tip up vs tip down, and why the military is tip down

Patreon / neroknives

[@neroknives1828]

I also forgot to demonstrate the difference in speed, between tip up and tip down. I showed a video on my Instagram a wile back, between the two. And the speed difference was negligible. Meaning less then a second difference between the two. And no one could tell witch was quicker.
Also I am not saying it’s impossible for a knife to open in your pocket. And I am not saying it’s impossible to cut yourself if a knife opens in your pocket. I am saying The likely hood of both happening at the same time is slime to none.

[@jdmbeaner182]

Who puts a lanyard on a tip don't blade?

[@nunyabussiness4054]

Instructions not clear, cut off pecker.

[@robdeskrd]

Man watching you draw that knife out at the beginning of the video is painful dude, get to wedge where your thumb meets your hand not on the end of the knife but passed it and you don't have to "scooch" the knife down into your hand cuz it'll already be there when you pull it out and don't use the spider hole just flick it out with your wrist...... Or just get a pocket assisted knife.

[@cannonball666]

You failed to point out that carrying tip down also places the clip in a position that interferes much more with your fingers while on the scales while tip up keeps the clip free from your fingers. And thank you for pointing out that the difference between tip up and tip down speed is negligible for all those paranoid people who think millisecond deployment difference is going to save them in a knife fight. Knife fighting is horrible and can last longer than anticipated. It requires skill and a few milliseconds speed difference in initial deployment has very little to do with winning it.

[@reddsaxxmike2865]

And for those of us with very large hands, had every military mod to tip up

[@simonize251]

I never really change clip positions from factory.
Only takes 2 seconds to adapt if you’ve carried enough knives over the years.

[@neroknives1828]

simonize251 yea I don’t even have to think of a knife is tip up or tip down. I can just tell as soon as my hand grabs it in my pocket. Both are just as easy to open. It doesn’t matter to me.

[@runicknight8459]

Yeah the only knife I care if it’s tip up or tip down are autos

[@kaizen5023]

Agreed, I only double- checked which of my knives are tip up vs. tip down recently when I saw TH-camrs making jokes about it. I have a number of both and it isn't hard to switch technique when you switch knives.

[@MikeUman]

I see you retrieve tip up carry knives differently than I do. You place the webbing between your thumb and index finger on the back of the knife. I place that webbing on top of the pants pocket so my thumb is thrust deeper into the pocket. When I pull the knife out, the deploying method, be it stud or spydy hole, ends up right where my thumb is, allowing for a rapid deployment without having to cinch up on the handle. I also use lanyards on my tip ups to give me a little something extra to grab onto, if it is needed. Since I have a somewhat compromised right hand due to severe nerve damage, those lanyards can be a big help.
Excellent video, man. I like the way you explain things.

[@jojojaykay]

I’m happy how well received this video is. Every time I try to explain this to people I get FLAMED. I know jdavis also covered this years ago before all the controversy. Thanks for the articulate video. By and large I find tip down to be the best option for most knives if you’re trying to deploy a knife quickly.

[@prestonscott5367]

Dude, I’m really enjoying your channel, found it a couple days ago, and I’ve watched half your videos “sabenza” from your 34 minute one. Anyway... you’re a real honest guy, and you deserve a lot more attention and exposure. God bless

[@CedricAda]

I go solely from how the clip feels in hand as to whether I post it to the up or down position but with regards to larger knives it definitely seems that tip down keeps all the mechanisms within easy reach. Interesting vid as always!

[@neroknives1828]

Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors thank you. And I feel the same way. It’s impossible to say one is better then the other. It all just depends on the knife and hand size.

[@SuperSteelSteve]

Oh.... how convenient.
Commenting on his #1 pick....
I'll be great one day vinny! One day!
But seriously thank you so much for doing this. The first time i put a millie in my pocket I noticed how much a pain in the ass it would have been tip up.
My endura is tip down for the same reason.

[@neroknives1828]

SuperSteel Steve just found you comment after a alert popped up on my phone saying that someone else was politely telling me to go f*ck myself.

[@jimyocum9556]

I find when I pull my military my thumb is already on the hole,Same as the resilience witch can be switched.."tip up" became another TH-cam craze and everyone jumped on board repeating it across the internet.. thanks for not being another repeater it's a little refreshing to see someone who actually spends a little time using knives instead of the ( pretend and repeat) of the norm..

[@oceanwaves83]

👍

[@Jb429421]

I agree with this vid 100 percent......knife by knife decision. The point I want to make is I think more people ought to be in the habit of keeping in contact with the opening mechanism until the blade is locked open. In other words out of the habit of flicking the blade open. In any high adrenaline situation, or just having cold, or wet, or slippery hands could hamper the flick. A slightly dirty pivot, or a single piece of pocket debris could prevent the flick from being effective. With a little practice opening the blade while keeping contact becomes second nature, just as fast, marginally safer, and somehow very reassuring.
Of course I'm hoping for the "flipper" craze to ease and more new knife designs with studs, holes, etc. to return. :).

[@neroknives1828]

Jb429421 I use to be a frame lock flipper guy. But I’m long past that now. I definitely want to see new knives with washers, and no flippers. But more reliable, less maintenance. And just all around more reliable.

[@arbitraryalias9825]

I totally agree about the flipper fad, I find that its my least favorite opening technique, yet so many otherwise really nice knives seem to have adopted the flipper design. You can almost always open these knives via a pinch but some sort of thumb stud/hole would almost always be better IMO. I also think, for a lot of us, knives larger than 3 inches are unnecessary and perhaps undesirable. Thus many people will 100% prefer tip up, but if they ever had a military or some other "larger" folder they would run into that problem of having to crawl their hand up a few inches just to open it.

[@Outpost_76]

I love the Socom and Military, I wouldn't change the clip position on either even if there was an option to. Great explanation for the hardcore tip up guys to see and why it doesnt alway work.

[@michaelkraus4135]

GOOD TASTE ! My 2 favorites !

[@camorakidd_edc]

Switched my PM2 to tip down just today to try it out and I already like it better than tip up

[@neroknives1828]

Camora Kidd yea on the pm2. It’s hard to tell witch way is more ergonomic. I think it would just depend on hand size.

[@DanMar5858]

I’ve always carried my PM2’s tip down and now that’s how I carry my Para3’s. Everybody that sees them thinks it’s weird but when I started carrying Spydercos back in the early to mid 90’s many of their knives were drilled for RH Tip-Down only so that’s what I was used to. It’s not THAT difficult to deploy, I think people just like to complain. Hahaha!

[@williwyte]

That just blew my mind. You're absolutely right.

[@ScottieG59]

I fully agree with this. I would like to see a similar analysis with wave deployment. Personally, I find most of them slower, since they start between the thumb and index finger tips near the lanyard hole. I see so many demonstrate how fast the wave deployment is, but they start with the open knife held with their finger tips at the very end of the handle. The only wave knives I can properly deploy are karambit folders with a finger ring, waving forward. Anyway, it is a very bad day if I need my knife at lightning speed.

[@EMFSafetyZone]

Tip up carry guys are going to bash me for this comment, however, I find your presentation totally intelligent and I agree 100%. For using the spidey hole deployment, tip down is only obvious.

[@jamesconroy7030]

With a tip down knife You could clip it onto a piece of thin pipe, or tubing. wrap it tight with tape, or paracord. and now it's an edc spearhead.

[@conductorcammon]

Yeah but that ramp jimping on the PM2 scrapes my knuckles when I rummage through my pocket when it's tip down.

[@eachday9538]

Tip down carry is underrated in several applications, little knives that have potential to be attached to a key chain is another example where tip down can work better. By the way, the Cold Steel Hold Out 1, which was my carry today, is an extreme example of requiring you to "scoot down"!

[@daveeverett9341]

With practice, there are many more ways to open, and the real "point" is, are going to attack a cardboard box from that position, or defend against an edged attack? The answer to this will determine how folder is launched from pocket....

[@lionknives3]

That's why I am a tip down guy!

[@PowerMadHeadBanger]

You make 2 moves to deploy a tip down knife in the closed position to strike the opponents upper head. You make 3 moves to deploy a tip up folder in the closed position to strike the opponents upper head. People complete misunderstood the last tactical folding knives from Benchmade. People think that a knife cannot kill in the closed position but a knife can kill in the closed position as kubaton if you strike the head and the tip down makes it faster to deploy the knife in the closed position if you wanna strike the upper part of the head of the opponent. There is a lot of tactical folders that are meant to be used in the closed position as a kubaton the Benchmade SOCP 390, Microtech Socom Elite, Lapu Lapu Corto but people often do not understand the potential of the folder as a weapon in the closed position. But yeah you have to design a clip especifically for each folder. In the case of the Aileron tip up is better.

[@UltraMAGAandproudofit]

Who hurt you?

[@Tom-uj4uf]

Spyderco should really pay you for promoting the Military model. I never wanted it, I clicked on the video just from curiosity and now I feel like I really need the Military in my life :-DDD

[@adamjohnsonmusicvideos]

To be fair if there was actually a pocket clip for tip up, then your middle or index finger would have purchase on the end of the clip which aids to naturally choke upwards on the handle as you draw. I think both would be viable, but tip down works pretty well with that pendulum action you pointed out.

[@phillipcsandoval9094]

Great video bro. I've been carrying my Benchmade 910SBT Elishewitz Tanto G10 close to 15 years and it came "Tip down", which is the only option from factory. I've bought a few more from Benchmade and others, but the 910SBT keeps wanting to stay in my right pocket for some reason...I've never come close to any issue and it seems to get better with time, It's tighter and snappier. My Old school combo (Glock 19 gen2 - 25 years and keeps on going with my Benchmade 910SBT).
***Just bought the 531 Pardue, which it is tip and it weights less than 3 oz. Loving it so far.
By the way, I just became your sub:)
Thanks so much brother!

[@benrobinett3396]

Something about his hand moving in sync with the “scoot scoot scoot” really satisfied my soul

[@brucestarr4438]

When I pull my 5" folder from my pocket, my thumb is in front of the knife and pushes the pocket edge down. I don't have to take your extra step and rotate it. When it comes out, I have a full grip without any extra movement of it.

[@artby2wenty]

I have been cut by benchmades in tip down by reaching deep into my pocket. It does happen. Id rather walk the knife into my hand then cut my hand open. It would be nice if microtech just gave the option to swap it. If they did I would EDC the socom.

[@allenshaffer1150]

Fucking brilliant sir I never even thought about it like that but that’s a very good point

[@dude28405]

I obviously think most sypderco are easiest tip down to open. I think it’s a silly debate I think it’s a personal preference and what works best for you and I could be different from person-to-person a knife to knife.

[@willblair8998]

Never thought of that. Thank you. Maybe I WILL start carrying my Socom now.

[@jc2557]

Thanks for the reply, makes a lot of sense, well played, hopefully more on it in the future, keep up the great work.

[@ogenmatic]

I love logic. You present it well.

[@herohunter81]

It doesn’t matter. What matters is keeping the blade facing back. So it can’t open in your pocket. The Para 3 has options in this case. A lot of knives can’t do 4 different carries so you do what you gotta do. This whole tip up vs tip down thing isn’t a deployment issue, it’s a safety issue.

[@neroknives1828]

It's the detents job to make sure a knife doesn't open in your pocket, not the pockets. 10 years ago i would've agreed with you. But now to even find a 20 dollar knife that even has the slightest chance of opening in the pocket is hard to find.

[@vladimirkovacevic1656]

thats beautiful knife,i love it

[@Juidodin]

1:50 i pull my tip-up knife at the clip, slide it up, get perfect grip to open it

[@BricksAndSparrows]

We need a better terminology for this because a folder opens and closes… what do you think of top clips and bottom clips?

[@kaizen5023]

For my tip-up knives,
1) I thrust my thumb deeper into the pocket until the web of my hand stops on top of my pocket, then
2) lightly touch the clip with my fingers and draw the knife out.
3) 3a. - If it is a flipper, then I'm in easy position to flip it.
3.b - If it is a thumb stud, then it is usually a single little little scooch to reach the stud because my knives are usually 3.75 blade.

[@edrader]

I agree. depends on knife. tip down on PM2. tip up on sage 5

[@reddsaxxmike2865]

And then Spyderco creates a military 2 with choices

[@TheIronwil]

Doesn’t work that way for me. Maybe it’s because I’m used to tip-up carry, but it’s much more awkward for me to do a quick draw with the tip down. I usually wear jeans (not sure if that makes much of a difference), and I don’t wear tight jeans, so it’s pretty easy for me to get a deep grip to draw the knife with my fingers in place to deploy it. It might have been different if I’d learned on tip-down knives.

[@HatchBackLyfe]

people that complain about tip down or up dont even use their knives

[@devilsadvocate783]

This is the reason knives come this way! Us redknecks have ALWAYS carried our knives this way (all of our knives) for deployment reasons! Tip up is for people that only plan to open boxes and letters all day...

[@sixpooltube]

Brilliant explanation

[@BigRedEDC]

Excellent point! Thank you for sharing!

[@BigDave71]

No no no. If you carry tip up, all you have you have to do is hook the tip of your middle finger around the bottom of the knife on the outside of your pocket. And your thumb goes into the pocket. So it’s like your palming the the te knife from the outside of pants. Then you push the pocket knife out of your pocket and voila your hand is there to make contact. Suddenly it’s in you hand because you pushed it out. Then your thumb is exactly where it’s supposed to be. On thumb stud or thumb hole. And click it’s deployed. Easy peasy lemon 🍋 squeezy.

[@thiscanadianguysopinion7947]

I never really gave it much thought but I do like the tip down option now more than I did. Cool video

[@dannythorne7143]

Everyone has their own preference.do whatever makes it faster and easier for you to deploy your blade and be ready for action plain and simple.

[@joe_a_photo]

I like my PM2 tip down for this same reason

[@jamesstraub4981]

I totally agree. Completely depends on the knife. Nicely done.

[@bmein7el]

I know it it is a knife channel but can you pls tell me which wrist watch do you wear?
Thank you!
Best regards
from Austria

[@misterbaker9728]

Yeah I kinda laugh at pple that go on and on about tip up carry especially about this.. I really like this video huge thumbs up!! 👍 keep it up bro

[@neroknives1828]

Matt Baker thank you. And yea I really don’t understand where all the hate for tip down came from.

[@marrenmiller]

The safety issue with tip down opening in your pocket is not with cutting your hands, but cutting your leg. Try doing the same thing then walking around or squatting down (or rather don't).

[@Al-ds3sw]

I agree with most of your points but as far as the knife being open in your pocket while tip down Carry problem isn’t putting your hand in your pocket as much as the knife tip stabbing you in the leg maybe when you sit down or something along those lines just something I Felt I had to add to the video nice video some good points thanks

[@GingrBreadMan]

unless its a civivi elementum and your left handed... it cleaved my knuckles because the blade was open when I was digging into my pocket

[@zironemegeaz]

Thanks for the insight. Never subscribed to either way but now I know the purpose of tip down Thanks

[@suttonmatthew]

Although this video is old, it’s still an excellent explanation to the Spyderco design

[@christamu2]

I had this same issue with my Tatanka and switched the clip to tip down. Whenever the Military 2 comes out, I think we'll see a 4 way position clip.

[@count_of1310]

It's on a person to person basis, as well.

[@gabotrial]

I prefer tip up and ziptie mod, really fast and comfortable!

[@PsycheHED]

tip up for the zip tie's faster than any thumb.

[@itainteasy]

could you please make a video simply from the standpoint of what is safest in regards to it being in the pocket. The only enemy i plan to run into is myself.

[@selfprotection7349]

If the knife could go tip up, and you put a zip tie in the thumb hole, you can, upon choice, auto deploy and have it open at the same time as it clears the pocket.

[@IronButterknife]

Absolutely correct

[@mikezador]

What’s brand of your watch on this video?

[@motorcyclemark2889]

Thanks !

[@Mridgwell]

Does this technique work the same with Jean shorts ?

[@thomaslanders1162]

Never heard that before but makes sense.. Spyderco loves drilling holes for clips, lanyard tubes and choils.. They would never not drill for tip up unless there was a good reason.. I'm in the city and carry loose in pocket so I don't advertise but good info..

[@DEATHMETALRUST]

The Kershaw Leek is able to switch tip up or tip down. I feel its a good example because its a small knife and that knife is weird as hell tip up.

[@robdeskrd]

You all don't know why tip up is useful, it's because of Emerson knives......

[@daveglarner2138]

I've noticed a few times in life that when putting a clip in a tip-down position on a frame lock, the clip actually protects the lockbar from accidental tension as you're deploying it. Eh...I'm not sure if I just said that right.

[@James-ke5sx]

A few years ago I decided to upgrade my one pocket knife collection. After watching so many videos I decide to go with a Spyderco paramilitary 2 a Benchmade Osborne 940 a whole bunch other knives over a few years. Nice knives but in the end I bought a buck 110 and that was a game changer for me. I'm old school. BTW my PH 2 did open and stab me in my leg and I haven't put that knife in my pocket since. I was wearing jogging pants and laying on my side so the big hole in the knife blade open the blade and I just got a little stab from the tip. In any case they are collectors items for me because I can't afford that again and I would cry if I lost or damaged it

[@coreyouellette3199]

Im not even too much of a knife guy but I am a big fan of your videos!

[@rayrock23]

I dont get what the lanyard hole is for then

[@ascendotuum9586]

Fuck spyderco! Way better all purpose knife brands out there. A "one" knife that can be used for daily tasks and defense, should be your number one priority anyway.

[@paddyspotatopeelers2154]

Great explanation appreciated mate. Its true learn something every day. Its exciting. Atb paddy 👍😄☘️

[@WarGrrl3]

People, there are enough folders out there that if you don't like tip up only or the tip down only, PICK A DIFFERENT KNIFE and stop all your complaining. I laugh my butt off at the tons of peo cryin over 'why don't they offer this knife in tip ______' . I guarentee there will be an almost exact iteration of your desired knife in the form you want.

[@Iamthedudeman00]

Dude I disagree with your video this time, I think you are overly complicating this reason, I mean why did they only make the knife right hand carry? I think they made this knife this way because it is meant to be carried in Mollie belt. Also the military came out before they become obsessed with the four way clips, and now it is selling too well for them to just change to four way clips, but I am sure they are working on it and release military 2 when they think the sell is saturated.

[@neroknives1828]

DOITNOW00 idk man. The military is at least 15 years old. The market should be saturated.

[@devonmacdonald7807]

both those knives have a lanyard hole. why even add the lanyard to a tip down knife, the lanyard would b buried in ur pocket

[@4NdR3_K]

Tip down for a large knife and tip up for a small one.

[@CaptDavesSportfishing]

safety over skootch! until you get really cut.

[@GravityRoller]

Tip down Milary video ...
THANK YOU.
Maybe, just maybe, Sal Glesser designed the knife this way for a reason ... You touched on some valid points. Additionally a couple decades ago "the Spydie-Drop" (Sal, Michael Janich, etc.) pocket draw can only be accomplished in tip-down configuration. Generally tip-up configuration became popularized with flippers, in my mind, because of finger indexing (and for those that were developmentally challenged opening a knife - Jim Skelton comes to mind Haha - and those that like to play with there tools/toys).
Good video - props to ya !

[@88Sigsauer]

Nice video

[@jimmiegallen]

I do not use my thumb to open my pm2 i use my middle finger and flick it so tip up actually works very well

[@shannonyoung887]

Simply not the case for me - I converted my KW/204P Mili to tip up and like it MUCH better now. Also, I carry/use a Socom Delta so also tip up.

[@hansdevreught5459]

Tip down make sense if you carry in your front pocket, tip up make sense in your back pocket. Speed? No real difference with a good technique.

[@brandonwest2874]

There are many other knives that are close to the same size & still give you the option of tip up or down. You could put a zip tie on it & wave it out but they don't give you the option. It should have tip up option as well. Then I'd get one. May get one any ways. 🤔

[@Rompastompa71]

Beautiful Knife.That Jade is extremely rare.

[@rajuanp]

Great vid. How is the detent in the socom? Mine is a 2011 and it is weak. Thanks

[@marrenmiller]

They made a tip-up socom, it was called the socom Delta. For a number of reasons (carry included) it is inferior to the elite.

[@tacticalcenter8658]

they need to make it tip up instead. i love my military except for that clip. i keep it either in my left pocket or back right pocket.
damn knife stabbed my leg in the right pocket the way it is. you say it hasn't opened in anyone's pocket but its happened to me and many others.

[@marrenmiller]

Yeah this is more common than he thinks it is

[@tacticalcenter8658]

@@marrenmiller agree. But it's his point of view since it hasn't happened to him,yet.

[@leeyates290]

Tip down for Large knives

[@gentleman_of_the_pen]

I carry most of my knives tip down which I prefer, but I feel in the minority every time I watch a knife review, tip up being often nicknamed "right side up".

[@jackalopeslim8478]

Tip down is generally easier to deploy with gloves.

[@jc2557]

Hi Nero, just watched your ZT warrenty video, I thought you were very fair, and was interested to hear how it turned out, but now vanished, not sure what happened there, great video,thanks

[@neroknives1828]

Yea I put it out. Then had someone tell me to wait just so zt can’t catch wind of it, and give special treatment.

[@neroknives1828]

jc2557 if i kept that video posted. Zt could just wait for that knife to come in. And make sure they fixed it.

[@nebulamask81]

Lol the do not try this at home warning.

[@neroknives1828]

DontBotherNone lol. I figured it was about time for one of them.

[@michaelchristy4982]

I agree with everything in this video 100%, except that I carry my Military’s in my back right pocket.

[@lylesmith5079]

I too have to carry a self defense knife in my back right pocket because I always have a gun and holster at a position that prevents a draw from the right front pocket.

[@chef_nick3022]

Two words... Zip Ties

[@SuperBadbri]

your grabbing the knife not right with tip up hand goes to the front more and you can get more knife in hand..to each its own.

[@cavtj1]

I gotta ask you man, do you drink a lot of coffee? Thanks for your thoughts on the Military and the Socom. Makes sense!

[@neroknives1828]

cavtj1 I remember shooting this video after getting back from the gym. So yea 500mg of caffeine in pre workout ;)

[@drengskap]

Is that an open knife in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me? ;-)

[@farmerwayne1404]

Tip up imop is much more secure and faster. If your in a wrestling match, grabbing that knife with two little fingers is not enough. Tip up, slide your thumb infront of the knife as far as you can and you'll get a solid grip, ready to deploy in that tussle. It will be in a full had grip. Your letting the end of the knife stop at your thumb webbing. Try it you'll like it!