Call No Man "Father"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- Why do we call priests "Father" if Jesus Christ says to call no man "Father?"
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they are making idols of the words themselves. it blinds them to their actual meaning, which most often you need the tradition of the Church to understand.
Yes. Classic protestant self proclaimed pastors.
Peak pharisee behaviour.
Yes. They make an idol of Holy Scripture, which they interpret individually and often erroneously, and make Jesus into a book, all the while denying the true Church which gave us the Bible and interprets its meaning. 🙏🏻👍🏻☦️
At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. - Matthew 11:25
One of the many reasons i will not accept the protestant "clergy" claiming being Christian.
Pharisees see Christ casting
out demons and healing and still call him out because it was Saturday is the same thing yet these people somehow miss it entirely.
There's only one father. We call our orthodox priests fathers because they reflect God's fatherhood to us. All fathers and dads are reflecting God's fatherhood. All teachers are supposed to only teach God's message the ultimate teacher and source of good knowledge. Bless me father Tryphon!
Thank you
As a Protestant I have often wondered about that verse. Every time I bring up Orthodoxy this is verse is brought up and I am told the Orthodox are in error here but this short message has me wondering if we are not in error ourselves...
Attend a Divine Liturgy.....taste and see!
Well, here is my two cents.
My copy and paste:
That is copied and pasted in every comment section, sometimes without commentary, by Evangelicals who do not rightly interpret Holy Scripture.
That very literalist reading of Matthew 23:9 is dispelled by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 4:14-17, him calling himself a father of his spiritual children, especially St. Timothy, and saying there are other fathers.
"Paul’s Paternal Care
14 I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. 15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you, imitate me. 17 For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church." (NKJV / OSB NT)
Christ referred in the passage Matthew 23:1-36 to those who *lord* titles over others as the Pharisees did often. It was not just an admonishment against calling a man father, but teachers and rabbis as well (doctors too), which I have never seen Evangelicals object to hardly. It seems to be a double standard as most are anti-Roman Catholic which sadly they lump us in.
The title 'Father' our Presbyters use is not lording a title but it is a spiritual truth as they *are* the fathers of spiritual children just like St. Paul was over his flock. And it can be gathered that indeed St. Timothy and others called St. Paul 'father' as it would have been only respectful, him being their spiritual father to help them grow in the Faith. And that's where we get it from. It is from the very earliest of the Church.
Also, Christ refers in many places to fathers both biological and spiritual (the Old Covenant Patriarchs and Forefathers). Christ does not say when He refers to them as fathers not to call them such as they are *legitimate* fathers of children. It isn't just a haughty title being put on them. They do not lord titles over others as this vocation, fatherhood, is a reality both to biological fathers and spiritual fathers.
If you like to understand this passage in the Holy Scriptures better, this video might help you: th-cam.com/video/j4F-xow3Vzg/w-d-xo.html
May God bless you. ☦
If the liturgy alone won't convince you, look up "jay dyer protestant" or "kyle protestant" and they will have some good things to say about Orthodox theology that better explains the more precise stuff in great depth
@@SILLY_BILLY_777 Orthodox Shahada has a great video on it too contrasting it to the Liturgies of the Old Covenant temple.
@@LadyMaria I think I saw that one, the continuity is undeniable
Call no one on Earth Father or Teacher.
Favorite verse of Freemasonic riff Raff.
Shame and dishonor be upon them
Now and forevermore, Amen.☦️
Слава Теве Вожи ☦️ Амин
I went to a fundamental protestant, bible only college If you called a professor who had a Dr degree as Mr. and not Dr, you'd get a powerful rebuke. Funny huh??
Protestants in their myriad of sects and denominations are frequently guilty of being blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel.
I literally googled this earlier and thought about emailing my priest about it… what are the chances?
The sad thing is that while Protestants believe in Sola Scriptura, they miss the biblical basis for why the church has believed and practiced using these titles. Of course, the Protestant can just invoke their right to disagree with the churches understanding of the Scriptures which is frustrating but is a good reminder to be humble and pray for our Protestant friends.
Also the title Father refers to clergy, since upon ordination, all people become their spiritual children. The church’s aim was, to protect the clergy himself from temptation, since all people are their children, it’s unthinkable to be tempted with any unholy thoughts. Prime example; priests are not allowed to get remarried after their Khouria or pryapatera or matoushka passes away.. because the priest cannot turn off his priesthood to start looking for a wife among his children.. hope this makes sense!
Bless Father! Thank you for your teachings.
Father, Teacher, I love you forever.
His is the commonwealth, power, and glory, now and ever unto ages of ages amen. ☦️☦️☦️
This is a valuable lesson and makes me think of Acts 15
Thank you Father☦️
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Perfectly stated and explained…Father. Christ strengthen you.
I grew up Protestant, even I understood this. 😂 Good word, Father :p
Great to see you teaching dear Abbott Tryphon, may God grant you many years
Thank you Father indeed.
Don't forget the commandment to love thy father and mother.
Thank you Father Tryphon … Perfectly said ☦️🙏🏻❤️
I’m having a difficult time with this subject. When Christ called Abraham father, he was using it to denote an ancestral lineage. Not a metaphorical title. It seems to me that the typical orthodox counter argument is based on a word concept fallacy. Any help in understanding or harmonizing this would be helpful.
I will always call those who walk with me in Christ brothers and sisters.
The shepherds of the sheep will be called Father as they are fathers of spiritual children in the way of St. Paul to his spiritual children, namely St. Timothy. As well, in a female monastery, an elderess nun who is shepherding will be called Mother.
In the Church, we are all equal in dignity, hence, "...no Jew or Greek, male or female, all are one in Christ Jesus...", though we have different roles we are called to. Some men are clergy / spiritual fathers, some women are spiritual mothers, some women are nuns, some men are monks, laymen, laywomen, and have a calling in the Church besides that as well.
Calling a shepherd of the sheep 'brother' shows no humility, as he is the spiritual father of the flock. Everyone in the Church of Christ (the Orthodox Church) answers to someone, and to Christ. There is no room for pride in position.
@@LadyMaria brother and sister assumes complete equality with all men and women under Christ.
Maybe it is okay to call a man father in Christ... But when there is very specifically *the* Father in Christ, it is a hard thing to do, especially when many put a capital F on father in all instances, which I find strange and only deserving of the Father in heaven.
I know Jesus called others brothers, sisters and even mothers, but no man was ever called father to Jesus, except God the Father.
And I see any man with Christ a part of His church, not just the orthodox denomination. These men are everywhere.
@@blissseeker4719 The Orthodox Church isn't a denomination, as she existed well before any came to be, since the first century.
Shepherds of the flocks are spiritual fathers of their spiritual children. It's that simple. When a noun is proper to a specific person as an identifier, we capitalize the word. But English is not the language for all nor of the Holy Scriptures. It isn't an issue.
We also don't go around calling each other sister/brother so and so. That's a Protestant thing. Usually sister/brother is for monastics.
Christ is God, we are not God. So the comparison is moot.
Study more about Orthodoxy to see why do what we do for 2,000 years.
@@LadyMaria maybe I will one day. For now I bam content in my faith borne of grace, faith and love of Son, Father and Holy Spirit.
For now I am content learning from Christian men off all churches as I see fit. For now I am content that men of Christ are saved outside of the orthodox denomination ye cling to, for the church of Christ exists outside of your walls of men.
@@blissseeker4719 Pride and stubbornness won't get you far. May you one day let your heart be softened and yearn to go deeper into God instead of the surface level where "I" matters.
Orthodoxy is not a denomination but the Theanthropic (God-man) reality where man meets God through Christ who is both man fully and God fully and receives infusion of God's grace in true relationship. The original Faith of Christ is waiting for you. Come home. ☦︎
When one's sect is no more than a book club that is when one has walls, walls of one's own making. The Church has no walls, only freedom in Christ God.
I'm departing from this thread now. Hopefully you will yearn to go deeper into Christ. May God bless you. ☦︎
It's so disappointing seeing Christians fighting each other.
Algorithm boost.
Is it so wrong to be called brother? Are we not all brothers (and sisters) in Christ? To demand to be called Father (or anything else for that matter) seems prideful to me. What do a man's words to you matter if his heart is in Christ? It is good to love Orthodoxy, but is it not also good to love all who love Christ, or even God the Father, as best they can?
My copy and paste:
That is copied and pasted in every comment section, sometimes without commentary, by Evangelicals who do not rightly interpret Holy Scripture.
That very literalist reading of Matthew 23:9 is dispelled by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 4:14-17, him calling himself a father of his spiritual children, especially St. Timothy, and saying there are other fathers.
"Paul’s Paternal Care
14 I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. 15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you, imitate me. 17 For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church." (NKJV / OSB NT)
Christ referred in the passage Matthew 23:1-36 to those who *lord* titles over others as the Pharisees did often. It was not just an admonishment against calling a man father, but teachers and rabbis as well (doctors too), which I have never seen Evangelicals object to hardly. It seems to be a double standard as most are anti-Roman Catholic which sadly they lump us in.
The title 'Father' our Presbyters use is not lording a title but it is a spiritual truth as they *are* the fathers of spiritual children just like St. Paul was over his flock. And it can be gathered that indeed St. Timothy and others called St. Paul 'father' as it would have been only respectful, him being their spiritual father to help them grow in the Faith. And that's where we get it from. It is from the very earliest of the Church.
Also, Christ refers in many places to fathers both biological and spiritual (the Old Covenant Patriarchs and Forefathers). Christ does not say when He refers to them as fathers not to call them such as they are *legitimate* fathers of children. It isn't just a haughty title being put on them. They do not lord titles over others as this vocation, fatherhood, is a reality both to biological fathers and spiritual fathers.
If you like to understand this passage in the Holy Scriptures better, this video might help you: th-cam.com/video/j4F-xow3Vzg/w-d-xo.html
May God bless you. ☦
@@LadyMaria I see that you have not read nor understood what I have written, or perhaps you did not carefully watch the video. There is division being drawn here, and I seek to heal that division (Mark 3:25, 28-29). Thank you for taking the time to copy and paste. May God bless you, Jesus dwell within you, and Peace be upon you.
@@bradleyhenderson1198 It helps to copy and paste something I took awhile to write myself than having to do it over and over again for people who can't understand this. That you don't like it and had to be passive aggressive is unfortunate.
But, it absolutely pertained to your issue, which you seem not to understand.
There is no division if you actually take time to understand shepherd and sheep. The verses, which you didn't take time to copy and paste, have nothing to do with this.
@@LadyMaria Still you have not understood. What you copy and pasted was nothing other than what Abbot Tryphon stated in his video. It is well known. The issue is not the calling of one man Father or not, though it could be as the Apostle implies if one does not know who is his Father in Heaven. No, indeed, the issue is Abbot Tryphon being bothered by not being called Father, by singling out Protestants, who, even though they may differ in small ways, are still a part of the body of Christ. This is pride causing beams to be missed while motes are chased. It does not matter what a man is called. If I call him Dog Tryphon or Sinner Tryphon, he is still who he is and has the same relationship with God he had before. It shouldn't bother him nor you, for your wrestling is with God not with man. Do not chase the history and the written word and forget the spirit; do not divide the body of Christ. As I said, and say again, it is good to love Orthodoxy, but it is also good to love brothers in Christ.
@@bradleyhenderson1198 What the Abbot said needed repeating as you don't get it.
We don't agree with the innovative Ecclesiology of the Protestants. We haven't changed to accommodate Protestant beliefs which is borne of protest from a group that was first protestant (Rome). It would be rather selfish to ask us to change what has been believed since the first century, a truth. In Holy Orthodoxy, entering ties together into Christ.
If we don't share one Faith and Eucharistic Communion, we can't all be in the Body of Christ as there can be no contradiction in Faith and there must be Eucharistic Communion, which is Christ Himself. We can't change beliefs to suit those who place themselves outside of the Church of Christ, knowingly or unknowingly. To try to say we have to conform to a rather new idea of Ecclesiology would be to abandon our Faith. We will not do that, for to do so world be to abandon God.
This is an Orthodox channel, after all.
Protestants differ in very big ways from traditional Christianity (as noted above in this comment) as does their mother, Rome.
What is prideful here is not humbling oneself to respect those shepherds of the sheep of the Church. Everyone in the [Orthodox] Church answers to someone, and first Christ. So, humility is part of it, that's part of why these affectionate titles are used. It's a family. We don't call family "dogs". That's just unacceptable.
We can love others without lying to them about being in communion. To lie to them that we're all one, is not love, it's deceit. And deceit leads to hell.
One more reply and then I conclude.