. It is worth mentioning, if you game on a monitor the MClassic actually helps. Might just be my case, but my 1080p 144hz gaming monitor doesn't have a built in upscaler. Its a big difference when I dock my Switch on the monitor vs the 4k monitor in the living room with the MClassic.
tl;dr If you play docked a lot and play a lot of sub 1080 or dynamic res games, its worth considering the MClassic
When I hear Bob mentioned in the first three minutes I know we're off to a good start!
For me PS3 and PS2 look great with the mclassic... making sure to get 480p ON PS2 natively through a game or through GSM... it bumps the resolution so well it was almost mindblowing with some games. But be careful with 1440p... i had to get an adapter to get 1440p Out of the mclassic and it did look well.
Also Mclassic works the best when you lower your TV sharpness
I usually use my mClassic to force 4:3 out of my Super Retro Trio but I recently found it fairly helpful in adding some much needed anti-aliasing onto the new Pokemon games. It doesn't entirely get rid of the aliasing, but it really helps make the game look more presentable on my 1440p monitor.
How would these work with transferring VHS tapes? I currently use an Elgato Cam Link 4K.
As I watch this review I'm transferring a tape of Rodeo Bloopers from 1990 I found while High Plains Thrifting.
So stoked to see you guys doing this topic. I have the m-classic and I think it helps with the switch quite a bit. But cam understand avoiding it for retro games.
I can’t wait until the future video where you cover AI image upscaling, both for increasing texture resolution, and for cleaning up previously recorded footage. Based on the results I’ve seen (and gotten from my own work on the Super Mario Bros Super Show) it’s actually pretty impressive.
So I have both of these products and I think they look great! Although sometimes having both of them try to work together can be pretty buggy, with the screen frequently cutting to black. Which I assume is caused by the resolution of the game constantly changing. But if I change my Switch to 720p, it's stable.
However, my biggest issue right now is that I cannot capture any gameplay using my Elgato 4K60 S+. On my TV(LG CX) and laptop, it looks perfectly fine. But when I tried to capture several games, the final footage was completely unusable. The most common issue was that the colours were completely blown out. There was even the odd piece of footage that I couldn't even open. Does anyone know how to fix this? I was planning to do my own video on both of these products, but I am currently unable to get it to capture correctly. I don't think it's an issue with my Elgato because when capturing PS5, it worked perfectly fine.
[Try4ce] I've seen a similar issue before with recordings getting wacky contours when using my AVerMedia Liver Gamer 4K. I don't think anything in particular caused it, but once it started, it would be that way until I rebooted my computer.
We all have different opinions and results which are all valid. I prefer to use the Mclassic/4k gamer pro combination with a pound cable for my ps1 as opposed to the RGb Scart retrotink 5x option. Yes the Retrotink 5x is amazing and I use it for consoles with Component or scart. Maybe it's my TV? But the Mclassic/4k really shines for PS3 and PSTV as well as switch for me. Now even at the highest level I'm not getting the Halo effect you are. I have a Sony 900h and absolutely loving the obvious difference these 2 devices are making. I mean I've even reverted to PSTV version of Trails of Cold Steel 2 from the PS4 version. I've also used Mclassic/4kGP with the Retrotink 5x for PS2 ,OGXB, SFC, Genesis, Neo Geo MVS and PC Engine with the Super SD System and never looked back. I mean I haven't really noticed that I'm using 3 devices for these older consoles. The only console that doesn't really benefit that much is PS2 and I do have the retrovision component, I'll get spammed but let's face it, the PS2 never really gave out that good a quality image.
I use mclassic + 4k Gamer Pro on ps3, it looks awesome. Worth a look 👀
I've never really liked the way those scalers made the games look tbh...but thanks for pointing me to the scaling settings in OBS; I feel like such an idiot for not knowing this before. Games look _crisp_ now!
I bought a Marseilles cable for improving 480p and 760p videos. It didn't improve those much, but it did make Playing Dragon Age Origins on Steam look notably better, especially the UI.
To get 1440p out of ya mclassic for new or retro consoles,get a evanlak hdmi 2k emulator or edid for shortand it gives the digital handshake between mclassic and tv to run in 1440p@60hz,laters
the entire time you were showing off the 4k gamer pro i was just like 'my tv does this better...'
always use the mclassic tho. would never buy it for 1080p content (or pixel art, ew) but i could never go back to playing 3D 720p games without it. most 480p games too. i really wish 480p stuff had less sharpening but for the majority of games, esp stylised ones like nintendos stuff, its a huge improvement imo
Since you brought up that the 4K Gamer Pro cracks the PS3's HDCP protection, does it also crack the PS4/5's if HDCP is set to enabled?
Great Video but i still waiting for a rgb200 video about the dreamcast, its been years and i want to know your opinion about the best picture for the dreamcast 😭
@@chanhjohnnguyen1867 they can still do the video if they want, they did an update video on the gamecube after the original.
I appreciate your honesty versus the guy who clutches a blanket! I didn't believe his video and went for a second opinion.
I find these devices and videos about them interesting but i have to say I'm totally satisfied with my Pioneer-VSX-933 AV Receiver. Too bad it's hard to find information about the upscaling capabilities for games for AV receiver. It's always a gamble but i got lucky. Had him for years and I'm not planning to upgrade in the near future.